Pre: Single vendor/carrier, with significant lock-in. Mildly less application lock-in with homebrew hacking, but not all that different from iPhone jailbreaking. OS updates are mandatory so this can change at any time (they're installed automatically after ten days). Palm collects obscene amounts of data on its users, so goodbye privacy
I can't speak for the other devices, but the Pre is exceptionally easy to load unapproved applications onto. In fact, Palm has conveniently published instructions for how to side-load applications right on its website! All that's needed is to download the freely-available SDK, follow Palm's instructions for putting your Pre into developer mode, connect your Pre to your computer using the USB cable that shipped in the Pre's box, and follow Palm's instructions for side-loading an application.
What root access to your Pre? Again, follow Palm's instructions for opening a terminal window on the Pre. There is no hacking involved.
Is it as open-source free as in speech? No, but it's pretty frickin' open, and there is a thriving homebrew community. There are several-times more homebrew apps than official, and Palm has embraced the homebrew community. Several apps have "graduated" from homebrew to the official app catalog.
For what it's worth, there is a google voice app in the official app catalog... which is more than we can say about our friends at Apple.
Naturally a strict dictionary definition of unlimited would defy the laws of physics. There is only but so much bandwidth available to a single handheld device in a given time period.
No reasonable consumer expects that "Unlimited" means infinity in this context. If you were offered a cellphone with "unlimited minutes" for one whole day, would you expect to be able to use more than 1440 minutes? Certainly not, because you are not an idiot and know that there are only 1440 minutes in a day.
I love how you capitalized "Unlimited" as if it really were "Unlimited" I doubt in the dictionary it states the definition of Unlimited to mean "Without limit, except in the case of a 5gb limit"
If memory serves, for Sprint's Simply Everything plan (as opposed to the "data" plans which definitely carry a 5gb average monthly usage soft limit), the definition of "unlimited" is a lot closer to the dictionary definition than your 5gb definition.
You'll want to double-check this if it's important to you, but I believe that the only limitation on your data usage on the Sprint network and for the Simply Everything plan is the bandwidth to your phone (but read the italicized text carefully!) If you're data-roaming, and/or on a Data plan, and you average over 5GB/mo for several months in a row, you might get a nastygram and possibly might be terminated.
For what it's worth, I have gone used 6-7 GB/mo several times on Sprint, and I have never been capped, harassed, terminated, or otherwise molested for my "excessive usage".
What if I need to store a petabyte of data right fricken' now? As in, not after you cobble together the parts for 2 of these Backblaze storage pods and get them set up at geographically diverse colo facilities (we need geographic redundancy, remember. With S3, I can fedex Amazon as many eSATA or USB 2.0 devices I want, and they will load the data into S3 for me over their 500Mbps links.
What if I need this data to be immediately accessible to millions of users at edge locations that are geographically close to them for low-latency?
What if I want to delete a petabyte of data tomorrow? Do I get to stop paying for the Backblaze?
Is your Backblaze solution subject to bit rot? Can you be sure?
Amazon S3 is not the solution to every storage use case, but neither is Backblaze's solution. I'm not trying to argue that Backblaze would be better served by Amazon S3--only that S3 has its place in the world.
When my kids were 3, they loved to play outside. But they also loved to text. I definitely didn't get them their own texting device, though. Just let them use my phone.
What I'm trying to say, is that texting and playing outside are not mutually exclusive. No 3 year old wants to sit still and text all day long.
No, Credit Reporting Agencies do not have immunity. They are regulated under the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
There is a whole procedure in place for disputing and removing erroneous information from your credit file. If they do not follow the FCRA, you may take legal action against the CRA.
Really, you need to sue in Federal District Court, if you want your case to be heard by a competent judge who understands the law. This is certainly possible for the pro se litigant, but it will take some studying up on procedure.
You'll need to ask yourself if the $1000 is worth it to you.
If I could use any email client, I would participate in this.
I mean, why not? I give money to charity anyway. What difference does it make to me if I go through "Centmail" or any other intermediary, as long as "Centmail" doesn't charge a fee?
I'm surprised that British people would consider much of anything expensive after visiting the UK.;)
You're right that the US is lacking in the inexpensive "postpaid" plan market (I use quotes, because all the carriers now make you pay in advance for your "postpaid" service... thinks that make you go, "Hmmm.").
