Create your own, force it on your customers. Of course they would prefer that their tech become commonplace, besides, flash is mainstream on Linux too, so if they can find a way to lock Linux out by making an alternative they delay Linux growth in market share.
The way games are getting better visual wise, and tech is getting more powerful, I have a feeling we might see at least an early version of a Holodeck in our lifetimes.
Now I ALSO hope that by that time Linux will be the OS of choice for the manufacturer, I simply will not survive a BSOD in glorious Holodeck VR...
On a side note, I think they will try and push it for another few years, somewhere they will either run into the "is it worth the hassle" brick wall, or they will have created the only avenue of getting legitimate content by locking out those who don't embrace the technology.
As to your question HOW, I don't think there is one way that suit's all, if you catch my drift. I for one did not set out to disprove Christianity, but others did. I actually met a guy, and spent time with him, who is a physicist. He could not reconcile the Biblical view of the world with what he knew about physics and scientific discovery.
So he went so far as to and learn what we call "skykerskrif", uh I forget the correct english word but the word literally means "Nail Language" to read the actual original dead sea scrolls and other artefacts found that our Bible is based on.
Only after having gone that far did he satisfy himself that there is indeed a God, that it is the Judeo Christian God, and that the Biblical account of the world as we know it is accurate.
And no, he does not adhere to Young Earth Creationism, if you were wondering...
From my point of view the best place to start is with the study of the life of Jesus. Forget the other crap even Christian churches cannot agree on. And please dear lord do not - repeat not - pay any attention to anything remotely resembling Kent Hovind...
You may be interested in some of the works of Josh Mcdowell. He went out to disprove the Christian religion as based on myth and that journey ended with him converting.
He asks a very good question.
Was Jesus a "Good Moral Teacher" Was Jesus a "Lunatic" Was Jesus "God"
Suffice it to say, without flooding you with stuff, that Jesus could not have been a good moral teacher if he were not God, because that would have made him a LIAR. He claimed on several occasions to be God, and a moral man of sound mind would not do that and knowingly mislead thousands.
A columb in LinuxFormat magazine last year remarked how Office 2007 created the best opportunity for OO to make a dent in the market. My wife also "converted" without incident haha, and she also uses Linux exclusively now...
Oh, don't go changing the subject now. The issue is not the number of atheists - I am perfectly aware there are several times more Christians in the United States than atheists. The issue is the number of atheists who have converted to Christianity.
I wasn't trying to change the subject, it was merely an observation. As to the issue you noted, I think an accurate gauge would be to see a percentage comparison. A mere number comparison might not be as good a gauge. As for how many Christians became Atheist, from where I am standing they are not that many. Remember though that I am Christian, and a missionary. So not only is my Job to convince people that Jesus is Lord, I do not mingle with many Atheists socially, so my view is biased - from where you stand the reverse might be true (i.e. from your viewpoint)
That 50% of your examples aren't from the U.S., and can't figure into the percentage for this country.
What country my examples are from is not the point. I am not from the US, and I had no idea where you are from, so naturally my examples where not chosen from any geographical location.
I think it's fairly easy - name more atheists who converted to Christianity. If it happens "often" as you suggest, there surely must be some articles on the subject, maybe some organizations for such individuals, guestimations on the number of converts, etc.
1. I could name and you could name and what we really would need is a peer reviewed scientific study on the subject, no? I found nothing like that in a (admittedly quick) googling. 2. I found a few websites for ex atheists - check out www.ex-atheist.com Now a quick disclaimer, it's the first time I checked out this site, and I found it a bit "in your face", having not browsed through it much I cannot ascribe to it's content or tone. It seems scarily a lot like more Hovindish Atheist bashing and offensive drivel, but for lack of anything better...
Here are a few names of Atheist convertees that you could look up, there seems to be quite a bit written about them online:
A.S.A Jones G.Z. Jordan Josh Mcdowell Lee Strobel
An interesting case study would be Bill O-Hare, Madelyn Murray O-Hare's son. He converted to Christianity as an adult, his mom campaigned against prayer in schools.
I am just wondering if the author has a problem with MS, MS Word, or how the package works and "feels".
