I just thought bit different:-) -- see, Darwin has a very big portion of code from a FreeBSD and now Darwin went on iPhone. Obviously, jails are inherited from either FreeBSD or similar, though I am not sure (citation needed). Meaning... is these jails in iPhone has been so screwed up by Apple that can be easily broken, or it is just FreeBSD's code for jails that sucks?
He isn't out-of-date. I have to suffer Java 1.6 at my college. The VM is still slow to start, and the GUI libraries still suck.
Nah, not perfect though, but let's don't hyperbolize it either: it does not sucks really anymore. Personally I write a lot of Swing stuff and I would not say it that sucks as before Java 1.4 times. At least now 1.6 I'd say much better than even GTK or QT. Why?
Because:
performance is same as QT or GTK. No, sorry. Performance sometimes better e.g. when you have a really huge amount of records and put it into table -- in that case I wish GTK performed better and GTK-based wxWindows did not crash.
While Swing looks like a cockpit of 747, yet it is over-flexible and thus very powerful. Yes, it is scary to new comers, but once you figured out, you have to say it is really cool, extendable and portable.
To write these kind of GUIs, including Quake-2 port in QT or GTK would take much more time for you. Not saying it is impossible. I am saying about time/cost/quality/competence/final-result-asap things.
I love JNLP concept and it works rock stable on controlled or semi-controlled networks, once done properly. JNLP (Java Web Start) is way better for internal software and enterprises than Ajax thing or equivalent GTK/QT stuff, since I've done all of this and can compare what was the best to achieve with average-skilled programmers, cheapest and fastest to develop-and-deploy. And you must know that either.:-)
Additionally, you can use your own look-and-feel (including GTK's) etc. Of course, it has its side effects: you have to emulate specific platform etc. SWT does it natively, but it suffers from portability a lot, plus some parts are written in plain Java. Since API of various platforms changes and sometimes very drastically (like Apple is gonna drop Carbon one day), SWT renders to be a fool trap that always trying to catch up current status, but actually performs great only on Windows.
Add to the story really great try of NetBeans team to bring you GUI visual editor and you have to agree that at least you can create GUI stuff literally in front of your boss's eyes. I agree, Swing not the best yet, but also not that horrible as before anymore either. That's why we can commit our patches to Java 7!:-)
Oracle will discard the entire hardware division (of Sun), not just the processor departments.
This is called simply a bullshit. And that's why:
Oracle plans to grow the Sun hardware business after the closing, protecting Sun customersâ(TM) investments and ensuring the long-term viability of Sun products. Oracle also intends to focus the server and storage businesses on our common enterprise customers, where we believe we bring competitive advantage, relationships, and a track record of helping to reduce costs and complexity. Key to this strategy will be our plans to develop software-optimized hardware that integrates all of the enterprise components: hardware, database, middleware, and applications. After the closing, Oracle plans to be the only company that can engineer an integrated system where all the pieces fit and work together so customers do not have to do it themselves. Our customers benefit as their systems integration costs go down while system performance, reliability and security go up.
Is it like you want to do rollbacks/snapshots on volumes? This exactly works for me with no problems at all. Maybe next time just watch your hardware and do scrub more often or something?..:-)
like unusable system, if you pull the power, and pull the power again while it is restarting; Like slowness under specific conditions; like rendering the file system unbootable, reproducibly, when using a specific setup of snapshots.
What-what? Especially what means your statement about "specific setup of snapshots"?.. Unstable system if you pull the power? Go install VirtualBox, run some heavy-writing process on open solaris and start enjoy tearing it down by powering off virtual machine (i.e. kill -9). If you can to destroy it this way, of course. Also do the *same* on ext3 or especially XFS and see which FS will go nuts first. I bet ZFS will work rock stable, while two others will need fsck or even restore from backup (XFS especially).
I am not saying ZFS is completely saint, but just I have an allergy to some portion for BS, so excuse me.
