A couple of bad assumptions here. Normally I wouln't care, but comparing me to a bigot tends to raise my ire.
1. I don't specifically dislike farmers, they're just making a buck, its a bit shady but there are worse things people can do. I never stated what they do in essence is bad, I really don't care and in fact I think gold selling should be legitimized my MMO creators.
2. I don't know what is causing the issues, I am merely speculating on rumors.
3. I didn't at all describe the effect as "magical," there are direct techincal things that can be done to cause DDoS attacks, they are in no way magical.
The point I am trying to get is thus. People have noticed odd corrallaries between farmer behavior and server lag. The first being several months ago with the mauradon instance, now seemingly with the DM instance. I state it because there are ways to use server lag and server restarts to duplicate items, and farmers would have something to gain from said duping (they have in the past with other games). So this collection of rumors can create a possible picture of whats going on, and since blizzard has not been forthcomming about what specifically has been happing we are forced to speculate. No proof, no facts just rumors and inuendo.
Anyway the word "possible" and "rumor" apear a couple times in my post so how about some reading and critical thinking before comparing me to a bigot? Or do you just need to be an self-righteous ass to everyone?
If they failed to stick to their guns on the Jedi issue from the get go, no way its going to happen now. Remeber the beging, when Jedi were to be scarce and if they dared show themselves in public bounty hunters could gun them down and they would die, permanently.
Buy the fanboys cried, LA instantly capitulated and a good game design was thrown out the window with the rest of the good ideas this game started with.
I almost thought they were going to finally put this farce to rest. But I guess they figure as long as the train's still running, might as well wreck it a few dozen more times.
On the other hand what companies still even supports games that are 6 years old? Much less still run official servers for them. I'd say that says something too.
Again this is correct, but it could mean the farmers have just switched focus here to max out what gold they can make. DM librums and books are almost always money makers (librums especially since the zg enchants require them). So this could just be a result of farmers using this instance primarily to make gold since world farming is less profitable.
The drop in costs is farmers competeing with eachother (they each have quotas to fill). Unless someone has hard evidence of something they're specifically doing in there that causes stability issues, it may be they're just in there using hunters to, well, farm the place. Hunter are the best farming class now since their update and may be able to solo enough of the stuff.
I think you're exagerating a bit much here. The service is mostly available and most days I play with no problems. Log in times are a bit longer but a minute here or there at login doesn't matter much to me. While the recent outages and lag are much too freqent and a significant problem, I wouldn't say that I can "hardly play" when I want. But the service has certainly degraded from several months ago and isn't what I expect for a monthly service fee.
Right, but 10-12 (or even 20-30) extra DM instances per server shouldn't be causing these kinds of problems. If it is the farmers there some more advanced shenanagins going on I'd think.
The way I see it is I really like WoW, so I'm willing to put up with a few things to play it. Bad lag, queue, etc are tolerable due to the quality of the game.
However, that doesn't mean its justifiable for blizzard to have this many lapses in service. Yes WoW is ver popular and I'm sure its difficult to keep things running with the ammount of traffic they have. But thats why I pay a monthly fee, so that this stuff gets handled. So blizzard need to get this situation resolved as even a big fan like myself has a limited ammount of patience.
Several months back there was a similar rash of instabilities and sever restarts. There were a bunch of rumors that gold farmers were using something to de-stabalize the servers. It used to be that zoning into instance under high lag was used to dupe items, never confirmed it actaully worked but that was the rumor.
I mention it because perhaps something similar is going on here. The servers are getting destabilized and forced to restart. And you can use a server restart(and the small rollback that usually hits because of it) to dupe items or gold(this works, I've seen it done).
In the end its just a random collection of rumors that fits the facts. So take with whatever amount of seasoning you need.
Not really, never said that keyboard wasn't allowed, AND reading the specs it doesn't seem like the sofware on that allows you to create looping macros (any more detail on that?), which is what I was talking about since botting relys on looping macros. Using the keyboard to execute in game macros is totally fine, it only becomes botting when you automate keyboard input, which is what it sounds like this guy was doing, but I don't really know for sure.
So, the board(as far as I can tell) operates completely inside the games macro\UI system. TRY AGAIN PLEASE.
