I actually haven't had the same experience. Almost all of the bugs I've run into were "Game doesn't start"- Steam missing 32-bit library X, apt-get it.
As it sits right now- I don't have a single Linux game out of 199 that doesn't run well.
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I had a game crash. I know it happens occasionally, but it's pretty damn rare. I'm of course also running better, and less weird hardware these days than I was in the past, with less weird things done to my OS. None of the software is bleeding edge, it's just an old tried-and-true Ubuntu distribution. As I've become more lazy and less tinkerish, my system has become more stable (weird, right?)
Steam Linux? Yes - it works, sorta...Certain games works on it. And works just fine, but others like Ark - Survival evolved
Haven't played Ark on it (I have it for PS4) but of my 199 Steam Linux games, the vast majority work perfectly on my 1080Ti/7700K.
I'm also using it headless via Steam in-home streaming to stream the games to either the Steam Link attached to my TV, or my Laptop running Linux Steam. The system auto-logs in and auto-starts Steam in big-picture mode.
I couldn't be happier with Steam on Linux. I do also have a Windows partition on the machine, but I don't boot into it very often.
HL2, Civ, Portal, Total War series, Middle Earth, Shadowrun, Warhammer, Witcher, Arma, Counterstrike, POSTAL, Saints Row... It's amazing these days.
Of my 442 Steam games, 199 of them are supported under Linux.
Quite a few AAA titles these days, actually. I've been pleasantly surprised by that. When I first started using Steam on Linux for gaming, there wasn't much at all.
"Now, if I could only find the right kernel options to compile a Debian Kernel THAT WILL WORK WITH MY VIDEO CARD, I'd be relatively happy..."
You are sooooooooooooooooooooooo stuck in the past, man. Try getting something other than Tim Cook's semen in your diet. It'll clear your head.
Only someone who hasn't used a desktop Linux distribution in the last decade would say such a thing, and so shame on you for act like you're some kind of authority on anything other than how much pineapple Tim eats.
You don't have a functioning BS detector. If you did, you wouldn't submit as evidence for your argument someone attempting to make a fallacious comparison between a phone that has the antenna attenuated by touching it *anywhere* on the metal ring around its edge (why the fix was merely a rubber bumper) and phones that suffer issues if you completely occlude the internal antenna.
You *are* the bullshit, you just can't see it. You'll leap at any argument in defense of them, without running it through the smell test in your brain. That's a cult. And you're a part of it. Sorry, chap.
A quick look at statistics available online didn't indicate that to be true at all. I found at best, zero correlation between gun ownership and crime, at worst a slight correlation to gun ownership and amount of rape/sexual crimes.
Also, interestingly, it appears many towns in the midwest with very high rates of gun ownership have murder/rape rates that are astronomically high, much higher than any of the commonly criticized metropolitan areas. Of course all of them put together are less than the population of a single New York borough, so they're not nearly as news worthy as the big cities.
Am I missing something, or are you just completely full of shit?
Lol, ya... ok
You drink too much Kool-aid to objectively judge Apple, I think. That's ok. Their business model needs people like you so that people like me can continue to occasionally buy their products
I didn't say their product was mediocre... or that it was some sort of conspiracy. They take their Gucci machines very seriously, as do those who swear art just doesn't look as pretty or sound as good on anything else. There is a cult of personality surrounding Apple. Are you really trying to deny that? You need not defend their products to me- I own several
Same. Once I actually figured out what it was, it was no problem.. But I actually burned through a few cables before I figured out they weren't the problem (d'oh)
Now I just leave a toothpick in the nightstand.
Cattle, more so, I think.
Certainly some of them are customers. But many approach purchase of Apple products like they do their politics- it's a cult/sports team.
Phones, laptops, even my fucking Nintendo Switch. The lint problem is real, and annoying.
Funny enough, my iPhone however does not have USB-C (I'm still on a 6s) and no lint problems there.
Toothpick has been the easiest way to clean it out for me. I usually notice its a problem when I wake up one morning, and my Android hasn't charged overnight.
First, rudimentary graphics can be done with just text
Generally called a TUI, not a GUI.
But beyond that, there certainly are plenty of Linux applications that talk directly to the graphics hardware without any sort of server.
.... Rather few, these days, I suspect. Not a lot of people are running SDL apps that don't first ask the X server to let go of the framebuffer, because not many people are booting their desktops into a console. But sure, I guess you're technically correct.
