I must admit, I only use MINIX in a VM and then I only started it as a lark. I find it absolutely fascinating. It's really interesting. I've read a whole bunch of the documentation and the methods and reasons. I don't think I've ever really done that (in that way) for an OS before. Sure, I read *some* of the docs for a few things but with MINIX it was just compelling. *shrugs* I don't have any other way to describe it. Then again, I spent a long time in Sun world oh so many years ago.
I'm kind of new to this whole operating system thing, maybe 35 years or so of use, and I'm hoping you can help me out... What, exactly, are you calling 'monolithic' about HURD or systemd?
I thought you might appreciate it. I'd actually thought of you when I read it but never remembered to share the link with you. I've been reading your review, after all. I'm not entirely sure that the author is unbiased but, again, I'm not really sure that I'm qualified to opine. At least, no, I'm qualified to give an opinion but it shouldn't be weighted a whole lot. It's not self-depreciation. It's an astute awareness of my skill level and familiarity with the topic. *grins* It's also better to admit that I don't know and to then learn than it is to pretend I know and not have someone give good instruction or correction.
Strange, I know... It works for me, however. Hell, I don't even mind the Grammar Nazi trolls. They help me to improve my writing.;-)
The mobile devices all, pretty much, have cameras today. So, yes... There will still be cat videos. Eventually, they'll run on archaic hardware with software that nobody understands any longer, but they'll still host cat videos just fine until they all break, one by one, and nobody has the tools or the knowledge to repair or rebuild them.
I'd buy it for $40,000. I'd fire the whole lot of them and let the community run it up to and including which ads are acceptable. They don't get anything for running it. Once the purchase price is paid off and once the interest that I'd charge (say, 10% total - including any additional fees until it makes a profit) then the community can decide which non-profit gets any additional monies - after an emergency fund is setup and fully funded.
Not conspiratorial enough. This is Slashdot. There must be outrage! And conspiracy...
Didn't we just see about Texas judges who had dismissed a bunch of patent cases? I don't know if they were in the same district or not but they'd swept something like 160 of them off the board and just a few days before that was an article about another judge doing something similar, both were in Texas as I recall. I wonder if it's just East Texas?
Nah, I live in Maine. I go to to pidgin French territory in under a half-hour drive. Well, the actual journey is longer now, the border's a bit more difficult to cross. Well, not difficult, slower. I've picked up the language, to some extent, but it's been absolutely useless when I've gone to France. There are some similarities but it's damned confusing for a layman. I'm not a linguist.
However, if I remember properly, I think I got your humor.:D
Going by their judicial system, which was based on their beliefs -- not so much any more, truth and mercy did, indeed, equal justice. If one were able to admit their errors then the punitive response was lesser. Truth and mercy went hand in hand and justice was the result. That was the response that I was replying to. The rest is too subjective to determine accurately. We can not say, for example, that reincarnation is wrong. In fact, we can say that our atoms will one day (maybe) even be the parts of stars. We can't say, with any certainty, that the caste system is wrong - we can only equate it with our own ethics. Those are too subjective for me to opine on but I'd say that things like enabling lower castes to work and eat may be interpreted as merciful. Getting another shot at life may too be considered merciful and just.
You're a bit biased in your views and absolutely certain of your position. Whilst tempting to agree, I'm a bit more pragmatic.
If your mousetrap is good enough then you'll be able to pay the applicable patent fees. If your mousetrap is good enough, and it's soon enough, another mousetrap builder that comes along behind you will have to pay you for your investment.
SOMEPeople who choose Linux do it because they appreciate a quality OS, well built and put together with care. That's why we like Linux.
Not all of us. In fact, there are some things that I honestly feel are lesser quality than I can get with other operating systems. I use Linux because I like to tinker. I use Linux not because it is perfect or easy but because it is imperfect and can be made difficult. I like to learn, to poke, and to grow. I use it because I enjoy the freedoms and customization opportunities. I use it, not because of its quality, but because of its imperfections and those imperfections give me reasons to explore and play.
There are lots of inferior things in open source. There are lots of superior things in open source. I think your statement is too generic and overly broad. Oddly, I usually agree (almost entirely) with you. I've poked at distros that lacked quality and were not built with care. I stuck with them (often for quite a while) just to see if I could make it into something that worked for me. And yes, I include the distro with the kernel - nobody runs just the kernel.
