I'm looking forward to the day when my music can be indexed and crossreferenced every which way: artist, tempo, year, style, similiarity, heck I wanna know when the Beastie Boys sample The Beatles and be notified and give the option to follow up on the samples within the songs. Someday... I hope.
As much as all of you hate watermarking, stuff like this is really what's it's MADE for. The same watermark being used by SDMI right now is actually more concerned with track id and related info than copy control. Pervasive use of watermarking on the production side of things would essentially put id3 tags in all music =)
The plan is even to have a system in place such that data about the song that you JUST HEARD on the radio will be available to you near-instantly, without you having to have a decoder. It's neat stuff =)
Whether the potential to cause sound quality problems with this outweights the benefits is another discussion altogether.
yes, you are missing something. (full disclosure: i currently work for verance) The verance watermark will survive a/d and d/a conversion, as well as mp3 compression and radio/tv transmission and several other audio transformations. it's very robust.
the watermark exists throughout the song, so you can't just clip off the offending portion.
don't attack me for being a copy-control tool, i'm only working on the detection of watermarks in radio/tv broadcasts to get reliable advertising numbers and whatever else you can do with on-the-spot, near instantaneous, data association with audio.
sun makes a card like this, except for windows NT under solaris. we have a bunch of workstations with these. kind of annoying to adminster them, though. more info at http://www.sun.com/desktop/products/sunpc i/
there's also a product called phatbox that's not quite out, but looks neat. i submitted it as a story a while ago, but was rejected:( anyway, it replaces your cd changer, and has a 5 gig cart on it (laptop HD). they had a working version at the mp3 summit, so i'd assume they're coming out soon. check it out here
>An orgie requires group cooperation while >morality is completely left behind.
why is morality left behind here?
what is immoral about sex?
it appears that your only morality is that given to you by the church. you seem to have forgotten that religion is a simply a subset of spirituality. i AM a spiritual person, i am NOT a religious person. i can't easily define my spirituality, but i certainly don't take any hard rules from my spirituality, so that inability isn't causing any harm.
>Destruction of individuality is the logical end to perfect ideological atheism.
back this up. i'm curious to see how you reach that conclusion. one can respect the individual as an end rather than a means without "god says so" being the reason.
i still have trouble respecting the morality of those that get it from the church - any church. my morals come from my respect for life. i don't "sin" because i feel that all sins involve not repspecting another life, not because i'm gonna get my ass kicked by hank otherwise.
We need a slashdot pda, one that has only 4 functions: 1. read slashdot.org 2. check stock quotes 3. telnet 4. mp3 player It seems like transmitting clear text passwords over wireless is a really really pad idea, at least if wireless transmission is anything like ethernet. As I understand it, being within a certain range of someone using wireless enet would be kind of like being in the same subnet; i.e. you could sniff all the traffic, just by sitting next to someone. As someone that feels vaguely paranoid just using a wireless phone, i would DEFINITLY want something that could encrypt my traffic.
it didn't used to support multiple sound cards, as far as i remember. or maybe i just didn't HAVE two soundcards and wasn't interested enough to buy another;)
it is a neat program. just didn't seem to compare to a pair of technics when i looked at it before. i still think the interface can't compare to being able to move a record any way you want, though. i'm not talking about scratching here, just effective beatmatching and.. all that other hard to verbalize stuff that djs do.
then again.. i don't mean this snottily at all, but "mobile djs" just don't do that much with the music. it's not the same as being a "rave dj", which is the perspective i'm coming from. maybe vtt's interface is just dandy for mobile peeps.
i'm curious as to what kind of equipment (hardware and software) they're using.
there are pro sound cards i would trust to do the audio out, but i've never seen anything but 1/8" and POS d/ac's on laptops. the d/ac doesn't matter THAT much for live playback, but i don't trust those 1/8" cables in a mobile situation at all.
i've done it before with some success, but not at the level they're talking about. and every 1/8"->RCA cable i've ever used has flaked. i do suppose a pro 1/4" stereo to RCA or just a 1/4" stereo to dual 1/4" mono would work and be convertable... but something still strikes me wrong about it
oh yeah: yes, pro vs consumer cables REALLY matter for this stuff. not for audio quality, but for durability. even heavy duty 1/4" cables short sometimes when you move them around that much, and have dancing people around.