People do lots of weird things with X servers -- there's Xvb, Xnest, LBX, etc. There may very well be some use case that somebody solves by running a Windows X server under Linux in some way (WINE? Virtualization?) -- I'm not going to second guess what they're doing without a lot more details.
Nesting and dummy X servers don't really count, as they don't help provide a GUI, which was the topic of this discussion...
But no, there will never be one that talks to Windows compositor running under Linux. It would take a tremendous amount of work on Microsoft's part, which would still just create something on the Windows side that translated X protocol into GDI calls... Which is what a Windows X server already does.
So yes, someone could absolutely run an X server under the Linux side. It just won't be a graphical one. Not unless Microsoft decides to implement a virtualized framebuffer in their kernel... which in the end will still be less powerful than just running an X server under the Windows side. This is the beauty of the X architecture- you run the graphical server close to the hardware. That hardware need not be the hardware that the program is running on.
Also- this isn't strictly true. While you're probably correct in that you may not be able to compile Wine without X integration- Wine is fully capable of running Windows console apps without handling any drawing.
Ultimately, it makes sense for Wine to implement a bridge between the GDI (or whatever it is these days) and X, since Wine has to implement the user-space side of the Win32 API, while on WSL, Microsoft does not. They only provide the kernel interface. They could of course roll an X server into WSL, but then they would deprive you of your ability to run multiple of them, configure them however you pleased, or run them however you pleased... It would be best if X support within the WSL framework was non-existent or optional, so that it didn't interfere with any X servers you may rather use.
Don't know. For all I know, the guys who do the packaging don't even know such a thing is possible. X client/server signaling requires no kernel support, it's just sockets, so Linux GUI support exists by virtue of sockets working... I suppose it's possible nobody on the development side ever bothered to try running X apps? Or perhaps they had some kind of evil nefarious reason to not want you to, like you realizing that a lot of the default shipped Gnome GUI apps are a lot better than their Windows equivalents, and with WSL+an X server run in a seamless window on their operating system making it really easy to supplant the native apps?
Slashdot Mirror
Erm... yes. They're implemented in WSL (lxss.sys). I think that was my point?
He's as bad as you are. You two are feeding off of each other and amplifying the voice of your ignorance quite nicely. Echo chambers are beautiful.
I actually haven't had the same experience. Almost all of the bugs I've run into were "Game doesn't start"- Steam missing 32-bit library X, apt-get it.
As it sits right now- I don't have a single Linux game out of 199 that doesn't run well.
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I had a game crash. I know it happens occasionally, but it's pretty damn rare. I'm of course also running better, and less weird hardware these days than I was in the past, with less weird things done to my OS. None of the software is bleeding edge, it's just an old tried-and-true Ubuntu distribution. As I've become more lazy and less tinkerish, my system has become more stable (weird, right?)
Steam Linux? Yes - it works, sorta...Certain games works on it. And works just fine, but others like Ark - Survival evolved
Haven't played Ark on it (I have it for PS4) but of my 199 Steam Linux games, the vast majority work perfectly on my 1080Ti/7700K.
I'm also using it headless via Steam in-home streaming to stream the games to either the Steam Link attached to my TV, or my Laptop running Linux Steam. The system auto-logs in and auto-starts Steam in big-picture mode.
I couldn't be happier with Steam on Linux. I do also have a Windows partition on the machine, but I don't boot into it very often.
HL2, Civ, Portal, Total War series, Middle Earth, Shadowrun, Warhammer, Witcher, Arma, Counterstrike, POSTAL, Saints Row... It's amazing these days.
Of my 442 Steam games, 199 of them are supported under Linux.
Quite a few AAA titles these days, actually. I've been pleasantly surprised by that. When I first started using Steam on Linux for gaming, there wasn't much at all.
"Now, if I could only find the right kernel options to compile a Debian Kernel THAT WILL WORK WITH MY VIDEO CARD, I'd be relatively happy..."
You are sooooooooooooooooooooooo stuck in the past, man. Try getting something other than Tim Cook's semen in your diet. It'll clear your head.
Only someone who hasn't used a desktop Linux distribution in the last decade would say such a thing, and so shame on you for act like you're some kind of authority on anything other than how much pineapple Tim eats.
You don't have a functioning BS detector. If you did, you wouldn't submit as evidence for your argument someone attempting to make a fallacious comparison between a phone that has the antenna attenuated by touching it *anywhere* on the metal ring around its edge (why the fix was merely a rubber bumper) and phones that suffer issues if you completely occlude the internal antenna.
You *are* the bullshit, you just can't see it. You'll leap at any argument in defense of them, without running it through the smell test in your brain. That's a cult. And you're a part of it. Sorry, chap.
