Interesting, I always thought a gauss gun was a coil gun, and what you are describing is a rail gun.
Since gauss is a measure of magnetic field strength, and both of them use magnetic fields to propel the projectile (albeit through different mechanisms, since one is a passive projectile and the other is actually an odd form of single loop coil that has an unusually low resistance to deformation in one direction) it would make sense to me to call both gauss guns, and use coil/rail to differentiate the types.
Yup. Actually I was recently interested in coil guns and using my 3d printer to turn out some ideas I was having. It was fun but, I never actually even got to a working prototype. I did however do some reading up on what others have done and.... its a mixture of impressive and not so much.
This site http://www.coilgun.ru/ attempts to track and showcase where hobbiests have gotten on coil guns. Only a handful of them are at the point that I would consider them even passable weapons. Most are, at best, minor annoyances on the level of "you will put an eye out". Maybe some could kill/injure someone with a point blank shot directly to the eye socket, or a very "lucky" hit.
The most impressive I saw fired with an SCR and used a second SCR dampening circuit to shut down the original SCR.
~30 m/s seems to be about the best most designs have been able to hit, with many being far less than that, and only a few making it into the 45-50 m/s range. Even those top end seem to get only around 5-6 Joules of kinetic energy.
I thought it was odd too, he claimed he had heard of many immigrant families trying this and it causing massive house fires. Which, would make a lot of sense, I would assume turning the bathtub into a charcoal pit inside a building made of wood would tend to work out poorly.
That said, he is the only person I have ever heard concerned of such things, and in the decade since then have not heard of any fires started that way, so... either it happens so often that the news just ignores it (which seems unlikely since they report fires in general) or it was just a rumor based on something that may or may not have happened once or twice. A quick google search only seems to turn up suggestions for using a bathtub to brine a pig, which shouldn't involve filling the tub with coals.
> My landlord is so paranoid about getting them I have to initial three separate paragraphs in my lease
On a seperate note, I was once in the market for an apartment and was considering one that I didn't end up taking. The landlord was at about this level of paranoia about cockroaches. In fact, he said that if we did move in.... he wanted us to unpack all of our boxes outside, because he was afraid of the possibility of roaches getting into boxes and living off the packing tape glue.
That and he was specifically worried about the possibility that we would attempt to fill the bathtub with charcoal and roast a pig in it. He specifically forbade that too, not that such a thing ever would have seemed like a good idea to me, apparently the possibility worried him.
> Maybe they should figure out how to prevent them from reproducing instead of trapping a few > examples of a menace that, as the summary notes, numbers in the hundreds of thousands.
I have occasionally wondered about using some variation on "phage therapy" for this. As I understand the protocols, the basic outline is: 1. Breed target organism (originally bacteria infecting a patient) 2. Sample natural water, and filter it with a ceramic filter to leave behind only phages as biological material. 3. Apply samples of phage water to target organisms, watch for signs of infection and death 4. If reliable agent is found, use dead targets to make more and isolate a workable phage 5. if reliable agent not found, goto step 2.
There are a lot of viruses out there.... I would bet something infects bedbugs and kills them effectively, and just needs a little help finding them.
"Frightening people man. Bush tried to buy votes towards the end of the election. Goes around, you know, selling weapons to everyone, getting that military industrial complex vote happening for him. Sold 160 fighter jets to Korea and then 240 tanks to Kuwait and then goes around making speeches why he should be Commander-in-Chief because, "We still live in a dangerous world."...Thanks to you, you fucker!"
...and shortly thereafter all the "druggies" found new suppliers, the can was kicked down to some other neighborhood, addiction rates didn't change, since they never really do more than the yearly fluctuations.
All because the real problem wasn't them, it was the government and police who created the situation where opening up a storefront in a residential garage looked like a good and profitable idea.
Any physicist can tell you that "being invisible" is no defence against a sniper's bullet.
The problem here is, the entire "Parallel construction" is being used to hide the fact that the tree was poisoned. In fact, there is no reason to have parellel construction otherwise, since it actually adds nothing to the case: If you had enough evidence to pull him over and search him, then you don't need to wait for him to "drive erratically". If you didn't, then it doesn't give you any.
There is no other purpose here than to hide the poisoning of the tree so that it cannot be defended against.