App Store â" yeah. But it is also means that I will be seriously limited to the scope of applications. First of all, current Android implementation means all apps are in Java. This means there is no way I would run OpenOffice.org or KMail on it. Therefore it still needs a years to spin it out. Now, comparing to iPhone, Android makes sense on mobile devices indeed. But how it makes sense to use mobile applications on a small full-featured PC (well, just not a screamer by its hardware, I agree) -- this does not makes much sense to me personally, if honestly... I mean, it's cool, but is it really practical?.. Who knows. Will see after all.:-)
Have you tried running Ubuntu (non-netbook edition) on a 10.2" screen at 1024x600 screen?
No! I am OpenSolaris guy...:-P But yeah, software developers somewhat thinking that monitors only grows up in size and everybody are gonna use 4096x2160 or something very similar even on a pocket PDA. That's really unfortunately for software design...:-(
But again, that's about window manager and layout. I had a various talks about GUI representation in XML, since GUI are just simple documents, after all. So if you have it as a common XML (which you can pre-compile, of course, to do not overbloat your machine with a stupid diskwaste), yet you might fit it for any sort of platform etc. Maybe this will be done one day, but that's the whole community across whole communities to decide and agree together (which happens as often as a visible comet impact into the Moon).
Well yeah... but that's because software developers has no idea how to make GUI properly, hence you use GUI No One Might Enjoy, which is getting to be better, but still not really what I would daily admire.:-(
In general, it is about resolution, not about screen size itself. Plus, if GNOME would stop wars with KDE:-) (I just dream about that) then maybe they would finally find some common language (I mean, in English or French or German, not C/C++...) and made a standards finally.
But I would agree: that's a bad software design and having buttons off-screen is a shame, regardless you can workaround it with Alt+drag or not.:-(
Ignore it. Makes sense only in an academy or university or R&D or something very-very specific. But for a regular application developers that can do shit like a Facebook and get a millions in a cache, there will be always extreme kamikazes to oppose it, unless get married...:-) The guy will grow up eventually, then think more and then change opinion bit after a while. Especially, after he finally write finally something executable and actually usable, i.e. something other than an extreme (read: bullshit) comment on a slashdot.:-)
Well, then I can say: you should also know how TCP/IP stack is working, if you're going to use socket. Then you also have to know assembler to know how your particular CPU is working, in order to write your program. Then you also have to know how to interpret Java or Python byte code, once you want to use these languages, in order to know underlying concepts. Of course, you should know how your hardware is working in a very details (Sun SPARC, for example) if you want to write some software for stocks/equities.:-) Thus, if you don't know how to push/pop stuff out of registers of your SPARC CPU or are not capable to write a driver for your specific networking card or have no idea how to implement virtual machine in order to use them, then you must be kicked from the industry right away!:-)
So we have an anti-aliasing when drawing. On my MacBook it was slow, now it is hell slow only with few objects on a canvas. And we have translucent selections. We also have SQL highlighting and an embedded forum in document notes (for flamewars, probably).
But I would ask dev team to better remove all those eye candy, but add a feature that is wanted since project born: PERFORMANCE, please! But while it is not there, I'd rather happy to continue use my Emacs + LaTeX. Works great on Mac, you know...
Folks, isn't this idea was for years around? It is called Rhino (http://www.mozilla.org/rhino/) and it is a JavaScript for Java... As a developer, I am quite pretty puzzled why would someone use this Gnome-only thing, instead to use same approach, yet to do cross-platform stuff?
Yes, I know about GTK is sort of ported everywhere, but I'd prefer Java Swing instead, since it is much better acquires native look and feel. For example, GTK for Mac requires X11 and is like an alien. Even alpha-fragile-sort-of-native-for-mac GTK that does not requires X11 and even has menu on top, still looks different and behaves different (means, no good).
If all people who can't afford windows and office or Mac used linux it would have the largest market share..
