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Blurring the Line Between Laptops and Desktops

bart_scriv writes "BusinessWeek looks at the latest offerings in ultra-portable PCs, offering up some specs and pictures. Some of the highlinghts: removeable 19-20 inch LCD dispays, dual NVIDIA cards and customizable exteriors. On the downside, some of these machines weigh almost 20 pounds and all of them sport a pretty high price tag — they probably won't be replacing desktops or laptops anytime soon."

176 comments

  1. weigh 20 punds? by ScottLindner · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's not a portable! My laptop is heavy at 8lbs and it sucks to carry around with all of the gadgets and gizmos. Heck... even my SFF is lighter than 20 pounds. I love the concept but the weight has to improve big time.

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    1. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Cleon · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oy, you kids. When I was young, in the heady days of 8088 processors, the laptops weighed ten pounds at LEAST. And we were THANKFUL!

      --
      Gifts for Geeks - Stuff that really matters!
    2. Re:weigh 20 punds? by stratjakt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're a wimp!

      I'd love to be able to carry, or cheaply ship a real computer to sites when I have to travel, or even set it up back at the hotel rooms so I can squash bugs, compile, and do database stuff on a *real* computer.

      It really sucks trying to do some sort of data manipulation involving millions of records, tens of gigabytes at a time, on a pentium M laptop with 512 megs of ram and one of its rinky-dink little hard drives. And many times the space is so tight on the clients server, I really have no choice during an upgrade to migrate the whole thing to the laptop (or usb drive) and watch the poor thing suffer overnight.

      I've been trying to talk the boss into letting me put together a high-specced shuttle cube PC that I could ship out with a 15' LCD for just such an occasion. Once I had them overnight my office desktop to me, because it was apparent that my laptop just couldnt cut it.

      So, like plenty of technologies, just because it's not useful to YOU doesn't mean it isnt useful to anyone.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    3. Re:weigh 20 punds? by ScottLindner · · Score: 4, Funny

      LOL

      I bet that really sucked carrying up a hill both ways too. :-)

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      Slashdot.. where people join together in deliberate ignorance.
    4. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Cleon · · Score: 3, Funny

      In the SNOW, too! ;)

      (I actually do have an old Zenith 8088 laptop that weighs at least 12 pounds.)

      --
      Gifts for Geeks - Stuff that really matters!
    5. Re:weigh 20 punds? by ScottLindner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True.. .but if disk performance is your problem for that amount of data... why not use a portable drive? Laptops are powerful enough.. the only limitation is the disk performance.

      Plus.. making the point that this isn't really portable is still valid. My SFF is a desktop just like anyone else's.. yet it's a lot lighter than this hybrid they are referring to. What's the purpose? I think the innovation is great, but it needs work.

      Why are you so ornery? Is there something wrong with making valid points?

      --
      Slashdot.. where people join together in deliberate ignorance.
    6. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Zzyzygy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's not a portable! My laptop is heavy at 8lbs and it sucks to carry around with all of the gadgets and gizmos. Heck... even my SFF is lighter than 20 pounds. I love the concept but the weight has to improve big time.

      Methinks you are missing the point of TFA. They're comparing apples-to-oranges; like comparing Compaq Portable PC, or luggable, to the laptops (or "ultra-portibles") of the time. I can't cite specific articles, but I do remember reading about the luggable-portable debates in early issues of PC magazine, back around 1987 or so.

      -Scott
      --
      My other sig is a Glock
    7. Re:weigh 20 punds? by punkr0x · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be *much* easier to allow yourself remote access from your laptop to a "beefier" machine in the office for such purposes? Or since that probably wouldn't work very well trying to transport gigs of data back to your office to be converted... slap a spare hard drive in the client's server? 20 lbs is HEAVY...

    8. Re:weigh 20 punds? by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "That's not a portable! My laptop is heavy at 8lbs and it sucks to carry around with all of the gadgets and gizmos. Heck... even my SFF is lighter than 20 pounds."

      It's a lot more portable than the case, kb, mouse, monitor, and speakers I have attached to it. Gotta put it into perspective. Some people read 'portable' as "I don't mind flying across the country with it", and some read it as "I can fold it up and take it to the office".

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    9. Re:weigh 20 punds? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's nothing... In the ancient days before laptops, there were "luggables" that were often mistaken for suitcases and frequently beaten up by gorillas at the airports.

    10. Re:weigh 20 punds? by trb · · Score: 5, Informative

      It may be argued that a 20 lb PC is portable. It may not be argued that it is "ultra-portable." "Portable ultra-PC," maybe. "Ultra-portable PC," no. (Note that this phrasing is an error in the slashdot lead, not in the article itself.)

    11. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you need a server or workstation.

      Can you setup SSH aka putty and just log remotely into a real machine for work?

      If its a unix or linux box you can even do X11 remote port forwarding if you want a desktop.

      Manipulating mass pieces of data is unusual for a portable system designed to get powerpoint presentations and read email?

    12. Re:weigh 20 punds? by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, I have a real laptop computer in front of me and I do all my work on it. It is a DELL Latitude D810. 2GB 533MHZ DDR2 RAM (2x1GM modules,) 2.13GHz Centrino CPU, 100GB 7200RPM HD, 128MB Video memory (ATI,) 15.4"WU 1900x1200 screen, removable DVD+/-RW 8X IDE NEC, removable second battery. It has all the ports that I need, including some ports I don't need. Everything weighs under 2.3Kg. It's a lease, I pay 208CAD/mo for 2 years (I got this laptop a year ago now,) and after 2 years I will buy it out for 1 dollar.

      It is all I need in a computer, really.

    13. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      frequently beaten up by gorillas at the airports.

      that's one thing that hasn't changed, but the excuse has ;)

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    14. Re:weigh 20 punds? by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      The Shuttle sounds like a good idea but why bother with a monitor, presumably you have your laptop with you just remote in with that. a wireless G card and a carrying strap screwed to the top of the shuttle and your good to go.

    15. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Greyfox · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The first laptop a company ever issued me was a 486 but it did weigh a solid 10 pounds or so. To add insult to injury it didn't come with an internal modem (Or the company was too cheap to spring for it) so I also had to carry along an external modem and power supply for same. The laptop's own power supply was only slight less obtrusive than the nuclear reactor tower you get with the Xbox 360.

      You ain't lived until you've had 15 minutes to get from one side of the Atlanta airport (Or Heathrow if you're on that side of the pond) lugging all that crap along. Fortunately that was a more innocent time. If you tried that sprint today the TSA would probably shoot you.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    16. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That kind of volume of data should be processed by some big hardware located somewhere fixed and remotely accessible through the network.

    17. Re:weigh 20 punds? by foamrotreturns · · Score: 1

      I agree with this comment entirely. It's nonsensical to do raw number crunching on a mobile platform. Instead, you should be tunneling into a server with some real horsepower with SSH or a VPN, and then possibly connecting the GUI as well. RDP and VNC can both be tunneled through SSH. Once you're done doing all of the number crunching, then you can transfer the data back over. If the client needs the data crunched on-site, tell them to buy their own server rack.

    18. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to sound like an ass, but have you ever heard of VNC? Just remotely connect into your desktop computer from your laptop and then you get the best of both worlds.

      And if you're worried about security (as well you should be), have the firewall at work block the VNC port but allow the SSH port, then use this little trick:

      ssh yourUsername@yourWorkComputer -L 59XX:127.0.0.1:59XX (where XX is the VNC server number you chose)

      Then tell your VNC client to connect to 127.0.0.1:XX and both the client and server will "think" its counterpart application is located on the same machine, so you get the security of SSH and a full GUI interface thanks to VNC.

      If your client (laptop) computer is running Windows, you can achieve this with a combination of Cygwin and TightVNC. If your server (work desktop) computer is running Windows, well, first, God help you for running a multi-gigabyte database on Windows, and second, I personally know of no way to do this except if you can use a Unix/Linux box as a "go-between." Basically, you SSH+VNC into a Unix/Linux box, then rdesktop into the Windows machine, assuming its Windows 2000 or greater (if you're running a multi-gigabyte database on Windows 98, please, kill yourself now).

