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Student Makes a Million Online, Gets Deported
Via Kotaku, a story at the Mainichi daily news about an enterprising exchange student that got himself deported. Wang Yue Si, a Chinese student who went to Japan on a student visa, found himself in need of some spending money. Since he was a gamer, he decided to make some cash by selling virtual items online. He was so successful, the cops noticed. From the article: "He started selling items such as weapons and currency for online games through an Internet auction site in April this year, without obtaining the appropriate residency status. Wang, living in Kumamoto, has admitted that he sold the virtual goods for about 6 million yen ($US 1.3 Million), in violation of the Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Law. A bank worker became suspicious when Wang regularly sent money back home to China and alerted police in August, prompting Kumamoto police officers to investigate the student."
Summary says "6 million yen or $1.3m" .. but 6m yen is only about 50k dollars (1 yen is slightly less then 1 cent in value) .. so .. which is it?
I'm fairly certain they have immigration lawyers in Japan. Something tells me he was more than aware he couldn't make money while there. Not exactly like Japan is a dictatorship with harsh penalties for bizarre crimes, either. Poor baby.
Okay, deportation is a new angle, but there always seem to be problems when people sell in-game items. The stories keep coming...
I'd love to see a broad treatment of law-meets-games-meets-money from someone who actually understands the issues involved. I'm tangentially interested in all those things but I don't really have enough background to put these sorts of things into perspective.
Anyone?
do not fuck with gamers in Japan. They make the Koreans look like pussycats.
Four friends are playing a game of Monopoly. One guest turns to the other guest and offers to sell Park Place for $10 real dollars. You're the host, what would you do? That's right, tell the cheating bastard to go home.
How we know is more important than what we know.
The news article does not mention anything about the student being deported.
Clever and witty sig.
Seeing how cutthroat the whole gold and itemfarming buisness is, to be able earn $1m+ from sales, he must have been the frontman of aa rather large gang of sweatshop farmers. Which would be perfectly fine as a violation of his status.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Nothing to see here folks. He violated the terms of his visa, and thus got deported. The only thing unusual was his buisness.
Move along. Move along.
If you are on a student visa, you're not supposed to be making money by working, you're supposed to be studying. no I know there are ways around this, but with most of them, if you get caught, you go home.
[what?]
Oh you mean physically hung. Then its an offcolor joke if you look at it that way. I'm talking his name.
God spoke to me.
They never cease to amaze me. I don't blame the opportunist quite as much as I blame the addicts.
Gambling, porn, online gaming... let's add drugs to the list too. It's all a waste of money. Porn is free as far as I'm concerned, gambling is often too risky the way some addicts play, and drugs waste in an obvious way. But paying for "virtual stuff" in a virtual world?! That's a waste of money and time.
It's not like I don't understand it -- I recall calling in sick to work more than once so I could finish a level of X-Wing versus Tie Fighter... the pay check started to reflect my obsession and I made corrections. I wish other people could learn that lesson.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=6+million+yen +in+USD&btnG=Google+Search
*sheesh*
The article says: "A university student from China has been arrested for illegally engaging in business activities outside the restrictions of his student visa, police said." Arrested, not deported.
Of course it's an English summary of a Japanese original. Does anyone here read Japanese well enough to check the original source?
About the discrepancy in the money amounts mentioned in another reply: 6 million yen is what the student has admitted. That's nowhere near $1 million. Police suspect his total profit is 100 million yen, which is near enough $1 million.
You're the host, what would you do?
House Rules: The house takes a 50% cut of all real money transactions that affect game play.
If Chon Wang wants to sell Park Place to Princess Pei Pei for $10, someone's going to have to fork $5 over to me.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I'm in the wrong business.
Personally, I find it repugnant that banks report "suspicious" activities on their customers in many countries. For example, in the past, if you played with more than $10K at a time, US bank drones filed a report on you. Some years ago, that threshold changed to $3K -- loan to family member, car downpayment, any reasonable major purchase (PS3 plus games?!) - now requires reporting YOU to federal authorities as being suspicious. Interestingly, many banks file a report for any amount $1K in cash.
