Nope! 4 1/2 years at least. Apple dropped the floppy when the first C1 iMac came out (I know 'coz I worked on the product @ Apple. Got the t-shirt:-) )
Not quite. Your initial point was that Linux was less stable than OSX; "show me a Linux box running X11 that is as stable as OS X". My point was that it's all dependent upon context. Third-party apps can mess up OSX just as easily as an Linux apps can (Norton vs. StarOffice, for example).
Do you use your server for everyday tasks, like StarOffice, email, and everything else.
You run something like StarOffice, you take yer chances. I've not had a lot of luck running it. It crashes at whim on my box. Equally, there are MacOS X apps that misbehave equally.
(BTW - my box runs as an tunnelled X server but doesn't run any local client apps)
Server software is stable because it has to be. Because Norton crashes your OS X box doesn't mean that OS X is more unstable than Linux - it means that norton sucks (big surprise).
Indeed. I agree totally....
Yes, if you run Linux as a server it is more stable. If you run it as an every-day machine it is not.
"Yes, if you run MacOS X as a server it is more stable. If you run it as an every-day machine it is not [as stable]." My point exactly. Third-party apps and their relative quality. Nothing to do with Linux or MacOS X directly...
... as opposed to Linux, where everything's "third party":-) . I'm not holding Apple responsible for Symantec's dodgy kext, but merely pointing out that the stability of a machine can be largely down to its usage & the quality of software run upon it.
Anyone can easily write a bad kext; anyone can easily write a bad kernel module. Same difference.
Yes I know there is Linux and such for free but if you can show me a Linux box running X11 that is as stable as OS X I will submit and sell my iBook.
Ok, please package up your iBook and mail it on!:-) Right now, I'm typing this up on my TiBook running X.2.3. Every so often, I get a kernel panic. Very rarely, but it *does* happen! Here's one;
panic(cpu 0): getnewbuf: bp @ 0x109ee030 is LOCKED! (flags 0x60006220)
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0: Backtrace: 0x00084E9C 0x000852CC 0x00027F8C 0x000A8EC8 0x000A8098 0x000A7240 0x000A7318 0x1269B7F8 0x000BD248 0x001EB164 0x001EAFB8 0x0020D8CC 0x00091E90 0x00090009 Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies): com.symantec.kext.symfs(7.0.2)@0x12698000 dependency: com.symantec.kext.symdc(1.3)@0x1283c000 Proceedin g back via exception chain: Exception state (sv=0x12424280) PC=0x9000134C; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x000FAA68; DSISR=0x0A000000; LR=0x00022B74; R1=0xBFFFF210; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)
Kernel version: Darwin Kernel Version 6.2: Tue Nov 5 22:00:03 PST 2002; root:xnu/xnu-344.12.2.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC
Oh look, It's Norton acting up - quelle surprise! I've other panics to show, but you get the idea...
I've also got a Linux box running as a web/ssh/mail server on the 'net. Right now, the uptime is over 4 months. Every so often, I just get bored & reboot it but that machine just runs and runs. Yeah, it runs X11 too...
So, maybe the UK could restrict access to just professional lobbyists, it works very well in the US.
No, it doesn't. It only works well for those who can afford to pay for professional lobbyists & for those who pay to set up 'special interest groups' claiming to represent the vast public when they don't.
When I lived in the US, I can remember the 'Prop. nnn' ads on TV, paid for by 'Concerned Citizens Against Blah' written in small print at the bottom. It always turned out that 'citizens' were actually some big business (often the tobacco industry).
What works really well as a substitute for tobacco is mint. Yes, mint! Get the (prob. chemically laden) cheapo dried stuff from the local store or grow and dry your own.
For kicks, I tried installing it on my old 200 MMX from around that era (hey - it runs RH7.0 just fine!) but it refused to install cleanly. I ended up putting Win98 on & leaving it at that...
I'm running on a very early (pre-production) blue iMac which has been hacked to 333MHz with just 128MB. Runs like a champ on X.2.3. Sometimes the dock genie effect gets choppy & pixellated but it still works just fine. And hey - it's got to be approaching 5 years old now....
(Try taking a 5 year old PC & installing XP on it & see how it performs. Fun & games)
Well, *we* obviously don't - that's for sure. Personally, I like the idea. Why?? Well, I develop cross-platform s/w for both Linux and MacOS X. With this, I should be able to target and verify both platforms on my little ol' TiBook instead of having to bother my butt with my desktop PC. Storage space is cheap, so why not??
I hate BSD top. It's too plain and austere. Where are all the fucking options?
Fair enough. So why don't you just go add them yourself, then? That *is* the idea, right? BTW, Apple has already produced a half-assed GUI layer around TOP (ProcessViewer)
... a fly-by-night software house in India... commercial code for real products... a quick one-time job hacked out...
Just how partonising and ill-informed can you get! Just because it's not from the US doesn't make it 'a fly-by-night software house'. There are plenty of US companies that fit this image. Credit where it's due; Indian companies are capable of churning out excellent software & guess what - they can even peer-audit and maintain it themselves! Who'd a thunk, eh?
That's why they have so many SEI Level 5 compliant organisations. Take a look at this report & count the Indian companies (and, hey, this was compiled in 1999. What's it like now??). Oh, look - Wipro is on the list. Surpriiise!
In America's information economy, we have become comfortable framing our competitive advantage in terms of knowledge and innovation. We justify charging premium prices because we have the best-trained talent delivering top-quality information solutions.
Oh, c'mon. The writing's been on the wall for over 20 years now. So much 'knowledge' and 'innovation' has originated from Europe and the Far East since then & it's beginning to be noticed in mainstream journals like Fast Company. Those of us in the industry have already known this for years....
