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Surveillance Story Turns Into a Warning About Employer Monitoring
rtfa-troll writes "The story from yesterday about the Feds monitoring Google searches has turned into a warning about how work place surveillance could harm you. It turns out that Michele Catalano's husband's boss tipped off the police after finding 'suspicious' searches (including 'pressure cooker bombs') in his old work computer's search history. Luckily for the Catalanos, who even allowed a search of their house when they probably didn't have to, it seems the policemen and FBI agents were professional and friendly. Far from being imperiled by a SWAT raid, Catalano spoke to some men in black cars who were polite and even mentioned to Catalano that 99 times out of 100, these tip-offs come to nothing. Perhaps the lesson is to be a bit more careful about your privacy, so that what you do on the internet remains between you and the professionals at the NSA."
Okay. So, accept that the NSA *could* be watching, but there's not much point in worrying about it if you don't even clear your browser history when you're done.
Fair is fair. These people deserve compensation for the time, effort, hassle, and (especially) anxiety. If the victims of government failure were properly compensated every time, I think we would find that these commonplace "mistakes" would quickly become the exception rather than the rule.
Oh I see. The man searched thinks it was all just a misunderstanding. I guess that makes it OK then.
I guess it also covers the costs in time, money, equipment and paperwork spent on a search that should never have happened. I guess it also makes up for any useful work the men involved could have been engaged in like looking for actual terrorists or investigating organised crime in the banks. I would worry about how the NSA's Ur-dragnet/Informer hotline is throwing up so many false flags that law enforcement is now too busy to deal with actual problem, but this splendidly chipper blog post had allayed all of my concerns.
I'm glad that's all cleared up then.
May the Maths Be with you!
I take away a different lesson from this: maybe it's a good idea to wait until you have more facts before starting to run around screaming "The sky is falling!!!!111".
The fact that some real shady things in terms of corporate and governmental surveillance do go on is no reason to just give up being rational.
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
Certainly be careful about search strings which have no other determinable purpose than terrorism. A search for "chainsaw" could imply running a muck thru a bus station but might also relate to tree clearance. "Shot gun" might mean references to hunting or skeet shooting. But what would someone use a pressure cooker bomb or a ammonium nitrate bomb for other than blowing up people. Its not like one would run around the woods with a pressure cooker bomb to hunt deer or a car bomb as a party favorite.
So, this story turns out to be nothing to do with the NSA but you think what the hell, I'll add a sarcastic sentence about the NSA to the summary to make it look like its malign.
The false accuser was from ancient times recognised as a particularly low felon.
But not in todays USA Inc. Instead of flogging snitches we encourage them. The former employer should be punished severely for using the cops like this, but probably will be encouraged to do it again instead.
confused by your joint mention of "workplace monitoring" and being "more careful about your privacy." In most corporations, privacy and monitoring settings are, as your headline suggests, determined by the employer, and employees currently have no legal rights that trump the employer's right to determine those settings, in part to enable monitoring which the company is legally entitled and in some cases required to do, and in many cases is required to allow its systems to be open in various ways to law enforcement examination. If by "more careful about your privacy" you mean "don't search for backpacks to buy at work," I'm honestly not sure how to turn that into an effective privacy principle, beyond "don't do anything at work."
Say something. I feel so much safer.
So that's 1% detection rate. Times N people spending M hours, intimindating 99% of their visitees needlessly... Shirley a good use of police time, resources, money, and whatnot. It's telling that people are mostly glad it wasn't a SWAT squad.
A nice friendly just acting on a tip search where "nothing really happened" or a full on uncalled for swat raid.
For the affected family directly, sure the nice friendly one is better, but more attention is drawn by the swat raid and the public reacts more. This shit can't be tolerated without something really solid, and researching on the subjects of recent news items isn't anywhere near solid.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Perhaps the lesson is to be a bit more careful about your privacy, so that what you do on the internet remains between you and the professionals at the NSA.
