Of course everyone can't keep him around for their own database, but you could pay employees to learn how to use the product for less than Oracle support
I agree that you'll want to read your contract, but realize that 90% of the promises you agreed to are indefensible. Non-compete clauses, intellectual property rules(except that developed on company time with company resources), etc., are bull. Were you given the choice to not sign the paperwork, or to negotiate the contract?
But if your employer chooses to fight you in court over it, your only chance is to match or surpass their spending unless you get a fair judge/jury.
What you need to ask is, how much is it worth to you. You won't get a decent legal *opinion* for less than a few thousand dollars, and even then, you'll have to look hard to find a good lawyer specializing in intellectual property. (Most of them work for big companies.) That's before you'll even know whether it's worth it to fight.
The sense that you are hesitant to walk away from your job over this project suggests to me that it probably isn't worth seeing a lawyer about
Honesty is always the best policy, and the only reason not to pursue it is if you have used knowledge gained from your current employer, and that doesn't include generic things like programming experience. Basically, whatever is specifically labelled as proprietary information: business strategy, proprietary code, market information.
Because this product *exactly* matches the requirements of your employers client, I'd guess you either used proprietary information, in which case, I'd suggest turning it over to your employer, and possibly being rewarded for your foresight, or else it is a significantly generic application that you have a good case if you wish to keep it to yourself.
All I can say with certainty is that we need more information to be able to give any worthwhile advice
I'm not trying to give ammunition to an opposition when this ends up in court, but I'd like to see how many slashdot readers associate the term "ssh" with the secure shell protocol or with the trademark name.
I, personally, wasn't even aware that there was a trademarked SSH brand company, and when I went to search for an ssh implementation to install, and found that Tatu Ylonen had registered a company with that name, I found it quite brazen to name his company after the protocol, as if someone had chosen to name their networking company TCP/IP (R).
I don't know the facts, and couldn't find them anywhere in this thread. Did Tatu Ylonen develop the ssh protocol? Did he coin the term "ssh" or "secure shell"?
If so, I feel he has the right to enforce his trademark, just as Linus Torvalds has the right to enforce the use of the term "Linux". And, although, I'd like it if he were as reasonable as Linus (i.e. with Red Hat, Debian, Slackware, etc.), it is his right to utilize trademark law for his own benefit.
That said, it is obvious that the letter posted to the openssh dev mailing list is belligerent and inflammatory; and that his intent is to "create" evidence to defend his trademark in court and to justify his actions (or intent). He is not only creating proof of defense of the trademark, but attempting to convince others (as well as himself) of the material value of "ssh" as a trademark that is not, at least in my mind, actually there, and to plant artificial statistics in the minds of "witnesses" that would otherwise be uncorraborated.
As evidence, I submit my suspicion that the figure of 180 employees is bullshit.
The reason the net is so quickly becoming corporatized is *because* of government regulation.
The graft he talks about has already made it a government of the corporations. The federal reserve bows to Wall Street. Food and drugs are regulated, yes, to protect the public saftey, but primarily to keep the oligopolies in power. Even environmental law exercises favoritism about when it will look the other way and where it will probe.
Someone mentioned Monsanto above. Ever wonder who Monsanto's competitors are?
Ludicrously enforced copyright and patent laws will be the death of freedom on the net, before anything else. And lets not forget, internet porn was *highly* subsidized by the government and justified by the media. Remember all the 'when VCRs first came out' analogies?
The problem isn't the the tarball, its the failure of standards. I'm not talking microsoftization, its simple things like proper versioning (DLL anyone?) and a fscking regular filesystem (excuse the pun).
Does anyone remember what networking was like before TCP/IP gained acceptance. RFCs, open specs, and agreement between vendors.
Sooner or later someone is going to have to #define constants
The way you beat a bully is you knock him down, wait for him to stand up, knock him down again and keep at it till he stays down and cries uncle.
That means you kick him out of kuwait and say don't do it again.
You ever trained an animal? Same thing. If you beat a dog the day after he pees on the carpet, he forgets what it was for, and eventually will bite.
ps. he never made a nuke. But its really easy to put an embargo on enriched uranium and atari 2600s without restricting food and medicine.
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:24:53 -0500
From: Weld Pond
To: BUGTRAQ@SECURITYFOCUS.COM
Subject: @stake Advisory Notification Format
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
I think everyone out there knows that we are committed to full disclosure and the concept of freely available security advisories. Many vendors do not issue bulletins after we report problems to them, even after they subsequently fix the problems. Without advisories from independant researchers there is no check on product vendors. This is a service that we give to the security community because we think it is the right thing to do with the fruits of our research. With our new mailing list notification format we have not changed this one bit. we are giving out more information now in our advisories than we ever have before, so we are certainly not witholding anything. Quite the opposite. Over the past few months we have expanded our overview sections that allow non-technical people to scope the problem. we have expanded our detailed technical discussions of issues, many times including detailed source code examples. And, I think most importantly, we have greatly expanded our solutions discussion so that people are not always reliant on vendor patches. we need many was to mitigate vulnerabilities because there are many environments.
