I'm not sure how you "just get lucky" making 1.3 million selling WoW gear on ebay. Was he the guy who got three Mighty Swords of Slaying Every Fucking Thing It Touches as the 0.0000000001% drop from a basilisk or something? If not, then it sounds like he actually, you know, worked hard and stuff.
> Market forces, water being wet, they have their appropriate uses, but not in MMORPG + RMT.
oh, market forces have their appropriate uses do they? I'm glad you're big enough to admit that.
That's like saying gravity has an appropriate uses.
Your anger/displeasure at this guy is misdirected. If you want to stop goldfarming, talk to Blizzard. They're the only ones who can effect the changes you want. When there is either no demand or no supply because of whatever changes they make to the game, then that will be the time when goldfarmers stop.
Some people apparently LIKE goldfarmers. If everyone hated them, they wouldn't be there. Apparently Blizzard realizes this too.
> Maybe you don't understand that RMT destroys the longevity of a game. blah blah blah. It's not fair.
I understand that you're angry with market forces, but you might as well be mad at water for being wet. Where there is a demand there will be a supply.
Sorry, I've never been an international student in Japan, so those were the only places I had for comparison. Perhaps you were a student in Japan for some time and have some anecdotes and/or wisdom you'd like to share with the rest of the class?
Sure, maybe it was legally wrong, but I don't have any moral issues with it. It's a victimless crime. It's not even something he had to be in Japan to do. He wasn't stealing anyones job, and the only reason it's even a crime is an accident of where politicians decided to draw the line on taxation of internet sales. Plenty of international students do far worse every day by taking jobs from citizens in coffee shops and retail stores, and yet no one bothers prosecuting them. At least, not in the US, dunno what it's like in Japan. My guess is that the only reason anyone cares is because the Japanese gov't wants a taste.
Get off your high horse. I've been an international student in both France and Canada and foreign students working under the table was commonplace. I'd guess that more than half of us had jobs that were technically illegal, because a TA salary only goes so far.
Of course, we did it at cafes and didn't make $1.3M, which is the only reason this guy got noticed.
ok, how many millions did you [i]perhaps[/i] make in college?
The bottom line is he made a buttload of money, the vast majority of which is somewhere in China and therefore likely untouchable. You can call him an 'idiot' all damn day, but it sounds an awful lot like sour grapes from where I sit.
Oh please. You make it sound like the guy was running drugs for the Purple Gang. He took employment while overseas without a work permit. On the 'criminal' index that's up there with jaywalking and creating a public nuisance. He's not even doing what the laws were meant to prevent - aliens taking jobs away from residents - so I fail to see how it's morally wrong at all.
You can't deport someone without arresting them first. Deportation is the next logical step, since it sounds like this guy has no defense. There's really not much else they can do to him.
Well, at least that would be true if Japan has the same laws as the US. As an American, I'm not really capable of imagining places that aren't America, so I just pretend that everywhere that isn't America is just more America except people talk funny.
The expensive stuff is the private office. Dual monitors are actually a pretty soft sell. Chairs are pretty easy, because you just wave back pain and ergonomic studies around, and no company wants to be exposed to the liability of a disability claim. But office space is an expensive, recurring cost.
there are no decent AIs for Go. Programming an artificial opponent for go is far, far more complex than chess because the possible number of moves is so much greater.
that's not a study. It's some expert opinion and a few anecdotes. I'm not disagreeing, I'm a huge proponent of telecommuting, but that article lacks some hard numbers.
prefereably in a mainstream publication showing that, in fact, private offices and Aeron chairs are in fact cost-efective. If you can show this to management, you oughta be good to go. Showing them an article by Joel and saying "but... but... my concentration!" probably isn't gonna do it.
I'm still dubious. I mean, yeah, sure, I'd much rather have a nice quiet office, an aeron and the fastest desktop available connected to dual 21" monitors. Who wouldn't? But does anyone actually have some sort of operational study showing that it does, in fact, increase productivity [i]that[/i] much? Joel makes a good case, but most of it is simply appeals to our programmer instincts, and has little to do with fact.