Its a matter of control. The macro\UI system in WoW is limted, you can only do so many things with it and its specificallay designed to not allow looped commands. However using a third party program (the easiest example being a program that emulates keystrokes) you can loop commands and do about anything the game allows. So techincally the macro software for a programmable keybaord could be considered a third party program used for botting depending on how flexible the macroing is as it doesn't conform to the in game macro\UI restrictions.
Ok, I overstated on the tinfoil hat thing, my appologies. BUT, the addiction arguement is still meaningless. People have willpower, no one is mentally forced to play these games, it is a choice. And the addiction meme is just an excuse for peoples bad choices. Psychoactive drugs are addictive, games are not.
Yeah, killing dragons and fighting old gods for phat loots every week is soooooo tedious.
First off, this is not typical of gameplay in WoW. The weapon skills are levelable at any time, I maxed mine during dungeon crawls (even unarmed), didn't spend ANY time grinding it on low level creatures like this guy did. 2nd he's a caster so his weapon skills are nearly meaningless. So, guess what, HE CHOSE to grind low level critters to up his skills, so its actually not indicative of the gameplay at all. He was just looking for an easy out that he could bot. So acutally it says ALMOST NOTHING about WoW and more about how he chose to play it.
Oh but you bashed the game so you're "Insightful" gg you.
Either that or people, gasp, actually enjoy it. Guess what? I play WoW several hours a day, because I like it, I choose to. Addiction is a crutch arguement, makes it easier to blame poor personal choices on some magic pull these games have. Oh and the whole "they consult phsycologists to make MMOs," tinfoil hat material, seriously.
Curious how posts bashing MMO's always seem to get "insightful."
If you don't like them, don't play them, its just that simple. We're proud you're bucking the trend and are too cool for MMO's, we really are, you're a special person. Now go away.
Back on topic, I have no idea what this has to do with WINE, it sounds tagential to the issue really.
Always facsinated by people here that have this wierd urge to yell "I play WoW but I don't play it much, so that means I'm cool and healthy!!" Whats the motivation? Is it just a desire to degrade someone else so you feel good, or because you're jealous my tier 2 60 can stomp you flat?
Most "classic style" (read: EQ) MMOs are about character building. Getting levels and loot, constantly improving the character.
WoW actually manages to score over a lot of MMOs in high end content in that a lot of the newer content (BWL, ZG, AQ20/40) the boss fights are very dynamic and reactive. Its simply part of the game that you'll have to repeat a lot of content to get the loot you want, but at least blizzard puts in the effort and makes the encounters more fun in that you can't just wieght down a button and fall alseep.
So in the higher end stuff (with the notable exception of MC) you actually have to pay attention and play. And with the better desinged fights, they've put in a few random elements to make it not quite the same fight every time. MC unfortunatly is a kind of dreary training instance and gets very very dull after a while.
But even so if repetition is not your thing, then high end raiding is not for you.
Re:How to handle something you don't like
on
World of Queuecraft
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· Score: 1
EVE is hardly a replacement for WoW, the gameplay styles are radically different. Not my cup of tea thanks.
I agree that Blizzard needs to come up with something better. After all the money they are making on this they can afford to improve the servers. Thing is, when it comes to fantasy style MMORPGs, nothing comes close to WoW.
EQ2 PvE content is complete cookie cutter stuff, seriously take any of the high end EQ2 fights and compare it to the fantastically designed Nefarion battle, no contest.
Guildwars is just a diablo game in 3D with a bigger lobby. Thats fine if you like it, but its not the style of MMO I like, where the emphasis is on character building. GW character building takes about a week.
MxO.... do people still actually play this piece of garbage?
I don't like the server issue either, but fact remains that WoW is a fantastic game and frankly, I like it enough to put up with the server issues for now. But we lovers of WoW have hope, BLizzard NEVER abondons their games. Things will get better, but as with anything Blizzard does, it takes a lot longer than you want it to.
Reading this wouldn't 'Uru Attempts a Comeback' be more accurate. I dunno about you but 'limited funding from a third party' doesn't sound like a comeback. It sounds more like, well we couldn't bring the game back ourselves and didn't really have the drive to, but someone else has given us money so lets see if we can do something with that.
Bad Director Throws Fit, Still Bad Afterward
on
Uwe Boll Smash!
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· Score: 1
A rather amusing little tirade.
Where to start...