Dealing with a little cash is not exclusive only to the terrorists who sell drugs to babies. Nor is having a few thousand dollars in bank transfers solely the realm of pedophile rapists who conduct school shootings.
This guy got busted by a pro-active bank teller who was trained to believe everything you do is suspicious. All the while, in the US, they look you in the eye and smile like nothing is wrong, because they are generally held to strict secrecy by law. US bank tellers watch your every move and transaction, report your private monetary activities to federal law enforcement without you knowing it, then trot out the dog-n-pony show about some gold-farmer-type guy and we are supposed to believe that justifies our lack of privacy.
Well sort of
I knew someone at uni who graduated in my year who became a millionaire in the last six months by hosting a web based service on the uni servers that had tens of thousands of users and got bought for over a million.
He broke so many uni network rules that the uni could of kicked him out. However they made it quite clear that they liked to have a few rich allumni about the place, and brushed it under the carpet.
Had he just broken the rules and not got rich I'm sure the story would have been different.
sure, he was just working illegally to fund his studies. Lets ignore the fact that he is a gold farmer, it seems like someone really didnt need 1.2 million dollars to fund his studies though.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Foreign student breaks law, gets deported.
That's it. The rest is minutae.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Many/most countries with restrictive visas (eg. student/tourist visas) would charge/deport someone for working without suitable work permits. I know people who have been blacklisted from USA (never allowed to even land in transit in USA) for overstaying a visa by one day.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
where the heck did that come from? Mod parent down as a racist loser. Or have you got some references/ stats to back up your claim that it is typical for Japanese bank workers to pick on foreigners?
If he was doing that in the U.S., Donald Trump would be driving him around in limo saying that we needed more entrepreneurs like him.
Apparently they are claiming he illegally made money in Japan. Since the game was online, he could have made the same money in his home country.
.. is that illegal? Of course not. What if you business calls you for some advice while on vacation? Are you allowed to give it? Obviously you are or should be (if not, it's a retarded law).
Think of it this way, if you own a business in one country and that business continues to make money while you are on a tourist or student training visa (a visa that does not authorize you to engage in employment in the country you are visiting) in another
I don't see how he's in violation of his visa terms, considering that he could have been in China and done the same thing since it was all done online and not as part of work for some company. That is, it's not like he "stole" a local's job.
Unless selling virtual items for money is illegal, Japan is dumb and wrong for deporting him.
This guy sounds like a true entrepreneur. Instead of deporting him, how about hiring him?
Just a thought.
And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
Who cares that the bank teller alerted authorities, how the hell can WE make 1.3million selling things online - good lord.
I know SOME small amounts of money can be made but 1.3million? Where do I sign please?
Go to Google and enter "convert 6,300,000 yen to dollars".
The answer:
6,300,000 Japanese yen = 54,286.9453 U.S. dollars
Who's smoking what?
Insert witty sig here.
Is it? I suspect that Japan isn't the only country where money laundering is something the police takes an interest in. If someone on a student visa (who normally wouldn't have an income) transfers over $1 million, it's reasonable to be suspicious. In all likelyhood he committed tax fraud, btw.
Now, reasonable does not mean it's *worth* your or my money. Certainly not mine. But for someone already throwing out dozens of dollars each month, who has the money to spend, and is willing to throw out an extra few to do something that they think is fun without the effort of programming/finding/whatevering it themselves.....I'm not sure that's so much weirder than paying $14 for a two-hour movie and a little bag of buttered grain, that I could obtain for myself with a walk to the library and a small garden.
He made $1.3M selling NON-stuff.
How good of a salesman does it take to convince people to fork a million dollars over a period of a couple months, in exchange for a couple bits on a computer? Do you even have an idea of what that kind of talent is worth?
You're jealous.
You're bitter.
You wish you thought of it first.
