So run a test. The UK is a very secular society these days - although I couldn't promise it's majority atheist. So set up a test, using packages branded in three ways: - Jesus Wuvs Your Scarf - Atheist Scarves - Winter Scarf Co
Send a hundred of each via Royal Mail and see which ones get delivered.
My bet is: No difference.
Now, repeat that experiment with USPS. Let us know your results.
1. Bankruptcy is basically 8 years without credit. If you're a poor person that's a nightmare. No house and no car, both of which you need.
You can acquire a car without credit. It may be a pretty shit car, but if you can't afford to buy one then you can't afford to run it anyway.
there are hundreds of bankruptcy firms that just take your money and then take the first offer by the court. They pray on people trying to keep their heads above water by working 80 hours a week
If you become bankrupt that's no excuse for being stupid, failing to research your options, adopting the best approach and negotiating the best possible terms.
People can become bankrupt for many reasons. It doesn't stop them living a good life, and it sure as shit doesn't excuse them making bad decisions afterwards.
Forgive my utter lack of sympathy but they should take some responsibility.
But writing the software to detect aircraft, calculate velocity, plot a trajectory for a bullet, shoot and track variance in trajectory to adjust the second shot to include new information on wind effects? Now it's getting fun.
Damnit, now I want one. I've been avoiding high power consumer lenses because I don't have a decent use for one; clearly I've been thinking too low power.
If I blind a US satellite from England do I still go to Gitmo?
It's not a weapon. It may not be a toy, but it can be played with. Similarly it can be used as a weapon - but it's a toy at least as much as a weapon.
Just because you don't want to play with lasers doesn't mean they aren't toys. If you switch out the word play for 'experiment' or 'learn' then you've bumped into a use that a lot of people want them for.
Lasers rock. Playing with them is fun. Owning them does not mean using them as weapons. Shit, I own machetes and haven't hacked anybody's arm off, you'll be telling me those are weapons too I guess?
Well, suggesting that 'fork his repo' is sexual is a subjective opinion that she shared to justify publicly embarrassing him. That's defamation, claiming it's sexual harrassment is hard to defend, and the truth isn't necessarily a defense in a libel case here.
Well, I'd agree with you on the arse grabbing - never appropriate except maybe with a partner, and I'd rather show affection in other ways.
Regarding the door opening, your response is what I'd expect. This is why the strong reaction frankly scared me - one report to HR and justified or not, I'm the one getting their career limited.
That doesn't excuse men crossing your boundaries. It's often hard to know where those boundaries are, and avoid crossing them without completely isolating yourself from interaction. Which is the response I've found myself adopting. As a man, I can't win.
As an example: How often to women initiate a relationship, using explicit words and physical cues? Because without those, I just can't tell if she's merely being friendly, and - in the office or not - I just don't dare respond in anything more than a 'casual friend' manner. But if I try and initiate anything, I'm suddenly predatory and imposing unwanted attention..
You asked how hard it was to keep it clean around women. You didn't ask how hard it was to keep it clean around men.
Why your specific mention of women if you're not ascribing different behaviours/standards based on gender?
I'm sensitive because you're the latest in a long line of people that seem to think that I shouldn't act normally because one person near me is different to another person near me.
My point is that I can't fucking win with people like you. Either I'm fucked or I'm fucked.
Homeopathy treatments have been tested repeatedly against placebo and there is no difference in response. Not surprisingly since they're just sugar pills and water.
Usually just water, but yes, that's my point. They're tested against the Placebo effect _because_ it demonstrates that they do fuck-all that wouldn't be possible with a placebo.
Nonsense. The only effect of a placebo is in someone's imagination.
It is not clinically real - it is not physiological.
I'm not sure how you define "clinically real" but the placebo effect has been demonstrated to change brain patterns, lead to (e.g.) hormone generation and change perception of pain.
I'd call those clinical outcomes, and physiological changes.
for something like a bacterial infection this is potentially fatal.
Absolutely. But placebos aren't being prescribed for bacterial infections, lethal viruses, cancer, broken limbs and heart attacks.
Actually, they probably are part of some cancer treatments. But only as part of it.
Using a known effect to achieve genuine outcomes is an excellent use of resources, and allows prioritisation of more costly treatments for patients that actually need them.
The placebo effect has been objectively measured as being able to heal a patient.
It can and does happen.
Go check the research. It's very real. This is why for instance homeopathy treatments are assessed against whether they heal the patient, they're assessed against whether they heal the patient MORE than a placebo.
This will be true until we reach a technology level where gender reassignment can be reversibly done at will (e.g. as per the 'Culture' in Iain M Banks novels).
Until then I'm afraid I'm going to continue to be sexist: No, I wont sleep with you, you're male.