i'm also curious as to what software he's using. the only dj software i've seen for windows in virtual turntables.. which has been kinda iffy with me... a big problem is that you can't cue (listen to one song while playing another) unless you do a setup where the right channel out gets the cue and the left channel out gets the signal, which just isn't acceptable to me. anyone found anything better?
you can do virtually anything you want with timbre according to so many different controllers. timbre almost always changed with velocity (how hard you hit the key). or it can just change volumes. or do something else. all depends on the instrument. K2500s are VERy versatile.. and they're old. i don't even know what newer stuff can do. it's also fairly trivial to vary attack times.
i'm not totally disagreeing with you. i don't think synth instruments really compare to real instruments yet, either. but those aren't the reasons
i'm not really sure what the reasons are... mostly cause i'd take a 303 over a trombone any day;)
'course, i'm all prissy about it. while i do like tekno, mostly i prefer some form of trance.
for hard core, one with the computer, nerdvana type coding, good hard psy-trance or goa is PERFECT. for those who havn't heard it, try astral projection, growling mad scientists, x-dream, hallucinogen, noosphere.. an the list goes on and on.
harder trance is wonderful, too.
'course, i tend to just listen to what i want to hear. which usually is one of the above, but it doesn't keep me from throwing in a melodic trance mix and getting distracted by ecsatic builds every once in while;) or just listening to something completely different, and forgetting about electronic music for a little while
i feel obligated to insert "Talking about music is like dancing about architechture" here, cause i don't feel like i can even begin to express my thoughts about most of that music. It's another state of mind. . .
are you trying to tell me that DATs are compressed? i'm (virtually) positive they're not. minidiscs are. i can't imagine nearly every studio in the world would use a compressed format. i could be wrong, but i'm virtually sure they're raw. phase problems are another matter entirely. . .
that's probably because you're buying consumer products. the aim is not to be super-reliable. buy pro products for that. i want to put in a plug for sony's professional stuff, something along the lines of "it's quite nice", but i don't think i've ever used any. what professional equipment do they make? apparently not pro-audio, or at least not much of it. i imagine they have high quality pro video products. if you want to do something right, and never worry about it breaking, buy pro products. they're more expenive, and lack some cushy features (remote controls), but they're amazing. i'll never go back to consumer audio.
just on an informative note, they imploded the missle silos in north dakota. we ain't go nukes no more. we don't even have real planes, just cargo planes. unless they have secret ones, which is entirely possible =)
I think being digusted intellectually is much less powerful than a "gut feeling".
It's a lot easier to rationalize around something in your head than in your gut.
The idea of killing without a reason (or any reason other than the very last ditch of direct self defense) doesn't just disgust me, it nearly incapacitates me. There's no way i could ever make myself do it.
I get gut feelings about everything. Maybe I'm abnormal even for a geek, but those feeling are usually right. I've learned to trust them. I think it is an understanding of what's going on, just on a deeper level. I may not be consciously aware of why I know something is wrong, but there's definitly a reason.
I think this article is completely backwards. It says that "geeks" _lack_ empathy for other people. . . I think its just the opposite.
It seems more like geeks have LOTS of empathy, but this society is really geared towards being ANTI empathy, especially during developmental times (high school and such). We are NOT supposed to really care about things. Look at the word "cool", it basically means you don't care. Yes, there is an aspect of that about not caring about people breaking rules, but do stereotypically "cool" people show compassion? That's not my understanding.
As anyone who knows much about it would've guessed from my nick, i'm actively involved in "rave" culture. A brief non-fox-new definition of rave is just that they're music based (we go to dance, or just enjoy the bass, not to get drunk and hook up) parties with truly friendly people. (this is, of course, the ideal, but I'm just going to dismiss the popular commercialized aspects right now). From my nick, PLUR stands for Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect (lots of people, including me, like to add a second R for responsibility), and is a sterotypical raver ideal.
You're probably wondering where I'm going with this. What spurred this was the fact that I've noticed MANY MANY technical people in the scene, especially compared to any other parties or concerts I've ever been to. There was at least one linux shirt at the last party i went to. It's a place where you are not just allowed, but encouraged to care about other people.
A brief summary of this still half formed idea: Raves support being openly empathic, lots of geeks like raves (once they get past the idea that all parties are for the people that tormented them in high school) Therefore, geeks tend to be more empathic rather than less.