Ok first you took one of the most treasured PC games of all time, the Lovecraftian inspired Alone in the Dark, sets in in modern times and puts Tara Reid in it. I could honsestly care less about Dungeon Siege or Bloodrayne or House of the Dead, those games had little to no plot or atmosphere to them, but the steaming turd he made of AiTD is unforgivable. Movies based on video games have always been weak, but Boll has compined that with a budget movie mentality wich is a sort of alchemical compination of crap and more crap.
So for Mr. Boll:
Gamers think you suck
Critics think you suck
Independant moviegoers think you suck
Conclusion: you suck. Find a new job or go back to making regular budget crap movies.
SWG has been a comedy of errors for the begining.
Remeber the first month, how heavy weapons weren't even avaible? And then when they were they did less damage than common blasters? Or then after that they horribly overbowered the weapons? Or how for a long while a support class (combat medic) was king of all pvp? Or how low lever armor was completely useless and was more detrimental than helpful? Or how they strangely then decided that all melee weapon classes should be comically overpowered despite the original "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" statements? Or how they never actaully did any reasearch into how high quality materials could affect the crafting of armor and doctor buffs and make players virtually invincible? Or how their attempts at "high level content" was to make places filled with ultra-mega-super driods that took 20 people 10 minutes to kill one? Or how they completely caved in and removed jedi perma-death despite saying they wouldn't? Or how they had to COMPLETELY rethink the combat system, admitting it was broken and non-sensicle?
The only thing SWG has ever had going for it can be summed up in two words "Star Wars." Thats it, everything since then has been a joke, LA has completely failed on this project, constantly making a bad game worse and worse and worse.
This reads a bit too much like consipiracy theory.
Because we are immediately suspicious of any transaction where one side has a financial interest in how you spend your time.
Better stop watching TV then. TV advertising like knowing about how you spend your TV time and they bankroll the shows you watch.
We have that reaction because on some level, we realize that publishers of MMORPG's are the electronic equivalent of tobacco companies.
Ah yes, because everyone who smokes is a victim, I keep forgetting that they never chose to start smoking. Ok I know addictions are tough to put down once you start, but you chose to start. People just want it to be someone elses fault.
Sony hired shrinks to make sure EQ put asses in seats and kept them there.
Sony had nothing to do with the developement of EQ, it was created by Verant. In fact if memory serves Sony didn't orignally host it either, they bought it. I see we've gone from rhetoric to making stuff up.
we don't trust the publishers of these games to deliver the best quality experience to us. There are too many incentives for them to do otherwise
This makes no sense. If I don't like an MMOs experience, I don't play it. Case in point, FFXI, I didn't like the forced grouping and xp loss, I cancelled it.
You seem to be arguing under the concept that we are somehow forced to play these games, we aren't. As per usual you mention the children (/shrill Won't somone please think of the children), well children should be supervised by their parents, thats not my problem. I am an adult, If I play 5 hours of WoW a day, its because I want to. If I get "addicted" its my fault, I should've known when to quit. The problem with comparing gaming or tv or anything like that to drugs is that drugs are mind altering substances, electronic entertainment is not. People just use the "addiction" meme to remove responsibility.
I think the problem with ZG is that most people aren't willing to face encounters you have to learn to beat, rather tahn ones you can just wing through. All of the ZG bosses are about execution, know what to do and when to do it, thats it. ZG is easily done by non-epic geared people, as long as they realize what they have to do. Every other instance in WoW is possible to just wing through because they nerfed them hugely. The older 10 man instances (Strath, LBRS, Scholo) used to be MUCH harder, but as a consequence they took too long. So thye made them easy, and I think they made them a little too easy. Personally I think they should cap them at 5 where they are actaully a challenge.
But I suppose it remains true that if you want to do raid content, join a guild.
Ok, seriously, what exactly motivates all these "I'm so glad I don't play MMOs" comments? Are we supposed to pat you on the back for avoiding the big bad mmo?
Or its is some strang kind of elitism, "Well I may play games, but least I don't play those dirty MMOs." I know people that play console games MORE than I play WoW (more hours a day that is) and yet people always blab about "MMO addiction." NEWS FLASH, any form of entertainment can be addicting, but its easier to marganalize people with a form you don't particularly like. But tell me, which is "worse" spedning 4 hours in from of the tube with a controller in a completely self absorbed activity, or spending 4 hours in an MMO where you actually can speak and interact with actual people.
So for all the "I'm so glad I avoid MMOs" people, get over yourself and put your hypocracy where its wanted.