The irony being that I've been told off for staring at women in the office before.. because when I think hard about stuff my eyes stop moving and I disconnect standard senses to free up my brain. It just happens that I'm sometimes staring in the general direction of someone, especially if they're sat opposite me.
Staring at people isn't always sexual.
f you'd been a woman, the woman would still have mentioned it to her boss
Actually, he was suggesting in the rest of his post that (stereotypically) if he was a woman he wouldn't have had to stare, because he'd have been able to gauge her mood and her likely response, and been able to approach her.
He wasn't blaming her, he was expressing deep regret that current office politics mean that as a sensitive socially awkward man, he just can't win.
These guys got into CS because they thought they could make money, not because of any aptitude or interest in the subject.)
So basically they were twats. That doesn't mean that geeks, programmers or men are inherently sexist, it means that you worked with people that were utter cocks.
some of the crap I've run into personally, that did bug me (yo, no one grabs my tits without invitation*)
I appreciate that sexual harrassment is rarely as overt and obvious as that, and that it's a real problem. I just have social interaction issues and I end up not daring to talk to anybody because I can't assess boundaries, and don't dare risk causing offence because people like Adria will get me sacked for genuinely innocent behaviour and comments.
Hearing lots of women complain about sexual harrassment when I've only ever seen it from one man in the workplace just confuses the hell out of me.
That man has..walking downstairs, asked a female colleague coming upstairs for a blowjob. Response: "Later" with a wink...got into a lift and pinched a woman's bottom, then said, "Oh, sorry, thought you were someone else". Response: Giggle and "You just made my week"..when asked, "Why are you staring at me", responded: "I'm trying work out how to get into your knickers". Response: Big smile (and confirmed by colleagues that they left a pub together late one night a few days later).
Alternatively, I've been accused of sexual discrimination in the workplace because I.. held a door open for a female colleague. Apparently my polite inclination to hold open a door for anybody that happens to be walking through it behind me isn't relevant.
How the hell am I meant to know what's acceptable? It's a fucking nightmare being a man in a modern office.
While I think it's atrocious that men don't get the same anonymity as their accusers when charged with rape, there is a tremendous difficulty for rape victims (male or female) in dealing with the police, the courts and their local societies.
In the UK it's better than most, and rape conviction rates are still exceedingly low. While I (cynically) believe that many rape complaints are misfounded and/or malicious, I also believe that the majority are not; the low conviction rate is not a good thing.
They were the type of guys who would make quite explicit comments about other female coworkers, clients or vendors in front of me and made me wonder what they said about me behind my back.
I've had male co-workers express utter lust for workers on a nearby building site before now. Something about the rough, slightly dirty, strong men working there that attracted them I guess. That's not sexism, even if it offensive. I didn't worry about what they might have said about me behind my back.
Women also discuss men in sexual terms. In the office. Do you mentor the young men in your teams on how to handle that too?
Great. Treat me as a stereotype - that's both sexist and racist.
Tell me, if you follow the org chart all the way up to your CEO, how many women are there?
I'm not a CEO. I'll never be a CEO. That puts me behind thousands of women, who will. That puts me behind thousands of people that aren't "white", who will. Why are you harassing me for failing to have as much power as them?
Tell me, in your HR department, what's the ratio of men to women? Is your C-level HR person male or female? I'm asking only because I've never worked for a company with a male C-level HR person, or a company with more than a third of the HR team being male.
Why is this? Why don't men get an equal chance? Oh - they do. It's just that a lot of them choose to work elsewhere. Similarly a lot of women don't want to be refuse collectors, or sacrifice work/life balance and become a CEO.
Stop pretending that white men get it all easy. It's not true.
My last two bosses have both been 'touchy feely' - almost giving you a cuddle when they come up behind you and want to ask you to do something.
It doesn't matter whether the 'you' is male, female, young, old or a small dog. I've also seen nobody take offence at it.
Shit, they both call their male staff 'honey' and 'darling' - especially when you've just bought them a cup of tea. It's a surprise the first 2-3 times, then you shrug and get on with life. (They're both married with kids, although that tends not to mean much).
I'd be bemused if someone claimed sexual harrassment over it. It's just part of their normal engagement. Some people actually prefer that level of interaction, rather than a cold distant management style. Sometimes you can't win:(
Slashdot Mirror
So run a test. The UK is a very secular society these days - although I couldn't promise it's majority atheist. So set up a test, using packages branded in three ways:
- Jesus Wuvs Your Scarf
- Atheist Scarves
- Winter Scarf Co
Send a hundred of each via Royal Mail and see which ones get delivered.
My bet is: No difference.
Now, repeat that experiment with USPS. Let us know your results.
Since you'd pay tax on your share of the estate, if your share is $0 your tax burden is.. quite low.
The IRS can go fuck themselves.
