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The Kid Who Wouldn't Be King (UPDATED)
From the Daily Breeze:
"Manhattan Beach Unified School District Superintendent Jerry Davis said school and district officials stand behind the suspension. 'There's always consequences for actions," Davis said. "We believe it disrupted homecoming activities ..." (It would be interesting to know if the Unified School District knows that George Washington refused the offer of the Contintental Congress to be the first American King.)
"Suspension papers signed by Griffiths and the school principal charged that the 17-year-old Griffiths 'disrupted school activities or otherwise willfully defied the valid authority of supervisors, teachers, administrators, school officials or other school personnel engaged in the performance of their duties.' Other offenses that warrant suspension include gun possession, drug use, theft or destruction of school property, and physical violence."
"Griffiths was a member of one of the six couples who lined up with their parents during halftime of last Friday's football game to hear the royal announcements. When his name was called as homecoming king, he placed his crown on the field and walked away. He later said he had planned all along to make some sort of statement about the warped value system in schools like his (Mira Costa High School) if he was elected king, but he never dreamed he would win. 'The idea of winning was so far-fetched,' he said. 'I knew I'd have a fair amount of support from the downtrodden, my friends. I'm just trying to get more people to think about and re-evaluate what we value and if [contests like] homecoming should be encouraged.'" says the Daily Breeze story.
He returned to school this week. His parents are considering legal action to force the school to expunge the suspension from his academic record. Griffiths isn't a classic victim. He was definitely poking the bear, but in a good cause. He said he welcomed any and all media attention because he wants to use the spotlight to encourage people to think about the way schools promote popularity contests and pit students against one another. "They martyred me," he said. "Which was a great thing."
Instead of a suspension, Griffiths ought to get an award for challenging the insane culture facing so many individualistic kids in American schools. Students like Griffiths have few if any Constitutional rights. They have no privacy or right to due process, and are routinely sent home, suspended, or forced into "special education" programs for dressing oddly, speaking honestly, or playing the wrong kind of computer games. As he was trying to point out, the pressure to conform, be normal and popular is enormous -- creating environments that are hostile and alienating to people outside the mainstream. This ethos has hit bright, idiosyncratic and creative kids especially hard, as the volumes of Hellmouth messages testify so eloquently.
So here's to Patrick Griffiths, who deserves better than his own school. He's a hero in the classic American sense, and in the country's best traditions of thinking freely, daring to be different, and willing to pay the price.
Author's Note: The source material for this column was the Daily Breeze paper linked to above, a wire story, and about 20 e-mails, including two from local reporters urgingme to write about this. Reading over this now I can see there is a paragraph that should have quotes from the Daily Breeze [note: since corrected -- t]. I didn't do it because I probably used material from the wire story and/or because it was linked. The comments, opinions and language about the story are obviously mine, since the point was to write about the issues he raised and the conformity question, which the paper and the others didn't raise.
Personally, I didn't even attend my high school's prom. My friend, who is also an avid Quaker, also abstained. Not surprisingly, if there was a Superlative in the yearbook that said "Most Likely to become an artillery expert/go Columbine", then we'd both win it.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Don't run if you don't plan to accept. I would have accepted and given a speech rather than ungratefully ignoring the attention of the student body.
This kid was just plain selfish. He could have given everyone a voice who couldn't speak for themself, and instead he wanted to show off that he could walk away.
A suspension, however, is totally out of line for this sort of thing. He should have been escorted out and a new king chosen on the spot. But a suspension is uncalled for.
But then again, about half of this is plagiarized word-for-word from the original article.
Give it up Jon. You're getting lamer and lamer.
Perhaps this Patrick Griffith needs a dictionary to learn what the word martyr means.
He wasn't burned at the stake, he wasn't stoned, he wasn't crucified for his beliefs.
He got a simple suspension. Deal with it.
As a new parent, I'm note sure if I'm fretting or looking forward to things like this. Woe is the school department that pulls this kind of stuff on my kid. I'll be ready to stomp down on them... hard.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
He's going to sue to get this off his high school record? You know how much your high school record matters in life? How about zero...
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
a kid comes along and wants to reject these values, and not only can they not accept it, but they fear it enough to pronounce him guilty of "disrupting school activities" which of course is usually code for "we didn't like the way he looked" but in this case has been expanded to "we didn't like the way he thought."
pezpunk
Internet killed the video star,
i could live a little longer in this prison
Schools have no business taking disciplinary action against students that fail to produce the correct theatre for them. If they think they were embarrassed by his rejecting the crown, I imagine they realize they've made a more serious mistake now.
Also, I hope the administrators at Mira Costa are named personally in the suit, as well. Their disruptive activity by failing to use appropriate channels to "express dissatisfaction" with this student should not go unpunished.
I went to a highschool very similar to that for a year. The biggest thing those for those redneck was who was going to be homecoming king and queen. So they could look real pretty for hteir parents and give off the illusion that they conformed to all their parents wants and hopes.
In my opinion this is a violation of his first Amendment right to freedom of speach. He didn't wanted the award and expressed it through his action of putting the crown on the ground. Just another example of some lowlife highschool teachers making them all look like idiots.
"Can't sleep. Clowns will eat me"
Guess what Patrick, when you go to college, and when you get a job, the popularity thing still goes on.
While there are a few rare prodigies that can be successful with an abrasive personality (Gates, Jobs), most successful people learn to deal well with others.
Humans are social animals, descended from apes, being influened by popularity is in our genes. I guess the only real solution is to withdraw into a computer generated world...
Oh wait, we're on Slasdot.
Apparently there was a joke movement to get *ME* of all people to be homecoming king (started by The Assimilators For The In-Crowd). It sprouted into a real effort. Luckily, I was able to decline all nominations. The HC king ended up being the starting TE of the football team. Figures.
Thus sprach DrQu+xum, SID=218745.
DrQu+xum: Proof that the lameness filter doesn't work.
I try to place myself in his shoes. Part of me says this is a really good thing but another part says that pissing on someone elses parade is a sucky thing to do. Geeks really should pitty those who think polularity contests are good things. I know I'd be sad if the only big thing that ever happened to me was being voted homecoming king in highschool. I guess I have a whatever-floats-your-boat attitude. I opted out. Didn't even know that was a lame-o homecoming king.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Most of the slashdot article is a word-for-word, unattributed copy of the original article - Slashdot may want to ask it's lawyers to explain the term "copyright violation" and any real journalist to explain "plagarism". Hope you've got a good legal defense fund with all the Andover/VA money...
Why would a Quaker attend prom anyway? Aren't Quakers forbidden by their religion from dancing?
Sorry, couldn't resist the pun. Feel free to mod me down. My karma is maxed out anyway.
and didn't take the prize money, would I get arrested?
What an utter load of crap. Sounds like he got suspended because he made the school administrators look like the fools they seem to be.
disrupted school activities or otherwise willfully defied the valid authority of supervisors, teachers, administrators, school officials or other school personnel engaged in the performance of their duties.
Way to go. Get an early start preparing the kid for the kind of open-ended "don't interfere with authority" laws he will experience as an adult. In 15 years, when the no-knock warrantless search comes based on the flimisiest excuse for probable cause, he'll already know just how far over to bend.
-- In the future, everyone will code Perl for 15 minutes. --
It's to point out how trivial this kid's 'offence' was in relation to the other things that would get a kid suspended.
The kid's actions are slightly reminiscent of John Carlos and Tommy Smith at the '68 Olympics, although I'm sure he wasn't afraid of being picked off by a sniper.
Free speech has its place, and must be protected. I applaud this high schooler for his display of non-violent civil disobedience.
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Gort! Klatu Barata Nikto!
Good to see that people can make a statement in school without greasing a bunch of kids in the process.
I think it says a lot about the student body that an outcast kid can play their social game for a couple of weeks and win the Homecoming King title. Talk about fickle! They deserved to have their precious title soaked in venom and forced back down their throats.
-Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.
this nonsense with homecoming kings and queens.
In our boys boarding schools, every boy is a queen.
Yes he got everyones attention, and this way he brings it into the public eye.
If he accepted the crown and just gave a small speech, the differencehe made might not have been as profound.
I dont think he is a Hero, I just think he did what he thought was right, if that makes someone a hero, we are in a sad state of affairs..
Jeremy
I think Katz is listing the other offences that you can get expelled for, not saying that the student actually did any of those things.
Unless I'm mistaken, bestiality is against the law in most states. He's lucky he just got suspended -- he could have been clawed to death.
Does Katz seriously believe that his commentary about the suspension of Patrick Griffiths won't be noticed as the wholesale, unattributed lifting of somebody else's work that it is?
Open Source is about the willing participation of creators in the distribution, modification, and enhancement of their work. We do not take; we accept what is freely given.
MacOS, Windows, BeOS, GNOME, KDE: they're all just Xerox copies
The list of other offences weren't for Giffiths, it was intended to show what offences actually warrant a suspension and contrast it with this ridiculous situation.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
She said that if she were chosen, she would shave her head. Guess what happened.
It was really interesting. She was chosen, she "accepted the honor," but the evidence was there, staring you in the face: if you're prepared to tailor your appearance to popular demand, then you too can win these contests. She just put it in a different light, in a very intentional and thought -provoking way.
I hope it wasn't just those of us that were already thinking about the system that found this situation meaningful and informative. I hope a few other people - the ones who thought the whole thing was a joke - got the point too.
[|]
I'd just like to say that this kid is mature well beyond his years. To be able to stand up like that with enormous peer pressure and then taking things in stride when he got suspended, especially with all the media attention. I can't believe this kid's so calm.
It was simply listing the other infractions that warrant suspension (for comparison), I'm pretty sure it was not claming that this person was GUILTY of any of these other infractions.
Quoted from the end of the article:
They martyred me," Griffiths said. "Which was a great thing."
I think that quote is huge. Without the suspension, without the school officials refusing to change, and without the media attention, his voice would have never been heard.
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"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
Re-read the article and use your brain BEFORE you post. The other offenses that warrant suspension were listed to show how RIDICULOUS the students suspension was. NOT to show that gun possession and drugs were ridiculous offenses to suspend someone for, nor to imply the student was guilty of them.
Although Patrick's actions may have no effect whatsoever on Konsensual Amerikan Kulture, my pocket-protector is off to him.
The American High School system is specifically engineered to produce jock-worshipping, money-grubbing, sophisticated servants
The only thing that we learn from history is that nobody learns anything from history.
True, but no one would have heard about it. When making a political statement it is important to be seen, and heard. How does one win the congressional election? By out spending all the other candidates in advertising.
The suspension was probably more an act of self defense by an insecure school official that a response to a legitimate threat to the learning atmosphere. How dare someone make a political statement at my school. What would happen if the students realized they have more power in the school than me? Although extreme there are probably the thoughts running through the official's heads. They couldn't tolerate not having control. And to think, the reason America has public schools is to ensure that we have an education so we participate in a democracy
Superintendent Davis said that if Griffiths didn't like the homecoming court selection process, he could have spoken to student government leaders, the school newspaper or any administrator on campus.
"There are many opportunities for any student to express dissatisfaction at Mira Costa," he said. "(Griffiths) was within the organization that plans homecoming. At no time did he express dissatisfaction with the process or the program. That's where it should have been expressed and dealt with."
Griffiths said he figured renouncing his crown at the homecoming game would make the strongest statement
So, he got suspended for voicing his opinion publicly. Sure, it was probably a disruption to the ceremony to have him walk away. If I were handing out the crown, I'm sure I wouldn't have known how to address the crowd at that point--but to suspend him? That's a bit much.
Besides, if he had spoken out to administrators, what would've happened? He would've been removed from the team he was on, someone else elected, and no one would've given it a second thought--except him. His voice would've been silenced before it could be heard.
-Llew "I've wrestled with reality for years, and, I'm proud to say, I won" Silverhand
Reminds me when we wrote in Richard Nixon as a candidate for class presient and he actually won. They had to do another election.
This kid successfully protested an entire system without any violence or personal attacks whatsoever and managed to get more publicity and widespread acknowledgement of it because he did execute it so well. I can't remember a single person in my high school that would have been able to succeed in that way.
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
Sweet Athene, you went to all that effort to make a protest, and now you want them to expunge the record? Are you NUTS?
By all that's holy, I'd demand a copy and get it FRAMED. I'd write a manefesto railing against the poverty of culture in highschool, staple copies of the record to the top, and include it in my college applications.
Do you understand how good this could make you look to college admissions officers?? (At the good schools -- Podunk State would be scared, but MIT would love it.)
I wish I'd thought of this when applying to college!
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
He was essentially signed up to be part of the entertainment, then walked away. The closest equivalent I can think of is comitting yourself to play a gig at a party, then showing up to the party and telling the host that you're not going to play the for them after all. The comparison to George Washington doesn't apply at all because, as far as I know, Washington didn't apply for the job.
If his motives were for real (ideals and all that) then I fully support this guy and (as he's quoted) think that this "martyrdom" is useful in making its point.
Realistically, I think people are going to focus on the suspension, rather than his actions, though. Just keep in mind that the ultimate plan was to provoke a response.
- Jonathan
On the other hand if he wrote a paper or letter to the editor protesting the Homecoming King/Queen status quo I would applaud him and stand behind his personal conviction.
To pull cheap stunts is wimpy. It was ignoble to play along only to drop out at the last (possible) moment.
Don't pull a stunt, take a stand.
Now hiring experienced client- & server-side developers
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Unless, you are stating his beliefs poorly, as in he is an avid player of the game Quake.
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
And of course "normal social skills" is defined by who exactly? I guess I'm falling for your expert troll, but frankly I would rather not have "normal social skills"...
An example of "normal social skills" at play... My 16 year old step daughter is being pilloried by her "friends" at the moment. Why? Because the guy that she likes has a new girlfriend.
At no point has she said anything nasty about this girl, nor has she said anything nasty about him. But she is being treated as an outcast because of this.
If that is normal then I don't want to be...
Zwack
-- Under/Overrated is meta-moderation, and therefore is Redundant.
Is it just me, or have individualistic kids always been shut out, made fun of, or otherwise hassled? I'm bothered by the fact that JonKatz constantly takes it upon himself to bring these incidents to our attention, as though he's the spokesperson for legions of down-trodden teenage weirdos. I had it tough in high school too because I chose to be different, and I do think that schools need to do a better job of making an acceptable learning environment for all students.
However, the root of this problem is not with high school administrators, but with parents who do not teach their children by example that teasing and harassment of those who are different from them are unacceptable behaviors. I hate to perpetuate the old saying that "there's no such thing as bad people, just bad parents," but at least in this case I believe it's true.
I take comfort in the fact that the three kids who made my teenage years so unpleasant by spreading rumors that I was gay and making fun of my choice of hair and clothing styles now work for the local septic tank pumping company, while I'm pursuing a degree and working part time at an internet startup.
-- Have you ever noticed that at trade shows, Microsoft is always the company that is handing out stress balls?
Mr Katz,
You as a journalist should know that plagiarising another journalist's work without giving any attribution is not only unethical but also illegal. The second, third, and fourth paragraphs are taken verbatim or with one or two words changed from the 'Daily Breeze' article without any attribution at all. I realize that you, Mr Katz, believes that no one has any rights to anything non-physical they produce such as music, movies, or the written word.. However it is still the law that you cannot take someone else's writings and claim them as your own.
-- Greg
Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
In other words, its fine to express disatisfaction when no one will listen and only a small group will hear. But if you want to make a statement that the whole school will hear, you aren't allowed to express your opinion in the means that you desire.
Its people like superintendent Davis that want to destroy freedom of speech.
No violence was involved. No insults were involved. Nothing libelous or slanderous was said. The kid made a statement by not saying anything and walking away and the school administration isn't mature enough to just deal with it. They feel the need to retaliate like spurned high school socialites.
have a day,
-l
I agree that perhaps the word "martyr" was a bit strong, but you have to give him credit. I hope he didn't get any crap from the students at his school, hope they don't dump a bucket of pigs' blood on him. Then he might have really gotten mad and done something with pyrotechnics..
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No sig
Are they going to respect his decision? Are they going to listen to what he has to say as the official elected homecoming king?
Or are they going to remove his title because he won't play by the rules.
If this kid wants to push it, I'm pretty sure he could set a decent case up in court against the school. That is, if they decide to remove his title.
I totally agree with this guy, I think what he has done, and is doing is awesome.
Good work!
i had the real first post but refused to accept it.
he was on KROQ this morning and he said that they were passing out flyers in his absence to tell what happened. I don't know why they suspended him, even after he repeatedly said he didn't want to win.
they even tried to get him to sign his rights away by signing a paper that said any activity deamed disruptive would allow the school to expel him. he didn't sign it, thank god.
JediLuke
JediLuke
-Do or Do Not, There is no Try
At least in America you (theoretically) have constitutional rights - in Britain we have no such thing! If you are accused of anything, from theft to drug abuse, there is no trial or appeal: the school hands out punishment as it sees fit. The only time this changes is if the offence is serious enough to warrant getting the police involved.
I fully agree with Griffiths in not speaking out before, while organising the event - if you do so, you are kicked out of the organisations you are complaining about, not listened to! The only way to get your views heard is to play along until you have a chance to speak out as he did. It was people like him who changed my school to allow us to vote on at least some parts of our organisation, and the fact that parents like his will support their children rather than believe every word the teachers say.
I, for one, cannot wait until I leave school forever in 6 months time. And I only hope that when I have children of my own, I will back them up against the system as my mother has me.
Hmmm... Get a clue. Those are "other offenses that *warrant* suspension," not the other offenses for which *that student* was suspended.
While they are often thought to be the scum of the Earth, in times like this, lawyers can be nice to have on your side in a time like this =)
I am !amused.
Ok lets go over this really slow for those of you who don't quite get it. He was not accused of any of the bad "other offenses" These where listed as other things that someone could be suspened for. The point of this list was to point out that in the mind of the people who are going after this kid that refusing the Homecoming King title == gun possession, drug use, theft or destruction of school property, and violence. This is why this stupid the kid is being pounded on because he does not fit their image of a "normal" kid. And they wonder why we grow up and hate everybody.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
despite pretending not to care, i doubt there's a single high school outcast who didn't pray to god every day hoping to be cool for just 5 minutes. (tip o' the hat to SLC Punk!)
pezpunk
Internet killed the video star,
i could live a little longer in this prison
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Oh wait, people in public school and people under 18 don't have any rights.
--
you are not what you own
it's a sig, wtf?
The guy was suspended for 'disrupting school activities'.
He did not do anything violent, nor drugs and was not in possession of a weapon. The document states that for placing the crown on the ground and walking away, he received a punishment that would be given for offences such as possession of drugs or a weapon, damage to school property or physical violence.
This guy did none of this just damaged a couple of egos. It was a peaceful demonstration.
Slashdot Beta should die a painful death.
Hmm...I was one of those geeky kids in school - but in retrospect, I tend to agree - it's one thing to make a statement - it's another when making that statement wanders into other peoples space. However, I disagree that he deserved suspension - a lot worse gets down by kids that don't get suspended.
The Game Guy
I caught an interview with this kid on Kroq this morning. Apparantly they rescinded the suspension. Patrick said they claimed to be doing it so it would not end up on his 'Permanent Record'. He responded that he would rather have fought the suspension in court. The school officials didn't like this prospect, and it is Patrick's belief that the reason they rescinded the suspension was because they didn't want to lose in court.
Suspension for declining an honor? On the one hand, there comes a time that we need to swallow our pride and accept something we do not want (or do not deserve), for the greater good of humanity, but to be suspended (high school equivelance for banishment) for it...
I have long held the opinion that a student's personal rights are stripped from them as they enter the school property..and this is just another example of it...man, I'm glad I finished HS when I did.
"Jesus saves, but everyone else in a 10 foot radius takes full damage from the fireball."
I read a similar story in the local Easy Reader newspaper about this incident. There was another, I thought, disturbing story in the same town, Manhattan Beach. A middle school student was found with some pot, and suspended for five days. But when he returned to school, the principal _ordered_ the other students to shun him at lunch and nutrition(?) for the rest of the trimester, and ordered the student not to joke or make light of the incident. Free speech anyone?
While in high school (as a senior) I refused to take part in the traditional hazing ritual prepared for the newcomers. I practically had to elbow my way out of the private meeting.
As if that wasn't enough, "the board" organized a public meeting where all the senior students were gathered to the school hall and all those who refused to go along with the hazing had to publicly confront "the board" (and, as planned, public humiliation). I and seven other students (I still consider those seven Christian student union members standing on my [atheist] side as friends) were driven out of the hall accompanied by jeers.
As if that was not enough. I got shit from some teachers for refusing to take part in a ritual involving electroshocking and smearing shit on 1st year students.