> For casual writing the project may be useful, but I wonder how much imagery will be lost in > translation.
Except, did they not say it "suggests changes"? Doesn't that still leave the author free to either take the suggestion, or select a different phrasing or imagery choice?
I mean if it comes to "Wine dark sea" and suggests instead "deep red sea", or "sea of dark wine" I would assume the author would understand his original meaning and be able to work from there, and then iterate through it again to see if a different turn of phrase works better.
Backed into a truncheon? Ut oh, sounds like attempted assault on an officer now. Better call three more cops to bea....er restrain the uh.... slippery bastard. Dude should stop fighting, every time they pick him up he manages to wrestle free and throw himself against the ground, better put him on suicide watch too...wouldn't want him to hurt himself (or be believed)
I would submit the police have more reason to check out the frivolous noise complaint as it is actually a report of an actual infraction. Even if it was a bogus report the first 100 times, that 101st time could be a valid noise problem. Its an actual problem being reported.
This is...shopping and reading. No crime was reported to be investigated. Hell even my nosy neighbor who had the health department, environmental protection AND the fire department all down at the house telling her that we had all the appropriate permits for the work we were doing were all coming to investigate a situation where proper permiting and work practices are regulated and warranted investigation.
What crime is there in reading or shopping? In what way is the use of pressure cookers in a home regulated or requiring of a permit of some sort?
There was absolutely no reason to suspect anything warranting investigation.
> Well, I don't know about you, but if the police show up, act in a courteous and polite fashion, ask a > few questions, and then leave satisfied nothing bad is going on, I consider that a job well done. > They're out in the community, flying the flag, and helping people feel safe.
You should try living next door to my old neighbour. The problem here is the assumption that people who report things are reasonable and sane people.
The fact is, they should investigate if there is a reason to investigate and it should be more than perfectly normal behaviour (ie shopping and reading material related to recent news articles) to be suspected of anything.
The bigger problem, I think, is this notion that a terrorist attack happening is a failure of the police and intelligence services. In the end, its such a needle in a haystack sort of problem that its entirely unreasonable to think they can ever be prevented, therefore any acceptance of that reasoning that starts with they should be able to catch it, inevitably leads to excessive measures, and guarantees more excessive measures later WHEN the next one happens.
On the other hand, I think its easy for people's view of the severity of punishment to skew with incarceration. There may, in the end, be no better answer for some of the really extreme/rare cases. The true psychopath murders. However, I think most of us here are familiar with the concept in system design "optimise for the general case" and they are anything but.
The thing is, there always seems to be more cases for longer sentences. Look at some old cases, like Charles Ponzi, and you see a stark difference in attitudes towards punishment. A few years was considered a long time, whereas now, 5 or 10 year sentences are bandied about and sentences of months or a year or two are considered a slap on the wrist.
So maybe physical punishment would serve another purpose, to keep punishment in the moment and not allow people to shrug it off as just a number. I heard, just this morning on the news, a police official talking about how they are there after the cameras turn off and the press goes home. Maybe that is part of why we are so cavalier sometimes about what we ask them to punish and how much... because a sentence of years is just a number to everyone else.
Maybe.
In a way it makes me want to know more about this system. As barbaric as it feels to me, I have to wonder, what has happened to the number of lashes over time? What about the type of whip/cane? What about the book under the arm? How did these evolve? (though having experienced a "1 inch punch" demonstration, I am skeptical that is a real impediment over time as the lasher learns to control his arm better with it)
Except they said they do this "100 times a week". The implications of that are staggering. 100 times a week? That is 5200 raids a year.... if they are not putting terrorists away by the truckload then they have some serious explaining to do.
Fascinating. Ouch, that could still hurt....a lot. However, its not nearly what I, or I think most people, imagine at the idea of "lashings".
That said, I don't think the description really does justice to how much pain that really could still cause. A thin reed being so small can generate an awful lot of pain without doing much damage.
I guess in the grand scheme of these whether this is better or worst than being sentenced to time in jail is a matter of personal opinion (I might actually take the beating over the time if it was more than a week or two).... totally aside from how just disgusted I am at the reasons for it.
However, lets keep this in perspective... just a few years ago they wanted to stone a woman to death for "being seen in public with a man who was not her husband".... in an incident where the "witnesses" dragged her from a car and gang raped her.... but were not themselves charged with anything. Her life was only spared after international pressure.