Why has nobody written a tool to view the binary log? Just 'cause it's binary doesn't mean that it can't be done - does it? I'd think that someone would do this. Maybe I'm missing something here but this doesn't seem insurmountable. If I gotta do it myself then, well... You don't want that. I'll put Clippy in it, probably by accident. However, if this were a problem then I'd think someone would have resolved it. It's not like we don't already have tools to open, edit, and even change binary files - I'm sure there's a format that they're using to make them. Dunno it but I'm guessing there is. It seems that if this were a problem then someone would have proposed and created a solution. (And that is the Unix Way, by the way.)
What am I missing? I'm guessing I'm missing something because it seems fairly obvious to me and like I could probably spend a while doing some research and figure out how to parse those binary error logs even if it means some form of extraction must occur prior to parsing them. They make hex editors. It seems that one could create a plug-in that automagically formatted the data or even just write one with that included as its primary function?
On the SE sub AskUbuntu we had a person who wanted to get network status and needs to rely on systemd to do so, or so it seems - I couldn't find any other way to do so programmatically. They didn't want to actually poll for output but insisted (and restricted) that their script rely on an outputted signal rather than poll for a status. (Sorry, I'm not a great programmer so my verbiage may not be adequate.) Try as I might, I was unable to do so within the limits of a script.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this - I don't see this as a bad thing. I just do wonder if there may end up being limits in the future that actually impact customizations. As stated above, I don't dislike systemd - yet. I doesn't really impact me, much or at all. Eventually he allowed for polling. I did think about banging a quick app out in C that did the polling and then pushed it but that just seemed silly as his goal was to avoid compute cycles. I could have used the practice, anyhow.
No real point, I guess, except that there may come a time, in the future, where it's time to get out the pitchforks and torches. We've not yet reached that point, to my mind, but should probably keep a barrel of heated pine pitch and the fork tines properly sharpened. You know, just in case.
I administer a whole host of Linux boxes and some of them are servers. Of course, that's just a half-rack leased for my own use and my own, personal, systems. Honestly? I learned a few new commands. Meh... It hasn't hurt anything at my end. I don't stray too far from the roost though, so it's pretty much out of sight and out of mind for me.
Of equal importance is to note that this reply is from someone who spends the vast majority of their time in userland (though, almost certainly, with a terminal open and usually doing something via remote). Also important is to qualify the below by reducing the importance to consider that I'm not to be confused with a professional. Having said that...
Truth told, I've not noticed it helping anything that affects my use patterns. It hasn't hindered anything, either. I've had nary a problem. I kind of want to fit in and say how I hate it, how it's not the Unix Way, and that it's too bloated, too complex, and the ruination of all the distros I know and love. Actually? Meh... I'm not really impacted, in the least. I guess it makes the dev's live's easier (for the distro packagers, at least) and I tend to donate to a few of them so, by extension, I guess you could say that I'm getting a bit more (theoretically) bang for my buck?
Mostly, I just watch and see what's going to happen next. Someone did a huge, academic-style, write up on it. It took me a minute to dig it out of my browser history on a networked box (long story - I'm still not home) but I was able to find it for you. I think, I'm not sure, it may have been on Slashdot? Anyhow, if you've not seen this then this makes an EXCELLENT read:
In the end, I've concluded, I just doesn't seem to matter to me - yet. It doesn't really impact me. I'm sure that it does others but, for me, it just works. I want to hate it. I want to be in the cool crowd and rage against the evils of the domineering Red Hat and crew... I want to be enraged enough to key cars, throw bricks through windows, or at least post vile, spittle speckled, angry posts on the internet but it just hasn't bit me yet. Maybe when it does? I'll start my brick collection, just in case.
Ah, but grasshopper... The true path to the Unix Way is the realization that there is no one Unix Way. Sometimes you need brute force, for which you have a hammer. Then, at times, you need a Swiss Army Knife because there is no hammer. The true path lies in knowing which to apply and when to apply them.
Does it matter? If I want to delete sudo and ask, either help or not. Don't say, "Don't do that." Say, "You shouldn't do that, here is why, but this is how."
Yes, yes I do help support on a number of forums. The only exception I have is homework, I won't do obvious homework. If they ask for help, I'll send them in the right direction. I will not do it for them.
No, I do my killing with a firearm. I do my skinning with a knife. I also don't do my butchering in the kitchen. In fact, like firearms, knives are fine tools that can be misused. I carry a Victorinox. It's never killed anything. It has opened packages, cut cable, cut rope, carved wood, gutted fishies, and many more things. It has never killed anything.