We do have halfway-decent prepaid plans, though. They tend to run about $0.10/min, last time I checked. Not the cheapest by global standards, but can still be pretty economical.
If you only have two lines, you probably don't want it. It's just the Sprint Everything Data plan w/Alliant Credit Union discount (anyone may join).
Two lines would cost you $97.49 for 1500 shared min, or $48.75/mo per line. Not an improvement for you unless you decide to get smartphones and need data included. If you start having kids who "need" smartphones (ugh), that's when the savings start to kick in.
So I'm trying to figure out how much I'd be paying in Finland. My typical usage is about this: Data every day: 10EUR/mo 600 min: 38,40EUR/mo 500 SMS: 32EUR/mo
So you're telling me that in Finland, I'd spend 80,40EUR/mo, and have to buy my own phone, and incoming callers would have to pay extra to call me, and I'd have to buy a separate GPS unit, and I'd get raped with crazy roaming charges every time I traveled within the EU.
Did I miss something? Because your deal sounds terrible to me.
Ok, so your UK iPhone costs 60x24=$1440 for 600 min.
I have a Palm Pre, which if it were an individual plan would be $52.49/mo + $150 for the phone for 450 min, free nights&weekends, free data, free texts, free GPS. That's $1409.76 over 24 months.
Looks like the US phone has more features, so it is the slightly better deal. Or am I missing something?
I didn't realize you wanted so badly to compare the US to the EU, because I wasn't talking about the EU.
All I was commenting on was your assertion that there are incentives to use landlines in the US. My response was, and still is, that the US is experiencing a decline in landline market penetration.
In one illustration of the impact these changes are having, Verizon Communications Inc. had 39 million landline telephone customers in March 2008 but 35 million a year later. Over the same period, its wireless customers grew from 67 million to 87 million
Because you are paying for incoming calls, there is a strong incentive to keep a landline around and encourage other people to call it.
Well, the economist in me wants to agree with you that unmetered landline usage creates an incentive to use landlines, but the realist in me thinks you are vastly overstating this incentive--to the point of reaching an incorrect conclusion.
The fact of the matter is that, among people under age 50, US residents are ditching their landlines like crazy. Indeed, I have not had a landline since about 2001.
A quick google search tells me that 20% of US households have no landline, and an additional 15% report that they primarily use their cell phones and discourage others from calling their landlines. 40% of those aged 25-29 have no land line. (source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/twenty-percent-of-america_n_198513.html)
So incentives-be-damned, we are ditching our 2-wire analog telephone service like crazy. You might wish to reevaluate your analysis.
You're receiving a substantial discount for a family plan. It's not a fair comparison. That same plan for a single individual would cost at least twice as much and would carry a much smaller phone subsidy.
False. An individual plan would be $52.49 and have the exact same subsidy.
First off, incoming calls are not free, well it depends on the carrier, but ATT, Tmobile, Verizon and Sprint, you pay for both incoming and outgoing.
I clearly wrote "free to the caller". In Europe (and much of the rest of the world), the caller pays a fee to call a mobile phone. In the US, it costs the same as an ordinary call (typically free).
Your free calling statements, are not really free, they are built into the pricing structure of the plan, another reason why the plans are more costly.
Of course they are built in. That was the whole point of my post was to point out all the extras that are included in the cost of the line.
Unlimited SMS is not free, its a addon that you pay for, ATT for example is $20 for unlimited, $5 for 200
With Sprint, it is not an add-on and is included in the cost of the plan. The $31.87 figure I quoted was the cost of my plan per line.
Data is not unlimited, it is capped at 5G a month for nearly all of the cellular providers in the US (Soft cap for now)
It's not like OP's plan is "unlimited" in the strictest sense. Every data plan on the planet is limited by the throughput limit of the device itself. With Sprint, the soft limit is pretty soft. If you use over 5GB/mo for three months straight, you'll get a politely-worded letter to please get a data card. Ooooooh. Scary!
Also, the price point does not change if you bring your own phone to the table rather then paying for the subsidized one.
