The real point I want to get across is that most Firefox users who diss IE are really dissing IE6. If they'd bother to use newer versions, 7 or 8, they might find that most of their concerns have already been addressed-- from the advance press about IE9, it looks like whatever remaining gripes they have will be addressed there, as well.
Our company had a job interview about a year ago, we rejected a candidate after he told us, seriously, that he didn't use IE because it didn't have tabs. I politely informed him that IE has had tabs since 2006, and showed him the door... we can't afford to hire people that out-of-touch with reality.
From reading any Slashdot thread about Firefox, I think most Firefox users are exactly like our job applicant: entirely out-of-touch with the rest of the browser market.
Of course, those Firefox users also get mod points, so -1 Troll. C'est la vie.
Even if you compare pristine versions of browsers, IE sucks.
Sucked, past-tense. IE8 has all of the same security feature as the other browsers, and more than some. (For example, process separation-- IE8 has it, Firefox does not.) If it's "more insecure" that's because it's attacked more, because more people use it.
The real problem is that people got so used to IE6, they're still going on and on about the same old IE6 griping without updating the rhetoric to fit the current version of IE. You might not personally *like* IE8, but to claim it has worse security than, say, Firefox I believe is nothing but FUD.
IE has had extensions for ages. Longer than Firefox. They're just called Toolbars... I've never been able to get a satisfactory explanation of why Firefox extensions are better, except that there happens to be more of them.
ARGH!! Stop saying FIOS is the best bandwidth in the country. Have you heard of Optimum Online Ultra? 101Mbit down, 15 Mbit up. I'm pretty sure thats faster than FIOS 50Mbit down, 20 Mbit up. And Ultra is $100/mo compared to FIOS $140/mo.
No, but that could be because they aren't in my state. Thanks for teasing us anyway, you jerk.:)
I hate to break this to you, but Firefox is quickly falling behind. IE9 is poised to leapfrog them, technically... meanwhile Firefox's killer feature is you can install a theme to make it look like Harry Potter?
Hey Mozilla, how about process separation? Maybe we should work on that before the Strawberry Shortcake theme, eh?
Then don't visit those sites. Why is this hard for you?
More importantly, why are so many Slashdotters Luddites? It's just weird-- this is a tech site, why are you even reading it if you hate advances in technology so much?
I like Nethack, thank you very much. It's steep learning curve is part of the charm, and the fact that lots of things can kill you. It's not a game for the impatient.
I know *you* do, that wasn't my point. My point was that most people do. Most people? The thing you just described? That's not fun.
You might want to check out the Diablo series. Blizzard themselves admitted that they were inspired by Nethack (and Angband) when they made Diablo, AFAIK people still play it and is very hyped for Diablo III.
Diablo's a dungeon digger, but what's the influence other than being in the same genre? There's been craploads of dungeon diggers with randomly-generated levels.
If you want to see popular games with awful UI, you might want to check Dwarf Fortress. Manages to be way worse than Nethack (with even steeper learning curve), but is very popular.
Very popular... among the 15 Slashdotters who also love Nethack. You're deluding yourself if you honestly believe Dwarf Fortress is "very popular."
When I think "popular game with awful UI" I think, for example, Battlefield: 2142. Since it was, you know, actually popular... although its UI was significantly better than Nethack or Dwarf Fortress.
I don't try to claim that the average open source is innovative, rather I was trying to point out a huge exception (innovative dosen't mean it have to be mainstream friendly).
That's true, but it also has to be... innovative. Rogue might get a credit as being innovative, as it (likely) created the genre in the first place. But Nethack? Nope.
I have a feeling it's much easier to get developers together to make a clone of a already loved game (which then can be improved upon), than something new and original.
And that would be exactly the problem in a nutshell. It doesn't help that most open source fans don't give a shit about stealing ideas.
Nobody even likes that game, except about 15 Slashdotters who think it's the best thing ever-- normal people have either not heard of it, or stopped playing once they realized it takes three weeks to learn it's godawful UI alone.
What commercial games did it influence? Off the top of my head I can think of... maybe... Dungeon Hack and Mission: Thunderbolt. Assuming those games were influenced by it, they're different enough that they're probably just in the same genre. Of course, both Dungeon Hack and Mission: Thunderbolt have usable UIs, so they obviously weren't influenced there.
What specific feature from Nethack has influenced the industry? Its Wikipedia article's got nothing.
Come on, seriously. If Nethack is seriously the best example you got, then either: 1) You know nothing about open source games, or 2) Nobody should be debating the point that Linux games aren't innovative, because it's self-evidently true
I hope it's option 1. But I'm really starting to doubt it. Pathetic.
All Ackbar does in the movie is continually ask to retreat, and have to be talked out of it. I think this happens, 3-4 times. He's not just a giant squid, he's a coward.