So I guess this is.... not as terrible as that. Um.... good job guys.
of course, the funny thing is, I occasionally think twice about posting about smoking pot on here, even though I am not actually admitting to a crime in my state. Yet I don't think twice about admitting to having whipped someone for sexual purposes....when my state makes no exception for consensual bdsm in its domestic abuse laws, and doesn't require the "abused" to even agree that they were abused or want to press charges.
I doubt you can really put a number on it. I know there used to be superstition on exactly this topic and people used to only get some odd number for that reason; however, I think its likely that either someone once died while being whipped; starting the rumor, or someone started it just to have an excuse not to go overboard.
In reality I think it would come down to both the health of the person and the technique of the lasher. I have certainly given 150 or more lashings and seen others give even more/harder lashings but, I doubt anything we do in our bedrooms comes close to what these guys do.
Would also depend on the whip. A bull whip, for example, is much worst than most modern bsdm "cat o 9 tails" types that tend to be made from 10s of foot long strips of soft leather. In fact, I have heard people rant about idiots with no experience who buy bull whips as sex toys without realizing how much damage they can do.
Talking Carter/Reagan? If so, then I would also like to point out that the anti-intellectual pretend cowboy also used rather treasonous tactics to influence the election in his favor.... the same tactics that were recently revealed as having been used over a decade earlier by Nixon. (that is, colluding with an external entity to sink negotiations, while promising the same a better deal under the new administration of he gets elected)
Of course its not just the TSA. Normally I charge my phone in the car and turn on the gps with waze because I like reporting speed traps, and it has saved my bacon a few times by routing me around traffic.
Anyway today, of course, I left my phone at home, which is too bad because when reporting police/accidents whatever, there is an option to take a picture, and I totally saw the detail cop sitting in his cruiser, with his bubblegum machines going and taking a nap at the wheel.
How about that it is being run by a trustee that broke the trust by using it to write IOUs so that it could use the trust fund like a slush fund?
I have far less problem with SS which is implemented as a segregated tax all its own for a single purpose, than I am with with a fake segregated tax that really just siphons out into the main pool....they very one it was supposed to be segregated from.
If any other trust fund trustee operated the fund the same way that the federal government has operated the SS trust fund, we would be talking about how many lifetimes they should spend in jail.
The moment you write a document like the constitution, somebody is looking for how to game it. Over time they find technicality after technicality that allow them to push the envelope in new ways, until the entire spirit and intent of the original document is so shreded that it barely resembles what it was intended to.
How do we read amendments like the 4th and 5th so narrowly? Is it really ok that minor technological changes allow technicalities to be used to extend government powers in ways never before envisioned?
How does anyone seriously and honestly look at the constitution, then look at what is going on here, and not see that the only reason this doesn't get prohibited under them is minor technicalities that never could have been seen before they happened? Its a violation of the very spirit of the document!
One of ours will piss on things, or would...she did a very good job of training us to keep her litter box reasonable.
We still occasionally get steamers, but, we have multiple cats and leaving a log out in the open is a common way for the dominant cat to remind everybody of his claim. Cats really are assholes, if not for their ability to bend human will to their own, I doubt we would tolerate them.
You can read the whole discussion, I believe its public, but it was through the association of them also being foods that are taboo to eat for no real reason beyond cultural preferences.
I wouldn't cook any of my cats, but from the descriptions it seems like cat might be ok in a stew or soup. I have seen a few stories of cat consumption which tend to agree with this thought. In fact, most of the wikipedia headings on it seem to indicate stew is a common choice for those who eat cat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_meat
Overall though, I think this is part of why cats self-domesticated:
1. We don't eat the same things they do... vermin tend to not be worth our time. They are not terribly good meat themselves, and also not really worth our time. 2. They are not tasty nor worth our time in terms of meat:carcass ratio 3. They don't eat the same things we do... they can't taste sugar and their need for lysine makes them obligate carnivores, 4. They eat vermin who do eat the same things we do. Cats don't eat grain, but mice and rats do. 5. They can't harm us beyond a scratch or a bite, which can mean infection and even loss of limb or death, but that isn't really the same issue; a cat in such a fight with a human is most likely going to lose badly and quickly.