This is true. But if you're bringing your own device, why not activate it on a prepaid plan and get unmetered (there, I didn't use the "unlimited" word. Happy now, Herr Pedant?) voice/data/SMS for $45/mo or metered airtime @ $0.10/min?
So we pay more, but we get more. You have to buy your own phone, and you have to pay to call mobile phones. Also, our plans don't have to be so expensive. By way of example, I have a 4 line family plan that costs $31.87 per line. All 4 lines have:
$350 subsidy on the cost of the phone
Shared 1500 minutes peak airtime (we typically use closer to 8000 minutes total, but we never go over on peak airtime)
Unlimited 3G data
Unlimited SMS
Unlimited GPS/TV/Radio
Now I look at what I get for $31.87/mo vs. what you get for 29 Euro/mo, and I am not seeing why I should be so outraged. Which is a shame really, because I do so enjoy getting worked up.
these idiotic bachelor parties/stag dos that people go on right before they tie the knot (talk about laying the groundwork for a divorce before you're even married)..
Totally depends on the situation. For me, I had a bachelor party, and have been to several since being married, and it has not posed any problem (my wife had a bachelorette party and has been to her share as well).
The reason this didn't cause problems is that we both know what the other is comfortable with. My wife has never asked me what I did at any of these parties, but if she did, I would answer openly and honestly, because I know that I did not do anything that she would object to.
It's all a matter of trusting and being trustworthy. My wife and I also remain friends with some of our respective exes. Does this pose a problem? No, because we are totally transparent about it. If one of us started sneaking around, that would cause problems!
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Pre: Single vendor/carrier, with significant lock-in. Mildly less application lock-in with homebrew hacking, but not all that different from iPhone jailbreaking. OS updates are mandatory so this can change at any time (they're installed automatically after ten days). Palm collects obscene amounts of data on its users, so goodbye privacy
I can't speak for the other devices, but the Pre is exceptionally easy to load unapproved applications onto. In fact, Palm has conveniently published instructions for how to side-load applications right on its website! All that's needed is to download the freely-available SDK, follow Palm's instructions for putting your Pre into developer mode, connect your Pre to your computer using the USB cable that shipped in the Pre's box, and follow Palm's instructions for side-loading an application.
What root access to your Pre? Again, follow Palm's instructions for opening a terminal window on the Pre. There is no hacking involved.
Is it as open-source free as in speech? No, but it's pretty frickin' open, and there is a thriving homebrew community. There are several-times more homebrew apps than official, and Palm has embraced the homebrew community. Several apps have "graduated" from homebrew to the official app catalog.
For what it's worth, there is a google voice app in the official app catalog... which is more than we can say about our friends at Apple.
Naturally a strict dictionary definition of unlimited would defy the laws of physics. There is only but so much bandwidth available to a single handheld device in a given time period.
No reasonable consumer expects that "Unlimited" means infinity in this context. If you were offered a cellphone with "unlimited minutes" for one whole day, would you expect to be able to use more than 1440 minutes? Certainly not, because you are not an idiot and know that there are only 1440 minutes in a day.
I love how you capitalized "Unlimited" as if it really were "Unlimited" I doubt in the dictionary it states the definition of Unlimited to mean "Without limit, except in the case of a 5gb limit"
If memory serves, for Sprint's Simply Everything plan (as opposed to the "data" plans which definitely carry a 5gb average monthly usage soft limit), the definition of "unlimited" is a lot closer to the dictionary definition than your 5gb definition.
You'll want to double-check this if it's important to you, but I believe that the only limitation on your data usage on the Sprint network and for the Simply Everything plan is the bandwidth to your phone (but read the italicized text carefully!) If you're data-roaming, and/or on a Data plan, and you average over 5GB/mo for several months in a row, you might get a nastygram and possibly might be terminated.
For what it's worth, I have gone used 6-7 GB/mo several times on Sprint, and I have never been capped, harassed, terminated, or otherwise molested for my "excessive usage".
What if I need to store a petabyte of data right fricken' now? As in, not after you cobble together the parts for 2 of these Backblaze storage pods and get them set up at geographically diverse colo facilities (we need geographic redundancy, remember. With S3, I can fedex Amazon as many eSATA or USB 2.0 devices I want, and they will load the data into S3 for me over their 500Mbps links.
