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BumpTop, Pushing the Desktop Metaphor
Alranor writes "BumpTop is a new way of manipulating your GUI desktop with a graphics pen. Documents can be moved and piled (among other actions) as if they were real pieces of paper on a physical desktop. Simulated real physical interactions, such as documents pushing others out of the way as you move them around, are intended to increase the intuitiveness of the layout tool. Given the messiness of my desks at work and home, I'm not so sure this will work for me, but it's an interesting idea."
There's a neat video demo linked from the site (and a "hip-hop overview") if you want to see BumpTop in action; unfortunately for Linux users, BumpTop seems to be Windows-only. As reader idangazit describes it, this is "not just another "me-too" alternative UI; a lot of effort and polish has been put into the (pen-based) interaction, resulting in a very natural way of interacting with collections of information. Less sci-fi than Minority Report, but far more likely to hit a desktop near you in the next few years."
Update: 06/22 16:55 GMT by T : As zdzichu reader points out in the comments below, a visually similar project called lowfat, with an equally impressive video demo, is being developed — with enough sponsorship, lowfat will go open source.
Update: 06/22 16:55 GMT by T : As zdzichu reader points out in the comments below, a visually similar project called lowfat, with an equally impressive video demo, is being developed — with enough sponsorship, lowfat will go open source.
It does look very cool, but I can't help thinking if it would actually be practical or usable.
:)
Features such as the LassoMenu look awesome, but in all honesty, I can't see how I could apply it enough to be proactive.
Of course, developement of such technologies is always a good thing, and its good eye-candy if only that
ilovegeorgebush
...are not unfortunate since they don't need no real world metaphors.
Fleur de Sel
The whole point of having a computer is to free yourself from paper. So why would you take a step back and try to digitally emulate a system that is antiquated? A computer offers endless opportunities for organizing and storing data, I see this as a step back.
http://religiousfreaks.com/Documents can be moved and piled (among other actions) as if they were real pieces of paper on a physical desktop.
Can you still get papercuts?
...you'll spend all your time playing with the physics engine, and none of it doing any actual work.
What's next? Ageia PhysX cards for office PCs for 1000000 simple document collisions per frame?
I would LOVE to use this system for dealing with photographs or other documents that are easily recognizeable at a glance, but beyond that I don't see any use for it other than 'fun'.
I watched that video and the entire time I thought 'useless' until they showed the photos. There was also once a video of someone using multiple fingers to manipulate photographs, and I thought this would be useful as well. Neither of these systems can do much for me otherwise, though.
As for being Windows-only... I think that shows how short-sited these people are. Linux users are quite a bit more likely to embrace change than Windows users. But, maybe that's to our advantage. We can now design and implement a MUCH better and more useable system that was intelligently designed (I couldn't resist) instead of just what someone thought was cool.
If I had much free time, I would be working on it myself.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Seriously, I want my computer to be *better* organized than my desk, not worse.
It looks really cool, but not very useful...
I think I'm sticking to folders in a tree view for now. When working with a few houndred files at the same time, it's not like this thing makes it easier to find anything.
I just tried the Lasso'n'Cross on my real desk and it just made a bigger mess.
I initially read that as "bumtop" and thought "that's a weird place to put your computer."
Appropriate if you're in a situation where you have to pull numbers out of your ass, though.
The age of email and similar IT based office communication lacks some of the real world 'feel' to it. Sometimes when an email annoys me, and I've dealt with the query I will print out said email, screw it up into a ball and hurl it into the bin while saying an expletive. Then delete the email from the system.
It just wouldn't be the same if it was ALL technology. I like to touch things with my hands. I like getting a pile of documents in my hands and banging the sides so they all align. I like dumping a big pile of papers onto someone I don't like's desk. Ink stains on a white shirt, I could do without though.
I wish I could make my phyical desktop and indeed my whole flat more like my windows desktop.
"They're coming around when?!"
*select all -> drag into single folder*
Hah! Watching the video I noticed that at around 6.05min they pick a window to screw up and discard. And the window of choice? It's clearly displaying slashdot!
News for nerds. Stuff that crumples.
---
Accommodation for students
It is very nice, but adapting real-world metaphors to such a degree makes very little sense. What most forget is that real-world metaphors are not optimal. For example, a pile of paper is not optimal because it is hard to search something in it. Using computers, I can access a text file nearly instantly, so why should I want a delay because of the metaphors? IMO the last really useful UI invention was the desktop search, because it satisfies most user's needs: a) fast access, b) easy search, c) instantly accessible.