Throw in cuddly and warm, and its easy to see why cats and humans made natural, mutually beneficial, community, and why we let them move indoors with us.
Slashdot Mirror
Interesting, I always thought a gauss gun was a coil gun, and what you are describing is a rail gun.
Since gauss is a measure of magnetic field strength, and both of them use magnetic fields to propel the projectile (albeit through different mechanisms, since one is a passive projectile and the other is actually an odd form of single loop coil that has an unusually low resistance to deformation in one direction) it would make sense to me to call both gauss guns, and use coil/rail to differentiate the types.
Yup. Actually I was recently interested in coil guns and using my 3d printer to turn out some ideas I was having. It was fun but, I never actually even got to a working prototype. I did however do some reading up on what others have done and.... its a mixture of impressive and not so much.
This site http://www.coilgun.ru/ attempts to track and showcase where hobbiests have gotten on coil guns. Only a handful of them are at the point that I would consider them even passable weapons. Most are, at best, minor annoyances on the level of "you will put an eye out". Maybe some could kill/injure someone with a point blank shot directly to the eye socket, or a very "lucky" hit.
The most impressive I saw fired with an SCR and used a second SCR dampening circuit to shut down the original SCR.
~30 m/s seems to be about the best most designs have been able to hit, with many being far less than that, and only a few making it into the 45-50 m/s range. Even those top end seem to get only around 5-6 Joules of kinetic energy.
I thought it was odd too, he claimed he had heard of many immigrant families trying this and it causing massive house fires. Which, would make a lot of sense, I would assume turning the bathtub into a charcoal pit inside a building made of wood would tend to work out poorly.
That said, he is the only person I have ever heard concerned of such things, and in the decade since then have not heard of any fires started that way, so... either it happens so often that the news just ignores it (which seems unlikely since they report fires in general) or it was just a rumor based on something that may or may not have happened once or twice. A quick google search only seems to turn up suggestions for using a bathtub to brine a pig, which shouldn't involve filling the tub with coals.
> My landlord is so paranoid about getting them I have to initial three separate paragraphs in my lease
On a seperate note, I was once in the market for an apartment and was considering one that I didn't end up taking. The landlord was at about this level of paranoia about cockroaches. In fact, he said that if we did move in.... he wanted us to unpack all of our boxes outside, because he was afraid of the possibility of roaches getting into boxes and living off the packing tape glue.
That and he was specifically worried about the possibility that we would attempt to fill the bathtub with charcoal and roast a pig in it. He specifically forbade that too, not that such a thing ever would have seemed like a good idea to me, apparently the possibility worried him.
> Maybe they should figure out how to prevent them from reproducing instead of trapping a few
> examples of a menace that, as the summary notes, numbers in the hundreds of thousands.
I have occasionally wondered about using some variation on "phage therapy" for this. As I understand the protocols, the basic outline is:
1. Breed target organism (originally bacteria infecting a patient)
2. Sample natural water, and filter it with a ceramic filter to leave behind only phages as biological material.
3. Apply samples of phage water to target organisms, watch for signs of infection and death
4. If reliable agent is found, use dead targets to make more and isolate a workable phage
5. if reliable agent not found, goto step 2.
There are a lot of viruses out there.... I would bet something infects bedbugs and kills them effectively, and just needs a little help finding them.
Reminds me of an old Bill Hicks rant:
...and shortly thereafter all the "druggies" found new suppliers, the can was kicked down to some other neighborhood, addiction rates didn't change, since they never really do more than the yearly fluctuations.
All because the real problem wasn't them, it was the government and police who created the situation where opening up a storefront in a residential garage looked like a good and profitable idea.
Any physicist can tell you that "being invisible" is no defence against a sniper's bullet.
The problem here is, the entire "Parallel construction" is being used to hide the fact that the tree was poisoned. In fact, there is no reason to have parellel construction otherwise, since it actually adds nothing to the case: If you had enough evidence to pull him over and search him, then you don't need to wait for him to "drive erratically". If you didn't, then it doesn't give you any.
There is no other purpose here than to hide the poisoning of the tree so that it cannot be defended against.
> For casual writing the project may be useful, but I wonder how much imagery will be lost in
> translation.
Except, did they not say it "suggests changes"? Doesn't that still leave the author free to either take the suggestion, or select a different phrasing or imagery choice?