What if I need this data to be immediately accessible to millions of users at edge locations that are geographically close to them for low-latency?
What if I want to delete a petabyte of data tomorrow? Do I get to stop paying for the Backblaze?
Is your Backblaze solution subject to bit rot? Can you be sure?
Amazon S3 is not the solution to every storage use case, but neither is Backblaze's solution. I'm not trying to argue that Backblaze would be better served by Amazon S3--only that S3 has its place in the world.
When my kids were 3, they loved to play outside. But they also loved to text. I definitely didn't get them their own texting device, though. Just let them use my phone.
What I'm trying to say, is that texting and playing outside are not mutually exclusive. No 3 year old wants to sit still and text all day long.
No, Credit Reporting Agencies do not have immunity. They are regulated under the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
There is a whole procedure in place for disputing and removing erroneous information from your credit file. If they do not follow the FCRA, you may take legal action against the CRA.
Good luck finding a small claims court judge who:
Really, you need to sue in Federal District Court, if you want your case to be heard by a competent judge who understands the law. This is certainly possible for the pro se litigant, but it will take some studying up on procedure.
You'll need to ask yourself if the $1000 is worth it to you.
If I could use any email client, I would participate in this.
I mean, why not? I give money to charity anyway. What difference does it make to me if I go through "Centmail" or any other intermediary, as long as "Centmail" doesn't charge a fee?
I have not looked into this because I'm happy where I am, but you may be able to activate an existing handset on one of these networks.
For instance, I think you can activate any iDEN handset on Boost, and any CDMA device on Metro, etc. If you're really interested, call and ask.
You can get unlimited talk/text/web for $40-50/mo now.
Where? I daresay... you're lying.
Lying? I daresay... you're obnoxious.
Who cares what you budget your airtime at? Unlimited is unlimited. Check out MetroPCS, Cricket, Boost, and TracFone.
I'm surprised that British people would consider much of anything expensive after visiting the UK. ;)
You're right that the US is lacking in the inexpensive "postpaid" plan market (I use quotes, because all the carriers now make you pay in advance for your "postpaid" service... thinks that make you go, "Hmmm.").
We do have halfway-decent prepaid plans, though. They tend to run about $0.10/min, last time I checked. Not the cheapest by global standards, but can still be pretty economical.
I want your plan!
If you only have two lines, you probably don't want it. It's just the Sprint Everything Data plan w/Alliant Credit Union discount (anyone may join).
Two lines would cost you $97.49 for 1500 shared min, or $48.75/mo per line. Not an improvement for you unless you decide to get smartphones and need data included. If you start having kids who "need" smartphones (ugh), that's when the savings start to kick in.
So I'm trying to figure out how much I'd be paying in Finland. My typical usage is about this:
Data every day: 10EUR/mo
600 min: 38,40EUR/mo
500 SMS: 32EUR/mo
So you're telling me that in Finland, I'd spend 80,40EUR/mo, and have to buy my own phone, and incoming callers would have to pay extra to call me, and I'd have to buy a separate GPS unit, and I'd get raped with crazy roaming charges every time I traveled within the EU.
Did I miss something? Because your deal sounds terrible to me.
If you're not happy with your phone/plan/provider, change it. That's why we have local number portability.
It sounds like you might be happy with a prepaid plan where you buy the phone separately. You can get unlimited talk/text/web for $40-50/mo now.
Depending on your usage pattern, there are other types of plans, too.
It's a damned rip off. And you know it.
I'd appreciate it if you would not attempt to tell me how I feel.
I am exceptionally happy with my phones and plan. I do not feel ripped off at all with my 4 smartphone plan for $31.87 per line per month.
Ok, so your UK iPhone costs 60x24=$1440 for 600 min.
I have a Palm Pre, which if it were an individual plan would be $52.49/mo + $150 for the phone for 450 min, free nights&weekends, free data, free texts, free GPS. That's $1409.76 over 24 months.
Looks like the US phone has more features, so it is the slightly better deal. Or am I missing something?
I didn't realize you wanted so badly to compare the US to the EU, because I wasn't talking about the EU.
All I was commenting on was your assertion that there are incentives to use landlines in the US. My response was, and still is, that the US is experiencing a decline in landline market penetration.