I realize you're trolling or stupid but, well, somebody has to respond. I have a whole bunch of firearms that have never, not even when I wasn't looking, gone out and killed something. I have quite a few that will probably end up in prison for wanton paper slaughter, however. If you're paper, especially if you've a few circles on you, then you're quite likely in serious danger around those. If you're paper then you should probably hide or consider enacting laws for your own protection. They'll straight up murder the fuck right out of you and your family. They don't like paper, one bit.
The problem is, with a non-homogeneous society, there are fewer people like you and I who actually care about their community enough to do more than complain about it. The idea may work in parts of Europe. It probably won't work on a large scale in countries like the UK or the USA. It probably won't even work in Canada, America's Hat. (Oddly, it has a potential chance in Mexico, America's Underwear.)
Also, I have a house in Florida and I'm slowly going in that direction. They don't even touch the trash. They drive a special truck up beside it, it has arms that come out and grab the standardized bin, and it lifts it up and dumps it into the truck. I'd probably pay to drive that truck, never mind being paid to do it.
To take this horrid metaphor even further... It's cheaper for me to give you the money to go buy your owned damned bread than it is for me to repair the damage from you breaking into my house and stealing it and it's damned sure cheaper than me needing to hire goons to prevent it.
Additionally, I know exactly no one who's ever considered moving due to taxation - nobody with any wealth does. The noise about taxation seems to come from those who have no assets to tax. I don't know why they worry. I pay my taxes and have ample means of tax avoidance if I so desire. I don't mind my taxes, at all, but I do mind how they're spent.
Your money doesn't make much money in the Cayman Islands. You put some there, I suppose, if you want but there are better stores of value and far more productive stores. Instead, you put your money in slow growth and stable markets. Then you live off dividends and interest, quite handsomely too, and don't actually pay a whole lot of taxes. So long as your money is in the market, or goes unspent, you generally don't pay much in the way of taxes.
Slashdot Mirror
2016 - Year of HURD on the Desktop!
I must admit, I only use MINIX in a VM and then I only started it as a lark. I find it absolutely fascinating. It's really interesting. I've read a whole bunch of the documentation and the methods and reasons. I don't think I've ever really done that (in that way) for an OS before. Sure, I read *some* of the docs for a few things but with MINIX it was just compelling. *shrugs* I don't have any other way to describe it. Then again, I spent a long time in Sun world oh so many years ago.
Lemme tell ya... I have, indeed, played with HURD in a VM. Ain't nothing practical about it.
I'm kind of new to this whole operating system thing, maybe 35 years or so of use, and I'm hoping you can help me out... What, exactly, are you calling 'monolithic' about HURD or systemd?
I thought you might appreciate it. I'd actually thought of you when I read it but never remembered to share the link with you. I've been reading your review, after all. I'm not entirely sure that the author is unbiased but, again, I'm not really sure that I'm qualified to opine. At least, no, I'm qualified to give an opinion but it shouldn't be weighted a whole lot. It's not self-depreciation. It's an astute awareness of my skill level and familiarity with the topic. *grins* It's also better to admit that I don't know and to then learn than it is to pretend I know and not have someone give good instruction or correction.
Strange, I know... It works for me, however. Hell, I don't even mind the Grammar Nazi trolls. They help me to improve my writing. ;-)
The mobile devices all, pretty much, have cameras today. So, yes... There will still be cat videos. Eventually, they'll run on archaic hardware with software that nobody understands any longer, but they'll still host cat videos just fine until they all break, one by one, and nobody has the tools or the knowledge to repair or rebuild them.
Hmm... There's a novel in there, somewhere.
I'd buy it for $40,000. I'd fire the whole lot of them and let the community run it up to and including which ads are acceptable. They don't get anything for running it. Once the purchase price is paid off and once the interest that I'd charge (say, 10% total - including any additional fees until it makes a profit) then the community can decide which non-profit gets any additional monies - after an emergency fund is setup and fully funded.
Not conspiratorial enough. This is Slashdot. There must be outrage! And conspiracy...
Didn't we just see about Texas judges who had dismissed a bunch of patent cases? I don't know if they were in the same district or not but they'd swept something like 160 of them off the board and just a few days before that was an article about another judge doing something similar, both were in Texas as I recall. I wonder if it's just East Texas?
I used to drink... Heavily... Lemme just interject, for a moment, and say that gravity is a bastard.