The advisory notifiction format we are using has about the same amount of information as the paraphrased advisories that Elias posted for the latest Microsoft advisories and the same amount of information that some other researchers post in their advisories. This is more than enough information to decide if the issue at hand effects you and you need to dive deeper into our analysis.
What we are doing is adding more information than we have in the past and we are adding it on our web site. There are plans to add much more. we think that our web site and its accompanying web technology is the best place to expand our free information dissemination into the future. we have many ideas in store that I know people will appreciate. Of course, notifications of important information releases will be made to mailing lists that accept them so everyone who wishes to can read and use the information. we may even set up our own notification list if there is a demand for that.
We have stayed away from cluttering up our advisories with marketing gorp, like ads about our services or ads about our company like many commercial research teams do. we pride ourselves in publishing our research on an academic level and always have. This will not change.
IF YOU ARE A SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR, OR EVEN AN ORDINARY USER, YOU NEED TO READ OUR SECURITY NOTICE. THIS AFFECTS ALL COMPUTERS RUNNING WINDOWS 95, 98, NT, MILLENIUM AND 2000. IT ALSO AFFECTS LINUX, FREEBSD, NETBSD, HPUX, AMIGA, MACOS X, BeOS, C-64, SCANT-TRON AND PALM-OS COMPUTERS.
PLEASE FOLLOW THIS LINK TO OUR SITE TO VIEW THIS IMPORTANT SECURITY BULLETION:
Slashdot Mirror
I don't know if ellison is wrong or not, but I know you are wrong.
Of course everyone can't keep him around for their own database, but you could pay employees to learn how to use the product for less than Oracle support
But if your employer chooses to fight you in court over it, your only chance is to match or surpass their spending unless you get a fair judge/jury.
What you need to ask is, how much is it worth to you. You won't get a decent legal *opinion* for less than a few thousand dollars, and even then, you'll have to look hard to find a good lawyer specializing in intellectual property. (Most of them work for big companies.) That's before you'll even know whether it's worth it to fight.
The sense that you are hesitant to walk away from your job over this project suggests to me that it probably isn't worth seeing a lawyer about
Honesty is always the best policy, and the only reason not to pursue it is if you have used knowledge gained from your current employer, and that doesn't include generic things like programming experience. Basically, whatever is specifically labelled as proprietary information: business strategy, proprietary code, market information.
Because this product *exactly* matches the requirements of your employers client, I'd guess you either used proprietary information, in which case, I'd suggest turning it over to your employer, and possibly being rewarded for your foresight, or else it is a significantly generic application that you have a good case if you wish to keep it to yourself.
All I can say with certainty is that we need more information to be able to give any worthwhile advice
Java is worse.
(see minimum hardware requirements)
I, personally, wasn't even aware that there was a trademarked SSH brand company, and when I went to search for an ssh implementation to install, and found that Tatu Ylonen had registered a company with that name, I found it quite brazen to name his company after the protocol, as if someone had chosen to name their networking company TCP/IP (R).
I don't know the facts, and couldn't find them anywhere in this thread. Did Tatu Ylonen develop the ssh protocol? Did he coin the term "ssh" or "secure shell"?
If so, I feel he has the right to enforce his trademark, just as Linus Torvalds has the right to enforce the use of the term "Linux". And, although, I'd like it if he were as reasonable as Linus (i.e. with Red Hat, Debian, Slackware, etc.), it is his right to utilize trademark law for his own benefit.
That said, it is obvious that the letter posted to the openssh dev mailing list is belligerent and inflammatory; and that his intent is to "create" evidence to defend his trademark in court and to justify his actions (or intent). He is not only creating proof of defense of the trademark, but attempting to convince others (as well as himself) of the material value of "ssh" as a trademark that is not, at least in my mind, actually there, and to plant artificial statistics in the minds of "witnesses" that would otherwise be uncorraborated.
As evidence, I submit my suspicion that the figure of 180 employees is bullshit.
it'd be like someone trying to trademark "door"
not GNU, but still open source.
working on Eyes Wide Shut.
Judging from the employment opportunites at crossgain, they're developing for Unix.
I'd like set up a non-profit company to develop my for-profit products, and then write off all my R&D as contributions to a non-profit organization.
You do know that Verio *is* Network Solutions and Register.com is their competitor, right?