I know you're being snarky, Slashdot, but I'd trust the professionals at the NSA over middle management any day of the week. The NSA doesn't ruin your life if it goes through your google history and finds a few keywords. It doesn't assume the worst. The NSA gathers up the data, forwards it to a team of analysts, and, seeing this kind of thing every day, make an informed and reasoned decision to either forward it up the chain, or bin it. And as your own article says: 99 times out of 100, it's nothing. That's probably a conservative estimate; There have only been a few dozen acts of bona fide terrorism in the past year or so, and if the tin foil hat crowd is right, the NSA is monitoring everyone pervasively, so it's more like 999,999 times out of a 1,000,000.
The moral of the story here is that people who aren't law enforcement are really, really, epic bad at being judges of character. Especially when you're dealing with someone whose job is often earned on something other than critical thinking skills, investigative talent, and attention to detail... three things I think most will agree you don't find in most mid-level managers. It's like how during the midst of the Boston bombing, the internet armchair sleuth crowd wrongly identified many innocent people and forced the police to divert valuable resources to take those people into protective custody while the real bomber was left unidentified. The professionals, meanwhile, correctly identified them hours later, and then took them down without any innocent people getting caught in the cross fire.
I know it's politically popular right now to say law enforcement is a bunch of clueless, authoritarian, surveillance-happy asshats, but that's a slanted view. On the whole, they know what they're doing, and most of the time they get it right. You only hear about the times when they screw up. Now, considering how low of esteem they're held in for that track record, ask yourselves about the track record of middle managers, internet armchair pundits, and vigilantes have had doing the same things... and I'm betting their reputation with you is a lot better.
Chew on that for a bit.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Prediction: this article will not get 850 comments, and many people will continue pointing to this story as proof that Google lets the federal government rifle through all of everyone's data.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
99 times out of 100, these tip-offs come to nothing
That's not quite what was said. From the original blog ; "they mentioned that they do this about 100 times a week. And that 99 of those visits turn out to be nothing."
So we have three possibilities;
1/ this statistic is a bullshit overstatement, talking up a minimal danger
2/ they are arresting terrorist bombers at a rate of 1 a week
3/ they are prosecuting 1 person a week on an unrelated matter, after gaining access to their house on the pretext of "war against terrorism".
Which do we think it is?
If there was some sort of massive sifting of google terms by local law enforcement, or the NSA were passing on every single combination of "pressure cooker + backpack", there wouldn't be an isolated incident, there would be tens of thousands of these investigations. How many other terms would get similar scrutiny? Would local police act on all of the millions of searches that would throw up a red flag?
The police might be increasingly militarized, but they aren't limitless in either manpower or funding, as much as they would have you believe otherwise.
What I'd like to know from all this is why the police are now so frequently travelling around in armed units just to conduct inquiries.
I would of thought a brown shirt would be more fitting for the modern government employee.
Perhaps the lesson is don't search for a pressure cooker bomb at work, dumbass.
Typing "pressure cooker" lists pressure cooker bomb as the 3rd suggestion in Google.
Jason.
What made this different from all the other people who searched for "pressure cooker bomb" on Google after the Boston bombing and didn't have the MIB show up at their door? The employer?
I googled 'pressure cooker bomb' recently because I didn't even know they existed until I heard about them on the news.
Moral of the story: don't be curious about Bad Things.
Or maybe the moral is "ban the news." It just spreads information about Bad Things.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
So now we know the original story about how she was searching for information on pressure cookers while her husband was shopping for a backpack isn't quite true.
It was in fact searches of 'pressure cooker bombs' and 'backpacks' being done on the same computer.
A surveillance society is still a surveillance society and this story simply reveals how this is done in the real world. While lots of people have fantasies about the NSA reading their email or looking at their porn habits in the real world this is done by peoples employers day in day out.
Put down the tin foil hats, have a wake up call and realize that your employers are the ones performing the real world surveillance on the contents of your browsing, email and other habits.
So Catalano's husband loses his job in May, and his former employer is just now searching the internet history of the computer the guy worked on? Or if he found it earlier, when did he report it to law enforcement? And if he reported it back in May, why did law enforcement just now get around to investigating it? If they knew about it in May and just now got around to speaking with the Catalano's in August, they couldn't have thought it was an immediate or serious threat. This bit of info about the employer tip actually raises more questions about this incident.