OpenOffice is presented similarly, but "feels" different. Like Office 2007 does, only better.
I enjoy writing in OpenOffice more than with MS Word, but that just may be because that which you use often gets familiar, like a favourite pair of shoes...
The post I responded to said that if children get a proper and unbiased scientific education then they SHOULD abandon God. As for proof that a religion is real or not, that is not the issue here.
I simply pointed out that the reverse is often true.
I made no comment on whether they were critical thinkers or not. That is up to you to decide. I think that they were very critical thinkers.
As to your final question, I know of conversions from Christianity to other religions, and to Atheism. I never said there were none. As to a reason, I don't know. I have not spoken to anyone who has, nor do I know anyone who has permanently abandoned Christianity. In fact most of those who has moved away from Christianity has returned at some point.
I am a missionary, and have seen people accept Jesus as their Saviour often. The why is varied, and I am sure the why for not being a Christian any more differs from person to person.
Now even if your figures are correct, which I tend to doubt but lets say they are correct for the sake of argument, I see a minority group.
The US population is over 300mil. That makes the number of Atheists at most not even 10% of the US population.
As for Lewis being from Ireland, what is your point with that statement exactly?
As for your bet. Give me something better than that to work with, that is an unfounded statement until you can give me some reference and then we can work from there.
Remember, from your side it seems one way, and from my side it would seem the other way.
All these silly IP type patents flying about was sure to backfire at some stage.
Good, I hope this guy wins, and opens a venerable flood gate that forces everyone to have a good and hard look at how the whole software patent thing is administered.
Too true. Those are the ones I could come up with without waking up my son sleeping in my lap, going to the room, getting the books and coming back to said son screaming murder 'cause his nap was interrupted, and then copying down every-single-author I can come up with who have become a Christian after trying to disprove the religion...
Look at CS Lewis and Josh Mcdowell. Both atheists that converted. Mcdowell's stated goal was to prove the Christian belief a myth, and what happened? He became a believer.
Really, I welcome the in-depth study of science, and religion. Only through doing that can we come to the correct conclusion no?
Into the SCIENCE Classroom. There are religious classes as well...
Be that as it may, remember this book was not (afaik) written by religious people, but by scientists. The flip side is that it may be an attempt to bring science into the church. Should I also fight tooth and nail against that?
I think it is time that something like this has been done. I am tired of the pointless to-ing and fro-ing going on, and it is time Christians (I mention them since I am one, other religions can speak for themselves...) realise that acceptance of science (yes it is that bad sometimes) let alone the study of evolution does not mean abandoning of their faith.
Apple has Microsoft Office.Linux has OpenOffice, which integrates with MS Office at least as good as MacOffice. In fact, OpenOffice runs on Mac, Windows and Linux. Why does the author use MS Office as a justification for MacOS superiority and not MacOffice? Hmmm... Apple has Adobe Creative suite. WOnderful. Linux has Gimp, Openoffice, and tons of other stuff that can do more than Adobe Creative Suite. Apple has easy to access and easy to use tech support. So does Linux. Did this guy actually research his article? Linux has anything from Forums to Paid For support. Apple is driven by someone who has an understanding of End User Needs. So does Linux. Ever wonder why Apple and Linux "feel" so similar to use? Heck a friend demoed OS Leopard for me this very week. Very Impressive indeed. I love it, but it feels eerily familiar. And before anyone goes and jumps on the "Linux is Copying Apple" bandwagon, I bet it is a two way street.
Point taken, in that vein it is notable to point out that Neither two new Ubuntu's for the year (Feisty and Gutsy) or any of the other new Linux developments made the list... could be that Linux does not fit into PCworld's focus...
I leally love the 'Gab. I am a Christian, and here I have debated Abortion, Is Bush an Idiot?, Evolution, Heaven, Hell, Karma, Is Bush an Idiot?, Hugo Chaves, the Pope and Islam, Is Bush El Diablo?
Atheists explain why they are here, Christians actually mull over evolution in Schools, Pastafarians float by on some cloud once in a while, and spammers start discussion.
Partisan?
You bet!
Civilised?
Yes.
Fun?
Oh.