Then follows a copy of the GPL & the Harri Porten & Univ. of Cambridge acknowledgements. It really doesn't get much better. And remember - since Steve returned to Apple, *no* internal developers are allowed put their names to any application.
(Disclaimer: I'm a developer @ Apple but I'm speaking just for myself)
Slashdot Mirror
FWIW, msn.com looks dreadful on Omniweb 4.2b1 (just released) but checks out fine on Safari v52 ....
This came up on /. before (tho' not the O'Reilly link). Read all about it here
Nope! 4 1/2 years at least. Apple dropped the floppy when the first C1 iMac came out (I know 'coz I worked on the product @ Apple. Got the t-shirt :-) )
Not quite. Your initial point was that Linux was less stable than OSX; "show me a Linux box running X11 that is as stable as OS X". My point was that it's all dependent upon context. Third-party apps can mess up OSX just as easily as an Linux apps can (Norton vs. StarOffice, for example).
Nope.
You run something like StarOffice, you take yer chances. I've not had a lot of luck running it. It crashes at whim on my box. Equally, there are MacOS X apps that misbehave equally.
(BTW - my box runs as an tunnelled X server but doesn't run any local client apps)
Server software is stable because it has to be. Because Norton crashes your OS X box doesn't mean that OS X is more unstable than Linux - it means that norton sucks (big surprise).
Indeed. I agree totally ....
Yes, if you run Linux as a server it is more stable. If you run it as an every-day machine it is not.
"Yes, if you run MacOS X as a server it is more stable. If you run it as an every-day machine it is not [as stable]." My point exactly. Third-party apps and their relative quality. Nothing to do with Linux or MacOS X directly ...
Anyone can easily write a bad kext; anyone can easily write a bad kernel module. Same difference.
Ok, please package up your iBook and mail it on! :-) Right now, I'm typing this up on my TiBook running X.2.3. Every so often, I get a kernel panic. Very rarely, but it *does* happen! Here's one;
Oh look, It's Norton acting up - quelle surprise! I've other panics to show, but you get the ideaI've also got a Linux box running as a web/ssh/mail server on the 'net. Right now, the uptime is over 4 months. Every so often, I just get bored & reboot it but that machine just runs and runs. Yeah, it runs X11 too ...
Horses for courses and all that!
Dude, don't tell the BSA, but I know where you can download an OS for free & run it on cheap x86 hardware. Click here to download. (Our secret, ok?)
*sigh* - trolling, I know ...
http://publicsource.apple.com
"We think Open Source is great!" - Steve Jobs
No, it doesn't. It only works well for those who can afford to pay for professional lobbyists & for those who pay to set up 'special interest groups' claiming to represent the vast public when they don't.
When I lived in the US, I can remember the 'Prop. nnn' ads on TV, paid for by 'Concerned Citizens Against Blah' written in small print at the bottom. It always turned out that 'citizens' were actually some big business (often the tobacco industry).
Tastes good - smells ok. No problems ....
What's a facist? Someone who's violently opposed to faces or something?? Ewww ...
For kicks, I tried installing it on my old 200 MMX from around that era (hey - it runs RH7.0 just fine!) but it refused to install cleanly. I ended up putting Win98 on & leaving it at that ...
(Try taking a 5 year old PC & installing XP on it & see how it performs. Fun & games)
Well, *we* obviously don't - that's for sure. Personally, I like the idea. Why?? Well, I develop cross-platform s/w for both Linux and MacOS X. With this, I should be able to target and verify both platforms on my little ol' TiBook instead of having to bother my butt with my desktop PC. Storage space is cheap, so why not??
Fair enough. So why don't you just go add them yourself, then? That *is* the idea, right? BTW, Apple has already produced a half-assed GUI layer around TOP (ProcessViewer)
A google search threw up this link which discusses in detail the invention of RADAR (invented by a Scotsman, BTW). Anyways ...
Not quite the same thing as "inventor of RADAR", as the reviewer stated. Credit where it's due .....
Not this again. Once again, Apple paid for the privilege of accessing PARC research. *sigh*
Put another way, they could take a $250M quarterly hit over four years & *still* be around!
Just how partonising and ill-informed can you get! Just because it's not from the US doesn't make it 'a fly-by-night software house'. There are plenty of US companies that fit this image. Credit where it's due; Indian companies are capable of churning out excellent software & guess what - they can even peer-audit and maintain it themselves! Who'd a thunk, eh?
That's why they have so many SEI Level 5 compliant organisations. Take a look at this report & count the Indian companies (and, hey, this was compiled in 1999. What's it like now??). Oh, look - Wipro is on the list. Surpriiise!
Oh, c'mon. The writing's been on the wall for over 20 years now. So much 'knowledge' and 'innovation' has originated from Europe and the Far East since then & it's beginning to be noticed in mainstream journals like Fast Company. Those of us in the industry have already known this for years ....
Funny enough, it's not! There's a separate 'acknowledgements' sub-menu.
Lars Knoll, et al. ( khtml ) Copyright © 1997 Martin Jones ; Copyright © 1998, 1999 Torben Weis ; Copyright © 1998, 1999, 2002 Waldo Bastian ; Copyright © 1998-2000 Lars Knoll ; Copyright © 1999, 2001 Antti Koivisto ; Copyright © 1999-2001 Harri Porten ; Copyright © 2000 Simon Hausmann ; Copyright © 2000, 2001 Dirk Mueller ; Copyright © 2000, 2001 Peter Kelly ; Copyright © 2000 Daniel Molkentin ; Copyright © 2000 Stefan Schimanski
Then follows a copy of the GPL & the Harri Porten & Univ. of Cambridge acknowledgements. It really doesn't get much better. And remember - since Steve returned to Apple, *no* internal developers are allowed put their names to any application.
(Disclaimer: I'm a developer @ Apple but I'm speaking just for myself)