If you've read Hume, you'd know there's no logical support for anything, which means that your hope the government could base ethical decisions on the certain and fixed set of criteria you desire is ridiculous. However, there is reasonable support for the existence of the soul, and a trip from Plato through Plotinus would do you good.
Reading this was like reading a grocery list from Alpha Centauri. It has nothing to do with anything. Hume, Plato and Plotinus don't butter any biscuits in these, our modern times. If any of them had any actual answers instead of clever wordplay and redefinitions, we'd have had this whole ethical mess worked out long ago. Sadly, philosophy can't do that, because it's simply people talking. Anything of value in philosophy has been folded into mathematics or other hard sciences a long time ago.
Because if we disallow beer, video games, and R rated movies, all children will make good decisions, right? Just like they did in the days before any of those things existed.
No, the items in question are bad decisions. Since I can't monitor my children 24 hours a day, nor have parents ever bore the responsibility of that sort of thing, I simply ask that society enforce some sort of baseline "not appropriate for children" guidelines, which I don't view as particularly demanding.
I'll ask you again: just what about enforcing ratings strikes you as such an immense burden on society?
You'll have to forgive me if I don't believe that.
First, show me how access to violent videogames produces "roaming gangs of uncontrollable children"
They don't, obviously. What does is a society that is unwilling to provide some sort of reasonable environment in which kids can grow safely.
In the second place, even if your thesis is correct, you are admitting that you are incapable of instilling morals and ethics into your children
I am admitting no such thing. What I am admitting, however, is that I am incapable of raising a child who always makes good decisions, which is exactly why we don't let minors buy beer or watch R rated movies. And yes, I view violent videogames as harmful for small children the same way I view violent movies as harmful, and would therefore appreciate some help from society at large with helping to keep my children from making obviously bad choices.
Furthermore, this law won't prevent other bad parents from purchasing the games for their children, thereby leading them to "roaming uncontrollably".
You can't pass a law to make bad parents good parents. You can pass laws to help good parents be good parents.
Don't burden society with it.
That's interesting. Exactly what 'burden' does enforcing a rating system place on society?
We're past the exception and we're in the "chain reaction"
I guess that's your assertion, but I can't really say as I agree with it. Like I said earlier, we do the same thing with booze, porn and movies with gore in them. I don't see why doing the same with games will lead to the end of civilization as we know it.
I love how everything comes down to "be a better parent," especially from people who are obviously childless.
And I told you that your authority as a parent is going to be injured anyway.
With that attitude, yes, it will be.
It is a small concession to the people raising the generation that will shelter you through your old age to ask that stores not sell adult-themed objects to minors. We do it with booze, porn, smokes and movies. I don't see why games should be be any different. You'd think more people would want to help me raise a good kid, especially when it costs them nothing. I can't watch him 24 hours a day, and he's not being raised in a vaccuum. You want more roaming gangs of uncontrollable children in the future? Continue advocating a society that clearly doesn't care about them or their well-being, where the easy availability of adult-themed content trumps any kind of reasonable attempt to provide a safe environment for children.
And I told you that it injures my authority as a parent, but you chose to ignore that with the great "get over it" line of reasoning.
Is the answer to petition Congress to forbid Wal-Mart from selling paint to minors?
In most major cities I've been in it's illegal for minors to buy more than N cans of spraypaint, or to have a permanant marker of more than X width on their person while riding public transportation. Does that offend you in some way or strike you as wrong? I invite you to get over it.
Simply because you can cirvumvent a law does not mean we should not have a law. For instance, lots of people I know cheat on their taxes. Should we simply not have laws against tax fraud?
the issue is not whether children should be allowed to play certain video games, that's up to the parents. The issue is whether stores should be allowed to sell them to children directly, as opposed to selling them only to the parents.
So to answer your question, the victim when a child plays a violent video game is the parents because their parental authority is usurped. Replace 'video game' with 'beer' or 'porn,' it's the same argument. Some things I just don't want my kids exposed to, and I don't think it's onerous in any way to ask game shops to not sell a copy of Blood Drinking Hell Monkeys to my 9 year old on his way home from school.
R rated movies have a smaller target audience, and thus become less profitable to make. Therefore, the numbere of R rated movies decreases. It still ends up being censorship.
The right of Free Speech does not imply the right to Make A Tidy Profit.
I'm the only person on this Earth who gets to decide what sort of video games my kids can and cannot play.
Right. And ratings are designed to help you with this, so your kid can't sneak off and buy Blood Drinking Hell Guys 4 without your knowledge and play it at his friends house. What's that? You want him to play Rabbit Slaughter 5000? Then go buy him a copy. Did I really need to explain this?
And I don't see it as a very big step between legislating who can and cannot *buy* a video game to who can and cannot *play* a video game.
Oh please. It's a huge difference, enough with the slippery slopes.
This sort of thing is exactly why class action lawsuits exist. Find a lawyer, start one. Companies will do whatever is most cost-effective, so you simply need to make losing your private data expensive.
exactly. I was going to mention the iMac, but I didn't want to drag in the Apple drama.
The only thing missing is a decent way to carry it - it needs a cover that folds over the screen and some kind of rubber bumpers or some goddamn thing on it to make it at least vaguely durable while in transit.
Your #1 site for quality editorial work!
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writting!
in other news, sarcasm is the lowest form of humor.
but I'm realizing that there's a lot of people don't really need a lot of the features of their laptops - they're not moved often, they don't ever use them without plugging them in - but they do want some kind of portability and the tidiness (no mouse, keyboard or video cables, just one power thing).