Nah, I live in Maine. I go to to pidgin French territory in under a half-hour drive. Well, the actual journey is longer now, the border's a bit more difficult to cross. Well, not difficult, slower. I've picked up the language, to some extent, but it's been absolutely useless when I've gone to France. There are some similarities but it's damned confusing for a layman. I'm not a linguist.
However, if I remember properly, I think I got your humor. :D
Going by their judicial system, which was based on their beliefs -- not so much any more, truth and mercy did, indeed, equal justice. If one were able to admit their errors then the punitive response was lesser. Truth and mercy went hand in hand and justice was the result. That was the response that I was replying to. The rest is too subjective to determine accurately. We can not say, for example, that reincarnation is wrong. In fact, we can say that our atoms will one day (maybe) even be the parts of stars. We can't say, with any certainty, that the caste system is wrong - we can only equate it with our own ethics. Those are too subjective for me to opine on but I'd say that things like enabling lower castes to work and eat may be interpreted as merciful. Getting another shot at life may too be considered merciful and just.
You're a bit biased in your views and absolutely certain of your position. Whilst tempting to agree, I'm a bit more pragmatic.
You bitch about a straw man and then go right into a false dichotomy.
*munches on popcorn*
It's like watching the mentally challenged try to beat up a wall.
If your mousetrap is good enough then you'll be able to pay the applicable patent fees. If your mousetrap is good enough, and it's soon enough, another mousetrap builder that comes along behind you will have to pay you for your investment.
SOMEPeople who choose Linux do it because they appreciate a quality OS, well built and put together with care. That's why we like Linux.
Not all of us. In fact, there are some things that I honestly feel are lesser quality than I can get with other operating systems. I use Linux because I like to tinker. I use Linux not because it is perfect or easy but because it is imperfect and can be made difficult. I like to learn, to poke, and to grow. I use it because I enjoy the freedoms and customization opportunities. I use it, not because of its quality, but because of its imperfections and those imperfections give me reasons to explore and play.
There are lots of inferior things in open source. There are lots of superior things in open source. I think your statement is too generic and overly broad. Oddly, I usually agree (almost entirely) with you. I've poked at distros that lacked quality and were not built with care. I stuck with them (often for quite a while) just to see if I could make it into something that worked for me. And yes, I include the distro with the kernel - nobody runs just the kernel.
Why has nobody written a tool to view the binary log? Just 'cause it's binary doesn't mean that it can't be done - does it? I'd think that someone would do this. Maybe I'm missing something here but this doesn't seem insurmountable. If I gotta do it myself then, well... You don't want that. I'll put Clippy in it, probably by accident. However, if this were a problem then I'd think someone would have resolved it. It's not like we don't already have tools to open, edit, and even change binary files - I'm sure there's a format that they're using to make them. Dunno it but I'm guessing there is. It seems that if this were a problem then someone would have proposed and created a solution. (And that is the Unix Way, by the way.)
What am I missing? I'm guessing I'm missing something because it seems fairly obvious to me and like I could probably spend a while doing some research and figure out how to parse those binary error logs even if it means some form of extraction must occur prior to parsing them. They make hex editors. It seems that one could create a plug-in that automagically formatted the data or even just write one with that included as its primary function?
On the SE sub AskUbuntu we had a person who wanted to get network status and needs to rely on systemd to do so, or so it seems - I couldn't find any other way to do so programmatically. They didn't want to actually poll for output but insisted (and restricted) that their script rely on an outputted signal rather than poll for a status. (Sorry, I'm not a great programmer so my verbiage may not be adequate.) Try as I might, I was unable to do so within the limits of a script.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this - I don't see this as a bad thing. I just do wonder if there may end up being limits in the future that actually impact customizations. As stated above, I don't dislike systemd - yet. I doesn't really impact me, much or at all. Eventually he allowed for polling. I did think about banging a quick app out in C that did the polling and then pushed it but that just seemed silly as his goal was to avoid compute cycles. I could have used the practice, anyhow.
No real point, I guess, except that there may come a time, in the future, where it's time to get out the pitchforks and torches. We've not yet reached that point, to my mind, but should probably keep a barrel of heated pine pitch and the fork tines properly sharpened. You know, just in case.
I administer a whole host of Linux boxes and some of them are servers. Of course, that's just a half-rack leased for my own use and my own, personal, systems. Honestly? I learned a few new commands. Meh... It hasn't hurt anything at my end. I don't stray too far from the roost though, so it's pretty much out of sight and out of mind for me.