You wish you had the balls and the skills required to pull it off.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
I would imagine that $1.3m will go a long way in China, he probably doesn't need that student status anymore anyway.
...How the HELL is he making all that money, and where can I get in on this?
Anyone can "stand up for what they believe", but it takes a very brave individual to change what they believe. - Loundry
Who buys these things?
Kill em and take their stuff. You must not play enough rpgs... :D
you have a working visa, you are allowed to work, for the part your visa is allowed. You have a student visa, you study, you don't make $1million. If they catch you, you are out. Plus he might get a 1 or 10 year ban on returning to Japan.
Seriously, if you care about living in Japan, don't fuck with the officials, they are more Xenophobic than any other country I could imagine.
[thought I love living in Japan, its always about the people you meet]
"Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
While I'm sure the bank may have felt he was a criminal getting money in some nefarious way, once they found out what he was really doing they should have just left him alone.
The good news is that he should be able to continue to pursue his profession just as well from China. Well, that is minus the 20Mbs typical broadband in Japan -- USA DSL and Cable modem users eat your heart out.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Maybe because of their recent hardline communist past, they can do the same thing over and over again without getting bored.
we cant farm/grind like chinese do in wow. hell no.
Read radical news here
Most of these laws are designed to prevent students / non-immigrants from stealing jobs from the locals and driving down wages. This guy wasn't messing with the local job market - he could have made the same money in any city in China. Would it have been any diferent if he had made money in the stock market?
It's a student visa. He's there to learn, and it's made very clear that you're not to hold a job of any kind with that particular immigration status. If he wanted to study and make money, he should have gotten a different visa.
These rules exist for a reason. They don't want people abusing study rights (because the visa is easier, cheaper, and less regulated--it's also tax free in most countries) to hide employment from the authorities. You don't have employment status in the country, period. You don't get to make money. That's how it works.
"Virtual Enterprise" trick will work only if you receive money in the country where it's registered. So if you have a nice little company in Germany that sells virtual stuff in US, you have to bill your customers from Germany, and receive your funds there.
And if you are in US on tourist visa, you can't keep selling your virtual "German made" stuff on a regular basis, as then you are working in US, and either need to have a local branch or work visa.
Japan did a normal thing in this case -- you don't have work permit, yet regularly cash in cheques? Goodbye!
Otherwise anyone could work as a salesman without any visa, claiming that goods were "made in another country".
Hyperom.com
He 'earned' the money in an internet game - a virtual reality, so why pay taxes in Japan?
It's not work done in *this world*, it is imaginary objects sold to imaginary characters in a game - how is that taxable?
Money laundering is where you make illegally gotten money out to be from a legitimate source (e.g. gambling winnings). I'm not sure what he was laundering, exactly, given that he was sending it back to China.
However, it's reasonably clear that if they knew he was on a student visa, he shouldn't have any money to send home, so it's not surprising he got caught. The grandparent may have put it in a rather trollish way, but what I understand is that the Japanese are VERY strict about following rules like this, especially the immigration rules.
They look on Chinese, or anyone else--even Americans--who have overstayed or contravened their visas the way Americans, especially those in the southwest, look upon Mexican immigrants.
He didn't get it taken away.
You can live real well with that kind of money in China, so I don't think he has many regrets.
"6 million yen ($US 1.3 Million)"
:)
In Tokyo, I spend about 1000-1500 yen on lunch every day. Given this new exchange rate, that means my lunch today will cost between $216.66 and $324.99 USD! Of course, now I'll be rich when I go back home to the states
I am just curious what he was doing and selling to make that much money. In another article, in Japanese, it mentioned he did all of this in 6 or so months. I have known people who sell stuff for online games, but to make that much income inthat short of time, doing what?
So all we need is a mmorpg in the spanish language?
He made the money on the internet auctions, not being hired by any japanese company, selling virtual goods, dammit!
... you got the drift.
Which brings some interesting implications and questions....