" Yes, you can overcome your social problems."
Or you can overcome societies problems by showing how screwed up it is, just as this kid did.
Ranessin
Umm, I didn't pay a lot of attention to this in high school, as I hung out with the band and role playing cliques, but emperically it's the most popular guy.
There is an election in the fall, at the high school footbal (American Footbal that is) homecoming game, the announcement of the winner is made, and the homecoming king and queen are announced.
The a screen is dragged around them while they consumate their victory.
No, wait, that last part is from a video I rented, Homecoming sluts.
Don't believe it? Try going into a linux channel on IRC and asking a 'newbie' question...If you're lucky, you'll just get kicked. Usually you'll be insulted and then kick banned...
Try asking Tom Christisen anything about perl...
Etc...
Most every group is guilty to some degree of the type of terrible 'in-crowd' behaviour that JonKatz always attributes to 'the Jock' types in High School...It just manifests itself slightly differently in different forums.
there's a big difference between "illicit" and "elicit." i suggest you look those big fancy words up before you try to use them again.
2 things:
1. People under 18 years of age have no rights. Constitutional amendments notwithstanding.
2. Once you walk onto public school property, you forfeit all rights you may have had. Your locker is subject to search, you're subject to questioning without an attorney.
So *if* he had any rights in the first place, he forfeited them the instant he walked onto that campus.
Kit
This is just the tip of the iceberg. I was an A/B level honors student as well as being in the JROTC program etc at a school where Jerry Davis was principal. Generally a smart and responsible guy. But because i refused to 'play ball' many times my record was marked by Jerry Davis and the other administrators.
I would go against the administration whenever I had a chance and they hated it. I would write letters to the editor of the school paper and make other statements when the moment was right. Never disruptive or disrespectful but always pointed.
The result? I was labelled as a problem child and under suspicion. They even told me once 'Just do not publically go against the administration and everything will be fine.' It even went so far as to them threatening to not let me graduate!( As if it were in their power, a fact I pointed out many times ).
Overall, this school district ( Jerry Davis and others ) do not so much hate individuals but rather hate individuals who do not agree with their social program. These are schools that literally have barbed wire fencing around them to keep students in, that discourage any kind of free discussion of school policy etc and are so patronizing to their student bodies that it makes one want to puke.
Until public educators understand that students are PARTNERS in this process we call learning and not SUBJECTS, these sorts of incidents will continue to happen and the truly smart seeds will flee to home schools and private schools. We treat our children like criminals, give them no say in their daily lives and then wonder why they disdain participatory democracy. Its ridiculous.
Anyhow, as someone who has actually EXPERIENCED Jerry Davis I will say that this story, while awesome in that it is getting so much attention, is nothing in comparison to the daily things the thhis administration does in the name of 'education'.
Personally, I don't think we are doing kids any good by trying to make High School fair & uncompetitive. It ain't that way in the real world folks. This whole 'let's not keep score at soccer games' and such - or no dodge ball cause it breed compeition...well..that's what the US is about (unless you are a democrat - then it would be about turn us into a socialist society) Life ain't gonna get fairer as they get older - in fact, it's going to get worse - a LOT worse.
To quote one famous Leon 'Always this hard'
The Game Guy
Were I a parent, I would congradulate myself on good parenting skills were my child to pull such a stunt.
I'd tell my kid how proud I was that he understood the troubles of mindless conformity.
The cake is a pie
An example of "normal social skills" at play... My 16 year old step daughter is being pilloried by her "friends" at the moment. Why? Because the guy that she likes has a new girlfriend.
There are a couple of things to be said about this. First of all, you don't know what the real story is. No, you don't.
Second of all, this is High School. Kids are still developing, and they can be mean and cruel. What else is new?
In any case, what does this have to do with the point? You think everyone should be shy and afraid to interact with other people? Or do you equate the ability to interact easily with other people with being mean and cruel? That is simply bigotry/jealousy/sour grapes.
I was a geek in high school. I know it sucks. But I don't blame others, I blame myself. I worked hard to overcome my shyness and social awkwardness. It's stupid to try and justify social problems as "not worse, just different".
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I can't help but think that the entire school system is stuck in a 1950's attitude. I remember a couple of years ago when my high school had a homecomeing King/Queen kissing contest. It was stopped the next year because of the associated embarassment that the event caused some people. To be involuntarily singled out in fron of a crowd of peers isn't exactly pleasant, even if you are pressured to kiss someone who you might not be interested in.
So why should students be happy to be singled out as the 'most popular' or whatever the homecomeing system represents, when the school is typically fractured into a bunch of cliques, and the people who are chosen are typically those associated with the most powerfull cliques, hence the people typically chosen are football players and cheerleaders.
It's probably intended to be a disciplinary ploy along the lines of, "See those beautifull people, see how they fit in, be like them, fit in, and be happy". So by refusing the crown this student has implicitly destroyed the appearance that all is well at the high school, the disgruntled student is no longer a minority. Furthermore, he has legitimized non-cooperation of students in general by brazenly flaunting an established (read archaic) tradition in front of the entire school.
The administrators are probably dealing with massive amouts of parental attention in the form of phone calls and whatnot because of the incident. They're also more likely to have trouble dealing with students because there is a relief in the social pressure to stay in line.
OTOH this is exacly the kind of anti-hero behavior that is espoused by a lot of modern media, for example MTV's film Election (1999) where the character get uprorious cheers from the school assmebly when her presidential speech is "Don't vote for me". So don't be surprised if this incident is blamed on such media outlets, and there is a consequent policy swing to the right.
Cool friends aren't all they're cracked up to be. I straddled the line between the cool and uncool (at a private school) and quite frankly the in-crowd was boring. But not being harassed was a nice benefit. I certainly wouldn't have gone out of my way to give the finger to the in-crowd... it wouldn't have accomplished anything. They weren't bad people, they just were interested in different things... (never could have discussed linguistics or WWII with any of them for instance...)
I was a high school outcast and I would have killed to have been noticed 'less' rather than being considered cool by that bunch of losers that was the 'hip' crowd. If being considered cool meant having them look up to me, I'd sooner chop my own genitals off and eat them in front of a crowd.
Don't think that just because some outcasts really want to 'fit in' it applies to the rest of us. The entire concept of fitting in never appealed to me at all. And it still doesn't.
Bite my yammer.
So a guy at the top of the heap, Mr. Popular, decides it's wrong to win a popularity contest.
His friends are the downtrodden. If all his friends are downtrodden, how the hell did he get to be some damn popular huh?
Hanging out with the downtrodden, the geeks and freaks and oddballs as it were, does not get you elected homecoming king unless the school is comprised mainly of geeks, freaks, and oddballs.
(I myself am a geek, somewhat freakish, and definately an oddball). I seriously doubt that it is.
Still, I give him Kudos for standing up for what he believed in (if in fact, he's being honest and it's not just some publicity stunt or something).
The schools on the other hand... they're all out of control, all this 0 tolerance crap. I swear, the vast majority of school administrators out there these days are serious control freaks that really trip out on their power to make or break a student's life. We need some common sense for the new millenium people.
So, he gets suspended for disrupting an extracuriccular, non academic activity outside of shcool hours? Man, talk about petty and vindictive. All he did was poke eliteism in the eye. Sure, the diehard school boosters and their ilk were cheesed, but did this really disrupt school and students learning? Was it on the same level as fighting on school grounds?
Meanwhile, given what I read about the guy in the Daily Breeze, he sounds like a hard core eccentric. Its interesting and hopeful that his peers elected a stand out non-conformist guy like him. To me it sounds like the student body is a whole lot more mature and well adjusted than the adults running the place.
Maybe he didn't turn down the nomination because he didn't really want to seem full of himself... he didn't think he would win, and so being a nominee was no big deal... then he won and did what he felt was right... no fights broke out, he didn't curse or cause a scene... he walked away... i don't know about anyone else, but my mother always told me if you don't like the situation that i'm in and i have the option of walking away, to do so... the school went to far and even if he doesn't sue them... they have already done enough damage to themselves... and the reason his parents probably want this off his high school record is because college's get school records... i'd want it off mine too...
Just my two cents...
Krystalia
What the f*** is a 'Homecoming King' ?
I read the article, and still have no clue about this. It render all the article and discussion really poetic, but a little weird...
Anyone cares to explain it, or post a link ?
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Mira Costa High School needs a good kick in the butt. If you're local, call them at (310) 318-7337. Let Superintendant Gerald Davis know what you think of his decision (his extension is 5900). The only email given at the site for feedback is the webmaster's: webmaster@mail.manhattan.k12.ca.us.
.plan.
Some day I hope to have a
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
My suggestion to you is to go watch "welcome to the dollhouse".
This student Griffiths gives me hope. So did the Georgia high schooler suspended a few years ago for wearing a "Pepsi" shirt on a "Coca-Cola Day" at his high school (which had a sweetheart-monopoly deal with Coca-Cola).
These are minor acts of disobedience but they are performed for a purpose and provoke surprisingly harsh response. I think this is great. I see too many of my fellow boomers accept authority if it means being able to afford a certain lifestyle; they not only accept authority but then accept that authority trampling on the rights of others. We need more satire, more protest, more nonviolent disobedience, if it has a valid message. To the next high schooler who wants to get a point across about some stupidity or injustice you confront, go for it. Remind your parents' generation of what they claimed to stand for when they were younger, in case they've forgotten by now.
Dave
one of my friends, who defintely wouldnt be considered to be homecoming material asked a bunch of friends to vote for him. We did and he got to be royalty. After we found out the royalty we then voted again. we made up 'vote mike for homecoming' signs that the school pulled down. finally we piled in the gym and waited to see if mike won. he did. it was so great to see this dorky, pimply faced kid in a cape and crown that were too big for him. unlike this kid though he accepted, but accepting it is protest in itself.
He planned to disrupt homecoming, fucking over a good number of senior I imagine. So much for homecoming tradition!
It worked. If he wasn't prepared to get disciplinary action he had no business trying to makeing waves.
I am glad to know that our country's education system value the integrity of the student and their ability to think freely. How could they possible think that this is constitutional, let alone ethical. If this article tells the whole story, they should honestly be ashamed of themselves. Besides, I dont see anywhere in the school's handbook anything that mentions being suspended for not accepting a damn homecomnig crown. If it were me, I would have made sure I kicked it around a bit before accepting it. As much as I hate to admit it, Apple has a point - Think Different!
Intelligence is like four wheel drive, having it just means you'll get stuck in more remote places.
Or you can overcome societies problems by showing how screwed up it is, just as this kid did.
Right. Let's just blame society, that makes a lot of sense. It's society's fault that this kid is socially backward. We should eliminate all sports, because some kids are not athletic. We should eliminate dances because some kids are too shy or too socially awkward to get a date.
If everyone can't have fun, then no one shall have fun.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
His protest while making him happy was extremely unfair to the majority of students who enjoy such events. There is a lot of talk on /. that such events (popularity/beauty contexts etc.)should be stopped to protect the nerds. Sorry but the thought of stopping a process that 90% of the people enjoy in order to appease the 10% of people who dont enjoy it doesnt seem very democratic to me
Slashdot: Proof that a million monkeys at a million typewriters can create a masterpiece
i was doing my daily tooling on the netware tolken ring at our high school...go to the business lab and go to file->run->command.com
voila...in like flynn. well one day i got caught, and they wanted to suspend me, expell me if they could. here i was, only being curious not malicious, while other kids are getting beat up and their assailents get no punishment, and they wanted to expell me?
anyway they called in my father the next day, they told him, yada yada, then he asked me to step out. when i came back in they told me that nothing was going to happen and that i was to never do that again. a slap on the wrist basically.
well on the way home my dad told me that when i closed the door it went like this:
dad: so how do you know what he was doing?
admin: we have logs that log any wrong activity.
dad: may i see this?
admin: its been deleted
dad: ok, do you have a set of rules or contract that he signed saying this is an unacceptable activity?
vp: actually no.
dad: so basically you're telling me that you have no evidence and no rule for what he's done and you want to suspend him for 5 days out of school, possibly even look into expulsion?
vp: yes
dad: if you do that i will sue this district for everything. you will not even look unkindly upon my son, or you will hear from my lawyer.
needless to say it was cool, but there was more rules next year. sometimes all it takes is someone with a strong will to stand up, hell they prolly could have suspended me, but my dad made it plain as day that i had rights and without proof they had no case.
JediLuke
JediLuke
-Do or Do Not, There is no Try
During each school year, their is a Homecoming Dance which is usually associated with a Homecoming football game in which a weaker opponent is intentionally chosen so victory is all but assured. A King and Queen are elected by the student body for the occasion. They get nothing but "status" for the honor; they have no duties or responsibilites except to wear the crown. In this case, our hero refused to accept the crown. Off with his head.
I went to one high school dance, it sucked, so everyyear for prom about 10-15 of us threw a lan party. We had a lot more fun, saved some money, and diddn't have to put up with all the high school bull shit.
-- the computer doesn't want any beer, no matter how much you think it does. NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer.
The problem isn't that High School is unfair and competitive, the problem is that the values that are promoted are unrealistic. I presume that you have never watched MTV's Daria? Life isn't fair, but in the real work world, being able to plan for the long term, complete complex tasks, and make your boss look good are survival skills- not fashion, not football, not "popularity". High School values conformity and social acceptance to make hormone-charged teens easier to manage, not because it has any value in the real world.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Don't run if you don't plan to accept.
At most high schools, homecoming candidates are nominated by the student body, not the themselves. So it's quite likely this kid could have been elected against his will.
Give me a break.
I am a geek, and I was homecoming king. Yes I have great social skills, yes I was popular, and YES THE QUEEN WAS MY GIRLFRIEND.
But why spout off with crap like this? 99% of my fellow slashdotters would rather figure out if the grass on the football field is growing with all those big lights on, than particapate in what could only be seen as some ritual crap that no one knows how it got started in the first place. All it does is hurt ppl in the long run so why bother? Think about Rome before it fell... now look at us.
[Bush|Gore] were elected prez and at the inaugeration refused to take the oath, state that USian politics had degenerated into a meaningless mudslinging $$ raising popularity contest and leave? Would he be arrested for doing it?
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
More power to people who make up their own minds and have the courage to stick to their principles.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
I have trouble believing that the Nobel nomination committee will accept your submission.
There seem to be more than a few posts sympathizing with the "don't piss on somebody else's parade" and "don't participate if you don't support it" crowd. This is wrong. Patrick may have been able to sit out homecoming. But high school is a four year popularity contest that he can't avoid. By playing the game, winning, and rejecting it, he made a much stronger statement about the system than any of us losers who whined about fairness and popularity from the sidelines.
What's more, thousands of people are being forced to think about and discuss the value of an official popularity contest in our public schools. Somehow, this seems much more effective than my "I didn't go to prom/homecoming because..."
And finally, for the sticklers, did it say anywhere in the "rules" that it was forbidden to decline the "honor"?
Wait... you mean you still haven't joined the ACLU?
Seriously though Kudos to Patrick Griffiths for standing up for what he believes in. He may have gotten burned, but he made his point. Personally I would have kept my school record as is. I would have had the referral / suspension notice framed and hung on my wall. I would have copied it and stapled it to my resume and all college applications. Most Colleges actually encourage independent thought.
"Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know."
-- Ernest Hemingway
because eventually, time works it out so that the popular kids end up with the shit jobs.
My high school class displayed to me the full value of karmic justice as now I have a job I enjoy and the "cool kids" are now a bunch of nobodies.
I see one of these kids in the gym all the time, he doesn't recognize me and I overheard him talking to his buddy about his job moving furniture. Another kid I ran into is now a heroin addict and two others are in prison. I guess being cool was worth it eh?
Let's see, while I'm sure the two in prison (for armed robbery and attempted rape respectively) are getting laid by big bubba, I've got my choice of poontang on any given saturday. I'm glad I was a dork in high school, because now I'm king of the world ma!!!!!!!!!!!
If only one person in the audience questioned the lunacies in which they were participating for just half a second.... i'd say Griffith accomplished an admirable goal.
cheers,
ecc
I honestly dont know who pays you to type this nonsense. Assuming students have no Constitutional rights, privacy, or due process is ludicrous. The reality is that every student has these rights, just most willfully waive them to save time. Being a resident of California, where this particular event occurred, I can promise you that this student did not suffer any of these problems, unless he verbally agreed ahead of time.
Your uninformed views have no place in this story. If you have some huge desire to complain about the state of public schools, you might want to make an effort to educate yourself first.
California students have exactly the same privacy laws as California residents, unless it is determined that their privacy jeopardizes the safety of other students (ie. bomb threat, etc), which, if you think about it, is remarkably similar to the clause on legal unwarranted searches that apply to citizens in general.
Students do have due process, contrary to your statement. You yourself noted this when you said his parents are considering legal action. Isn't that due process? If schools were forced to handle disputes on every issue, they'd be pulling money away from education to put into a mess of legal issues; let the courts handle due process, not the schools.
If students are sent home, or suspended, it is only because they have violated a posted rule. This shouldn't shock or alarm anyone. If you break a rule, be ready to deal with the consequences.
playing the wrong kind of computer games. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? This is stupid. How the fuck is anyone going to know what computer games a particular student plays? Unless he's skipping class to play Quake 3 in the computer lab (which would constitute a suspension for skipping class), nobody's gonna have a clue that he plays any computer games.
Please, get a clue before you write this nonsense.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
I, too, was a member of that organization...not that I ever studied, I just got good grades. ;-) My senior year, when it came time to induct new members, I wore a scandalously short thrift-store dress from the 60's, it was hideous. I took great pleasure in embarrassing the girl I was pinning, and in walking across the stage in front of faculty/students/parents. I think some people were even videotaping it. In addition to playing the role of the lesbian in the school play, that was one of my shining moments as a geeky teen.
/."
"I'm not a bitch, I just play one on
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
Thanks!
/. posts I have read in quite a while.
That has to be one of the funniest
rosie_bhjp
A radio maverick jumps to internet only. The Future of Rock n Roll
I DID ask Tom Christiansen something about Perl...
And he was downright helpful.
But I HAD read the FAQ, and I had been lurking for 3 weeks straight, reading EVERY message in comp.lang.perl (on my employers dime, of course)
So what I'm saying is that I didn't just blunder in, but I studied on how to enter this "scene" gracefully.
To bring it back on Topic:The scorn and "US vs Them" mentality is present in any group/scene with the sentience to know that it is a group. So the question is "chicken vs. egg": does every group embody this "Us vs Them" view becuase it is forced upon us by a society driven by competition? i.e.- it's forced on us by the Jocks and its kill or be killed?
Or is it a natural by-product of specialization and focusing in on one mode of being?
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
The superintendents CV:
/ schoolplan00.htm
http://www.manhattan.k12.ca.us/jdavis.html
http://www.manhattan.k12.ca.us/schoolsites/mchs
We can only assume the addresses are intended to be @manhattan.k12.ca.us, not manhattan.k12.com, which bounces.
We might assume Jerry Davis' email to be
jdavis@manhattan.k12.ca.us or
gdavis@manhattan.k12.ca.us
but since the gdavis bounced, I vote for jdavis.
Have fun.
-- There is no sig line, only Zuul.
An impassioned speaker who truly has a moment to connect with his audience (and if they voted him in, he had that) could easily have made a powerful statement for the social underdogs.
If you care, you can make others do the same, if only for a moment. That might be all it takes sometimes.
Or I might be wrong. I've never been to his high school.
Yeah, go ahead and flame me. But, everyone including Katz is supportive of what he did. So am I a little. However, the article (which I can't get back to now for some reason) said that he had ample time to step down before hand. Each person could've declined nomination before hand. Ok, yeah he didn't think he'd win. But, he had this planned if he did. It was disruptive. Granted, I myself think homecoming is worthy of being disrupted, but you have to pay the price for actions. If the price is a two day suspension, then so be it. He wanted to make a statement. He did. I think he did it wrong. Oh sure, more attention is definately brought to this means of statement. But, was the point delievered? Did people understand? Or did they just think that this was yet another misguided youth with a bad attitude? I'm not disagreeing with what he did. I'm just trying to say that some methods don't work as well as others.
I guess what I'm thinking is that he was deceptive. I think honesty and integrity are important. He should have backed down from nomination and been honest about it then.
I will say that I do feel that his suspension should be off the record and that it should not be held against his work at school. (Make up tests, turn in assignements, etc.) But, perhaps a better form of disciplinary reaction would be to required him to compose an essay/report of why he did that. Instead of just throwing him out of school, find out why he did what he did. Just my $0.02
For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know.
USA. Land of the free, home of the brave.
A nice place where they put your right to education on hold because you won't be part of their theatrics and play 'homecoming king'.
