iPhone 3.1 Update Disables Tethering

jole writes "The newest iPhone 3.1 update intentionally removed tethering functionality from all phones operating in networks that are not Apple partners. This is not limited to hacked or jailbroken phones, but also includes expensive 'officially supported' factory-unlocked phones. To make the problem worse, Apple has made it impossible to downgrade back to a working 3.0 version for iPhone 3GS phones."

Comments

I think that

[Chrisq]

Apple fanboys really enjoy tethering. Along with aby other type of bondage.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

Who the fuck's Aby?

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

A close friend of Any

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple customers are always good for a laugh. Week after week there are more restrictions and they still buy Apple. My theory is that Apple customer either love complaining or abuse. It's a good thing, though. We'd lose a lot of entertainment without them supporting Apple.

Re:I think that

[Chrisq]

My theory is that Apple customer either love complaining or abuse.

In other words they like to take it up the arse both literally and metaphorically.

Re:I think that

[jessedorland]

I am not a Apple fan, but I gotta say if Apple came up with 500Gig iPod Touch, with bluetooth, camera, and speaker -- and it's jail breakable. I would buy it in a sec. It's one of those thing you gotta have it...

Re:I think that

[jayme0227]

As a fan of the Green Bay Packers, after watching what happened with Brett Favre, I can tell you with almost complete certainty that Apple customers do not love abuse or complaining. In their blind adoration of Favre, err, Apple, they believe that Apple can do no wrong and any notion to the contrary is heretical. Their basic argument often follows this line of thought: "If it wasn't for everyone else trying to undermine what Apple is trying to do, they wouldn't need to take all of these measures. Apple only does this because they want to create the best experience for their customers."

Re:I think that

[Amarantine]

Actually, if i read this and several other IT sites and their reader's reactions, it's the non-Apple-users who like to see iPhone-customers like that.
I know quite a few people with iPhones (and other Apple gear), and are quite happy with it, but not in your "look at how cool i am" way. It's the rest of the world that likes to apply that stereotype to them.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think that. I think that the UI on the iphone & touch really are leaps & bounds ahead of the other phones that I've seen. (I have a basic flip phone & an ancient Nano, btw.) They're just flat intuitive to use. I've played with the BB Storm; the UI stinks compared to the iphone. A friend just moved from the Storm to the iphone, and he couldn't be happier; this is a guy who doesn't give a crap about being cool, but he can now do so many neat things easily that he raves about it. I'm cheap, so I keep looking at alternatives, but really, when my wife finally insists that I get her a smartphone it's going to be an iphone. And when my ancient Palm gives up the ghost, I'm getting a Touch, despite the lack of a camera.

Re:I think that

[DesertBlade]

The iPhone does have a 99% satisfaction rating.

Re:I think that

[thestudio_bob]

"I believe that the typical iphone customer is a "look at me, I have a cool iphone" idiot."

I'm a typical iPhone user and I would like to give you another perspective. Let me take you back in time to the pre-iPhone days. I was a Verizon customer and I was constantly pissed off because every single phone I had with them would not allow me to sync ANYTHING with my Apple computer. I couldn't sync my contact, my music, my ringtones, nothing. I constantly saw all these neat little tools that allowed Windows users do this, but I was left out in the cold. I don't know if you ever had re-enter all your contacts in your phone manually, but I had to do this about 3 times and it sucked.

When the iPhone came out, I willing dumped Verizon and switched to AT&T. Not because their service is better, but because the iPhone actually allowed me to use the phone like I wanted to. Is Apple perfect? No. I think a lot of what they do is great, but things like this (disabling tethering) sucks. I'm not sure if it's completely Apple's fault. My guess is that they receive pressure from the carriers to do certain things. That's just a guess. But either way, my experience using a "phone" is about 1000% times better than what it was prior to the iPhone. Not sure if that makes me "cool" or not.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a cult to me.

Re:I think that

[lgw]

They like to keep up with the Jones'

Grammar Nazi time: possessives are always spelled like they sound. "Keeping up with the Jones's." The "s'" thing is for "plurals ending in s" not "words ending in s", except for the exceptions to the exception to the exception, of course, but "spelled like they sound" is the easy way to remember that it's "keeping up with the Jones's" but also "Davy Jones' Locker".

But then, maybe you were just following the time-honored tradition of making errors in grammar while calling someone idiot on the internet.

Re:I think that

[Ender_Stonebender]

All of those "cool little tools" for Windows users cost far more money than they were worth. ($99 to sync my contacts to the computer? Then another $99 for a different sync program if my replacement phone wasn't the same one as my previous phone? Really? Okay, I'll pay a neighborhood kid $10/hour to do it for me and it'll be done for $20.) Your problem wasn't that there was no Apple phone. It was that you were on a non-GSM provider. You could have gone to AT&T or T-Mobile even before the iPhone was out, and stored your contacts on your SIM card, and taken them with you from phone to phone - and not had to call your provider to switch phones, either.

Yes, I'm aware that there are other things people think are advantages to the iPhone. I just wanted to point out that you could have made your experiences with cell phones 500% better just by doing some goddam research instead of waiting for Apple to hand you a ready-made solution.

Re:I think that

[bhsx]

As a fan of the Chicago Bears, after watching what happened last night, FUCK YOU!
=)

Re:I think that

[andymadigan]

What the heck would be the point of being gay if you didn't?

Re:I think that

[LWATCDR]

I don't have an iPhone but your way offf base.
The iPhone does a great job as a media player and as a mobile computer. I do have an iPod Touch and I can tell you that the UI is really good as is a lot of the software. I tend to surf the web more with my iPod than I do my PC because I have it with me all the time.
My next phone will be a smartphone. It will probably be an HTC Magic, InstinctQ or a Pre. I have has Sprint for years and really like their service and price but I would love it if they offered an iPhone.

Re:I think that

[G33kDragon]

I often hesitate before busting out my iPhone to record video or check email because I feel like "the rest of the world" instantly applies that "Apple snob" stereotype to anyone who uses it... and I don't want to be "that guy." Am I alone in occasionally feeling this way?

Re:I think that

[0110011001110101]

ahem...

while calling someone *an* idiot on the internet.

*ducks*

Re:I think that

[0110011001110101]

As a fan of slashdot... WTF are you guys talking about.. bears? packers? Are we going camping?

Re:I think that

[robot_love]

Some chick who's into BDSM, apparently.

Re:I think that

[The End Of Days]

You may have forgotten, in your rush to insult, that by and large people don't care about things that have no effect on them. The majority of Apple customers aren't hurt by this and therefore have no reason to care. Your argument works for that small percentage of people who scream about software freedom, and of course that opinion gets modded up here so you feel like it's common - but in the real world, it doesn't make that much of a difference.

Re:I think that

[AnalPerfume]

If you try hard enough you can convince yourself that anything is a good thing and should be protected, look at Scientology for example. It's pathetic and funny, but there's always some gullible people ready to exclaim it. There's one thing to be a fan, to accept it's pro's and con's and love it anyway, to want to see it get better. It takes an extra step to be blind to the short comings and defend stuff that's NOT in their interests using mental gymnastics. What makes it even funnier is Apple's "luxury" price tags, these people are not only defending stuff that's not in their interests, but they're paying a fortune for the privilege. As they say, "a fool and his money are easily parted".

Re:I think that

[sleepdepzombie]

That's interesting.... Most of the iPhone and other Apple users owners in know, although not all, are all about how cool they're phones are (and by extension themselves). They can't understand why someone wouldn't want to have an Apple and be just as cool as them.

They'll grumble about Apple screwing them over yet again. However, at the end of the day the Apple cultists will make excuses and get on with proclaiming the beauty of their newly hobbled toy.

Re:I think that

[thestudio_bob]

I agree, but at the time my solutions weren't all that great. As for the research, I did. Albeit, it probably wasn't as extensive as you would like, but if I recall the big boy at the time was Palm's Trio. Which, from what I gathered from people who had one, was a big POS. It seemed no matter what my options were all the manufacturers treated the Apple platform as a second rate citizen. The only real software options were Apple's iSync. Using it never guaranteed to sync everything and what it would sync with was always spotty.

And to clarify something, when I finally was at a point were I could afford my very own smartphone (i.e. when I could justify dropping $600) the iPhone rumors were running rampant. So I held off. This was a good year and a half prior to my purchase.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

The comments sections is full of the many apple haters talking about how evil they think apple is and how much they hate Apple.

Yet there's no sign of anyone who actually has an iPhone being effected by this, surprised by this, or even caring about this.

Get a life people, this is barely even news.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

It's simple. Jailbreak your iPhone, avoid Apple's restrictions, and enjoy the hardware.

Re:I think that

[johnlcallaway]

I don't think Apple owners are snobs.

I think their stupid for spending that much on a phone that they can't even put whatever application they want on it. And one where their provider allows for reaching out and deleting applications that they did put on it.

Maybe that should be Apple's new them song ...

Reach out and delete some app
Reach out and just say NO!!!!

Re:I think that

[icebike]

Actually, I try not to show the iphone in public places, preferring to keep it in an inside pocket and use a bluetooth. No reason to tempt the snatch and run hoodies around here.

But the parent post is far too dismissive of the rampant fanboy-ism among apple users. Inspite of a dated interface, lock-down restrictions, and abusive corporate policy, they continue in their cliquish behavior in social settings, pretty much dissing any other phone that is not from Apple, while gushing over the latest fart app.

Its embarrassing. So much so, that rather than join this cabal, I keep the iphone in a pocket and try to change the subject. I'm happy with the phone, but embarrassed by the behavior of most iPhone users I meet in social settings.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me introduce my self. I'm AC. I have an iPhone, and I don't like it.

It's slow, for a device that doesn't allow to run processes in background, it hangs most of the time. Sometimes, when I'm trying to answer a call. It's buggy, and applications, despite of going through lots of "reviewing", crash unexpectedly. Calls are dropped and I get "Call Failed" constantly.

So if you ask me. It's a cool toy, yet falls short as a reliable device.

Re:I think that

[jd678]

[snip grammar nazi]...while calling someone idiot on the internet.

Ah, the tradition never fails.

Re:I think that

[TheRaven64]

I was a Verizon customer and I was constantly pissed off because every single phone I had with them would not allow me to sync ANYTHING with my Apple computer

Wait, what? There's a massive list of devices supported by iSync, which allows wireless (bluetooth) syncing between a phone and Apple's Address Book and iCal. The notable omission from the list of supported devices is... the iPhone, which requires you to plug in a wire and sync via iTunes (so you can't, for example, use bluetooth enters-range events to trigger an automatic sync when you move your phone near your computer).

Re:I think that

[turtledawn]

Typically this would be written as 'keeping up with the Joneses' which is remarkably awkward looking but does not incorrectly invoke the possessive apostrophe.

Re:I think that

[daveime]

Well if there's two of you, why don't you meet and NOT take is up the ass together. You can hold hands or something ...

Re:I think that

[daveime]

Until it either explodes or melts.

Re:I think that

[snowraver1]

I would say "keeping up with the Joneses". No apostrophe. You are not keeping up with something specific of theirs, but rather them as a group. If you were talking about your phone keeping up with the Joneses' specific phone, then that would be correct, but just keeping up with them on a status quo level, would not require an apostrophe.

Re:I think that

[default luser]

Yeah, Cutler looked uncomfortable, but give him a few weeks - he's still learning the system, and this is the first time he's ever played in a new sandbox.

Farve looked good only because nobody asked him to do anything - Farve didn't have a TD the entire first half, as AP carried the load. It also helped that Farve already did this once last year, so he knew all about the pains of QBs switching teams.

Re:I think that

[Jonny_eh]

What's this contact syncing you guys are talking about? My iphone is always synced with my gmail account using activesync. If I add a contact on my iphone, it gets added to my gmail account instantly. Couldn't be easier!

Re:I think that

[TooMuchToDo]

I'm sure 99% of retards love pudding too...

Sorry, couldn't help myself. But seriously, iPhone users are going to rate it on how "pretty" it is, not how functional it is.

Re:I think that

[CaseyB]

Grammar fail. This use is not possessive at all, it's simply the plural form of Jones: Joneses.

Re:I think that

[lwsimon]

I'll agree with this. I'm no Apple fanboi, but I recently got a iPhone 3G for $49 through AT&T. I was looking for a smartphone, and it just made sense. It has completely changed the way I keep up with my day-to-day life, too. I sync my Google Calendar and Gmail contacts over-the-air, and set up my emails to poll every 15 minutes.* I use it to keep track of everything from going to the gym to my vehicle maintenance. I've not jailbroken it yet, but that's only because I've not seen anything I just have to have.

I really like the phone. Its easy to keep clean, and I've just about stopped lugging around my laptop most of the time.

I *am* considering a Macbook Pro, though, after my experience with the iPhone. I don't care much about OSX (I've not used it), but I do like the unibody construction and the keyboard - I tend to break keyboards and laptop hardware after a year or two of hard use. The magnetic power cord is genius, as the last 3 laptops I've had have failed eventually due to the power port working its way off the motherboard one too many times, which eventually gets to the point there's nothing left to solder it back to. That one feature alone is worth $500 to me, as it probably extends the productive life of the machine 2-3x.

*This part sucks. You can only have one Exchange account, and even though I can set up my webserver to provide push notifications for my gmail, I can't do that *and* sync my calendar/contacts. I deemed the calendar more important, and every 15 minutes acceptable for email.

Re:I think that

[More_Cowbell]

This is not just about Apple. In America at least, consumers have been trained to have fanatical brand loyalty. Apple sticks out (in this case) because they made a phone that people like. I see all of my friends phones quite often... I'd say 90% of the time that any of us get together phones come out at some point. And most of those are utterly forgettable, probably because most cell phones aren't that great to begin with, while the iphone is unmistakable.
Back to my point, any time your friends get a new toy - from a camera to a car, if they like it, they show it off (obviously this does not apply to everyone). And they are also mostly going to talk up the good points of said item. It's just not that often your friends buy cars or cameras in comparison.

Re:I think that

[neoform]

Agreed. The iphone has plenty of faults, but it is by an order of magnitude better than any other phone I've ever had, and I say this having been using my 3G for a year, so that "new gadget love" phase has long since passed.