    19. Re:weigh 20 punds? by budgenator · · Score: 3, Informative

      I remember those, some were made by osborne and some were made by compac; I think they had 5.5 inch CRT's and the keyboard doubled as the cover.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    20. Re:weigh 20 punds? by CYDVicious · · Score: 3, Funny
      I'd love to be able to carry, or cheaply ship a real computer to sites when I have to travel, or even set it up back at the hotel rooms so I can squash bugs, compile, and do database stuff on a *real* computer.

      With a 20lb laptop you should have no troubles squashing any size bugs in your Hotel, granted if you have to squash bugs, maybe you should find a new hotel?

      --
      //Nothing to see here, please move along.
    21. Re:weigh 20 punds? by dbIII · · Score: 1
      I'd love to be able to carry, or cheaply ship a real computer to sites when I have to travel
      I did that a few years ago - put together a surprisingly cheap dual CPU machine with a pile of ram and a couple of 200GB disks in a small tower case with an LCD screen and a UPS, then had a wooden shipping crate made for it and packed it off to Africa for a couple of months. All went well until Fedex lost the customs paperwork on the way back and refused to take any responsibility - now we're hit with six figure deposits when we want to take anything overseas. In the end even a dual sparc laptop (tadpole) would have been cheaper.

      The way I would do it now is to get some trusted local shop to have something ready for you when you arrive and take the install media with you on the plane - then sell it back to the local shop at a loss after the job is done. It costs money dealing with government agencies like customs and big organisations like Fedex.

    22. Re:weigh 20 punds? by consoneo · · Score: 1

      I think it might be a ploy by all the companies around the world to make geeks stronger, as a whole. The heavier the laptops, the stronger we get. We are supposed to take over the world, so we might as well start preparing.

    23. Re:weigh 20 punds? by rhyno46 · · Score: 0

      I hope you verified the lease buyout price and aren't just guessing. When I had a laptop lease thru Dell about 5 years ago the buyout was over $300.

    24. Re:weigh 20 punds? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      There was even a portable (smaller than a luggable) Commodore 64. I really wanted one. I went through three Commodore 64 computers in a 10 year period until 1994 when I acquired an original IBM AT system in an industrial case that weighed 80 pounds and could be bolted to the floor. Been upgrading my systems ever since then.

    25. Re:weigh 20 punds? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      It's in my contract.

    26. Re:weigh 20 punds? by B_un1t · · Score: 1

      Ouch on the price...Thats a very respectable rig and all, but if you're buying out the lease for one dollar, would you have been able to get a better price just financing the thing to own? 4,450 US for a laptop is a bit on the high side.

    27. Re:weigh 20 punds? by fermion · · Score: 2, Interesting

      you youngens. The osborne I, with a Z80, was 25 pounds. And it did not have all the fancy complicated stuff that makes the modern so-called laptop unreliable.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    28. Re:weigh 20 punds? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      It is more appropriate for me to lease it, this way I can write it off against taxes, since I do contracts.

    29. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Emetophobe · · Score: 1
      Centrino isn't an cpu chip, alot of people seem to get this confused.

      From wikipedia:

      Centrino is a platform marketing initiative from Intel for a particular combination of CPU, mainboard chipset and wireless network interface in the design of a laptop personal computer.
    30. Re:weigh 20 punds? by poizenisXkandee · · Score: 1

      I think we understand that "back in the day" a laptop was much heavier than they are now, but the fact is, everything is changing and the point is that, laptops now are NOT at least 10 pounds. There have been innovations and inventions and not necessarily needs of the people, but the way society has evolved makes it harder to settle. More people want more stuff and less weight to carry around. Everything for easy use but can do more. The concept is interesting, and will probably be very popular as soon as it is perfected and marketed correctly, but things have changed. We should be thankful for what we have now and still keep in mind that it wasn't always like it is now. And respect those who have worked hard to get where they are and just be in awe at how many things have changed.

    31. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      I too thought that was the obvious solution. When you need a real computer, ssh into one.
      Not much help when you're on the move of course, unless you want to pay the insane connection fees most places ask for WiFi nowadays...

      --

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    32. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      Which good would that bee ?

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    33. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah... Bring back the Acer Desknote ;-)

    34. Re:weigh 20 punds? by morie · · Score: 1
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    35. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Morrigu · · Score: 1

      Got a D810 here too, it's a nice little machine. The 7200rpm drive makes a big difference, and having enough RAM helps a lot. Mine's only got 1GB, but that's enough for what I do. Plus my employer bought it, so that's cool too. :)

      --
      "We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - Major Mike Shearer, UK
    36. Re:weigh 20 punds? by cvd6262 · · Score: 1

      This was actually the computer I took to the dorms my freshman year. Yep, 30 lbs.

      The sad part is that I'm still in school.

      --

      I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.

    37. Re:weigh 20 punds? by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      I think you need something like this

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    38. Re:weigh 20 punds? by B_un1t · · Score: 1

      Oh ok, that makes sense. Nice specs on that thing.

    39. Re:weigh 20 punds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Centrino isn't an cpu chip, alot of people seem to get this confused."

      "Alot" isn't a word. A lot of people seem to get this confused.

    40. Re:weigh 20 punds? by JofCoRe · · Score: 1

      I remember those, some were made by osborne and some were made by compac; I think they had 5.5 inch CRT's and the keyboard doubled as the cover.

      That's like the first computer I had to work on (my dad's computer, really, but anway): the Kaypro 2. Ah, the memories... It was a CP/M machine, and had this strange version of BASIC called "MBASIC" (the m was the first letter of the company that made is... nowadays more commonly referred to as MS :) ). I remember all the "BASIC games" books we had, and I remember keying in all the program listings from the books and then reveling in the glory of ASCII-games :)

      My parents still used their Kaypro 2 to print the labels for their Christmas cards up until a few years ago when my Dad couldn't find the disk the labels were saved on or something like that. The Kaypro is still working... boots up in like 2 seconds to :P

      --

      Place sig here.
  2. Try "luggable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's "ultra-portable" about a 20" form factor and 20lbs of weight?

    1. Re:Try "luggable" by vldragon · · Score: 1

      the "ultra-portable" is refering to the Q1 which is very small (compared to the laptop).

      --
      Eating the brains of your enemies does not make you smarter. But it's still fun.
    2. Re:Try "luggable" by Zork+the+Almighty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I believe they mean "portable relative to other desktop computers".

      --

      In Soviet America the banks rob you!
    3. Re:Try "luggable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It says "ultra portable PC", not "ultra portable laptop".

    4. Re:Try "luggable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am about 250 lbs and I am "ultra portable".. my form factor is good due to my height, but hey

  3. Well by Moby+Cock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The worst of both worlds. Big and heavy, thus hard to move around. Performance hit and battery life woes too!

    1. Re:Well by ScottLindner · · Score: 1

      I didn't think your post was funny... I think it's dead on!

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      Slashdot.. where people join together in deliberate ignorance.
  4. Prior art by Mensa+Babe · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've heard this guy has just filed a lawsuit. Apparently he holds the patent for method and aparatus for blurring the line between laptops and desktops.

    --
    Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
    1. Re:Prior art by MrNougat · · Score: 1

      Were I a patent attorney, I would argue that that is prior art for a shouldertop. He might have something on wearable computers, though.

      --
      Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
  5. Ultra-portable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What the hell gives those things the name ultra-portable? For that matter, who would actually want any of these things? It has none of the advantages of a laptop, so basically it's a desktop that costs more than most laptops, with mid to high-range performance.

    1. Re:Ultra-portable? by Zork+the+Almighty · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It would be good for lan parties, but I suspect it's really a way to get people to take their work PC home.

      That being said, I'm sure that since the margins for these things are higher it will soon become unfashionable to carry around a lightweight computer and have an absence of lower back problems. Long live marketing!