That's it - I'm screwed. If my employer ever hands my browsing history to any three letter agency, I'm done for. If I'm not, I will be when my employer looks at the sheer volume of websites visited and divides that by the number of hours in a day.
so that what you do on the internet remains between you and the professionals at the NSA
That is a disheartening line, to say the least. It implies that I, a citizen ( not of the USA, but that does not matter anything at all in the current security craze context ) should take the NSA's simply for granted.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=backpacks+pressure+cookers
"... And no one there to CATCH YOU..." - Black Sabbath Sign of the Southern Cross http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVNx4syIpVQ
Aramaic - the oldest form of Hebrew:
Luke 10:18 = Jesus said "I beheld SATAN falling as Lightning (Aramaic = Baraq) from (O/U) the Heavens (Aramaic = Baw-Ma)"
SiMplY put, this was a sIlly MisunderstAnding, nothing More. WEll it remiNds me of this Time we TOok the dc MEtro from Crystal City to Archives AND ALong the way somehow we got Lost Inside the pentaGOn sTop. We ended up ASking THIS poLice Officer for instrUction. SuddenlY there was a BOoMing voice on the speaker nearBy adVising pEople to STay with their belongings. Then we noticed ALL of the trAins tHere were not rUnning. And Know why? BAckpack we had left in a caR!
oops!
So dad searched pressure cookers at work and the employer allegedly turned this over to the cops, but who turned in mom's Google search history? How was the match made? Was there a request made too Google? Did the Feds hack the computers using a MS-NSA or Apple-NSA backdoor? According to the article, the task force didn't even look at the computers or confiscate them.
This is only half a story, (if it is indeed true about the employer turning over the suspicious weblogs). How did the Feds/Police/Joint Task Force get the other half of the info.
And according to the article this occurs 100 times per week and we are just hearing about it.
There is more to this story and this simple explanation is only half of it.
You CAN be too careful.
Before calling the police in a non-urgent situation, ask yourself
"If everyone in my exact situation called the police, a few crimes may be prevented but a lot of lives would be intruded on and a lot of police resources and taxpayer money would be spent. Would it be better for society if, as a rule, the police were called in this exact situation or if, as a rule, they were not?"
This goes not just for bombs but for thinks like someone unfamiliar walking around your neighborhood at 3AM, your kid's friend sporting frequent unexplained bruises, and the guy who who hangs round the local kiddie park without kids in tow.
Each of these "no matter what I do, there's a good chance that I could wind up doing the wrong thing" cases and many others like it require a gut-check and a realistic assessment of the situation before calling the police. Sometimes the "best answer" is to call the cops. Sometimes the "best answer" is to talk to the person acting suspicious or get friends and neighbors together and talk to the person. Sometimes the "best answer" is to do nothing.
Finally, if you do make a well-thought-out decision and it turns out to be wrong - if you DON'T turn in the guy who searches for pressure cookers and he turns out to be a bomber, or if you DO turn him in and as a result the police are busy interviewing the person and can't get to an armed-robber-in-progress call in time to avoid bloodshed, don't feel guilty about your decision.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I once had a friend email me at work with the subject "IRC" and the message "get your @ss on IRC". My employer (small company, 50 people) was running some kind of filtering software and flagged the message. Resulted in the head of HR talking to the head of IT who then pulled me aside and asked me what IRC was.
Ultimately nothing came of it, but I wasn't very happy to discover that they were secretly snooping through employees' email. They certainly have the right to do it, but I think it's unethical to do so without notifying people of the policy. There's no reason it needs to be a secret.
This is why when in the past I worked for others I always surfed via my own personal hotspot, not the corporate network. Yes, it does not help you with the NSA, but it at least avoids the entire issue of corporate IT.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
I don't use work PCs for anything but that. If I want personal connectivity I can pay for it.
Jobs which do not use computers don't pay for me to surf on their time, either.