The entire time I played Wesnoth (which wasn't that long, because I don't think it's all that great, but I digress), I was thinking nothing but: Warlords II, Warlords II, Warlords II.
It might be "loosely inspired" by Master of Monsters, but it's definitely "firmly inspired" by the Warlords series. If you call that "in an existing genre", then so be it, but I'm classifying it as "clone."
In any case, when people say "original game," I think it's safe to say they mean more in the vein of, say, System Shock II, or Tribes, or Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, or Halo. Games that introduce significant new features (whether or not they're in an existing genre or not) that nearly all future games also employ.
System Shock II's voice diary mechanic was taken by dozens of games since. Tribes' combat class + vehicle combat that became the foundation of the Battlefield series (among others.) Sands of Time's rewind feature* as well. Halo's auto-recharging energy shield is in a significant number FPSes now. I've never seen an open source game influence games in the same way as these commercial titles.
* Ok, I think technically Blinx: The Time Sweeper beat them to this one, but nobody remembers that title so it doesn't make for a good example.:)
If you want to try some fun and original games, take a look at something like Battle for Wesnoth or Vega Strike.
Wesnoth is a clone, though. So... horrible example.
The problem is that the games that people hype up are all clones: OpenTTD, FreeCIV, Wesnoth, Frozen Bubble, the various Quake III clones around. If you want people to start believing that open source can produce original games, start dropping the names of some original games, guys!
I haven't played Vega Strike, so I can't speak for it.
I think a much stronger argument is that when a huge segment of the population performs some act routinely without any sense of guilt, that's evidence that society as a whole doesn't consider it wrong.
Not necessarily. It could just indicate that you're reading Slashdot as a source of your information, and therefore you're simply not exposed to large communities who oppose the things Slashdotters do regularly without guilt.
I mean, I get your point, but don't make the mistake of equating Slashdot to society-at-large. I'm certain I've never seen any real evidence that the majority of people are perfectly ok with copyright infringement.
The real problem is that people are being influenced by ads. You shouldn't base your vote on how noisy somebody is, that's terrible and that's what we should be focusing on.
In an ideal world, McDonalds spending tons of money on political ads would be useless because people wouldn't pay attention to them.
And Adobe gets a lot of good PR over PDF being an open standard, yet as soon as Microsoft wants to put a PDF writer into Office they bring out the lawyers. The PS3 got a lot of goodwill by being able to run Linux, until Sony decided they didn't care about it anymore, and now the feature's gone.
Face it: a lot of companies use open source/open standards as PR, and PR only. They don't give a crap about it otherwise. I'd say most companies.
$130/sq ft for the permit? Usually commercial buildings go for $145-$300/sq ft. Maybe you meant $13/sq ft?
I'm confused by your "correction." He said $130, you say they go from $145-$300... sounds definitely close to the correct value to me. Then you propose he meant a value 10 times less? Huh?
When I did a phone interview with Google, they asked me (seriously) what a.pst file was, and what limits applied to it. Despite never having worked with Exchange or Outlook, I correctly guessed that it was an Outlook email file and the limit is likely either 2 GB or 4 GB in size. Despite the extremely good educated guess, they turned me down because I "got the question wrong."
Of course the really retarded thing is that's the kind of question I use Google to answer. Why would anybody bother keeping trivia like that in their heads when you can look it up in a third of a second?
Ugh. Google might be a great place to work, but their interviewing skills suck.
Oh, to explain that last bit; here in England we have roads where traffic speed is 70mph that you can pull onto from a T-junction. No sliproad.
Wow. Has the concept of "ramps" occurred to you Brits yet? It might save lives.
The worst I've seen in Washington State is the awful left turn from Bickford onto U.S. 2 north of Snohomish, that's basically what you're describing, except it's a wider turn and the speed limit's 60. Everything else in the state has ramps.
People don't (generally) choose Automatic because it's *easier*, people choose it because Manuals are a complete pain in the ass when you're stuck in traffic.
Take out their power grid, their radios and computers, their cell phones, and their vehicles with the EMP. And, of course, the power grids of everybody else who can see those satellites above the horizon. Then while they're going "WTF???" hit 'em with the tsunami.
Fuck yah!
Wait... was this solution supposed to *help* victims? I forgot.
Slashdot Mirror
The real point I want to get across is that most Firefox users who diss IE are really dissing IE6. If they'd bother to use newer versions, 7 or 8, they might find that most of their concerns have already been addressed-- from the advance press about IE9, it looks like whatever remaining gripes they have will be addressed there, as well.
Our company had a job interview about a year ago, we rejected a candidate after he told us, seriously, that he didn't use IE because it didn't have tabs. I politely informed him that IE has had tabs since 2006, and showed him the door... we can't afford to hire people that out-of-touch with reality.