Man, I never saw a Mac or Windows owner, who would prefer OpenOffice.org instead of MS Office. Have you ever saw MacBook owner with GNU stuff only? So why he needs Mac then if there is Ubuntu on cheap Acer? But opposite, I find people are buying licenses for MS Office to feel safe, to skip learning curve and make sure your documents are really-really-really-really same and not screwed. Even those, who on Windows are not really like OOo. So only Linux people see OOo as an ultimate response, because nothing else exists there! But OK, let's say, Linux market share is whole 1%, to feel very proud (although it is not true). Who the hell will invest in this miserable number of users? You? Me -- no, not.
For those, who are too dumb to use LaTeX or simply can not due to business restrictions, Microsoft won the game, hands down. And, in fact, Macs are cheap these days. I agree for the Ubuntu + OOo is way more cheaper. But as you might notice, "World Domination. Fast" never happened, likely...
If you have a possibility and have to make a decision what to work with: MS Office or OpenOffice, the choice is very obvious to the first one. Second is always optional and in most cases not used.
Those, who can get Windows can get MS Office.
Those, who can get Mac, can get MS Office too. And iWork (I use it, BTW).
Those, who can not afford things above, they use Linux on desktop. And Linux on desktop has miserable market share percentage. That means that company are not going to invest into these things just because it is free stuff.
Seriously. Use OpenOffice is like to choose using bus, while having an own brand new and ready to go car.
I saw things like if you're geek, tech and programmer, you're either on Mac with xVM or VmWare (hence you can use better things), or you're on Linux/BSD/Unix and your world is LaTeX, Emacs and other scary-but-very-good-old-school things, because you use X11 for your 20 xterms to open. If you are anybody else, then usually you're on Windows or, again, on Mac, thus you have an ability to use MS Office.
Yes, OO.o software people are downloading, but I think do not use much. E.g. me. I have it. Installed. 3.0 for Mac. Ran twice: first time to see what's new and how it looks like, second time to make sure simple MS Office document gets completely screwed, when opened. MS Office has its own incompatibility problems. But, frankly, much easier to curse Microsoft 1 minute and then use really usable Excel, rather then feel happy 1 minute that you've got software for free, and curse your rest of the day, because Calc can not do most of regular things that Excel does out of the box.
Oh, and that licence thing... That's the last nail into its coffin, IMHO.
But personally, I feel sad for OOo. Nice software (could be). It already has lots of very cool features and could be good competitor. However, I'd stay on iWork and MS Office.
Try and find some contact lens design/lab control software that runs on Macs or Linux...
Try to run a cellular service center...
Try to find mac/linux software designed to run an optometrists office...
So what? For this rarity we will use XP/Vista. But 99.999% in a daily offices are using typewriters and Linux is best here!
Not sure. They use USB 1.1 due to the very slow I/O. Their flash speed is very limited and internal storage is not any serious as well as an external card. At its best I/O you will get of flash is about 2-3 M/sec, while USB 1 does approximately 1.5M. So that's why USB 2 is just utterly useless in OpenMoko thing. For real stuff it is still better to use 802.11 and mount it through NFS or SMB for file sharing that will allow up to 54mbit. Ironically, I/O limitation will bite back again... Thus actually OpenMoko's hardware does not equals to iPhone and is not that really great.
except both hardware and software is opensource.
Yes. The only question is: who the hell does needs it, except just a few very advanced geeks per a country? I even doubt regular app dev geeks would be really interested in a platform as a such: you have a requirements and you write your app. That's it. Additionally, an infrastructure matters, not a platform openness or closeness. Even so, I would prefer more Android over OpenMoko, as it looks more constant, united and decent.
OpenMoko units are sold out, I know that. But I still truly doubt this thing will rich at least 0.5% market share. As a regular software developer, you're probably more interested how to write your app and get it working for your wife or a granma. Sure it is very cool to have open source platform. But at the same time it is sort of "nice to have" and will also trigger lots of political questions of a customer support.