But what is to come of it? Are coaches and football moms everywhere going to disband the Homecoming ritual in favor of a coding contest and school-wide Quake tourney? Will your school get more funding? Will cheerleaders give it up to nerds instead of 25-year old Neanderthals?
Protest is easy, it only takes a couple of minutes. Real change is hard.
This shows that you don't have to be intelligent to work at a school or hand out punishments. When I was in public high school, I hated going to class. I skipped all the time, even while maintaining decent grades. Two things happened. One was, in Maryland you lost credit after five unexcused absences. So, in a couple of classes, even though I had a B, they failed me.
The second was, they wanted to punish me for skipping class. So, guess what they did? They suspended me. Ouch! It really hurt to be suspended for SKIPPING CLASS.
Looks like they're using similar logic here... and that would be no logic. The school had no grounds to suspend him for refusing to be homecoming king. Would they have suspended him if he had just decided not to go to the homecoming football game? All the school should have done is picked up the crown and awarded it to the runner-up. That's what runners-up are for. If they did this to one of my kids (I can't believe I'm old enough to have kids, plural), I would be outraged.
-N
I went to an expensive, pretentious private school in New York instead of public school, and we didn't have any of this nonsense. Sure we had jocks, artists, nerds, hippies, etc. But everyone, including those above mentioned, hung out together. We all went to the same parties, hung out together in the hall, etc. Almost nobody was a social outcast of any kind, and yet comformity was almost nonexistent and was actually looked down upon.
My school was not normal. To get in, you had to pass their entrance exams and you had to be able to afford it. Not to toot my own horn, but you had to be an intelligent kid to be there. That, combined with the caliber of the teachers, created an environment where nobody looked down upon anyone else, and everyone was friends no matter who they were or what they were like. You could just as easily say that my core group of friends were the least popular kids in school as you could say that we were the most popular, because the word "popular" made my classmates' skins crawl. My best friends in school, who remain some of my closest friends today, included a 2 musicians, 1 artist, 1 jock/punk-rocker, 3 potheads, 2 nerds and myself, just to name a few. I was, of course, the computer geek. Everyone knew it, and nobody looked down upon me for it.
That was, of course, my second high school, where everyone was well-educated and knew how to behave. Don't get me started on my FIRST high school, which was a ski academy in Vermont, and consisted of a bunch of overly-competitive jocks. I, being the short kid who liked computers, obviously was not in a good situation there.
So what am I trying to say? Attention all young geeks: your problems are caused by stupid people. You are surrounded by stupid, uneducated people who do not know how to behave. They are acting purely on instinct, like our ape ancestors. These are the same people who will grow up and vote straight down party lines in every single presidential election because they don't have the brainpower to think independently. You are different. You think on your own. Pity them, because they are slaves to their homecoming crowns.
Course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
"We *need* royalty, dammit!" these loyalists demanded. "We need a means of fixing our place in the social ladder. How will we know where we stand if we don't have someone at the top?"
So the tradition of the high school homecoming was instituted. Essentially it's a weird ritual that revolves around the most important football game of the year for a given high school. For this football game, the former Homecoming Kings and Queens, former runners-up, and former wannabe Kings and Queens who all graduated from said high school years ago, return to revisit the glamour and pageantry of their high school years.
The entire school is encouraged through relentless banners, announcements, flyers, cheerleading shenanegans, and other inducements, to attend this marvellous football game, so that they might be one with the pathetic alumni who are also attending the game.
Somewhere in the midst of this pageant (sometimes during the halftime, sometimes before, sometimes after the game), the Homecoming King and Queen are announced. These young royals have undergone a grueling competition that stretches for weeks. The competition consists of being as cheerful and friendly as possible. Bonus points are given for aristocratic precidents (sons and daughters of influential families often do well), good looks (let's be serious, this is America), lack of intellectual rigor (this isn't student goverment, you know), and involvement in as many sports and extracurricular clubs as possible.
The King and Queen are crowned, the losers are downcast, the alumni laugh and clap, and everyone gets a thorough dose of training for what awaits them in college, when they'll all go through a similar version when they try for spots in fraternities and sororities.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
In my high school, there are over 3200 people, 800 some seniors. We of the geeky underworld are watched by three cameras during the mornings (strategically placed right where the social outcasts socialize with each other). We all got together and voted the exact same ballot for senior superlatives. That was out mark on the school. 6 of us managed to win one of like 14 categories. Jokes on everyone else now, all the populars/perfect people/etc were too damned apathetic/disorganized to make sure they won. Kudos to this kid. Unfortunatly our ballot stuffing for Homecomming King/Queen wasn't as successful.
Like the post above, my high school was a pretty decent place compared to some. There were 'cliques', but they weren't very hardcore and it was possible to belong to multiple groups. I was in the college prep classes, but I also played football and did theater. There were very few 1-to-1 correlations between belonging to one group and another, but instead a lot of cross-pollination.
;-)
On the football team, everybody was given some "-Dawg" related nickname. Names like "Junkyard-Dawg", "Higgy-Dawg", etc. Mine was "Mr. Peabody" (To the Wayback Machine, Sherman!). Go figure
Associate with people not like yourself. My experiences in high school, college, and especially the military showed me there are decent people (and dicks) from all walks of life and backgrounds. It's a useful perspective to have.
This has got to be the first competently written piece from Katz that we've seen in months (mostly because it's based on a real event and not some trite book or idea). And finally, something that hits home. JonKatz, I congratulate you; however, I don't think that your next story will be as good. Just stay away from the speculative "fodder-for-thought" style that you've been using lately.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I thought /. was all about computers, nerdy stuff like that. How do articles like this even make it. I submitted some really interesting things that geeks might be concerned with, do you think they got posted....Nooooo!
Anyway, if he really wanted to make a statement he should have turned down the nomination. It was uncalled for to make a statement in front of all those people. It really made the school look bad. For that, I think he deserves the punishment. Maybe suspension is a little harsh, but I think he deserves something.
Just my $0.02
When I was in school, we had a principal who could mete out punishment w/o having to recite Miranda rights or have an attorney present. School functioned very well. Because students started suing for "unequal application of the rules", school boards adopted "due process" and "zero-tolerence" policies. So now, reason and judgement are out the window -- we have kids suspended because they have toenail clippers in their backpacks.
You can send thank-you notes to the ACLU.
sometimes i wonder what the fuck is wrong with you people? This isn't a troll, its an honest thought. you may not disagree, but that doesn't mean it should be moderated down. The man is expressing an honest and VALID point that you guys are whining about a small minority, and that this country is in fact a democracy...
also note that this isn't Anonymous because this, also, is not a troll, nor is it flamebait. I fully expect some retarded fuck will moderate me down (big deal), but that's just slashdot moderators for you.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
Yes, a strongly worded letter to the editor has been proven to be the most effective manner of changing public opinion.
Ok, back in the day when I was a Junior in HS, I was talking my AP Comp.Sci. course.
One day, after seeing that the computers had slowed down quite considerably, I began poking aroundon my system and found a virus chewing at CPU cycles.
So, trying to play Mr Nice Geek, I fired up the anti-virus and removed it.
It just so happened that the teacher watched me do it, and gave me a pat on the back for it and told me to clean it from the lab (turns out every computer had it...)
The next day, all the computers had been turned off and unplugged, and we were not to even touch the PC's. When I got in there I saw the prinipal and the county netadmin, and they pulled me into a office.
What they had to say just blew my mind. They told me that i was responsible for infecting the lab with the virus I had discovered the day before. After hearing all this BS, i tryed to prove that I didnt do it, but trying to get a idea to them is about as hard as trying to cut a tree down with a herring.
When I confronted the teacher that said to clean the lab, he swore up and down that he saw me put the virus on the computer. So I took the punishment, not being able to change their minds.
But I did get the last laugh, every one of my grades shot through the roof, and I continue to this day to fix their computers.
I just get so tired of the school administrators taking their stupidity out on the kids. When they dont know how they did something or dont understand it, they try to lock away that knowledge so it wont happen anymore.
I personally agree with his actions, but I also think the school was justified in theirs.
You've never heard of the saying "Let the punishment fit the crime," have you?
Look at what the school considers grounds for suspension - "gun possession, drug use, theft or destruction of school property", and "refusing to be crowned homecoming king".. in the immortal words of Sesame Street, "one of these things is not like the others"
This is the equvalent of "Crimes worthy of Execution include Terrorism, First Degree Murder, High Treason, and Littering."
Let the punishment fit the crime - Civil protest is not a capital offense.
I had a friend in High School who witnessed the
"coolies" fudging the homecoming king/queen votes
so that one of their friends would win. Must be REALLY important to them.....
Lord Suggs aaron@yourlink.net http://members.yourlink.net/aaron
undernet efnet, all IRC nets. #linux is full of morons that "cant be bothered with simple questions". In fact I have found that when I even need advanced help they are usually worthless. Cryptic answers and 1/2 answers are the norm. Espically if you arent a part of their current cult. ("you're not a regular here, therefore you are not worthy.")
Nope geeks are usually worse than the "jocks" because jocks are known for stupid behaivoir, geeks are expected to be helpful humans when technology is involved, and a geek in a "sense of power" (Ohh you have op's access! Big hairy butt deal. I've had Op' access in more channels than all of you and I bailed on irc 4 years ago when it started to become crap)
It's not geeks versus jocks.. it's just the plain fact that 95% of everyone you will meet in your life is a moron (this includes 99% of all people in #linux on IRC, seek out the other 5%)
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
well, as a geek through school, I would have to say that the sour grapes seems like a cop out in and of itself. If you blame yourself for certain things, fine. I know I did not wear the right clothes, didn't even have a car, and had no money (my parents didn't have any, in other words). I am a bit bitter about attitudes and the values the school "kids" had and still have. However, like you, I worked around them. But I didn't reinvent myself. I am still the "nice guy" alot, but now it doesn't matter as someone who thought I was the nicest guy married me. I could really care less about appearance, but that does not mean I am one of these hypocritical "anti-everythings" that simply do the very OPPOSITE of what is popular under the guise of being "real". So, yes, I agree very much with what that student did. Maybe it was seen as rude to simply walk off the field. But think about this, he made a moral stand, then stuck by it when offered to sell out. Had he accepted, he would have been a hypocrit and a sell out. This was the best way for him to get his message out, that he was willing to sacrifice what many probably covet. That takes a lot of balls. Courage is doing what you think is right, regardless or how people will think about you. I say kudos to him, and that he shows a lot more character than MANY, whether adults or students.
You can disagree with his tactics, him, me, etc. But surely you can admit that he showed a lot of integrity by not accepting.
One other thing I learned that was real imporant. You questioned above whether the previous poster thought social "skills" equated to being mean and cruel, yet said it was sour grapes, bigotry and jealousy. Coming from a very forthright person, who is often looked at funny because he comes right up to people and says Howdy (translation: hi) and shakes hands, I initiate conversations and make jokes (not usually good ones though). And I have actually seen more cruelty and bigotry from the shy. On the other hand, I respect others personal space and don't intrude if I determine I am overstepping. Is that sour grapes? Am I jealous... of what, I have no idea. I think it would be great if young adults (not like I am old, however) put more into constructive interaction and helping each other (is that cheese I smell?), as opposed to playing politics and popularity games. I often see many in awkward situations (me included), and I have NEVER viewed it as a reflection of their worth. I actually have observed that the "socialites" as they are often refered to are self centered and never "compete" by bettering themselves, but rather by tearing others down. That shows a lack of self respect, maturity and social skills. Just because it is chick to act like and arrogant elitist, does not make it a positive social skill.
Perhaps the most important thing, though, is that the social competing crap should really go out by the time junior high is over with. Notice how the high school aged are acting more and more like kids all the time, yet instead of trying to reverse this, many just shrug and turn around and treat them like kids. Yes, the ol' "what comes around goes around" is true, but works both ways. I have found that by respecting the 'young'ns' of that age, and acting respectfully, that they seem to grow up while in my presence. I have even seen 16 year olds slap or chastice their buddies for cursing, acting stupid, etc, after having a short conversation with the teenager.
Now, another thing I want to address is the excuses of "they are still growing up" regarding the predatory behavior or many teenagers. Yes, kids are cruel, but as I mentioned before, these are not kids (even though I think of myself as a kid, 26). I have heard of too many cases (mainly from people in college that helped counsel) of long term psychological damage from high school ridicule. I was ridiculed, but was lucky in that it mellowed out by grade 11 to a degree. Some of these teenagers are basically punished for being alive. Maybe they have a pizza face, maybe they have a lemon for a car, who cares. Its one thing for them to be an outcast. But to be actively picked on all the time is rediculous. Personally, if I ever have kids that tried that crap, they would find themselves in a military school faster than you can say, "haze me". I have seen teachers look the other way, or even worse help in the riducule. I once walked out of a class because the teacher was helping to ridicule another student over some superficial crap. While that was rather direct of the teacher, I have seen teachers play favorites, by punishing the ridiculed student if he/she retaliates back, but ignoring the attacks on him/her. Or, the teacher treats the attacking students like angels, but gives cold responses and sighs to the victim. Basically most school societies have their priorities backwards, IMHO.
ahhh, much better now... thats like tking a good 20 minute dump
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
Agreed. This sort of thing happened a lot during high school.
I, a classical "nerd", hung out with nearly everyone in high school. I was well liked (except by a few hard-core "jocks", the rest of the athletes actually rather liked me), ate my lunch in the "nerd" clique, then spent my nights at the pool hall with the stoners. When, of course, I wasn't hanging out with the band or theater groups. It was all pretty open-ended, and people who could get along with others easily were pretty much welcome everywhere.
Point is, social circles aren't nearly as ironclad as they seem in high school. This sort of "us against them" mentality serves no one.
He entered the contest. He won. Then he refuesed it. In my high school we had a runner-up. What happened to thiers? When I didn't agree with something I didn't participate. I took a stand at school in my english class. The teacher wanted us to study bible stories as literature. I had no problem with this. What I did have a problem with was that we "only" had one week for this. By Wednesday we had done all old testament stories. I asked when we would get to the new testament. I was told was we didn't have time for those stories. After discussing this a bit I asked his religion. He is Jewish. This is where my problem came into play. After about five more minutes of discussion I was sent to the prinipal's office for disrupting the class. After missing two more classes over this I was sent back to class.
The next day our teacher said that that portion of our class would end (looking dead at me) due to a student's complaint. Later that year I got a 0 on my term paper becouse "it wasn't turned in". This was after getting the three students in front of me to confirm that it had been passed up. I made them note that it was in the pile due to concerns I had that the teacher disliked me.
I wound up in summer school that year for failing english.
My point after all of that. If you are going to take a stand, you have to be prepared for the consiquences.
does anyone know if there's an e-mail address for these "administrators" or a web page or something? If so please please post it... even a snail mail address would be handy. It's incidents like this that make my gut wrench
yes although this is a valid point, did you have to be a pompous ass in telling katz? why you'll have to be a prick to katz makes very little sense to me. i enjoy most of his articles. rob
Or do you get out your cable splicer and create a new one?
Respond to s
...If I were your son, I would grow into open comtempt of your life and worldview.
You mean to actually imply that the Homecoming Queen nominees are not sluts? Hrrm, not so for my school
Information is the catalyst for revolution
Seems to call to mind the Freedom Riders in the US(if memory serves).
All they did was write letters, right?
Paul Anderson
"I drank WHAT?!" -- Socrates
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Beg your parents, "Get me outta here! Homeschool me." You'll be able to focus on learning material you should be learning, and not on the "socialization" that so many seem to think homeschoolers will be deprived of (losing the kind of socialization you get in high school is a gain, if you ask me). You'll have a lot more time for games and Linux/BSD hacking, too, because homeschoolers get stuff done a lot faster--you can get school done in a morning. You'll find out if your parents have the guts to try something radical. If both parents work, tell them that since you're not on the Microsoft treadmill, you ought to be able to afford for one of them to stay home, to start some work from home on the computer. You can be their sysadmin, too.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Democracy is: Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives. (From the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition)
A republic is: A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them. (From the same source.)
The differences between the two are summed up in two words: entitled and responsible. In a republic, the people voting are doing so because it is their right. It is something that they are entitled to do. This concept of having a right to vote is absent from the basic definition of a democracy. In a democracy, you are allowed to vote. The second difference is who the government is responsible to. In a republic, the elected officials are responsible to the citizens who elected them. This idea of responsibility to the voters, like the idea of a right to vote, is not present in a democracy, even if it is a representative one.
So, why is the government of the USA often called a democracy and who started calling it that? Beats me. If I was being cynical, I'd say it was some one who wanted to confuse the issue of where the powerlies, with the citizens or the government.
(That should be "People Lead" in my sig.)
--
"You can put a man through school,
But you cannot make him think."
"You can put a man through school,
But you cannot make him think."
Ben Harper
"But President Bush snorted coke, why can't I?"
Slashdot, come for the goatse, stay for the trolls.
All right, let's talk about what "people skills" are, and what they're for. Suppose you live in a culture which actively detests intelligence (as demonstrated in its films, books, and all other modes of popular culture). Suppose you yourself are smart enough to have studied history and realize that
Wouldn't it be your responsibility to try to get others to think for themselves, before you simply try to take control and do their thinking for them (a la Gates and your other so-called "successful geeks")? The boy in high school who is smart enough and has enough integrity to fail to conform deliberately, with a funny and strikingly effective act of theatre that galvanizes such an unthinking response by authority, has a great chance of growing up to be one of our new "leaders."
If you studied what used to be called "leadership traits," you'd know that political "leaders" are actually those who intuit or otherwise know (through manipulation, sometimes) how the crowd feels -- they get out front and lead them in the direction they already want to go. This is sad but true.
But we can imagine a society differently organized, can't we: a society in which individuals are free to speak many-to-many, can use reason in their low-level political discourse, and perhaps arrive at high-level consensus based on the merits (for a particular issue) rather than based on the "popularity" of the leader, or her/his conformity to the lowest denominator of popular values. Since you are online, and visit /., I have to hope you know what I'm talking about.
"People skills" are those skills which allow us to understand how others (who are different from us) think and feel; and to speak, listen, and act with them in a non-violent manner. Depending on your own personality, you may believe good "people skills" are those which allow you to become coercive, to manipulate others and accomplish your personal will collectively. Some of us, however, believe good "people skills" are displayed exceptionally well by individuals like the 19-century Quaker who single-handedly decided slavery was wrong, and visited every Quaker slaveholder to persuade them of the same, without any coercion, individually. By the Civil War, no Quakers held slaves.
There are many times I would despair of humanity, except that I note that despite the barbarism and inhumanity of mass warfare and genocide in the 20th century, the last century also saw the birth of civil disobedience movements, and non-violent intentional social change. My hope is in young men and women, like this young man who lay down his crown, to continue this brand-new form of "people skills" as practised by Gandhi, MLK, and a few other pioneers.
This is sooo cool! I never realized miracosta had it in them! I went to redondo high their rival school (who gives laptops to their students for the duration of their stay or shall i say imprisonment). I work for eLinux in torrance and eat lunch everyday at the subway right by miracosta. Any local geeks in that area send me an email at chind@hotmail.com I'd be really interesting to meet you. What an incredible feat he pulled off, most people wouldnt have the guts to do this. Still the fact that i can walk two blocks to my local slashdot article fascinates me. Its almost holy.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
I am a Senior at Monte Vista High School in Danville, CA. I suppose you could say I am also a member of the "downtrodden" community; I'm a "nerd", a guy who spends all his time messing with Linux and Perl and doesn't have a real life. I, too, think the schools' culture is far too restrictive and conformist. While the teachers at my school are a positive influence (all my teachers know of my computer skills and are grateful for the time I spend helping them), the students are, shall I say, less than supportive.
I feel many times as if the skills I bring and the work I do for the school is under-appreciated by the students; I'm just "the smart kid who knows about computers". Students who know how to program computers are told they "need to get a life", they need to actually do something meaningful, they need to "have some fun once in a while", and of course, they need to "get out" more often. What most people don't understand is, I choose programming over "going out" and "getting a life"!
Schools need to understand that things like dumping the homecoming crown are just fine. I think the district's action was way off base, and I hope they realize what a stupid mistake they've made. What every school needs to remember is that there are some of us who just don't fit the mold, and won't function well within the canonical system. As long as they remember that students are people too (yes, with feelings, thoughts and opinions), we'll get along just fine.
-- Josh
"I haven't lost my mind -- it's just backed up on tape somewhere."
...that school officials were *trying* to make Patrick's point? All through my high school I heard the contests referred to as beauty pageants by teachers. Our school officials aren't all idiots. The system is bad, but speaking for my friends who have become teachers, they are from the same educated background as us, and they actually *care* for their students education. I do know of one high school jock who became a teacher - a gym teacher. I don't think that he's going to be principal any time soon.