Of course, this is a research project, and some of its results may find their way into mainstream UIs. For example, I could think of a variation of the lasso menu. Draw a lasso using the mouse over a couple of files, then pull up, and a directory is created with all marked files in it.
This sig does not contain any SCO code.
Where are the cardboard boxes you can throw the stacks in after they've sat on your desk for two years?
c) is kinda redundant... :)
This sig does not contain any SCO code.
If I don't pay close attention my real desktop becomes a mess within seconds. Why would I want my computer to be the same?
I want the computer to organize my stuff for me - not replecating the awful mess the real world is.
(That's one of the reasons I use wmii)
I spend way to much time trying to overcome the flood of paper and other junk in the real world cluttering up my desk and surrounding flat surfaces. Why would I want that on my computer? What's needed are better more efficient ways of finding stuff even though you barely remember what it was or what it looked like. Maybe a compulsive organization freak could deal with this system, but for ordinary people it'll probably just reduce their computer desktop to even worse disorganized chaos than their real desk.
To understand the power of a simpler human-computer interface one can see as an example the Nintendo DS. I have handed the gadget to people that never in their lives have use one or a computer for that matter (brain-age game). And by using the stylus and the touch-screen they get to play with it almost immediately.
The mouse needs to be replaced by a touch screen with a stylus.
- these are not the droids you are looking for -
what about to manipulate the thinks with the two hands
Whats up with that guys bling bling. And the girl in the photo gave me the creeps...
The best test environment is production. - Me
chrome://browser/content/browser.xul
They'd better watch out for Apple's patents.
I would have had first post if I hadn't had to push all the papers off of my keyboard with my pen.
This reminds me of something I saw on the UbuntuForum.
It was a simple start of an Linux app in wich you could manipulate photo's very much like this app.
Found it! => Lowfat
This is a fascinating concept, and it looks like it could be very useful, especially when using pen-based input. But in looking at other posts here, it seems that others are failing to see the bigger picture. Don't look at this as the end product, but look at as an add-on to curent GUI technology, or a component within a more sophistocated GUI. Coupled with other existing UI features, this could prove to be a powerful addition that would make pen-based interaction much more useful. No, it's not an answer in and of itself, but looks like a promising tool to enhance the pen-based GUI concept.
The problem with these kinds of technology demos is that many people view them as an end product, and then write them off without considering how they might fit into a larger environment. Besides, isn't part of the usefulness of computers to be able to perform tasks virtually that could not otherwise be done in the physical world? If such function is provided in an intuitive way, then it makes computing more seamless and useful.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
...or your documents will fly off your desktop
This is definitely one for the people who brought you the polka dot iMac.
It should be pastel colored, and have a speaker in the base to play suitable noises to the fetus while mother to be works from home.
Pining for the fjords
Pretty nifty demo. It looked cool. But - I'm afraid time has passed for organising stuff like that. Remember the olden days when you placed all your documents and emails in folders. Now a days you just file everything away and use a search engine (desktop search in this example) to locate the document needed.
Honestly, most of the software managers/bosses I have worked for can't think abstractly. They need to SEE prototypes, need to USE test software, or at least see pictures and text about how its supposed to work. Start describing software to them without visual aids and their eyes just gloss over.
Same goes for when managers start using a computer, I mean, the O.N./O.F.F. switch escapes them sometimes, and higher level concepts such as organizing files in folders is just too far beyond their capabilities.
So, an OS desktop that lets you see all your files and folders looking like pieces of paper and folders (I bet they even have email looking like envelopes too!) on a desktop that allows you to pile them up and look like stacks of paper and folders and envelops, what a concept!!!!
I guess ICONS that look like paper and folders that you can place anywhere on your desktop isn't good enough. It requires too much thought to associate an icon with a file or a folder. A picture of a piece of paper on a square is too hard to rationalize as being a document.
This is a revolutionary GUI concept and I can't wait for OS X or Windows to implement this idea as using computers today, with those pesky abstract icons, is just too darn hard, at least for managers.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
I really like BumpTop but others might not. Evidently what we really need is a universal file management etc API so that third parties can write interfaces which are independent of the underlying platform. I can then write a Finder replacement for OS X which will also run on Linux or Vista, and developers can market interfaces as they do any other app.
The interface is just another app. Once we get that, we'll be rockin'.
I'm not wrong. You haven't thought about it hard enough.
Bob by any other name is still Bob.
So here's the deal: an ideal inferface will basically have a structure (i.e.: a logical framework of relationships) closely resembling the real world, but will operate at a speed unhindered by real-world mechanics like intertia, momentum, and spatial constraints. The existing folder+desktop system has been a natural, maybe even unconcscious, evolution towards precisely such a model.