Re:I think that

[Knitebane]

Aby Normal?

Re:I think that

[dwinks616]

"I think their stupid for spending"... Before calling someone else stupid, it's best to pass 3rd grade English and learn the difference between they're and their...

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

The Key words there being Apple Computer. none of your phones worked with apple because...nothing works with apple computers. there is a reason they aren't very popular outside of the media industry field of work. if its not audio/video/presentation its useless. and its not like a pc cant do what a mac does in that field either. the best programs for that kind of work are made for apples because apples look good. thats it.

Re:I think that

[Ritchie70]

Isn't it baseball?

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhg. Welcome to my world. Linux and an iPhone. Apple gives me no love.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

sync with an apple computer...

most of us are in the business world where macs are phreakin useless >:D

Re:I think that

[fashnoboutique]

The iPhone does have a 99% satisfaction rating.

yes u are right obviously :) http://www.fashno.com/

Re:I think that

[BattleApple]

I feel like that too.. I even got a case that covers the apple logo, but I really think the percentage of people that would peg someone as an "Apple snob" is very low. The average person is fairly clueless about computers anyway, and has no idea these ridiculous OS wars even exist (at least at the level you see here).
I've never been a fan of Macs. This is the only Apple product I've ever owned. I like it, but I still wouldn't buy a mac. Any time someone has noticed I was using an iphone, they just seemed interested and wanted to know if I liked it or not.

Re:I think that

[Chunky Kibbles]

When I last went shopping for a phone, I didn't get Verizon because of exactly this. I bought a motorola razr cheap from t-mobile.

Let me sync with my mac out of the box. Phone cost: 20 dollars. Service cost: don't remember exactly but it's something like thirty bucks a month.

You make it sound like AT&T-iPhone vs Verizon are the only two games in town. In fact, they're just two of the worst. Perhaps you're into self-hate - is that why the only two options you describe both proscribe crippled hardware?

Gary (-;

Re:I think that

[chihowa]

Storing your contacts on the SIM card isn't a solution to syncing your contacts with your computer, and it's not fair to assume that not having to re-enter his contacts is the only reason he'd like to be able to sync his computer contacts with his phone (even if that is the one example he gave). Keeping contacts synced between the computer and phone has other helpful uses as well, like keeping information up to date and not having several inconsistent phone numbers/email addresses/physical addresses spread across your phones and computers. Also, SIM card or not, if he could sync with his computer, he would be able to transfer the contacts to his new phone. So at best, you've offered a different way to achieve the goal of transferring contacts.

Frankly though, unless storing contacts on SIM cards has changed since I last tried it (admittedly several years ago), there are several big disadvantages to using SIM contacts (eg, you're limited to a single phone number/address/email per entry; can you even store physical addresses?, etc)...

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

1000% times better?

Re:I think that

[us7892]

Who are the Chicago Bears? And who is Brett Favre?

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm no Apple fanboi, but [fanboiism snipped]

I'm not quick to judge, but you sound fat.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

During dinner.

Re:I think that

[Jesus_666]

Depends. I have an iPod Touch. I have it because I could get it for 35 € when I bought my MBP (which I bought because I needed a laptop and am quite happy with Apple's laptop offerings). I didn't get it for the cool factor, I got it because 35 bucks is a killer price for a fairly decent PDA that happens to have decent audio playback built in.

The iPhone... well. It's a smartphone and I still think it's a bad idea to mix a PDA with something that puts a constant battery drain on it even in low-power mode. I wouldn't get one for 35 bucks either (well, except to resell it) as I think 35 bucks is pretty expensive for a mobile phone. So yeah.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

And as a Minnesota Vikings fan, I have to add that Brett Favre sucks and is old, so that comparison doesn't quite work.

Re:I think that

[peragrin]

ACtually I only use my iphone because it is the best smart phone on the market. I tried all the others, Windows GUI isn't designed for small screens, so there goes every windows mobile device. and competitors like android and the pre only came out after Apple showed the world that to sell a smart phone to a non business person they needed to make it easier to use. I do have a small number of issues, but tethering isn't one of them. AT&T after all wants to charge you another $30 a month to allow it anyways. Look at AT&T's turn by turn navigation software. $10 a month extra, and less functionality than is already included. My issues include the inability to easily turn on and off bluetooth after receiving a call among little annoyances. however there is a reason why the iphone web browser visits more web pages than any other mobile browser. It is the only one that is usable on such a small screen.

Are apple products perfect nope, not at all, however at the end of the day they work better than just about everyone else's, for the same price. MSFT forced hardware to be standariesed. Apple is the only example left of the old school groups of doing hardware and software on one machine. SGI, is gone, Sun is fading, IBM is moving to more software. Apple is the last of the combination hardware software vendors.

Re:I think that

[peragrin]

well they spent that much for a phone they can actually use. I wouldn't even take a free andriod or windows mobile phone. they are ugly, come with dozens of tiny buttons that get crap stuck behind them, have a desktop Interface for a screen that clearly isn't a desktop.

Android should have been released well before the Iphone, not 2 years later, taking 2 more years just to equal functionality. Windows Mobile, is still stuck at 6 for that entire time, and will take at least 2 versions to come even half way there.

So i spend money for the best value of my dollar. the iphone costs slightly more but comes with better integrated, easier to use, and better designed than anything else. it's not cheap plastic that feels flimsy in your hand like the pre. the OS is responsive, and works just like you would expect t to. Hand someone an iphone and they can figure out how to use it without the 300 page manual that blackberries come with.

Re:I think that

[lwsimon]

Yep - I'm fat and you're a coward. I can go on a diet, though, and lose weight.

You'll never manage to grow some balls, though.

Re:I think that

[soundguy]

As a fan of the Green Bay Packers, after watching what happened with Brett Favre, I can tell you with almost complete certainty that Apple customers do not love abuse or complaining. In their blind adoration of Favre, err, Apple, they believe that Apple can do no wrong and any notion to the contrary is heretical. Their basic argument often follows this line of thought: "If it wasn't for everyone else trying to undermine what Apple is trying to do, they wouldn't need to take all of these measures. Apple only does this because they want to create the best experience for their customers."

"Steve Jobs only hits me because he loves me"

Re:I think that

[penguinchris]

I don't have an iPhone (or an iPod for that matter) for just that reason - but I did just buy a MacBook Pro after being an exclusive Linux user for the past few years, and I have to say, I am definitely self-conscious about being seen with it. I was something of a "Linux snob" before, so I'm certainly not an Apple snob! But, like you're saying, I know a lot of people will think I'm "that guy" if they see me with the macbook (or if I had an iPhone), and I don't want that to be the case. Pathetic, I know, but I've spent years building up my reputation as the computer and gadget guy *without* any Apple products, which makes me cool (I'm joking - I know this actually makes me seem like a dork to the population at large).

I covered up the glowing apple on the top of the macbook with gaffer's tape and drew a penguin on it (my own personal logo, not Tux) with silver sharpie just to be sure :)

Re:I think that

[mdwh2]

I have a phone from before the Iphone days, and it syncs with my PC fine. It also tethers with it fine, as it happens.

It is also much better than the phone I had previous to it, but note that I don't therefore make the false conclusion that therefore, my second phone must be the best phone ever. I realise there are plenty of phones I haven't tried, and more to the point, all phones in general get better with time, so it's hardly surprising if the latest phone you have is the best one you've had so far.

When the iPhone came out, I willing dumped Verizon and switched to AT&T.

Wait - so your original sample size was only phones on Verizon, but you made a switch for the Iphone? Perhaps the problem is just with the evidently poor choice of phones from Verizon.

Re:I think that

[KillerBob]

Storing your contacts on the SIM card isn't a solution to syncing your contacts with your computer, and it's not fair to assume that not having to re-enter his contacts is the only reason he'd like to be able to sync his computer contacts with his phone (even if that is the one example he gave). Keeping contacts synced between the computer and phone has other helpful uses as well, like keeping information up to date and not having several inconsistent phone numbers/email addresses/physical addresses spread across your phones and computers. Also, SIM card or not, if he could sync with his computer, he would be able to transfer the contacts to his new phone. So at best, you've offered a different way to achieve the goal of transferring contacts.

No, you're right. Storing them on the SIM card isn't the answer if you want to keep it in sync with your computer. However, you could easily buy a Nokia phone (there's other manufacturers who do the same, but I've had nothing but good experiences with Nokia). They include the USB Data cable with all of their phones, they never push useless bricking software to the phone on you, and their phone software, which is available for free (as in beer) download from their website allows you to sync apps/data to/from your phone, set the phone up as a tethered Internet device, and syncs the contacts on your SIM card with the ones in your Outlook or MS Mail address books.

There's other manufacturers who have the same functionality in their phones, I'm sure. But that's beside the point... my point is that you don't need to buy a $600 phone to have that functionality when a phone you can get for $50 can do the same thing. Heck, the phone I have right now (a Nokia 6086) could have been had for free if I was willing to sign a 3-year contract, and it also has an 802.11g chip built into the phone so it can be used as a VOIP phone when I'm at home, thus not using up my air time.

Frankly though, unless storing contacts on SIM cards has changed since I last tried it (admittedly several years ago), there are several big disadvantages to using SIM contacts (eg, you're limited to a single phone number/address/email per entry; can you even store physical addresses?, etc)...

The SIM card on my phone can store up to 3 phone numbers, an e-mail address, and a physical address for every contact.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure if that makes me "cool" or not.

Oh, don't you worry...

Re:I think that

[GasparGMSwordsman]

You are positing on Slashdot. That disqualifies you as from being a typical anything (except possibly sociopath), much less a typical IPod user...

Re:I think that

[ceoyoyo]

I was just thinking that today. I have yet to meet a smug Apple user. I'm constantly running into (not just here) non-Apple users who act for all the world like they're insanely jealous.

Re:I think that

[stim]

I got an iphone, its jail broken, and I love it. I also run OSX, but I built it from scratch, and didn't pay apple a dime. At some point you stop caring about what other people think about your choices in phones / operating systems and just use what you want.

Re:I think that

[Falconhell]

Its those rounded corners, it makes it easy!

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

dabullsdabullsdabullsdabulls daaaa bears.

Re:I think that

[bhtooefr]

Meanwhile, my "dozens of tiny little buttons" allow me to use my phone much more productively. And they don't get crap stuck beneath them, either.

Oh, and WinMo hasn't had a desktop UI since long before it was actually called WinMo.

Re:I think that

[mysidia]

I say if you want to be into Scientology, good for you, just leave me and other non-scientologists the h*** alone.

Similarly... if you hate scientology, or think it's ignorant, good for you, but leave the scientologists alone, let them do their own things in private, don't shout from the rooftops about how they're all a bunch of f****'ers, etc...

Tolerance = Good

Calling people with certain beliefs gullible/funny/stupid is just cruel.

And potentially dangerous. (When you openly call a system of belief stupid, some of its more adamant practitioners may want to take reprisal, even to the level of violence, in extreme cases...)

Re:I think that

[dangitman]

"The Jones" is already plural. The correct use would be "Keeping up with the Jones." The apostrophes and -es are completely unnecessary.

Re:I think that

[hairyfeet]

Actually I remember reading a sexual study done in the late 80s/early 90s of all different types of sexuality, and one of the things that stuck in my head (I'll take "useless shit" for $200 Alex) is that a full 20-30% of homosexuals have NEVER engaged in anal sex, only having oral, while at the same time nearly the exact same number of lesbians said they NEVER had oral sex, preferring fingers or the scissor maneuver.

Now while they never explained the why that was, or the reasoning behind it, it did say that those gays that didn't do anal didn't want anal either giving or receiving, just as the lesbians didn't want oral giving or receiving. So who knows why that is, but according to the study I read (It may have been one of Shere Hite's studies, I can't remember) those numbers were pretty consistent. Just one of those completely stupid pointless bits of info that gets stuck in one's head, like the fact that the female G-Spot has tissue similar to the male prostate. It is amazing how much completely pointless knowledge one can get stuck in one's head, yet I still have trouble remembering what I needed at the grocery store.

Of course if I ever get on Jeopardy! and they have a "completely useless sexual trivia" column I will kick major ass!

Re:I think that

[SteveTheNewbie]

Android was released 2 years after the iphone ? and then took two years to catch up with the current feature set ?

Lets see now.. Jun 29th 2007 - iPhone released
Today, 14th September, 2009

I think your maths might be slightly out.

Re:I think that

[phlegmboy]

Aby is the goth computer geek chick from NCIS

Re:I think that

[DJRumpy]

I'll probably get modded down for this, but I would think the vast majority of the millions of iPhone users simply don't care because they didn't look for 'unlocked' phones and they don't have a clue as to what 'jailbroken' means. This doesn't affect any of the folks who bought an iPhone via the normal outlets like Apple, and Apple store, or AT&T. They simply don't notice anything wrong to begin with. I never understood these implications that all users of Apple products are zealots. I simply like their products. They are well designed from a hardware and software perspective. I don't get excited if someone doesn't like Apple products. To each his own. I think the bulk of folks using Apple Mac's, iPhones, iPods, etc are the same. It's a piece of hardware and software, not a bible.

It seems like the only folks who ever get upset about these sorts of things are those who try to work around the system and get burned for it. There are, what? 40,000? 50,000 apps in the app store? Why in the world would someone need to jailbreak a phone to begin with? If you need some hacked app that badly then by all means by a phone or other hardware that supports it out of the box. Speak with your pocket book. Given the current trend for iPhone sales, I would suggest that most users simply don't care.

Re:I think that

[anagama]

The aluminum case will give you away still. Get some black spray paint, and if you want to be super cool, see if you can get beige.

Re:I think that

[AnalPerfume]

"Calling people with certain beliefs gullible/funny/stupid is just cruel."

In some cases that could be true, in others, like the Scientology example, it also happens to be true. I have no problem calling a spade a spade, when if the spades are busy trying to convince people they're shovels, and want all references to spades silenced.

Re:I think that

[anagama]

Not positive. I could google the answer but what a waste of bandwidth. There are things that aren't worth knowing.

