Then, when they DO image something interesting, like this Martin crinoid, they won't talk about it!
If there really was to be a cover-up, wouldn't it be easier to just not release the smoking gun pictures rather than release and deny?.
The same reason the original post appeared on/. but was marked "Troll": Information is hard to control but relatively easy to discredit.
That's what I was thinking. If they can create such complex algorithms, why can't they encode a simple video and upload it. The one they put up there is totally screwed.
At this point, it seems like there are at least some programs that outpace your expectations. It is entirely conceivable that Go programs could be good enough in a mid term time frame that they give stones to all but the Dans & pros.
I just found an earlier discussion on slashdot about this program. I think two of the comments (this and this) might provide insight to someone who isn't familiar with the game.
A 7 stone handicap is still HUGE. I've beaten a professional (Kano 7d) with that handicap.
Sure, but it certainly puts to rest your boast:
There isn't a go program running on anything that I can't give a 9 stone handicap to and crush almost without thinking - and I'm only 2k. The day a computer beats a pro seems to be far in the distant future.
So, not only has a computer already beaten a pro, but the pro was actually one of the top at the game, having won a major tournament.
Care to wager about beating that program giving it a 9-stone handi yourself? Come on, you said that you could crush any go program running "almost without thinking" with that handicap.
Go may be complex, and the complexities of strategic thinking are really hard (including even the most basic "big" vs. "vital" concepts), but clearly Go computer programs have gotten way beyond where you thought they were.
At this point, it seems like there are at least some programs that outpace your expectations. It is entirely conceivable that Go programs could be good enough in a mid term time frame that they give stones to all but the Dans & pros.
Regards.
I downloaded the latest publicly available version of MoGo (release 3) and I have to say I was fairly impressed. The program beat me a couple of times at a 9 stone handicap but now I can beat it. Here is the first game I played. This is the first game I won. The trouble is that go-playing programs make a systemic pattern of mistakes that's readily apparent after playing a few times. Mogo seems to have a much better "concept" of eyeshape than other programs I've played. Its main overall strategy seems to be to play in a different part of the board (tenuki) when it can't read the local situation, which is actually a valid strategy (used by human players) so long as it doesn't neglect critical situations.
I was really impressed with the way the program uses your time to analyse the position (--pondering flag) and that it resigns when it sees the game as hopeless, although it did resign a game that it had won. The program also keeps track of the time and adjusts its analysis correspondingly, which I've never seen a program do before. Still, there is a loooong way to go.
FYI, the program I downloaded is the 64-bit precompiled linux version running on a 2.2 GHz dual-core AMD under the current Gentoo release, using the GoGui front end. The program was invoked with the options --19 --totalTime 600 --nbThreads 2 --pondering 1
" There isn't a go program running on anything that I can't give a 9 stone handicap to and crush almost without thinking - and I'm only 2k."
In what reality do you live? Even excluding the new generation programs that are as strong or stronger than you (2kyu-1dan), the old generation programs still hover around the 6-8 kyu range. That would be 4-6 stones handicap. You could possibly get that up to 9 if you trained to specifically beat a program. But it would in no way be easy.
This isn't to say that go programs will overtake humans anytime soon. While the Monte Carlo algorithm did revolutionise the go ai world, it basically meant a quick leap up from the old min-max based ones. But now the reality is beginning to catch up with the programs. Monte Carlo may be better than min-max but brute forcing is still not really viable even if you use a more efficent way of brute forcing.
I live in a reality where there is such a thing as combinatorial explosion. The higher levels of go playing are quite simply incomprehensible to beginners, much less computer programs.
" There isn't a go program running on anything that I can't give a 9 stone handicap to and crush almost without thinking - and I'm only 2k."
In what reality do you live? Even excluding the new generation programs that are as strong or stronger than you (2kyu-1dan), the old generation programs still hover around the 6-8 kyu range. That would be 4-6 stones handicap. You could possibly get that up to 9 if you trained to specifically beat a program. But it would in no way be easy.
This isn't to say that go programs will overtake humans anytime soon. While the Monte Carlo algorithm did revolutionise the go ai world, it basically meant a quick leap up from the old min-max based ones. But now the reality is beginning to catch up with the programs. Monte Carlo may be better than min-max but brute forcing is still not really viable even if you use a more efficent way of brute forcing.
Interesting. Well, then computer chess geeks should refocus on cracking a game of Go. That should keep them busy for a while.:P
No doubt. There isn't a go program running on anything that I can't give a 9 stone handicap to and crush almost without thinking - and I'm only 2k. The day a computer beats a pro seems to be far in the distant future.
What is bad about this is the way MS forces you to upgrade - by erasing the disk, along with the OS and ALL of your data, then installing a licensed copy and reinstalling all of your apps and then the data. What could be more inconvenient? What could waste more time? What could be more stupid?
I've been playing this game for nearly 20 years since my cousin introduced me to it on an old 286, scary thing is it still runs fine today under windows xp. Long live x86 I guess. And I still haven't beaten it...
You haven't won and you're still on Microsoft? Res ipse loquitur, I guess.