A computer is like any other tool, for example a milling machine or a welder. If I want to borrow one of those for a bit, I ASK the shop owner.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Why do you assume a match was made? Because the mom said so? A more likely scenario is that the dad searched "pressure cooker bombs" from a work computer, then an IT manager saw the search and called the police. The mom then tried to make the story more exciting by claiming he only searched for "pressure cookers" and she searched for "backpacks" and the search terms were matched up. Probably you should be more sceptical of the mom's story.
IMO, there's plenty of blame to go around everywhere, in this story.
First and foremost? Let's talk about "middle management" a bit. WHY would someone feel a need to sift through a former employer's search queries in the first place? Honestly, I've worked in corporate I.T. for 20+ years now and none of us ether wasted time with that stuff. If the company let go of the person already, it's "water under the bridge" at that point. What good does it to anyone to discover that, "Hey! It turns out Joe was looking up performance parts for his truck during the day!" or even, "Wow! Who knew Dan was into gay porn??"
The fact is, the current employees who'd have any legitimate reason to touch the former employee's computer should be using their time efficiently (meaning wiping the drive and re-imaging the machine so it's ready for the next user) instead of snooping around to see what the last guy left behind. If there's a concern the person left important documents on the C: drive instead of putting them out on the server for safe keeping, that's one thing. But that doesn't involve opening up a browser history.
Anyone who's a manager who thought it was a good use of time to order I.T. to retrieve the guy's old search results (or wasted time doing it himself before he'd turn the computer back over to be re-imaged) needs to re-think his/her priorities. If there was truly some concern about the person looking at non work related things on the net, that should have been addressed while he still worked there.
But as for these NSA professionals? I don't think these guys are "clueless" at all. I'm pretty sure the organization is full of some of the more intelligent people receiving a govt. paycheck. But that doesn't make them any less dangerous to individual rights or freedom from government oppression. Right now, the country is pretty clearly divided into two camps; those who believe the whole terrorist threat thing is a real and present danger to the country, and without government's constant vigilance, we all might die at any time... and those who think it's over-hyped/over-blown, and simply used as an excuse for government to give itself new powers it wasn't supposed to have. (Guess which camp I'm in?)
Great! So I don't have to worry about the NSA wiretapping my communications. I only have to worry about neighbours snitching on me and resentful co-workers calling up the police based on spurious accusations. I feel so much safer!
A Texas teen was sent to jail because a Canadian woman called the police after he made a violent joke in a video game. In Wisconsin, armed agents raided a barn because of two anonymous calls citing that there was a baby deer there. And there's this story.
There are always plenty of comments about authorities being overzealous in such matters, but I think these people who call things in don't get enough of the blame even if they mean well.
Hindsight is 20/20, and I don't have any proposals to do anything about it, but I feel better for having ranted.
Don't use work computers for personal stuff, ever. Don't date at work either. You'll avoid a lot of problems that way.
I'd like to call bullshit on the whole thing. It now seems like a set up incident to make it look like if you just accept the spying and invasion of privacy that everything will be "all better". The whole thing is a fluff piece to paint the NSA in a nicer light with recent PR that has been against them.
Just because I have intellectual curiosity on how they built a bomb with a pressure cooker, does not in any way mandate that I'm interested in building one. I'm interested in how submarines work too, but I can't imagine wanting to build one. In either case, I should be able to investigate this without being harassed at my home. THAT is what the constituion is all about, limiting the government so I can be free to explore ideas, without harrassment.
I guess it also covers the costs in time, money, equipment and paperwork spent on a search that should never have happened.
This strikes me as a really naive statement.
The main problem with the original story was HOW the data was come by - Google piping searches to he feds is not acceptable.
But now we find they came by the information from a tip. Are you saying that if someone calls the police saying someone is looking up bomb making online that they should just totally ignore all this?
Just when exactly should the police get interested? Is it only at the moment when arms and legs are flying? Is there no point at which a warning from someone concerned should be questioned at all?
It doesn't sound like it was much of an "expense" since it was entirely local police doing the search. They just drove over, so perhaps it was $100 in gas...