Slashdot Mirror
I also remember times when people had a spine and posted on real accounts.
An edit button would be nice some days.
A couple of bad assumptions here. Normally I wouln't care, but comparing me to a bigot tends to raise my ire.
1. I don't specifically dislike farmers, they're just making a buck, its a bit shady but there are worse things people can do. I never stated what they do in essence is bad, I really don't care and in fact I think gold selling should be legitimized my MMO creators.
2. I don't know what is causing the issues, I am merely speculating on rumors.
3. I didn't at all describe the effect as "magical," there are direct techincal things that can be done to cause DDoS attacks, they are in no way magical.
The point I am trying to get is thus. People have noticed odd corrallaries between farmer behavior and server lag. The first being several months ago with the mauradon instance, now seemingly with the DM instance. I state it because there are ways to use server lag and server restarts to duplicate items, and farmers would have something to gain from said duping (they have in the past with other games). So this collection of rumors can create a possible picture of whats going on, and since blizzard has not been forthcomming about what specifically has been happing we are forced to speculate. No proof, no facts just rumors and inuendo.
Anyway the word "possible" and "rumor" apear a couple times in my post so how about some reading and critical thinking before comparing me to a bigot? Or do you just need to be an self-righteous ass to everyone?
If they failed to stick to their guns on the Jedi issue from the get go, no way its going to happen now. Remeber the beging, when Jedi were to be scarce and if they dared show themselves in public bounty hunters could gun them down and they would die, permanently.
Buy the fanboys cried, LA instantly capitulated and a good game design was thrown out the window with the rest of the good ideas this game started with.
I almost thought they were going to finally put this farce to rest. But I guess they figure as long as the train's still running, might as well wreck it a few dozen more times.
Let this game die already, its suffering.
On the other hand what companies still even supports games that are 6 years old? Much less still run official servers for them. I'd say that says something too.
Again this is correct, but it could mean the farmers have just switched focus here to max out what gold they can make. DM librums and books are almost always money makers (librums especially since the zg enchants require them). So this could just be a result of farmers using this instance primarily to make gold since world farming is less profitable.
The drop in costs is farmers competeing with eachother (they each have quotas to fill). Unless someone has hard evidence of something they're specifically doing in there that causes stability issues, it may be they're just in there using hunters to, well, farm the place. Hunter are the best farming class now since their update and may be able to solo enough of the stuff.
I think you're exagerating a bit much here. The service is mostly available and most days I play with no problems. Log in times are a bit longer but a minute here or there at login doesn't matter much to me. While the recent outages and lag are much too freqent and a significant problem, I wouldn't say that I can "hardly play" when I want. But the service has certainly degraded from several months ago and isn't what I expect for a monthly service fee.
Right, but 10-12 (or even 20-30) extra DM instances per server shouldn't be causing these kinds of problems. If it is the farmers there some more advanced shenanagins going on I'd think.
The way I see it is I really like WoW, so I'm willing to put up with a few things to play it. Bad lag, queue, etc are tolerable due to the quality of the game.
However, that doesn't mean its justifiable for blizzard to have this many lapses in service. Yes WoW is ver popular and I'm sure its difficult to keep things running with the ammount of traffic they have. But thats why I pay a monthly fee, so that this stuff gets handled. So blizzard need to get this situation resolved as even a big fan like myself has a limited ammount of patience.
Several months back there was a similar rash of instabilities and sever restarts. There were a bunch of rumors that gold farmers were using something to de-stabalize the servers. It used to be that zoning into instance under high lag was used to dupe items, never confirmed it actaully worked but that was the rumor.
I mention it because perhaps something similar is going on here. The servers are getting destabilized and forced to restart. And you can use a server restart(and the small rollback that usually hits because of it) to dupe items or gold(this works, I've seen it done).
In the end its just a random collection of rumors that fits the facts. So take with whatever amount of seasoning you need.
Not really, never said that keyboard wasn't allowed, AND reading the specs it doesn't seem like the sofware on that allows you to create looping macros (any more detail on that?), which is what I was talking about since botting relys on looping macros. Using the keyboard to execute in game macros is totally fine, it only becomes botting when you automate keyboard input, which is what it sounds like this guy was doing, but I don't really know for sure. So, the board(as far as I can tell) operates completely inside the games macro\UI system. TRY AGAIN PLEASE.