I would not even call ascii primitive audiovisuals. It is more of a abstraction. And it enourages developers to work on important stuff: gameplay. And if game is fun without graphics, you just hit jackpot.
But of course awesome things happen if someone manages to take that roguelike core and adds fitting graphics ( Diablo series. )
Nethack has a Qt tileset that lets you distinguish objects that would be represented by the same character at a glance.
That being said, I do miss the tightness in the stomach whenever I saw a "D".
So, they photograph a 50x50px square half a billion time in a split second.
But...
How would they store it ?
I mean... Are they going to compress on the fly a billion tiny image ?
I didn't see anything about that in TFA.
Okay, wait, your entire family has been taken by cancer and you yourself, at the early age of 22, are already having cancer? Either there's something very wrong in your environment (e.g. near a nuclear power plant, underneath power lines, radon in the water table, living in three mile island or Chernobyl, you bathe in crude oil and/or gasoline, when they ask paper or plastic you pick plastic, etc.) or your family is an evolutionary dead-end. Not trying to be cruel, just saying. I think you should do some investigation; for the sake of whoever is left in your family, your surrounding neighborhood, and you yourself.
Yeah, we've pretty much made the biosphere a toxic soup (dioxins, bis-phenol A, phthalates, heavy metals and, oh, can you guess what happens to all the uranium munitions fired in Serbia, Iraq, etc.? Uranium is vaporized and is carried by the winds into the stratosphere, thence to the rest of the earth.)
So lots of people get cancer. Then they go to doctors and hospitals who are there to make money. The doctors and hospitals receive giga $ from the pharmaceutical industry which exists to make money. How much money do you think they would make if there were no sick people?
Humans have cut themselves off from nature and place incredibly foolish faith in synthetic drugs. There are at least three proven effective herbal anti-cancer agents: Turmeric root, cannabis (yes kids, marijuana) and the seeds, stems and roots of many species of Annona (pawpaw, soursop, cherimoya, pond apple...)
Hint: You will hear nothing of this on the nightly news.
Slashdot Mirror
I heard Terrence & Phillip were going to be on the first mission.
Can we get rid of it? Surely COBOL has developed faults over time, just like a train that's been running since 1850 would have.
Apologize to Dr. Kissinger right now.
What do you bet the script checks to see if firefox is browsing it and just throws up a black box in that case?
It's a ROVER - who ever heard of a girl ROVER?
Then, when they DO image something interesting, like this Martin crinoid, they won't talk about it! If there really was to be a cover-up, wouldn't it be easier to just not release the smoking gun pictures rather than release and deny? .
The same reason the original post appeared on /. but was marked "Troll": Information is hard to control but relatively easy to discredit.
If I'd spent the last 25 years peddling shit to idiots for billions of $ I'd have too much time on my hands, too.
All of us power users have all the IPs memorized.
That's what I was thinking. If they can create such complex algorithms, why can't they encode a simple video and upload it. The one they put up there is totally screwed.
I mean, seriously: Obama comes from the epicenter of corruption in this country. Did you think for an instant he would forsake his corporate sponsors?
Best I've ever used.
Hey, if you want to judge by the lowest denominator, that's fine. There's plenty of teenaged brits out there for the opposing side to use.
"Innit?" "Cos." etc ;)
Burakumin in Britain too? This is more serious than we thot.
At this point, it seems like there are at least some programs that outpace your expectations. It is entirely conceivable that Go programs could be good enough in a mid term time frame that they give stones to all but the Dans & pros.
I entirely disagree. And anyone who thinks that chess is comparible to go should read about Edward Lasker's experience with the game.
I just found an earlier discussion on slashdot about this program. I think two of the comments (this and this) might provide insight to someone who isn't familiar with the game.
A 7 stone handicap is still HUGE. I've beaten a professional (Kano 7d) with that handicap. Sure, but it certainly puts to rest your boast: There isn't a go program running on anything that I can't give a 9 stone handicap to and crush almost without thinking - and I'm only 2k. The day a computer beats a pro seems to be far in the distant future. So, not only has a computer already beaten a pro, but the pro was actually one of the top at the game, having won a major tournament. Care to wager about beating that program giving it a 9-stone handi yourself? Come on, you said that you could crush any go program running "almost without thinking" with that handicap. Go may be complex, and the complexities of strategic thinking are really hard (including even the most basic "big" vs. "vital" concepts), but clearly Go computer programs have gotten way beyond where you thought they were. At this point, it seems like there are at least some programs that outpace your expectations. It is entirely conceivable that Go programs could be good enough in a mid term time frame that they give stones to all but the Dans & pros. Regards.
I downloaded the latest publicly available version of MoGo (release 3) and I have to say I was fairly impressed. The program beat me a couple of times at a 9 stone handicap but now I can beat it. Here is the first game I played. This is the first game I won. The trouble is that go-playing programs make a systemic pattern of mistakes that's readily apparent after playing a few times. Mogo seems to have a much better "concept" of eyeshape than other programs I've played. Its main overall strategy seems to be to play in a different part of the board (tenuki) when it can't read the local situation, which is actually a valid strategy (used by human players) so long as it doesn't neglect critical situations.