Re:I think that

[mosch]

It's a feature, not a bug.

You carry an iPhone, and you drive away bigoted retards who judge people on pathetically stupid stereotypes.

Re:I think that

[johnlcallaway]

If you think an accidental grammar mistake makes me stupid (instead of just careless because I didn't review what I wrote), then I'll assume you agree that buying an iPhone on purpose must make someone positively moronic.

Re:I think that

[mosch]

Before I got an iPhone, I had a GSM BlackBerry 8800 on T-Mobile. The experiences were not similar.

BlackBerry -- I use a third party sync software that does a really mediocre job of syncing contacts from my address book to my phone and back. It routinely creates double-entries of existing contacts. It's so bad at merging information that I have to use it as a one-way sync, either going only from phone to computer, or only computer to phone. When I try to do both ways at once, it constantly munges things.

iPhone -- I add or update somebody's phone or email address to my address book, and within a few minutes that contact is synced into my phone, over the air. If I do it on the phone, my address book on my computer syncs within a few minutes as well. It's all seamless.

----

BlackBerry Media Player -- LOL horrible.... just completely and totally horrible. Sync was a pain in the ass. The usability bad, but the battery life was complete shit if I tried to use it for a day.

iPhone Media Player -- Works pretty well. Sync is easy. Menus are easy. I can listen to music all day, and not run out of battery.

Re:I think that

[bandmassa]

No point trying to reason with rabid trolls, by definition they are unreasonable.

Let them be happy believing that you can actually make your own light brighter by turning someone else's off. In the end, the real men, gay or straight, are happy in their own choices and happy to let others live with theirs.

Re:I think that

[bemymonkey]

I don't know what other people are thinking, but when I see someone using an iPhone or iPod touch, I usually think, "Ooooh, shiny!". That's pretty much it...

Re:I think that

[jfanning]

Actually it is completely Apples fault. They disabled the tethering settings on the default network configuration. That network configuration is used for all carriers who are not Apple partners. So it is totally Apples fault. What they should have done is enabled everything on the default network.

Apple has a totally American view of the mobile world. They do NOT understand unlocked phones at all and believe the only true way is that you must bend over for an carrier/operator. This is exactly the same reason that every time you change the SIM card in an iPhone you have to reactivate the phone in iTunes.

Every other unlocked GSM/UMTS phone in the world would allow all features designed by the manufacturer and they have no limitations on changing the SIM.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, easy for u to say. U don't have a laptop, so you probably don't need a laptop connect/tethering. I need that for my interent, and if my blackberry can provide that for me, apple should be able to also. As a matter of fact, i don't even think its the Apple who has that kind of restriction, I think part of it has to do with ATT trying to control the media net (not the iphone Data) from being used on iphones.

Re:I think that

[pAnkRat]

I don't care about what people think when they see me connecting my iPhone to my Mac Book Air.
(Yes, I have more money then I can spend until the end of the month, sowhat?)
Back on topic: I upgraded to 3.1 but tethering is still enabled.
I did enable it on OS 3.0 by downloading a profile here:

http://help.benm.at/

It just works (tm)

Re:I think that

[pAnkRat]

obl.

"I knew a guy who camped once, he died"

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000612

Re:I think that

[bhtooefr]

let them do their own things in private, don't shout from the rooftops about how they're all a bunch of f****'ers, etc...

Except when the group in question is a dangerous cult, and you don't want people to join them, and want their existing members to leave them, for their own welfare. Then, shouting it from the rooftops is probably a good idea - for example, protesting their churches wearing Guy Fawkes masks, and taking public transportation (in the wrong direction) to your car that's miles away so they can't track you down effectively.

Re:I think that

[bhtooefr]

And 35,000 of those are fart apps.

Anyway, my Windows Mobile phone, out of the box, lets me install whatever apps I want, and there's not even a kill switch.

With changing two registry keys, it lets me tether for free, and even without doing that, it's available as a plan option.

I have full root access to the device out of the box, too.

And, most other OSes are a similar way about applications (although I believe WinMo is the only one that still gives root access - Palm OS is dead, so...)

Android allows installation of unsigned apps after changing one option. webOS, after entering Developer Mode (and the first thing that gets installed is a homebrew app catalog that no longer needs Developer Mode to install apps.) Symbian has a website where, if you're a user and have an app that you need signed for your own use, you can get it rubberstamped. Blackberry OS allows you to get a developer key for $20, and sign whatever you want yourself, it's for after-the-fact malware control, rather than approval.

Also, this does still hurt consumers, even if they don't realize it - in fact, partially BECAUSE they don't realize it, if they realized it, they may know to give other platforms a better look.

Re:I think that

[bhtooefr]

Except Apple's hardware is just commodity PC hardware, but with EFI (which is an Intel standard, BTW) instead of BIOS. Yes, they're designing their own hardware, but with the same parts everyone else is using.

Also, have you used a WinMo phone? While some GUI elements aren't the most finger-friendly, it's not just the Windows UI dumped on a handheld device, and it hasn't been since 2000 or so. (Actually, only devices sold as having WinCE had that UI - Handheld PCs and Palm-size PCs. The PocketPC (which became the Windows Mobile PocketPC, which is what (via PocketPC Phone Edition) became the current high-end WinMo devices, now known as Windows Mobile Professional (and PocketPCs are now WinMo Classic) has its own UI. And that's not even talking about WinMo smartphones.)

Re:I think that

[mysidia]

"Dangerous cult" is a cry of the oppressor.

One person's "dangerous cult" is another person's "religion".

In ancient times, people called Christianity a dangerous cult. And it led to christians being slaughtered and many civil wars.

IOW, a belief that a religion is a cult that cf. your beliefs would consider dangerous or offensive, is not a valid reason for intolerance.

Re:I think that

[bhtooefr]

Except Verizon is legendary for crippling phones so that USB is useless, and bluetooth only works for headsets.

Re:I think that

[walshy007]

Nokia N95, more useful as an actual phone and does anything you'd like, web browser is excellent. Predates the iPhone, and no need to jailbreak, you can load any kind of native apps you like.

Are apple products perfect nope, not at all, however at the end of the day they work better than just about everyone else's, for the same price.

A phone without some form of tactile feedback is useless to me, so it depends highly on your needs

MSFT forced hardware to be standariesed.

No, they didn't, IBM made an open standard (except for the bios.. which was quickly reverse engineered), that every man and his dog replicated

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you should learn to use the Search function. If your only finding Fart Apps then you should expand your horizons a bit. There are thousands of very useful apps in the store. Although I haven't counted the 'fart' app, I suspect there are far less than 35,000.

By all means, if your happy with your Windows device then use it and be happy.

Re:I think that

[jole]

You are wrong. This affects factory unlocked phones. Bought from a "normal outlet" - not jailbroken or hacked.

Re:I think that

[hairyfeet]

Well I would say that while what you say is true as well, there IS a certain degree of truth to the stereotype. I live next to an Apple heavy college, right across the street from a coffee shop that is heavily used by the college kids. The amount of snarking between the guys that had Mac Airs and the Macbook pro guys was frankly unreal. Apparently for them having TWO high end models out seriously fucked with them, as it was hard for them to decide who was more "elite" so they descended into snarking.

So while I am sure there are those that use both Macbooks and iPhones just because they like the OS, from watching with my own two peepers I can say that there are quite a few of the "hip college" types that carry the things because of the price/status associated with them. I have found a good way to tell them apart is if A-they can tell you to the penny how much it cost, and B-if you ask them about what features make it a more attractive device than a similar MSFT one the conversation rapidly descends into a ..."but but but, it is cooler!" kind of argument.

No dissing the Apple guys, as I know some graphic artists that can explain quite articulately why Apple is a better choice for them (better memory management, ease of use, etc) but there are quite a few that fit the "Apple fanboi" stereotype to a tee, at least from what I have seen on campus. When you look out into the parking lot and see that half the cars are foreign sports cars and the other half are Toyota Prius, and all sporting the Apple logo on the rear bumpers, that you have entered the "2H1P4U" zone.

Re:I think that

[Conesus]

That depends on where you live. Here in NYC, having an iPhone means nothing more than a willingness to pay only $10-20/month more than the blackberry crowd. It's not showy or out of the ordinary to have an iPhone. In fact, having a standard flip phone, in this age of internet-ready email-anywhere connectedness, not having a smartphone in some capacity is beginning to be seen as odd. But NYC is not like the rest of the country.

Re:I think that

[twoHats]

but 87% of those are apple fanboys who are satisfied to just drool...

Re:I think that

[DJRumpy]

Actually no, it doesn't. No one in north america is able to tether right now as it hasn't been officially enabled by AT&T. There is nothing to 'miss' since the feature isn't there for folks who haven't jailbroken or hacked their phone.

Folks outside of the U.S. are fixed/re-enabled for tethering via their carrier, not via Apple.

Re:I think that

[otopico]

So maybe you are confusing Apple with Amazon. Apple doesn't 'reach out and delete apps', they simply removed them from the app store so no one else can download them.

Now Amazon, they do reach out, and delete content you have already paid for.

If you are going to throw stones, be sure you throw them at the correct target. You making shit up about a company you don't like doesn't make you insightful, it makes you dishonest.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh do shut up. Thanks to Anonymous and Encyclopedias Dramatica, we get lots of this kind of abuse of Apple users (always involving "Sexual perversion" or calling them "gay") from the onlien community. Yes, the iPhone policy of Apple sucks.. that doesnt stop the PC industry from ripping off every idea Apple introdices to the computer world. The Anonymous organization encourages steryotyping, homophobia, and totally non-nuanced, binary thinking. You cant seem to grasp that there are some great things about apple and some awful lame things, just like there is with Microsoft.

Re:I think that

[otopico]

Your sig is full of win. We need more SG1

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

They are all cult members of Anonymous/Encyclopedia Dramatica. Once ED announces that something is evil (apple users, furries, gays, blacks, jews, emo kids, etc) then they swarm into a forum and heap their closed-minded abuse as much as they can. These people suck.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're going to be a complete douchebag by pointing out other people's errors, perhaps you should learn the proper use of ellipsis.

Re:I think that

[peragrin]

IBM tried to keep the hardware closed. it wasn't supposed to be "Open"

if you have to have tactile feedback then how do you use a touchpad that is on every single laptop sold? The touchpad provides no tactile feedback until you click it. Are laptops useless to you too?

the N95 while half way decent, has a horrible user interface, one that is cumbersome, hard to navigate, and can't be done with simple motions. Tiny screens can't have complex menu systems. Tiny screens can't have little icons taking up every usable pixel of screen space. Heck Mobile safari takes up too much screen space, at times. You lose a third of visible viewing area just for the interface.

That is a poor design. The interface is the key. Hand a random stranger an iphone and watch them figure out how to use it in seconds. I have watched some people spends days and weeks and still require help to use their Windows and linux based phones.. Don't underestimate the stupidity of the average person.

Re:I think that

[bhtooefr]

And back then, Christianity may well have been a dangerous cult.

It certainly was during the time of the crusades...

Signs that your religion or sect of your religion is actually a dangerous cult:

1. Requiring that you cease communication with those that refuse to join the religion (Scientology's disconnection policy, anyone?)
2. Requiring a constant stream of money to stay in the good graces of the religion (Scientology's auditing fees, tithing in Christianity...)
3. Having a militaristic organization (Sea Org? And Christianity has plenty of examples of this in history.)
4. Violence against those that oppose the religion condoned by higher-ups within the religion.

And that's not an exhaustive list.

Re:I think that

[rantingkitten]

andy zebrowitz.

Re:I think that

[walshy007]

if you have to have tactile feedback then how do you use a touchpad that is on every single laptop sold? The touchpad provides no tactile feedback until you click it. Are laptops useless to you too?

Quite simple, on a laptop I look at the screen, with my n95 I can quite successfully navigate and do as I wish without ever looking at the screen. An ability which I do need of my phone at times. An ability which the iPhone utterly lacks.

the N95 while half way decent, has a horrible user interface, one that is cumbersome, hard to navigate, and can't be done with simple motions.

People have dealt with phones with menu systems for far longer than even the basic smartphone existed. I have given people my phone to use, for typical phone usage it is instant, push numbers and press a green button to call, Similar with sms. It is difficult to be more simpler than that.

While I'd agree the iPhone is a great pda, it is utterly horrible as a phone.

Re:I think that

[Intrinsic]

A privilege allot of people subscribe to because gadgets like the iphone enhance their identity in the minds of the people they surround themselves with. Proof that the human race, at least in the united states still has a long way to go.

Another reason why it takes a certain kind of people care about this. Free thinkers, who have broken off from the system are really the only ones that understand the ramifications these kinds of backward ass decisions will cause over time, chipping away little by little. The ones that dont wont realize what they have gotten themselves into until its too late.

Re:I think that

[CaseyB]

"The Jones" is already plural.

Where are the official rules for the pluralization of all proper names? Who's to say whether Jones pluralizes like "lens" or like "species"?

Re:I think that

[dangitman]

Because the "The Jones" refers to a family named Jones, of course it's plural. It's about context, not "official rules."

Re:I think that

[CaseyB]

I'll remember that the next time I invite all the Smith over to dinner.

Re:I think that

[nosferatu1001]

Expert or just gay.

Although I *do* like it there, just have some friends who don't. Either they don't do anal at all or are just total tops.

Hard to believe that not all gay men are alike, sorry if that shocked you. IF you're ready for another shock then not...not all gay men are camp scene queens! Incredible isnt it.

Re:I think that

[dangitman]

But you wouldn't say "The Smith," you'd say "The Smiths." I'm not sure what your point is.

Re:I think that

[CaseyB]

If Smith -> Smiths, then why do you assume Jones -> Jones instead of Jones -> Joneses? That's what I meant about "official pluralizing rules". There aren't any, so your assumption is invalid.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

You think you know, but you have no idea.

This scenario of yours in which regular, every day people are electing to join a jones town club and sacrifice themselves is pure fiction.

You and people who make stupid thoughtless posts like yours have the same inclination â"Â to simply enjoy being a jerk and making blanket statements about people and things of which you know nothing about really.