From reading any Slashdot thread about Firefox, I think most Firefox users are exactly like our job applicant: entirely out-of-touch with the rest of the browser market.
Of course, those Firefox users also get mod points, so -1 Troll. C'est la vie.
"A communications disruption can mean only one thing... invasion!" - some shitty Star Wars movie
Even if you compare pristine versions of browsers, IE sucks.
Sucked, past-tense. IE8 has all of the same security feature as the other browsers, and more than some. (For example, process separation-- IE8 has it, Firefox does not.) If it's "more insecure" that's because it's attacked more, because more people use it.
The real problem is that people got so used to IE6, they're still going on and on about the same old IE6 griping without updating the rhetoric to fit the current version of IE. You might not personally *like* IE8, but to claim it has worse security than, say, Firefox I believe is nothing but FUD.
It could be because the Xbox 360 is better than its competitor, the PS3? (I consider the Wii mostly in a different market.)
Or, phrased more Slashdotterily, Sony screwed up the PS3 much more than Microsoft screwed up the Xbox 360.
IE has had extensions for ages. Longer than Firefox. They're just called Toolbars... I've never been able to get a satisfactory explanation of why Firefox extensions are better, except that there happens to be more of them.
I dunno. I thought FEAR 2 was pretty damned good, maybe not scary but a solid shooter with great visuals.
Lots of things are both easy, and a pain in the ass. For instance, mowing my lawn each week.
My logic is perfectly valid, you just have a weird idea of what "pain in the ass" means... it doesn't equate to "difficult," and it never has.
So weird! It's almost as if different people could have different opinions-- but that can't be right!
ARGH!! Stop saying FIOS is the best bandwidth in the country. Have you heard of Optimum Online Ultra? 101Mbit down, 15 Mbit up. I'm pretty sure thats faster than FIOS 50Mbit down, 20 Mbit up. And Ultra is $100/mo compared to FIOS $140/mo.
No, but that could be because they aren't in my state. Thanks for teasing us anyway, you jerk. :)
I hate to break this to you, but Firefox is quickly falling behind. IE9 is poised to leapfrog them, technically... meanwhile Firefox's killer feature is you can install a theme to make it look like Harry Potter?
Hey Mozilla, how about process separation? Maybe we should work on that before the Strawberry Shortcake theme, eh?
Then don't visit those sites. Why is this hard for you?
More importantly, why are so many Slashdotters Luddites? It's just weird-- this is a tech site, why are you even reading it if you hate advances in technology so much?
I like Nethack, thank you very much. It's steep learning curve is part of the charm, and the fact that lots of things can kill you. It's not a game for the impatient.
I know *you* do, that wasn't my point. My point was that most people do. Most people? The thing you just described? That's not fun.
You might want to check out the Diablo series. Blizzard themselves admitted that they were inspired by Nethack (and Angband) when they made Diablo, AFAIK people still play it and is very hyped for Diablo III.
Diablo's a dungeon digger, but what's the influence other than being in the same genre? There's been craploads of dungeon diggers with randomly-generated levels.
If you want to see popular games with awful UI, you might want to check Dwarf Fortress. Manages to be way worse than Nethack (with even steeper learning curve), but is very popular.
Very popular... among the 15 Slashdotters who also love Nethack. You're deluding yourself if you honestly believe Dwarf Fortress is "very popular."
When I think "popular game with awful UI" I think, for example, Battlefield: 2142. Since it was, you know, actually popular... although its UI was significantly better than Nethack or Dwarf Fortress.
I don't try to claim that the average open source is innovative, rather I was trying to point out a huge exception (innovative dosen't mean it have to be mainstream friendly).
That's true, but it also has to be... innovative. Rogue might get a credit as being innovative, as it (likely) created the genre in the first place. But Nethack? Nope.
I have a feeling it's much easier to get developers together to make a clone of a already loved game (which then can be improved upon), than something new and original.
And that would be exactly the problem in a nutshell. It doesn't help that most open source fans don't give a shit about stealing ideas.
That's it? That's all you got? That's pathetic.
Nobody even likes that game, except about 15 Slashdotters who think it's the best thing ever-- normal people have either not heard of it, or stopped playing once they realized it takes three weeks to learn it's godawful UI alone.
What commercial games did it influence? Off the top of my head I can think of... maybe... Dungeon Hack and Mission: Thunderbolt. Assuming those games were influenced by it, they're different enough that they're probably just in the same genre. Of course, both Dungeon Hack and Mission: Thunderbolt have usable UIs, so they obviously weren't influenced there.
What specific feature from Nethack has influenced the industry? Its Wikipedia article's got nothing.