I'm a parent too.... The point behind what he did was to get his opinion(s) NOTICED. Which he suceeded greatly at. Writing a letter to the school paper would have NOWHERE NEAR the same effect as what he pulled off. That kid is going places! >>>>>>>CSG_SurferDude
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
Bah. He garnered all that support and had the guts to walk out on the field, then he wimps out when he actually wins. He had a big sarcastic speech prepared and doesn't follow through. Instead he walks off, as if it is some big social statement. The school gets irked and hassles him a little.
Yawn. Since when is this news? Did anyone here who attended a public high school NOT witness a few oddball punishments like this now and then?
This story had a humorous potential to it, then it died when the kid wimped out. Who cares? There is better/funnier stuff out there to report.
For instance, you can read about a deadly fish tank at http://udel.edu/~jgephart/fishcounter.htm
It's much more entertaining...
------
Let me give you the lowdown
Has ANYONE has a school disipline issue (that "perminant record" stuff they always threatend us with) come back to haunt them? Hell I was suspended, thrown into detention, and all kinds of other stuff. After HS, it means dick.
Finkployd
Mira Costa High School's web page is
here
; For some reason they have another web page:
here
Like most high school web sites I've seen both are full of broken links and poor formatting but they do include phone numbers, addresses, and e-mail addresses.... let's tell them what we think...
Wow! An interesting JonKatz article!
...and are routinely sent home, suspended, or forced into "special education" programs for dressing oddly, speaking honestly, or playing the wrong kind of computer games.
However, I must take issue with one statement:
They have no privacy or right to due process, and are routinely sent home, suspended, or forced into "special education" programs for dressing oddly, speaking honestly, or playing the wrong kind of computer games.
1) They have no right to privacy or due process...
Very true, and they shouldn't. Are we next going to argue for due process in the home, and pick on parents who don't implement it? Don't get me wrong - I think the kid got a very sour deal, but I don't think the answer lies in a school court system. Privacy? They should have it if they earn it. One thing that really bothers me as a parent is to hear people talking about how children (mine included) should have all the rights and priviledges that adults have. Should my children have the right to total privacy if I am partly responsible, under the law, for their every act? That's not fair, Jon. I'm not against privacy, but I will invade it if I need to uphold my moral or legal responsibility as a parent.
2)
Wow, you make it sound like an epidemic. I did every single one of those when I was in school, but I was never put into special education, nor sent home. In fact, I earned the respect of some of the teachers for my intelligence and honesty. Okay, I said I was never sent home - I meant sent home unfairly. Most of the time, when I had a problem with a teacher, it was because I "spoke honestly" at the wrong time or in the wrong way. It wasn't honesty, it was disrespect, and I believe that that sort of speaking should be corrected.
What? No free speech for children?
Not without consequences - just like in the real world, which is what we're supposed to be preparing our children for.
What I want to know is this: why, Jon, do you pander to the young readership on Slashdot? Is it because you haven't grown up yourself and you identify with them better, or is it so they'll keep coming back and sometimes click on the ads?
I can't wait until you have your own children. Then, when you're all responsible for the life, well being, and education of people who can't live without your support, we'll see how much privacy and due process you really think they should have.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
In my home town what they are calling the Salem Whitch Hunt #2 is going on right now. They have suspended a girl just because she 'looks' like a witch and supposedly put a 'hex' on a teacher that got sick... What a load of crap.
So some kid opposed to the popularity contest that is the homecoming charade pulls a fast one on the school. Suspending him has really rewarded him for this act-- which is one of a number of great reasons for the school to have just let it go. If I recall the aphorisms of my youth correctly, they went something like, "Sticks and stones..." and "Ignore them and they'll go away."
This crap is not front page news for Slashdot. If this is news here, how much moreso is news like this case, where a teenage girl was suspended from school for casting a spell on her teacher.
I do not have a signature
The only real problem with what we have now is that the 'norm' is based on a faulty and destructive value system that places looks and money above more human characteristics. Change the value system in schools to reward good deeds, fellowship, and brotherhood and we no longer have these problems. (admittedly, easier said then done)
The Internet is generally stupid
Correct. If you disagree with a communtiy sponsored organization be it school or government, never join it to disrupt it. Unhappy with a group? You have no right to try and change it from within. Just write letters to the editor where every one is sure to read and be influenced by your views.
Lets face it, you think it would be read. Who would you send it to. The administration...they would probably put it in his file and tell the teachers to be on the lookout abnormal behavior from him. Probably call you for a *talk*. Then what publish it in the school newspaper...I graduated in '93 and the administration had final say, quite often not allowing any letters or stories that would put anyone in a bad light. Much less the whole school society. Publish it in the town paper? Sure the might place it in the editorials of which maybe 10% of the people ( and not his school body ) reads. That would be a waste of his and yours time. Lets face it the letter would have zero effect on anyone and be forgotten as quick as he wrote it. He stood up for something he believed in, and you should stand up for him/her as a parent
I ran for Student Body President of Cypress High School in wonderful Orange County, CA in 1980. This was after our school library hours were cut because of Prop. 13. So I campaigned on the issue of using more student money for the library and the school and less for the football and other sports teams. To make a long story short, there was a riot at a speaking rally when members of the football team threw things at the stage, and punched one of my staffers. I had the mic so I used it to call these idiots what they were, "a bunch of fucking hypocrites." I was suspended for three days. Members of the football team that physically assaulted one of my friends were let off with a warning. I am not surprised the way the school acted, and I do think our youngster is more clued in to the way things really are than most. GOOD JOB KID!
Errors are necessary for the universe to work, perfection is stagnation.
He has valid criticism that is relevant, please mod it back up.
http://www.armory.com/~crisper/Scorch/
I hope English isn't your first language.
Refrag
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Point: What he did should not have resulted in suspension. It is goddamned ridiculous that the school would suspend him for declining an award, which is in no way "disruptive", since the rest of the evening can continue without pause. Furthermore, he wasn't defying school officials, since they didn't choose him for king. He was defying his peers, the possibility of which is exactly what makes the US the greatest country in the Solar System (not that we don't have problems here). I really hope that his parents triumph in any legal action they pursue, because the boy only exercised the rights accorded to a US citizen: freedom of speech. He made a statement that he didn't want to accept the award, and I applaud that.
Counterpoint: Although bold and to-the-point, he could have rejected the award in a more graceful fashion, by stepping up to a microphone and saying, "Thanks, but no thanks, I do not accept my award." This kid is clearly trying to feel like he's some kind of political activist, and it makes him look like an idiot and a fool. Just listen to some of his quotes about how schools ought not put glamor in these popularity contests. What a fucking moron. The more he talks, the more grace he nips away from his actions. I've seen more worthy causes in my toilet, and I flush those away. He's no martyr, he's just a moron who wanted to become more popular overnight than any Homecoming King award could have ever made him. "The downtrodden"? What the hell are they? Sounds like this guy is a real loser, who likes to complain that he's not popular, which just makes him less popular. I've always been a computer geek, and was in fact the best student in my high school. Although not popular by any measure, I was never shunned. I firmly believe that those who are shunned in high school put themselves in that position. It starts by a perceived alienation, so that the child withdraws until it becomes real. For some reason, the people who withdraw are those who enjoy being alienated, because it gives them reason to cry, whine, and attract attention. Of course, since everybody loves to be a victim, the child then claims he was an outcast from the start, when in fact it was he that withdrew. All this complaining just drags his friends' attitudes down, so that they eventually abandon him. Finally, whiny and alone, the child tries to make a statement (although it's a hollow one), by complaining even more, changing his personality, dressing differently, and associating himself with others of his type.
While I don't know if he actually wanted this much attention, it is very clear he wanted to act like a "grown-up". The problem is, he picked one of the political-activist grown-ups that behave like children to push their worthless causes down your throat. If he doesn't endorse this sort of popularity contest, he shouldn't have come. It's as simple as that. To think that he has some right to enforce his values on a mass of people just because HE wants to attend a school activity, is childish and self-centered at best. At worst, it's the sort of dictatorial attitude that RMS takes toward Free Software (I'll call it Open Source just to piss him off, Fuck You RMS).
This kid thinks things should be his way just because he's an American citizen? Well so am I, and I want things my way. What's he going to do about that? If you want to abolish popularity contests, kid, run for superintendand of your school district in 20 years, then push to have them abolished. Quit whining now.
Finally, I feel sorry for the Homecoming Queen, who must have felt horrible standing there smiling while her king just walked away. What an asshole.
In response to the "Nerds 7, xxxx 0" post subject (I don't remember what the xxxx stands for), this kid is by no means a nerd. He's not a geek, either. He's just some whiny little kid who wants adverse attention. He wants people to notice him, and have respect for his political activities. A true nerd does one of two things:
Since this kid chose neither route, he's not a nerd.
I do not belong in the spam.redirect.de domain.
Heh, I have to agree...I was an "outcast" in high-school mainly because I saw how pathetic the "in" crowd was...the most fun I had was in college, and I was still a "loser." I was boring to the "in" crowd in college, too, but there were, frankly, people I could at least relate to and talk to/do things with if I wanted to. It's actually quite nice not having to feel like I need to "belong" with a group...it means being able to think for myself, rather than absentmindedly go with the horde mentality.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
"We should eliminate all sports, because some kids are not athletic. We should eliminate dances because some kids are too shy or too socially awkward to get a date."
Who the Hell said that, moron?
Just because he doesn't meet your standards does not make the kid socially backward. He wanted to make a statement about society and conformity and he did so in a manner that didn't harm another individual. Good for him.
Ranessin
I was one of those kids at redondo high forced into 'special' programs for not conforming to the like. Its called ACES. I was the only kid in the class who wasnt on some type of drug at all times. I remember kids on acid, etc, it was just a way for them to waste their time. There used to be a teacher at redondo high named Carolyn Murphy who understood the dilemma of the geek stereotype and fought the administration constantly about it. Unfortunetly she died a few years ago. If anything she needed to be held up as an example of how a teacher should be and encourage individuality amongst its students. The truth is is that educational institutions including redondo high are corrupt with all the money getting sucked into the administration. All those teachers fighting for more money inevitably goes back to the administration. Thats the problem with addiction to federal money. The best way to destroy this would be to allow competition between schools by allowing any person to go to any school they choose. a revolution in education would occur.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
As is often the case with this kind of change, there was much animosity between the two groups. A great deal of Us vs. Them mentality, in spite of many great efforts to get along.
One of my biggest gripes with the new company was this silly awards thing they did once a year. A weak attempt to boost internal morale if I ever saw one.
I soon found myself awarded (along with a few others) a Team Player Award (or something like that). The funny thing was that that all of the other guys in my department were of the Other Side -- also physically in another state -- and I hardly considered us much of a team. It was a diamond-shaped Lexan (or similar hard plastic) thing with etched writing on it. I knew a guy who was into guns, so I gave him my trophy and told him to shoot a hole in it.
It was a very cool sight, that modified award. I still have it. A high-powered round at about 2 yards punched a hole right in the middle of it, with about six or so spidery cracks radiating from the hole. I took it to the office for a couple of days, and word spread quickly back to Corporate HQ.
A short while later, I was browsing the company's internal weblog, known ironically as "SpeakEasy". It was a place for employees to "anonymously" vent and bring up internal issues that were troubling them. To my surprise, a few of the lemmings from HQ started posting things about how horrible this unknown person was who shot their award. It was quite amusing.
Eventually, I cut loose on the board. I explained why I did what I did, that the entire concept of silly awards to make things all shiny and happy in a company with many problems was too bogus for me to take sitting down. I made a few pointed observations about upper management and that was that.
To everyone's surprise, the CEO totally blasted me and the original company on this discussion forum. He truly made an ass of himself, and the consensus from many people (from both camps) was that he stepped over the line. Word got back to me that even some of Them thought my demonstration and explanation was right on the mark.
After catching some heat from other on the forum, the CEO issued an apology. It was so sincere, you could almost see the gun to his head as you read it. :-)
The next Monday, I found myself unemployed. The reason? (I mean aside from the obvious.) I was fired for subordination, for failing to complete a yearly evaluation of my performance months before this very incident. This was my first, and only, offence in almost 3 years of respected employment with this company. I knew others who also refused to piss away their time with the evaluation, but none of them ever got fired (as a direct result, at least).
The funny thing was that they tried to bribe me with severance pay. I could receive 2 more weeks of pay if I only ageed to: 1) Not discuss my reasons for departing; and 2) Not take legal action against the company. I flatly refused, much to the astonishment of one of my managers. Is this kind of bribery standard practice in the private sector?
Oh, what fun times we live in! :-)
-Elendale (*screams, rants, raves more*)
IANAT (I Am Not A Troll)
Did he actually run for homecoming King? At most of the schools I know of (minus the ones in the movies) you don't actually *run* for homecomgin King or Queen. The student picks them. At my former HS, each class (freshman-senior) picked who they wanted to represent them. Then the entire student picked the king/queen of the ones the seniors choose. Did he actually run?
The article said that "couples" lined up. Were the ladies nominated and voted on separately? If not, was the young woman who campaigned with him aware that he was going to do this? Or did he have an unwitting participant who he left at the throne?
Words have their place. Unfortunately, words can very easilly be ignored. Had he sent a letter to the editor, it would not have been read. Let me put it bluntly. Stunts are are a good thing. Not getting up when a white man demands your seat. Setting yourself on fire in the town square. Standing in front of a line of tanks. All of those are stunts. Certainly bigger and for more important causes, but stunts nevertheless. What annoys me more than anything is that you place the value of a petty contest above your child's rightto say what he likes. This kid isn't shallow. Value it.
A few years back, when one of our chemistry profs won a fairly well-known prize (for the discovery of "buckyballs"), we elected him Homecoming Queen. (Don't believe me? Check out his C.V.!)
you have to remember, you guys are in America, meaning most papers and essays are, for the most part, *ignored* by the commoners (and administrators, to boot...) but actions are _always_ noticed... case in point: why do you think action movies and other such forms of visual stimuli are more popular than "chich flicks" or anything cerebral? your country's been dumbed down so bad, everything has to be in-your-face before anyone'll get the first clue. why do you think W Bush managed to get where he is now? gah.
"unfortunately i just knocked over a box of lucky charms cereal and now there's irony all over my floor." -bobby
Is it just me, or was the student punished academically (His student record will reflect the suspension) for an action that had nothing to do with his academic abilities?
I mean sure, colleges look at extracirricular activites when they consider students. But how does suspension for disrupting a football game even begin to make sense?
My wife teaches elementary and high-school music in little Cobden, IL (about as far from Chicago as you can get in Illinois, both geographically and philosophically). The teachers are in the middle of a *long* strike. It has been found out that the superintendent of the school was withholding funds over a legally restricted time limit (48 hours) in an attempt to deceive the teachers' union into believing that the school district would go bankrupt given *any* raise in pay. This strike started (IIRC) either at the end of September or the very beginning of October. The school board was inflexible, mainly because they firmly, genuinely believed that the school district would go bankrupt. Now, the school board, in an effort (IMHO) to save face is wanting to dock the teachers 9 days of pay. This means that not only the teachers would miss out on 9 days of pay (effectively taking away this year's raise) but would also take nearly two weeks off of the school year (if they're docked, they're not paid.)
What do community members have to say? "Good for the superintendent; those damn teachers would have wanted the money if they'd known about it" (Never mind that I and others believe that if the superintendent was capable of hiding the money for a short amount of time that he'd be equally capable and willing to embezzle the money.) "Those damn teachers are just greedy." (Teachers are among the lowest-paid workers in the U.S.; I used to work in a department store and made more money than my wife does now--and I had better benefits.) "Fire all them damn teachers; they ain't reasonable and they won't work with the school board" (yes, the people of Cobden talk like that, to my horror, and truly believe that the school board is doing right by coming to the table once or twice a week with the same proposal and stating, "take it or leave it.")
School sucks--and not just for the kids.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Think a little deeper... I wasn't very good at playing politics, but I've always been pretty good at focusing on and then solving (or finding workarounds for) the actual problems facing a company. At times I certainly "failed" personally as an employee, usually because my bosses always seemed to be afraid I wanted their jobs (I didn't); why else would I put in those hours and do such good work? (Because I have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility...)
Fortunately, that's not the end of the story. I was able to analyze my problem, see that "office politics" would always be a problem for me because I kept focusing on the COMPANY's actual problem (instead of what the IMMEDIATE BOSS wanted to see happen). So, I became a consultant. In this way, my "boss" is free to take credit for being smart enough to hire me, and I can focus on getting the job(s) done.
Usually the company is very happy with my work; if its management types are all too short-sighted and insecure to look at their real problems, and just want a make-it-pretty solution (like Citibank and other past clients which shall remain nameless, since Citibank is the only one where I worked in 3-4 separate departments and found the same, apparently pervasive, corporate climate), well... there's plenty of potential clients out there!
Reminds me of the Indian proverb about a small bird paralyzed by fear from the stare of a King Cobra. The bird forgets that it has wings and can simply fly away.
I messed up part of that...I meant to state that if the teachers are docked 9 days, that means those days are simply chopped off the calendar and not made up at all. Therefore, students would miss out on two weeks of learning. Not good.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
There are traditions throughout our society that are important if for nothing other than defining ourselves as a whole & recognizing the individuality of our members. The fact that this kid won is proof that the members of his school recognized him as someone who stood out for one reason or another, and I suspect he will receive high fives from jocks he's never even met on Monday.
What needs to happen is bringing [jocks: insert sub-class here] and [geeks: see previous tag] into the same clubs and making them depend on each other for the prize. I'd like to see student assistant coaches from the computer club (a good perl script could make some pretty original plays), and a wrestler or two would do well for themselves to be on the ... well, chess club.
It would seem to me the real perception problem comes from the anti-socials as well, who's first reaction is to call a jock something derogitory without even knowing that jocks name. The reverse is true too, with jocks throwing names at the goths without knowing them - but I hope my point is clear. You can't tear someones traditions appart and expect them to thank you, but you can be a part of those traditions without losing your individuality (if you can't maintain your individuality in the face of a different culture, then your not really different anyway) Without getting involved in each others activities, you can't possibly hope to come to an understanding - much less actually get along with each other.
As far as his suspension goes, don't over react. It's so far beyond laughable it's not even funny. The students know it, I'll be most of the teachers know it, and the parents know it too. Soon, when the students stage a walkout in protest, the school board is hit with a lawsuit, and the front pages of the newspapers (again) shine the glaring light of bad publicity on them - The administrators will know it too, and then - may God have mercy on their souls.
Ctimes2
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
Did this kid win the "chubby bunny" contest? Or the "blow a bubble with the gum hidden in the bottom of this cream pie" contest?
All kings is mostly rapscallions. -Mark Twain, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
I just got in and was very sorry to see myself accused of plagiarism for the first time in my life. To me, it's a new low in the story of /. hostility to me and others. Tim and jeff are posting messages about this, but just to make it clear. I don't plagiarize, not now or ever.
The source of the bulk of this info is linked to in the introduction..it's the Daily Breeze, the local paper. I don't know how you plagiarize something you link to. I don't think that's even possible. But there were several other sources for one or two facts, including wire services, local TV and about 20 e-mails people sent me, including some school officials and reporters who didn't want to be id'd. So I respected that, and linked to the stuff that came from the paper so there would be no doubt as to the source.
I agree all factual material should be attributed which is why I always did it and a couple of paragraphs here or phrases should have had quotes on them, but it didn't all come from one source, which was the problem. Obviously the point, opinions and commentary are mine. Attribution is importand and valid point to raise. But plagiarism is an ugly charge and it's particularly vicious to make it in this way when anybody with any common sense or good faith could have seen the link or simply e-mailed me. If anybody has any questions, feel free to e-mail me now. This is a sad accusation for me, especially when it's made in so witless and irresponsible a way. Anybody has the right to ask anything here, but some of you really ought to ask yourselves some questions about the level of viciousness and cruelty you seem to take as acceptable in your writings. If anybody has any questions, e-mail me, or you can arrange to speak to me. There is no plagiarism issue here, only a question of attribution in one or two paragraphs. Nobody in the world is more of a stickler on this than me,as anybody can see by reading any of my columns...hardly a one doesn't have quotes and attributions. This is really a cheap shot, well over the line, but you're all entitled to an answer about it.
jonkatz@slashdot.org
Katz, you've gone way too far on this one. Geeks don't need to band together, we don't need another group of people with special rights, and popularity contests are not bad.
High school is designed to help you deal with social situations where people are smarter than you are, dumber than you are, faster than you are, richer than you are, and more popular than you are. These are things that everyone will run into for the rest of their lives, and kids need to be taught how to deal with these situations in a "practice environment" where the consequences are mostly symbolic punishment and hurt feelings.
