Am I mistaken or is it Judges that have been taking away our workplace privacy rights in the first place--or more accuratly, upholding the companies rights to take away our privacy?
If the courts were against it, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't currently have any email monitoring in the workplace.
Unfortunately I see evolution being taught more and more in universities, ergo more and more scientists graduating out of schools are believing in evolution. Very few college programs will teach anything like creationism when they can teach a real scientific method such as evolution. These scientists then move into the private sector and recommend evolution to their superiors. It's a vicious cycle. This is also the natural progression for those who are "saved" by true scientific methodologies.
Apparently either nobody watches the current season or these comments are being written outside the US where they are back a season.
- It happens to so stupidly far in the future
Isn't quite true at all. It happens today, just, for the most part, in the "Good" universe. Now that they've shifted over to the "Evil" universe, we see a lot more earth.
That's what I've picked up from the 3 or 4 episodes I've caught this season since they put it on after Farscape.
The H card contains some hardware that decrypts keys. The problem is, while it's decrypting keys, DirectTV can send signals to reprogram the card.
The emulator emulates the card itself and only sends on the actual key requests. Any writes are done in the emulated card in the PC.
It's interesting, but the people that really get into this aren't into TV as much as the challenge. It's kind of like one of the last REAL brain challenges left.
If DTV was smart, they'd just start hiring the best crackers (at any price, really) and have them start searching for methods to stop pirating.
Is a virus that starts some second process on your computer actually so much worse than a website that pops up hammer-the-gopher adds?
I don't have a problem with the viruses, I can avoid them. It's sites like the authors that start new advertising popups for every page I visit that bothers me.
I don't think it's such a straightforward question. It's more like saying "Your browser uses one set of C Libraries, so your system has to link with a completely different set"
DLLs are an interesting idea--and it's kind of true that a desktop window looks a lot like a browser window--sometimes you can even type a URL into the desktop window if you like... it is, effectivly, a browser window.
But microsoft kinds screwed themselves when they said that they couldn't remove the browser without harming windows. That's what it really comes down to. Most people would have been happy if MS would have just removed the damn E from their desktop!
On the other hand, enforcing this ruling might lead toward a plug-in windowing system. Remove your IE style desktop windows and install netscape style windows. The exact opposite of what MS was trying to accomplish in the first place. Cool.
One decent "Prima donna" is going to do the work of 5-10 "Normal Programmers". This is one of those strange facts that you never believe until you see it.
Being at the capibility level that enables that kind of programming skill often requires giving up some portion of your life--useless parts like childhood and socializing, so of course you're dealing, for the most part, with people who haven't a clue how to deal with others and are personally insecure.
How to fix it? Give them everything they want. Project Ownership!--Put them in charge of a group. Allow them to report to upper management (Nothing is going to piss them off more than some inept middle manager trying to puff himself up by micro-managing decent programmers).
Now the other side of the coin, you must take certian steps to limit your exposure:
*Make them responsible for deadlines.
*Have an independant QA team ready to check the output.
*Have quick turn-around times so you can keep an eye on progress.
*Have code reviews. Put your "Prima Donna" in charge, but involve others.
*Encourage them to use ANY or ALL of the "Extreme Programming" techniques--they will all limit your exposure and mature your programmers without costing anything.
I work for a company that employs 150 people based, for the most part, on the work of one extremely talented person that some might even refer to by the "P" word (when he's not around).
I'm so depressed at my "Net Worth" over the last year that I can't even bring up MyYahoo any more. If I put it on my command prompt, I'd probably end up killing myself.
It's a great thing, until something goes wrong. The problem is, when something goes wrong how do you handle it? Genetically Engineer a spider to catch the GE fly we swallowed?
For example, there is a GE form of sea grass that was made more robust for use in fish tanks. People change their tanks and flush the water. The sea grass flows out to sea.
This grass is now taking over huge areas of underwater shorescapes and pushing out all natural life in certian areas. They are trying to contain it, but don't have much of a chance.
(Sorry about the lack of details on that one, by the way, but it is true).
The only issue is really how do large US corporations get yet more of the worlds money. That's really "America's" only motivation to do anything any more...
Actually, I heard today that VB has more code out there now than Cobol does.
VB sucks as a language, but put it together with the whole environment & database integration and it's a really powerful tool--to knock it so out-of-hand simply means you haven't used it to meet a deadline that was otherwise impossible.
