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Controller Comparison - PlayStation 3 vs. Wii
ZiakII writes "Engadet has an article comparing the PS3 Controller to the Wii's Controller. From the article: 'The motion control, however, was another story entirely. Whereas the Wiimote seemed to produce different experiences in different games and scenarios, the only title being shown with motion on the PS3 produced one experience: laggy control.'"
I guess this is why some companies go overboard with the whole patenting thing. Nintendo tries something risky, and somewhat innovative, and its competition tries to copy it as soon as it can. Kinda sad really.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
Multiple experiences with a controller after reviewing multiple games.....
one experience with a controller after reviewing one game......
It's this kind of insightful reporting that keeps me coming back.....
With all those gesturing Nintendo players are doing with their right arm & the motion sensing controllers. It's going to look kinda suspicious on a gamer if their right arm is much more buff than their left.
Of course, I think what's going to happen are alot of out of shaped gamers will just get tired too easily and will return to the GameCube. We know they had to remove using motion for regular attacks from Zelda because gamers got to tired.
But we also know the PS3 advance graphics will be hard to program for, and their motion sensing isn't as robust as the Wii. So from a development standpoint, developing for the PS2 makes most sense. Everyone has it already, and it's getting dirt cheap. Whoever wins the HD format war, jsut buy a stand alone player.
That's a PS3 controller? Looks just like a PS1 controller to me.
Thanks for the great design, Sony.
The fact that there is only one game that utilizes the motion control and the fact that Warhawk's development team only had a few weeks to put it into the game is very telling that this was a last minute addition to the console. If there's anyone out there that thinks that Sony isn't trying to copy the Wii they are in denial. I just hope that Sony's cheap rip-off doesn't cause people to overlook the Wii because they think it will be bad as well.
read this link: http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3blog.html?topic_id=24 600407
if anything, Sony and Nintendo both ripped off of a 20 year old Atari controller...
It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.
This one goes to 11.
and by normal, of course, you mean mundane.
I won't be totally satisfied until the controller can sense all my body gestures -- including
WII's not perfect; but there's a reason fantasy writers settled on magic wands for wimpy wizards -- it's a good pointing interface; and a flick of a wand is about as expressive and simple a UI tool you can make. Too bad I'm so weak from all these years with a convential controller that WII will feel more like a broadsword than a wand - but it's getting there.
Harry Potter's Magic Wand will be the UI of the metaverse once technology catches up.
My first disappointment with this controller is lack of a rumble feature, but following swiftly on its heels is disappointment in the fact that they didn't take the opportunity to move the damn analog controllers into a more ergonomically friendly location.
Every PS fanboy states that the dual-shock is the best controller out there, but when it comes to analog stick placement, it's only because it's what they're used to. Crook your thumbs into the shape necessary to work with the dualshock sticks. Then move them around a little. You'll feel a little fatigue (maybe not much, if you've played a lot with the controller). Then move your thumbs up a little, into the place where the gamecube and xbox controllers have the analog sticks. Move them around again. You'll likely feel less fatigue. That's because your thumbs are in a more relaxed place there, not having to exert any effort to hold it.
It's no surprise that 2 different companies placed the sticks higher up than the dualshock after 2 completely separate bouts of ergonomic research. The thumbs in the dualshock position are already flexing to keep that position. Your most natural position to rest your thumb is on your index finger. If you rest your thumbs on your ring finger, you'll feel the muscles pull because they need to to reach that non-natural state. It's the same state they're in when using the dualshock. You have to exert energy just to keep them at a rest state with those sticks.
The worst part of the design is that it's an example of lazy, "that's the way it's supposed to be" design. It's like the classic story (in software development circles) of the woman who always cut the ends off of a roast before cooking it. When her husband asked why, she said, "that's the way my mom did it; that's the way you're supposed to do it." Later, she asked her mom why she cut the ends off, and her mom told her "because my pan was too small to hold the whole roast." That's the same thing with the design of the dualshock. Those sticks aren't there because of exhaustive ergonomic studies. They're there because they're an afterthought. They were added to the original PS1 controller well after the system's original release, and they were put in the only place they fit. No one wanted to change the rest of the controller around (which is, by the way, a fine controller if you don't use the analog sticks). After they caught on, no one wanted to go back and move them around, because controllers are such an iconic part of console branding.
So that's why I'm disappointed. They had a chance to fix a bad design. It was even more important that they do so today, since most games nowadays use the analog sticks instead of the d-pad. But they didn't, and that's just sad. So now the more frequently used controls are in a harder to reach place, but hey, you can hit that d-pad to change weapons or select from a menu just fine. Oh, and now you can tilt the thing, too....
Sony's Movement-Sensing Controller Patent. Stolen from Nintendo, or making use of the patent at an opportune time?
what about the BS net for, I beleive the original Famicom in Japan. (not Bull Sh*t) wasn't that out even before the seganet?