A quick look at statistics available online didn't indicate that to be true at all. I found at best, zero correlation between gun ownership and crime, at worst a slight correlation to gun ownership and amount of rape/sexual crimes.
Also, interestingly, it appears many towns in the midwest with very high rates of gun ownership have murder/rape rates that are astronomically high, much higher than any of the commonly criticized metropolitan areas. Of course all of them put together are less than the population of a single New York borough, so they're not nearly as news worthy as the big cities.
Am I missing something, or are you just completely full of shit?
Lol, ya... ok You drink too much Kool-aid to objectively judge Apple, I think. That's ok. Their business model needs people like you so that people like me can continue to occasionally buy their products
I didn't say their product was mediocre... or that it was some sort of conspiracy. They take their Gucci machines very seriously, as do those who swear art just doesn't look as pretty or sound as good on anything else. There is a cult of personality surrounding Apple. Are you really trying to deny that? You need not defend their products to me- I own several
Same. Once I actually figured out what it was, it was no problem.. But I actually burned through a few cables before I figured out they weren't the problem (d'oh)
Now I just leave a toothpick in the nightstand.
+1 Gross But Not Wrong
their customer by definition
Cattle, more so, I think.
Certainly some of them are customers. But many approach purchase of Apple products like they do their politics- it's a cult/sports team.
Thunderbolt 3 using a USB-C port. Get a clue.
Phones, laptops, even my fucking Nintendo Switch. The lint problem is real, and annoying.
Funny enough, my iPhone however does not have USB-C (I'm still on a 6s) and no lint problems there. Toothpick has been the easiest way to clean it out for me. I usually notice its a problem when I wake up one morning, and my Android hasn't charged overnight.
Maybe... but the lint problem is real, and annoying as fuck.
I find that floppies just sound warmer
First, rudimentary graphics can be done with just text
Generally called a TUI, not a GUI.
But beyond that, there certainly are plenty of Linux applications that talk directly to the graphics hardware without any sort of server.
.... Rather few, these days, I suspect. Not a lot of people are running SDL apps that don't first ask the X server to let go of the framebuffer, because not many people are booting their desktops into a console. But sure, I guess you're technically correct.
People do lots of weird things with X servers -- there's Xvb, Xnest, LBX, etc. There may very well be some use case that somebody solves by running a Windows X server under Linux in some way (WINE? Virtualization?) -- I'm not going to second guess what they're doing without a lot more details.
Nesting and dummy X servers don't really count, as they don't help provide a GUI, which was the topic of this discussion...
But no, there will never be one that talks to Windows compositor running under Linux. It would take a tremendous amount of work on Microsoft's part, which would still just create something on the Windows side that translated X protocol into GDI calls... Which is what a Windows X server already does.
So yes, someone could absolutely run an X server under the Linux side. It just won't be a graphical one. Not unless Microsoft decides to implement a virtualized framebuffer in their kernel... which in the end will still be less powerful than just running an X server under the Windows side. This is the beauty of the X architecture- you run the graphical server close to the hardware. That hardware need not be the hardware that the program is running on.
Thank you!
I agree about Electron
Last I checked, Wine required an X server
Also- this isn't strictly true. While you're probably correct in that you may not be able to compile Wine without X integration- Wine is fully capable of running Windows console apps without handling any drawing.
Ultimately, it makes sense for Wine to implement a bridge between the GDI (or whatever it is these days) and X, since Wine has to implement the user-space side of the Win32 API, while on WSL, Microsoft does not. They only provide the kernel interface. They could of course roll an X server into WSL, but then they would deprive you of your ability to run multiple of them, configure them however you pleased, or run them however you pleased... It would be best if X support within the WSL framework was non-existent or optional, so that it didn't interfere with any X servers you may rather use.
Don't know. For all I know, the guys who do the packaging don't even know such a thing is possible. X client/server signaling requires no kernel support, it's just sockets, so Linux GUI support exists by virtue of sockets working... I suppose it's possible nobody on the development side ever bothered to try running X apps? Or perhaps they had some kind of evil nefarious reason to not want you to, like you realizing that a lot of the default shipped Gnome GUI apps are a lot better than their Windows equivalents, and with WSL+an X server run in a seamless window on their operating system making it really easy to supplant the native apps?
I did not know that about Xming. I have had no stability problems with whatever copy I downloaded (newest on sourceforge as of a month ago, or so)
Free. I did not know there was a paid.
This is false. I do exactly this.