Come on, seriously. If Nethack is seriously the best example you got, then either:
1) You know nothing about open source games, or
2) Nobody should be debating the point that Linux games aren't innovative, because it's self-evidently true
I hope it's option 1. But I'm really starting to doubt it. Pathetic.
All Ackbar does in the movie is continually ask to retreat, and have to be talked out of it. I think this happens, 3-4 times. He's not just a giant squid, he's a coward.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlords_(game_series)
The entire time I played Wesnoth (which wasn't that long, because I don't think it's all that great, but I digress), I was thinking nothing but: Warlords II, Warlords II, Warlords II.
It might be "loosely inspired" by Master of Monsters, but it's definitely "firmly inspired" by the Warlords series. If you call that "in an existing genre", then so be it, but I'm classifying it as "clone."
In any case, when people say "original game," I think it's safe to say they mean more in the vein of, say, System Shock II, or Tribes, or Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, or Halo. Games that introduce significant new features (whether or not they're in an existing genre or not) that nearly all future games also employ.
System Shock II's voice diary mechanic was taken by dozens of games since. Tribes' combat class + vehicle combat that became the foundation of the Battlefield series (among others.) Sands of Time's rewind feature* as well. Halo's auto-recharging energy shield is in a significant number FPSes now. I've never seen an open source game influence games in the same way as these commercial titles.
* Ok, I think technically Blinx: The Time Sweeper beat them to this one, but nobody remembers that title so it doesn't make for a good example. :)
If you want to try some fun and original games, take a look at something like Battle for Wesnoth or Vega Strike.
Wesnoth is a clone, though. So... horrible example.
The problem is that the games that people hype up are all clones: OpenTTD, FreeCIV, Wesnoth, Frozen Bubble, the various Quake III clones around. If you want people to start believing that open source can produce original games, start dropping the names of some original games, guys!
I haven't played Vega Strike, so I can't speak for it.
I think a much stronger argument is that when a huge segment of the population performs some act routinely without any sense of guilt, that's evidence that society as a whole doesn't consider it wrong.
Not necessarily. It could just indicate that you're reading Slashdot as a source of your information, and therefore you're simply not exposed to large communities who oppose the things Slashdotters do regularly without guilt.
I mean, I get your point, but don't make the mistake of equating Slashdot to society-at-large. I'm certain I've never seen any real evidence that the majority of people are perfectly ok with copyright infringement.
The real problem is that people are being influenced by ads. You shouldn't base your vote on how noisy somebody is, that's terrible and that's what we should be focusing on.
In an ideal world, McDonalds spending tons of money on political ads would be useless because people wouldn't pay attention to them.
And Adobe gets a lot of good PR over PDF being an open standard, yet as soon as Microsoft wants to put a PDF writer into Office they bring out the lawyers. The PS3 got a lot of goodwill by being able to run Linux, until Sony decided they didn't care about it anymore, and now the feature's gone.
Face it: a lot of companies use open source/open standards as PR, and PR only. They don't give a crap about it otherwise. I'd say most companies.
$130/sq ft for the permit? Usually commercial buildings go for $145-$300/sq ft. Maybe you meant $13/sq ft?
I'm confused by your "correction." He said $130, you say they go from $145-$300... sounds definitely close to the correct value to me. Then you propose he meant a value 10 times less? Huh?
When I did a phone interview with Google, they asked me (seriously) what a .pst file was, and what limits applied to it. Despite never having worked with Exchange or Outlook, I correctly guessed that it was an Outlook email file and the limit is likely either 2 GB or 4 GB in size. Despite the extremely good educated guess, they turned me down because I "got the question wrong."
Of course the really retarded thing is that's the kind of question I use Google to answer. Why would anybody bother keeping trivia like that in their heads when you can look it up in a third of a second?
Ugh. Google might be a great place to work, but their interviewing skills suck.
Oh, to explain that last bit; here in England we have roads where traffic speed is 70mph that you can pull onto from a T-junction. No sliproad.
Wow. Has the concept of "ramps" occurred to you Brits yet? It might save lives.
The worst I've seen in Washington State is the awful left turn from Bickford onto U.S. 2 north of Snohomish, that's basically what you're describing, except it's a wider turn and the speed limit's 60. Everything else in the state has ramps.
People don't (generally) choose Automatic because it's *easier*, people choose it because Manuals are a complete pain in the ass when you're stuck in traffic.
Wow, you co-wrote an entire book without knowing how to use punctuation? Awesome.
Take out their power grid, their radios and computers, their cell phones, and their vehicles with the EMP. And, of course, the power grids of everybody else who can see those satellites above the horizon. Then while they're going "WTF???" hit 'em with the tsunami.
Fuck yah!
Wait... was this solution supposed to *help* victims? I forgot.