I mean if it comes to "Wine dark sea" and suggests instead "deep red sea", or "sea of dark wine" I would assume the author would understand his original meaning and be able to work from there, and then iterate through it again to see if a different turn of phrase works better.
Backed into a truncheon? Ut oh, sounds like attempted assault on an officer now. Better call three more cops to bea....er restrain the uh.... slippery bastard. Dude should stop fighting, every time they pick him up he manages to wrestle free and throw himself against the ground, better put him on suicide watch too...wouldn't want him to hurt himself (or be believed)
I would submit the police have more reason to check out the frivolous noise complaint as it is actually a report of an actual infraction. Even if it was a bogus report the first 100 times, that 101st time could be a valid noise problem. Its an actual problem being reported.
This is...shopping and reading. No crime was reported to be investigated. Hell even my nosy neighbor who had the health department, environmental protection AND the fire department all down at the house telling her that we had all the appropriate permits for the work we were doing were all coming to investigate a situation where proper permiting and work practices are regulated and warranted investigation.
What crime is there in reading or shopping? In what way is the use of pressure cookers in a home regulated or requiring of a permit of some sort?
There was absolutely no reason to suspect anything warranting investigation.
> Well, I don't know about you, but if the police show up, act in a courteous and polite fashion, ask a
> few questions, and then leave satisfied nothing bad is going on, I consider that a job well done.
> They're out in the community, flying the flag, and helping people feel safe.
You should try living next door to my old neighbour. The problem here is the assumption that people who report things are reasonable and sane people.
The fact is, they should investigate if there is a reason to investigate and it should be more than perfectly normal behaviour (ie shopping and reading material related to recent news articles) to be suspected of anything.
The bigger problem, I think, is this notion that a terrorist attack happening is a failure of the police and intelligence services. In the end, its such a needle in a haystack sort of problem that its entirely unreasonable to think they can ever be prevented, therefore any acceptance of that reasoning that starts with they should be able to catch it, inevitably leads to excessive measures, and guarantees more excessive measures later WHEN the next one happens.
On the other hand, I think its easy for people's view of the severity of punishment to skew with incarceration. There may, in the end, be no better answer for some of the really extreme/rare cases. The true psychopath murders. However, I think most of us here are familiar with the concept in system design "optimise for the general case" and they are anything but.
The thing is, there always seems to be more cases for longer sentences. Look at some old cases, like Charles Ponzi, and you see a stark difference in attitudes towards punishment. A few years was considered a long time, whereas now, 5 or 10 year sentences are bandied about and sentences of months or a year or two are considered a slap on the wrist.
So maybe physical punishment would serve another purpose, to keep punishment in the moment and not allow people to shrug it off as just a number. I heard, just this morning on the news, a police official talking about how they are there after the cameras turn off and the press goes home. Maybe that is part of why we are so cavalier sometimes about what we ask them to punish and how much... because a sentence of years is just a number to everyone else.
Maybe.
In a way it makes me want to know more about this system. As barbaric as it feels to me, I have to wonder, what has happened to the number of lashes over time? What about the type of whip/cane? What about the book under the arm? How did these evolve? (though having experienced a "1 inch punch" demonstration, I am skeptical that is a real impediment over time as the lasher learns to control his arm better with it)
Except they said they do this "100 times a week". The implications of that are staggering. 100 times a week? That is 5200 raids a year.... if they are not putting terrorists away by the truckload then they have some serious explaining to do.
Same gang of conspirators all three times too actually.
Fascinating. Ouch, that could still hurt....a lot. However, its not nearly what I, or I think most people, imagine at the idea of "lashings".
That said, I don't think the description really does justice to how much pain that really could still cause. A thin reed being so small can generate an awful lot of pain without doing much damage.
I guess in the grand scheme of these whether this is better or worst than being sentenced to time in jail is a matter of personal opinion (I might actually take the beating over the time if it was more than a week or two).... totally aside from how just disgusted I am at the reasons for it.
However, lets keep this in perspective... just a few years ago they wanted to stone a woman to death for "being seen in public with a man who was not her husband".... in an incident where the "witnesses" dragged her from a car and gang raped her.... but were not themselves charged with anything. Her life was only spared after international pressure.