If you can't deal with other people getting a bigger peice of the social pie than you have, what are you going to do when the beautiful people in line get seated in that swanky new restaurant while you stand outside in your broken shoes with a stain on your shirt?
There are rules as to how things are done in this world, and if you don't play by the rules then you're not going to get anywhere. I am not saying that there is not a place for revolutionaries, I am simply saying that most young kids need to learn how to deal with unfairness from an early age, or they'll constantly be frustrated by their inability to understand why they're being treated unfairly.
If you are smart enough to realize that high school and its methods are a bunch of bunk, then get your diploma, get out, start a company, buy a sparc and have fun. If you're not smart enough to see past that facade, better to get your knocks in a place where it doesn't really matter. If you're intelligent, part of your job is to see past the apparent nastiness of high school for what it really is, a boxing match preparing you for the street brawl of the real world. If you can't see it, then you're not as smart as you think you are, and maybe you're just a tortured soul.
http://wharris.poweredbygeek.net
I don't have much to add except to share an experience I had. Something I did in high school was viewed in much the same light. Although it did not result in disciplinary action, many faculty and students felt the need to discuss the situation with me and try to change my mind, some going so far as to demand that I had no right to do what I did.
I was in band and had been for years. The band was quite small and I was the only low brass player they had. During my 11th grade year, they hired a new assistant band director. This was when I learned that hiring as asst. director the person who had previously been director could be a bad idea. To put it simply, he wasn't happy not having the final say and frequently did things like took out any modern music (music that was popular with our age group within the last few years) on a day the director wasn't there. We wound-up with a marching version of the 1812 Overture and the theme from Ghost Riders in the Sky (apparently an old show, well before my time.)
It was the Thursday before the first game and next to last day of band camp. The asst. director decided to make a huge stink of something I did (it wasn't really a big deal, small enough I have long since forgotten it) and that was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back." I decided I'd had enough of it, went home for lunch, typed a letter to the band director saying I was quiting and that it was personal differences with the asst. director, sealed it in an envelope and gave it to the director, along with my uniform and instrument (property of the school.) The only other people I shared that with was my parents.
Somehow, word quickly made the rounds of the school. I don't know how they found out the contents of the letter (could have been the director or asst. director sharing it, or it could have been my brother via my parents.) The fact that I didn't like the asst. director was well known and I was attacked for it. "I think it's horrible what you're doing to him" is exactly what one classmate said to me just as a class was starting (yelled across the room.)
I never did figure out that reasoning. I guess "it's high school" is the best explination. I made every effort to keep a personal difference from becoming a public event, but something went wrong somewhere. I had figured that the way the asst. director was just how the he was. I did not fight to change the organization when others seemed satisfied with it.
I was ultimatly asked to come back by the band director and agreed with the condition that the asst. director stay off my back. I was there because I enjoyed it. I would not be making a career of music and the band was far too small (not to mention too many of the members were only in it so they could see the football games for free) to be a competition band. For some reason, after that, the asst. director left me alone, and I had a rather enjoyable year. I wasn't in band the following year as I did "early admission" (freshman year of college in leiu of 12th grade.)
BTW: the asst. director had retired as director 10 years previous - when I was in 1st grade. While that likely was how he was, I had no way of knowing that until band camp started that year. IMHO, 3.5 days was a not an extensive amount of time to decide I couldn't stand the guy (band camp was only 5 days, 9am-4pm.)
This is a lie and shouldn't be allowed to stand. It's really on the edge of defamation. The source material for this story was linked to in the introduction on the front. You can't plagiarize something that you are linking to, obviously, as should be clear even to Greg. The fact that the wording is similiar is also not especially significant, since all of the accounts of the suspension used more or less the same language.
This story came from the local paper, the Daily Breeze, which was credited and linked to at the beginning of the piece. But that wasn't the only source..Others included wire services, two local reporters, a bunch of kids who all sent me the same info but didn't want to be ID'd or have the information attributed to them. So to make sure, I linked to the story and then paraphrased the information. Some phrases should technically have had quotes around them. I didn't because I linked to the entire piece and couldn't credit the others. Greg, you don't know what you're talking about. This isn't plagiarism by any stretch of the imagination. That's a deeply offensive charge. Anyone familiar with my work, regardless of what you think of it, will see meticulous attribution to all information that doesn't come from me. If you have the least bit of decency, which appears doubtful, you should apologize for this and set the record straight. I won't hold my breath. If I were really into the law, I'd teach you what it really means to charge somebody with something so recklessly and stupidly. But you have the perfect right to raise this issue, however inaccurately.
I don't plagiarize, and in nearly two decades of writing, th is is the lst time the word has ever come up in connection with my and. And inaccurately. I find this sad.
jonkatz@slashdot.org
And the fact that this kind of charge can be made by a person who redefines the whole idea of an anonymous coward is also troubling. People should take some responsibility for the things they say and do.
jonkatz@slashdot.org
I remember one of my high school teachers explaining how occasionally he has met with the FBI to discuss a former student that was trying to join the organization. I might suspect that a simular inquiring would happen for a detailed background screening.
then you are a BAD parent not deserving of your child. I sincerely hope your child grows up to despise you and the values you give him/her.
Any parent that wouldn't support their own child, despite any actions/decisions they make, isn't a worthy human being, let alone a fit parent. Might I suggest sterilization before you procreate yet again?
you are a despicable human being.
We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us.
We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us. - Douglas Coupland
Nobody likes the thought of a gun, but there's a distinctly warm and pleasant feeling associated with the thought my gun.
Education is the silver bullet.
When the information doesn't come from only one source, it is still customary to cite all of the sources involved.
yours,
yours,
kbs
College application have a section that says, "have you ever been suspended or expelled from a school?" That information will also appear on a person's high school transcript that will get submitted to colleges.
Sure, right now, anything that happened in high school doesn't matter a bit. But at the age of 17, it did matter.
-Dean
This is America where you have the right to rebel for the freedom to be like everyone else. I think the poor kid got off easy with a suspension. Chances are if this happened somewhere less liberal the student would have been charged with conspiracy to commit a violent act, insurrection, bad manners and daring to have an opinion no matter how sophomoric the expression of that opinion. Go down to God Fearin Amurrcan Heartland and there is a better than average chance the kid's house would've had some windows broken or worse and mom & dad could've caught some shit at work for not raisin' em up raht.
For whatever reason, the article has moved since orriginally posted... http://www.dailybreeze .co m/content/bln/jim/nmwebking.html
-- The Hoss Man
when i was in junior high, i hated the entire skewl system, i hated the way they just forced you to do things, i thought of them as nazis, and i was one of those helpless guys in the concentration camp. anyway, here's my story: i hated getting pictures taken because i was one of those paranoid freaks that thought ppl would try to look me up when i was older and laugh at me. so when it was time to get our school picturs, i refused to. the vice-principal physically came into the class i was in and dragged me to the photo place. and when i tried making an ugly face to the camera (ie: calvin and habbes) they suspended me. on a side note, i refused to participate in graduation because i thought it was a farce, so they suspended me for that too. when commencement came, i gave the finger to the entire school and again, i was dragged off and suspended the last day of school. this wasn't even in high school yet. this kinda stuff starts happening much earlier
tap 2 blue, I counter that
Suppose your kid decided that kicking the shit out of "Blacks", "Whites", "Jews" or "put your favourite ethnic group here" was part of his value system. Would you still support him? There are lines in the sand and the only issue is where to put them and the costs for crossing them.
You demand special rights for yourself and your child without upholding them for the person making the argument that you so earnestly attack. It was his (her?) "Action/Decision" to print their opinion. Your claiming a right to enact infinite and unchallenged values and then not extending it to others is pure hypocrasy!!!
One of my better friends in high school, the captain of the pop quiz team since 10th grade, the one guy who I always knew would beat me out in any test of the mind, even if I bested everyone else, the most well-read guy in the school, and I mean more than most of the teachers, too, was also a 2-sport varsity athlete. Those sports being Football and Lacrosse. Jock? Nerd? Take your pick. My preferred term was "friend". Interestingly enough, I don't recall seeing him at the dances...
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
So why don't you do us all a favor and mellow out? It's a lot better for your blood pressure than tilting at windmills.
Chris Tembreull
Web Developer, NEC Systems, Inc.
Chris Tembreull
"My karma just ran over your dogma."
shit man...you're a wreck...find a bridge....
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
"Some phrases should technically have had quotes around them."
"Reading over this now I can see there is a paragraph that should have quotes from the Daily Breeze."
The original story that you submitted, while it looked like you provided the links, made no clear distinction between the original story and your own contributions. The burden of distinguishing between your writing and the original story should not be left to the reader - as the writer that is your responsibility and yours alone, and in that respect, you failed.
It may (we hope) have been an oversight, and perhaps you had no intention to mislead your audience, but this omission did, in fact, constitute plagiarism, and people had every right to openly accuse you and call for a correction.
An apology from you to your editors and readers, for failing to properly attribute sections of your writing, as well as to your accusers for immaturely lashing out, would be appropriate.
I'm sure you'll be much more careful next time.
I remember my friends in higher grades got into that and they had to light candles and shit to get in - I though that was fucked up, too close to cult/religion, and none of them gave a shit about it and were only doing it to look good on their college applications.- --------
the teacher in charge of it approached me and told me that she was very pleased to tell me I had made it, and I told her I was very pleased to turn it down, thanks but no thanks. she acted as if I had just thrown up on her, I don't uderstand why she was so mad. they called my parents and "told on me" and then told the principal and I was called down. all very strange. I never joined them and still got into a better school than anyone that was on it.
so there.
-----------------------------------------
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
I'm not being sarcastic here. The last thing career bureaucrats (including high school principals) want is attention into the way they run their fiefs. That's exactly what our friend Patrick is giving them.
Give 'em hell.
--
Pretend there is some witty statement here.
Let ol' graybeard tell you kiddies about civil disobedience. This is how it works: you announce that you are going to break the law, then you break it. When the cops start cracking heads & throw you in jail, you go peacefully. You don't then sue them for violating your rights. You rely on the moral superiority of your position to win over the majority, who eventually demand that the law be repealed.
"I hope you know /
...Oh yeah?"
that this will go down /
on your permanent record... /
-- The Violent Femmes
I'd be amazed if any of this were enough to generate a *real* permanent record, (an FBI file, that is...) but it would be very silly and entertaining as hell if someone had something this stupid catch up with them.
("Mr. Bush, we have here that you got suspended in high school and later tried to have that record expunged. Is that true? You DO know that you have a suspension on your PERMANENT RECORD, right? I'm sorry, but America cannot in good conscience elect a President with such a black mark on his PERMANENT RECORD. We all understand about the drugs and the alcohol and not wanting to serve in the military, that's just business as usual. But MY GOD, MAN, why did you have to get suspended in High School?")
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
How do I know what is really jon
You don't, you halfwit. For all you know his name is Mordecai McWhirters, and he's appropriating the name of Rolling Stone journalist Jon Katz in order to feed his own ego.
The Net is neither an anonymous medium or an identifiable one. Verifying someone's identity is just about as hard as making yourself anonymous.
The better question is, how do I know what's posted here as "original material" really is?
The answer is: you don't. But then again it doesn't matter, because how do you know your local paper is posting original material?
My scorn for the journalistic profession is at a pretty high level. For every decent, ethical journo out there who just wants to print the truth, there are a dozen journos who just want ratings (or readership, or pageviews). But my scorn is based on reason, not hypocrisy.
So far, while I often vigorously disagree with Jon's writings (just ask him--he's got an email box full of loud disagreement from me), I have not once had cause to doubt his ethics. I still don't have cause today.
Plagiarism is the worst charge you can file against a journo. It is also a charge which has a very clear definition: appropriating another's work as one's own. How can he "appropriate another's work as his own" when he linked to the original story?
If you really think he's a plagiarist, then you're also going to have to think he's the world's stupidest plagiarist, if he's going to plagiarize something and provide a link for all of us to see the original material.
The irony isn't lost on me, you addle-brained moron. The common cry on Slashdot is "geeks suffer prejudice! Geeks are discriminated against! Geeks are unfairly judged!" And what are you doing? You're turning around and unfairly judging someone else.
I don't like most of Jon's writings.
I don't agree with his political philosophy.
But, by God, I will be Goddamned before I stand around and watch someone be crucified by the very people who rant, scream and wail about how horrible crucifixions are!
Yeah, right...
And the niggers should stay on the back of the bus, women should stay in the kitchen, and I should have let all the "socially normal" cool kids at school kick the shit out of me.
Fuck you and and take your notion of "socially normal" and cram it up your ass.
I don't normally flame like this, or respond to flaimbait at all, but this asshole is just pissing me off...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
...why can't I?
What is the point in discussing whether his individuality was supressed? Are we suggesting that we now pressure kids to *become* individualistic? Isn't that a form of conformation in itself? What happens when we become a nation of people who are all individualistic, then is the conformist pressured into becoming and individual? What's the goal here? It's still pressure nonetheless.
At any given point in time people are going to be pressured and compared to others. Whether its a "popularity contest" or "pit[ting] students against one another" the competition is going to exist, it's human nature. It's NOT going away...EVER.
Making a statement like he did is silly, but his choice. Thankfully, he is able to express his individuality and suffer minimal consequences in our society. What he did was extreme and likely sounds embarrassing to the faculty. If he wanted to rebuke the "system" he could have never stood in the line and put himself in a spotlight specifically for the purpose of defying the authority of the school holding a school-sponsored event.
What the school did was silly and I hope they do get negative publicity, in effect forcing the faculty to comply to social pressure from the outside instead of allowing the school to be "individualistic."
I agree that bright, idiosyncratic and creative kids are not given an ideal playground in the schools in which to truly become their best, but bucking a system just because it's there with no solution is certainly not the way to improve things.
Jayson
Never go to sea with two chronometers; take one or three.
despite pretending not to care, i doubt there's a single high school outcast who didn't pray to god every day hoping to be cool for just 5 minutes.
I didn't, and i know alot of people not in the popular clique that didn't. Most outside saw them for the shallow people they really were.
"Don't pull a stunt, take a stand"
Uh .. thats exactly what he did, he took a stand, and in a way that brought far more attention to his opinions than a pathetic letter to some editor, even if published, would have received.
I would be extremely proud if it were my son. Most people are so easy to subject into conformist behaviour, and the entire school system is designed to encourage it - you have to follow hundreds of pathetic, completely meaningless rules, the value system is completely warped, you are encouraged to not think, etc.
"On the other hand if he wrote a paper or letter to the editor protesting the Homecoming King/Queen status quo I would applaud him and stand behind his personal conviction"
No; you probably would never have read his letter, nor heard his opinion. Even if you had, you probably would have forgotten about it by lunchtime, and I doubt you would have even discussed it with your friends.
Quite frankly, you sound spineless - you advocate making a protest by going through society's predefined, narrow, ineffective supplied "standard" means of making "protests" - a typical "don't rock the boat" attitude.
I would guess that nothing has changed as the dilineation (sp?) of people into those four groups occurs in your brain. Trust me, crack open any of those supposed groups torsos and you'll find the same iternals. Cliques are just like conceptual art, they don't physically exist, only mentally exist, and both are a joke on humanity. (viral memes anyone?) At best it can be considered a detremental standing wave in which the Set upon which it exists is minds. Best to analyze it and see about dampening or disrupting it into discreet people... (ack, this post is a train wreck. never mix physics, stat, art appreciation, Ender's Game, and 2 pounds of Chewey-Sweet-Tarts)
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
I disagree. You (or your next of kin) have the same options that you'd have if your neighbor's dog bit you or if your dentist pulled the wrong teeth. There has yet to be a law that's prevented individuals from being stupid or negligent, however there are options for those who are harmed by this negligence to seek compensation.
If you're having trouble, use my mirror.
-ted
This veiled threat...
Fact check: if you're smart enough to see the threat, it's not veiled. A veiled threat is one which requires Solomonic wisdom to perceive, or else the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. I've received a few of these.
Fact check: unless someone says I'm going to do this to you, and you won't like it one bit, it's not a threat.
So what's that statement? Answer: frustration. Frustration that the very people he's trying to talk to, the very people he's trying to communicate with, the very people who scream at the top of their lungs that nobody's listening to them, are refusing to listen to him.
Personally, I'd have done a lot more than that.
calls into question everything you've ever written about freedom, democracy, and dissent.
So now free speech is only free when it dovetails with what you want to hear? What about "I may not like what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"? Doesn't Jon have the right to defend himself against his accusers, an equal right to that of his accusers to levy accusations?
If you really were not "into the law", you wouldn't even suggest this possibility.
I have zero faith in the law and I'd suggest that possibility. When someone's been maligned in a public forum, you can either take it on the chin, respond in a public forum, or take it to court and resolve it once and for all.
Just because someone talks about having their day in court doesn't make them an enemy of liberty. It makes them the friend of liberty. One of the most fundamental human rights is the right to be judged fairly.
And let me tell you, your judgment is far from fair.
I can sympathize with Patrick Griffith's gesture, but as they say, "Living well is the best revenge."
Refuse to play the high school social game at all. Get out of high school as quickly as possible, either by GED, or homeschooling, or graduating early. Hopefully earn more at 18 than the high school staff. When one does that, who has time for symbolic gestures?
...is when he gets paid big bucks for the movie rights!
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
... between plagiarism and failure to provide attribution for reprinted text that appears under your byline.
I understand lifting the text as a verbatim quote for editorial purposes. I understand that this would be within "fair use" and is a normal and appripriate editorial device. However, failing to provide attribution, regardless of the link, is deceptive at best, and I don't think that an accusation of plagiarism is out of line.
Better to claim it was a simple editing error than to claim that such accusations were acts of bad faith. And since you obviously CAN edit it in such a way as to provide accurate attribution, and did so (only under fire), you defeat your own argument.
I've been tempted to reach for the button that blocks Katz postings. I think I've just fallen over the fence...
http://drteknikal.blogspot.com/
What WOULD happen is by some freakish twist of Fate, Nader WON... And then just walked away? What if he cussed out the political system, and all those who supported him in the process...
What would Washington do? How would his supporters feel?
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
Why is it, that a small case like this, can incite so much replying and posting? Over 400 comments. This issue is obviously something that people care about and are willing to discuss to no end. Why is that? My own theory is that despite the fact that high school and it's people is described as trianing for the real (unfair) world, it has marked us all enough to leave very real memories on us. All the hurts, resentments, and good times we had changed us for sure, and I think that no matter what people say, high school is a large force, and we all have some issues with it.
At Rice University, there is enough geekiness and enough backlash against conformity that we were able to select totally meaningless (and humorous) figures as our homecoming king and queen, making a statement in the process.
My junior year the student body voted the Transco Tower (a corporate skyscraper in downtown Houston) homecoming king and Richard Smalley (that egotistical, Nobel-prize-in-chemistry-winning, buckyball-molesting piece of shit excuse for a Chem102 professor) as homecoming queen.
I think the best part was the response from the receptionist in the main lobby of the Transco tower when our student body representative called and informed her that their building would have to make an appearance in our parade.
- "It's just a matter of opinion!" - PRIMUS
For years Jon Katz prolifically writes what is clearly his own original material; he paraquotes one article, gives credit to the article *in front of the article*, and suddenly some pathetic whiner with absolutely nothing to show for his life is accusing him of plaguarism? I don't think so. How many of the rest of you whining about Katz can actually claim to have produced anything useful in your lives? Instead of sitting around complaining about other people who are doing more for society than you are, go out and do something constructive yourselves.
I can understand that some people might simply not like Katz' work. That is fine, it is healthy and normal for people to have differing opinions, and nobody who has ever produced anything has been without critics. But the reaction many people here have to Katz is clearly beyond "healthy and normal"; they react to his posts like they represent some kind of personal, emotional attack on them, becoming zealously and aggressively defensive. I don't see how one person's opinions can provoke such over-emotional reactions unless there is some sort of personal 'emotional involvement' on the part of the people overreacting. Psychologically, it's basically the idea that if something can upset you so much, it must hold some real meaning for you .. (or it's 'projection' .. )
Actually, I'm not sure of the origins of Homecoming. Is anybody else?
jonkatz@slashdot.org
I was just turning the parent post's subject line around.
To the flamers: chill...
Now hiring experienced client- & server-side developers
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
One of the *only* sensible things ever to come out of Bill Gates' mouth, IMO, was the statement "be nice to nerds, you'll probably be working for one some day." (Hopefully most will be working for somewhat less egotistic and heartless nerds than Bill. I'm sure he had a highly paid scriptwriter create that statement for hiim anyway.) Being a nerd in charge of 60 wonderful and dedicated people, I'm hoping I'm living up to that in a more positive way :-)
To all the nerds in school, where things often look pretty bleak; hang on until University, and you find you're not alone, and that thirst for knowledge can be rewarded. And post-university, the sky's the limit!