There are plenty of examples of abuse of police power - to claim this is one of them weakens the case of the others being wrong.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Other people with access to your computer (like repair shops) could label you as child pornographer for having pictures of your grandchildren playing on it (and your cellphone would be a liability too). Your digital life must become your self-censored digital life because someone could take out of context something you did or recorded and use it against you.
Puh-leeeez. Finding a search string in your history is suddenly grounds for summoning the FBI? I think not... no crime here people, move along. Doing a search for something perhaps you see mentioned in the news but know nothing of personally happens a billion times a day.
It really creeps me out how people will push a story like this as if surveilance in the wake of lawful activity was a good thing.
FEH!
"the professionals at the NSA" Huh? You mean those two guys, Gen. Clapper and Gen. Alexander, who lied before congress? Or do you mean the fellow who took his oath, both in the US Army and to his gov't, seriously? http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5324/9015134540_462a8637a0_b.jpg
Enact and FOLLOW a sane Foreign Policy that is not controlled by oil and entertainment corporations (harder to tell them apart by their actions these days), not to mention the Military-Industrial complex.
Walk the Human Rights walk by not supporting or turning a blind eye to murderous tyrants, regardless of their ethnicity, religion, or our history with them.
And the hardest part of all: stop trying to impose USian attitudes and mores overseas. Past a certain point, you have to treat certain cultures like a truly alien race, and hope that in the future, they evolve (on their own) and cast off their ignorance, violence, and the most common of all: misogyny.
Because even the most high-minded of meddling leads to nothing but terrorism and the absolute guarantee of those events being exploited by 'leaders' for power and profit (see: current events).
Nerds everywhere are googling this term.
If you are using your employers equipment they get the right to snoop. Which brings me to a very important issue. You've been using our toilet and toilet paper in our bathroom and reviews of the video tape show a wiping technique that is wasting paper which is a company resource. Please be in the main conference room at 10 am tomorrow for re-training.
What makes you think that the woman's search history was involved at all?
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
To make downmodders "less scared" (either suppressing what they don't want seen, or since the topic is spooky to a degree) since downmods with no debate obviously project that much?
Barack = http://www.babynames.com/name/Barack - Baruch = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch (both = blessed) and Bama = son of prophecy http://babynames.allparenting.com/list/hebrew_baby_names/bama/details/ (which prophecy though? The earlier above stuff or what's here now? That's been my point here!)
(See how easy it is to twist things both ways? Kind of like Secret Courts reinterpeting laws!)
Boy - I'll tell you all 1 thing: When the President changed his name from Barry Soetoro, http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/07/barry-soetoro-aka-barack-obama-disappears-from-dc-voter-registration-site-following-exposure-by-bloggers/ he really messed up because his name can go "either way". That or the jews did in their language and the dude had no clue! I doubt that. He's a constitutional lawyer. Their JOB is to play with words and legal interpretations. Maybe he was out to play with everyone's head? Dangerous IF so.
The only things leaning the "other way" per the earlier posts is what the Illuminati/Masons data showed along with Albert Pike here http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/symbology/1o5.htm . However, that too can go "the other way" as well (at least for lower order masons during initiation and what they loiok for in potential members).
Then again, Satan is the King of Liars too. Al Taqiyya is a Muslim belief that also says it's ok to lie http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm, and iirc, Obama claims to be Muslim in faith Didn't he take the Presidential oath on a Qu'ran? It's ok to lie though. Considering campaign promises broken left and right.
No one can tell me muslims are a religion of peace when you start to look at them saying 'cut off the heads of non-believers' and such) and yet Lucifer is the Light Bringer (who like Masons 'wants to better you'). Then Christianity had the Crusades too. Jews and their Talmud saying we're cattle and far worse is yet another.
However beliefs of Luciferianism are a lot like Masonic ideals on self improvement/becoming God-Like etc. - is that bad? Depends on who's looking (like most things, everything is a dichotomy and a matter of perception and Lord knows the Jews and Arabs, though related/same family tree in antiquity are polar opposites hating one another (dumb imo, they're relatives)). Christian counterpoint is that God loves us, and is a good Dad: warning against things veiled that look good up front and screw you in the end... ala you "sold your soul for rock-n-roll" for a lifetime, only to burn in hell forever.