Slashdot Mirror
I just thought bit different :-) -- see, Darwin has a very big portion of code from a FreeBSD and now Darwin went on iPhone. Obviously, jails are inherited from either FreeBSD or similar, though I am not sure (citation needed). Meaning... is these jails in iPhone has been so screwed up by Apple that can be easily broken, or it is just FreeBSD's code for jails that sucks?
Anyone knows here some details?
He isn't out-of-date. I have to suffer Java 1.6 at my college. The VM is still slow to start, and the GUI libraries still suck.
Nah, not perfect though, but let's don't hyperbolize it either: it does not sucks really anymore. Personally I write a lot of Swing stuff and I would not say it that sucks as before Java 1.4 times. At least now 1.6 I'd say much better than even GTK or QT. Why?
Because:
Additionally, you can use your own look-and-feel (including GTK's) etc. Of course, it has its side effects: you have to emulate specific platform etc. SWT does it natively, but it suffers from portability a lot, plus some parts are written in plain Java. Since API of various platforms changes and sometimes very drastically (like Apple is gonna drop Carbon one day), SWT renders to be a fool trap that always trying to catch up current status, but actually performs great only on Windows.
Add to the story really great try of NetBeans team to bring you GUI visual editor and you have to agree that at least you can create GUI stuff literally in front of your boss's eyes. I agree, Swing not the best yet, but also not that horrible as before anymore either. That's why we can commit our patches to Java 7! :-)
What the heck is "Linux Desktop" anyway? And what is the major difference between "Solaris Desktop" and "FreeBSD/PC-BSD Desktop"?
Oracle will discard the entire hardware division (of Sun), not just the processor departments.
This is called simply a bullshit. And that's why:
Oracle plans to grow the Sun hardware business after the closing, protecting Sun customersâ(TM) investments and ensuring the long-term viability of Sun products. Oracle also intends to focus the server and storage businesses on our common enterprise customers, where we believe we bring competitive advantage, relationships, and a track record of helping to reduce costs and complexity. Key to this strategy will be our plans to develop software-optimized hardware that integrates all of the enterprise components: hardware, database, middleware, and applications. After the closing, Oracle plans to be the only company that can engineer an integrated system where all the pieces fit and work together so customers do not have to do it themselves. Our customers benefit as their systems integration costs go down while system performance, reliability and security go up.
-- http://www.oracle.com/sun/sun-faq.pdf
IOW, it means they are much more serious than just kill. They want to be an IBM and seriously compete with M$ as well.
Maybe apt-get install firefox would help? :-)
Is there any plans for Ubuntu to do not include a Firefox while shipping in EU?
Opera was also first browser that implements Acid 3. Apparently, Apple Safari 4 is the only browser in production right now available in the market.
Thanks.
Is it like you want to do rollbacks/snapshots on volumes? This exactly works for me with no problems at all. Maybe next time just watch your hardware and do scrub more often or something?.. :-)
like unusable system, if you pull the power, and pull the power again while it is restarting; Like slowness under specific conditions; like rendering the file system unbootable, reproducibly, when using a specific setup of snapshots.
What-what? Especially what means your statement about "specific setup of snapshots"?.. Unstable system if you pull the power? Go install VirtualBox, run some heavy-writing process on open solaris and start enjoy tearing it down by powering off virtual machine (i.e. kill -9). If you can to destroy it this way, of course. Also do the *same* on ext3 or especially XFS and see which FS will go nuts first. I bet ZFS will work rock stable, while two others will need fsck or even restore from backup (XFS especially).
I am not saying ZFS is completely saint, but just I have an allergy to some portion for BS, so excuse me.