[Discalimer] This idea just came into my head, and it's full of generalizations, idealizations, and (most likely) logic holes. Nothing I said (in fact, nothing anyone says) applies to all geeks, or all ravers. But I think it's an interesting idea.
all of the best new "electronic music" ([side rant] why is there not a better term for this? cause it ain't techno (i'm talkin about trance and jungle, too), and electronica is the dumbest word that ever came out of rolling stone magazine[/side rant]) is on vinyl.
all the raver kids (and adults:P) agree: vinyl is yummy. That doesn't keep me from owning several hundred CDs and gig upon gig of mp3, but vinyl is certainly not dead.
dude, get a hold of yourself. first of all, it's "rammstein". second, that's not "goth" music. there are kids that go around listening to marilyn manson and rammstein and whatever other bands like that there are; those are the manson kiddies. the "goths" are more likely to listen to the cure or the swans, or other more underground bands that i don't know about (i'm a raver, not a goth:P). and they tend to be some of the most open minded, accepting people i've met. ridiculed "with good cause"?? get your head out of your ass! respect everyone for what they are; i really can't stand most of what the "jock culture" stands for, but unless they're actually hurting anyone, they're fine doing whatever they want...
it really pains me to hear people talk like you do; the world really needs so more tolerance.
oh come on. . . you hook it into your existing stereo.
ahh! excuse me, i just comtemplating living without bass, and i think my heart stopped.
man, everyone should have good speakers. or should just live anywhere near us; we live in a dorm, and you can hear our speakers for several blocks when we crank them =) gotta love the 12" sub under the couch.
you're silly drug use != drug abuse i'm not even gonna mention what i've done. . but none of it has affected me adversly. it's all about not being an idiot, and having SOME sense when you choose what to do. you're right, potheads are bad. however, (person->smokesweed() => person==pothead) is false (man, you got me talking in code again) i'm not advocating drug use as such, just intelligence when talking about it.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm looking forward to the day when my music can be indexed and crossreferenced every which way: artist, tempo, year, style, similiarity, heck I wanna know when the Beastie Boys sample The Beatles and be notified and give the option to follow up on the samples within the songs. Someday... I hope.
As much as all of you hate watermarking, stuff like this is really what's it's MADE for. The same watermark being used by SDMI right now is actually more concerned with track id and related info than copy control. Pervasive use of watermarking on the production side of things would essentially put id3 tags in all music =)
The plan is even to have a system in place such that data about the song that you JUST HEARD on the radio will be available to you near-instantly, without you having to have a decoder. It's neat stuff =)
Whether the potential to cause sound quality problems with this outweights the benefits is another discussion altogether.
yes, you are missing something.
(full disclosure: i currently work for verance)
The verance watermark will survive a/d and d/a conversion, as well as mp3 compression and radio/tv transmission and several other audio transformations. it's very robust.
the watermark exists throughout the song, so you can't just clip off the offending portion.
don't attack me for being a copy-control tool, i'm only working on the detection of watermarks in radio/tv broadcasts to get reliable advertising numbers and whatever else you can do with on-the-spot, near instantaneous, data association with audio.
sun makes a card like this, except for windows NT under solaris. we have a bunch of workstations with these. kind of annoying to adminster them, though. more info at http://www.sun.com/desktop/products/sunpc i/
sorry, bad url. right one is:
www.phatnoise.com
there's also a product called phatbox that's not quite out, but looks neat. i submitted it as a story a while ago, but was rejected :(
anyway, it replaces your cd changer, and has a 5 gig cart on it (laptop HD).
they had a working version at the mp3 summit, so i'd assume they're coming out soon.
check it out here
>An orgie requires group cooperation while >morality is completely left behind.
why is morality left behind here?
what is immoral about sex?
it appears that your only morality is that given to you by the church. you seem to have forgotten that religion is a simply a subset of spirituality. i AM a spiritual person, i am NOT a religious person. i can't easily define my spirituality, but i certainly don't take any hard rules from my spirituality, so that inability isn't causing any harm.
>Destruction of individuality is the logical end to perfect ideological atheism.
back this up. i'm curious to see how you reach that conclusion. one can respect the individual as an end rather than a means without "god says so" being the reason.
i still have trouble respecting the morality of those that get it from the church - any church. my morals come from my respect for life. i don't "sin" because i feel that all sins involve not repspecting another life, not because i'm gonna get my ass kicked by hank otherwise.