Can I, being, say, Irish citizen on vacations in USA:
-Start an auction on ebay
-answer my company emails or ssh to my work to do some programming (I make money while in US)
-buy/sell my stocks over the internet
We human beings just cannot stand to see other people succeed and make money. Its such a crabby mentality (i.e. if one crab tries to escape from the bowl, others will pull him down). They should felicitate his idea and the novelty of his scheme. At least what he did wasn't illegal in terms of his source of income. I have seen students doing bad things for money. what this chap did was harmless.
Was he selling these items primarily to people in Japan?
If you're in Japan, selling stuff to customers in Japan, and putting the money into a bank account in Japan, then I can understand if the Japanese authorities would get involved. The /. story makes it sound as though he got deported for being a Chinese student in Japan who just happened to also be running a foreign business.
http://outcampaign.org/
You're jealous.
You're bitter.
You wish you thought of it first.
You wish you had the balls and the skills required to pull it off.
Or maybe he just likes being able to look at himself in the mirror. Not everyone is sufficiently devoid of ethics and conscience to be a salesman, lawyer, or gold-seller.
The average person in China makes about $100 per month. Affluent middle class workers (example computer degree/job) can make up to $500 per month. $1.3 million will last a LONG time back in China.
apple currency widget rates last updated on 11/24
150 million yen = $1,294,950
or 989,342 euros
or 1,468,213 $Canadian
or 1,663,818 $Australian
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Nah, they've (The Japanese) just seen the controversy surrounding selling the same kind of virtua-trinks in other countries, and so are somewhat stressed about not wanting to appear worse than anyone abroad; especially the U.S. [--So they had to build up anew in regards to industry, etc.; wouldn't you grow vigilant if you were in the same sit., and to some extent stay that way?]
-I think this is a perpetual psychological lock they've been in since, *cough*, the bombs fell, and I doubt that will ever change.
Can't you see at least some kind of pattern?
-No, I don't imply "aping" primarily, just that they've obviously got a pretty strong feeling of order of ethics, in their peculiar way. (Which "is good," somehow.)
A horse can't be sick, you know, even if he wants to.
So, it's now unethical to give people what they want and take money in return?
You make it sound like he's the trifecta evil incarnate: By day he smacks starving African children around, rampages through Tokyo bi-daily, and then pisses in public swimming pools. By night, when he has time for a break, he curls up next to a cozy immolated Christian and snacks on candied babies, and then...he...sells virtual items online?!?!?!!!! *gasp* Why, you'd expect that someone so evil wouldn't sleep so well, except perhaps, by the comforting warm glow of a burning Pope.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Do you think he would have been deported? Or do yu think he would have been given a "Young Capitalist Medal"?
When my Karma level reaches 0 I feel in piece with the Universe
Let me guess, you think dollars, pounds, yen etc. are 'real' don't you?
No one can honestly believe he did all of this alone, there simply is not enough time in the day to farm any MMO for enough virtual goods to make 1.3mill$ from without a sweatshop somewhere. This would make him a frontmen, and not a succesful student making a buck. And to all those crying 6mill yen ain't 1.3mill$ we know.. no need to tell us 20 times
Modify it by inflation and everything turns to shit; it's only $39,000 by inflation 3%, pretax. Then, one must remember that the guy is probably a front for a farming company; it's not actually his money to speak.
Isn't Japan a free economy? why do foreigners need a license to sell stuff?
By the way, if I was him, I would have done the job remotely, i.e. login in a Chinese server and do the job from there...
A bank worker became suspicious when Wang regularly sent money back home to China and alerted police
Wow, some people just can't mind their own business.
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
Good point. Hypothetical question - Would you pay for mod points?
Ha! Good point. Seems to me the moderators have gotten a little diggish.
Troll? Lazy moderator. Or, maybe a gamer that buys his goods.
If I'm going to be modded down, it should have been something more like 'Off-Topic' or 'Overrated'.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
Ching chang ching chong cheng chang ching tsing ching tang ching tsing ching chong, fuckface.