I applaud Nintendo for making one - but it's hardly incredible to think that fantasy-gamers might want to wave a wand like Wizards have for centuries.
The Wii's control scheme has a significant advantage over that of its rivals' with regard to ergonomics. Holding the Wii-mote and the nunchaku device in the opposing hand (doesn't seem to make a difference if you're a righty or a lefty, either) at an adequate distance can reduce the strain on the wrists, elbows, and shoulders of the player's arms, allowing for a much more relaxed, more natural positioning of limbs. The human hands weren't meant to be held so close together for extended periods of time, which is why gaming with a keyboard and mouse has always been more comfortable (though not completely) than gaming with just the keyboard or with a controller.
And I'm guessing many of the functions with the Wii-mote and the nunchaku won't have to be motion-centric per se, at least not on the level of play that is shown in demonstrations--I think this is more of a basic human reaction amidst adaptation to the control scheme. i.e. The brain thinks, "Hey, I'm moving!" and the body gradually reacts more naturally to the movement on the screen and its interface through the controller. For many veterans (and some newcomers), I'm sure great sweeping movements in repetition won't be necessary, which would further reinforce its ergonomic benefits.
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The E3 demo was laggy, but one of the Penny Arcade guys got to play the game and he said there was no lag whatsoever. The reason that they probably left the rumble out (if they did... I read someone say that, didn't read it anywhere) was because a small company said they had the rights to the patent and Sony probably didn't want to pay them.
-SaNo
All I can say is that it's sad that the Katamari series is dead (for now at least). That's probably the one game where I can really see using the PS3's tilt-controller. Well, that and Monkey Ball.
This guy's the limit!
They should've taken a page from the razor maker's book: add more blade^Wbuttons.
:)
Of course, once you got to the point where they were attaching a keyboard to it...
Exactly how long do you think it will be until we find pictures off women inventing whole new games with it?
Men may be perverts but at least we don't use gaming hardware in ways it was never intended. Then again have looking at the PS3 controller... what exactly are those rounded pointy bits supposed to be for?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I know SOMEONE is going to come up with some pretty amazing implementation of something like this. At least some gestures...
slight flick to the left, go back a page - slight flick to the right, forward a page... forward and you "zoom in" one level of heirarchy, back and you zoom back out one level? Probably someone can think of even better ways.
This space available.
...for spelling nunchaku correctly. You have made me happy again.
Well, I tried both Wii and PS3/Warhawk at E3, and while I was predisposed to like the Wii and skeptical of Sony's 'last minute' addition, I was disappointed with the Wii and impressed with the PS3 controller.
First off, I really like the PS2/Dual-Analog style controller, so that wasn't going to be a problem for me. I don't like the non-symmetrical layout of the Gamecube and I hated the first-party XBox controllers. The 360 controller is perhaps the best, with the 'bumpers' instead of the white/black buttons that are in different places on different controllers, and the triggers that actually allow for varying degrees of input (which is hard to get with Sony's buttons).
My friends and I were all excited to swordfight with the Wii controller. Problem was, it didn't actually let you control the sword in 3D space, it only let you determine when to swing. Not to say that the controller couldn't do it right, but it hasn't yet. Also, I really didn't like using the Wii controller for the FPS sections of the game, although I was told that Metroid worked much better.
The Wii controller was very sensitive and responsive, but the games just weren't using it to its potential yet. I'm hoping that if they're just afraid 'real' 3D control is too complicated, they'll have some 'advanced'/'arcade' options in there like you often see on console flight simulators. The best game I played in Nintendo's booth was the driving game, which could have been done just as well on PS3, and would have looked better. (Note that they said that 'something came up' and kicked everyone out of the booth before I got to try Zelda, Mario, or Metroid -- probably Paris Hilton showed up or something...)
Meanwhile, after seeing what appeared to be a laggy demo at the press conference, I was pleasantly surprised by how well Warhawk worked. I'm sorry, but anyone who says it's laggy was probably wearing their Nintendo-colored glasses. I found it very easy and natural to pilot my Warhawk, which is very promising given that they had apparently only added this control mode a few weeks before E3! Meanwhile, Nintendo's betting the whole farm on this gimmick, and they still don't have it down.
As a side note, we put in the original Warhawk when we got back, and we were amazed at how craptacular it looked. It must have been displaying like 100 polygons on screen! And at the time we thought it was awesome -- though even then we weren't fooled by the fmv...
Nobody is claiming that Nintendo invented motion sensing controllers. But Sony clearly got the idea to introduce it into their console controllers at this time from Nintendo. If anyone claims it's just a coincidence, he's nothing but a Sony fanboy.
If Katamari is dead, then it'll be easier to sell Katamari clones. Nature abhors a vacuum; when Konami stopped producing Dance Dance Revolution, Roxor stepped in with In The Groove.