      --

      In Soviet America the banks rob you!
    2. Re:Ultra-portable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One use of these systems is geoscience visualization. I have had one of these systems for 2 years (Hypersonic EX7, 4GB RAM, 1920x1200 screen, Nvidia Quadro 1400 graphics, Intel P4 at 3.8GHz) that I use for visualizing and analyzing multiGB datasets. I need large RAM because the data must be RAM resident for speed, good graphics for display of millions of polygons & large, unique textures, and lots of pixels for control widgets and central view window. I regularly go to clients who won't let data offsite, and often need to build custom utility programs to solve specific problems. I can carry my development environment, my company's entire kit of software and have room for client data which is usually transferred via an external 80GB disk.
      Five years ago I used an SGI Onyx system, now my desktop is an HP9300 with 32 GB of RAM, but my favorite machine is the Hypersonic because it is powerful, portable and complete. The cost has gone from 10^6 to 10^4 to ~5000 USD, with similar capabilities. I can guarantee you when something more powerful than the Hypersonic is available, I'll buy it. In fact I'm currently looking for a system with more than 4GB of RAM, to go with Nvidia 2500 graphics and dual Opterons.

  6. maybe good for offices and the like by l3v1 · · Score: 2

    There would probably be a market for such PCs in offices, hospitals, etc etc, still for us this just means hard or impossible to customize, expand, personalize/tweak/mod. So far only Apple managed to sell such hardware to a somewhat considerable average user base, this IMHO should be a sign to care about. And there are also what you would call zealots - and if you wish, I'm also one - who'd never buy a desktop PC for home use pre-built. Of course at work we always order Dells and the like, as any other sane human would do, and this is one of the possible target market - which I was talking about in the beginning - and these places will probably drop really big money for these smaller machines.

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  7. Depends on the use by FiveDollarYoBet · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I think it depends on the use of the laptop. I just got a new rig with a 17" screen and while it does weigh in at 9lbs. it fits my usage. I needed a good machine that I could stare at for long periods but once a month or so I could toss it in the car and go on-site. People just need to realize that these aren't for the salesman who spends 340+ days a year on the road and they're not for the data entry temp's cube.

    Of course knowing that didn't stop me from cursing about how heavy my bag was while lugging it around the subway on the way to the clients!

    1. Re:Depends on the use by epee1221 · · Score: 1

      That sounds a lot like my setup:
      15-inch laptop, with a USB hub, keyboard, mouse and speakers.
      When I want to take it on the road, I can just bring the lappy (fits in a briefcase-size carrier, which in turn fits in my bag) and the mouse (fits in my pocket).

      --
      "The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
  8. The Market for This? by nko321 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many people here are looking for a 15+ lb. machine to replace their desktop priced at $2000+ USD?

    Okay, now how many people are looking for a sub-5 lb. machine in a laptop form factor that can run basic productivity software with excellent battery life priced at less than $800 USD?

    Why are there so few options for the latter scenario? And an even better question: why are there so many options for the former scenario!?

    1. Re:The Market for This? by metamatic · · Score: 1

      It's a mystery to me. There must be some solid marketing behind why Apple don't offer a truly portable machine, for example.

      Sony have some nice portables. If only they had a decent operating system...

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    2. Re:The Market for This? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How many people here are looking for a 15+ lb. machine to replace their desktop priced at $2000+ USD?

      My stepfather just bought one. I don't know if it weights 15 lbs, but it's a beast by portable standards. It's purpose isn't really desktop replacement, but to showoff their cpu-intensive software to customers with a setup that is relatively easy to take on a plane. It is not intended to be used while on the plane. I'm pretty sure this is a fairly uncommon requirement.

      Okay, now how many people are looking for a sub-5 lb. machine in a laptop form factor that can run basic productivity software with excellent battery life priced at less than $800 USD?

      Hey now, it's also gotta have enough beef in it to run freecell! But yeah, one would think there are tons of people in that group, particularly if you could knock a couple hundred dollars off that price.

      Why are there so few options for the latter scenario? And an even better question: why are there so many options for the former scenario!?

      My guess? Margins on the latter are much better than the former.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    3. Re:The Market for This? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Sony have some nice portables. If only they had a decent operating system...

      And decent management. I refuse to buy any Sony equipment due to the Rootkit fiasco.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    4. Re:The Market for This? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "Apple don't offer a truly portable machine,"

      Huh?

      If you've got a bag that'll carry a three-ring binder, it'll fit a 12" Apple laptop. What definition are you arbitrarily assigning to the phrase "truly portable machine"?

      (I'm thinking of the "No True Scotsman..." fallacy here...)

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    5. Re:The Market for This? by Burning1 · · Score: 1

      There are tonnes of laptops in the latter scenereo: Used laptops.

    6. Re:The Market for This? by timeOday · · Score: 1
      Why are there so few options for the latter scenario? And an even better question: why are there so many options for the former scenario!?
      You just answered your own question; obviously more people care about high performance than super light weight. My manager has both a tiny, light laptop and a pretty big honkin fast one. He travels all the time, and he seems to use his larger laptop a lot more. I think he just likes the full-sized keyboard and big screen, and it's a pain moving data back and forth to the small one. He's a fairly big guy and I doubt he cares about a few pounds of laptop.

      Then there are people like my parents who never use their laptop on battery power, but take it to different rooms at home, or their second home on weekends. Another few pounds certainly don't matter to them.

      Me, I go for a middleweight (14" screen). I doubt I would notice 5 lbs either way, but big screens are unweildy in econo-class airline seating. Having used both, there's a huge difference in performance between the smallest laptops and a good mid-sized laptop like the IBM (Lenovo) T-series.

    7. Re:The Market for This? by Mard · · Score: 1

      I'd love to own a computer buff enough to play the latest games (RoN for instance), but transportable enough to easily unplug and move to another location, for playing LAN games with friends. I think this market is fairly slim.

      --
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    8. Re:The Market for This? by nko321 · · Score: 1

      Used laptops have long lasting batteries?

    9. Re:The Market for This? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      My guess? Margins on the latter are much better than the former.

      Oops, I got that backwards. Hopefully it was clear that I meant that the margins are higher on the expensive desktop replacements.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    10. Re:The Market for This? by metamatic · · Score: 1

      The Newton was portable. A slim 10" laptop is just about portable. Something that needs a full size courier bag to lug around isn't.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    11. Re:The Market for This? by djrogers · · Score: 1
      If you've got a bag that'll carry a three-ring binder, it'll fit a 12" Apple laptop.
      Which has been discontinued... Parent probably should have said that Apple apparently abandoned that market with the move to macbooks, but the point is still valid.
      --
      Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
    12. Re:The Market for This? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Mmmkay. The 13" iBook (uh, I mean Macbook) is pretty darn close to the same size.

      I mean, sure...get as excited as you want about whatever you want. But asserting that Apple doesn't have any truly portable computers...come on. That's just silly.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    13. Re:The Market for This? by Moofie · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have a full-size courier bag. I could fit at least a dozen MacBooks in it, and still have room for a nice lunch. Come to think of it, I could probably fit one of each computer Apple sells right now in the bag simultaneously, if I had any reason to do something so absurd.

      If you define "Portable" as "Fits in your pants pocket", I have a whole lot of books that are not portable. I think that's a fairly silly definition.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    14. Re:The Market for This? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm waiting for the $100 laptop. The colours kinda bug me, but you can't beat the feature set for ultra-portable, rugged computing.

    15. Re:The Market for This? by Ollierose · · Score: 1

      I'd go one step further, in that I wanted to take my mac to an exhibition that I was helping to set up for not too long ago, and found that the 12" iBook will fit comfortably in the paper pocket (inside) of a laptop bag when a dell laptop resides in the main body of the bag.

      I don't think you can get much closer to portable for electronics than that.

    16. Re:The Market for This? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      HOLY CRAP! You carried not one, but TWO, non-portable computers on your person? WOW! How much can you bench!

      : )

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    17. Re:The Market for This? by Steve001 · · Score: 1

      What I've wanted to see as an option is a PDA that functions as the main CPU of a computer system when placed in the cradle on your desk (rather than being an attachment to a computer). The user can designate the files that will be on the PDA for travel, and the rest of the components will remain on the desk.