Who needs a thousand monkeys when you have racist twats like this.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
... you just have to be the village idiot yourself. Something tells _me_ with
USD 1.3 million he can virtually buy himself wherever he wants to. If he did
anything dumb at all then of course it was sending large amounts of the
money to China, though I am sure he is taking care of his family there.
Btw, talking of bizarre crimes, I find it more than bizarre that large corporation
can move across borders as they please, but if any individual decides to do this
they're a criminal. Enjoy the Global Plantation.
What I want to know is: what games, what items, and his techniques. Has someone written a HOW-TO?
According to xe.com, 6M yen is about $51600. Still a nice sum for a student, but not even near $1M.
According to TFA, the student is _suspected_ to have earned 150M yen, which translates to $1.29M. This is what the police suspect, and has not been admitted by the student in question nor has this claim been supported by any other evidence.
Editors, even though this is Slashdot please try to do your work. This isn't Digg.
This sig is intentionally left blank
What if I had a business back home, moved to Japan, and was still profiting from the business at home (perhaps while doing work online) while at the same time being a student overseas. I suppose the question of whether he was making a profit in Japan or not is the deciding factor. Perhaps if he had it go to a Japanaese bank that would have it considered as profit within that country?
What is that in Quatloos?
Yes, how dare he sell WoW gold to people who are eager to purchase it. What a monster.
ps: salesman, lawyer or gold-seller? grow up.
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
This should have been treated like warrants are IN WHAT COUNTRY?
Remember, law is very specific to the country that you are in, and not all are as generous to discovered crimes as you may be used to.
"I find it more than bizarre that large corporation can move across borders as they please, but if any individual decides to do this they're a criminal."
Due to lack of enforcement of immigration laws, this is changing too.
Where were you when the voynix came?
I presume he must have gotten a bank account in Japan, else what "bank worker" would have noticed anything in that country? Why didn't he use a bank account from his own country? The whole thing was internet-based commerce, what does it have to do with Japan, except that is where he happened to be at the time? If I went to Japan, even if it were on a student visa, wouldn't I just keep on using the same bank I'm using now? And if the transactions were online-- I'd probably use Paypal or something, and all the relevant services would have no idea I wasn't still in the USA. Of course, I'd probably need to think about paying US taxes on the profits...
He's loaded now. Can't he buy his way back into Japan?
I agree, of course he wasn't money laundering. However what I was trying to point out is that it's very reasonable to have the suspicion given the circumstances.
Troll? Wha? Yeah -- that was a silly mod.
Ah it's you, Krell :-). Yes, you do have a point there, with "sanctuary cities" openly defying federal
immigration laws.
The problem here is that a certain population is permitted to cross borders while another is not.
There are no sanctuary regulations for Americans trying their luck overseas. If American serfs want to
leave their fief, they have to have the permission of their future overseas liege lords and they're
obviously not interested as foreign immigration programs become tougher and tougher.
Check out Farmers Branch in the Dallas Metroplex area, though. They enacted laws to deny illegal aliens
housing and dole in FB and should their police dept apprehend some of them then these are held until
they are picked up by federal immigation officials. To find out more about that:
http://www.supportfarmersbranch.com/
Game: RagnarokOnline (JP Server)
Items: Stolen from hacked accounts.
Technique: Become a fence for Chinese malware authors who collect legitimate user's login IDs and passwords. Collect a few percentage for each stolen items sold.
If you aren't Japanese, I don't suggest you use a Japanese bank while staying in Japan. I know what it's like to work under the table there.
Having no other means to do so, I was forced to work in Japan to pay for college. I was certainly no millionare, but managed to make about 20,000 USD working 3 jobs and studying at my Japanese university within the space of two years. The Chinese exchange students had a social ring for finding jobs and paying off debts. The one thing everyone knew was: If you're Chinese and have a little bit of money, it's a big red flag for anyone who touches your files. Everyone knows that Japan is harsh towards its gaijin population. You need to be careful.
Use cash and have a Japanese friend make out money orders for you.