I would love to address everything mentioned, but I don't have the time or the room.
I work in a 100% java shop employing over 100 programmers. I've also worked in C++, C, Basic and Assembly. (http://www.doradosoftware.com). We have a full client/server product that will manage large numbers of Network Elements and has 24/7 operation. Java is not some toy language.
Honestly, I would suggest that Java would be a fantastic first language. Java has been designed to allow the programmer to concentrate on your problem rather than the language. Think about it--An "Ideal" language would be one where every single line goes towards solving your real-world problem and no time/code goes into language maintenance. Java's design goal seems to be to eliminate the overhead.
I read a really intestering comment the other day. Basically programmers can only evaluate languages that are inferior to or equal to the most powerful language they know.
This really fits what I've seen. I have known 4 people who were very strong C++ programmers (and who, of course, dreaded using Java because it's so "Trendy", or "Slow", or (well, insert any other problem mentioned in this thread). By the end of the project each dreaded or refused to go back to C++.
Java is currently as fast as C++ at nearly every operation (a little faster at times, a little slower at others), is not bulky at all (the Bytecode is actually more compact than assembly), and has some amazing capibilities that you can't even understand until you have used many of them for a while (Fully understand Reflection before even commenting about Java! That's the part that has blown the socks off the C++ programmers I've known)
Honestly, the whole difference in design between Java and the C/C++ world is that java was designed to be used and used right (C/C++ was more evolved than designed anyway).
What's my point?
A) Feel free to use java or some other higher level language in school (I hear lisp is great too).
B) DO NOT take recommendations from anyone who does not have at least a year of steady Java use--they are honestly not qualified (Just as I am not qualified to comment on Lisp).
C) LOTS of java jobs out there, don't be afraid your time is in any way wasted. (Also, don't EVEN think that this will be the LAST language you learn)
When my uncle got his first VCR he had a showing of a few movies for family and friends. Later that night the kids went to bed and he showed some porn for curious family and friends.
I asked why I couldn't stay and watch, and he said I could see it the next day.
The next morning he showed me a few scenes of people running through the grass naked and kissing naked.
I was quite young (between 5 & 10). Watched for a while, and was pretty unimpressed.
Is it really necessary to make this kind of thing illegal? Would it have honestly been better if I'd been told "No, that's only for adults" which, as anyone who remembers childhood translates to "When you can do this you will be an adult!"
They took the same attitutde toward drinking, I always had a glass of champaign on new-years, and at parties was not restricted from drinking.
Now I rarely drink and have been drunk less than 5 times in the past 10 years, and do not own a single porn video.
I'm pretty sure that since my mother and father were both alcholics, I would have become so as well if it hadn't been handled so well (IE: if I'd been told that it was "Mature" to drink which, again, is what any kid hears when he is told that he's to young to do something)
I know it's offtopic, but I really get sick of the anti-moderation posts on here. Moderation is the ONLY reason that I read/.
I can read the summary, then I can get the most relavant, informative posts right off the top. Then if I have the time, I can delve in further.
If you don't like moderation, why don't you set the moderation level to -1 then it will never bother you again? It seems to be completely opt-in to me.
Every time our "Advanced" culture interacts with a less developed one, it pretty much destroys the less developed culture.
I think the only reason there isn't "Proof" that aliens exist is because it wouldn't be good for us--no matter how ready we think we are.
I just wish we had really been "Advanced" enough to be able to view cultures without destroying them over the past few hundred years.
I wonder how many world cultures at our level have been destroyed because they just "Gave up" after finding out that everything they've invented over the past 100 years--and everything they will invent over the next 2000--has already been invented and handed to them.
For the last -hmm- 10 years I haven't seen any point in a console game, PC's are better in just about every way. The only way console games SEEM better is in the drawing speed, and that's because they are running at a resolution that would make any PC gammer sick.
BUT--it's possible to do some things in arcades that are way outside what the typical home user can do.
I have yet to see a PC or console that can--
place pictures of all your teammates on monitors with full motion vidio and sound (Hell, how about just the sound??? Most games use pre-recorded hotkeys)!
Allow for specialized control systems. Hell, you can't even play Tempest on a PC like you could in the arcade, and that game is decades old now.
Run ANY games without a fairly significant initial investment.
Support extravagant hardware such as gigantic monitors and powerful sound systems without, again, a large ammount of $ up front.