1. Bankruptcy is basically 8 years without credit. If you're a poor person that's a nightmare. No house and no car, both of which you need.
You can acquire a car without credit. It may be a pretty shit car, but if you can't afford to buy one then you can't afford to run it anyway.
there are hundreds of bankruptcy firms that just take your money and then take the first offer by the court. They pray on people trying to keep their heads above water by working 80 hours a week
If you become bankrupt that's no excuse for being stupid, failing to research your options, adopting the best approach and negotiating the best possible terms.
People can become bankrupt for many reasons. It doesn't stop them living a good life, and it sure as shit doesn't excuse them making bad decisions afterwards.
Forgive my utter lack of sympathy but they should take some responsibility.
But writing the software to detect aircraft, calculate velocity, plot a trajectory for a bullet, shoot and track variance in trajectory to adjust the second shot to include new information on wind effects? Now it's getting fun.
Damnit, now I want one. I've been avoiding high power consumer lenses because I don't have a decent use for one; clearly I've been thinking too low power.
If I blind a US satellite from England do I still go to Gitmo?
It's not a weapon. It may not be a toy, but it can be played with. Similarly it can be used as a weapon - but it's a toy at least as much as a weapon.
Just because you don't want to play with lasers doesn't mean they aren't toys. If you switch out the word play for 'experiment' or 'learn' then you've bumped into a use that a lot of people want them for.
Lasers rock. Playing with them is fun. Owning them does not mean using them as weapons. Shit, I own machetes and haven't hacked anybody's arm off, you'll be telling me those are weapons too I guess?
Which part of "actionable under UK libel law" in my original post led you to believe I was talking about the US?
Fuckwit.
Well, suggesting that 'fork his repo' is sexual is a subjective opinion that she shared to justify publicly embarrassing him. That's defamation, claiming it's sexual harrassment is hard to defend, and the truth isn't necessarily a defense in a libel case here.
She defamed him. He suffered resultant losses. That makes her defamation actionable, whether the person sacking him acted appropriately or not.
(Whether the action would succeed is a more complex question to which no lawyer would give you a 'yes' or 'no' answer)
Well, I'd agree with you on the arse grabbing - never appropriate except maybe with a partner, and I'd rather show affection in other ways.
Regarding the door opening, your response is what I'd expect. This is why the strong reaction frankly scared me - one report to HR and justified or not, I'm the one getting their career limited.
That doesn't excuse men crossing your boundaries. It's often hard to know where those boundaries are, and avoid crossing them without completely isolating yourself from interaction. Which is the response I've found myself adopting. As a man, I can't win.
As an example: How often to women initiate a relationship, using explicit words and physical cues? Because without those, I just can't tell if she's merely being friendly, and - in the office or not - I just don't dare respond in anything more than a 'casual friend' manner. But if I try and initiate anything, I'm suddenly predatory and imposing unwanted attention..
It's confusing and it hurts and I hate it.
You asked how hard it was to keep it clean around women. You didn't ask how hard it was to keep it clean around men.
Why your specific mention of women if you're not ascribing different behaviours/standards based on gender?
I'm sensitive because you're the latest in a long line of people that seem to think that I shouldn't act normally because one person near me is different to another person near me.
My point is that I can't fucking win with people like you. Either I'm fucked or I'm fucked.
So fuck off.
Homeopathy treatments have been tested repeatedly against placebo and there is no difference in response. Not surprisingly since they're just sugar pills and water.
Usually just water, but yes, that's my point. They're tested against the Placebo effect _because_ it demonstrates that they do fuck-all that wouldn't be possible with a placebo.
Nonsense. The only effect of a placebo is in someone's imagination.
Hmm. No. http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Health_Letter/2012/April/putting-the-placebo-effect-to-work
It is not clinically real - it is not physiological.
I'm not sure how you define "clinically real" but the placebo effect has been demonstrated to change brain patterns, lead to (e.g.) hormone generation and change perception of pain.
I'd call those clinical outcomes, and physiological changes.
for something like a bacterial infection this is potentially fatal.
Absolutely. But placebos aren't being prescribed for bacterial infections, lethal viruses, cancer, broken limbs and heart attacks.
Actually, they probably are part of some cancer treatments. But only as part of it.
Using a known effect to achieve genuine outcomes is an excellent use of resources, and allows prioritisation of more costly treatments for patients that actually need them.
The placebo effect has been objectively measured as being able to heal a patient.
It can and does happen.
Go check the research. It's very real. This is why for instance homeopathy treatments are assessed against whether they heal the patient, they're assessed against whether they heal the patient MORE than a placebo.
Not irrational. Maybe misplaced, but trust me, very rational.
No, trust me, it was sarcastic. Possibly unintentionally, but nobody could have interpreted that as sincere.