You don't know what motivates people in their actions. So you mock and insult and claim superiority for buying another product. You take pride in your blissful stupidity and moreover, your blind arrogant, senseless hostility.

It's just a product, not some religion as you'd have us believe. People like it for its pros and don't care enough about your opinion as to what its flaws are to prohibit them from buying it out of want.

The longer you choose to knowingly be such an abrasive, condescending, know-it-all in your attitude towards those who don't do everything you say, the longer you will be a jerk. if you like being a jerk, nobody can stop you.

This is probably the only kind of power you have and why you post false generalizations and hurl insults at people who just do not agree with you.

Re:I think that

[Anonymous Coward]

"I believe that the typical iphone customer is a "look at me, I have a cool iphone" idiot."

I'm a typical iPhone user and I would like to give you another perspective. Let me take you back in time to the pre-iPhone days. I was a Verizon customer and I was constantly pissed off because every single phone I had with them would not allow me to sync ANYTHING with my Apple computer. I couldn't sync my contact, my music, my ringtones, nothing. I constantly saw all these neat little tools that allowed Windows users do this, but I was left out in the cold. I don't know if you ever had re-enter all your contacts in your phone manually, but I had to do this about 3 times and it sucked.

When the iPhone came out, I willing dumped Verizon and switched to AT&T. Not because their service is better, but because the iPhone actually allowed me to use the phone like I wanted to. Is Apple perfect? No. I think a lot of what they do is great, but things like this (disabling tethering) sucks. I'm not sure if it's completely Apple's fault. My guess is that they receive pressure from the carriers to do certain things. That's just a guess. But either way, my experience using a "phone" is about 1000% times better than what it was prior to the iPhone. Not sure if that makes me "cool" or not.

Jailbreak your iphone
Install Cydia
Download PDAnet to allow tethering

!Surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

No one is surprised enough to comment.

Re:!Surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

For the life of me, I don't understand why any carrier would not want people to tether... It makes no sense at all! If I was a carrier, I would totally want everyone to tether and suggest it to everyone walking through the door. "Replace your broadband with tethering! Have a modem, tether instead! $1/MB - go for it!"

For me, if I go over my 1 GB in a month, I pay heavily for every MB. The carrier is happy. I'm less happy if I didn't expect that, but happy that I could tether at that moment.

The only way this COULD make sense is if the carrier is at fault and stupidly has some sort of "unlimited" data access. And thus cannot provide such access... which means "false advertising".

Again, carriers should be data pipe providers, nothing more. Perhaps a class action lawsuit against such carriers needs to happen and put them out of business.

Re:!Surprised

[registrar]

My contract, with Optus, says nothing about tethering. They wish to charge $10 per month for the ability to tether, but seeing I've been able to do so freely for a few months, I'm not inclined to start paying. My contract is specifically limited (500MB) and costs 35c per MB above that. So it's bandwidth I've already bought and wish to use as I see fit.

I complained to Apple, said I wouldn't be upgrading from 3.0 to 3.1 until I can return to being able to tether at no cost. I encourage everyone else to do the same.

Re:!Surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, Im surprised. I have a Nokia phone, and using it as a net modem over BT is something I take for granted and use whenever Im mobile with my laptop or my main link is down for some reason. I doubt Nokia will ever get the silly idea to remove it from Symbians BT stack. I really do not understand the reasons for doing this. Could somebody explain to me whats the point?

Re:!Surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

What I'm surprised about is that the updater that's popped up on my windows systems this morning includes the 'iPhone Configuration Utility" in the Updates list instead of the New Software list. I do not presently have the iPhone Configuration Utility installed...so there's nothing to "update". They're being sneaky bastards about this by making like it's an "update" instead of what it actually is, new software. That kind of behavior on Apple's part sucks, and is another example informing why I approach their products and software with caution. Generally good design? Sure. Good intentions? Oh, now that's something else entirely....

Re:!Surprised

[bhtooefr]

Thing is, all the carriers in the US (simultaneously, too) went from unlimited to 5 GB (and I'm pretty sure that's base 10, too, not GiB) per month. So it's not unlimited. Of course, there's no overage charges - the penalty is possibly being cut off.

Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

Palm Pre (and Pixi) has a Homebrew community with a FREE tether program.

WebOS phones are Open Source OS phones, so the Tether capability can't be disabled as it's based on Open functionality, not a closed API.

in the US, a Sprint Simply Everything plan (includes Unlimited data use) is around $1000.00 cheaper a year to have.

So, you can have an Open Source phone with a real Homebrew community, a cheaper unlimited plan and have your Tethering program UNBLOCKABLE. Sounds like the Pre is a better deal all around.

Unless you are an isnob, of course.

Re:Buy a Pre

[dmacleod808]

I love how you capitalized "Unlimited" as if it really were "Unlimited" I doubt in the dictionary it states the definition of Unlimited to mean "Without limit, except in the case of a 5gb limit"

Re:Buy a Pre

[glop]

Hi,

how can it be a 1000$ cheaper? The Iphone's ATT plan is about 1000$ a year I believe (I don't have one so I never saw the bill...).
Could you elaborate?

    Thanks

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

No, I capitalized "Unlimited" because I have capsitis and tend to overuse the shift key. I was in a hurry to post and didn't spell/caps-check my post properly.

Sorry about that.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you actually want to be able to make phone calls and use data when inside your own home. Sprint's network is by far the worst network out there right now. I'm not saying the iPhone is the best bargain in the world (in fact, it sucks, big giant balls), but at least you're getting a somewhat usable network with it. The Pre is damned because they're partnered with sprint.

Re:Buy a Pre

[truthsearch]

Or unless the Sprint coverage sucks in your area.

I live in a major metropolitan area, and unfortunately AT&T has the best coverage, by far.

Re:Buy a Pre

[EastCoastSurfer]

Sprint everything plan is $99/month according to their TV advertisements. That comes out to roughly $1200/year.

A typical iPhone plan is about the same although you don't get unlimited voice since I don't believe AT&T offers it.

When people say the iPhone will cost them $2400 they are talking over the life of a 2 year contract. Simple math shows that the Palm Pre ends up about the same.

Re:Buy a Pre

[bemymonkey]

Is the equivalent iPhone plan truly unlimited? Or are you just going off on a tangent here?

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

From here: http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/07/19/comparison-sprints-everything-plan-and-the-att-nation-plan/

Individual Plan Comparison

Sprint Everything plans vs. AT&T Nation plans for iPhone 3G:

        * Lower cost: Sprintâ(TM)s $99 Simply Everything plan offers unlimited voice, data and messaging for $99.99; AT&Tâ(TM)s unlimited voice and data plan is $129.99.
        * Text Included: Sprint includes unlimited text messaging; AT&T charges $20 for individuals ($30 for families).
        * More N&W: Sprint includes unlimited night & weekend minutes starting at 7 p.m.; AT&Tâ(TM)s unlimited night & weekend minutes start at 9 p.m.
        * More Data: Sprint includes Blackberry Internet Service, Sprint Music Premier (50 commercial-free streaming music channels, 100 local stations), Sprint TV® Premier (25+ channels of live TV, on-demand clips and full-length episodes), NFL Mobile Live and NASCAR Sprint Cup Mobile; AT&T does not include Blackberry Internet Service, streaming music channels, on-demand full-length TV episodes, NFL Mobile or NASCAR Sprint Cup Mobile.

Family Plan Comparison

Sprint Talk/Message/Data Share plans vs. AT&T FamilyTalk plans for iPhone 3G:

        * More Minutes: Sprint includes 1500 minutes in its $129.99 Talk/Message/Data Share plan; AT&Tâ(TM)s $129.99 FamilyTalk plan includes just 700 minutes.
        * Text Included: Sprint includes unlimited text messaging; AT&T charges $30 for families ($20 for individuals).
        * Lower Cost Additional Lines: Sprint offers additional lines for $19.99; AT&T additional lines are $39.99.
        * More N&W: Sprint includes unlimited night & weekend minutes starting at 7 p.m.; AT&Tâ(TM)s unlimited night & weekend minutes start at 9 p.m.
        * More Data: Sprint includes unlimited GPS Navigation, Blackberry Internet Service, Sprint Music Premier (50 commercial-free streaming music channels, 100 local stations), Sprint TV Premier (25+ channels of live TV, on-demand clips and full-length episodes), NFL Mobile and NASCAR Sprint Cup Mobile; AT&T does not include Blackberry Internet Service, streaming music channels, on-demand full-length TV episodes, NFL Mobile or NASCAR Sprint Cup Mobile.

You do the math.

Re:Buy a Pre

[TheKidWho]

Palms $70/month plan includes unlimited data/texting/mobile-mobile(Any network) calls and 450minutes for landlines/business lines.

To get an equivalent plan on the iphone would cost near $120/month, the difference being $50/month or $600/year.

Re:Buy a Pre

[CXI]

Um, I've been doing that for a long time now on Windows Mobile using home brew ROMs. I really hate hearing about all these awesome innovations by Palm and Apple that I've been using for years, but nobody cares because it's Windows Mobile! I'm also on Verizon, so I've had faster and more widespread network coverage as well (at least everywhere that I need my phone to work in the US).

Re:Buy a Pre

[cmdr_tofu]

As does Android. I installed wifi-tethering on my HTC G1 through the Android Market :) Also I have a cool keyboard on the phone (although honestly, I use my laptop to connect to it to do anything fancy)

Re:Buy a Pre

[TheKidWho]

They changed their plan, the basic(Smartphone Basic that is) $70/month plan includes unlimited mobile-mobile now.

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

Windows Mobile isn't Open Source.

If Ms cared, they could shut out tethering any time they wanted. Thankfully for you, they apparently don't care.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Colonel Korn]

Palms $70/month plan includes unlimited data/texting/mobile-mobile(Any network) calls and 450minutes for landlines/business lines.

To get an equivalent plan on the iphone would cost near $120/month, the difference being $50/month or $600/year.

The employee referral plan, which the VP of Sprint has suggested anyone interested use (he even gave his email publicly for the referral form) is $60/month and includes a few features the $70/mo plan doesn't, I believe. Somehow the taxes are a lot lower than on my previous plans, too. I pay $63/month after taxes and fees.

Re:Buy a Pre

[TheKidWho]

Interesting, too bad I bought the phone already, this would have been nice to take advantage of, overall the Pre is a great phone. Very comparable to my 1st gen iPhone functionality wise, and better in many ways.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Ephemeriis]

Yeah... Except those Pre commercials are creepy as hell.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Sprint's Unlimited data actually means unlimited...on phones. Their data cards and official tethering plans have a 5gb limit, but if you have the right phone and know how to tether it (WinMo can do it, rooted Android as well), you can download all you want.

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

Good point. So it's even cheaper now.

Also, I should correct my original post. Another poster stated that the claim is over the life of the contract (2 years) not one year. This is correct, I apologize for any confusion. it's around $500 - $600 US a year difference, which is $1000 - $1200 US per contract term.

But that's still a significant savings, and given the choice, I'd pick a cheaper, more compact, True Open Source phone over the iShackle any day.

Re:Buy a Pre

[gabebear]

It really looks like Palm doesn't want homebrew tethering http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/15/palm-webos-system-upgrades-mandatory-hacking-scene-forbidden-fr/

There are homebrew tethering options for pretty much every unlocked phone. People were installing proxy servers on their iPhones before Apple added their tethering option.

The Sprint Simply Everything plan doesn't include tethering, if you get caught tethering you will be billed $40/month(or whatever Sprint is currently selling tethering for). Where did you get the $1000 figure from?

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

Yeah, Palm REALLY needs to fire their advertising company.

Although, the blond girl is hot, in that "Borg Queen" sort of way. If you're into that sort of thing, of course.

Re:Buy a Pre

[MistrBlank]

I've homebrewed WinMO phones too. The major difference is due to the fact that it's an M$ product it's APIs aren't open, they're buggy and overall the devices run slower and are less customizable.

The end result is a phone that I spent a lot of time hacking whereas my iPhone basically did all that my xv6700 did. It only took 3 days to get to that point where I spent 6 months to get the xv6700 to a point where it was even usable, nevermind another year and a half hacking around.

Re:Buy a Pre

[atheistmonk]

(insensitive clod)

Re:Buy a Pre

[ByOhTek]

I've only had problems with sprint when I'm way out in desolate areas (mostly parts of the UP of Michigan), or in area where there's significant signal blockage (my basement, where nobody's phone works well). Aside from that, most of Ohio and adjacent states work just fine for the sprint phones I've had (and the people I've known using them). Sure it's anecdotal, but at this point, even that's more than what you've provided.

Re:Buy a Pre

[CXI]

Windows Mobile isn't Open Source.

If Ms cared, they could shut out tethering any time they wanted. Thankfully for you, they apparently don't care.

You know what, I don't care if it's open source or not, because it does the job I want it to do. Plus, MS couldn't turn it off without disabling all network access for all apps. The tethering is an app just like a browser, a mail client or any of a thousand other OPEN SOURCE pieces of software written for Windows Mobile. Simply because they aren't all available in a handy little App Store doesn't mean they don't exist. You just actually have to do a Google search or two to find them.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Chrisje]

I'd rather not, thanks, I prefer to think of myself as someone with a life.

Re:Buy a Pre

[dunkelfalke]

So you had to spend 6 months disabling copy&paste, tethering, MMS, multitasking, A2DP and other features so that your Windows Mobile phone behaves more like an iPhone?

Now that's crazy stuff.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Greyfox]

Some 5 year ago now I imported a Nokia E70 from overseas for use with T-Mobile. Not only did the phone support bluetooth and wired tethering right out of the box, but it had a generic SIP client that worked perfectly with my asterisk setup on the wifi network. T-Mobile eventually intentionally put a stop to unsigned clients (Read: My imported and unlocked phone) using their data network, which was when I dropped them. On the plus side coming from their data network makes AT&T look good, which I'm told is about the only way the AT&T service or data network could look good.

The Nokia E90 Communicator looks like an even better phone but we're not going to see it in the USA, presumably because it has similar features. Other than the shiny Apple interface and the difficulty with making it work with a US provider, the E70 was a superior phone to the iPhone for my particular needs. If I could be guaranteed that the E90 would work with a US provider and would not have its features intentionally brain damaged by the telcos, I would drop my iPhone in a heartbeat for one.