App Store â" yeah. But it is also means that I will be seriously limited to the scope of applications. First of all, current Android implementation means all apps are in Java. This means there is no way I would run OpenOffice.org or KMail on it. Therefore it still needs a years to spin it out. Now, comparing to iPhone, Android makes sense on mobile devices indeed. But how it makes sense to use mobile applications on a small full-featured PC (well, just not a screamer by its hardware, I agree) -- this does not makes much sense to me personally, if honestly... I mean, it's cool, but is it really practical?.. Who knows. Will see after all. :-)
Have you tried running Ubuntu (non-netbook edition) on a 10.2" screen at 1024x600 screen?
No! I am OpenSolaris guy... :-P But yeah, software developers somewhat thinking that monitors only grows up in size and everybody are gonna use 4096x2160 or something very similar even on a pocket PDA. That's really unfortunately for software design... :-(
But again, that's about window manager and layout. I had a various talks about GUI representation in XML, since GUI are just simple documents, after all. So if you have it as a common XML (which you can pre-compile, of course, to do not overbloat your machine with a stupid diskwaste), yet you might fit it for any sort of platform etc. Maybe this will be done one day, but that's the whole community across whole communities to decide and agree together (which happens as often as a visible comet impact into the Moon).
Well yeah... but that's because software developers has no idea how to make GUI properly, hence you use GUI No One Might Enjoy, which is getting to be better, but still not really what I would daily admire. :-(
In general, it is about resolution, not about screen size itself. Plus, if GNOME would stop wars with KDE :-) (I just dream about that) then maybe they would finally find some common language (I mean, in English or French or German, not C/C++...) and made a standards finally.
But I would agree: that's a bad software design and having buttons off-screen is a shame, regardless you can workaround it with Alt+drag or not. :-(
Definitely not super-thin. BTW, why I need Android (roughly saying, a limited Linux) on my netbook if there is a regular Linux?..
and be able to do fault isolation
You mean, exception handling in Perl? :-)
Ignore it. Makes sense only in an academy or university or R&D or something very-very specific. But for a regular application developers that can do shit like a Facebook and get a millions in a cache, there will be always extreme kamikazes to oppose it, unless get married... :-) The guy will grow up eventually, then think more and then change opinion bit after a while. Especially, after he finally write finally something executable and actually usable, i.e. something other than an extreme (read: bullshit) comment on a slashdot. :-)
Well, then I can say: you should also know how TCP/IP stack is working, if you're going to use socket. Then you also have to know assembler to know how your particular CPU is working, in order to write your program. Then you also have to know how to interpret Java or Python byte code, once you want to use these languages, in order to know underlying concepts. Of course, you should know how your hardware is working in a very details (Sun SPARC, for example) if you want to write some software for stocks/equities. :-) Thus, if you don't know how to push/pop stuff out of registers of your SPARC CPU or are not capable to write a driver for your specific networking card or have no idea how to implement virtual machine in order to use them, then you must be kicked from the industry right away! :-)
Correct?
It is almost more difficult to find wrong hardware for FreeBSD. [...] Hell, most systems that are being thrown away right now can run it just fine.
Right. But there is a proverb: "If you are so smart, why so poor?", IOW, if so cool, why popularity is so miserable and much smaller than Linux?
So we have an anti-aliasing when drawing. On my MacBook it was slow, now it is hell slow only with few objects on a canvas. And we have translucent selections. We also have SQL highlighting and an embedded forum in document notes (for flamewars, probably).
But I would ask dev team to better remove all those eye candy, but add a feature that is wanted since project born: PERFORMANCE, please! But while it is not there, I'd rather happy to continue use my Emacs + LaTeX. Works great on Mac, you know...
Folks, isn't this idea was for years around? It is called Rhino (http://www.mozilla.org/rhino/) and it is a JavaScript for Java... As a developer, I am quite pretty puzzled why would someone use this Gnome-only thing, instead to use same approach, yet to do cross-platform stuff?
Yes, I know about GTK is sort of ported everywhere, but I'd prefer Java Swing instead, since it is much better acquires native look and feel. For example, GTK for Mac requires X11 and is like an alien. Even alpha-fragile-sort-of-native-for-mac GTK that does not requires X11 and even has menu on top, still looks different and behaves different (means, no good).