> To fundamentally change human society won't solve all our problems, but will solve some of the deeply ingraned issues, inequalities and balance of powers that are prerequisites for the existing system to function.
And it'll cause other, unexpected problems. The devil is in the details, and I view the sort of grand, sweeping changes you're talking about as simply blue-sky "what-if" stuff, because you cannot foresee the problems that will occur.
On one hand, you have a lot of vague talk about deliberately restructuring human society to scale back and become more "equitable" (and who gets to decide what that means, anyway?) and less wasteful, all according to some master plan that some grand world council would get together and decide on.
On the other hand, we have a very clear, definable problem and we are attempting to solve it using the tools at our disposal.
I know which one I'd trust to not be a titanic clusterfuck.
> The alternative, using existing renewable technology and contraction and convergence carbon rationing, would also solve the problem, but require large scale social and economic changes as well. The end of cheap flights and long distance mass-transport, more localized communities and production, more decentralized power generation, organic food and less exploitation of third world resources by first world countries.
This always irritates me. For whatever reason, the world has evolved to a particular state with particular problems. Saying "let's fundamentally change human society, then our problems will vanish" isn't a solution at all, it's a worthless pipe dream.
No one is (I hope) arguing that lots of different software is good to have. The article was about the fact that the UI presented 15 different ways to turn your laptop off, and made the argument that this is a bad thing.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm not sure how you "just get lucky" making 1.3 million selling WoW gear on ebay. Was he the guy who got three Mighty Swords of Slaying Every Fucking Thing It Touches as the 0.0000000001% drop from a basilisk or something? If not, then it sounds like he actually, you know, worked hard and stuff.
> Market forces, water being wet, they have their appropriate uses, but not in MMORPG + RMT.
oh, market forces have their appropriate uses do they? I'm glad you're big enough to admit that.
That's like saying gravity has an appropriate uses.
Your anger/displeasure at this guy is misdirected. If you want to stop goldfarming, talk to Blizzard. They're the only ones who can effect the changes you want. When there is either no demand or no supply because of whatever changes they make to the game, then that will be the time when goldfarmers stop.
Some people apparently LIKE goldfarmers. If everyone hated them, they wouldn't be there. Apparently Blizzard realizes this too.
> But paying for "virtual stuff" in a virtual world?! That's a waste of money and time.
You can say the same thing for all nonessential items, such as movies, music and nice clothes.
> Maybe you don't understand that RMT destroys the longevity of a game. blah blah blah. It's not fair.
I understand that you're angry with market forces, but you might as well be mad at water for being wet. Where there is a demand there will be a supply.
Sorry, I've never been an international student in Japan, so those were the only places I had for comparison. Perhaps you were a student in Japan for some time and have some anecdotes and/or wisdom you'd like to share with the rest of the class?
Sure, maybe it was legally wrong, but I don't have any moral issues with it. It's a victimless crime. It's not even something he had to be in Japan to do. He wasn't stealing anyones job, and the only reason it's even a crime is an accident of where politicians decided to draw the line on taxation of internet sales. Plenty of international students do far worse every day by taking jobs from citizens in coffee shops and retail stores, and yet no one bothers prosecuting them. At least, not in the US, dunno what it's like in Japan. My guess is that the only reason anyone cares is because the Japanese gov't wants a taste.
Get off your high horse. I've been an international student in both France and Canada and foreign students working under the table was commonplace. I'd guess that more than half of us had jobs that were technically illegal, because a TA salary only goes so far.
Of course, we did it at cafes and didn't make $1.3M, which is the only reason this guy got noticed.
ok, how many millions did you [i]perhaps[/i] make in college?
The bottom line is he made a buttload of money, the vast majority of which is somewhere in China and therefore likely untouchable. You can call him an 'idiot' all damn day, but it sounds an awful lot like sour grapes from where I sit.
> No, imprisonment for tax evasion is the next logical step.
Depends on what the extradition treaties are like. I doubt he'll face any actual criminal charges. Fine? Maybe. Jail time? I really doubt it.