Heck.
and
HOW!
So there. Check out what goes on here, and take notes people.
Hi, I been waiting for an answer to my post under sexuality. Maybe you decided not to come to Godgab after all.
In response to your post above for now Ill just ask this:
I have given you my sources to read and critique, could you do the same?
You make some lofty claims in rebuttal to my post, but cite no sources for those assumptions.
If not, I'll assume you dont have and work on hearsay. If you do, I'll commit to going through them, and hopefully meeting you somewhere else on the formu in the future.
My points still stand untill you can prove otherwise.
The most interesting one for me is the clown fish, where the dominant one in a group will become female, and all the rest are male.
Listen Grapes, I will reply to your rather lengthy rebuttal of my argument elsewhere on this thread, I just need some time to gather arguments in my quiver.
And since you enjoy this kind of debate so much, why not check out godgab.org, methinks our debate is better suited to that forum than this one.
Slashdot Mirror
Sure, but it's still their product.
Yep. It's their business model.
Create your own, force it on your customers. Of course they would prefer that their tech become commonplace, besides, flash is mainstream on Linux too, so if they can find a way to lock Linux out by making an alternative they delay Linux growth in market share.
The way games are getting better visual wise, and tech is getting more powerful, I have a feeling we might see at least an early version of a Holodeck in our lifetimes.
Now I ALSO hope that by that time Linux will be the OS of choice for the manufacturer, I simply will not survive a BSOD in glorious Holodeck VR...
Magic 8-Ball says: Don't count on it
Has the Magic 8 ball been patented?
On a side note, I think they will try and push it for another few years, somewhere they will either run into the "is it worth the hassle" brick wall, or they will have created the only avenue of getting legitimate content by locking out those who don't embrace the technology.
I for one hope for the former...
As to your question HOW, I don't think there is one way that suit's all, if you catch my drift. I for one did not set out to disprove Christianity, but others did. I actually met a guy, and spent time with him, who is a physicist. He could not reconcile the Biblical view of the world with what he knew about physics and scientific discovery.
So he went so far as to and learn what we call "skykerskrif", uh I forget the correct english word but the word literally means "Nail Language" to read the actual original dead sea scrolls and other artefacts found that our Bible is based on.
Only after having gone that far did he satisfy himself that there is indeed a God, that it is the Judeo Christian God, and that the Biblical account of the world as we know it is accurate.
And no, he does not adhere to Young Earth Creationism, if you were wondering...
From my point of view the best place to start is with the study of the life of Jesus. Forget the other crap even Christian churches cannot agree on. And please dear lord do not - repeat not - pay any attention to anything remotely resembling Kent Hovind...
You may be interested in some of the works of Josh Mcdowell. He went out to disprove the Christian religion as based on myth and that journey ended with him converting.
He asks a very good question.
Was Jesus a "Good Moral Teacher"
Was Jesus a "Lunatic"
Was Jesus "God"
Suffice it to say, without flooding you with stuff, that Jesus could not have been a good moral teacher if he were not God, because that would have made him a LIAR. He claimed on several occasions to be God, and a moral man of sound mind would not do that and knowingly mislead thousands.
So that leaves Lunatic or Lord.
You decide.
A columb in LinuxFormat magazine last year remarked how Office 2007 created the best opportunity for OO to make a dent in the market. My wife also "converted" without incident haha, and she also uses Linux exclusively now...
Oh, don't go changing the subject now. The issue is not the number of atheists - I am perfectly aware there are several times more Christians in the United States than atheists. The issue is the number of atheists who have converted to Christianity.
I wasn't trying to change the subject, it was merely an observation. As to the issue you noted, I think an accurate gauge would be to see a percentage comparison. A mere number comparison might not be as good a gauge. As for how many Christians became Atheist, from where I am standing they are not that many. Remember though that I am Christian, and a missionary. So not only is my Job to convince people that Jesus is Lord, I do not mingle with many Atheists socially, so my view is biased - from where you stand the reverse might be true (i.e. from your viewpoint)
That 50% of your examples aren't from the U.S., and can't figure into the percentage for this country.