----
Arcades are also a place to socialize, a place to meet others, many have a fantastic atmosphere and food and lack the extreme m/f ratio of a lan party.
I'm sorry but I stopped using IRC years ago because it was so obvious that it was just a big game platform.
"Bots?" "Channel Admins?" All just roles in the game. If you wish to play the game, fine, be prepared to take whatever comes without whining. If you don't want to play, move on and find another corner of this huge net to fool around in.
The people I feel sorry for are the companies that had someone dupe them into believing that running an IRC server is a "Good Thing". Any manger who can't see that an IRC server is just a trouble magnet is seriously out of touch--and is certianly trusting someone they shouldn't!
But why on earth wouldn't it amuse those who saw it coming and moved on? Taking it seriously is certianly a lot to ask of us...
OTOH, Kids with the hacker mentality are always going to need some place to go to develop some skills, do something a little "bad", and eventually get over it. Make it a little harder and continue the game.
Yeah, and if it hadn't been for a quirk in timing, the whole thing would have been plowed under by the forrest service.
I have to agree with your point though, someone should convince them that all this stuff isn't theirs to destroy, we paid for it and when they are done it should be returned.
The bit about networking them really gives it away--reinforced by the fact that PS2's are the "Big Topic" right now (Christmas).
When I first read it I thought it might be possible--not as a networked power computer or anything (a cluster of cheap pentium linux machines will do a better job!) but as a missile guidance system--just that it's really cheap. Of course, a palm pilot would probably be a much better guidance system, and probably easier to reprogram...
The reason it sounded slightly viable at first was the cheap price and the fact that it would be pretty trivial for a government to come up with interface cartridges--
hmm, come to think of it, can anyone come up with a better price/power ratio for anything around that size? I bet a palm is no where near that much power. OTOH, how much power can a missile guidance system use--bet they still use Z-80's.
There are some powerful defense systems on warships that are still being powered by Z80's including radar, tracking and firing systems.
I got tired of seeing that mindwire sig, so I went over to look. The only article that hadn't been pretty much covered by/. already was an article about smoking where the headline was completely wrong.
Also it had a first post article.
Also it only had 2 replies, neither of which noticed the inaccuracy of the headline (even though one of the posts was ABOUT the inaccurate figures mentioned)
And Karma whoring? The best thing about/. is the way that, when you sort by rating, you ALWAYS seem to get the most useful information about the story within the first 3 posts.
ps. Also due to the rating system, I have not seen a "First Post" post for years except when I'm moderating--seriously, years.
Sorry, but the/. users are damn bright, and the rating system--however imperfect you may perceive it, works amazingly well.
so now moderate me to hell for being off topic, but please don't put stuff like that on here and not expect to be called on it.
Maybe Murderers and Rapists don't get 7 years, but try getting caught with a joint in your pocket and see how fast they throw away the key.
Personally I find hacking much more offensive if the it is done for profit. When it's done for protest, or simply for fun then who cares, it will probably be a one-off situation and the sysop will correct it and everyone gets on with their lives.
But when people start making money off it, then it'll never stop unles you make a significant penalty.
Actually I uninstalled Netscape from my life when the version I was using prompted me weekly to install AIM.
I actually looked around on the web to see how to stop it from doing this and the only articles were pretty sketchy with lots of references to registry settings and deleting files by hand.
Not that I can't do that, but if they are targetting users that put up with shit like that, I'd rather not be associated with that group of users any more.
One of the first incredable databases on the web was the Lyrics database. (I've finally forgoten the domain, I think it was something like lyrics.ch.se)
It was all typed in by users by hand--Lyrics to nearly any song you could imagine, and it was created by us, and stolen from us.
I wonder why they haven't shut down the CDDB databases yet--What is the difference between that data and the data in the lyrics database? Both are simply bits available on a CD, just a different encoding mechanism:)
Slashdot Mirror
Am I mistaken or is it Judges that have been taking away our workplace privacy rights in the first place--or more accuratly, upholding the companies rights to take away our privacy?
If the courts were against it, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't currently have any email monitoring in the workplace.
You know, things you have to do every day.
NTRPH: NT Reboots Per Hour...
UEAPT: Unrequested Explorer Add Popup Time
R/.E: Resistance to Slashdot Effect.
PCRT: Paperclip Rise Time--how long does it take Word's paperclip to go from not on the screen to fully erect?