Nerds and Geeks rule! (Or at least we will shortly :-)
-me
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I know posts similar to this have been made on many other occasions on slashdot, but I just want to play devils advocate here.
There is a distinct difference between a jock and an athlete. An athlete is a person who enjoys sports. A Jock is someone who enjoys sports and is an asshole about it.
Jocks tend to be the overly macho bloated head dickhead fuckfaces that I felt like tossing into an industrial size blender and hitting puree.. You know the type.
Athletes I dont mind.. I had several friends who were on sports teams that were cool.
no
I suggest you come to terms with the fact that your son has his own life to lead and own decisions to make and that he'll do what he wants whether you like it or not.
That having been said, I would pay attention to what he's trying to say, not how he's saying it. Far too many noble people in our past have been punished or killed because everyone was too busy disapproving not of what they were saying, but how they were saying it. It makes me truly sad.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
"Anyone familiar with my work, regardless of what you think of it, will see meticulous attribution to all information that doesn't come from me."
Really?
I wrote a nasty-gram to you several months ago that chapped your thin-skinned ass so badly that you wrote a series of articles that were basically whines about how people aren't very nice to you.
Not only did you misquote me, you did it in such a way to make yourself sound better. Not only are you inaccurate, you're manipulative.
Why are you still here? Please die. With sugar on top.
(For those curious about what I really wrote, search the above linked page for 'Talisman' or just look for reply #79)
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
...on his head. Then he could have have telekinetically locked all the exits and wasted the bastards one by one with newly acquired Evil Powers! ...
I used to have a sig, but I traded it in for a glock!
"It may (we hope) have been an oversight, and perhaps you had no intention to mislead your audience, but this omission did, in fact, constitute plagiarism, and people had every right to openly accuse you and call for a correction"
Oh come on .. anyone with half a brain can tell that Jon Katz is not by any means a plagiarist. He's been contributing original material to /. for many months, and been writing for decades. Let's be rational about this; if he did make a mistake now, it was obviously a tiny one out of a very prolific career .. you people harp on this one miniscule incident as if it defines his entire writing career or something. That's clearly a load of crap.
This really is a non-issue. Drop it already, and leave the guy alone. You don't have to keep attacking him.
Errm, Netware 3.xx requires a 386 minimum as it's a 32 bit OS. And IIRC it first came out in the early '90s.
Suspention is just a paid vacation from hell. i got suspended for 2 weeks for hacking(they didnt have any passwords and i was browsing network neiborhood)the principals computer. I got my revenge though, passed out the combos to all the lockers and made them replace all the locks! and went to mac world san fransisco while suspended. suspention is fun! enjoy it!
-and occasionaly a giant moose.
According to the article, it's the parent's of the kid who want his record expunged. They don't really say whether or not he wants that.
Regarding universities, I'd be inclined to disagree with you. Every university I know of is exactly like a school in the regard that it holds it's image above the welfare of it's own students. Better to sacrifice a few students here and there, even good ones, if it avoids the possibility of the University getting negative press.
I remember the University I went to kept adding extra charges to all the courses .. extra charges for lab use, for photocopies .. every possible expense was (over)charged - still the university claimed they were struggling so much with money - but damn, did they have the most beautiful, well-maintained gardens such as I've seldom seen anywhere else. Strange.
Of course, it isn't the gardens that lead me to my opinions .. it's other incidents I somehow got involved in .. but thats another story ..
They suspended him because he didn't accept the crown. What did they want him to do, walk in with a gun to make his point? More and more, "educators" are proving themselves to be in that field because they are worthless anywhere else.
A great example of reading what you want to see, rather than what is actually there.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Abuse of Power must be challenged, of course. And the consequences must be accepted as part of the protest. People who get the crap kicked out of them in the streets while protesting the NWO, er, sorry, WTO in Seattle should have expected that. That "butterfly" girl who sat in a tree month after month accepted the cold and wet as part of her protest. Etc... For all that, to ask that his record be expunged is to say, in essence: "Now that I have protested, you have to prove that I have made a difference by admitting that you were wrong." It doesn't work like that. It is harder to change the system than that. But you get the support of (where have we heard this before) "thousands and thousands of posts" - the modern www form of protest and social change. This is what you get. And the hopes that maybe they will stop having Homecoming Kings and Queens in the future. Did Thoreau get his record expunged? I doubt it.
On a related note, and one which I feel is much much more justified because it tries to bring attention to an alarming trend: Remember that kid who got suspended for wearing a Pepsi shirt to school on "Coke Day"?
Dude, why don't you write an article about how wrong Homecoming Day is and submit it to the local school paper? Articulate your beliefs and how they led to this nationalized scandal. We will probably be interested in hearing your side now, in more than a few newsquote quips. Stop trying to sound like a victim, it is beneath the dignity of a proponent of civil disobedience.
SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
...is that a person is raised into a religion, but enters into a cult of his own free will as a responsible adult.
I'm sure this is a moderately famous quote, but I can't seem to find through google. R.A. Heinlein used it in an essay about the cultural decay of America (unfortunately I don't have the book - Expanded Universe - it's in right now).
He added words to the effect that a religion is a comfortable habit in a stable culture of a man who goes to church every Sunday. He has a vague sort of belief he avoids openly questioning (in fact he views any attempt to apply logic to his religion as boorish), but generally when he goes to church he is more concerned with keeping in touch with the community and next week's church picnic than the promise of glorious life everlasting and the threat of eternal torment in hell.
Regardless of which religion, or how devout the worshipers, it is a good sign for the community for these things to be stable, for the herd to all change attitudes gradually in the same way, not for individuals to be rejecting it and heading off on their own.
Hypocracy in religion is healthy.
So an American raised in a Christian community taking up Buddhism is joining a cult, and so is a Mongol who decides to get baptized into some sect of Christianity. These are people who look at a religion from the outside, as grown, presumably reasonable adults, with a clear view of all the contractions and persecutions of the past, with the certain knowledge that it will cause awkwardness in social life, and says "This is for me!"
There are two main reasons for this: honest belief in the religion, or wishing to set oneself apart from their society. Whichever is the case, cult popularity is a very bad sign for the culture it is happening in. In the first case, it shows that people are being poorly educated: the culture has failed in both vital tasks of indoctrinating them in the norms of society, and in imbuing them with a capacity for reason. In the second case, it shows that people are viewing their culture as something they don't want to be associated with. Very bad signs indeed.
This isn't to say that the cults themselves (and all such radical rejection of cultural norms) are necessarily destructive, but a symptom of a deeper problem. Christianity couldn't have gained a foothold in the Roman Empire unless it was a seriously sick society (bread and circuses, vote selling, debasement of coins, et c.).
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From dictionary.com (a proper attribution)
plagiarism n 1: a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work 2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own
The point is you did _not_ attribute at all when you know darn well you should have. The daily breeze was linked but not credited. The link was 'officials suspended him', rather than 'as reported by' or 'sourced from' the daily breeze. The name 'daily breeze' appears nowhere in your article. Would it be appropriate for me to post 'romeo and juliet by Greg@RageNet' and have a link at the bottom 'hemlock poison' that points to the original by Shakespere? I think not.
I appreciate Hemos coming along and fixing your screwup to keep Slashdot out of hot water. Obviously some of the staff at slashdot agree with my position that what you did was wrong.
So lets, analize this word for word; although the story has been updated (twice) since my first posting the following is all based on the original.
The second paragraph is direct copies breeze paragraphs 5 and 6, followed by your comment in brackets. The third paragraph follows the exact flow of the breeze article sentence-for-sentence with minor modifications, such as changing 'indicted' to 'charged'. Again the begining of the fourth paragraph follows the flow of the breeze article with minor changes to wording.
Some phrases should technically have had quotes around them.
As something slashdotters can relate to, this is no better than building some propriatary software and using a snippet here and a snippet there of GPL code. Adhering to the GPL for a few snippets of code may be a 'technicality' to some but others take it very seriously.
-- Greg
Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
I see no indication that this kid is 'socially backward'. Any proof or just your assumption?
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
Detention is pretty much the catch-all solution, just like jail time in the "real world"..
How much time you serve is determined by how bad your crime was..
There is a huge difference between detention and suspension though, and that is how it looks to prospective colleges... detention is pretty common, suspension isn't (in my school, I can only think of a handful of kids that didn't have detention at least once).. you got detention for smoking on school property - I can't imagine any college or university rejecting someone for that.
suspension was reserved for kids with serious discipline problems - your examples of offensiveness to teachers and bullying don't neccessarily have to mean suspension, unless other methods (such as detention) don't work.
Hypocracy in religion is healthy.
That's "hypocrisy".
with a clear view of all the contractions and persecutions of the past
That's "contradictions".
Sorry.
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this is not about any of that, it is about being forced to participate in somthing you dislike and do not agree with. we ARE excluded from things in highschool and are told to "conform" with the rest. Most people are too scared or too stupid to be able to think for themselves and be different. it is the institution that forces them to do these things and forces them to make such strong choices. If we had it our way we would be accepted and our values and views respected, just as we respect those of others who do "conform". we are not the ones who are hurting and insulting and making the lives of freethinkers terrible to live in. It is the "main stream" groups that do it to us! try reading some of the HELLMOUTH stories. I have seen and heard more than i could ever repeat, but NEVER have i EVER seen or read one from the other side, one form the poeple who sonfrom to what the general pubic system says to. Get your head out of your ass and maybe you will see that it what is happening today and the problem is growing.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
because some people enjoy it.
I enjoy homecoming a lot more now that I'm in college than I did in high school, but if I felt then as I do now, I'd be happy it was there.
A "true" homecoming is rather entertaining, actually, where all the old alumni come back and we get to find out what the house and the campus used to be like.
I completely agree with just about everything you said. I have many of the same view points as you do and I've seen and experienced alot of the same. Why? Because I was new at my school and one of the more popular guys decided he didn't like me. What kind of bull is that?
;-)
But these tribulations made us into the people we are and I'm saddened everytime I think back on it. Not because I feel sorry for myself, but because it reflects on our culture, our society and humanity as a whole.
pssst... I'm still a kid too(21)...
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
Homecoming is an annual celebration/event held at most schools and colleges, usually in mid-autumn, where alumni of the institution are encouraged to return and revel in their shared nostalgia/school-spirit/what-have-you.
The celebration lasts anywhere from a few days to a week, includes some or all of these events: a parade, a dance, a game of football (that's American football, not soccer) with an easily-beaten opponent, and the appointment of a pseudo-royal Homecoming Court.
The Homecoming Court is composed of an arbitrary number of couples, headed by a Homecoming King and Queen. Methods of selection vary. Sometimes they are chosen from and by the student body at large. More traditional schools reserve participation for the members of the football team and their personally selected escorts.
The duties of the Homecoming Court are largely ceremonial, and their origin and purpose are lost to the mists of time. Very often, it amounts to little more than the women putting on fancy dresses, appearing in the parade, and then viewing the game from a special dais near the field sideline.
On a more personal note, I have attended exactly one Homecoming celebration in the ten years since I left high school, merely because I happened to be back home for a friend's wedding and had nothing else to do. I didn't run into any of my old friends, but I did see a number of former in-crowd classmates, who apparently never left the county, cheering their little hearts out.
Our team lost 28-7.
Ned Flanders, I mock your value system. You also appear foolish to the eyes of others.
Well put. :-)
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
I had the misfortune of being nominated for homecoming king in high school, as a not-that-funny-joke by the waterpolo team. Nobody consulted me. Nobody asked me. I personally found the whole thing frustrating and humiliating.
Fortunatly, some of the administration was probably slightly paranoid [1]. There was a rumor that I won the ballot, but was removed from consideration because there was a high likelyhood that I wouldn't show.
[1] (Most of) the teachers loved me [2], the administrators hated me. I had, and still have, a general thing against pigheaded, stupid, and incompetent administrators. And they knew it.
[2] With the notable exception of the bastard who ran MUN. Something about humiliating his daughter and outcompeting the seniors as a freshman ticked him off. Serves him right, the bastard. AP US history was better anyway.
Nicholas C Weaver
nweaver@cs.berkeley.edu
Test your net with Netalyzr
This is significant, because Mira Costa is one of the most conformist schools in the country. It is as if you took Columbine and moved it next to the Pacific Ocean. Mira Costa is located in Manhattan Beach, CA, a very nice, well-to-do beach down south of LA. Most of the students there are your usual trendies, popularity whores, and others who place too much value on insiginifcant things.
My girlfriend went to Costa for her freshman year of high school (1995-96), and I know many others from that school. There are a wealth of intelligent, creative, interesting people there, but they tend to get buried beneath the usual layers of bureaucracy and stifling of free expression that is endemic at American schools.
The social atmosphere there was described to me as "oppressive". My girlfriend was one who you would have thought would fit in well--blond hair, white skin, very good-looking--but she refused to play the game, refused to socialize and conform. There is even a patch of grass on the campus where only seniors are allowed, and there was even hazing of freshmen--something I didn't think occurred at Southern California schools. She was happy to move to another school further up the coast, and she told me that she didn't think that her sanity would have survived Costa had she stayed.
To hear, then, that the person who was voted Homecoming King decided to make this kind of statement is an extremely gratifying thing. It shows that, as I've personally seen and suspected, there are a LOT of people who feel exactly as he did, but don't speak out about it or who are not heard.
At the same time, it is very depressing to hear of the MCHS administration's reaction to this statement. It proves yet again that our Constitutional protections of free speech are not respected at our schools, where they're trampled upon by petty dictators (i.e. principals) who see any independent student discussion or speech as threatening.
To me, you cannot have a good education without being allowed to learn how to use your mind. If anyone wonders why our schools are so bad, they might do well to look at how our natural (God-given for you religious folks) curiosities and intellectual talents are beaten down in the name of conformity. And unless people are given outlets for their anger, given ways to express their frustration via free speech, this pent-up feelings could well explode as it did in Colorado in April 1999.
In the end, though, I think this person's act of defiance is a very bright silver lining. If a popular student at Mira Costa can see the idiocy and harm the system causes and actually speak out about it in this small, symbolic way, then there is hope for the schools and teenagers across the country.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
-John Lennon
This garbage about not using the right outlet for his dissatifaction is their way of saying, "You shouldn't have dissed us publically. You should have told us in private where we could have placated, then ignored you."
Of course, they are retalliating with a proportional response. Morons couldn't figure out that this was going to cause even MORE bad press. If they had just left the kid alone, it never would have made papers, in all likelyhood. They played right into the kids hands.
So what's my point? My point is that in my experience, school administrators are the establishment that the kid rejected. He didn't reject the crown, he rejected the entire school, so they suspended him for INSULTING them.
I'm stunned that it took this long for something like this to hit the press. Good for Griffiths!
The schools mostly get around the concept of what would be considered 'illegal' locker searches by saying that the lockers are theirs anyway. I remember a teacher telling us to just keep everything in bookbags or duffels in our locker, because anything that was in the open they could search for and see... but anything in a closed container is personal property, and if they open my personal property to find something then lawsuits can fall like rain.
I wish there was a choice that said "Factually Wrong -1" when I mod.
Fine, but that has nothing to do with getting an education. In fact by its misplaced reverence for the school and its attempt to generate in students an emotional response I believe it (homecoming, rallys, etc) should be viewed as a religious celebration. I won't stop you but please take it off of public school grounds thankyou. When I pay my property taxes I prefer to think that not one penny is going to this tripe.
"The approach he took got his message out much more effectively. Would we be discussing this incident here on Slashdot if he had merely made a speech?"
Actually would we be discussing if the school hadn't suspended him? Maybe the only reason this has gotten so much attention is because the school stood up for the values of the society we live in? Its sad, I know but this is the world we live in, and its sick that the education system of all things cant see past that.
As strange as it is I know I wouldn't be the person I am today if it wasn't for the social oppression placed on b-movie nerds like me. With that I have to wonder if its so bad that the system pushes us down to the bottom of social cycles, and intern teaching us how to be individuals and live on our own terms.
Fr05t has quit ICQ (Erection reset by beer)
Kudos to /. for continuing to run Katz's stories. Without his journalism this site would simply be another techie forum. With it, /. puts itself at the forefront of web sites.
I hope Katz doesn't take all this shit too seriously. He's doing some great stuff here; I only hope that the multitude of small-minded idiots here doesn't take away from that.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
-John Lennon
this just shows how most adults never grow out of the high school mentality. they grow up, get jobs, and still can't see through the childish BS of their glory years.
Had the administrators simply cancelled all the various seasonal rite-of-passage rituals that at least some seniors may have been looking forward to, then they'd have made their own point much more effectively, rather than making Mr. Griffith's for him.
I sometimes wonder whether we should worry about entrusting our children's education to people so irony impaired. Maybe we should be providing them with (intellectually) tougher opposition. The best you can say is, "they're dense, but fortunately they also happen to be ineffectual."
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I think one of the best ways to combat violence in our schools is to encourage respect for the rights of those who are imprisoned in them. I have already sent my objection to the principal of the school -- c/o the school's webmaster. Now I am interested in contributing a little $$ to whatever legal fund the Griffiths may be getting together. If anyone knows how to get in touch with the Griffiths, please post so we can show our support.
"as well as being in the JROTC program"
Hm, conformity and military service go hand-in-hand. Are we talking about a Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps member, bucking authority "every chance you got"?
Get 'im another bucket of 'taters to peel. He'll be on KP for a while longer.
[
I hope I am wrong....
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
I used to live in Manhattan Beach before I came up to UC Santa Barbara, and this is exactly the mentality of most of the people there. The vast majority of the people there are vain and more concerned with their own prestige than the real issues that affect the community.
I remember when the High School (Check out http://www.manhattan.k12.ca.us) conducted a "sting" operation and after arresting a total of three or so people, declared the school free from drugs. They could care less what's really going on so long as their image isn't tarnished.
The funny thing is I kind of know this guy. His friend's band was banned from playing in the school quad because one of the members was wearing a shirt that made reference to him being gay. His father was in the ACLU and immediately threatened the district with a lawsuit if his band wasn't allowed to play. The school took the easy way out that time....
In a community that values only superficiality, it's no suprise that this would happen.
Dan
(Yeah, when I was there, I was on the Winter Court- Wooh hoo!)
Now, try #linuxhelp on undernet - one would think that this is a logical step BEFORE #linux, but generally not the case. The ops are helpful, knowledgeable, and manage to get most questions answered. The type that don't get answered are the, "Howz do I set up mailz??!" type of question. And even those get a good deal of help, considering their utter stupidity and lack of any intelligence - anyone that has any information at all about linux should know at least some semblance of what sendmail is. Even script kiddies know this. It's name itself even expresses what it is!
Granted, there are kicks and bans in #linuxhelp - but with warrant. Once again, look in the right places. It's generally not a good idea to go to microsoft.com and look for the latest software patches for linux - because they're not available there. Common sence, people - use it. :)
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CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
I say good for him, he is right. The school systems today are horribly antiquated, our system of learning here in the US was thought up in order to produce docile factory workers who would speak when spoken to and be able to perform repetitive tasks without ever even thinking that they could be doing something more. We are far past the time of factory workers and our education system should reflect that. Its time to start teaching our children to be free thinking humans, not drones.
Well thats what I think anyway =)
fone
"You are only the sum of your thoughts."
Boy, I'm glad I wasn't the only one.
Typically, the new-age psycho-analyzers say that you claiming you are trying to think for yourself means you just feel insecure with who you are and that is why you didn't 'fit-in'. Frankly, I'm with you. I didn't fit in because I didn't want to. If fitting in meant drinking, shooting up, and driving your car into a tree (or something equally intelligent), then I could do without it thanks.
Bite my yammer.
IMHO, these school officials need to undergo psychiatric evaluation to determine their fitness for continued employment in the education profession.
Calling him "selfish" is just a little bit out of line. Some friends of mine actually threatened to do there very same thing with me -- nominate me and then try to get everyone they could to vote for me so that on the off-chance I won I could stand up at the podium and refuse the crown just to show everyone how ridiculous the whole thing was. (I told them not to do it, since I'm sure my school would have done the same thing they did to this guy to me; while I was hardly a trouble-maker, I was a very vocal opponent of many of the school's practices and policies, and they probably wouldn't have had a whole lot of patience with me.)
