I haven't thought at all about other forms of art but the determining factor as to whether or not some series of minuscule changes in atmospheric pressure constitute music is intent.
If I record a conversation or the sounds of a busy street and present them as documentation, then they are documentation.
If I take that same recording and present it at a concert as a piece of music, then it is a piece of music.
See all the acousmatic stuff that was big in the 60s.
Since this is Slashdot, I guess the "base case" would be John Cage's 4'33". You could argue Cage was presenting nothing at all as music or that he's presenting the otherwise unobserved (i.e. all the little happenings in the concert hall during this piece are in fact the point).
Or, as you argue, it could be said that if you perceive something to be art, it is art.
So, basically, anything CAN be art.
I think resistance easily arises against these notions because there is often the association that art is something worthwhile and people don't always make the distinction between the questions of whether or not something is art and whether or not some art is worthwhile.
You clearly have never recorded, mixed and mastered a 100+ piece symphony orchestra.
16 channels of 24/96 is not going to cut it for professionals.
Solid State Logic makes a PCIe card that does 128-channels at 24/96 and you can use up to 6 of them together which yields 768 channels. Other units offer 192KHz resolution.
If this is my life's work, I am going to settle for nothing less than the best. Until some serious changes happen, Linux and BSD are just not options for professionals who care about the quality of their work.
This is extremely unfortunate because I would like to have all of my work available to me in open formats so that I can use any part of it at any point in the future. All the sessions I did in grad school in Logic aren't available to me unless I start using proprietary software. And while I was in school, I either had to use proprietary software or not get the work done and not graduate which really wasn't much of an option.
Do you hear a beat there?
Regardless as to whether or not some ppl might hear a beat in Metastasis, my point was that there are pieces that don't have a beat and I still think that is the case. There are too many bizarre pieces by guys like LaMonte Young and Wolfgang Schorn. I would argue that even something like Wolfgang Rihm's 8th string quartet has no beat.
In Formalized Music Xenakis details a lot of his mathematical process but a statement like, "that the listener can relate to" makes a LOT of assumptions about the listener.
I certainly wouldn't identify a beat with those hits. Everything in sound has an underlying mathematical structure. It doesn't mean that structure necessarily translates to anything higher order or is perceptible.
A number of pieces are accepted to have no beat and there is a variety of music thought to be ametrical or with long periods of ametricity. Take Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima or Xenakis' Metastasis for example. I've written a number of ametrical works. There are even works with percussion that could be argued to be ametrical such as the opening and title track to Gorgut's Obscura.
Re:Nice review, but I don't understand something.
on
Bash Cookbook
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· Score: 1
I'm pretty sure it was a reference to this:
"Chapter 11 is a chapter of the United States Bankruptcy Code, which permits reorganization under the bankruptcy laws of the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11
It took me a moment as well as none of the review had anything to do with bankruptcy and not really anything to do with restructuring.
"That's the way (in my opinion) music and a lot of other art should be made. In their free time while they also have a job either in or out the artistic/music business."
That's fine for bands but that does not work for concert (commonly referred to as "classical") composers. Almost anyone with a job can afford some instruments, mics and a PC based DAW. Few ppl can afford to hire a symphony orchestra.
That's not entirely accurate and actually the situation surrounding the beginnings of recorded music present interesting parallels.
Before recordings, music had to be performed to be heard (as is obvious and you've pointed out), but not necessarily by professional musicians as a service as seems to be the thought these days. Many people bought sheet music to perform music in their own homes not as a service but as a past time and many still do.
When recordings first came about, the sheet music publishers were terrified by it and tried to figure out how to crush the emerging recording industry.
I want a phone running OpenMoko so that I can do the following things:
1) automatically check unknown numbers against whocalled.us type telemarketer lists 2) log ALL calls - especially useful to see how many times ppl from 1) have called you if you set it up to show while ringing 3) *MY* ringtones - they don't sell Wagner, Scriabin, Schnittke or death metal on those services - not that I'd want to pay for music I already own. 4) ringback tones 5) advanced blacklisting functionality 6) the ability to have my phone turned on to use as a clock or whatever without it being on the network so no one can call me (think movie theater or orchestral concert hall here) 7) things I haven't thought of yet
Fibonacci relations abound in art and music. This is nothing new. A text that discusses this in some length with regards to the famous Hungarian composer Bela Bartok is Erno Lendvai's Bela Bartok: An Analysis of His Music. Lendvai makes a very compelling case even though Bartok never explicitly stated on record his use of such devices. It should be noted that Bartok was a pantheist so that might explain some of his desire to use patterns in nature.
Algorithmic composition has been around for quite some time but really took off with the advent of "computer music". Different motivations exist for algorithmic composition but they are interesting. Unfortunately, these motivations are often more interesting than the resultant music IMO. A good environment to quickly do algorithmic composition in is the Common Lisp/Common Music environment as a front end to Csound.
Stochastic composition was invented by Iannis Xenakis. He used probabilistic densitiesm modeled after physical phenomena such as diffusion of gases to compose some of his works. His rather difficult to digest text Formalized Music discusses his methods.
John Cage pioneered aleatoric composition in which he used chance to make compositional choices. It was largely a reaction to the fact that so-called integral serialism, a highly deterministic system of total control, yielded works that were so difficult for most people to comprehend that they essentially sounded random.
The band discussed here really isn't doing anything new. If they do it extremely well though, then more power to them but I leave that judgement up to the individual listener.
Slashdot Mirror
I haven't thought at all about other forms of art but the determining factor as to whether or not some series of minuscule changes in atmospheric pressure constitute music is intent.
If I record a conversation or the sounds of a busy street and present them as documentation, then they are documentation.
If I take that same recording and present it at a concert as a piece of music, then it is a piece of music.