Seems to me an updated version of those fold-up-into-a-briefcase computers would do well, especially if they were easy to upgrade, but then what do I know?
Slashdot Mirror
just for completeness: http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/index-en.html Explore all your internets from loonix. Works pretty well, except tooltips show up as fully-decorated windows.
Me too. Pen navigation is great, y'all should try it sometime. The only time I reach for a mouse is when I'm playing games.
Reading this was like reading a grocery list from Alpha Centauri. It has nothing to do with anything. Hume, Plato and Plotinus don't butter any biscuits in these, our modern times. If any of them had any actual answers instead of clever wordplay and redefinitions, we'd have had this whole ethical mess worked out long ago. Sadly, philosophy can't do that, because it's simply people talking. Anything of value in philosophy has been folded into mathematics or other hard sciences a long time ago.
So would you say it should be legal for me to sell a six pack of lowenbrau and a copy of Barely Legal to an eight year old?
No, the items in question are bad decisions. Since I can't monitor my children 24 hours a day, nor have parents ever bore the responsibility of that sort of thing, I simply ask that society enforce some sort of baseline "not appropriate for children" guidelines, which I don't view as particularly demanding.
I'll ask you again: just what about enforcing ratings strikes you as such an immense burden on society?
Oh, hey, don't get me wrong. The law in question was shit. I'm just in favor of ratings enforcement through the current ratings system.
You'll have to forgive me if I don't believe that.
They don't, obviously. What does is a society that is unwilling to provide some sort of reasonable environment in which kids can grow safely.
I am admitting no such thing. What I am admitting, however, is that I am incapable of raising a child who always makes good decisions, which is exactly why we don't let minors buy beer or watch R rated movies. And yes, I view violent videogames as harmful for small children the same way I view violent movies as harmful, and would therefore appreciate some help from society at large with helping to keep my children from making obviously bad choices.You can't pass a law to make bad parents good parents. You can pass laws to help good parents be good parents.
That's interesting. Exactly what 'burden' does enforcing a rating system place on society?
I guess that's your assertion, but I can't really say as I agree with it. Like I said earlier, we do the same thing with booze, porn and movies with gore in them. I don't see why doing the same with games will lead to the end of civilization as we know it.
With that attitude, yes, it will be.
It is a small concession to the people raising the generation that will shelter you through your old age to ask that stores not sell adult-themed objects to minors. We do it with booze, porn, smokes and movies. I don't see why games should be be any different. You'd think more people would want to help me raise a good kid, especially when it costs them nothing. I can't watch him 24 hours a day, and he's not being raised in a vaccuum. You want more roaming gangs of uncontrollable children in the future? Continue advocating a society that clearly doesn't care about them or their well-being, where the easy availability of adult-themed content trumps any kind of reasonable attempt to provide a safe environment for children.
And I told you that it injures my authority as a parent, but you chose to ignore that with the great "get over it" line of reasoning.
In most major cities I've been in it's illegal for minors to buy more than N cans of spraypaint, or to have a permanant marker of more than X width on their person while riding public transportation. Does that offend you in some way or strike you as wrong? I invite you to get over it.
I'll just refer you to my first response:
5 77187
GOTO http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189079&cid=15
Simply because you can cirvumvent a law does not mean we should not have a law. For instance, lots of people I know cheat on their taxes. Should we simply not have laws against tax fraud?
the issue is not whether children should be allowed to play certain video games, that's up to the parents. The issue is whether stores should be allowed to sell them to children directly, as opposed to selling them only to the parents.
So to answer your question, the victim when a child plays a violent video game is the parents because their parental authority is usurped. Replace 'video game' with 'beer' or 'porn,' it's the same argument. Some things I just don't want my kids exposed to, and I don't think it's onerous in any way to ask game shops to not sell a copy of Blood Drinking Hell Monkeys to my 9 year old on his way home from school.
Hey, good call. Since there exist ways to circumvent laws, we should just not have laws at all! I like your style.
The right of Free Speech does not imply the right to Make A Tidy Profit.
Right. And ratings are designed to help you with this, so your kid can't sneak off and buy Blood Drinking Hell Guys 4 without your knowledge and play it at his friends house. What's that? You want him to play Rabbit Slaughter 5000? Then go buy him a copy. Did I really need to explain this?
Oh please. It's a huge difference, enough with the slippery slopes.
and the circle is complete. :)
I was just making the obligatory "omg english food sux" joke, no offense intended.
no, it would just be wetter.
You must be english, because only an englishman would think you get a juicier steak if you boil it. ;)
It's a little weird to me that the hardware mods that seem to get the most attention are basically plumbing.
This sort of thing is exactly why class action lawsuits exist. Find a lawyer, start one. Companies will do whatever is most cost-effective, so you simply need to make losing your private data expensive.
I'm pretty sure Cliff's first language is English.
exactly. I was going to mention the iMac, but I didn't want to drag in the Apple drama.
The only thing missing is a decent way to carry it - it needs a cover that folds over the screen and some kind of rubber bumpers or some goddamn thing on it to make it at least vaguely durable while in transit.
writting!
in other news, sarcasm is the lowest form of humor.
but I'm realizing that there's a lot of people don't really need a lot of the features of their laptops - they're not moved often, they don't ever use them without plugging them in - but they do want some kind of portability and the tidiness (no mouse, keyboard or video cables, just one power thing). Seems to me an updated version of those fold-up-into-a-briefcase computers would do well, especially if they were easy to upgrade, but then what do I know?