The technology has been there for years, it's the telcos screwing things up.

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

First of all, that's the OFFICIAL Palm Pre Dev Wiki, NOT the Homebrew scene. They have a few more restrictions on them as an official arm of Palm. It would help to actually RTFA you are linking to.

Secondly, While homebrew tethering programs are available for many platforms, most of those are NOT Open Source platforms and are easily locked out, much as Apple has locked out tethering on the iPhone.

Thirdly, Tethering isn't an "official" option for iPhone users either, as NONE of them are "officially" allowed by AT&T. So that point is stupid and moot.

Educate yourself a bit before you spout.

Re:Buy a Pre

[TheKidWho]

The fact that you're on slashdot is contradictory to your post.

Besides, it takes 10 seconds of middle school level math to do.

Re:Buy a Pre

[ArhcAngel]

YOU LIE!!!!!

Re:Buy a Pre

[mea37]

That's an interesting way to look at it.

If I trying to indicate that a plan were truly unlimited, I would not capitalize "unlimited"; I would be using the adjective in the normal way, and in the English language an adjective is not capitalized in normal usage. I would avoid this usage if describing something that is not, in fact, unlimited.

If, on the other hand, I were talking about a plan named the Unlimited Plan, I might well capitalize it; particularly if that's how it's branded. This usage would be applicable whether or not the plan were truly unlimited.

I guess I'm just not sure of a usage pattern where extra capitalization makes something More True.

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

I prefer to think of myself as someone with a life

An expensive one too if you can't be bothered to ever calculate the costs of anything. ;)

Re:Buy a Pre

[2names]

I prefer to think of myself as someone with a life.

So, sitting around posting in an iPhone discussion on /. is your definition of a life?

Re:Buy a Pre

[L4t3r4lu5]

Pfff, of course they could.

You do know that there are tools in the community to re-flash the radio software, don't you? They can't disable anything. The community is so large, with so many people with such in depth knowledge of how WinMobile works (bearing in mind that WinMobile 6.1 is based on Windows CE 5.0, released in 2004) that Microsoft couldn't do anything to the OS that these guys couldn't fix. I'm that confident enough in their collective ability.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Ferzerp]

My unlimited voice plan on AT&T would like to have a word with you.

Re:Buy a Pre

[gabebear]

Your original statement:

in the US, a Sprint Simply Everything plan (includes Unlimited data use) is around $1000.00 cheaper a year to have.

is FUD.

That article is over a year old and talks about saving $1000 over 2 years.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Stele]

Yes but do they run iFart?

Re:Buy a Pre

[gabebear]

This isn't about homebrew tethering(that's always been on the iPhone and still works). This is about activating the built-in tethering via a hack.

Re:Buy a Pre

[commodore64_love]

You see there's this stuff called the fine print, and it explains that "unlimited" means unlimited time, as opposed to how the ISPs used to work - which was to bill $5 per hour of use and/or limit customers to XX hours per month (like Netzero does). A lot of customers make the false assumption it means unlimited gigabytes, and I suspect marketers LIKE that misinterpretation, but that isn't what your contract states - at least that's not what my Verizon contract states.

Back to article -

Anything amusing, clever, useful is on Apple's kill list. Makes the famous 1984 ad ironic - Apple has become Big Brother. OOPS AN APPLE FANATIC IS HOLDING A GUN TO MY HEAD - What I meant to say is that Apple releases these frequent updates in order to improve the user experience, and if they turn-off certain services, it's because they believe the users will be happier without them. (cough)

Re:Buy a Pre

[TheRealMindChild]

The major difference is due to the fact that it's an M$ product it's APIs aren't open

Is that so?

they're buggy and overall the devices run slower and are less customizable.

Care to share an example? Sounds like you have plenty... or are you just recycling wrong, out-of-date groupthink?

Re:Buy a Pre

[ArhcAngel]

I've been doing that for a long time now on Windows Mobile using home brew ROMs.

90% of the road warriors out there are not using and don't want to use home brew for their business needs.

I really hate hearing about all these awesome innovations by Palm, Apple, & Windows Mobile using home brew ROMs that I've been using for years on my Blackberry, but nobody cares because it's Research In Motion (RIM)!

Tethering un-modded for years!

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

I might be missing something but if you get unlimited voice how is it so great that you get more nights and weekends???

Re:Buy a Pre

[commodore64_love]

I can't believe people pay $1200 a year to watch internet over a tiny screen.

If it was a laptop or desktop MAYBE it would be worth that since a computer can be used for actual work, but not for a tiny phone. We're talking about losing 2-3 weeks of your life (at work) in order to pay for that service. To me this is not a worthwhile trade. I'd rather spend that time at home with my kids and wife.

Re:Buy a Pre

[TRRosen]

Try $99 for a smartphone

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

No, my original statement is IN ERROR, which I pointed out in a later comment: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1367713&cid=29413387

It was only a few posts down from my original comment, would it have been THAT much trouble to read down a bit?

Re:Buy a Pre

[Reapman]

Or unless:
It's not available to you
it's on a provider that is just horrible (Up here in Canada I'd rather slit my throat then go with Bell)
It wasn't out when the iPhone was released and I don't like paying Cancellation Fee's just to switch.

My iPhone was free, and I can't afford to pay full value of the Google phones that Rogers offers up here. Pre is CDMA as far as I know so I can't get one unlocked (so much for it being a fully open phone)

Guess that makes me a Snob?

Re:Buy a Pre

[GweeDo]

Did you really just compare the 6700 to the iPhone? The 6700 was released 3-4 years ago. Wouldn't a more realistic comparison be a Touch Diamond/Pro to an iPhone? You would be very difficult to say the Diamond/Pro is lacking in features and is way more open than your iPhone.

Full Disclosure: I have a HTC Touch Pro with Windows Mobile 6.5.1 and TouchFLO 2.1.

Re:Buy a Pre

[TRRosen]

Of course thats only if they don't randomly change your plan so you end up with a $2000 phone bill for one month. This has happened to a friend of mine on sprint 3 TIMES.

Re:Buy a Pre

[aristotle-dude]

I prefer to think of myself as someone with a life

An expensive one too if you can't be bothered to ever calculate the costs of anything. ;)

No, I don't think you understand. What Chrisje is trying to say is that one's personal time is worth a lot more if you have a high paying job. So that savings that you get in exchange for lost functionality is a false bargain for many. How much is it worth to have access to your cellphone when travelling in Europe for instance?

With an iPhone, you can even roam while in Japan. Can you do that with a Pre? Nope.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Sandbags]

Sure, but then you'll be on Sprint's network, which doesn't work indoors in any of the 3 cities I go to regulary, and has virtually no reception at all in the country (even on major interstate passages).

Also, you're "unlimited" plan has a limit. 5GB on-network, 300MB off-network.

Since I can use a $59 basic plan (plus $30 for data), short of tecting (another $10 for 1500 texts). That's $90-100 for full unlimited calls (care of Google Voice and a-list) and full unlimited data (though the iPhone app store has file size limits, the rest of the net does not).

This makes my iPhone plan the SAME PRICE as your Sprint plan. Also, since I have an AT&T landline, i can not only call all AT&T mobiles for free, but also all land lines, and I don;t burn minutes from incoming or outgoing calls from any AT&T subscriber, or anyone on my a-list, or anyone who calls me via my google voice number.

Even before a-list and google voice, I have enjoyed about 1600 minutes a month average using the 450 a month plan without once exceeding my minutes (most people who call me are AT&T subscribers).

As for your homebrew community, your SDK is bareley available, there's no good marketplace established, and the few good apps that are available have comperable or better apps on the iPhone for a fraction of the price. Yes there are exceptions, but you buy 100 apps and I'll buy 100 apps and we'll see who has the lower total (if you can fine 100 unique apps for your Pre).

Also, with the money Palm blew, and their expected 1+M phones sold on launch week coming in more like 150,000, (and them predicting barely 1.5 million in 12 months to apples 11.6 million in the same time period) and on top a spiraling cost model (advertising, advertising, advertising, to try to pump demand, which since most agree the hardware feels cheap and the keyboard sucks, isn't getting them too far), there's a good chance Palm is going to be bankrupt in a couple of years tops and all those apps you have bought will be worthless as you migrate to Android (since you're obviously a hater and would never considder the Apple device even if it was both cheaper and better on all counts).

This is all assuming you;re OK with the on again/off again iTunes support which since they did not feel obligated to write their own app is basically the only (easy) way to get data in and out of your phone (it can be done, but will 90% of the general public care to figure, out how?). And if Apple sues them and adds to their mounting costs (or prevents the phone being sold and advertised with the app, which is far more likely), then they'll have REAL issues.

All this on top of what's essentiually a beta OS rushed to market that make NO guarantees of backward compatability as they move forward...

Come talk to me in 2 years when they've got version 3.0 of Palm's Pre OS on the market, an actual community (have yet to see it thus far), and some hardware I can drop without gasping, and maybe I'll reconsidder.

btw: I'm not a Mac Fanboi, I do not currently own a Mac, and I bought an iPhone only after planning on buying a Blackberry or Windows mobile and discovering it was actually cheaper over 2 years to buy an iPhoine (not including app purchases, which are far cheaper on the Apple device). I'm simply pointing out 1) your statements are wrong as are your numbers, 2) you're putting faith in an unproven device being punted by a dwindling firm, and 3) tethering IS available (to anyone who's smart enough to know to not upgrade a jailbroken or hacked device until they re-patch the jailbreak, which is NOt rocket science to learn), and won;t require a hack in 2 more weeks.

Oh, btw: Sprint terms of service: tethering is NOT supported under the everything plan. They CAN backbill you, plus penalties, if they discover you are tethering without an approved plan (which is REAL easy, mobile phones don't hit windowsupdate.com, nor adobe.com's flash updater, nor McAfee, nor any of a dozen other sites your PC will hit as soon as it ha

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

No, they run "Gas Passer", formerly "prebrewFarts". :)

Re:Buy a Pre

[drummerboybac]

Maybe you need to get a better paying job?

Re:Buy a Pre

[Sandbags]

iPhone plan is the same price:

$59 personal plan + $30 data plan + $10 text plan = $99. (ok, so it's not unlimited text, but if you;'re blowing 1500+ texts a month on top of e-mail and chat, fuck you, you're $10 more).

Take this plan, on October 20th add to it a-list and asd one of your 5 numbers use your Google Voice number. Thus free, unlimited calling...

Oh, yea, the iPhone "unlimited" is in fact unlimited (except the limits placed on a few included apple apps like the store). Sprint caps you at 5GB (300MB off-network).

Further, AT&T will be charging an addtional $25 for tethering ($55 total), not $40 more as Sprint charges to add tethering to an everything plan. so if tethering is in your future, the AT&T plan is cheaper...

Even if you don;t have access to google voice, if you have an AT&T line at home, all calls between the iPhone and ANY AT&T customer (not just mobiles) are already free. I don't have GV yet, but I only have a 900 minute plan, and spend over 1600 minutes a month average (nearly 2500 occasionally). My high month thus far has been 620 in-plan minutes and my average is about 400... Also, I don't have a text/MMS plan, I use e-mail for free!

btw: AT&T will NOT let you turn off texting entirely on your device, but they WILL let you LIMIT/block incoming texts (though not calls, which is wierd). Their text blocking system supports relational strings, and dozens of options. I have mine set to only accept calls from a single area code, from residential numbers only. That area code is in mid Alaska. I've gotten 3 texts in a year :)

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've checked unlimited is capped at 5gigs for all 3 major wireless carriers for their broadband cards. I don't know about cell phones. So this doesn't particularly surprise me. This doesn't mean I like it, but its the way things are :(

I'm waiting for them to find a way to simply disable those phones, unless they have the ability now and just don't choose to do it. Sort of defeats the purpose of having customers down the road when its available on other carriers; unless they decide to write up some funky agreement where IPhone sticks with ATT forever. Which of course would be total BS in the open market. This idea of marrying carriers and cell phone manufacturers is bad for consumers, very bad. Our options would dwindle very rapidly and I'm sure we'd get charged up the wazoo for stupid stuff.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Tetsujin]

You see there's this stuff called the fine print, and it explains that "unlimited" means unlimited time, as opposed to how the ISPs used to work - which was to bill $5 per hour of use and/or limit customers to XX hours per month (like Netzero does). A lot of customers make the false assumption it means unlimited gigabytes, and I suspect marketers LIKE that misinterpretation, but that isn't what your contract states - at least that's not what my Verizon contract states.

"Unlimited" means "unlimited". It indicates that there are no limits on what you can download or upload.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

With a $1000 savings over two years, I'd think the savvy consumer would pick up an inexpensive prepaid phone while traveling in Europe and pocket the (considerable) difference.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

ooohh ouch an *isnob*

how about they just wanna be some people who enjoy a company who puts out a good product and polished finished applications.

Hate to burst your little tech virgin bubble, but the myth that people are scared away by DRM and the likes has been proven wrong again and again. Itunes, Ipod, Itouch, Iphone; obviously these are products that have failed because of DRM and restricting controls.

Oh yeah, what happened to all the hype that Android was supposed to be the great savior and how open it was. What a dud, to put it in small words.
Sprint are a bunch of scumbags, btw.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have a life, what are you doing commenting on Slashdot?

Re:Buy a Pre

[Fujisawa Sensei]

From here: http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/07/19/comparison-sprints-everything-plan-and-the-att-nation-plan/

* More Data: Sprint includes unlimited GPS Navigation, Blackberry Internet Service, Sprint Music Premier (50 commercial-free streaming music channels, 100 local stations), Sprint TV Premier (25+ channels of live TV, on-demand clips and full-length episodes), NFL Mobile and NASCAR Sprint Cup Mobile; AT&T does not include Blackberry Internet Service, streaming music channels, on-demand full-length TV episodes, NFL Mobile or NASCAR Sprint Cup Mobile.

You do the math.

So I can actually get a service that does not include NASCAR or football?

That makes the AT&T service almost worth it.