      An advantage I can see to this is that upgrading the system is as simple as replacing the PDA for a more powerful one, rather than having to replace the entire system. Also, you could seemlessly transition from working on your desk to working on the go (for example, you are working on a document at your desk. Then you remove the PDA and the document is available exactly as you left it.)

  9. Good and bad parts by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Informative

    1. Cost in the more than $2000 range, up to $5000.
    2. Adopted in developing countries, where power is much more unstable or harder to get - easier to recharge this from solar cells or power that's only on a few hours a day.
    3. Reminds me of the old "luggable" portables one hated having to lug around, especially give the 20 lb weights.
    4. Might be good for someone off the grid, with a portable high-speed connection (satellite dish or long-range WiFi?)
    5. Might also be good for someone who is retired and moves infrequently (snowbirds).

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  10. Hardware Upgrades by MarkByers · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Laptops are great, they are so handy. I am sitting on the sofa writing this, something I can't do with my tower PC. The price of laptops is reasonable these days too.

    Frome TFA: 'LIMITED CAPACITY TO CUSTOMIZE'

    Agreed! The one thing that makes me still want a tower PC at times is that it is much cheaper and easier to upgrade a tower PC with the latest gadgets. Try upgrading the graphics card in a laptop computer, or installing a TV card... Ugh!

    --
    I'll probably be modded down for this...
    1. Re:Hardware Upgrades by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Try upgrading the graphics card in a laptop computer, or installing a TV card... Ugh!

      Plugging stuff into USB ports is too hard for you?

      If you bought the laptop for gaming (about the only reason you'd ever need to update the graphics card), then you get what you deserve. But there are plenty of decent USB 2.0 TV adapters out there, and we demo our multi-screen app on laptops with addon USB video adapters.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:Hardware Upgrades by MarkByers · · Score: 1

      Plugging stuff into USB ports is too hard for you?

      If you start sticking external devices into a laptop, you lose portability, which is one of the key advantages of a laptop. Without portability, you might as well get a tower PC.

      If you bought the laptop for gaming (about the only reason you'd ever need to update the graphics card)

      So I can assume that you have never heard of XGL?

      Actually I have both a laptop and a tower PC because they both have their advantages and disadvantages, but if there was a laptop that was as cheap and easy to upgrade as my tower PC (no easily broken external parts or dangling wires) I would ditch the tower for good. Obviously this means that add-on cards are going to have to be:

      a) A lot smaller than they are today. (Probably will happen one day.)
      b) Standard for all laptops. (Yeah, right!!! In my dreams!)

      I know it's not going to happen for a long time, but perhaps one day...

      --
      I'll probably be modded down for this...
    3. Re:Hardware Upgrades by Helios1182 · · Score: 1

      To be fair, you are going to be tethered down with a TV tuner anyway.

    4. Re:Hardware Upgrades by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because you're toting around your cable TV connection there in your man-bag, right?

      How portable does a TV solution need to be? If you're ripping to digital video, you don't need a TV card when you're playing back. If you're recording video, you're attached to a wire that's affixed to a building.

      Unless you've got a backpack with a DirectTV dish on it. If that's the case, I think complaining about the portability of USB TV decoders is kinda silly.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    5. Re:Hardware Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you have nothing worth watchin FTA in the US doesnt mean thats the case worldwide.
      USB DVB tuners are available in the UK allowing 30-40 tv channels + numerous radio channels, are a real reason to have a tv tuner on a laptop.

    6. Re:Hardware Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And exactly how well do they work without an external aerial?

      My desktop DVB card needs at the very least an indoor aerial carefully setup pointing in the direction of the transmitter, if I haven't got the aerial setup right at the very best I get a very broken up reception, but more likely I don't get anything at all over DVB. The analog reception is less picky about the aerial however.

      Oh and at least half the channels available aren't worth watching anyway. So in reality it is more like 10-15 TV channels.

    7. Re:Hardware Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, signal strength for DVB currently is not up to analogue standards (but should improve with the analogue switch off in 2007-10), but a lot of this depends on the location. My old place in south London had a perfect DVB reception with no aerial plugged in, where as my new place in central London has dreadful reception for both analogue and digital, when using a booster box and a rooftop aerial. This doesnt discount the usefulness portable DVB tuners if you *are* in a good reception area.

  11. Re:PowerBooks by mr_flea · · Score: 1

    What you've just described is simply a high-end laptop. My 2-year-old Toshiba laptop even has a 7200 rpm hard drive (upgraded, but still 7200 rpm). It also has tv out and handles multimedia well. I can attach a 2nd monitor and watch hdtv-resolution video with no problem at all. I frequently play Unreal Tournament 2004 at 1024x768 with 32 bit color, and it does fine (unless I max out the quality settings with stuff like trilinear filtering, at which time it overheats the improperly cooled video card).

  12. Luggables? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    Didn't we used to call these luggables back in the day?

    You hauled around a big honking box which had the monitor and everything built it. They were utterly immense.

    A 20lb 'laptop' is kind of a scary thought.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Luggables? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but back in the day, they had miniature, usually monochrome, monitors -- even when vGA was becoming common for desktops.

    2. Re:Luggables? by HermanAB · · Score: 1

      The Osborne and Kaypro...

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
  13. scoliosis on the rise? by JonTurner · · Score: 1

    >>"ultra-portable PCs..." "...20 pounds"

    Excuse me? What's that word again? "ULTRA-portable?" Compared to what, exactly, a steam powered Babbage Difference Engine? That's 20 pounds PLUS the weight of the bag PLUS all the shit you carry around with it including a charger, probably an extra battery (if battery life is as bad as the article says), CDs, mouse, books, etc.

    Who would this appeal to? I just don't get it.

    1. Re:scoliosis on the rise? by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Somebody who doesnt carry their computer around all the time, but maybe a few times a year needs to take some real computer power with him on the road.. Like me.. A laptop is too weak for what I try to do on it, and a traditional tower desktop is too unweildly.

      Or you have the folks who want a simple, slick shiney package for the home/office, without giving up functionality.

      I like the concept. One plug to AC power, one to the 'net (if no wireless available), built-in UPS, and a small footprint.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:scoliosis on the rise? by Helios1182 · · Score: 1

      College students who change dorms/apartments every year, move home to their parents for the summer, and have a month off at Christmas. It would be much easier to carry than a desktop.

    3. Re:scoliosis on the rise? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      College students also don't have the money to spend on this thing.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    4. Re:scoliosis on the rise? by epee1221 · · Score: 1

      It would be much easier to carry than a desktop.
      Which is why I have a laptop.
      As has been said in other comments, those machines have the worst qualities of both desktops and laptops.

      --
      "The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
  14. ULTRA portable? by caudron · · Score: 4, Funny

    I know what "ultra" means. Do they? I believe the phrase they are looking for is Semi Portable, not Ultra Portable.

    That's like saying Windows is Ultra Stable or Linux is Ultra Simple!

    Tom "Ultra Brilliant" Caudron
    http://tom.digitalelite.com/

    --
    -Tom
    1. Re:ULTRA portable? by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Better yet: pseudo-portable

  15. Not just disk performance by everphilski · · Score: 1

    ... processor performance is still gimp and in general the video cards in laptops (vs luggables) suck. Those are 2 big points for developers. The rest is just gravy :)

    1. Re:Not just disk performance by ScottLindner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What?! Laptops awesome performance. There are lots of gamers that use laptops and at work we use high performance laptops as our demo road show that are more powerful than our blade server clusters. What you smokin? The only performance dig we've ever measured are the hard disks. I think you are buying cheap laptops and expecting the performance of expensive workstations. Or are looking at the wrong laptops for your needs.

      --
      Slashdot.. where people join together in deliberate ignorance.
    2. Re:Not just disk performance by Ruff_ilb · · Score: 1

      I know not a single gamer who uses a laptop as a primary device. Desktops are much, much cheaper for comparable performance, offer greater options in terms of overclocking and cooling, and can be custom-built and easily upgraded. There aren't very many reasons for a gamer to use a laptop instead of a desktop; in fact, the only one I can really think of is the obvious portability that a laptop offers, which isn't demanded in most applications.