Oh please. You make it sound like the guy was running drugs for the Purple Gang. He took employment while overseas without a work permit. On the 'criminal' index that's up there with jaywalking and creating a public nuisance. He's not even doing what the laws were meant to prevent - aliens taking jobs away from residents - so I fail to see how it's morally wrong at all.
You can't deport someone without arresting them first. Deportation is the next logical step, since it sounds like this guy has no defense. There's really not much else they can do to him.
Well, at least that would be true if Japan has the same laws as the US. As an American, I'm not really capable of imagining places that aren't America, so I just pretend that everywhere that isn't America is just more America except people talk funny.
Idiot? He made $1.3M selling stuff on the internet while still in college. How many millions did -you- make in college?
The expensive stuff is the private office. Dual monitors are actually a pretty soft sell. Chairs are pretty easy, because you just wave back pain and ergonomic studies around, and no company wants to be exposed to the liability of a disability claim. But office space is an expensive, recurring cost.
his emphasis
Ok, there's two, warring stereotypes here. First:
Did anyone else picture that being posted by Sir Fauntleroy Etherbottom III directly after his monocle flew right off into the crumpets?
"I dare say, this Shuttleworth fellow is the worst kind of bounder. This sort of thing is just not done!"
Second:
"Stuff like what Mark did"
Ok, Cletus, simmer down! Y'know cousin Mark ain't been right lately, not since his ol' smell hound done up and runned off.
there are no decent AIs for Go. Programming an artificial opponent for go is far, far more complex than chess because the possible number of moves is so much greater.
> request to cease and desist from all past, present and future development
Hopefully google will let the developers use the google time machine to go back and not work on it.
awesome, thanks for the links. THIS is what I'm talking about.
that's not a study. It's some expert opinion and a few anecdotes. I'm not disagreeing, I'm a huge proponent of telecommuting, but that article lacks some hard numbers.
If someone at Sony is rude to an old lady in an elevator, it's headline news on Slashdot.
prefereably in a mainstream publication showing that, in fact, private offices and Aeron chairs are in fact cost-efective. If you can show this to management, you oughta be good to go. Showing them an article by Joel and saying "but ... but ... my concentration!" probably isn't gonna do it.
I'm still dubious. I mean, yeah, sure, I'd much rather have a nice quiet office, an aeron and the fastest desktop available connected to dual 21" monitors. Who wouldn't? But does anyone actually have some sort of operational study showing that it does, in fact, increase productivity [i]that[/i] much? Joel makes a good case, but most of it is simply appeals to our programmer instincts, and has little to do with fact.
Well ok then. That seems like a needlessly narrow definition of 'socializing,' but ok, that's your call.
> To fundamentally change human society won't solve all our problems, but will solve some of the deeply ingraned issues, inequalities and balance of powers that are prerequisites for the existing system to function.
And it'll cause other, unexpected problems. The devil is in the details, and I view the sort of grand, sweeping changes you're talking about as simply blue-sky "what-if" stuff, because you cannot foresee the problems that will occur.
On one hand, you have a lot of vague talk about deliberately restructuring human society to scale back and become more "equitable" (and who gets to decide what that means, anyway?) and less wasteful, all according to some master plan that some grand world council would get together and decide on.
On the other hand, we have a very clear, definable problem and we are attempting to solve it using the tools at our disposal.
I know which one I'd trust to not be a titanic clusterfuck.
> The alternative, using existing renewable technology and contraction and convergence carbon rationing, would also solve the problem, but require large scale social and economic changes as well. The end of cheap flights and long distance mass-transport, more localized communities and production, more decentralized power generation, organic food and less exploitation of third world resources by first world countries.
This always irritates me. For whatever reason, the world has evolved to a particular state with particular problems. Saying "let's fundamentally change human society, then our problems will vanish" isn't a solution at all, it's a worthless pipe dream.
Joel is a good writer, but has a knack for avoiding the thorny details.
No one is (I hope) arguing that lots of different software is good to have. The article was about the fact that the UI presented 15 different ways to turn your laptop off, and made the argument that this is a bad thing.