Re:Buy a Pre

[commodore64_love]

I actually earn $48 an hour, but I still wouldn't spend $1200 on phone service (or $800 for cable tv) (or $500 for home internet). I'd rather put that money in the bank or stock market, wait for it to grow, and then retire or semiretire when I'm 40 with a few million dollars. Like Benjamin Franklin the printer did back in the 1700s.

That way I can enjoy life, rather than chaining myself to the corporate cubicle. In other words I value freedom more than toys... (shrug)

Re:Buy a Pre

[Ephemeriis]

Although, the blond girl is hot, in that "Borg Queen" sort of way. If you're into that sort of thing, of course.

That's exactly what she reminds me of...

Pale, hair yanked back as tight as possible... The way she looks back over her shoulder to talk to you, vaguely distracted...

It's like you walked in while she was busy assimilating someone, and she's showing you her new phone to distract you from the borg-to-be she's working on...

Re:Buy a Pre

[EastCoastSurfer]

That's why I said 'I don't believe.' Thanks for pointing out that they do have an unlimited voice plan though.

With AT&T and rollover minutes, it seems like an unlimited plan is overkill unless you do A LOT of talking during weekday hours.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

...but nobody cares because it's Windows Mobile!

Throw in Palm devices as well and I think you've got this whole argument wrapped up in a nutshell.

Re:Buy a Pre

[illumin8]

in the US, a Sprint Simply Everything plan (includes Unlimited data use) is around $1000.00 cheaper a year to have.

It's only $1000 cheaper if you have 4 Palm Pres vs 4 iPhones in a family plan, and it's probably not $1000 cheaper a year. Sprint uses funny math to come to these numbers. How many people do you know that have a family plan with 4 iPhone 3 GS's on it?

Re:Buy a Pre

[CXI]

True as well, but even Blackberry seems to get more love than Windows Mobile.

Re:Buy a Pre

[geminidomino]

The major difference is due to the fact that it's an M$ product it's APIs aren't open

  Is that so?

  they're buggy and overall the devices run slower and are less customizable.

Care to share an example? Sounds like you have plenty... or are you just recycling wrong, out-of-date groupthink?

Not the GP, but I have two (both on Sprint)

A) Moto Q9c. I thought this was the worst POS phone I ever put my hands on, with slow speeds, lockups, and misfeatures, so I stupidly reupped and got

B) Palm Pro (Treo 850e). I was wrong. This makes the Q9c look like a miracle of modern fucking engineering. All the problems of the Q9c, and more, including the fact that some genius decided a phone doesn't need a fucking power button, so you have to open the batter compartment and hard reset whenever WinMo decides to shit itself, which it does... often... at the worst possible times...

Re:Buy a Pre

[j-turkey]

I've homebrewed WinMO phones too. The major difference is due to the fact that it's an M$ product it's APIs aren't open, they're buggy and overall the devices run slower and are less customizable.

Your open API argument is silly, since MSFT's APIs are open, and 3rd party apps don't require approval from MSFT to run (like Apple does). Apple designed a very nice device with a beautiful interface, but Apple's policies are anti-consumer.

Re:Buy a Pre

[AHuxley]

Gun to head, lol
Reminds me of this old German comedy clip about holidays in East Germay.
A west german kid has to denounce the west and love the east.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lImz1ximbEo
I feel Apple just wants to stop VOIP for as long as it can.
As for and tethering, Apple might have done it so a carrier can offer same data plan or not.
The carrier just got the gift of software for plan differentiation ;)
They can sell you tethering in the 'pro' plans now

Re:Buy a Pre

[harmonise]

Buy a Pre

Does it work on AT&T's network?

Re:Buy a Pre

[AHuxley]

Apples real customers, the telcos are 'happier' for sure.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet you read Slashdot?

Re:Buy a Pre

[drizek]

Well Windows Mobile sucks, so yes, nobody cares.

WinMo got to where it is because for a number of years it had 0 competition. PalmOS was too 90s, Linux wasn't ready, Symbian wasn't advanced enough.

That has changed now, and I think people are trying to get as far away from WinMo as possible. There is real innovation going on in the mobile world whereas MS hasn't had a single major change to their interface since 2002.

Re:Buy a Pre

[spidrw]

Actually, I believe it really is 'unlimited,' as they're assuming you're not tethering and only using the phone to do your browsing. If you get a data card, or a tethering plan, then you'll see that limit imposed. There are scores of people who use their Pre's to listen to Pandora all day, and regularly go over 5 gb/month and never have a problem. Might that change in the future? Yes, but so far it's not a problem.

Re:Buy a Pre

[bill_kress]

> I really hate hearing about all these awesome innovations by Palm and Apple that I've been using for years,

The only innovations I'm aware of on the iPhone are multi-touch and the app store (and even that is only an innovation in so much as you have access to thousands of free, somewhat useful apps whereas on other phones you have to pay monthly for dozens of somewhat useful apps)

Nobody (who knows what's going on) ever claimed that tethering was an Apple innovation, it's just of interest to a lot of people.

What other "innovations" are people talking about?

Re:Buy a Pre

[EastCoastSurfer]

And AT&T has FAN codes that work just fine with the iPhone voice plans.

Should we compare the iPhone plan my friend has (he has a super cheap grandfathered voice plan and only had to add the $30 data so his bill is ~$50/month) to all other plans?

The only valid comparison is the advertised price of the plans. The $99 Sprint everything gives is a bit cheaper b/c it included unlimited voice. But, AT&T has rollover minutes so not everyone needs unlimited voice b/c you end up storing minutes on months you don't talk a lot.

At the end of the day using a smart phone is generally expensive no matter what. Plans with 500-1000 texts, 1200 nationwide minutes, and unlimited data are going to end up ~$100/month regardless of your carrier.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Adjust your perspective.

People aren't claiming Apple or Palm invented this or that, so much as proclaiming "Hey, very popular platform X has now implemented feature Y!"

Whereas, no one talks much shop about Windows Mobile "innovations" because WM is a loser platform.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Too Many Secrets]

There is no such thing as a winmo treo that works well! I've gone through a ton of them. Do yourself a favor, get an HTC if you want winmo, or a samsung. Those are the only sanely designed devices I've been able to find.

Re:Buy a Pre

[TheKidWho]

Sprint lowered the cost of their everything plan to $70/month. Big difference there.

Re:Buy a Pre

[b4dc0d3r]

This is the internet. You can think before you start typing. No need to type "Um", which usually means "I'm about to say something". If you're using text to speech, you can edit out those extra filler words to make your post more clear.

Unless you used it in the "I can't believe all of you are so completely stupid" sense. In that case, you're right, nobody cares.

Re:Buy a Pre

[shmlco]

Well, if tethering isn't an "official" option for Pre users w/o upgrading to a data plan, then I suspect your point is "stupid and moot" as well.

BTW, I loved this excerpt from the article, "Even worse for hackers, Palm's taking an unusually aggressive approach to webOS system updates -- they're mandatory. According to the support docs, webOS updates are automatically downloaded in the background within two days of being available..."

Automatic? Mandatory? So much for the "freedom" of open source.

Re:Buy a Pre

[oblivionboy]

Thanks Mister Snarky. You've *really* convinced me to switch there. :)

Re:Buy a Pre

[cellurl]

I would like to see a comparison or Pre, Android, etc. The Android is open, but look here where it is less-open.
http://groups.google.com/group/android-beginners/browse_thread/thread/46e20fa636d38ab1/3c385089810f3272?lnk=gst&q=can+I+block+unwanted+calls#3c385089810f3272
Also, heres where USB is difficult to access. http://groups.google.com/group/android-beginners/browse_thread/thread/bdcad59bffd68f2e/980e37088197d256?lnk=gst&q=USB+from+java#980e37088197d256
Like I said, these phone all seem like shills for T-Mobile, etc. I really thought Google would own this throughout, but I have my doubts. I keep my mind open though.... -jim

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody gives a fuck about your has-been shitty ass Windows Mobile Bullshit. We've all had or used Windows Mobile phones. I've had several. A Verizon xv6600, xv6700, several Wince2003 PDA's, and they all had one thing in common. They fucking SUCKED! Random freezes, crashes, you name it. And it always seemed to happen when you needed it most. I bought my WinMo phone because I needed a device to connect to the net on site at a moment's notice. Heh. Picture this. I'm there in the middle of work, need to look up information on a piece of hardware I'm dealing with, whip out my trusty WinMo phone and hit Pocket IE and bam! the whole phone freezes. Then when it gets over having it little cow, a helpful little balloon pops up telling me the modem was disconnected. Reboot time. There is no recovering from the modem disconnecting (whatever that means). So I reboot, will it come back up? Or will I have to pull the battery out for 5 or so minutes? Who knows? Never a dull moment with WinMo.

Really, I could go on and on but as a WinMo user, even if you are in some kind of sick abject denial, you know how it is. So now I have an Android phone. And, let me tell you, it's like when Dorothy went out of black and white and stepped into color. I never knew a phone could be as slick, intuitive and fast as this. Opera Mobile on Android is 10 times faster in Edge on T-Mobile than PIE was in EVDO on Verizon. No joke. It is over for WinMo. Only the sad fan boys like you are left holding the bag that Microsoft made.

Re:Buy a Pre

[tibman]

Seeking promotion so you can afford a 1200$ yearly phone bill is kind of crazy.

Also, i read your sig link "VICTIMS OF GOVERNMENT - Asthma Patients Left Gasping for Air - consumeraffairs.com/news04/2009/09/asthma_hfa05.html"

I think that article should be renamed to "VICTIMS OF CORPORATE GREED". From the article, the government ban on CFCs is driven by citizens to preseve the environment. The even bigger problem is her insurance company turning her down on something she worked so hard to prepare for. Now she can't do anything, jump ship to another insurance company? Hope they accept pre-existing conditions (not likely).

Re:Buy a Pre

[Sir_Lewk]

Fine then, can I spend 578,000,000 hours online in one month with one of these "unlimited plans"? I thought not, "unlimited" pah.

Re:Buy a Pre

[gabebear]

First of all, that's the OFFICIAL Palm Pre Dev Wiki, NOT the Homebrew scene. They have a few more restrictions on them as an official arm of Palm. It would help to actually RTFA you are linking to.

The homebrew scene exists by piggy backing on the official dev kit. Sprint could call up Palm at any time and stop homebrew if they decided it was hurting their network. The Pre homebrew scene relies on being able to easily access developers mode, without that it would grind to a halt (or rely on rooted/pwned phones like iPhone's hombrew scene).

While homebrew tethering programs are available for many platforms, most of those are NOT Open Source platforms and are easily locked out, much as Apple has locked out tethering on the iPhone.

I'd hardly call the Palm Pre and open-source platform. You can get some components of it under the GPL, but you can't build the whole thing yourself. That's like saying OSX and iPhoneOS are open-source because you can get the kernel source code.

Tethering isn't an "official" option for iPhone users either, as NONE of them are "officially" allowed by AT&T. So that point is stupid and moot.

I never said it was official, just that Apple had built tethering into the iPhone. ATT didn't enable it, but plenty of people figured out how to turn it on by themselves. The 3.1 update makes it so that you need a signed certificate from your provider to enable tethering(so now I guess it's official).

Palm/Sprint and Apple/ATT have the same position here; that tethering is not available. The main difference is that Apple charges $100 to develop and Palm gives it away.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Glendale2x]

HTC just gives you different problems. Like lack of drivers causing craptastic performance and no intention of releasing them. See htcclassaction.org for details. I had a PPC-6800; horrible piece of junk it was coming from a Treo 700wx. Luckily the workplace bought it and I went back to my Treo after quitting.

Re:Buy a Pre

[geminidomino]

I don't want WinMo. I wanted a full-keyboard phone with bluetooth without stupid misfeatures. The asshat at the store assured me my problems were Moto related (easy to believe, given my past experience with them), and I stupidly believed him.

I was looking at the lotus instead of the Pro, but it was using that new phone OS that disabled the ringer when a bluetooth headset was connected, and the Pro was the only keyboard phone they had that didn't have that shit...

Re:Buy a Pre

[Slashdot Parent]

I love how you capitalized "Unlimited" as if it really were "Unlimited" I doubt in the dictionary it states the definition of Unlimited to mean "Without limit, except in the case of a 5gb limit"

If memory serves, for Sprint's Simply Everything plan (as opposed to the "data" plans which definitely carry a 5gb average monthly usage soft limit), the definition of "unlimited" is a lot closer to the dictionary definition than your 5gb definition.

You'll want to double-check this if it's important to you, but I believe that the only limitation on your data usage on the Sprint network and for the Simply Everything plan is the bandwidth to your phone (but read the italicized text carefully!) If you're data-roaming, and/or on a Data plan, and you average over 5GB/mo for several months in a row, you might get a nastygram and possibly might be terminated.

For what it's worth, I have gone used 6-7 GB/mo several times on Sprint, and I have never been capped, harassed, terminated, or otherwise molested for my "excessive usage".

Re:Buy a Pre

[FireFury03]

At the end of the day using a smart phone is generally expensive no matter what.

Rubbish. Using a smart phone is generally expensive if you're an idiot, don't shop around for decent prices that suit your situation and are stupid enough believe that you're getting that "free" phone for free.

I have an HTC Dream. It cost me under £160 to buy outright (no contract) including the cost of unlocking it. Into which I put a Three PAYG SIM. Every time I top up my account balance, I get 600 inclusive SMS messages, "unlimited" inclusive on-network minutes and 150MB of inclusive data. These freebees expire after 3 months. Once my inclusive data is used up, I pay £5 per 2GB per month.

In reality, I don't really use any of the inclusive on-network minutes and don't come anywhere close to using 600 SMS messages in 3 months. I also usually route voice calls over VoIP (over 3G or Wifi). So basically I tend to spend under £5/month on average. That makes the TCO of the phone and service under £250 over 18 months. This is pretty favourable compared to the contract price T-mobile offer the HTC Dream under (ISTR the cheapest was about £100 for the phone and £20/month for 18 months at the time, giving you a TCO of about £600 over 18 months.). So just going into the T-mobile shop like the mindless masses do would have cost me almost 2.5 times as much, tied me into T-mobile for 18 months and given me no option to use any other NMO.