Personally, I think as long as we're missing a dimension - if we're in 2D instead of 3D - then we're not going to have a completely intuitive interface. The problem, though, is that true 3D still isn't really available. We just have 2D emulation of 3D on computer monitors.
So these kinds of fancy 3D interfaces that have physics engines, collision detection, and all that stuff are sort of wasted in my mind until we have a really immersive 3D display system. I feel exactly the same way about FPS games. I'm a gamer, but I'm crushed that VR never took off. There's just no true feeling of immersion if you're stuck staring at your zillion-polygon virtual world through a tiny 19" porthole.
A-Bomb
The first thing that popped into my head while watching this was that it could make even ten-thumbed fumblers like me into class-act poker dealers. That has obvious gaming connotations, but realy this would be a very nice interface for games where you're manipulating simulatioons of real-world object or resources. RTS games user interfaces are all about multiply-selecting different categories of objects and issuing commands, and the gestures displayed here would be ideal for that kind of game. I wonder if the Nintendo DS, with it's pen input, would be up to an interface like this? Probably not, as it's not realy designed for physics.
It's a very cool demo, but if you were going to avoid doing the really hard work of coming up with a new way to look at how to organize our computer workspaces, why wouldn't you at least settle for a bookshelf metaphor instead of a desktop... again? I mean, wouldn't that be a better match for the use than just a desktop? My desk doesn't have anything on it but my phone and computer. My bookshelf, however, has all of the references, software, and even pictures. The only folks I know that really do have stuff on their physical desktop are mostly untidy and need some help with organization anyways.
Apple worked on things like piles in the early '90s.
I understand the whole real-world-metaphor drawback. I think that we're missing the point - that this is an excellent transitional tool to a paperless work area.
Part of what we all are failing to consider here is that we need desktop managers because the desktops on our copmputers are comparatively small to the desktops we actually work at in the real world, due to screen resolution restrictions vs. our ability to see things that are small. Face it. We are taking a 48" x 30-36" desk and trying to compress it onto a 17", 19", 21", 30" monitor IN MOST CASES. I know that most of us as geeks probably have two or three monitors on our desks, but if you compare that screen space relative to your real desk, it's like trying to run your office life off an end-table in your living room.
The problem isn't that computers can't replace paper, the problem is that we don't have the number of pixels for the average user to make that proposition appetizing to the average user. Everything we can do to improve that situation makes the dream of going paperless more reachable.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
to highly productive /. browsing and posting.
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
You could make a ripping motion to delete a document, or a throwing-it-across-the-room motion to turn off the computer.
With just a little bit more work put into how we interact with this interface, we could make the computer so much like working on a real desktop that no one would ever want to spend more that a few minutes there at a time.
It would be a revolution in efficiency reduction.
Take it to the limit, everybody to the limit, come on, everybody fhqwhgads.
This brings to mind "memory palaces". I initially dismissed this as a gimmick but your post makes me think perhaps it would be a great way to improve your memory of all the information you have.
Where are the file names?
... but how do we identify the information by concise text label? And once captions are turned on, what does that do to the visual clutter and usefulness of the environment?
The interactions of this system seem compelling, but the icons tell us very little information about what the file actually is. Sure, we can rifle through a stack of icons
While it was great to watch the different interactions possible with this system, use in a file system seems less than ideal. As a photo organization system (and other apps with limited scope) there's a lot of promise.
Tablet PC's. It is a very cool demo and I'm sure that MSFT will be calling on these guys.
Something like this would be GREAT in a Photo management suite. As the demonstration was playing, I couldn't see myself using this on my desktop, but started falling in love with the idea of using it in to organise my documents -- especially all of my pictures.
Why would you WANT documents pushing each other out of the way? That just means that, if I have something exactly where I want it, and I happen to want to move something in a direct path blocked by the other document, that means I either have to move AROUND the second document, or push it out of the way, and then go back and move it again. This is simply one of many such problems with a "phsycial" interface.
And then of course, you have to deal with the extra processing costs inherent in such a desktop. It may look pretty, but behind it you have to have the CPU doing plenty of physics calculations, the GPU doing rendering, anti-alwhich could slow down a slow system with a cluttered desktop.
My biggest gripe with this, however, is the fact that the icons all look the same. I don't want to have to memorize the placement of documents on my desktop (even though I often do so through simple habit, anyway), and these icons barely indictate file type, much less name, which I find to be a huge handicap. Without file names on the desktop, things get confusing rather quickly.
A final gripe I have is that, if we must use a pen-type device, does that mean we're switching from a pen to a mouse whenever we want to use an application that's incompatable/inconvenient when using this software?