The graft he talks about has already made it a government of the corporations. The federal reserve bows to Wall Street. Food and drugs are regulated, yes, to protect the public saftey, but primarily to keep the oligopolies in power. Even environmental law exercises favoritism about when it will look the other way and where it will probe.
Someone mentioned Monsanto above. Ever wonder who Monsanto's competitors are?
Ludicrously enforced copyright and patent laws will be the death of freedom on the net, before anything else. And lets not forget, internet porn was *highly* subsidized by the government and justified by the media. Remember all the 'when VCRs first came out' analogies?
poncy sure sounds like something an artsy type would say.
Daemon: "Maybe. As long as the numbers aren't very big."
Professor: "That shouldn't be a problem for this instance. "When can you have it done?"
Daemon: "Well, um..."
Professor: "Nevermind. What's critical is that you can process large amounts of data."
Daemon: "I can serve up small amounts as fast as you can ask for them."
Professor: "Moreover, it is vital that this information not fall into the wrong hands."
Daemon: "You can count on me there."
Professor: "Got any games?"
Does anyone remember what networking was like before TCP/IP gained acceptance. RFCs, open specs, and agreement between vendors.
Sooner or later someone is going to have to #define constants
tar -xvzf foo.i386.tar.gz /dir/to/foo /usr/local/bin/foo
ln -s
There are way more palistinians in Israeli occupied territory than there was in 1968. & in Israel proper.
The way you beat a bully is you knock him down, wait for him to stand up, knock him down again and keep at it till he stays down and cries uncle. That means you kick him out of kuwait and say don't do it again. You ever trained an animal? Same thing. If you beat a dog the day after he pees on the carpet, he forgets what it was for, and eventually will bite. ps. he never made a nuke. But its really easy to put an embargo on enriched uranium and atari 2600s without restricting food and medicine.
what were the profits for shell/texaco, exxon, chevron, bp/amaco last year?
fyi, what you are doing is called trolling, and 15 year old kids do it for free.
hi weld
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:24:53 -0500
c T1oN...,D0ntUNoW??
From: Weld Pond
To: BUGTRAQ@SECURITYFOCUS.COM
Subject: @stake Advisory Notification Format
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
I think everyone out there knows that we are committed to full disclosure and the concept of freely available security advisories. Many vendors do not issue bulletins after we report problems to them, even after they subsequently fix the problems. Without advisories from independant researchers there is no check on product vendors. This is a service that we give to the security community because we think it is the right thing to do with the fruits of our research. With our new mailing list notification format we have not changed this one bit. we are giving out more information now in our advisories than we ever have before, so we are certainly not witholding anything. Quite the opposite. Over the past few months we have expanded our overview sections that allow non-technical people to scope the problem. we have expanded our detailed technical discussions of issues, many times including detailed source code examples. And, I think most importantly, we have greatly expanded our solutions discussion so that people are not always reliant on vendor patches. we need many was to mitigate vulnerabilities because there are many environments.
The advisory notifiction format we are using has about the same amount of information as the paraphrased advisories that Elias posted for the latest Microsoft advisories and the same amount of information that some other researchers post in their advisories. This is more than enough information to decide if the issue at hand effects you and you need to dive deeper into our analysis.
What we are doing is adding more information than we have in the past and we are adding it on our web site. There are plans to add much more. we think that our web site and its accompanying web technology is the best place to expand our free information dissemination into the future. we have many ideas in store that I know people will appreciate. Of course, notifications of important information releases will be made to mailing lists that accept them so everyone who wishes to can read and use the information. we may even set up our own notification list if there is a demand for that.
We have stayed away from cluttering up our advisories with marketing gorp, like ads about our services or ads about our company like many commercial research teams do. we pride ourselves in publishing our research on an academic level and always have. This will not change.
weld
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.0
ib3tUth1nKtH15ofF3r5U50M3/3-leet/++m345Ur30fPr0t3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
IF YOU ARE A SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR, OR EVEN AN ORDINARY USER, YOU NEED TO READ OUR SECURITY NOTICE. THIS AFFECTS ALL COMPUTERS RUNNING WINDOWS 95, 98, NT, MILLENIUM AND 2000. IT ALSO AFFECTS LINUX, FREEBSD, NETBSD, HPUX, AMIGA, MACOS X, BeOS, C-64, SCANT-TRON AND PALM-OS COMPUTERS.
PLEASE FOLLOW THIS LINK TO OUR SITE TO VIEW THIS IMPORTANT SECURITY BULLETION:
http://bigsecuritycompany.com /advisories
OR VISIT ONE OF OUR MIRRORS:
http://pocketstrum.harvard.edu
http://the-loft.com
Such a misfit, so misunderstood, poor unloved baby.