CSDP: Chance your machine will solve one of those "Distributed Problems" and you'll win money.
Okay, I'll stop...
How about all the money that americans donated into finding a "Cure" for aids? Is that a decent alternative to granting 20 year monopolies?
By the way, where did my money go? Shouldn't I get some of the money off these patents since I paid for some of the research?
Unfortunately I see evolution being taught more and more in universities, ergo more and more scientists graduating out of schools are believing in evolution. Very few college programs will teach anything like creationism when they can teach a real scientific method such as evolution. These scientists then move into the private sector and recommend evolution to their superiors. It's a vicious cycle. This is also the natural progression for those who are "saved" by true scientific methodologies.
Apparently either nobody watches the current season or these comments are being written outside the US where they are back a season.
- It happens to so stupidly far in the future
Isn't quite true at all. It happens today, just, for the most part, in the "Good" universe. Now that they've shifted over to the "Evil" universe, we see a lot more earth.
That's what I've picked up from the 3 or 4 episodes I've caught this season since they put it on after Farscape.
The H card contains some hardware that decrypts keys. The problem is, while it's decrypting keys, DirectTV can send signals to reprogram the card.
The emulator emulates the card itself and only sends on the actual key requests. Any writes are done in the emulated card in the PC.
It's interesting, but the people that really get into this aren't into TV as much as the challenge. It's kind of like one of the last REAL brain challenges left.
If DTV was smart, they'd just start hiring the best crackers (at any price, really) and have them start searching for methods to stop pirating.
Is a virus that starts some second process on your computer actually so much worse than a website that pops up hammer-the-gopher adds?
I don't have a problem with the viruses, I can avoid them. It's sites like the authors that start new advertising popups for every page I visit that bothers me.
How is this not a virus? It's just not persisted.
So, can we kill these guys too? Please???
I don't think it's such a straightforward question. It's more like saying "Your browser uses one set of C Libraries, so your system has to link with a completely different set"
DLLs are an interesting idea--and it's kind of true that a desktop window looks a lot like a browser window--sometimes you can even type a URL into the desktop window if you like... it is, effectivly, a browser window.
But microsoft kinds screwed themselves when they said that they couldn't remove the browser without harming windows. That's what it really comes down to. Most people would have been happy if MS would have just removed the damn E from their desktop!
On the other hand, enforcing this ruling might lead toward a plug-in windowing system. Remove your IE style desktop windows and install netscape style windows. The exact opposite of what MS was trying to accomplish in the first place. Cool.
One decent "Prima donna" is going to do the work of 5-10 "Normal Programmers". This is one of those strange facts that you never believe until you see it.
Being at the capibility level that enables that kind of programming skill often requires giving up some portion of your life--useless parts like childhood and socializing, so of course you're dealing, for the most part, with people who haven't a clue how to deal with others and are personally insecure.
How to fix it? Give them everything they want. Project Ownership!--Put them in charge of a group. Allow them to report to upper management (Nothing is going to piss them off more than some inept middle manager trying to puff himself up by micro-managing decent programmers).
Now the other side of the coin, you must take certian steps to limit your exposure:
*Make them responsible for deadlines.
*Have an independant QA team ready to check the output.
*Have quick turn-around times so you can keep an eye on progress.
*Have code reviews. Put your "Prima Donna" in charge, but involve others.
*Encourage them to use ANY or ALL of the "Extreme Programming" techniques--they will all limit your exposure and mature your programmers without costing anything.
I work for a company that employs 150 people based, for the most part, on the work of one extremely talented person that some might even refer to by the "P" word (when he's not around).
I'm so depressed at my "Net Worth" over the last year that I can't even bring up MyYahoo any more. If I put it on my command prompt, I'd probably end up killing myself.
If all DNA is the same, how did Mad Cow desease start? I thought it was a mutation caused by feeding beef to beef for a few generations.
It's a great thing, until something goes wrong. The problem is, when something goes wrong how do you handle it? Genetically Engineer a spider to catch the GE fly we swallowed?
For example, there is a GE form of sea grass that was made more robust for use in fish tanks. People change their tanks and flush the water. The sea grass flows out to sea.
This grass is now taking over huge areas of underwater shorescapes and pushing out all natural life in certian areas. They are trying to contain it, but don't have much of a chance.