So yeah, if you don't use your brain and just fall for the sales patter then owning a smartphone is expensive. But shop around a little and it starts to become much more reasonable.

Re:Buy a Pre

[dwater]

Nokia N900 has tethering built-in, as does every other Nokia phone I've used (not sure about the 8800).
The N900 is quite open, I think.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Slashdot Parent]

Naturally a strict dictionary definition of unlimited would defy the laws of physics. There is only but so much bandwidth available to a single handheld device in a given time period.

No reasonable consumer expects that "Unlimited" means infinity in this context. If you were offered a cellphone with "unlimited minutes" for one whole day, would you expect to be able to use more than 1440 minutes? Certainly not, because you are not an idiot and know that there are only 1440 minutes in a day.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what he's talking about, I've been tethering with Windows Mobile for years and I have never loaded a homebrew ROM on my phone.

Used to be you had to connect to the phone like a modem and "dial" the carrier to establish a data connection. These days (since WinMo 6 I think) there's an app on the menu called "Internet Sharing" which simply bridges the data connection to your bluetooth or wifi connection.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see troll, flaimbait, or even offtopic but redundant?

Re:Buy a Pre

[amicusNYCL]

Windows Mobile isn't Open Source.

Neither is the iPhone OS, and neither is Palm's WebOS (despite having several open source components). If someone really cared about supporting open source they would be using Android. Obviously not a lot of people care enough about open source software to use Android instead of one of the others.

Re:Buy a Pre

[mrsbrisby]

T-Mobile eventually intentionally put a stop to unsigned clients

Rubbish. I don't know what you're doing wrong, but I use an AT&T-branded Blackberry 8310 with my T-mobile account. T-mobile doesn't have a 8310, so I can assure you that T-mobile not only allows "unsigned clients" (whatever the fuck that means; unlocked? different vendor-id?), but their telephone support helped me do it.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Really.... an error... I could see getting the facts of an article wrong, or using an article that is outdated, but either you were acting in bad faith or are just an idiot.

Re:Buy a Pre

[dgatwood]

Yes. If I cloned my phone and had two of them making calls on an unlimited plan, I would expect to be able to make 2880 minutes. Unless, of course, the plan explicitly forbids SIM cloning.

Re:Buy a Pre

[commodore64_love]

>>>"Unlimited" means "unlimited"

Yes except there's the fine print, and it explains that you get *unlimited time* as opposed to $5 per hour of use (like my old ISP used to do) or XX hours per month (like Netzero does). It's not the fault of the ISP you jump to false conclusions because you fail to read the contract. I suppose when you see GM or Toyota advertise "100,000 mile warranty" you assume it means the whole damn car.

Well it doesn't, and that is made clear when you read the sales contract.

READ.

Re:Buy a Pre

[asynchronous13]

From the fine print in Sprint's Simply Everything Plan: "Services are not available for use as a modem"

Re:Buy a Pre

[dwater]

Soon, you can choose the Nokia N900; maybe there'll be a Symbian phone too (that's OSS too, right?).

Re:Buy a Pre

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

WebKit based browser? Capacitive touchscreen? Slick media player? Centralized app distribution(Google doesn't fucking count)?

No? No sale.

Re:Buy a Pre

[commodore64_love]

Wow. Watching that old East German film is like watching a Nazi flick. Poor suckers. They went from no freedom under the Swastika to no freedom under the hammer-and-sickle.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Mobile devices have had tethering for years. My creaky old PocketPC has offered the ability to tether over its USB connection or through Bluetooth for years. Yes, its painfully slow (being not 3G), but it is doable. Most WM devices offer this functionality either directly out of the box, and the few that don't can be gotten to offer it with some quick Registry hacking.

Of course, the biggest drawback (which MS should be fixing in 6.5 and completely recoding in WM 7.0) is the UI. Windows Mobile was made when the tool of choice on a touch screen was a stylus. The second biggest is that it is quite Windows-centric.

However, other than those two issues, it is simple to get apps written and working for the OS. It has multiple security levels so an app can be installed with a lower access model. Finally, one can just download a .cab file and install. No central clearinghouse approving everything.

It also doesn't hurt that the development environment is a modern language (or choice of languages). Objective C is fundamentally unchanged since Jobs introduced it for the NeXT Cube in 1989. Languages have evolved far past that.

Re:Buy a Pre

[TheKidWho]

Excuse me, but are you trying to imply my Pre isn't a smartphone? Because I believe it is, and I am paying $69.99 before taxes per month for unlimited service.

Re:Buy a Pre

[EastCoastSurfer]

The problem is that you're comparing EU to the US. Yes, the EU has a lot of super cheap options for true smart phones. They also have a lot more plan to fit a particular persons usage.

You're also comparing a plan that works for you because of your usage. You don't use 600 SMS messages in 3 mos. I can hit 500 (mostly incoming from friends, calendar reminders, etc...) in 1/2 month and I consider my usage low.

You speak of this inclusive network minutes. I believe AT&T has something similar, but I'm not sure. Anyways, it doesn't sound like you actually use your phone very much, so that lower cost plan works for you. Again, find a plan that gives 1000+ texts/month, 1200+ nationwide (I guess that would be EU wide for you) minutes/month, and unlimited (yes there are always limits) data/month and then come back to me.

In the states t-mobile seems to be the cheapest option, but their service blows unless you live in a particular city and never travel.

Re:Buy a Pre

[shog9]

Eh... Comparing phone prices - and especially phone *plan* prices - between US and UK carriers might be fun, if you're bored.

But it's not terribly useful for most people actually looking to buy one.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

If I could be guaranteed that the E90 would work with a US provider and would not have its features intentionally brain damaged by the telcos, I would drop my iPhone in a heartbeat for one.

I've been using a Nokia E61i and E90 on T-Mobile's network in the US for almost 2 years. No problems for me other than EDGE speeds. I could even get Bluetooth tethering working.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Lost Engineer]

While it definitely has the capability, actual functioning of tethering on the Blackberry depends on your carrier. Sprint, for instance, disallows it.

Re:Buy a Pre

[croddy]

apple keeps ramping up the pointless restrictions and i keep looking for another smartphone with minimal moving parts -- no slidey shit, no foldy shit, and definitely no no no physical keypad. i won't buy a pre. it's got all the planned-failure mechanical parts that i bought an iphone to avoid, even if the OS is the most promising thing i've seen in a year.

the best candidate right now looks like the HTC magic/G2/mytouch/whatchamacallit, although it's still got that nasty trackball, and that disastrous headphone adapter thing, both of which will hopefully be gone by the android phone that's shipping next time i'm shopping for a phone.

i basically want something with a good browser, nice fonts (so, never a blackberry), passable email, a passable library of apps, and as few moving parts as possible. right now the iphone is the thing that comes closest to meeting those criteria, even though apple's restrictive behavior has been juvenile and borderline illegal.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone with a life, as in "I just spend my money rather than figuring out if I can save any of it?"

Re:Buy a Pre

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Not to defend WinMo, which in my opinion is crap, but there has been Bluetooth PAN sharing support (basically NAT running on the phone) since at least Windows Mobile 5. My T-Mobile Dash definitely had support for it, out of the box.

Re:Buy a Pre

[charlesnw]

Um no they haven't stopped unlocked phones from using the data network.

I have an N95 that works just fine with edge.

T-mobile doesn't offer the N95.

I just plugged in a SIM from my bb and away I went. No issues.

Re:Buy a Pre

[EastCoastSurfer]

Well to be fair the data plan is $30/month. So $360/year to have full email, chat, and web in your pocket.

It's worth it to me because when I travel I can often leave the laptop at home. It's also super useful while in unfamiliar places. The GPS driving directions work well enough to get you around. The Google maps work well at finding things when you need gas, food, etc...

Also, having a small portable device always on hand could end up netting you more time with your wife and kids. No longer do you have to go to the computer to check email. It's something you can do during any downtime moment and then get back to whatever it is you were doing. Just something to think about.

Re:Buy a Pre

[EastCoastSurfer]

I'm with you on cable TV, but sacrificing internet? I don't know if you work with technology and/or can work at home, but faster more reliable internet equates to money for many many people.

Re:Buy a Pre

[commodore64_love]

Yes but her problems (and other asthma sufferers' problems) all go back to a Treaty signed by the government to ban CFC-propelled inhalants. The government took a *working* medicine off the shelves, and replaced it with a *nonworking* medicine, and now citizens are dying or gasping for air. You talk about the insurance, but that's just a symptom of the problem.

The root CAUSE of the problem traces back to the government, and their refusal to sell working medicine.

Re:Buy a Pre

[assassinator42]

You're referring to the SERO plan? That's not public/nationwide, so it's not really fair to compare.
"Sprint wireless service is available in the 49509 area. However, this private online program is not available in this market for Sprint products. Weâ(TM)re sorry for any inconvenience and we invite you to take advantage of our latest promotional offers:"
It's apparently because of iPCS. Those are the assholes that are blocking WiMax here as well.

Re:Buy a Pre

[bluemonq]

You use homebrew ROMs if you're stuck with a provider like Verizon. Me? I've been using the Internet Sharing feature built into Windows Mobile for a long time now. No need to homebrew, just open up the program and select Connect. Done.

Re:Buy a Pre

[xaxa]

Where did you find the phone for that price? I can only see it for that on eBay (maybe).

I was looking for a new phone and almost switched to 3, but I got bored looking for an Android phone at a price I was happy with.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

I pay $79.20 per month for my iPhone plan. That is $950.40 per year. So unless Palm pays you monthly to have a Pre, there is no way it is $1000 cheaper a year to have.

Make up stuff much?

Re:Buy a Pre

[Zencyde]

I love how you capitalized "Unlimited" as if it really were "Unlimited" I doubt in the dictionary it states the definition of Unlimited to mean "Without limit, except in the case of a 5gb limit"

If memory serves, for Sprint's Simply Everything plan (as opposed to the "data" plans which definitely carry a 5gb average monthly usage soft limit), the definition of "unlimited" is a lot closer to the dictionary definition than your 5gb definition.

Math called, they want their indeterminates back.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Pete (big-pete)]

You don't use 600 SMS messages in 3 mos. I can hit 500 (mostly incoming from friends, calendar reminders, etc...) in 1/2 month and I consider my usage low.

It's worth noting that in Europe we don't count incoming SMS messages, only outgoing messages are paid for/deducted from our message allowance.

-- Pete.

Re:Buy a Pre

[ceoyoyo]

You may find out to your surprise that very little is "UNBLOCKABLE." If Sprint's network starts to get overloaded and they identify Pre owners as the culprits then they could very well block your tethering access. If they have to block or degrade all your data access, tethered or not, then so be it.

For an analogous situation see "cable ISP." You can run Linux (a, gasp, open source OS) all you want, but if your cable provider decides you're "abusing the network" then you're SOL.

Re:Buy a Pre

[mdwh2]

I agree. And it's annoying the way they charge through the roof - I mean, you can get PAYG 3G mobile Internet on a USB stick for £15 per GB, but the same company on their PAYG phone charges me £1 per 15MB, with a 15MB/day cap. The only way to get better rates seems to be with a contract, but then you're stuck paying a load of money every month.

It's also why I can't get a smart phone, as they're all on expensive contracts. I'd rather just get a netbook and a 3G stick.

Re:Buy a Pre

[ceoyoyo]

Come on. This one is strictly motivated by the carrier. Apple happily supports tethering all over the world for carriers who haven't asked them to block it. It sounds like they made a boo boo here and blocked a few users who are legitimately using their unlocked phones on non-official carriers. In other words, the default is to block, rather than to allow. I expect them to fix that. They didn't even have a block tethering option, default or otherwise, until AT&T asked them to though.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Kumiorava]

While I in general agree on the recommendation to READ the contracts you sign it's very dangerous to push all the responsibility of the contract to the individual. Definitions like "Unlimited" and "Free" have real world meaning that can be altered in contract. I just happen to have Palm Pre and Sprint General Terms. Here is example on what I basically agreed:

"Services are subject to our business policies, practices and procedures ("Policies"), including, but not limited to, our Privacy Policy and Acceptable Use Policy and Visitor Agreement - both available at our website. You agree to all of our Policies when you use our Services. Our Policies are subject to change at anytime with or without notice."

Additionally I waive my right to sue them, participate in class action or have a jury trial.

Palm side of booklets have similar intrusive clauses. They have right to disable any software for whatever reason, gather personal data, etc. In case I sell my Palm Pre and don't give this booklet to the person I sold the device to I need to immediately destroy these documents I was just reading.

This is just complete bullshit contract, but if I want to use mobile phone I do need to agree on these rules. There is no provider or device that wouldn't have exactly same or very similar clauses in their service agreement. Easiest way around this is to use common sense and not bother with the contract, just make sure about the charges and that's it. Same goes with EULA, no amount of time will be enough to read through the EULAs that come up all the time during installations, updates, etc.

Re:Buy a Pre

[mdwh2]

There is real innovation going on in the mobile world whereas MS hasn't had a single major change to their interface since 2002.

Indeed - it's just a shame we never hear about the innovation in the mobile world, as Slashdot focuses on Apple.

Re:Buy a Pre

[kristjansson]

All I know is, I got an iPhone a couple of months ago, and had to sign up for the $35/mo unlimited data plan, and haven't seen any billing higher than the $35 for data access. haven't pushed more than a few tens of megs of data via 3g, though...

Re:Buy a Pre

[mdwh2]

For this story, perhaps, but the point is that coverage on phones on Slashdot, despite it supposedly being a general tech site, is almost only ever what Apple do. And new features are often presented as if it's the first phone that has done this (if someone points out it isn't, the claim is then back-pedalled to "But it's the first to do it well!")

and even that is only an innovation in so much as you have access to thousands of free, somewhat useful apps whereas on other phones you have to pay monthly for dozens of somewhat useful apps

Other phones can use loads of free apps, and the difference is they don't need corporate approval from a single private company.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Devil's in the details... (pdf)

• Sprint may terminate service if a majority of minutes or a majority of kilobytes in a given month are used while roaming.
• Services are not available for use as a modem, in connection with server devices or host computer applications, other systems that drive continuous heavy traffic or data sessions, or as substitute for frame relay connections.