What to believe, right?
Well, quoting the tune the last time now from its 1st lyric: "If there isn't LIGHT" (light bringer lucifer?) "when no one sees" (which downmods hide things here right (wrong)), "then how can I know what you might believe? A story told that can't be real" (or is it Luke 10:18 ) "somehow must reflect the truth we feel" (nobody likes the NSA prism (rainbow))?
However, I'm not asking anyone to believe one way, or another. Lmao, don't know what to believe either on many things in a world of "spin" and presses owned by biased parties (but biased journalism sells more magazines!)
For me, this was simply just an exercise in some pretty strangely coincidental material too, 1st presenting 1 persective and now another. You know: To 'enlighten' you, lol!
Just to see how you'd react (with musica
Still dont see why people are bringing google/nsa/whatever govt snooping.
Case was pretty simple.
A private corporation, was thinking about laying off a particular individual (probably for spending too much time online searching for stuff). Probably had the IT guys look at what this guy was doing at work. Seeing that he was looking up backpacks and pressure cookers, after they laid him off, alerted local police that something might be amiss.
A story like this ought to get the people who say "I'm doing nothing wrong, so I have nothing to hide" to shut the hell up, but it won't.
Christ on a crutch. Raise your hand if you didn't Google the phrase "pressure cooker bomb" in the days after the Marathon. I did. I had never heard of this particular IED and wanted to know more about it.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
Probably the other searches weren't even taken into account. It seems more like the police asked about pressure cookers so the dad said "oh yeah I was searching for those the other day" and then mom remembers "oh I was searching for backpacks" then they put those together with the recent news about the NSA and hit the media with it.
Well, I don't know about you, but if the police show up, act in a courteous and polite fashion, ask a few questions, and then leave satisfied nothing bad is going on, I consider that a job well done.
As a thought experiment, imagine that the couple had been Muslim, but otherwise exactly the same people. Does anyone honestly still think the visit by police would have been so courteous and polite? And yet in the USA we supposedly have freedom of religion, which should guarantee equal treatment by law enforcement whatever one's beliefs.
And it doesn't matter where the tip came from, this kind of thing is wrong, potentially dangerous, and not the way I want my Country to be. So it's just civilians spying on other civilians, that somehow makes it OK for a squad of armed police to show up at someone's home on the basis of a Google search term? Seriously??? Is this really the kind of society you want to live in? This is simply NOT acceptable police behavior, and never will be, regardless of who sends in the tip. A society in which an online search for anything at all, legal or otherwise, causes the police to knock on the door is simply not a free society, no matter how you want to spin it.
Now, just imagine if it was equally qualified, equally socially/professionally placed, Ahmad and Ayesha instead of Cateleno and Michelle.
or Gupta and Sangita
or anything else.
Just, imagine.
A very different set of headlines would result.
Cataleno, don't make things look simpler.
I admit I don't backup my data as often as I should, it gives me comfort the NSA has a full backup of everything that's important to me.
That is, could anyone else have accessed the employee's computer while he was away from it at any time? If so, how do you know the employee actually did the searches? Well he confessed, but otherwise this was really a fishing expedition precipitated by a vindictive ex-boss. The employee should be looking at suing the ex-boss for harassment.
I remember when I was 14-15 y.o. and internet was young(er). There was this hugely popular "Anarchist Cookbook" online with instructions how to do all kinds of stuff. Termite to waste cars, molotov cocktails and so on. I sometimes wonder how many hundreds of thousands if not millions of us kids read that exciting stuff who didn't become terrorists.
Yet it takes just one fucking CAR armed with GASOLINE to kill lots of more people than the Boston bombs. Just 1 week before christmas
1. buy a cheap 2nd hand car
2. take the most crowded shopping street in a major city
3. drive rampage.
How'd you protect against that? YOU CAN'T! EFFing impossible.
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