      --
      http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
    3. Re:Not just disk performance by Wicko · · Score: 1

      But there are a lot more desktop gamers. You just don't have the same expandibility, and you can't really overclock. Little things like that drive gamers to desktops. Not to mention laptop keyboards are horrible in comparison to desktop keyboards, I don't think that there are any ergonomic laptop keyboards are there?

    4. Re:Not just disk performance by tbmcmullen · · Score: 1, Informative

      Hi, I'm Tyler. Now you do.

    5. Re:Not just disk performance by Kuxman · · Score: 1

      Lan parties...

      --
      http://www.asti-usa.com
    6. Re:Not just disk performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slow HDD does not have to be a problem. Hitachi GST sells 100GB 7200 RPM mobile HDDs.

    7. Re:Not just disk performance by Ruff_ilb · · Score: 1

      Yea, but most gamers I know either:

      A) Haul their desktop to a LAN party

      or

      B) Use a laptop that's not their primary machine.

      Besides, since LAN parties can be as much about E-Peen rigs as the actual gaming, most gamers just go for the desktop. Only when you literally need to be able to pull out a computer and game for a few minutes at a time in varying locations is a laptop worthwhile.

      --
      http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
    8. Re:Not just disk performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never seen anyone bring a laptop to a LAN party.

    9. Re:Not just disk performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I just love how the 10 or 20 users people "know" "Yea, but most gamers I know either..." in a limited area of influence are automatically an equivalent set to all agamers everywhere. Desktops are cheaper and can support faster subsystems, they can even be overclocked. Nobody has argued those points. However, you live in a world with other gamers who aren't as price sensitive as you are and don't want the headaches of an overclocked machine. To them, hauling around 100 lbs of desktop and CRT for a 5% boost isn't worth the trad off of not being able to game from the local Starbucks, or out by the pool, or even on the other side of the room without a huge hassle.

    10. Re:Not just disk performance by masterzora · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I know not a single gamer (IRL, at any rate) who doesn't use a laptop as a primary device. Does that make us even?

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
    11. Re:Not just disk performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flamebait? That's a little fuckin' harsh. Well, maybe I only think that because I was about to submit "Hi, My name's Ben. Now you know one!" Ah well. Guess I'd better post this inflamitory stuff as AC.

    12. Re:Not just disk performance by period3 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately most laptops only support 2GB of memory.

    13. Re:Not just disk performance by giorgiofr · · Score: 1

      The problem stems from the definition of "gamer". You think a gamer is anyone who likes playing videogames. Well no, that is simply a user. A "gamer" is much more than that. Add in: 1337n355, LAN parties, SLI systemz, pimped-up rigs etc and you get a gamer. SUCH real gamer will NOT be satisfied with the solutions you mention. I, for one, need beefy b0x3n 2 p3wn j00 w/ my g4m1n6 powas" :D

      --
      Global warming is a cube.
    14. Re:Not just disk performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At our last LAN, all 20+ participants had laptops. Now we're even. Don't generalize based on your experience.

  16. Re:PowerBooks by peragrin · · Score: 4, Informative

    While I own a powerbook, just about any 12-15" laptop with a decent video out, and a couple of USB ports works great both ways.

    my 12" powerbook normally sites on my desk with a USB keyboard and mouse plugged and on the keyboard tray and a 19" LCD off to the side. I can use both displays at the same time(a feature found in all OS's now a days) and the hot swap mini dvi port means i can unplug the 19"lcd and plug in my 27" tv, sit back and watch a dvd. Both displays automatically switch to the settings I like for each.

    Then when i do travel I just have to carry a 4.5 pound notebook, and a light case containing a couple of cords a USB travel mouse. Most of the time while traveling i don't even both with carrying a power supply because I have 4 hours of wireless web surfing, and more if i turn off the wireless card.

    That's called the best of both worlds. And as I stated you can do that with XP or linux as well(not sure about hot swap monitors for either, but that's relatively minor)

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  17. Two words: pen drive by JonTurner · · Score: 1

    >>It would be good for lan parties, but I suspect it's really a way to get people to take their work PC home.

    2Gb Pen drive. 4 ounces vs 25 pounds.

    I agree with your sentiment. These luggables are a solution in search of a problem.

    1. Re:Two words: pen drive by Rix · · Score: 1

      Not everyone has the same priorities. So long as it fits in my pack, it's portable enough, beyond that I want a large screen and useful keyboard, so bigger is better, and I don't mind carrying 20lb.

  18. I used to gripe about these things by bunions · · Score: 1

    but I'm realizing that there's a lot of people don't really need a lot of the features of their laptops - they're not moved often, they don't ever use them without plugging them in - but they do want some kind of portability and the tidiness (no mouse, keyboard or video cables, just one power thing). Seems to me an updated version of those fold-up-into-a-briefcase computers would do well, especially if they were easy to upgrade, but then what do I know?

    --
    there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
    1. Re:I used to gripe about these things by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Sounds like what the target audience for this kind of thing really wants is an iMac clone. All in one hardware with minimal cable clutter. Moveable, without being truly portable. And cheaper than an iMac, not more expensive, which going for a laptop form factor is likely to make these things.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    2. Re:I used to gripe about these things by bunions · · Score: 1

      exactly. I was going to mention the iMac, but I didn't want to drag in the Apple drama.

      The only thing missing is a decent way to carry it - it needs a cover that folds over the screen and some kind of rubber bumpers or some goddamn thing on it to make it at least vaguely durable while in transit.

      --
      there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
    3. Re:I used to gripe about these things by Qbertino · · Score: 1

      All in one hardware with minimal cable clutter.
      Heh. You haven't seen the USB hubs and resulting cable rat-nests and the additional monitor and external speakers and the cat5 Ethernet and the firewire iSight attached to my 12" iBook right here. ... Wait a minute, did I just say "firewire iSight"? ... There you go. You can see a bit of this post on the screen. ... 'Minimal cable clutter' ,*ts*, my ass.

      (That purple thing is the most expensive USB device in the picture, btw. It's a dongle for Lightwave.)

      --
      We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  19. Simple. by treeves · · Score: 4, Funny

    If "ultraviolet" means light that is beyond violet "ultra-portable" means beyond portable. i.e. it's too heavy to be considered portable.

    --
    ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    1. Re:Simple. by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      If that's the case, these should be called "infra-portables". As in less than portable, or lower portabilty. Particularly when compared to a fridge, an unconscious horse or a medium-sized country.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  20. Forgot Mac by MarkByers · · Score: 1

    That's like saying Windows is Ultra Stable or Linux is Ultra Simple!

    Good flames, but for the win you need to insult Windows, Linux and Mac all in one sentence. You only managed two out of three.

    --
    I'll probably be modded down for this...
    1. Re:Forgot Mac by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Well, if he didn't get the win, then I'll take I'll take Paul Lynde for the block!

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Forgot Mac by dal20402 · · Score: 1

      Good flames, but for the win you need to insult Windows, Linux and Mac all in one sentence. You only managed two out of three.

      Easy. Add: "... or Macs are Ultra Cheap!!!" (or "Ultra Powerful")

      To return perfunctorily to the topic... these things are for the same brainiacs who think bigger is better everywhere else and buy Ford Excursions to drive Super-Size combos home to their empty 6000-square-foot McMansions in wherever the newest, biggest suburb is. Somehow in America we're afflicted with a disproportionate number of them. If 17" laptops are good, then 20"... uh... uh... well, I guess for these types, they'll probably fit on a lap... are better.

      I'll stick with my 15" MacBook Pro, thanks. And I can't resist telling the OMG MAX SUX troll a few posts up that "most of the world" doesn't need to run SQL Server, but DVD Player, iTunes, and Microsoft Office. Unless I'm hallucinating, my MBP runs that stuff just fine (and Logic Pro better than fine, to boot).