(Sorry about the lack of details on that one, by the way, but it is true).
The only issue is really how do large US corporations get yet more of the worlds money. That's really "America's" only motivation to do anything any more...
Actually, I heard today that VB has more code out there now than Cobol does.
VB sucks as a language, but put it together with the whole environment & database integration and it's a really powerful tool--to knock it so out-of-hand simply means you haven't used it to meet a deadline that was otherwise impossible.
I would love to address everything mentioned, but I don't have the time or the room.
I work in a 100% java shop employing over 100 programmers. I've also worked in C++, C, Basic and Assembly. (http://www.doradosoftware.com). We have a full client/server product that will manage large numbers of Network Elements and has 24/7 operation. Java is not some toy language.
Honestly, I would suggest that Java would be a fantastic first language. Java has been designed to allow the programmer to concentrate on your problem rather than the language. Think about it--An "Ideal" language would be one where every single line goes towards solving your real-world problem and no time/code goes into language maintenance. Java's design goal seems to be to eliminate the overhead.
I read a really intestering comment the other day. Basically programmers can only evaluate languages that are inferior to or equal to the most powerful language they know.
This really fits what I've seen. I have known 4 people who were very strong C++ programmers (and who, of course, dreaded using Java because it's so "Trendy", or "Slow", or (well, insert any other problem mentioned in this thread). By the end of the project each dreaded or refused to go back to C++.
Java is currently as fast as C++ at nearly every operation (a little faster at times, a little slower at others), is not bulky at all (the Bytecode is actually more compact than assembly), and has some amazing capibilities that you can't even understand until you have used many of them for a while (Fully understand Reflection before even commenting about Java! That's the part that has blown the socks off the C++ programmers I've known)
Honestly, the whole difference in design between Java and the C/C++ world is that java was designed to be used and used right (C/C++ was more evolved than designed anyway).
What's my point?
A) Feel free to use java or some other higher level language in school (I hear lisp is great too).
B) DO NOT take recommendations from anyone who does not have at least a year of steady Java use--they are honestly not qualified (Just as I am not qualified to comment on Lisp).
C) LOTS of java jobs out there, don't be afraid your time is in any way wasted. (Also, don't EVEN think that this will be the LAST language you learn)
When my uncle got his first VCR he had a showing of a few movies for family and friends. Later that night the kids went to bed and he showed some porn for curious family and friends.
I asked why I couldn't stay and watch, and he said I could see it the next day.
The next morning he showed me a few scenes of people running through the grass naked and kissing naked.
I was quite young (between 5 & 10). Watched for a while, and was pretty unimpressed.
Is it really necessary to make this kind of thing illegal? Would it have honestly been better if I'd been told "No, that's only for adults" which, as anyone who remembers childhood translates to "When you can do this you will be an adult!"
They took the same attitutde toward drinking, I always had a glass of champaign on new-years, and at parties was not restricted from drinking.
Now I rarely drink and have been drunk less than 5 times in the past 10 years, and do not own a single porn video.
I'm pretty sure that since my mother and father were both alcholics, I would have become so as well if it hadn't been handled so well (IE: if I'd been told that it was "Mature" to drink which, again, is what any kid hears when he is told that he's to young to do something)
Your theory seems to be wrong, mr. 5
/.
I know it's offtopic, but I really get sick of the anti-moderation posts on here. Moderation is the ONLY reason that I read
I can read the summary, then I can get the most relavant, informative posts right off the top. Then if I have the time, I can delve in further.
If you don't like moderation, why don't you set the moderation level to -1 then it will never bother you again? It seems to be completely opt-in to me.
Every time our "Advanced" culture interacts with a less developed one, it pretty much destroys the less developed culture.
I think the only reason there isn't "Proof" that aliens exist is because it wouldn't be good for us--no matter how ready we think we are.
I just wish we had really been "Advanced" enough to be able to view cultures without destroying them over the past few hundred years.
I wonder how many world cultures at our level have been destroyed because they just "Gave up" after finding out that everything they've invented over the past 100 years--and everything they will invent over the next 2000--has already been invented and handed to them.
Seriously, how do you catch up?
For the last -hmm- 10 years I haven't seen any point in a console game, PC's are better in just about every way. The only way console games SEEM better is in the drawing speed, and that's because they are running at a resolution that would make any PC gammer sick.
BUT--it's possible to do some things in arcades that are way outside what the typical home user can do.