I was really impressed with the way the program uses your time to analyse the position (--pondering flag) and that it resigns when it sees the game as hopeless, although it did resign a game that it had won. The program also keeps track of the time and adjusts its analysis correspondingly, which I've never seen a program do before. Still, there is a loooong way to go.
FYI, the program I downloaded is the 64-bit precompiled linux version running on a 2.2 GHz dual-core AMD under the current Gentoo release, using the GoGui front end. The program was invoked with the options --19 --totalTime 600 --nbThreads 2 --pondering 1
" There isn't a go program running on anything that I can't give a 9 stone handicap to and crush almost without thinking - and I'm only 2k."
In what reality do you live? Even excluding the new generation programs that are as strong or stronger than you (2kyu-1dan), the old generation programs still hover around the 6-8 kyu range. That would be 4-6 stones handicap. You could possibly get that up to 9 if you trained to specifically beat a program. But it would in no way be easy.
This isn't to say that go programs will overtake humans anytime soon. While the Monte Carlo algorithm did revolutionise the go ai world, it basically meant a quick leap up from the old min-max based ones. But now the reality is beginning to catch up with the programs. Monte Carlo may be better than min-max but brute forcing is still not really viable even if you use a more efficent way of brute forcing.
I live in a reality where there is such a thing as combinatorial explosion. The higher levels of go playing are quite simply incomprehensible to beginners, much less computer programs.
These days are over.
Go program beats professional 9 Dan at 7 stones handicap
On a side note, Zhou Junxun won the LG Cup 2007, so this is definitely a top player.
A 7 stone handicap is still HUGE. I've beaten a professional (Kano 7d) with that handicap.
" There isn't a go program running on anything that I can't give a 9 stone handicap to and crush almost without thinking - and I'm only 2k."
In what reality do you live? Even excluding the new generation programs that are as strong or stronger than you (2kyu-1dan), the old generation programs still hover around the 6-8 kyu range. That would be 4-6 stones handicap. You could possibly get that up to 9 if you trained to specifically beat a program. But it would in no way be easy.
This isn't to say that go programs will overtake humans anytime soon. While the Monte Carlo algorithm did revolutionise the go ai world, it basically meant a quick leap up from the old min-max based ones. But now the reality is beginning to catch up with the programs. Monte Carlo may be better than min-max but brute forcing is still not really viable even if you use a more efficent way of brute forcing.
Sorry, I'm from Missouri. You'll have to show me.
Interesting. Well, then computer chess geeks should refocus on cracking a game of Go. That should keep them busy for a while. :P
No doubt. There isn't a go program running on anything that I can't give a 9 stone handicap to and crush almost without thinking - and I'm only 2k. The day a computer beats a pro seems to be far in the distant future.
What is bad about this is the way MS forces you to upgrade - by erasing the disk, along with the OS and ALL of your data, then installing a licensed copy and reinstalling all of your apps and then the data. What could be more inconvenient? What could waste more time? What could be more stupid?
Using the piece of crap in the first place.
I've been playing this game for nearly 20 years since my cousin introduced me to it on an old 286, scary thing is it still runs fine today under windows xp. Long live x86 I guess. And I still haven't beaten it...
You haven't won and you're still on Microsoft? Res ipse loquitur, I guess.
I would not even call ascii primitive audiovisuals. It is more of a abstraction. And it enourages developers to work on important stuff: gameplay. And if game is fun without graphics, you just hit jackpot.
But of course awesome things happen if someone manages to take that roguelike core and adds fitting graphics ( Diablo series. )
Nethack has a Qt tileset that lets you distinguish objects that would be represented by the same character at a glance.
That being said, I do miss the tightness in the stomach whenever I saw a "D".
So, they photograph a 50x50px square half a billion time in a split second. But... How would they store it ? I mean... Are they going to compress on the fly a billion tiny image ? I didn't see anything about that in TFA.
Easy: Google!
Bird flu, pig flu, what's next?
BSD (Bird Swine Disease)
Ok, it's a troll - go ahead & mod me down.
This is also an interesting take on the song.
Yeah, we've pretty much made the biosphere a toxic soup (dioxins, bis-phenol A, phthalates, heavy metals and, oh, can you guess what happens to all the uranium munitions fired in Serbia, Iraq, etc.? Uranium is vaporized and is carried by the winds into the stratosphere, thence to the rest of the earth.)
So lots of people get cancer. Then they go to doctors and hospitals who are there to make money. The doctors and hospitals receive giga $ from the pharmaceutical industry which exists to make money. How much money do you think they would make if there were no sick people?
Humans have cut themselves off from nature and place incredibly foolish faith in synthetic drugs. There are at least three proven effective herbal anti-cancer agents: Turmeric root, cannabis (yes kids, marijuana) and the seeds, stems and roots of many species of Annona (pawpaw, soursop, cherimoya, pond apple...)
Hint: You will hear nothing of this on the nightly news.