  21. The weight really isn't that big 'a deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have had a Dell XPS Gen 2 for about 6 months now and I love it. Performance in Linux is spectacular and I get to boot in to Windows to get my frag on in a high FPS way. It's important to keep in mind, however, that the "desktop replacement" laptop is not designed for the jet setting business crowd that has to lug bags through an airport 1-4 times a month. I'm guessing that, demographically speaking, that crowd is less interested in video games than the typical power desktop owner anyway, and that's really what these behemouths are made for - the ability to game.

    Does it suck to stand in a security line for 30 minutes with one? Hell yeah. Don't buy one if you are going to find yourself in that situation often. But don't let an innappropriateness for one application color your opinion for the technology as a whole. If you want a small laptop, you can buy a small laptop. If you want a portable gaming machine, you can buy a big laptop If you want a small laptop and a killer gaming machine in one, you can get it at the Have Your Cake And Eat It Too store. (It's owned by Best Buy and right now they have $4000 mail-in rebate coupons for them.)

  22. First real laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  23. Re:PowerBooks by stratjakt · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Can I run Visual Studio .NET and a full install of SQL Server 2005 on it with relatively large (20 gig or so) databases?

    If not, it's absolutely useless to me, as shiney as it is, and regardless of how many games you play on it.

    Why is everything a chance to evangelize or an opportunity for a sales pitch?

    WHY DONT YOU MAC CLOWNS EVER SHUT THE FUCK UP? I've never seen a mac in use by anyone but trendy mcpopcollars and wannabe computer guys. Face facts, it doesnt run the software that I (or the majority of the world) need on a day to day basis.

    It's really easy to "just work" when it has such limited usefulness, and it's easy to "not need drivers" when it's hardware specs are cast in stone on high Mt Jobs.

    Fortunately for me, it's also just easy to install the drivers and software I need on a PC.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  24. if only it were blurred in a different direction.. by buddyglass · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here is what I'd like to buy: a laptop, but without the keyboard, monitor, touchpad, speakers, and optical drive. Basically a little brick I could carry back and forth between work/home and drop into a docking station that's hooked up to a full-size keyboard, mouse and 21" LCD monitor. If you ditch all the human I/O devices (keyboard, touchpad, monitor, speakers) and commit to using an external optical drive, the thing shouldn't be much bigger/heavier than a portable hard drive.

    Alternately, I'd be happy with a "very fast" portable hard drive that has an elegant plugin interface to a desktop box. Then I could install everything on that drive and just lug it back and forth. The issue there is that I'd need to have "very similar" hardware in the two locations.

  25. Origami Pro? by eebra82 · · Score: 1

    This fits into the category between portable laptops and stationary PC:s. It smells like a reversed Origami project really, which is normally a category between a handheld and a portable laptop.

    I'm sure it's actually going to be used by some, but there's never going to be a market for a beast like this until we have foldable screens and a maximum of 4 KG (8 pounds) or so. Seriously, even my 23" monitor is portable to some extent, but that's not a reason to carry it under your arm.

  26. Re:ULTRA? No. Pseudo? Yes. Also. . . by treeves · · Score: 1

    Quasi-portable.
    from Webster's:
    1 : having some resemblance usually by possession of certain attributes (a quasi corporation) 2 : having a legal status only by operation or construction of law and without reference to intent (a quasi contract) [emphasis mine]

    --
    ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  27. Don't think of it as a laptop... by lucky130 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ...think of it as serving the same function as an iMac.

  28. Shuttle PCs weight less, use standard parts by billstewart · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Your basic Shuttle PC weighs about 4kg before you add the disk and CPU, takes standard PCI cards, has an optional handle for the top, and costs about $200-300 empty, maybe $700 heavily loaded, plus you'd need an LCD monitor of whatever size is convenient and a little keyboard. That'll weigh a lot less than these misnamed monster laptops, use standard parts so there's a viable upgrade path, and cost 1/4 as much.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:Shuttle PCs weight less, use standard parts by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Not to mention it can be optionally doubled, I have a shuttle box which I can take home to my parent's place, hook up to a monitor and keyboard there. Suddenly the bulk size is basicly down to the Shuttle box (+ mouse). The really inconvienient part about a Shuttle box is if you need to pack down an LCD screen as well - you need to protect the display against scratches/damage. Easy enough if you got a car and can make sure it's against a soft surface - very annoying if you're using a suitcase. I wish the one I have came with a hard plastic top to cover the screen during transport, would have been very handy. With the styrofoam(?) padding and oversized box it takes a suitcase by itself!

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  29. Re:PowerBooks by heinousjay · · Score: 1

    Boy, you get awfully angry over such a nothing. Maybe you need psychiatric help.

    --
    Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
  30. iMac G5/Intel by twjordan · · Score: 1

    I consider my iMac G5 a portable desktop. It weighs about 20 pounts, and I even bought a custom case (with backpack straps) that makes it easy and pretty safe to carry it around. It sets up in seconds, and the new iMacs are even lighter.

    I took it carry-on on a flight to Hawaii (for work) and had no problems, TSA was way interested, oohs and ahhs.

  31. Re:PowerBooks by truthsearch · · Score: 1

    I'll ignore the rest of your pointless comment but respond to this:

    Can I run Visual Studio .NET and a full install of SQL Server 2005 on it with relatively large (20 gig or so) databases?

    It runs Java (you know, that .NET clone) and any of its IDEs. I run a 5GB mySQL database on it (far faster than SQL Server for most tasks) also with no problems. I'm a software developer and use it for work anywhere I choose to be.

    I was a software developer on Windows for 10 years and happily switched to Unix/Mac. You wacky Windows zealots will never get me to use that OS ever again.

  32. highlinghts? by insanarchist · · Score: 1

    ABORT, RETRY, FAIL? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/highlinght s)

  33. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by Bassman59 · · Score: 1
    "Here is what I'd like to buy: a laptop, but without the keyboard, monitor, touchpad, speakers, and optical drive. Basically a little brick I could carry back and forth between work/home and drop into a docking station that's hooked up to a full-size keyboard, mouse and 21" LCD monitor. If you ditch all the human I/O devices (keyboard, touchpad, monitor, speakers) and commit to using an external optical drive, the thing shouldn't be much bigger/heavier than a portable hard drive."

    OK, so it's got an optical drive, but otherwise fits your bill: Mac mini.

  34. MacBook Pro by ksattic · · Score: 1
    Can I run Visual Studio .NET and a full install of SQL Server 2005 on it with relatively large (20 gig or so) databases?
    I can on my MacBook Pro... <runs>
  35. Re:PowerBooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well I'm pretty sure the new MacBooks can with Parallels Workstation (http://www.parallels.com/)... I'm hoping to replace my 12" Powerbook and Dell Latitude for this reason. Sorry if this pisses you off... I guess...

  36. Re:PowerBooks by Moofie · · Score: 1

    You need a hug.

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  37. They are called luggables. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    There has been a class of portable computer called a luggable since the early 1980s - don't start calling it a laptop luggable!!

    In order of size we have:

    PDA
    Palm Top (nothing to do the Palm OS)
    Notebook - so named for being the size of a5 notebook
    Laptop - but has anyone noticed modern laptops will die from heat dissipation problems if you actually use it on your lap. :-(
    Desktop replacement - a laptop that proves battery technology still has a way to go.
    Luggable - very heavy portable computer that usually runs only on mains voltage; if it has a battery it lasts about 30 minutes or weighs more than small car. Actually, luggable battery power is designed for UPS type operation rather than real world usage. There are special batteries for military luggables that last between three and twenty four hours depending on mission requirements - these are quite expensive as you may imagine.

    These days the difference between a high end luggable and a mainframe is mainframe carry-on luggage bags have to be made to order. ;-)

  38. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by hitmark · · Score: 1

    heh, i have been toying with an idea like that for some time (i think i even have a journal entry about how i envision it here on slashdot.

    you dont realy need that much similar hardware, but licencing issues will show up when going windows...

    in windows you can set up diffrent hardware profiles, and linux never have a big problem detecting and loading the right drivers at boot-time.

    btw, i belive i spotted a entry on engadget where some company was planing a imac-clone with a replaceable hardware box. the hardware was stored in a box the size of a PSU and a had handle for easy removal and transport. this was buildt into the back of a LCD-panel...