See all the acousmatic stuff that was big in the 60s.
Since this is Slashdot, I guess the "base case" would be John Cage's 4'33". You could argue Cage was presenting nothing at all as music or that he's presenting the otherwise unobserved (i.e. all the little happenings in the concert hall during this piece are in fact the point).
Or, as you argue, it could be said that if you perceive something to be art, it is art.
So, basically, anything CAN be art.
I think resistance easily arises against these notions because there is often the association that art is something worthwhile and people don't always make the distinction between the questions of whether or not something is art and whether or not some art is worthwhile.
You clearly have never seen a performance of my piece You Win (Money).
I don't know anything about C# but I thought Java was: http://jnode.org/
You clearly have never recorded, mixed and mastered a 100+ piece symphony orchestra.
16 channels of 24/96 is not going to cut it for professionals.
Solid State Logic makes a PCIe card that does 128-channels at 24/96 and you can use up to 6 of them together which yields 768 channels. Other units offer 192KHz resolution.
If this is my life's work, I am going to settle for nothing less than the best. Until some serious changes happen, Linux and BSD are just not options for professionals who care about the quality of their work.
This is extremely unfortunate because I would like to have all of my work available to me in open formats so that I can use any part of it at any point in the future. All the sessions I did in grad school in Logic aren't available to me unless I start using proprietary software. And while I was in school, I either had to use proprietary software or not get the work done and not graduate which really wasn't much of an option.
Agreed. Driver support amongst studio quality interfaces is severely lacking and limits your options significantly.
it will leave you in agony for days, weeks, or months knowing you will die.
So, it's just like real life then.
Do you hear a beat there? Regardless as to whether or not some ppl might hear a beat in Metastasis, my point was that there are pieces that don't have a beat and I still think that is the case. There are too many bizarre pieces by guys like LaMonte Young and Wolfgang Schorn. I would argue that even something like Wolfgang Rihm's 8th string quartet has no beat.
In Formalized Music Xenakis details a lot of his mathematical process but a statement like, "that the listener can relate to" makes a LOT of assumptions about the listener. I certainly wouldn't identify a beat with those hits. Everything in sound has an underlying mathematical structure. It doesn't mean that structure necessarily translates to anything higher order or is perceptible.
A number of pieces are accepted to have no beat and there is a variety of music thought to be ametrical or with long periods of ametricity. Take Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima or Xenakis' Metastasis for example. I've written a number of ametrical works. There are even works with percussion that could be argued to be ametrical such as the opening and title track to Gorgut's Obscura.
I'm pretty sure it was a reference to this: "Chapter 11 is a chapter of the United States Bankruptcy Code, which permits reorganization under the bankruptcy laws of the United States." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11 It took me a moment as well as none of the review had anything to do with bankruptcy and not really anything to do with restructuring.
...but it can explain how. Shameless self promotion: look for my book Referential Structuralism when it comes out 8 years from now.
You should try Sabayon. I believe it addresses all the issues you mention.
"That's the way (in my opinion) music and a lot of other art should be made. In their free time while they also have a job either in or out the artistic/music business."
That's fine for bands but that does not work for concert (commonly referred to as "classical") composers. Almost anyone with a job can afford some instruments, mics and a PC based DAW. Few ppl can afford to hire a symphony orchestra.
That's not entirely accurate and actually the situation surrounding the beginnings of recorded music present interesting parallels.
Before recordings, music had to be performed to be heard (as is obvious and you've pointed out), but not necessarily by professional musicians as a service as seems to be the thought these days. Many people bought sheet music to perform music in their own homes not as a service but as a past time and many still do.
When recordings first came about, the sheet music publishers were terrified by it and tried to figure out how to crush the emerging recording industry.
Is this starting to sound familiar yet?
Audio.
Please read Lennart Poettering's 2007 Linux Symposium paper Cleaning up the Linux audio desktop mess.
I want a phone running OpenMoko so that I can do the following things:
1) automatically check unknown numbers against whocalled.us type telemarketer lists
2) log ALL calls - especially useful to see how many times ppl from 1) have called you if you set it up to show while ringing
3) *MY* ringtones - they don't sell Wagner, Scriabin, Schnittke or death metal on those services - not that I'd want to pay for music I already own.
4) ringback tones
5) advanced blacklisting functionality
6) the ability to have my phone turned on to use as a clock or whatever without it being on the network so no one can call me (think movie theater or orchestral concert hall here)
7) things I haven't thought of yet
Fibonacci relations abound in art and music. This is nothing new. A text that discusses this in some length with regards to the famous Hungarian composer Bela Bartok is Erno Lendvai's Bela Bartok: An Analysis of His Music. Lendvai makes a very compelling case even though Bartok never explicitly stated on record his use of such devices. It should be noted that Bartok was a pantheist so that might explain some of his desire to use patterns in nature.
Algorithmic composition has been around for quite some time but really took off with the advent of "computer music". Different motivations exist for algorithmic composition but they are interesting. Unfortunately, these motivations are often more interesting than the resultant music IMO. A good environment to quickly do algorithmic composition in is the Common Lisp/Common Music environment as a front end to Csound.
Stochastic composition was invented by Iannis Xenakis. He used probabilistic densitiesm modeled after physical phenomena such as diffusion of gases to compose some of his works. His rather difficult to digest text Formalized Music discusses his methods.
John Cage pioneered aleatoric composition in which he used chance to make compositional choices. It was largely a reaction to the fact that so-called integral serialism, a highly deterministic system of total control, yielded works that were so difficult for most people to comprehend that they essentially sounded random.
The band discussed here really isn't doing anything new. If they do it extremely well though, then more power to them but I leave that judgement up to the individual listener.