So I guess this is.... not as terrible as that. Um.... good job guys.
of course, the funny thing is, I occasionally think twice about posting about smoking pot on here, even though I am not actually admitting to a crime in my state. Yet I don't think twice about admitting to having whipped someone for sexual purposes....when my state makes no exception for consensual bdsm in its domestic abuse laws, and doesn't require the "abused" to even agree that they were abused or want to press charges.
People here still talk about paddleborough
I doubt you can really put a number on it. I know there used to be superstition on exactly this topic and people used to only get some odd number for that reason; however, I think its likely that either someone once died while being whipped; starting the rumor, or someone started it just to have an excuse not to go overboard.
In reality I think it would come down to both the health of the person and the technique of the lasher. I have certainly given 150 or more lashings and seen others give even more/harder lashings but, I doubt anything we do in our bedrooms comes close to what these guys do.
Would also depend on the whip. A bull whip, for example, is much worst than most modern bsdm "cat o 9 tails" types that tend to be made from 10s of foot long strips of soft leather. In fact, I have heard people rant about idiots with no experience who buy bull whips as sex toys without realizing how much damage they can do.
Its likely highly variable.
Talking Carter/Reagan? If so, then I would also like to point out that the anti-intellectual pretend cowboy also used rather treasonous tactics to influence the election in his favor.... the same tactics that were recently revealed as having been used over a decade earlier by Nixon.
(that is, colluding with an external entity to sink negotiations, while promising the same a better deal under the new administration of he gets elected)
Of course its not just the TSA. Normally I charge my phone in the car and turn on the gps with waze because I like reporting speed traps, and it has saved my bacon a few times by routing me around traffic.
Anyway today, of course, I left my phone at home, which is too bad because when reporting police/accidents whatever, there is an option to take a picture, and I totally saw the detail cop sitting in his cruiser, with his bubblegum machines going and taking a nap at the wheel.
But hey, details keep us safe they say.
How about that it is being run by a trustee that broke the trust by using it to write IOUs so that it could use the trust fund like a slush fund?
I have far less problem with SS which is implemented as a segregated tax all its own for a single purpose, than I am with with a fake segregated tax that really just siphons out into the main pool....they very one it was supposed to be segregated from.
If any other trust fund trustee operated the fund the same way that the federal government has operated the SS trust fund, we would be talking about how many lifetimes they should spend in jail.
The moment you write a document like the constitution, somebody is looking for how to game it. Over time they find technicality after technicality that allow them to push the envelope in new ways, until the entire spirit and intent of the original document is so shreded that it barely resembles what it was intended to.
How do we read amendments like the 4th and 5th so narrowly? Is it really ok that minor technological changes allow technicalities to be used to extend government powers in ways never before envisioned?
How does anyone seriously and honestly look at the constitution, then look at what is going on here, and not see that the only reason this doesn't get prohibited under them is minor technicalities that never could have been seen before they happened? Its a violation of the very spirit of the document!
One of ours will piss on things, or would...she did a very good job of training us to keep her litter box reasonable.
We still occasionally get steamers, but, we have multiple cats and leaving a log out in the open is a common way for the dominant cat to remind everybody of his claim. Cats really are assholes, if not for their ability to bend human will to their own, I doubt we would tolerate them.
You can read the whole discussion, I believe its public, but it was through the association of them also being foods that are taboo to eat for no real reason beyond cultural preferences.
I wouldn't cook any of my cats, but from the descriptions it seems like cat might be ok in a stew or soup. I have seen a few stories of cat consumption which tend to agree with this thought. In fact, most of the wikipedia headings on it seem to indicate stew is a common choice for those who eat cat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_meat
Overall though, I think this is part of why cats self-domesticated:
1. We don't eat the same things they do... vermin tend to not be worth our time. They are not terribly good meat themselves, and also not really worth our time.
2. They are not tasty nor worth our time in terms of meat:carcass ratio
3. They don't eat the same things we do... they can't taste sugar and their need for lysine makes them obligate carnivores,
4. They eat vermin who do eat the same things we do. Cats don't eat grain, but mice and rats do.
5. They can't harm us beyond a scratch or a bite, which can mean infection and even loss of limb or death, but that isn't really the same issue; a cat in such a fight with a human is most likely going to lose badly and quickly.
Throw in cuddly and warm, and its easy to see why cats and humans made natural, mutually beneficial, community, and why we let them move indoors with us.