    --
    comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  39. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I want a MacMini too!

    --
    The cake is a pie
  40. Fan noise by 2centplain · · Score: 3, Insightful
    One of the problems of a so-called desktop-replacement notebook is fan noise.
    IMHO, a notebook sitting on my wheezing high-pitched hot air at me is annoying. I'd rather have a deskside CPU box, with a larger, quieter fan.

    I wonder if there are any desktop replacement notebooks that don't have fans? (Or, if they do, have very quiet fans...)

    As far as I know, all the Dell notebooks have fans. Sure, when the machine is idle, the fans don't run. But, once you start doing some amount of work, expect the "wheeeeeeeee".

    1. Re:Fan noise by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I just bought a new PC, and it has those new huge diameter fans. It doesn't even sound like it's on most of the time. You'd think that going to a more powerful machine with more fans would make for a louder machine, but no, this thing in ultra silent.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  41. Re:PowerBooks by IANAAC · · Score: 1

    Keep in mind that the majority of the world also doesn't need to run Visual Sudio .Net or SQL Server with a 20 Gig database.
    It's called "Server" for a reason.

  42. so you're the one who lost all those by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you're the one who lost all those Social Security records!

    involving millions of records, tens of gigabytes at a time, on a pentium M lapt

  43. Re:PowerBooks by Pollardito · · Score: 2, Interesting
    My Titanium PowerBook is more powerful than your average desktop (except for the slow HD). It handles multimedia perfectly and has TV and audio outputs. I haven't gotten it to choke on a single game yet.
    given that most of the games available for a Powerbook were designed 3-4 years ago, i can totally believe that you haven't seen it choke on a single game yet. Nethack only takes so much juice to play :)

    seriously though, i wouldn't take my Powerbook anywhere near a 40-person raid encounter in WoW
  44. My idea for a portable desktop by Millenniumman · · Score: 1

    Here's my idea for a portable desktop: The computer and storage can be in a backpack, with a laptop shaped screen and keyboard that wirelessly hook up to it. That way you can have a lot of computing power, but still be able to carry it around, and have a lightweight, ergonomic device to hold and use. You could plug the backpack in, and carry around the laptop-like I/O device, which would have plenty of space for batteries. A battery for a fully powered desktop computer would probably be too heavy to every carry around.

    --
    Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
  45. Rule no. 1 by Frightening · · Score: 1

    A desktop should never try to become like a laptop. It is, in contrast, the laptop's eternal dream to become a desktop..hence the phrase "Desktop Replacement".

    Can you imagine a "Laptop Replacement"? All the other desktops would call it a pussy.

  46. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    you don't want gma 950

  47. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by riffzifnab · · Score: 1

    It exists (sotra), behold the OQO! Its a little brick with a screen and keyboard that you can dock and use as a full PC. Not quite what you asked for but close.

  48. Re:PowerBooks (Wow, someone DOES need a hug...) by dias_flac · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "I've never seen a mac in use by anyone but trendy mcpopcollars and wannabe computer guys. Face facts, it doesnt run the software that I (or the majority of the world) need on a day to day basis."

    Wow. I guess this guy doesn't get out much. Apparently the world doesn't need MS Office, Final Cut Pro, iLife, Doom 3, MySQL, C++, and a multitude of other applications, programming languages, and games that are available. I guess since this guy's so smart, perhaps he can tell me how these companies somehow make a profit and pay the bills by providing software that he and the majority of the world 'don't' need on a day-to-day basis. I guess the US Army doesn't need the farm of Xserves they use to keep their Website running. I guess the sizeable percentage of music production studios and film houses - both indie and pro - don't need the plethora of software that helps give their projects life.

    I guess the rest of the world relies only on SQL Server and Visual Studio on their laptops while they sip lattes at their local coffee houses. I guess all of the scientists, students, business owners, soccer moms, musicians, digital artists, magazine editors, and IT professionals (like me) don't use anything but Microsoft's wares to fulfill our every computing need. I guess we're all 'wannabe computer guys', just like the engineers at Apple, right?

    Wow, what insight. I'll bet you can create an entire two-button Web form all by yourself in Visual Studio. Heck, I imagine that you can probably link controls and textboxes to records in your 20 GB database of p0rn and view them at will! Boy, ADO .NET really serves its purpose, doesn't it?

    Outside of the dual GPUs and incredible weight of the aforementioned 'portable' products, my 17" PowerBook has all of the features listed. Including a wide-screen. And my Apple weighs less than seven pounds, and is about an inch thick. It feels like I'm carrying a magazine. That's why we won't 'shut the F up'. Mac users pretty much have everything that they need, including database software and development tools. For the most part, they like their computers, and like using them, instead of having to just deal with them.

    And about the article, for the rest of the /.tters that may be reading this - personally, I can't help but to feel like chuckling when I read about how so many people who posted to this article mention how heavy laptops used to be, are now, and apparently will be, when Apple has provided such a slim and light unit. Of course, Mac OS X won't serve everyone's particular needs, but when I think about the sheer weight and girth of these new offerings from the major widget manufacturers, and the fact that they will SOON be available, I wonder if anyone would consider installing Windows XP or Vista on a MacBook Pro...when Apple works out the kinks.

    Hey, Mr. Me-And-The-Rest-Of-The-World-Needs-Nothing-More-Th an-Dot-NOT, just let me know if you require any more reasons as to why Mac users won't 'shut the F up'. I'm dying to tell you.

    Can't help you with the hug, though. Cheers.

    (there goes my karma)

    --
    "Oh, yes, you did, Brett...yes, you did!"
  49. Re:PowerBooks by dias_flac · · Score: 1

    ...Neither would I. ;)

    --
    "Oh, yes, you did, Brett...yes, you did!"
  50. Re:weigh 20 pounds? by kencurry · · Score: 1

    I really did!

    Had to carry compaq 18 lb monster, thru o'hare airport, thru snow, to our destination for an engineering test.

    --
    sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
  51. The big news is the detachable LCD screen by aricusmaximus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Big laptops are nothing new - what's interesting is the Samsung M70 with a detachable screen. Finally!

    Consider the potential options:
    - LCD dies -- go buy a replacement screen instead of sending in your entire notebook for repair
    - keep a backup LCD
    - Laptop motherboard dies - keep the screen and buy the notebook without the LCD, saving $100's
    - buy a lower resolution LCD screen and upgrade later
    - Detach and use on a stand for a more ergnomic fit -- or use 2 LCD screens.
    - keep two screens at home and work. travel with screen-less notebook for less weight

    I don't know if/when it will happen, but I look forward to the day the notebook industry implements a standard LCD/notebook cradle or other physical interface to attach LCD screens.

    1. Re:The big news is the detachable LCD screen by aggiefalcon01 · · Score: 1
      ... go buy a replacement screen instead of sending in your entire notebook for repair ...
      Why send in your entire laptop when it's generally simple to replace the LCD yourself?
      --
      Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
  52. My calculations say Shuttle weighs much more... by MojoStan · · Score: 1
    Your basic Shuttle PC weighs about 4kg before you add the disk and CPU, takes standard PCI cards, has an optional handle for the top... plus you'd need an LCD monitor of whatever size is convenient and a little keyboard. That'll weigh a lot less than these misnamed monster laptops, use standard parts so there's a viable upgrade path

    I agree that Shuttle SFFs are more upgradable, but they weigh much more and are not nearly as portable.

    A light dual-core Shuttle SFF like the G5 2000 Series weighs 3.2kg net and 4.8kg gross (other models weigh more). I'll assume "gross" weight includes disk, CPU, etc. Shuttle's light 17" semi-portable LCD (has a handle) weighs 4.3kg net and 6.4kg gross (the better model weighs more). I'll assume the gross weight includes the LCD's power brick. Not including keyboard/mouse and speakers, that's 11.2kg (24.7 lbs) for a light Shuttle SFF with 17" LCD that (together) are only semi-portable (you need a good carrying bag).