I have yet to see a PC or console that can--
place pictures of all your teammates on monitors with full motion vidio and sound (Hell, how about just the sound??? Most games use pre-recorded hotkeys)!
Allow for specialized control systems. Hell, you can't even play Tempest on a PC like you could in the arcade, and that game is decades old now.
Run ANY games without a fairly significant initial investment.
Support extravagant hardware such as gigantic monitors and powerful sound systems without, again, a large ammount of $ up front.
----
Arcades are also a place to socialize, a place to meet others, many have a fantastic atmosphere and food and lack the extreme m/f ratio of a lan party.
They just need to evolve a little...
I'm sorry but I stopped using IRC years ago because it was so obvious that it was just a big game platform.
"Bots?" "Channel Admins?" All just roles in the game. If you wish to play the game, fine, be prepared to take whatever comes without whining. If you don't want to play, move on and find another corner of this huge net to fool around in.
The people I feel sorry for are the companies that had someone dupe them into believing that running an IRC server is a "Good Thing". Any manger who can't see that an IRC server is just a trouble magnet is seriously out of touch--and is certianly trusting someone they shouldn't!
But why on earth wouldn't it amuse those who saw it coming and moved on? Taking it seriously is certianly a lot to ask of us...
OTOH, Kids with the hacker mentality are always going to need some place to go to develop some skills, do something a little "bad", and eventually get over it. Make it a little harder and continue the game.
Yeah, and if it hadn't been for a quirk in timing, the whole thing would have been plowed under by the forrest service.
I have to agree with your point though, someone should convince them that all this stuff isn't theirs to destroy, we paid for it and when they are done it should be returned.
The bit about networking them really gives it away--reinforced by the fact that PS2's are the "Big Topic" right now (Christmas).
When I first read it I thought it might be possible--not as a networked power computer or anything (a cluster of cheap pentium linux machines will do a better job!) but as a missile guidance system--just that it's really cheap. Of course, a palm pilot would probably be a much better guidance system, and probably easier to reprogram...
The reason it sounded slightly viable at first was the cheap price and the fact that it would be pretty trivial for a government to come up with interface cartridges--
hmm, come to think of it, can anyone come up with a better price/power ratio for anything around that size? I bet a palm is no where near that much power. OTOH, how much power can a missile guidance system use--bet they still use Z-80's.
There are some powerful defense systems on warships that are still being powered by Z80's including radar, tracking and firing systems.
I got tired of seeing that mindwire sig, so I went over to look. The only article that hadn't been pretty much covered by /. already was an article about smoking where the headline was completely wrong.
/. is the way that, when you sort by rating, you ALWAYS seem to get the most useful information about the story within the first 3 posts.
/. users are damn bright, and the rating system--however imperfect you may perceive it, works amazingly well.
Also it had a first post article.
Also it only had 2 replies, neither of which noticed the inaccuracy of the headline (even though one of the posts was ABOUT the inaccurate figures mentioned)
And Karma whoring? The best thing about
ps. Also due to the rating system, I have not seen a "First Post" post for years except when I'm moderating--seriously, years.
Sorry, but the
so now moderate me to hell for being off topic, but please don't put stuff like that on here and not expect to be called on it.
Maybe Murderers and Rapists don't get 7 years, but try getting caught with a joint in your pocket and see how fast they throw away the key.
Personally I find hacking much more offensive if the it is done for profit. When it's done for protest, or simply for fun then who cares, it will probably be a one-off situation and the sysop will correct it and everyone gets on with their lives.
But when people start making money off it, then it'll never stop unles you make a significant penalty.
Actually I uninstalled Netscape from my life when the version I was using prompted me weekly to install AIM.
I actually looked around on the web to see how to stop it from doing this and the only articles were pretty sketchy with lots of references to registry settings and deleting files by hand.
Not that I can't do that, but if they are targetting users that put up with shit like that, I'd rather not be associated with that group of users any more.
One of the first incredable databases on the web was the Lyrics database. (I've finally forgoten the domain, I think it was something like lyrics.ch.se)
:)
It was all typed in by users by hand--Lyrics to nearly any song you could imagine, and it was created by us, and stolen from us.
I wonder why they haven't shut down the CDDB databases yet--What is the difference between that data and the data in the lyrics database? Both are simply bits available on a CD, just a different encoding mechanism