Of equal importance is to note that this reply is from someone who spends the vast majority of their time in userland (though, almost certainly, with a terminal open and usually doing something via remote). Also important is to qualify the below by reducing the importance to consider that I'm not to be confused with a professional. Having said that...
Truth told, I've not noticed it helping anything that affects my use patterns. It hasn't hindered anything, either. I've had nary a problem. I kind of want to fit in and say how I hate it, how it's not the Unix Way, and that it's too bloated, too complex, and the ruination of all the distros I know and love. Actually? Meh... I'm not really impacted, in the least. I guess it makes the dev's live's easier (for the distro packagers, at least) and I tend to donate to a few of them so, by extension, I guess you could say that I'm getting a bit more (theoretically) bang for my buck?
Mostly, I just watch and see what's going to happen next. Someone did a huge, academic-style, write up on it. It took me a minute to dig it out of my browser history on a networked box (long story - I'm still not home) but I was able to find it for you. I think, I'm not sure, it may have been on Slashdot? Anyhow, if you've not seen this then this makes an EXCELLENT read:
http://blog.darknedgy.net/tech...
In the end, I've concluded, I just doesn't seem to matter to me - yet. It doesn't really impact me. I'm sure that it does others but, for me, it just works. I want to hate it. I want to be in the cool crowd and rage against the evils of the domineering Red Hat and crew... I want to be enraged enough to key cars, throw bricks through windows, or at least post vile, spittle speckled, angry posts on the internet but it just hasn't bit me yet. Maybe when it does? I'll start my brick collection, just in case.
Ah, but grasshopper... The true path to the Unix Way is the realization that there is no one Unix Way. Sometimes you need brute force, for which you have a hammer. Then, at times, you need a Swiss Army Knife because there is no hammer. The true path lies in knowing which to apply and when to apply them.
Does it matter? If I want to delete sudo and ask, either help or not. Don't say, "Don't do that." Say, "You shouldn't do that, here is why, but this is how."
Yes, yes I do help support on a number of forums. The only exception I have is homework, I won't do obvious homework. If they ask for help, I'll send them in the right direction. I will not do it for them.
No, I do my killing with a firearm. I do my skinning with a knife. I also don't do my butchering in the kitchen. In fact, like firearms, knives are fine tools that can be misused. I carry a Victorinox. It's never killed anything. It has opened packages, cut cable, cut rope, carved wood, gutted fishies, and many more things. It has never killed anything.
I realize you're trolling or stupid but, well, somebody has to respond. I have a whole bunch of firearms that have never, not even when I wasn't looking, gone out and killed something. I have quite a few that will probably end up in prison for wanton paper slaughter, however. If you're paper, especially if you've a few circles on you, then you're quite likely in serious danger around those. If you're paper then you should probably hide or consider enacting laws for your own protection. They'll straight up murder the fuck right out of you and your family. They don't like paper, one bit.
The problem is, with a non-homogeneous society, there are fewer people like you and I who actually care about their community enough to do more than complain about it. The idea may work in parts of Europe. It probably won't work on a large scale in countries like the UK or the USA. It probably won't even work in Canada, America's Hat. (Oddly, it has a potential chance in Mexico, America's Underwear.)
Also, I have a house in Florida and I'm slowly going in that direction. They don't even touch the trash. They drive a special truck up beside it, it has arms that come out and grab the standardized bin, and it lifts it up and dumps it into the truck. I'd probably pay to drive that truck, never mind being paid to do it.
It was that line of thinking that got us off-shoring jobs and moving whole factories to the impoverished areas of the country.
To take this horrid metaphor even further... It's cheaper for me to give you the money to go buy your owned damned bread than it is for me to repair the damage from you breaking into my house and stealing it and it's damned sure cheaper than me needing to hire goons to prevent it.
Growth continues to increase... It's a myth that production is no longer done in the US.
http://www.esa.doc.gov/sites/d...
Additionally, I know exactly no one who's ever considered moving due to taxation - nobody with any wealth does. The noise about taxation seems to come from those who have no assets to tax. I don't know why they worry. I pay my taxes and have ample means of tax avoidance if I so desire. I don't mind my taxes, at all, but I do mind how they're spent.
Your money doesn't make much money in the Cayman Islands. You put some there, I suppose, if you want but there are better stores of value and far more productive stores. Instead, you put your money in slow growth and stable markets. Then you live off dividends and interest, quite handsomely too, and don't actually pay a whole lot of taxes. So long as your money is in the market, or goes unspent, you generally don't pay much in the way of taxes.