We need a slashdot pda, one that has only 4 functions: 1. read slashdot.org 2. check stock quotes 3. telnet 4. mp3 player It seems like transmitting clear text passwords over wireless is a really really pad idea, at least if wireless transmission is anything like ethernet. As I understand it, being within a certain range of someone using wireless enet would be kind of like being in the same subnet; i.e. you could sniff all the traffic, just by sitting next to someone. As someone that feels vaguely paranoid just using a wireless phone, i would DEFINITLY want something that could encrypt my traffic.
i stand corrected.
it didn't used to support multiple sound cards, as far as i remember. or maybe i just didn't HAVE two soundcards and wasn't interested enough to buy another ;)
for anyone that wants to check it out, go here: virtual turntables
it is a neat program. just didn't seem to compare to a pair of technics when i looked at it before. i still think the interface can't compare to being able to move a record any way you want, though. i'm not talking about scratching here, just effective beatmatching and.. all that other hard to verbalize stuff that djs do.
then again.. i don't mean this snottily at all, but "mobile djs" just don't do that much with the music. it's not the same as being a "rave dj", which is the perspective i'm coming from. maybe vtt's interface is just dandy for mobile peeps.
i'm curious as to what kind of equipment (hardware and software) they're using.
there are pro sound cards i would trust to do the audio out, but i've never seen anything but 1/8" and POS d/ac's on laptops. the d/ac doesn't matter THAT much for live playback, but i don't trust those 1/8" cables in a mobile situation at all.
i've done it before with some success, but not at the level they're talking about. and every 1/8"->RCA cable i've ever used has flaked. i do suppose a pro 1/4" stereo to RCA or just a 1/4" stereo to dual 1/4" mono would work and be convertable... but something still strikes me wrong about it
oh yeah: yes, pro vs consumer cables REALLY matter for this stuff. not for audio quality, but for durability. even heavy duty 1/4" cables short sometimes when you move them around that much, and have dancing people around.
i'm also curious as to what software he's using. the only dj software i've seen for windows in virtual turntables.. which has been kinda iffy with me... a big problem is that you can't cue (listen to one song while playing another) unless you do a setup where the right channel out gets the cue and the left channel out gets the signal, which just isn't acceptable to me. anyone found anything better?
ps. i'm sticking with my 1200s ;)
obviously you don't know TOO much about midi ;)
you can do virtually anything you want with timbre according to so many different controllers. timbre almost always changed with velocity (how hard you hit the key). or it can just change volumes. or do something else. all depends on the instrument. K2500s are VERy versatile.. and they're old. i don't even know what newer stuff can do. it's also fairly trivial to vary attack times.
i'm not totally disagreeing with you. i don't think synth instruments really compare to real instruments yet, either. but those aren't the reasons
i'm not really sure what the reasons are. .. mostly cause i'd take a 303 over a trombone any day ;)
'course, i'm all prissy about it. while i do like tekno, mostly i prefer some form of trance.
for hard core, one with the computer, nerdvana type coding, good hard psy-trance or goa is PERFECT. for those who havn't heard it, try astral projection, growling mad scientists, x-dream, hallucinogen, noosphere.. an the list goes on and on.
harder trance is wonderful, too.
'course, i tend to just listen to what i want to hear. which usually is one of the above, but it doesn't keep me from throwing in a melodic trance mix and getting distracted by ecsatic builds every once in while ;) or just listening to something completely different, and forgetting about electronic music for a little while
i feel obligated to insert "Talking about music is like dancing about architechture" here, cause i don't feel like i can even begin to express my thoughts about most of that music. It's another state of mind. . .
are you trying to tell me that DATs are compressed?
i'm (virtually) positive they're not. minidiscs are. i can't imagine nearly every studio in the world would use a compressed format.
i could be wrong, but i'm virtually sure they're raw.
phase problems are another matter entirely. . .
that's probably because you're buying consumer products. the aim is not to be super-reliable. buy pro products for that.
i want to put in a plug for sony's professional stuff, something along the lines of "it's quite nice", but i don't think i've ever used any.
what professional equipment do they make? apparently not pro-audio, or at least not much of it. i imagine they have high quality pro video products.
if you want to do something right, and never worry about it breaking, buy pro products. they're more expenive, and lack some cushy features (remote controls), but they're amazing. i'll never go back to consumer audio.
just on an informative note, they imploded the missle silos in north dakota. we ain't go nukes no more. we don't even have real planes, just cargo planes. unless they have secret ones, which is entirely possible =)
I think being digusted intellectually is much less powerful than a "gut feeling".