Interesting to hear your opinion here...
If all people who can't afford windows and office or Mac used linux it would have the largest market share..
Man, I never saw a Mac or Windows owner, who would prefer OpenOffice.org instead of MS Office. Have you ever saw MacBook owner with GNU stuff only? So why he needs Mac then if there is Ubuntu on cheap Acer? But opposite, I find people are buying licenses for MS Office to feel safe, to skip learning curve and make sure your documents are really-really-really-really same and not screwed. Even those, who on Windows are not really like OOo. So only Linux people see OOo as an ultimate response, because nothing else exists there! But OK, let's say, Linux market share is whole 1%, to feel very proud (although it is not true). Who the hell will invest in this miserable number of users? You? Me -- no, not.
For those, who are too dumb to use LaTeX or simply can not due to business restrictions, Microsoft won the game, hands down. And, in fact, Macs are cheap these days. I agree for the Ubuntu + OOo is way more cheaper. But as you might notice, "World Domination. Fast" never happened, likely...
Seriously. Use OpenOffice is like to choose using bus, while having an own brand new and ready to go car.
I saw things like if you're geek, tech and programmer, you're either on Mac with xVM or VmWare (hence you can use better things), or you're on Linux/BSD/Unix and your world is LaTeX, Emacs and other scary-but-very-good-old-school things, because you use X11 for your 20 xterms to open. If you are anybody else, then usually you're on Windows or, again, on Mac, thus you have an ability to use MS Office.
Yes, OO.o software people are downloading, but I think do not use much. E.g. me. I have it. Installed. 3.0 for Mac. Ran twice: first time to see what's new and how it looks like, second time to make sure simple MS Office document gets completely screwed, when opened. MS Office has its own incompatibility problems. But, frankly, much easier to curse Microsoft 1 minute and then use really usable Excel, rather then feel happy 1 minute that you've got software for free, and curse your rest of the day, because Calc can not do most of regular things that Excel does out of the box.
Oh, and that licence thing... That's the last nail into its coffin, IMHO.
But personally, I feel sad for OOo. Nice software (could be). It already has lots of very cool features and could be good competitor. However, I'd stay on iWork and MS Office.
Note: that kid is a blonde... :-)
WinME was for home consumers not businesses. Businesses never had to deal with ME.
Now they do...
Try and find some contact lens design/lab control software that runs on Macs or Linux... Try to run a cellular service center ...
Try to find mac/linux software designed to run an optometrists office...
So what? For this rarity we will use XP/Vista. But 99.999% in a daily offices are using typewriters and Linux is best here!
Oh, wait...
Pretty much the same hardware
Not sure. They use USB 1.1 due to the very slow I/O. Their flash speed is very limited and internal storage is not any serious as well as an external card. At its best I/O you will get of flash is about 2-3 M/sec, while USB 1 does approximately 1.5M. So that's why USB 2 is just utterly useless in OpenMoko thing. For real stuff it is still better to use 802.11 and mount it through NFS or SMB for file sharing that will allow up to 54mbit. Ironically, I/O limitation will bite back again... Thus actually OpenMoko's hardware does not equals to iPhone and is not that really great.
except both hardware and software is opensource.
Yes. The only question is: who the hell does needs it, except just a few very advanced geeks per a country? I even doubt regular app dev geeks would be really interested in a platform as a such: you have a requirements and you write your app. That's it. Additionally, an infrastructure matters, not a platform openness or closeness. Even so, I would prefer more Android over OpenMoko, as it looks more constant, united and decent.
OpenMoko units are sold out, I know that. But I still truly doubt this thing will rich at least 0.5% market share. As a regular software developer, you're probably more interested how to write your app and get it working for your wife or a granma. Sure it is very cool to have open source platform. But at the same time it is sort of "nice to have" and will also trigger lots of political questions of a customer support.