The technology is interesting, but I doubt its practical use.
http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
didn't someone (apple?) demo somthing like this a couple of months ago, only instead of using a pen they had a big touch screen (laying flat not vertical minority report stylee). i remember the demo showed someone moving and resizing pictures by 'grabbing' the sides/corners and just moving them.
if i had a better memory, i'd be able to give more information...
that obnoxious paperclip that comes with M$ Office would come in handy one day.
Al
Wow... now we can use even more clippys to help us while we work. Imagine, Clippy everywhere, mostly in Explorer!
Its a nifty demo, but sadly that type of interface is like 95% pure toying around, it doesn't make navitagion easier, it doesn't give you a better overview, it doesn't even try to provide a fulltext search, instead you can now move the same unintuitive icons around with physics engine... yeah, great... The first thing I would expect from any 'new' kind of interface is that makes icons go away, completly, and while at it, throw the applications out of the windows as well. I mean where is the use in having a dozen equally looking pdf icons? Why don't do the really intuitive thing instead and present the document itself instead of an icon to abstract it? The demo also shows that shortly, however it isn't able to handle that well, since there seems to be a completle lack of zooming, thus you only get very few documents visible on screen, which really isn't so much better of what we have today. Now simply adding zoom on the other side wouldn't be enough either, since you don't only want to zoom into a thumbnail, but you want to zoom into the document itself, so you don't get to launch an app, but instead just zoom into the document since it is large enough to read it. Now this has some problems itself, like where do you pack the menu and toolbars or how to handle multiple documents at once or how to actually zoom (press a button or use mousewheel or some completly new control device (Wiimote)?), but the demo doesn't even try to solve those problems, instead we simply get old icons rendered in 3d with physics engine, which is nifty to look at for a minute, but doesn't really help much at all.
To those interesting in new interface ideas I recomment to read The Humane Interface by Jef Raskins, who really does propose a new style of interface that is both a lot more intuitive then what we have today as well as a lot more efficient, instead of just adding bell and whistles like most other 'new' interfaces do.
Fortunately for Linux (and other freenixes) users, an alternative is beeing developed since February.
:wq
Can I push stuff off into a pile behind the desktop, like my real desk?
sic transit gloria mundi
tm
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
The problem with piles on my desk is that it makes it difficult to locate a particular thing I'm looking for. Seems like this approach would have the same problem. Yeah, it let's you shuffle things around with a pen, but other than the novelty of having neat or messy piles, how does it help? You'd just spend a bunch of time "shuffling", like on a real-life desktop.
Great. I wonder if I can transfer the real world desk clutter to my bumptop e.g. all my virtual foam stress animals and of course my Sigmund Freud "action figure" (with cigar).
Get your tagline off my lawn.
I actually couldn't finish watching this video because of the way he pronounced "Lasso". Its lasso, not lassu. Now I have a headache.
Havent we abused the desktop metaphor long enough? I dont think anyone thinks of the computer as an actual desktop, and I'm highly suspect that making a computer closer resemble a desktop will not aid anyone.
Its time to start inventing new metaphors.
-LM
With the thousands if not millions of documents on modern computers search is the ONLY way to go forward for the future. Spotlight on the Mac comes close to getting this right allowing for easy gui based search of both file titles and search through text of documents including e-mail. While it's default of searching music and fonts is questionable that is easily disables, overall it's pretty good. Ditto for Beagle on Linux, and what google desktop on Windoze?
Meanwhile imagine google as a giant messy pile of papers, hmmm...
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
dumping a big pile of papers onto someone I don't like's desk
Just push your virtual desktop onto someone else's PC while he is momentarily distracted, and your work suddenly winds up in his ToDo list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_(movie)
Was anyone else not COMPLETELY annoyed by the pronounciation of "lasso" by the narrator??
I don't care if the dictionary says it can be pronounced that way. Clearly, this is a Canadian conspiracy!
Whenever there's a subpoena or an investigation or an audit of some kind, the requestor wants your documents in hardcopy. If you present the information to them digitally, it had better damn well be in a format that can be printed out. I imagine this has something to do with the fact that they want a static, unchangeable document, not one that could even be suspect to having been modified.
Can you modify paper records? Sure. Can you prevent digital records from being changed (or at least provide for a trail of evidence to show that they had been changed and when)? Sure. Do auditors and lawyers and gov't officials understand any of that? Nope. So paper it is.
Maybe - just maybe - providing an interface to digital information that more closely resembles the paper they're used to dealing with will help to drag them into the digital age. But probably not.
Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
This is slightly off-topic, but I think (less physical) 3D desktop management can be a lot better. Take Project Looking Glass for example. Did you ever wonder whose ideas MS stole with the Vista Aero thing?
https://lg3d.dev.java.net/
Now you know.
oh boy! anouther cool idea for stardock to buy and mess up!
This would probably lend itself better to tablet PCs and touch screen/kiosk systems where you are actually touching the objects on the screen, instead of the cursor/input device method, where you use the relative position of a device to manipulate items on a screen. While it works ok for the time being, the cursor/input device method is not very intuitive and is actually pretty awkward when it comes to making changes on impulse.
If we could actually interact with our computers like we do with real world objects, we'd be able to get more work done in less time, with far less effort. You wouldn't have to think about how you're going to do something before you actually do it.
8==8 Bones 8==8
As awesome as that is, from a visual standpoint I can't help but think it's nothing more than a gimmick. One of the big reasons I see for GUIs and other computer interfaces is specifically to avoid the clutter a user gets from a physical desktop. Users manage to make a huge mess of desktops even today, now imagine building a mess in 3D.
I can't identify any individual icon. All I see in that demo are piles of nameless PDFs. So I can group them into a neat stack, how has that helped productivity? The next time I need to access one of those files I'm going to have to tear down that tower to find the file I want. It's not like anyone spends nearly that much time on the desktop anyway.
There's a reason some people still use a command prompt. A keyboard is still more efficient than a mouse. I have an application running on my Mac at work called Quicksilver. I hit the appropriate F-key, and up comes a window with a with a prompt. I start typing the name of the application I want, hit enter and that applications opens right up. It's quicker than any alternative I've used this far.
If you're going to exploit 3D at least do something truly innovative. Don't confine yourselfs to the limitations of existing interfaces. I don't want to go on a voyage when I browse through my files. I want something that responds instantaneous, organizes things logically, and is intuitive. If it works better in 2D then make it 2D.
These guys need to stop thinking of the GUI like a game. And they need to get past the traditional layout. It seems like everyone working with 3D is obsessed with mimicing real life. Eye candy is great, but there's already too much of it out there. I want something that works.
Yes, I always arrange documents on my real desk by dragging them around with my pen. It's the most intuitive way.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
"This system does not work with the pile, as scanning a directory with 1000 files is not reasonable."
It is if you extract semantic information before inserting it into the file system.
As for experimentation, I'm using various tools (free and otherwise) to try out various UI* concepts.
*Note I didn't use a "G". The handicapped like to use computers too.
Didn't Apple talk about using piles in their OS, but never implemented it?
d e_apples_piles/ Apparently they did, AND they own the patent on it as well according to that article.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/04/23/deep_insi
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
While I acnowledge that this kind of a desktop environment would be of little use to most of us, I can see this working out very well as a tool for designers/artists. They are already used to using pens, and this kind of spatial/visual organization would come intuitively to them. Bundling a work environment like this along with Adobe's Creative Suite for example would probably be a big success. That's assuming they release a Mac-compatible version of course, when was the last time you saw a graphic designer using a dell?
They seemed to indicate that the touch sensing device was in the pen, not a specially treated screen. If that thing is pressure sensitive, are we looking at a WACOM killer?
Seems the author did some other research involving moving things around before this publication:
http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~anand/581site/ass1/ watch.html
/<en
Should I be concerned about the "exploding piles" feature?
A more prosaic, but more generally useful feature that would be relatively straightforward for X11 WMs to implement would be sub-windows that let you group and then rigidly translate on the desktop, as well as scroll within the sub-window, a set of other client windows, typically from different client applications.
Isn't that going to make it hard to type?
Would you like to hear a song?
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
meaning to "cracking files"...
Imagine that shitty bob clippy appearing holographically, the user frustrated, and the user commencing to pound the shit out of the desk... Crzggggtttt... Suddenly, you work IS all that it is cracked up to be...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
But when do they impliment the virtual maid to clean this mess up?
At about 6:20 in the demo, he illustrates a file management method he calls the "exploding piles technique." Yecch. No thanks.
Nice demo though.
I'll assume that you've successfully programmed a computer before, but have you ever been able to teach a manager something useful?
Ah, but managers already do have a grasp of some fairly advanced abstract concepts. Consider, for instance, the clear conception that my manager has of the infinite expanse of free time that I have, or the vanishingly small effort that it would take me to implement his detailed and well-thought-out schemes.
Mind the Gap
BumpTop needs a virtual staircase, so I can watch one of my larger piles slither down like a slinky.
Coderz 4 Life