Its a matter of control. The macro\UI system in WoW is limted, you can only do so many things with it and its specificallay designed to not allow looped commands. However using a third party program (the easiest example being a program that emulates keystrokes) you can loop commands and do about anything the game allows. So techincally the macro software for a programmable keybaord could be considered a third party program used for botting depending on how flexible the macroing is as it doesn't conform to the in game macro\UI restrictions.
Ok, I overstated on the tinfoil hat thing, my appologies. BUT, the addiction arguement is still meaningless. People have willpower, no one is mentally forced to play these games, it is a choice. And the addiction meme is just an excuse for peoples bad choices. Psychoactive drugs are addictive, games are not.
Yeah, killing dragons and fighting old gods for phat loots every week is soooooo tedious. First off, this is not typical of gameplay in WoW. The weapon skills are levelable at any time, I maxed mine during dungeon crawls (even unarmed), didn't spend ANY time grinding it on low level creatures like this guy did. 2nd he's a caster so his weapon skills are nearly meaningless. So, guess what, HE CHOSE to grind low level critters to up his skills, so its actually not indicative of the gameplay at all. He was just looking for an easy out that he could bot. So acutally it says ALMOST NOTHING about WoW and more about how he chose to play it. Oh but you bashed the game so you're "Insightful" gg you.
Either that or people, gasp, actually enjoy it. Guess what? I play WoW several hours a day, because I like it, I choose to. Addiction is a crutch arguement, makes it easier to blame poor personal choices on some magic pull these games have. Oh and the whole "they consult phsycologists to make MMOs," tinfoil hat material, seriously.
Curious how posts bashing MMO's always seem to get "insightful."
If you don't like them, don't play them, its just that simple. We're proud you're bucking the trend and are too cool for MMO's, we really are, you're a special person. Now go away.
Back on topic, I have no idea what this has to do with WINE, it sounds tagential to the issue really.
Want a cookie?
Always facsinated by people here that have this wierd urge to yell "I play WoW but I don't play it much, so that means I'm cool and healthy!!" Whats the motivation? Is it just a desire to degrade someone else so you feel good, or because you're jealous my tier 2 60 can stomp you flat?
Most "classic style" (read: EQ) MMOs are about character building. Getting levels and loot, constantly improving the character.
WoW actually manages to score over a lot of MMOs in high end content in that a lot of the newer content (BWL, ZG, AQ20/40) the boss fights are very dynamic and reactive. Its simply part of the game that you'll have to repeat a lot of content to get the loot you want, but at least blizzard puts in the effort and makes the encounters more fun in that you can't just wieght down a button and fall alseep.
So in the higher end stuff (with the notable exception of MC) you actually have to pay attention and play. And with the better desinged fights, they've put in a few random elements to make it not quite the same fight every time. MC unfortunatly is a kind of dreary training instance and gets very very dull after a while.
But even so if repetition is not your thing, then high end raiding is not for you.
EVE is hardly a replacement for WoW, the gameplay styles are radically different. Not my cup of tea thanks.
I agree that Blizzard needs to come up with something better. After all the money they are making on this they can afford to improve the servers. Thing is, when it comes to fantasy style MMORPGs, nothing comes close to WoW.
EQ2 PvE content is complete cookie cutter stuff, seriously take any of the high end EQ2 fights and compare it to the fantastically designed Nefarion battle, no contest.
Guildwars is just a diablo game in 3D with a bigger lobby. Thats fine if you like it, but its not the style of MMO I like, where the emphasis is on character building. GW character building takes about a week.
MxO.... do people still actually play this piece of garbage?
I don't like the server issue either, but fact remains that WoW is a fantastic game and frankly, I like it enough to put up with the server issues for now. But we lovers of WoW have hope, BLizzard NEVER abondons their games. Things will get better, but as with anything Blizzard does, it takes a lot longer than you want it to.
Reading this wouldn't 'Uru Attempts a Comeback' be more accurate. I dunno about you but 'limited funding from a third party' doesn't sound like a comeback. It sounds more like, well we couldn't bring the game back ourselves and didn't really have the drive to, but someone else has given us money so lets see if we can do something with that.
A rather amusing little tirade.
Where to start...