In one illustration of the impact these changes are having, Verizon Communications Inc. had 39 million landline telephone customers in March 2008 but 35 million a year later. Over the same period, its wireless customers grew from 67 million to 87 million
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/twenty-percent-of-america_n_198513.html
Because you are paying for incoming calls, there is a strong incentive to keep a landline around and encourage other people to call it.
Well, the economist in me wants to agree with you that unmetered landline usage creates an incentive to use landlines, but the realist in me thinks you are vastly overstating this incentive--to the point of reaching an incorrect conclusion.
The fact of the matter is that, among people under age 50, US residents are ditching their landlines like crazy. Indeed, I have not had a landline since about 2001.
A quick google search tells me that 20% of US households have no landline, and an additional 15% report that they primarily use their cell phones and discourage others from calling their landlines. 40% of those aged 25-29 have no land line. (source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/twenty-percent-of-america_n_198513.html)
So incentives-be-damned, we are ditching our 2-wire analog telephone service like crazy. You might wish to reevaluate your analysis.
You're receiving a substantial discount for a family plan. It's not a fair comparison. That same plan for a single individual would cost at least twice as much and would carry a much smaller phone subsidy.
False.
An individual plan would be $52.49 and have the exact same subsidy.
First off, incoming calls are not free, well it depends on the carrier, but ATT, Tmobile, Verizon and Sprint, you pay for both incoming and outgoing.
I clearly wrote "free to the caller". In Europe (and much of the rest of the world), the caller pays a fee to call a mobile phone. In the US, it costs the same as an ordinary call (typically free).
Your free calling statements, are not really free, they are built into the pricing structure of the plan, another reason why the plans are more costly.
Of course they are built in. That was the whole point of my post was to point out all the extras that are included in the cost of the line.
Unlimited SMS is not free, its a addon that you pay for, ATT for example is $20 for unlimited, $5 for 200
With Sprint, it is not an add-on and is included in the cost of the plan. The $31.87 figure I quoted was the cost of my plan per line.
Data is not unlimited, it is capped at 5G a month for nearly all of the cellular providers in the US (Soft cap for now)
It's not like OP's plan is "unlimited" in the strictest sense. Every data plan on the planet is limited by the throughput limit of the device itself. With Sprint, the soft limit is pretty soft. If you use over 5GB/mo for three months straight, you'll get a politely-worded letter to please get a data card. Ooooooh. Scary!
Also, the price point does not change if you bring your own phone to the table rather then paying for the subsidized one.
This is true. But if you're bringing your own device, why not activate it on a prepaid plan and get unmetered (there, I didn't use the "unlimited" word. Happy now, Herr Pedant?) voice/data/SMS for $45/mo or metered airtime @ $0.10/min?
How much did your phones cost?
All of my phones have come free with the contract until my most recent phone, which was the Palm Pre.
It's even possible to get smartphones in the US for $99 or so (iPhone comes to mind).
Don't forget the phone subsidy. We don't pay full price for phones in the US.
In the US, the monthly fee includes:
So we pay more, but we get more. You have to buy your own phone, and you have to pay to call mobile phones. Also, our plans don't have to be so expensive. By way of example, I have a 4 line family plan that costs $31.87 per line. All 4 lines have:
Now I look at what I get for $31.87/mo vs. what you get for 29 Euro/mo, and I am not seeing why I should be so outraged. Which is a shame really, because I do so enjoy getting worked up.
My wife gets pissed if I watch porn.
Well, if I watch it without her, anyway. As long as I invite her, she's cool with it.
these idiotic bachelor parties/stag dos that people go on right before they tie the knot (talk about laying the groundwork for a divorce before you're even married) ..
Totally depends on the situation. For me, I had a bachelor party, and have been to several since being married, and it has not posed any problem (my wife had a bachelorette party and has been to her share as well).
The reason this didn't cause problems is that we both know what the other is comfortable with. My wife has never asked me what I did at any of these parties, but if she did, I would answer openly and honestly, because I know that I did not do anything that she would object to.
It's all a matter of trusting and being trustworthy. My wife and I also remain friends with some of our respective exes. Does this pose a problem? No, because we are totally transparent about it. If one of us started sneaking around, that would cause problems!