This will be true until we reach a technology level where gender reassignment can be reversibly done at will (e.g. as per the 'Culture' in Iain M Banks novels).
Until then I'm afraid I'm going to continue to be sexist: No, I wont sleep with you, you're male.
The irony being that I've been told off for staring at women in the office before.. because when I think hard about stuff my eyes stop moving and I disconnect standard senses to free up my brain. It just happens that I'm sometimes staring in the general direction of someone, especially if they're sat opposite me.
Staring at people isn't always sexual.
f you'd been a woman, the woman would still have mentioned it to her boss
Actually, he was suggesting in the rest of his post that (stereotypically) if he was a woman he wouldn't have had to stare, because he'd have been able to gauge her mood and her likely response, and been able to approach her.
He wasn't blaming her, he was expressing deep regret that current office politics mean that as a sensitive socially awkward man, he just can't win.
I agree with him.
These guys got into CS because they thought they could make money, not because of any aptitude or interest in the subject.)
So basically they were twats. That doesn't mean that geeks, programmers or men are inherently sexist, it means that you worked with people that were utter cocks.
some of the crap I've run into personally, that did bug me (yo, no one grabs my tits without invitation*)
I appreciate that sexual harrassment is rarely as overt and obvious as that, and that it's a real problem. I just have social interaction issues and I end up not daring to talk to anybody because I can't assess boundaries, and don't dare risk causing offence because people like Adria will get me sacked for genuinely innocent behaviour and comments.
Hearing lots of women complain about sexual harrassment when I've only ever seen it from one man in the workplace just confuses the hell out of me.
That man has ..walking downstairs, asked a female colleague coming upstairs for a blowjob. Response: "Later" with a wink. ..got into a lift and pinched a woman's bottom, then said, "Oh, sorry, thought you were someone else". Response: Giggle and "You just made my week" ..when asked, "Why are you staring at me", responded: "I'm trying work out how to get into your knickers". Response: Big smile (and confirmed by colleagues that they left a pub together late one night a few days later).
Alternatively, I've been accused of sexual discrimination in the workplace because I.. held a door open for a female colleague. Apparently my polite inclination to hold open a door for anybody that happens to be walking through it behind me isn't relevant.
How the hell am I meant to know what's acceptable? It's a fucking nightmare being a man in a modern office.
Indeed. Compare and contrast to suicide rates amongst men falsely accused of sexual offences.
While I think it's atrocious that men don't get the same anonymity as their accusers when charged with rape, there is a tremendous difficulty for rape victims (male or female) in dealing with the police, the courts and their local societies.
In the UK it's better than most, and rape conviction rates are still exceedingly low. While I (cynically) believe that many rape complaints are misfounded and/or malicious, I also believe that the majority are not; the low conviction rate is not a good thing.
They were the type of guys who would make quite explicit comments about other female coworkers, clients or vendors in front of me and made me wonder what they said about me behind my back.
I've had male co-workers express utter lust for workers on a nearby building site before now. Something about the rough, slightly dirty, strong men working there that attracted them I guess. That's not sexism, even if it offensive. I didn't worry about what they might have said about me behind my back.
Women also discuss men in sexual terms. In the office. Do you mentor the young men in your teams on how to handle that too?
Sadly a little bit of research suggests that this is that final 0.01% of people that it's pretty much impossible to not offend.
as a class, we generally are
Great. Treat me as a stereotype - that's both sexist and racist.
Tell me, if you follow the org chart all the way up to your CEO, how many women are there?
I'm not a CEO. I'll never be a CEO. That puts me behind thousands of women, who will. That puts me behind thousands of people that aren't "white", who will. Why are you harassing me for failing to have as much power as them?
Tell me, in your HR department, what's the ratio of men to women? Is your C-level HR person male or female? I'm asking only because I've never worked for a company with a male C-level HR person, or a company with more than a third of the HR team being male.
Why is this? Why don't men get an equal chance? Oh - they do. It's just that a lot of them choose to work elsewhere. Similarly a lot of women don't want to be refuse collectors, or sacrifice work/life balance and become a CEO.
Stop pretending that white men get it all easy. It's not true.
My last two bosses have both been 'touchy feely' - almost giving you a cuddle when they come up behind you and want to ask you to do something.
It doesn't matter whether the 'you' is male, female, young, old or a small dog. I've also seen nobody take offence at it.
Shit, they both call their male staff 'honey' and 'darling' - especially when you've just bought them a cup of tea. It's a surprise the first 2-3 times, then you shrug and get on with life. (They're both married with kids, although that tends not to mean much).
I'd be bemused if someone claimed sexual harrassment over it. It's just part of their normal engagement. Some people actually prefer that level of interaction, rather than a cold distant management style. Sometimes you can't win :(