    A Dell XPS M2010 weighs a total of 20.8 lbs (9.4 kg), but that includes its 20.1" LCD, full-size detachable keyboard, 8 speakers w/subwoofer, and AC adapter. Sure, it has less upgrade options than a Shuttle SFF. But (unlike most laptops) the Dell monster does have two hard drive bays with RAID support, a much larger (20.1") built-in widescreen LCD, and is much more portable than the Shuttle bundle. For my money, I'd take a Shuttle but I'd rarely transport it. However, it's not comparable to Dell's monster portable.

    these misnamed monster laptops

    "Laptop" is just a traditional name we have used for foldable portable computers. I like to call the Dell XPS M2010 a "briefcase computer," but more people understand what you mean if you call it a big fuckin' laptop.

    --
    TO START
    PRESS ANY KEY

    Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

  53. Maybe they are just MORE portable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has anyone bothered to see the Kensington port replicators that come with the 'ultra-portable' DELL light weight laptops?
    You have to physically connect 4 cables to the thing: power, USB, monitor (oh just try the USB video... it is GRRREAT*sarcasm*), DVD reader...
    At least with this one you probably don't have as much to attach and detach!
    I don't know... i didn't rtfa... i'm just ranting! :)

  54. The Osborne 1 by HBP@home · · Score: 1
    I don't know if anyone has mentioned or remembered The Osborne 1 portable computer.
    I fondly remembered how cool it was that you could actually carry a computer home from work.

    I am getting old.
    http://oldcomputers.net/osborne.html

    1. Re:The Osborne 1 by mshurpik · · Score: 1

      I had a Panasonic PC-Sr. Partner in the 1980's. Same concept, a "luggable laptop." If you wanted to switch from the office to the living room, or take it to Grandma's house, it was a lot more friendly than hauling a rig, monitor, and cables. Overall it was an excellent computer, max ram, two disk drives, CGA adapter, monitor, printer, and keyboard in one box. Hell, I almost forgot about the printer, it was just a thermal, but there if you needed it. This luggable packed a punch.

      Modern day, maybe the "luggable" concept will have an impact in the lanparty market, but most people, it seems, want an actual laptop, wireless, good batteries, ultimate convenience. Although at 20 lbs. maybe it will do better than that; my Sr. Partner was 35 lbs.

      http://386page.com/systems/Panasonic/sr-partner/sr partner.php

  55. Re:PowerBooks (Wow, someone DOES need a hug...) by Neil+K. · · Score: 1

    Ok. So it works for you. Great. No, no sarcasm here, that's really great. I'm even happy for you.

    But did you really need a whole 5 paragraph essay to say that? "It works for me." 4 words. Barely a complete sentence. Gets the point across though.

    Thanks for your explaination though. And no, not everyone needs MS Office, Final Cut Pro, iLife, Doom 3, MySQL, C++, and a multitude of other applications. Mostly they just need one or two of the above.

  56. Portable? Really? by AndreiK · · Score: 1

    My distinction between laptops and desktops is that one can be carried, and one cannot. My desktop cannot be carried. If you make a 20 pound computer with a handle, there is no way that's blurring the line - it's still in the desktop area firmly by my standards.

  57. Re:PowerBooks by Phroggy · · Score: 1

    I do the same with my 12" iBook, and it's great - at home I set it on the desk and plug everything in, then I unplug everything and stuff it in a backpack. Most of the time when I'm away from home, I don't need to do anything that would be difficult on a 12" screen, and the small size is much more convenient to haul around.

    There are small PC laptops available, of course, but apparently most people haven't seen them, because I very frequently get comments on how small my laptop is (plus it's white and has a glowing Apple logo on the back, so that tends to stand out too).

    The only downside is, my iBook isn't quick. :-( I'm hoping Apple figures out how to make a 13" MacBook Pro; the new MacBooks look awesome but I want decent video (mostly because of Quartz 2D Extreme which should be working in Mac OS X 10.5).

    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  58. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by Tom · · Score: 1

    You want either a Mac Mini, or an USB drive.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  59. How about not replacing the desktop? by dushkin · · Score: 1

    I was looking for some portable device to, well, be portable. I realized that I was pretty much the only one who's actually interested in those. 17-inch laptops are fugly and simply stupid, they lose the point of being a PORTABLE computer. The battery life generally tends to be around one hour at max on those things, to power their 1.000.000 RPM harddrives and their 40 GHz octa-core processors. Please kill me.

    --
    o hai
  60. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by loic_2003 · · Score: 1

    Mac mini?

  61. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by buddyglass · · Score: 1

    Neither's exactly right. The mini isn't designed to be portable, so there's no docking interface. It's also bigger and heavier than some ultra-ligth laptops, and it has fans. Because it's not designed to be portable, the ergonomics aren't 360 degrees. Turn the thing upside down and that's obvious. I was imagining something like this, but without the display, keyboard, touchpad and battery. It weighs 2.2lb with all that stuff, so fiture maybe 1.5lb without.

    A USB drive would work, except that the USB interface somewhat nukes the drive's performance and requires additional cpu usage to manage the communication. A portable Raptor-X with FireWire 800 would be nice. The issue there is that if I'm going to have a single OS installation running on multiple hardware profiles, the OS had better have support for it. Another poster indicatd Windows does. If that's true, then the "really fast portable hard drive" solution migt just work. All that's missing is a smallish desktop case with a nice "slot" interface for the drive, so I wouldn't have to fool with cables. I'm imagining something similar to the old "slot" interface used for 8-track tapes.

  62. And thus returns the era of the luggable by ripcrd · · Score: 1

    At least 20 lbs., possibly as much as 40 or 50, the Kaypro that I remember seeing in a magazine was also called a portable, but it is what we today call a luggable. It was as big as a suitcase. It is in a shape that can be carried and it has a handle, but you don't want it on your lap.

    My newest desktop PC has a handle built in to the case and it is only 30 lbs. or so, but it is definitely not a portable.

    --
    --Somewhere there is a village missing an idiot.
  63. Phun toyz by billcopc · · Score: 1

    Okay this post is completely pointless and will probably sound like an infomercial, but the staff got a sneak peek of these just weeks ago and I can tell you that we all wanted one of these babies, if only they'd deduct them off our payroll in instalments :)

    It's such a weird beast due to its size, but from what I saw it is rather well designed with the handle and all. The wireless dockable keyboard and mouse are just so sexy. I'm not privy to any information beyond my tech support duties, but it's a safe guess that they had the newly-annexed Alienware folks involved in this project. Now I'm not a Dell fanboi in any way, they just give me money every two weeks which goes to the local OEM supplier in my neverending quest for more power, but if Dell made a Billco-approved XPS with 8-drive RAID-0 and quad-dualcore-opteron sweetness I just might kiss someone's ass for a staff discount :)

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  64. Ah, the Nostalgia! by DoctorPepper · · Score: 2, Funny

    Reminds me of my TRS-80 Model 4P I used to lug back and forth to work, back in the mid-80's.

    Except it's probably a billion times faster, has way more colors (the Model 4P just had green), and boots slower! ;-)

    --

    No matter where you go... there you are.
  65. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by cr0sh · · Score: 1

    More or less, as others have commented, such machines exist today. What is interesting, though I have never found a web page on them, and none are available on eBay, is that in the early 1990's there was a 286 or 386 PC that was pretty much the same thing, and the company that made it (can't remember their name) called it the "Brick PC". It was very small for a "full power" (of the time) PC, and it had all the needed ports (serial, parallel, video, etc). It was smaller than the laptops of the time, slightly bigger than a Mac Mini today. They must not have sold many, though, as I have yet to see one pop up on eBay, yet I see Altairs, Sols, and IMSAIs all the time (granted, all of these machines probably sold more copies than the Brick PC)...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  66. Re:if only it were blurred in a different directio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Panasonic has exactly what you describe, called the Toughbook CF-07. It's a bit out of date, though, with only a Pentium 3 and 128 megs of RAM. You could probably build one with a mini ITX motherboard, or get a Mac Mini as others have suggested.

  67. Your wishes..... by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    ... are our command:

    http://www.cappuccinopc.com/cappuccinoez3.asp

    Sincerly /.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.