What country my examples are from is not the point. I am not from the US, and I had no idea where you are from, so naturally my examples where not chosen from any geographical location.
I think it's fairly easy - name more atheists who converted to Christianity. If it happens "often" as you suggest, there surely must be some articles on the subject, maybe some organizations for such individuals, guestimations on the number of converts, etc.
1. I could name and you could name and what we really would need is a peer reviewed scientific study on the subject, no? I found nothing like that in a (admittedly quick) googling.
2. I found a few websites for ex atheists - check out www.ex-atheist.com
Now a quick disclaimer, it's the first time I checked out this site, and I found it a bit "in your face", having not browsed through it much I cannot ascribe to it's content or tone. It seems scarily a lot like more Hovindish Atheist bashing and offensive drivel, but for lack of anything better...
Here are a few names of Atheist convertees that you could look up, there seems to be quite a bit written about them online:
A.S.A Jones
G.Z. Jordan
Josh Mcdowell
Lee Strobel
An interesting case study would be Bill O-Hare, Madelyn Murray O-Hare's son. He converted to Christianity as an adult, his mom campaigned against prayer in schools.
I am just wondering if the author has a problem with MS, MS Word, or how the package works and "feels".
OpenOffice is presented similarly, but "feels" different. Like Office 2007 does, only better.
I enjoy writing in OpenOffice more than with MS Word, but that just may be because that which you use often gets familiar, like a favourite pair of shoes...
With MS nothing is really free... wait for the catch...
The post I responded to said that if children get a proper and unbiased scientific education then they SHOULD abandon God. As for proof that a religion is real or not, that is not the issue here.
I simply pointed out that the reverse is often true.
I made no comment on whether they were critical thinkers or not. That is up to you to decide. I think that they were very critical thinkers.
As to your final question, I know of conversions from Christianity to other religions, and to Atheism. I never said there were none. As to a reason, I don't know. I have not spoken to anyone who has, nor do I know anyone who has permanently abandoned Christianity. In fact most of those who has moved away from Christianity has returned at some point.
I am a missionary, and have seen people accept Jesus as their Saviour often. The why is varied, and I am sure the why for not being a Christian any more differs from person to person.
Uh okay. I found this site:
http://www.adherents.com/Na/Na_44.html
Now even if your figures are correct, which I tend to doubt but lets say they are correct for the sake of argument, I see a minority group.
The US population is over 300mil. That makes the number of Atheists at most not even 10% of the US population.
As for Lewis being from Ireland, what is your point with that statement exactly?
As for your bet. Give me something better than that to work with, that is an unfounded statement until you can give me some reference and then we can work from there.
Remember, from your side it seems one way, and from my side it would seem the other way.
Byebye betamax, hello BlueRay...
But the thing is, they converted. Compelling argument or not.
Besides, Pascal's Wager might not be logically sound, it is a simple statement intended to surmise how a person could come to a conclusion.
As for the the two possibilities you gave, remember these people converted to Christianity, thus the option being limited to the Judeo-Christian God.
It all depends on which side of the fence you are viewing from methinks.
All these silly IP type patents flying about was sure to backfire at some stage.
Good, I hope this guy wins, and opens a venerable flood gate that forces everyone to have a good and hard look at how the whole software patent thing is administered.
Too true. Those are the ones I could come up with without waking up my son sleeping in my lap, going to the room, getting the books and coming back to said son screaming murder 'cause his nap was interrupted, and then copying down every-single-author I can come up with who have become a Christian after trying to disprove the religion...
Try googling it, if you don't mind...
Yes. Problem is that there are people on both sides who clamour for the opportunity to smack the opposition with the "YOU ARE WRONG!" plank.
Sheesh if Christians where a little more tolerant and Atheists a little less snooty everything would be much more fun.
Exactly.
;) and really enjoying indepth discussions with my Atheist buddies on godgab.org...
Besides, the world would be pretty boring without them Atheist hunts. Just last week we cornered one back by the creek on old Joe's property...
IAC2
It should. But the reverse is often true.
Look at CS Lewis and Josh Mcdowell. Both atheists that converted. Mcdowell's stated goal was to prove the Christian belief a myth, and what happened? He became a believer.