Cellphones have one way of entering in text and navigation, or maybe you're lucky and have a Blackberry with a full keyboard, but niether has a mouse-like pointing device.
Some phones have PDA features including pen input (which inspired the DS's touch screen). That's mouse-like enough, right?
The PS3 controller has 6 degrees of freedom.
That is to say, it can sense translation in the x/y/z dimensions (3 translational axes) and it can sense rotation as roll/pitch/yaw (3 rotational axes).
Using purely accelerometers, it would be impossible to accurately detect the rotational axes. The gravity vector would be necessary to determine the rotation of the device. You can break any algorithm relying on an accelerometer to detect the gravity vector by subjecting the controller to translational accelerations - these would interfere with extracting the gravity vector from sensor data, even if you use multiple accelerometers.
Imagine that the sensor knows gravity points downward at 9.81 m/s^2. Now start moving it to the left. You have one vector pointing down, and one vector pointing left. You can assume that the one pointing down is gravity, but what if the controller is tilted? How far is it tilted? You'd have to know which way gravity is pointing in order to subtract the gravity vector.
With a gyroscope, however, you can calibrate the controller when it is obviously only under the influence of gravity. Then, you can use the gyro to decouple the effect of gravity from other accelerations; the gyro lets you know which way gravity is pointing, and some simple vector subtraction leaves you with the translational data.
:(){
The PS3 is only TILT sensitive. All of the 'movement' that makes the Wii attractive to the people who like it (the tennis game, for example), is NOT POSSIBLE with the PS3. It's NOT motion sensitive, and I wish the media would quit misreporting it. Engadget should be highlighting this difference and they aren't. They way they present the article, it seems they don't even understand the difference themselves.
that nintendo has placed both analog sticks in the center for their Wii controller for non-motion-sensor games. It looks like the bastard offspring of an overweight SNES controller and the DualShock.
It will be great for the vintage games with the d-pad in the comfy spot, but they've sure made it ugly for the 3D platformers we're used to.
IMHO symbols are much easier to remember than letters. I don't own a PS2 and yet I will forever remember that Triangle is Up etc. Its much easier to remember symbols than letters and systems which just use A,B,C,D are IMHO making it harder on their users.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
With all this talk of the Wii's motion sensing controller it looks like people have neglected the fact that the console will also have a conventional control pad.
And what's interesting is how closely that control pad mirrors the layout of the Playstation controller, except that it seems to be a bit more compact and certainly faithful to the look of the Wii.
One thing I've noticed about the wand is how it seems to be a bit small and some of those buttons are placed so far back on the handle that they certainly can't be easily accessed by one hand but have the chance of being pressed accidentally by the palm. Regardless, I predict the majority of Wii's games will use this controller, not the wand.
Preface: I'm not sure if you're actually trying to establish a functional method, or just trying to prove a point. I'm going to assume for the purposes of this comment that you intend on your method being functional.
First, if I read your statements correctly, your setup requires six accelerometers, compared to one accel/one gyro, and unless one gyro costs the same as five accels, the accel/gyro combo (also known as an Inertial Measurement Unit, or IMU) will be less expensive.
Second, unless the accels are all placed far enough apart, the noise floor for the sensors is going to prevent you from having accuracy that even approaches gyros. IIRC, gyros are supposed to be highly accurate devices, with a small caveat that they have some drift, but the drift is very slow and can be corrected when the device is stable.
Third, if you tilt the controller so that gravity doesn't conveniently line up along any of the axes, and you start shaking it up and down while moving it from side to side and rotating it, I'm not so sure you could extract enough information from the sensors to derive the direction of gravity at any point in time. You might be able to, but that would take some mighty impressive filtering, as opposed to how much cleaner the data coming from the IMU will be.
So component cost, component count, and design simplicity all seem to favor an IMU.
:(){
I'm not sure Katamari is dead - the creator was musing about the Wii, maybe he might change his mind and do a Wii version. He could call it Wii Wii Katamari, or maybe Katamari Wii Wuv U ...
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Talking about the same "Sony" that endorses "Invasion of Privacy" which is against Constitutional Freedoms?! Let's talk about the DRM Rootkit..........
I don't know which game the parent was referring to, but the Wii-mote aiming in Zelda felt very imprecise and unpleasant to use; I don't know what was going on with that because an earlier demo of Metroid felt very good; not quite as precise as a mouse, but definitely a huge step up from analog sticks, and in general the Wii-mote's DPD is surprisingly accurate and solid-seeming. There may have been some sort of ambient light problem with the setup, although you'd think that Nintendo would have arranged it to be perfect for E3, or perhaps the Wii features in Zelda weren't given enough development.
I predict that the successor to the Wii will support a "best-of" selection of PSX/PS2 games on its Virtual Console.