What this student did was make an admirable statement -- he wasn't willing to even be a part of the institution that he opposed, so he just left. Plus, just walking off the spot is much less dicey than actually saying something -- if he said something that someone could possibly take as offensive or negative, then the school could legally use it as an excuse to suspend him. The school certainly couldn't suspend him on the grounds of what he didn't say, so he has much more grounds for appeal since he kept silent.
I disagree that he should have even been escorted out. He wasn't causing a disruption; he simply refused to participate in an activity that he wasn't obligated to participate in. He never signed any legal document stating that by being nominated or by attending the prom he had to agree to accept the crown -- since the school never prohibited it, he had the option to not accept the crown all along, and it's neither right nor legal for the school to simply make up rules when he does something that they don't like and then punish him retroactively.
yes, if nerds were eliminated and ONLY sports jocks allowed in the world parents could actually spend more time at home looking and tending to their kids etc. instead of being forced to work longer and longer hours due to new technology coming in all the time etc. Stress would reduce to unheard of levels etc. Also longevity and national fitness and health would rise to unbolevable levels.
It may (we hope) have been an oversight, and perhaps you had no intention to mislead your audience, but this omission did, in fact, constitute plagiarism, and people had every right to openly accuse you and call for a correction.
To rise to the standard of plagiarism an act of literary misappropriation requires the intent to steal anothers work and pass it off as your own. This intent can be inferred a number of ways: when the extent of the misappropriation is extensive; if there are steps taken to disguise the source. In this case, providing a link to the original source is pretty clear evidence that there was no intent to commit plagiarism.
This is no mere quibble -- it's the intent to defraud the reader and deprive the author that makes plagiarism an odious literary crime. What we have here is more of a faux paux, or perhaps a kind of literary misdemeanor bearing the same relationship to plagiarism that reckless endangerment has to premedidated murder. Where there is no intent to commit plagiarism, there cannot be plagiarism.
The passages quoted are neither so extensive nor scintillating that they would warrant any plagiarist's attention. There's just too many damned people in this world who like to wait in the bushes and jump out to say "Gotcha!"
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Bah - these people were abused children and having nothing better to do with their time than to attempt to pull people down into their misgotten boring little lives.
I for one couldnt' have cared less whether you plagerized it or not. And if I did, I'd have e-mailed you directly. This is a primary problem with the internet. People who would normally conduct themselves in a civil manner suddenly think they are driving a car - that is to say they do whatever they want despite how rude or moronic it may be.
The Game Guy
This even happened to me during high school, so I'm not being delusional. During my junior year of high school, I discovered that my computer account was disabled. I E-mailed the system administrator, who told me to talk with my principal, who wanted my accound disabled.
I met with the principal, who told me that my account was terminated because it contained copies of three copyrighted programs on the school computers. It quickly became obvious that someone stole my password for my account and used it to copy copyrighted software onto my account. This is quite easily accomplished, since our passwords were our student ID numbers, and we were required to wear our IDs around our neck at all times (something I was a vocal opponent of), and we couldn't change our passwords. After seeing the list of what was on my account, it was obvious that this is exactly what happened -- someone (I still don't know who) who didn't like me decided to get me in trouble and didn't have much difficulty doing it thanks to the school's computer "security" system.
What made me mad wasn't the fact that it was disabled; I could more or less care less if I did in fact copy those programs, because that's the consequences you suffer for breaking the law. What angered me was that after politely telling my principal that I didn't do it, he told me that I would have to find out who did it myself and get him/her to confess to it before I would get my account back. That is quite clearly against their own rules -- copying the model in the Constitution, the school district's rules say that they can't do anything to me unless they can prove I did it, and they can't make me prove my innocence. He even said that I should have been grateful that he didn't call the police.
The only way I got them to back down was by coming back the next day and politely telling him that they should go ahead and call in the police and ask them to press criminal charges, and we would see who the police sided with. I even offered to dial the phone for him. Needless to say, the principal quickly changed his mind once he saw he was dealing with someone who understood his rights.
The point I'm making here is that the school didn't really care what was right or legal when they dealt out the punishment because of who I was. Although I'm not exactly a trouble-maker (I have no criminal record, and my school record is spotless, and my teachers would say that I was a model student) I was (and still am) a dissident of sorts. I was a vocal opponent of a number of the school's policies, and they were just looking for something to nail me with.
Lest you think this is sour grapes, I can cite case after case from our school alone where our school dealt harshly with people who acted just slightly out of the norm. A group of students, who felt that our pep rallies had become too much like 1984-ish loyalty tests, protested by reading newspapers during the pep rally, and they were given detentions. Letters to the editor in the school newspaper in opposition of school decisions have been censored. And a meeting used to pass a matter that was kept a secret for months and that many students opposed was the information was accidentally (?) leaked by a teacher inadvertently (?) leaving a memo from one of the closed meetings in the library, was not announced and was scheduled in conflict of an extra-curricular activity that many of the vocal students attended. (Or perhaps better stated, would have attended -- the meeting was flooded by angry students and parents nonetheless.)
The point I'm trying to make is that today American school systems (excluding higher education, who are thankfully mostly free from such problems) train their students for absolutely loyalty, and they punish anyone who disagrees with them. I'm not the only one to complain about this -- both fellow students and teachers have told me they agree, though they wouldn't tell the administration so. The school in question here apparently decided that they didn't like the student giving other people at the prom ideas, so they shut him down. What better way to make an example of what happens to you if you oppose policy than to publicly punish him at a heavily-attended school function?
Do admire what he did? Absolutely. Do I agree with you? Of course. Do I think it matters? No. So long as we as a society put up with the current school system, this is going to keep happening. Personally this scares me; my school robbed me of my faith in democracy and in education, and I don't want this to happen to future generations.
and snorted coke! Of course he should be president!
I am _certainly_ not suggesting that children (or adults, for that matter) should be abused! As far as your incident - sounds kinda like what happens to NBA & NFL players doesn't it? Not fair - but it is reality...
The Game Guy
A column by Daily Breeze writer John Bogert."It's Stalag 18 with ideals by Locke and Jefferson."
I'd say in my case, action films are actually interesting, exciting, and often get the adrenaline flowing. "Chick flicks," on the other hand, are almost always whiny, self-indulgent, and celebrate the awful painful way people in our society seem to like to go through relationships. Since I'm a relatively cynical person, I tend to reject the cheap ploys to "tug at the heartstrings" so often as well. If I'm going to see a movie with idiots making poor personal decisions, it might as well have some interesting action in it as well.
As for cerebral pictures, I'd have to agree with you there, I like an interesting one as well.
I'm not saying they do a good job, but I think it's fair to point out that academic education isn't the one and only goal of our school systems.
They're supposed to expose our children to people who are different than they are. They're supposed to take a primary role in the socialization of our children. They're supposed to balance discipline with free expression, and security with discretion.
In school, our children should learn to deal with controversy and adversity. It isn't the purpose of the schools to shield them from these things, but to help them develop the skills to deal with them, and lay the foundation of knowledge that will allow the student to develop the wisdom to transcend them.
As such, competition, even popularity contests, are more than appropriate. "Everyone's a winner" is bullshit, and teaching that does a disservice to the students, and to the society we'll unleash them on.
I'd be a different person if I'd learned better social skills while I was in high school. Was I "at risk" to the point where the school should have intervened? No. Would I be a better person? Probably, but probably not as successful.
Who do I blame? Myself, first and foremost. My parents - between being an only child of a single mother, then being kept under the thumb of an asshole step-father - let's just say that my shrink spent most of his time convincing me I wasn't as screwed up as other people wanted me to believe I was. My school? No. Much as things have changed in the last 20 years, when I went to high school, they still made the jocks who stuffed me in my locker pay for it. They tolerated and even encouraged weirdness as long as it was tempered by intelligence and creativity. When I got beat up by a girl, they made me take another semester of PhysEd. But they let us show monster movies as fund raisers, take over the PA system, and cause all sorts of legitimate weirdness because we were "gifted".
These days, it seems like most parents and schools have refused to take the responsibilty. When zero-tolerance replaces discretion and judgement, that's not responsibility. When parents expect the schools to protect their children from ideas rather than to challenge them, that's tantamount to child abuse.
But the kids still need to be taught. We shouldn't shield them, we should give them the tools to deal with the things we might sheild them from. They need to be taught social skills and how to deal with adversity as much as they need to be taught math and science. And that's mostly a matter of maintaining an environment that's conducive, rather than outlawing everything that anyone's afraid of.
http://drteknikal.blogspot.com/
Is it common practice? It's absolutely *standard* practice. Whenever there is even the faintest shadow of a doubt about the motivations for a dismissal (as there clearly were in your case, as you could point to others who had not been dismissed despite behaving similarly to you) then any normal company would offer you money in exchange for immunity from prosecution.
I myself was made redundant (willingly I must say) during a merger, while contract staff were retained in roles I could have performed. I happily took a year's wages to go quietly - after all I'd only been working there a year!
2 for the price of one, don't knock it.
Oh... just like that Hellmouth book you were going to put in print without crediting the posters. Cry me a river, Katz. I don't have a problem with your posts on /. but it would reflect much better if you'd admit your mistakes and put the issue behind you. Don't dig for sympathy just because people spotted an error and called you on it.
You are posting in a forum for computer geeks. These are people who, in general, have a meticulous attention to detail. I might classify the complaints as nitpicking, but vicious they are not.
SEAL
Such a misfit, so misunderstood, poor unloved baby.
It says that the parents are threatening legal action to protect his college chances. I'd have to say that this sort of thing is exactly the sort of thing that gets kids INTO presegious colleges. It clearly shows his ability to think outside of the box and on his own.
There's an old saying in the acting industry. "The best way to get a job out of acting college is to get thrown out of one".
Oh, please... If I have to see one more disgustingly pathetic JonKatz story, I'm going to
puke all over my keyboard.
High school != Hellmouth, you're just an almost-worthless writer looking for a little publicity, and "Hellmouth" has become your cliched tagline of choice.
Getting through high school is as simple as ignoring the dumbasses. Sure, I've been harassed, and even assaulted (once, presumably as part of someone's gang initiation -- but that wasn't even in high school), so what? If you don't let it get to you, it doesn't hurt that much. There are many morons in the world, and I know darn well they're not worth a second thought.
(And no, the kid should not have been suspended. It's completely ludicrous to bend the rules to castigate someone for something this insignificant. I completely hate his use of "martyr" and "downtrodden", but hey, he's welcome to sensationalize for publicity as much as Katz has for every "article" thus far.)
Accolades to the 100% of us who don't fit the stereotypes we template ourselves and others with. Kudos to all of us for being _human_ and therefore more than what a few words can portray. Applause is due to all of us who 'win,' all of us who 'lose' and all of us who aren't really concerned with 'winning' or 'losing.' Awards are due to everyone who manages to get through another day (good, bad or indifferent) of what we have made.
What am I trying to say? Simple -- that no one is as shallow as any stereotype portrays them to be, hence any template we try to frame others with is inaccurate and fundamentally flawed. 'Jock' and 'nerd' stereotypes don't measure what sort of parents we are, what sort of partners we are, countless other things. So, bravo! to the jocks, the nerds, the outcasts, the goths, the stoners, the winners, the losers, etc. Congratulations, you're human.
Regards,
John
Falling You - beautiful
This year, a good number of students didn't return their applications this year, for a variety of reasons. The most common reason was a lack of community service hours, so we're putting on a luncheon for sophomores and juniors to let them know what Honor Society does at our school, and how they can get involved. I'm sure there were other reasons they didn't turn in their applications, and that's fine - to each his/her own.
However, you shouldn't blame National Honor Society as a whole just because your school's faculty reacted badly to what you said. Personally, I would have dismissed it as immature ranting from someone who didn't understand the service aspects of the organization. Then again, your school's chapter may have been run incorrectly as an elitist organization. Ours on the other hand just painted the largest computer lab in the school a couple weeks ago because the old paint was flaking off and the work order to repaint it would take two years to process in the district. But to be very honest, National Honor Society is not supposed to be something you're in just to add to your resume (although it often is) - it's supposed to enable and encourage you to participate in your community through volunteer service and leadership activities. Anything else means your school's advisor isn't doing his/her job.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
Don't think that just because some outcasts really want to 'fit in' it applies to the rest of us. The entire concept of fitting in never appealed to me at all. And it still doesn't. I'm curious. Does this mean you don't want to fit in to a crowd of jocks, or you don't want to fit in anywhere at all?
Software patents delenda est.
damn it. It really depends on what school you go to if the jocks are stupid or intelegent. Some places the line between jock and ner is faded, others it is sharp. same is true between most other cliques. I dress a bit punkish so usually most of the nerds will avoid me or make cracks at me if I try to approach them. On the other hand the jocks, although not too bright are very freindly, and they will accept me for who I am, at face value.
As for that kid who turned down being king, he has every right to. Its not the Jocks fault, not even the preps who for the most part live up to their snobbish steirotype. Its the schools fault, they are so quick to blame anyone who doesn't agree with them. They are such damn facists. Groups that get hit the hardest are the punkers and the goths, for obvious reasons. They don't want to be like everyone else and they flaunt it in the outlandish clothing they wear. Schools hate this, they also hate anything that would disrupt their precious football tradition(if they have one). Although Jocks are often hailed as heros, and other groups are discourged, this is usually not the Jock's themselves setiment, unless of course the school has a very long winning tradition. Nerds theese days are often highly respected, reason: it is assumed by the majority of the population they are going to get a computer jobs for an ungodly amount of money and become millionares by age 25.
OK, I like the US. Really, I do. There are some things that I also don't like, mostly the same as you guys; corrupt politicians, RIAA, MPAA (All of the above seem to fuck up the whole world, not only the US.)
But then there are thingd that make your country seem downright insane. This would be a good example. If this happened here, the leaders in charge of the suspension would get a really hard reprimande if not fired. It would be considered as serious as removing a human's most basic right to express him / herself.
Also, the concept of 'homecoming' is also largely shunned here. You would have trouble finding an event so elitist and degrading here. It's designed to let people that think as a true individual feel bad about themselves. This kid recieved a punishment for standing out from the crowd and being a symbol of those you can't fit in to the mold.
Only in the US of A!
There are two phrases I should have quoted, mostly knowing that there are people like User 240151 out there.
Heaven knows I like to be part of the in crowd! Maybe I should run for Homecoming King?
MacOS, Windows, BeOS, GNOME, KDE: they're all just Xerox copies
Its manhattan beach for god's sake! Youre just a couple steps down from the snobbery that is palos verdes.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
The war of Nerds vs. Jocks has always seemed silly to me. Both groups seek power and social acceptance, they only differ in method.
Case in point: the ppl who insist that the fact that they have a nice computer job now while their more jockish peers pump gas for a living is a victory.
Everyone deserves to be able to make a decent living, regardless of how much of a shithead they were in HS. To suggest otherwise is to be a shithead outside of HS--which IMHO is less forgivable.
As for the dorkboy who bravely refused his crown:
This lil' nerd has parents willing and finacially eager to sue over something as moot as a suspension. This lil' nerd has enough friends and supporters to successfully win a popularity contest. This lil' nerd not only participated in the contest itself, but served on the student group responsible for organizing the popularity contest.
I think he was looking for some attention to stroke his long hard ego with, with noble intentions thrown in as an excuse.
And here I am giving it to him.
bah,
dorkmonger
Used up my points yesterday :(
Homecoming History The first Homecoming was conceived at the University of Illinois in the fall of 1909, but the down-count for what proved to be a succesful launching didn't come until October 15 of the following year. On that memorable day, for the first time in nine years, Illinois defeated Chicago by a score of 3-0 on a dropkick by Otto Seiler '12. Today, Homecoming is a tradition on just about every college campus in the United States. The late Elmer Ekblaw '10, AM '12, editor of The Daily Illini and one of the most forceful undergraduates in the University, and I were members of the Shield and Trident, a senior honorary society. We met frequently in the office of the Illini to discuss policies of the publication, campus polititcs and, from an undergraduate viewpoint, the desitny of the University which we loved so well. We wanted to do something constructive for Illinois. At long last, the idea of a super reunion began to evolve in our minds. On the way from the Illinioffice to our respective campus homes, we sat down one evening on the YMCA steps for further discussion. Why not a homecoming for alumni and their friends, something like the old New England homecomings, one of us suggested. It was a nostalgic approach. It fired us with the confidence and enthusiasm of youthful dreamers. After further discussion and consideration, we presented the Homecoming idea to Shield and Trident, and later to Phoenix, the other senior society, both of which entusiastically voted to support the project. Ekblaw and I called upon President Edmund James and Dean Thomas Arkle Clark, Class of 1890, who also were convinced that a bang-up Homecoming would rekindle loyalty and interest among alumni and would create favorable publicity, generally. Dr. James and Dean Clark voiced their whole-hearted approval. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Thanks to presidents and other officers of the Alumni Association, editors of alumni and undergraduate publications, and capable undergraduate leaders of appropriate committees, it looks as if Homecoming, as introduced at Illinois in 1910, is here to stay.
--C. F. (Dab) Williams '10, 1960
(upon the 50th anniversary of Homecoming)
BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT.
BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT. BULL SHIT.
I can't comment on the rest of your "post" because I am too busy tossing my cookies over this statement.
Edith Keeler Must Die
How many people just *had to* correct the parent? Even the most accomplished trollkings can not compete with ignorance :)
Software patents delenda est.
The student made a point. The system made a point. Katz wants us to say the system was wrong and the student was right. Why? Because "rights" were at stake? Whos rights? The rights of the student, or the rights of the assembly gathered to observe a time honored activity? There are so many who had rights that were denied because of the actions of others...where did it start?
- real hackers don't have sigs -
I have to fully support this kid, whether he speeched or not, because frankly, he's a KID. Come on now, how perfect were any of us in high school. The point here is not that he was some kind of well prepared Ghandi, it's that he cared enough to try at all to make a statement. I say rally to support this guy immediately. Create as much attention to the situation as possible, and let the media soak in their own stupidity over the school-shootings-craze for once.
When I went to high school, I'm not even sure we had a homecoming king, I certainly don't remember ever seeing or hearing of one. But we did have a queen, and as someone mentioned above there was no "nomination" - people just automatically chose. And of course the same thing happened every year. The school elected a rich, white, popular girl and usually it was whoever slept with the most members of the "A-list." It was basically a racist, classist celebration of frat whores to be.
My year, for the first time in rememberable history (I was well aware of my high school's culture thought older friends before I had gone there) my senior class elected an incredibly sweet person who cared about lots of people and actually did a lot to effect positive change in the community. It was probably the single moment in my public education I ever felt proud about anything. Of course the preps complained and I'm sure they though some computer geek fixed the election somehow, but the fact remains for 5 minutes I actually gave a darn about my hich school and I'll never forget it. What this kid did was awesome, and I hope nobody ever lets anyone forget this either.
SAVE THE BATS
This is really ridiculas, the boy obviously TRIED to win since he appeared at the football game in the first place. Had he been a true scholery and truly opposed to the corrupt school systems of america he would not have went to such a wastefull event as a school athletic competition to begin with. It is his own fault for perticipating in such inane and pointless events. He wanted to make a message and sound "deep" but without disrupting his social life, typical modern american thinking, filthy.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Public school students are treated more and more like prison inmates every day. How can we raise our children to believe in a free society; to respect the ideals of freedom of speech, due process of law, the right to privacy, and the freedom from unreasonable searches by government agents when we deny them those basic rights. Crap like this reinforces my conviction that my daughter should be home-schooled.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
During one day of my senior year of highschool, my homeroom teacher dyslexicly swaped my attendance with another student's, making me appear absent.
I went to all of my classes that day, and got to my 8th period (last) class which I had a final in. The teacher told me that I could not take the final because I had not attended classes during the day and was only attending his final.
Obviously, I was not happy. I tried to get him to let me get signatures by my teachers to say I had attended, tried to get him accompany me to see the teachers, nothing worked. I muttered under my breath, "this is fucked up". He told me that I would have to go to the principal for for not attending classes and for my foul language. I told him that I didn't do anything wrong, and disciplinary action could not be taken if I was not legally in attendance btw, saying whatever the fuck I want is my own fucking right.. but i didn't say that.
I was sent to the principal's office, given in-school suspension, told to get signatures by teachers, and was allowed to take the test.
It was funny that the teacher would only allow me to prove that I was in school for the purpose of hurting, not helping me.
As a parent myself, I would support my daughter 100% for taking a moral stand according to her personal beliefs, EVEN IF I DID NOT PERSONALLY AGREE WITH HER DECISION. She deserves nothing less than my full and unquestioning support. Personally, I think this young man WAS taking a stand -- if he believes that the institution of "homecoming king & queen" is an example of all that is wrong with high school, then he had no other choice BUT to decline; to accept would be hipocritical. A "stunt" would have been to moon the audience; he acted with dignity.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
... and then he dropped the stupid crown they'd given him and walked off the pitch.