Really, I welcome the in-depth study of science, and religion. Only through doing that can we come to the correct conclusion no?
Into the SCIENCE Classroom. There are religious classes as well...
Be that as it may, remember this book was not (afaik) written by religious people, but by scientists. The flip side is that it may be an attempt to bring science into the church. Should I also fight tooth and nail against that?
I think it is time that something like this has been done. I am tired of the pointless to-ing and fro-ing going on, and it is time Christians (I mention them since I am one, other religions can speak for themselves...) realise that acceptance of science (yes it is that bad sometimes) let alone the study of evolution does not mean abandoning of their faith.
Stop the FUD.
Taking aim like this at the GPL smacks of seeking to discredit it in the public/industry's eyes. Any licence agreement has inherent dangers.
This article is typical Apple Fanboi stuff.
Apple has Microsoft Office.Linux has OpenOffice, which integrates with MS Office at least as good as MacOffice. In fact, OpenOffice runs on Mac, Windows and Linux. Why does the author use MS Office as a justification for MacOS superiority and not MacOffice? Hmmm...
Apple has Adobe Creative suite. WOnderful. Linux has Gimp, Openoffice, and tons of other stuff that can do more than Adobe Creative Suite.
Apple has easy to access and easy to use tech support. So does Linux. Did this guy actually research his article? Linux has anything from Forums to Paid For support.
Apple is driven by someone who has an understanding of End User Needs. So does Linux. Ever wonder why Apple and Linux "feel" so similar to use? Heck a friend demoed OS Leopard for me this very week. Very Impressive indeed. I love it, but it feels eerily familiar. And before anyone goes and jumps on the "Linux is Copying Apple" bandwagon, I bet it is a two way street.
And then there is always the following:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Ubuntu+Linux%2C+MacOs&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0Ubuntu/Mac searches
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Ubuntu+Gutsy%2C+OS+Leopard%2C+Ubuntu+Feisty%2C+OS+Tiger%2C+Ubuntu+Linux&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0Feisty/Tiger/Gutsy/Leopard/Linux Searches
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Ubuntu+Gutsy%2C+OS+Leopard%2C+Ubuntu+Feisty%2C+OS+Tiger&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0Gutsy/Leopard/Feisty/Tiger Searches
So what is the issue here, exactly? I wonder what marketing speak such as this really gains when it is so full of holes...
Point taken, in that vein it is notable to point out that Neither two new Ubuntu's for the year (Feisty and Gutsy) or any of the other new Linux developments made the list... could be that Linux does not fit into PCworld's focus...
GodGab
Arr
Oh
See
Kay
Ess!!!
Question Reason Enjoy.
I leally love the 'Gab. I am a Christian, and here I have debated Abortion, Is Bush an Idiot?, Evolution, Heaven, Hell, Karma, Is Bush an Idiot?, Hugo Chaves, the Pope and Islam, Is Bush El Diablo?
Atheists explain why they are here, Christians actually mull over evolution in Schools, Pastafarians float by on some cloud once in a while, and spammers start discussion.
Partisan?
You bet!
Civilised?
Yes.
Fun?
Oh.
Heck.
and
HOW!
So there. Check out what goes on here, and take notes people.
GodGab is breaking new frontiers.
(Yes, we discuss star trek futures as well.)
Hi, I been waiting for an answer to my post under sexuality. Maybe you decided not to come to Godgab after all.
In response to your post above for now Ill just ask this:
I have given you my sources to read and critique, could you do the same?
You make some lofty claims in rebuttal to my post, but cite no sources for those assumptions.
If not, I'll assume you dont have and work on hearsay. If you do, I'll commit to going through them, and hopefully meeting you somewhere else on the formu in the future.
My points still stand untill you can prove otherwise.
Kindly
Me
True.
The most interesting one for me is the clown fish, where the dominant one in a group will become female, and all the rest are male.
Listen Grapes, I will reply to your rather lengthy rebuttal of my argument elsewhere on this thread, I just need some time to gather arguments in my quiver.
And since you enjoy this kind of debate so much, why not check out godgab.org, methinks our debate is better suited to that forum than this one.
Regards.