It's a lot easier to rationalize around something in your head than in your gut.
The idea of killing without a reason (or any reason other than the very last ditch of direct self defense) doesn't just disgust me, it nearly incapacitates me. There's no way i could ever make myself do it.
I get gut feelings about everything. Maybe I'm abnormal even for a geek, but those feeling are usually right. I've learned to trust them. I think it is an understanding of what's going on, just on a deeper level. I may not be consciously aware of why I know something is wrong, but there's definitly a reason.
I think this article is completely backwards. It says that "geeks" _lack_ empathy for other people. . . I think its just the opposite.
It seems more like geeks have LOTS of empathy, but this society is really geared towards being ANTI empathy, especially during developmental times (high school and such). We are NOT supposed to really care about things. Look at the word "cool", it basically means you don't care. Yes, there is an aspect of that about not caring about people breaking rules, but do stereotypically "cool" people show compassion? That's not my understanding.
As anyone who knows much about it would've guessed from my nick, i'm actively involved in "rave" culture. A brief non-fox-new definition of rave is just that they're music based (we go to dance, or just enjoy the bass, not to get drunk and hook up) parties with truly friendly people. (this is, of course, the ideal, but I'm just going to dismiss the popular commercialized aspects right now). From my nick, PLUR stands for Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect (lots of people, including me, like to add a second R for responsibility), and is a sterotypical raver ideal.
You're probably wondering where I'm going with this. What spurred this was the fact that I've noticed MANY MANY technical people in the scene, especially compared to any other parties or concerts I've ever been to. There was at least one linux shirt at the last party i went to. It's a place where you are not just allowed, but encouraged to care about other people.
A brief summary of this still half formed idea: Raves support being openly empathic, lots of geeks like raves (once they get past the idea that all parties are for the people that tormented them in high school) Therefore, geeks tend to be more empathic rather than less.
[Discalimer] This idea just came into my head, and it's full of generalizations, idealizations, and (most likely) logic holes. Nothing I said (in fact, nothing anyone says) applies to all geeks, or all ravers. But I think it's an interesting idea.
erik@NcsO.ShmcP.AeduM
records have died out my ass. . .
:P) agree: vinyl is yummy. That doesn't keep me from owning several hundred CDs and gig upon gig of mp3, but vinyl is certainly not dead.
:)
any dj worth his anything uses vinyl...
all of the best new "electronic music" ([side rant] why is there not a better term for this? cause it ain't techno (i'm talkin about trance and jungle, too), and electronica is the dumbest word that ever came out of rolling stone magazine[/side rant]) is on vinyl.
all the raver kids (and adults
and you still can't scratch a cd
erik
dude, get a hold of yourself. first of all, it's "rammstein". second, that's not "goth" music. there are kids that go around listening to marilyn manson and rammstein and whatever other bands like that there are; those are the manson kiddies. the "goths" are more likely to listen to the cure or the swans, or other more underground bands that i don't know about (i'm a raver, not a goth :P). and they tend to be some of the most open minded, accepting people i've met. ridiculed "with good cause"?? get your head out of your ass! respect everyone for what they are; i really can't stand most of what the "jock culture" stands for, but unless they're actually hurting anyone, they're fine doing whatever they want...
it really pains me to hear people talk like you do; the world really needs so more tolerance.
erik
oh come on. . . you hook it into your existing stereo.
ahh!
excuse me, i just comtemplating living without bass, and i think my heart stopped.
man, everyone should have good speakers.
or should just live anywhere near us; we live in a dorm, and you can hear our speakers for several blocks when we crank them =)
gotta love the 12" sub under the couch.
you're silly
drug use != drug abuse
i'm not even gonna mention what i've done. . but none of it has affected me adversly.
it's all about not being an idiot, and having SOME sense when you choose what to do.
you're right, potheads are bad. however, (person->smokesweed() => person==pothead) is false (man, you got me talking in code again)
i'm not advocating drug use as such, just intelligence when talking about it.