I'm a 52 year old geek. I attended that very same school in the early sixties. Guess what folks, nothing has changed.
may i ask what the hell this is about? evidently all of you are full of bs, you won't dare to show your "nick" for fear of being personally flamed. people who need jocks to look up to need to be smacked around and then sent to their corner. all jocks do is piss me off, i get nothing from them except a good laugh
The *really* cool kids understand that the cliques don't stop after high school. The *really* cool kids are able to make their own way in the world without hoping to fit in for just 5 minutes. The *really* cool kids are able to think for themselves. :)
It sounds like somebody took mssr griffith's action personally and allowed their emotions to get the best of them, causing them to over-react. No way should the kid have been suspended for this nonviolent demonstration. It was a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark
But seriously, this needs more exposure. Griffith is guilty only of thoughtcrime, which is NOT punishable in the United States. Had the school admins not suspended him, there would be nothing to talk about (Some random kid refused to take the title of "Homecoming King"- Big Fat Hairy Deal). It is the inane system that is the real story here.
I'd say it was.
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
At my highschool, they had a week long hazing to get into NHS. It essentially amounted to spending a week acting like an idiot to prove how smart you are.
Suffice it to say, I declined filling out an application, and told people that I didn't approve of the initiation ceremony.
-
Just because it works, doesn't mean it isn't broken.
If you're so fucking pathetic that you let something as simple as highschool change you, then you need a good beating. Highschool is nowhere near what real life will be.. when I graduate, I'm taking everything I learned during my years of school and throwing it out the window; it's not useful.. Well most of it.
:) of what ever the fuck they worship... Or the assholes that bring guns to school.. People are so fucking stupid.. If they would have received the end of a belt every once in a while, they would be normal; but noo, it's abuse.. Let's plot junior infront of the TV for a while.. ooh look, he has ADD because he's breaking things.. let's give him medicine.. All he needs is a good spanking to get his ass in gear...
:)
:D
We really could prevent all this highschool BS... The geeks who think they have something to protest, the freaks that insist on being flaming ovbiants (not a word, but what ever.
Fucking wussy parents..
Geez, are we that policitally correct? That's sad.....
I admit, I make fun of people in my school, but they are total morons.. There's one guy that's into dating grade 8's (He's in grade 12).. And there's another guy that acts like a total poindexter, and he follows people around and agrees with everything they say. (Funny ex.. Me and a friend were talking about something we saw on TV, and my friend tends to make strange stuff up a lot.. I knew he was joking, but this sheep boy seemed to think it happened and started saying he has that episode on tape. I think we were talking about Third Watch or something and my friend said that aliens ate the donuts or something.
Point is, dicipline your kids, so they aren't fucking rejects.
-TimmyC, Tech Guru
I just saw your sig. Here is the full thing (properly attributed):
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance
-- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
i just emailed the folks (Tony Lucich [webmaster@manhattan.k12.ca.us]) and got a nice reply-
my message:
"i was wondering about mssr griffith's suspension status. will they take corrective action ande xpunge his records of any "wrongdoing" as a result of his homecoming demonstration? i am keenly interested in this case. thx in advance for any information."
the reply:
"Thank-you for your comments.... I'll get the team together to review and
respond to your idea. Thanks again -Tony"
it's kind of canned, but at least it's nice to get some feedback, eh card?....
Sounds like he should have a Metallica theme song. (thinking I'll be reduced to absolute flame bait here for mentioning the unholy Metallica on /..... i wish you guys would understand that whole thing...)
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
What is electing a "homecoming king and queen" teach our kids, exactly? That some people (the more popular ones, it seems) are somehow better than others? That the way to get places is to be friends with everybody, dress pretty, be cool, fit in, and work the crowd? That successful people are heterosexual?
Bah!
A celebration of everyone's talents would be a more appropriate expression of school pride, if you ask me. If the "brains" get recognition in one fora and the "jocks" get it in another, it's no wonder there's social friction between the two constructed groups. What about all the kids that are good actors or artists or writers or poets or square dancers or singers or like to build cool stuff or are caring and compassionate friends? Where are they at homecoming?
OK. Where else exactly could this have happened? I don't know if people in the USA realise it, but their culture is surprisingly different from other "western" cultures.
I live in Australia. We are a "western" culture. We do not have homecomings (which I had never heard of before this article!), cheerleaders, proms, etc. But even if we did, something like this would not occur. The guy might get blasted by his teachers for doing this (and it's quite reasonable for them to get annoyed) but there is no way that he would get suspended.
The point is that you (this is not a personal attack, I mean "you" as in all other American citizens) should look at yourselves and your country's society. For a so-called "civilised" country, you have an amazingly high murder rate, your political system is flawed (no matter how many people actually stand for the presidency, do you really think that someone other than the nominees of your two parties is going to get elected?) your public figures publically immoral (Clinton can do whatever he likes... the problem is that that lawyer guy, I've forgotten his name now, made it public) your anti-gun-control lobby make advertisments that blatantly lie (there were some a while ago that stated that australia had a much higher gun crime rate or something... very untrue, our gun-related crime rate has dropped incredibly since our new gun laws), etc. I don't mean to rant. I'm just saying that the America you think you live in and the America you really live in are very different things. Does this, where a kid gets suspended for publicly (well, within the school community) making a non-violent, polite statement, really typify your society?
"Go down to God Fearin Amurrcan Heartland and there is a better than average chance the kid's house would've had some windows broken or worse and mom & dad could've caught some shit at work for not raisin' em up raht." My god. Do you realise what this really means about your society?
This wasn't meant to be a rant, just a few observations on US society and how this particular occurrence should not surprise people at all.
"Ford," he said [Arthur Dent]. "you're turning into a penguin. Stop it."
Keep in mind that this incident took place in Singapore, where students are expected to blindly obey their elders for fear of...what's that? This happened in America? Bah.
Popularity contests should never be a part of learning. They defeat the purpose.
-Legion
This is why I love the Web. All questions are answered. Thanks for this.
I also want to thank the very many people who e-mailed me in support about the exchanges regarding this story. Assaults like this remind me why I love writing for
I need to be very careful about issues like attribution, and that's a healthy reminder to get. At the same time, I will never give in to the stupidity and cruelty that constitues a small but very vocal segment of the
jonkatz@slashdot.org
In my opinion, your post signifies an important point. There are all sorts of ways to 'make a statement,' and since persecution against individuality is exactly what's on trial here, maybe we shouldn't be making such a stink about whether the specific method in which a person chooses to 'make a statement' is appropos. I think that since both the kid in the article's story and your story (and hundreds of other stories) have taken the very real and positive steps to perform civil, responsible actions to make an impact, they should be praised, and nothing more.
So bravo, dammit. I hope my kids don't go to the same kind of high school environment I did, and if they don't, I'll remember guys like this.
I'm getting so much e-mail about this column that I feel it's necessary to keep on clarifying, as long as people want to talk about it.
l. There was no intent, directly or indirectly to misrepresent the source of this article. I linked directly to it.
2. My attribution was sloppy. The column was written at midnight, and I didn't think it was going to run, so I didn't go over it. I just didn't get how close the wording was, since I got so much e-mail from so many sources about the story. But since some people obviously weren't clear about the source, I was obviously wrong about the attribution. If it's dont right, there should be no confusion.
3. For that, I happily and fully apologize.
4. For me, this was a turning point. I got a health reminder of the importance of clear attribution, and many, many e-mails from people who had had enough of the brutish nastiness that passes for discussion and criticism among a vocal minority of Slashdot readers. I never got so much praise or support on anything I've written in my life, even from a significant number of people who felt my attribution should have been clearer. They are definitely right. It's the first time it's ever happened to me, to my knowledge, and believe me, it will be the last.
Ultimately criticism is helpful and useful, even when it goes over the line, as I believe this particular attack did.
I am very happy writing here, and plan to be there for as long as Rob, Jeff and Robin want me. I think I have the best job on the Net, and even though a lot of you are e-mailing me encouraging me not to get discouraged by it, the fact is it's left me feeling even better about the place than I did before. Hope this completely clarifies everything, and that we can move on.
jonkatz@slashdot.org
Dear All, Seems to me that he's clearly suffering from ADHD. His lack of ability to concentrate on 'valid authority' figures seems quite symptomatic of the syndrome. Don't worry, though. A full course of Ritalin (which has just been OKed for use in Britain) will soon sort him out. Marios
When I was in HS so long long ago my friends and I made up something called the "Grunt Party." I was the candidate for Student Council President. My platform, as I expressed it in my speech, was that I intended to disband the Student Council altogether, as it was obviously a waste of time and a lot of nonsense. Rumor had it that the Grunt Party candidates all got the majority of votes in their various races - for sure our speeches elicited better, louder laughter from the voters in the audience than all the other candidates put together - but, needless to say, the school administration cancelled our candidacies over some inane technicality. Ah well!
You know, half of my buddies, great guys they were, who were Grunt Party candidates, are dead now.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
That his action was only significant because the administration suspended him.. How different would it have been had when he stepped down the school officials merely smiled, thanked him for running and for making his decision, and had passed the crown on to the runner up?
I hope someone here has the power to moderate the above-linked racist crap.
And losing the homecoming game can be devastating for the career of the home team coach. The most recent casualty is one Mike DuBose, head football coach at the University of Alabama, who had the unmitigated gall to lose his most recent homecoming game against the University of Central Florida (which, as one of the newer football teams at the top level of American college football, is a popular homecoming invitee). Unfortunately for Mr. DuBose, the Alabama faithful had returned home to watch this game.
Mr. DuBose had also been accused of other indiscretions recently, namely sexual harassment, but those activities were not perfomed in front of the monied alumni.
Suppose I wouldn't have run for an office and then refused it. School should just have chosen a second-best-king. Not a bad thing for the new king to realize he was second-best. Certainly understand the protestor's point of view , however. I went to a Christian High School with extremely high academic standing, many warm fine friends, where most of the teachers were kind, intelligent, caring people working for much less than they could have gotten elsewhere. Nevertheless, when I suggested to our entire class that we take all the money we were going to waste on stupid class rings, and send it to some worthy missionary......I was ignored by everyone. I never bought a ring. I never bought a college ring. I never bought any silly mementoes of Medical School when I received my M.D. I only joined a Medical Fraternity (after they illegally promised me a job for free roomrent). The "Communist-like Cult of Personality" with most popular person elected to some meaningless title is silly. Our school finally changed the "King" & "Queen" to some less ridiculous title like Marshall and Maiden or something, but that doesn't really help. I suppose the American penchant for worship of Sports Heroes like O.J. Simpson, Darryl Strawberry, Rae Carruth (fatal shooting of mother of his child), Latrell Sprewell, Dale Carter, O. J. Simpson, Pete Rose, John Rocker, Mike Tyson, McSorley, Scott Niedermayer, Ray Lewis (obstruct justice in stabbing), will not be extinguished by this student or by me.
Hi folks,
What kind of education system do we have in this country? A student is suspended for refusing to participate in a popularity contest. Why don't those school officials concentrate on improving the education and moral values of their students rather than wasting their time on stupidities like this?
When I was in grade school (specifically in the 1st and 2nd grades) I was unusually creative for a kid my age. I had quite an imagination and I enjoyed thinking about the possibilities of the future. (The kind of stuff that makes Disney hire their Imagineers.) I also caught on to the lessons pretty quickly, so when something was explained by the teacher, I caught it the first time. Since teachers explain everything over and over several times, I generally got bored in class and as a result, so I used to draw pictures and daydream.
In those days (1984 or so), they didn't blame my behavior on A.D.D., or Attention Deficit Disorder; at least they didn't at my school. Instead, the school psychologist wrote a complicated report several pages in length, that stated, among other things, that I didn't pay attention in class (though somehow, mysteriously, I had high test scores), I exhibited unusual behavior, "magical thinking," etc. In other words, since I was somewhat more intelligent than the other kids, they considered me unusual and strange.
Actually, let me take back what I said about being more intelligent. I don't even believe that I was so much smarter than anybody else in my class. I do believe, however, that the other kids didn't realise that the same things were being explained over and over until it was etched in our brains. So they continued to pay attention, while I learned quickly and moved on to more interesting things.
Back to the school psychologist... I was also quite active during recess. I liked to be physically active and to play sports. What kid doesn't? The school psychologist used this in her reports, saying that not only did I do poorly in class (which was untrue), but that I was hyperactive. I remember being forced to take some pills to calm me down, several times each day, when I was in 1st and 2nd grades. I now believe those pills hindered my education. It's the kind of stuff George Orwell could use in his 1984.
I think students are considered learning units by the education system. When a student doesn't conform to their specifications of a child at their age, that student is punished. Those who are somewhat behind the other students are placed in special education classes where they are treated as though they are mentally retarded. (I know several perfectly intelligent people who were placed in special-ed and didn't learn anything as a result.) Those students, like me, who caught on quickly get to take pills.
Sure, I know that this doesn't happen to everybody... the fact is, however, that it happens to enough children these days that if this doesn't change and change now, this country will be in big trouble in the not-too-distant future. What happened to me as a child is not much different than this matter of being suspended for refusing to be homecoming king. School is unconstitutional and is run is such a way that students are made to think inside a box. They make you believe that you have to be normal like everybody else. If you're not, you're punished.
Kind regards,
Nathaniel G H
The point isn't that he whimped out...
The point IS that the school suspended him for putting down his crown. That means that refusing to participate in a stupid and unimportant popularity contest caused him to miss some days of school. Not only that, but it is in his record.
Now come on folks! Where does "putting down your homecoming crown" fit next to "possession of drugs," "possession of dangerous weapons," and other real suspension offenses?
-NGH
Not that it has to do with human values or anything, but a kid at a local school here got suspended for wearing a Jesus costume on Halloween day. When he was suspended he asked the administration, "Why didn't the person with the Devil costume or the Adolf Hitler costume get in trouble?"
The Webmaster over at the school was more than willing to hand over the administration's e-mail addresses... Below is the Principal and the Super Intendant. Tell them how you feel.
Jerry Davis-> jdaivs@mail.manhattah.k12.ca.us
Lynn McCormack -> lmccormack@mail.manhattan.k12.ca.us
FINALLY! Someone who will tell the truth! Two thumbs up man!
========================
63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs,
ya get 1 whacked with a service pack,
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
You're confusing AC with JK. AC said something JK didn't like, and JK threatened to sue the pants off JK. It's JK who wants to restrict AC's speech.
Bzzt, thanks for playing. Restriction of speech is not the same as holding someone accountable for speech. We, as a society, have decided that libel is against the civil law. Jon felt that he'd been libeled, and was mentioning his legal, entirely justifiable recourse, namely the court system.
Learn to differentiate censorship and accountability, please. Until then, you're making yourself look like an ass.
It's real simple. JK said he isn't "into the law" and in the same breath threatened to sue.
Learn to read, too. Until then, you're making yourself look like an ass by asserting Jon said things he never did. He specifically said he wasn't going to, although he was tempted to.
I'm just finishing school at an all boy's institution in perth, western australia, my first TEE exam is tommorow. Anyway its interesting to note the differences in australian and american teen culture in the context of highschools. at my school i am in the 'geek' bunch, or at least partly, i dont play mainstream sport (here that would be cricket and Aussie rules football, footy) but we dont have a strong jock faction at the school, we dont have such evident divisions between different groups, and as a result the persecution of the 'dud' groups isnt that severe. when i read your comments it seems as though whatever divisions and differences we have here are magnified 100X in american schools... i guess resulting in these sorts of situations. im not sure what the point of what im saying IS, im just interested in what people think about US teen culture and the differences between that and other teen cultures from various places- particularly australia.
"Before you critisize someone walk a mile in their shoes, that way when you do critisize them you'll be a mile away and
*I* did you say *I* needed to get out more???
*cough* http://wh3rd.ath.cx/nf/dream.php3 *cough*
I rave, what do you do?
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
What society are you living in? MY society believes in "liberty and justice for all". ....
Public school students are treated more and more like prison inmates every day.
Wake up buddy. The interests of the rich are served, and sometimes the majority. What if your neither? Free indeed. Do you really think that anyone that will make it into office cares more about you, your daughter or the guy that sleeps on a park bench more than the guy who donated 11 million to his campaign? "Free Society" is nothing but a load of bull. We live in a prison. Is there any reason why a school should do anything other than "train" childern to accept the way things are and brain wash them into thinking they are truely free? We live in a prision not made of brick and bars, but of being given anough walk of the grouds that we are content to lie to our selves and think that we are free to live our lives HOW EVER we want. Maybe you can, maybe your one of the ones content with having others decide what is acceptable for you. Anyway I doubt there will ever be a truely free life for anyone in my life time.
This episode in high school politics should serve to educate all of us about the value of the 'zero-tolerance' attitude that is now common in our public education system.
I live in Colorado, and have to listen all the time to ignorant well-meaning suburbanites who are convinced that if we only had a few more gun control laws on the books, that Klebold and Harris would not have committed their now-famous atrocity at Columbine high school.
You can imagine how many media stories came out in the weeks after the event about how we are all 'struggling to make sense' of the tragedy. Since both of the Wannabe-Nazis killed themselves, the inevitable search-for-the-guilty round of stories cranked up, and some media outlets (including /.) suggested that the school social environment might share the blame. School administration was quick to deny, and still does to this day, that an oppressive jock culture exists at that school.
Folks, that is a big, fat, freaking lie. An example of the rampant administration worship of jocks is the story which broke a few months later about the girl who was being harassed by a prominent member of the football team. School officials denied that there was a problem with their testosterone-laden champion of athleticism, even though he was caught stalking this girl several times. She complained to administrators, the police, the jock's parents, and finally to the media. What was the response of the school principal to this problem? He suggested she move to a different school. Really.
But perhaps the most damning evidence that the social environment at Columbine is frighteningly oppresive is the act committed by Harris and Klebold. Did they target their parents? No. Local police? No. Grocery store, church, rival gang clubhouse? Nope - they really hated that school. Theirs was a hatred strong enough to plot for a year about how to blow it up. They were racists, but specifically said they wanted to target jocks.
And now, as a result of their horrific act, schools administrations all across the country have over-reacted and implemented zero-tolerance policies against trenchcoats and activities like playing cops and robbers, with fingers shaped like guns.
Patrick didn't shoot any classmates. He didn't secretly tinker with explosives in his basement for months, and unleash them upon a vicious education system. He made a political statement about the outragious advocacy of elitism and how that continuing policy isn't necessarily promoting social welfare at his school.
If that young adult were in my town, I'd offer him a job. In any case, I want to get his autograph.
Nah...there isn't a high school out there that doesn't also give suspensions for ludicrous things like parking on the grass one-too-many times or wearing pants too low after being told to wear a belt. Stupid punishments occur all the time and this one is really not all that different. The kid just set himself up to lay down a great prank, then wimped out. He would have been suspended in some fashion if he HAD given the speech...he should have had the backbone to follow up his promise to his buddies.
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Let me give you the lowdown
Could someone please explain this to us non-US?
Censorship on Slashdot
Uh oh, two independent thought alarms in one day. The children are overstimulated. Willie, remove all the colored chalk from the classrooms.
I don't want to fit in at all because no matter what group you fit into people will assume that everything about you is defined by the group-think and you will no longer be percieved as a individual. I saw it over and over again growing up and still see it every day. It's depressing as hell, and I want no part of it.
BTW, having friends doesn't mean you fit in. I'm lucky, I've always managed to find three or four other people that don't 'fit-in' at all and we talk about how ridiculous the entire game is.
Bite my yammer.
...but one of the most fun things in my school was all the nerds who became the drama department. Spring semester, they decided to do M*A*S*H*, which of course was on any/every nerd's watch list in my area. So they all wanted to do the play.
The play got cancelled that spring (not enough students), and was then done the following fall. All the nerds came back to audition. And were there for every play thereafter.
So these categories are quite flexible...but that doesn't diminish those whose schools/environments don't have even that amount of flexibility.
whats wrong with that? continue this conversation, IM me at CiXeL78
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
Where i'm from, fighting in high school is automatic 5 day suspension...and since my high school was like 20 minutes from where this kid's school is, i'm sure their policies are similar... 2 day suspension sounds about right.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
speaking of homosexuality, homosexuality
is partly due to having little or no relationship with your father
and having a mother who smothers you so much that you cannot stand it.
Have your ever read The Glass Menagerie by Tennesee Williams? In his life he felt like the girl.
You are always reaching out for something missing from
your personality/environment/upbringing/whatever you want to call it,
and you strive to come to terms with masculinity by
being attracted to it.
Last Post, yeah. .. bored
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Moderators: I've got tons of accounts, do your worst.