Ok first you took one of the most treasured PC games of all time, the Lovecraftian inspired Alone in the Dark, sets in in modern times and puts Tara Reid in it. I could honsestly care less about Dungeon Siege or Bloodrayne or House of the Dead, those games had little to no plot or atmosphere to them, but the steaming turd he made of AiTD is unforgivable. Movies based on video games have always been weak, but Boll has compined that with a budget movie mentality wich is a sort of alchemical compination of crap and more crap.
So for Mr. Boll:
Gamers think you suck
Critics think you suck
Independant moviegoers think you suck
Conclusion: you suck. Find a new job or go back to making regular budget crap movies.
SWG has been a comedy of errors for the begining. Remeber the first month, how heavy weapons weren't even avaible? And then when they were they did less damage than common blasters? Or then after that they horribly overbowered the weapons? Or how for a long while a support class (combat medic) was king of all pvp? Or how low lever armor was completely useless and was more detrimental than helpful? Or how they strangely then decided that all melee weapon classes should be comically overpowered despite the original "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" statements? Or how they never actaully did any reasearch into how high quality materials could affect the crafting of armor and doctor buffs and make players virtually invincible? Or how their attempts at "high level content" was to make places filled with ultra-mega-super driods that took 20 people 10 minutes to kill one? Or how they completely caved in and removed jedi perma-death despite saying they wouldn't? Or how they had to COMPLETELY rethink the combat system, admitting it was broken and non-sensicle? The only thing SWG has ever had going for it can be summed up in two words "Star Wars." Thats it, everything since then has been a joke, LA has completely failed on this project, constantly making a bad game worse and worse and worse.
This reads a bit too much like consipiracy theory.
Because we are immediately suspicious of any transaction where one side has a financial interest in how you spend your time.
Better stop watching TV then. TV advertising like knowing about how you spend your TV time and they bankroll the shows you watch.
We have that reaction because on some level, we realize that publishers of MMORPG's are the electronic equivalent of tobacco companies.
Ah yes, because everyone who smokes is a victim, I keep forgetting that they never chose to start smoking. Ok I know addictions are tough to put down once you start, but you chose to start. People just want it to be someone elses fault.
Sony hired shrinks to make sure EQ put asses in seats and kept them there.
Sony had nothing to do with the developement of EQ, it was created by Verant. In fact if memory serves Sony didn't orignally host it either, they bought it. I see we've gone from rhetoric to making stuff up.
we don't trust the publishers of these games to deliver the best quality experience to us. There are too many incentives for them to do otherwise
This makes no sense. If I don't like an MMOs experience, I don't play it. Case in point, FFXI, I didn't like the forced grouping and xp loss, I cancelled it. You seem to be arguing under the concept that we are somehow forced to play these games, we aren't. As per usual you mention the children (/shrill Won't somone please think of the children), well children should be supervised by their parents, thats not my problem. I am an adult, If I play 5 hours of WoW a day, its because I want to. If I get "addicted" its my fault, I should've known when to quit. The problem with comparing gaming or tv or anything like that to drugs is that drugs are mind altering substances, electronic entertainment is not. People just use the "addiction" meme to remove responsibility.
I think the problem with ZG is that most people aren't willing to face encounters you have to learn to beat, rather tahn ones you can just wing through. All of the ZG bosses are about execution, know what to do and when to do it, thats it. ZG is easily done by non-epic geared people, as long as they realize what they have to do. Every other instance in WoW is possible to just wing through because they nerfed them hugely. The older 10 man instances (Strath, LBRS, Scholo) used to be MUCH harder, but as a consequence they took too long. So thye made them easy, and I think they made them a little too easy. Personally I think they should cap them at 5 where they are actaully a challenge. But I suppose it remains true that if you want to do raid content, join a guild.
Ok, seriously, what exactly motivates all these "I'm so glad I don't play MMOs" comments? Are we supposed to pat you on the back for avoiding the big bad mmo?
Or its is some strang kind of elitism, "Well I may play games, but least I don't play those dirty MMOs." I know people that play console games MORE than I play WoW (more hours a day that is) and yet people always blab about "MMO addiction." NEWS FLASH, any form of entertainment can be addicting, but its easier to marganalize people with a form you don't particularly like. But tell me, which is "worse" spedning 4 hours in from of the tube with a controller in a completely self absorbed activity, or spending 4 hours in an MMO where you actually can speak and interact with actual people.
So for all the "I'm so glad I avoid MMOs" people, get over yourself and put your hypocracy where its wanted.