You really believe they will let you tether?

Re:Buy a Pre

[Kumiorava]

And the FDA regulation traces back to lobbying from big pharma as HFA inhalers are protected and there are no generic alternatives available. Going straight back to corporate greed and using government as a tool for profits.

Re:Buy a Pre

[drizek]

There has been a ton of WebOS and Android news in the past couple weeks and I haven't seen anything about it on /.

Re:Buy a Pre

[mdwh2]

This is the internet. You can think before you start typing. No need to type "Um", which usually means "I'm about to say something". If you're using text to speech, you can edit out those extra filler words to make your post more clear. Therefore, he clearly must have meant in it the sense of "I can't believe all of you are so completely stupid" sense.

Evidently you cared enough to make a straw man post about it.

Re:Buy a Pre

[mdwh2]

Daily Iphone headline stories - fine - but a mere comment about Windows, the (like or not) most used OS on the planet, and you blow a fuse.

But yes, Android does look interesting, not that we ever hear about that either.

Re:Buy a Pre

[mdwh2]

Centralized app distribution(Google doesn't fucking count)?

There are fucking plenty of fucking centralised app distribution places for other fucking platforms. Often it's offered by fucking networks.

Restricting it so that you can only fucking download from one fucking place doesn't count as "centralised" - I love how you spin that into a fucking feature!

Re:Buy a Pre

[TRRosen]

the discussion originated on the everything plan which is $99/month and does not allow tethering unless you add a $50 broadband plan and give up unlimited data.

Re:Buy a Pre

[d3ac0n]

Well, considering that I'm NOT rich, and my job doesn't pay so high that I can afford overseas jaunts to Japan or Europe, then I think I'll be just fine with my Pre.

Which makes an interesting point about your argument. While you obviously intended to point out the greater utility of the iPhone vis-a-vis it's ability to roam on other networks, ironically all you REALLY did was make clear that the iPhone is really only for rich elitist types who can afford to blow tons of cash on an overpriced phone and plan in between Lear jet trips to Europe.

Interestingly, my co-worker who has an iPhone, recently went to Canada (That Oh-so exotic and far off land just over the Peace Bridge from our office in downtown Buffalo NY.) and whoops! His iPhone didn't work!

Oh, he could roam, at AT&T's EXORBITANT roaming fees, but since he isn't rich either (like most folks) he decided to just turn off the cell radio in his iPhone and limit it to wifi and off network capabilities.

Needless to say, he was pretty much incommunicado except for short blurb e-mails that weekend.

Likely I would have been in the same boat with my Pre (no idea if it works in Canada or not) but even if I was, I would still be paying LESS than an iPhone user on an identical plan, and I would still have a MORE functional and Open phone.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been a long time Windows Mobile user on Verizon but switched to the iPhone this summer. In the end, it was the laggy input and the shamefully low storage options that drove me too it. I'll tell ya, I miss Verizon but not windows mobile even a little.

Re:Buy a Pre

[smoker2]

Tethering is just connection sharing. It's built in to WM, unless your provider has locked it away. You don't need a 3rd party "app".

Programs > Internet Sharing (either usb or Bluetooth)

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Palm Pre is only sold in USA. At least not here in EU. Get a Nokia N900. Almost completely open source (way more than Android and WebOS).

Re:Buy a Pre

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Restricting it to ONLY a single source is the EXTREMITY of centralization.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, with electronics, freedom is irrelevant. Give me a device that WORKS first, then worry about freedom. Unfortunately, WebOS, Android, Symbian and WinMo suck enough that iPhone OS looks good.

Re:Buy a Pre

[psiclops]

without freedom in electronics, you will only have someone else's definition of "works"

Re:Buy a Pre

[anagama]

$1000 cheaper? This "unlimited" plan would have to be $200/yr (AT&T is roughly $85-100/month). That IS a good deal ... so I check Sprint's website, $99/mo plus tax. How is this cheaper?

Re:Buy a Pre

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I'd hate to break it to you, but not everyone's interested in endlessly tweaking their phone until they get it to the point where they think it "works." That segment of the market is incredibly tiny. You may argue that the number of jailbroken iPhones is pretty big, but, why are they jailbreaking iphones instead of picking up WinMo, Android or WebOS(well, Pre) based phones? If you're savvy enough to jailbreak an iPhone i'm pretty sure getting around on Engadget or Gizmodo to shop around for a decent smart phone isn't going to be much of a challenge.

Sometimes getting pretty close out of the box is good enough.

The secret to successful vendor lock-in is making being locked-in to a platform more attractive than locked out.

Quite honestly, Apple's made me pretty happy. I don't want MMS, I don't want 5 different media players, I didn't want Copy/paste.

I want tethering but at this point, it's AT&T holding me back, not Apple.

Out of the box, the iPhone is a pretty good mobile web browser, a decent mail client, a decent MP3 player, and it's also a phone.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he's trying to prove the OP wrong by nitpicking his writing style, instead of providing actual arguments. It's a sign of a childish mentality: "you're going to beat me at basketball?? well, I'll take my ball and go home" (note: this post is ironic on purpose)

Re:Buy a Pre

[CodeBuster]

it's the telcos screwing things up.

Yes, but that is about par for the course here in the US. You have a choice between horrible, crappy, and even worse service; take your pick. The US international rank in broadband speed and availability for 2009 is 28th place...ouch. I basically have the minimum possible services and refuse to pay more until I can get South Korean or Japanese style speed and services at roughly equivalent prices.

Re:Buy a Pre

[jfanning]

You forgot to say "in the US". Most of the people complaining about the loss of tethering are in Europe. It is totally normal here to have an unlocked phone and do whatever the hell you like with it. For Apple to come in after the fact and disable features like this for an unlocked phone is unacceptable!. You can even see the difference in the names used. In the US you have "carriers" and in Europe we have "operators". Because all they do here is operate the network. They give me a bit pipe and I pay the monthly bill. Otherwise they keep their damn sticky paws off my phone.

Re:Buy a Pre

[nilbog]

Hate to break this to you, but the 1.2 WebOS update that should be hitting any day now will break mytether (the tethering app for the Pre). They have updated their modem software and mytether was a casualty.

The author has already released an update, but still.

Re:Buy a Pre

[FireFury03]

You're also comparing a plan that works for you because of your usage.

Isn't that the point though? Most people just take the plan the NMO offers them because they believe they have no choice (or at least, don't bother to investigate the alternatives), even if that plan is extremely ill-suited for their needs. If I bought a smart phone on a contract then I would be tied into a very expensive deal that isn't suited to me, because the NMO offers no other choice.

It doesn't seem disingenuous to compare a plan that works well for me with the best contract that T-mobile could offer me. Everyone has different needs: this is a point that the NMOs seem to miss, not everyone wants to send a million text messages a day and spend their entire life making voice calls. I'm not suggesting that this would work well for everyone, what I am saying is that it is worth shopping around and finding a plan that works well for you rather than just buying a contract from the very limited selection the NMO wants to offer you.

You don't use 600 SMS messages in 3 mos. I can hit 500 (mostly incoming from friends, calendar reminders, etc...) in 1/2 month

We don't pay for incoming SMS messages in europe (for some reason we have the notion that third parties shouldn't be able to cost you money without your authorisation), so your point here is moot unless you _send_ over 600 messages in 3 months.

Anyways, it doesn't sound like you actually use your phone very much, so that lower cost plan works for you.

I use my phone a lot, just not a huge amount for voice calls. I use the internet a lot from it and I use it as a palmtop computer a lot. The voice calls I do make generally get routed over VoIP anyway since these can be gatewayed to the PSTN at a lower per-minute cost than the carrier charge and integrates with my home phone system. This is why the NMO's assumption that anyone who wants a smartphone also wants to spend hundreds of hours a month making voice calls and sending SMS messages is bogus - most of my smartphone usage doesn't involve the NMO at all so why should they expect me to pay an expensive contract for services I'm not going to use?

Re:Buy a Pre

[FireFury03]

Where did you find the phone for that price?

eBay - £143. It's in perfect condition, came with all the accessories and manuals in a box, etc. Then I unlocked it for about £15 and stuck a Three SIM in it (because their PAYG tariff suited me best). Didn't really see the point in spending hundreds of pounds more on a brand new phone in exactly the same condition.

Works for me, although I was a bit annoyed to find that Vodafone's "mobile broadband" tariff (£15/GB, no expiry date) claims not to support voice calls, which is why I ended up on Three instead of Voda. Whether or not this claim is true I'm not sure, because I know for a fact that the T-mobile "mobile broadband" packages (which come as a SIM+dongle, the same as the Voda ones) will carry voice calls just fine if you stick the SIM in your phone, but I didn't feel like paying the £30 up-front cost for a Voda SIM+dongle just to find out.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

I've used HTC winmobile devices for about 4 years (latest being a touch diamond)
You know what? I gave up on them. I couldn't kid myself that winmobile is better anymore.
I tried various stock HTC roms and homebrew, damn devices just weren't stable enough, quick enough or good enough to use.
Want examples?
Battery life - an hours worth of near unusable browsing via wifi at best on a full charge
Opera browser - damn slow, heaven help trying to zoom in and out
Notifications - that alarm you set? may work depending on planetary alignment or if there's an R in the month
Phone - yes, I sure love that the phone only starts ringing 10 seconds after the caller connects
Phone moan 2 - brilliant, I can accidentally accept the call when its in my pocket.
Phone moan 3 - In a call? Display can randomly decide to come on, and your ear may choose to put you on hold, mute, etc.
Bluetooth - hmmmm, whatever stack, A2DP sounds damn lousy whatever settings, and the range is just slightly less than 2 feet before getting choppy
Stability - winmobile memory management is just poor, having to reboot a phone due to lockups or running out of memory every other day is just stupid.
App development - haha. Please wait while we have a huge pissing competition trying to see who can reverse engineer the latest POS HTC have slapped on top of windows to make it look pretty. Don't expect support as there's so many different roms that it's nigh impossible to get everyone working so devs give up after being bitched at for not getting it working under hardc0re_l337.touch_magicv213214.12.

So I got an Iphone 3gs, jailbroken and unlocked it myself.
Couldn't be happier - tethering, bluetooth that sounds great and can be listened to in a different room, goddamn speedy web browsing that doesn't take a minute to render simple webpages.
Phone? works, no accidental answering, 10 second ring lag.

Just wish that it didn't take me this long to finally admit that windows mobile sucks no matter what the device, and any advantages that it did have were fixed by jailbreaking.

Re:Buy a Pre

[bhtooefr]

Actually, a Pre has the hardware to roam in Japan - KDDI uses CDMA850.

Re:Buy a Pre

[rgviza]

No. The iPhone plan has a 6GB limit.

Re:Buy a Pre

[commodore64_love]

>>>Definitions like "Unlimited" and "Free" have real world meaning that can be altered in contract.

Yes I know. That's why you need to read the contract before you sign it. I read my Verizon contract and it clearly states unlimited means unlimited hours, not unlimited gigabytes. I suspect virtually all ISPs contracts are the same, therefore it's disingenuous for the signer to claim it means something else.

>>>I waive my right to sue them, participate in class action or have a jury trial.

Yeah except that you don't. Congressional and Constitutional law supersede contract law, as paypal.com discovered when they were drug into court and the Judge nullified large chunks of the user agreement, because he argued that citizens can not "sign away" their rights. He then order paypal to refund money to its users who had been defrauded.

Re:Buy a Pre

[commodore64_love]

Instead of $500/year for internet, I pay $180 for internet. I don't cut net service completely, just as I did not cut my cellphone service completely, but instead just downgraded to a cheaper option.

Re:Buy a Pre

[commodore64_love]

>>>regulation traces back to lobbying from big pharma

Which they would not be able to do if it were not for government politicians who signed the 1987 Clean Air Treaty that banned the CFC inhalers. So once again we're back to the root cause being - government.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

When did t-mobile drop what? I still use my E70 on my T-Mobile network to tether. They haven't locked/blocked anything from me.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

The Pre is the best deal but the iPhone is the best phone. It's just in this case you have to pay for the best.

Re:Buy a Pre

[Creepy]

Medical inhalers were exempt from the 1987 clean air treaty. The Bill Clinton government tried to get them banned in 1997 for environmental bragging rights but consumer backlash made them retract. Even if they had been banned, it was estimated that CFC emissions from inhalers were less that 2% of all CFC emissions.

    George 'W' Bush removed the exemption as his ONLY major environmental policy change in his second to last year in office, deciding that HFA inhalers were a suitable alternative. Of course, that had less to do with the environment and more to do with it directly benefiting big pharma because the HFA patents didn't expire until 2009 (I think the two patents involved were January and March), one year after the deadline for ending the sale of CFC inhalers. Environment groups lauded the change, but the CFCs involved were really an insignificant source - this battle was and always has been all about money.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/saveCFCinhalers/

Re:Buy a Pre

[Creepy]

I should add the 1996 Montreal Protocol (leading to Bill Clinton attempting to ban them in 1997) did non have an exemption for CFC inhalers, and this was the reason behind the attempted banning. I mentioned 2% - that is the CFC contribution of inhalers that I heard when it was going to be banned (meaning 98% is non-inhaler), but that estimate is too high according to some sites - less than .5%. The space shuttle alone contributes more yearly global warming gasses (ammonium perchlorate used in solid rocket boosters is horrible environmentally... but of course is exempt). Again, this was a bureaucratic move and medical company PACs contributed lots of money to get it pushed through.

I've done some additional reading and damn, HFA inhalers are even more messed up than I ever knew (and I use them, but not as often as some people - when I get bad I need to move to steroid inhalers for a few months) - HFA-134a as a propellant was tested only on healthy people, not asthmatics (gee - testing a potential allergen on asthmatics would be logical, don't you think?). Ventolin is the only one that doesn't contain corn ethanol (both corn and ethanol can be allergens). Only short term, small clinical trials were done where results are easier to manipulate. Great job FDA!

the iSheep....

[pigphish]

That love apple no matter what will flock to them anyway, pay, and not care (as long as its not Microsoft I can pretend I'm cool and tech savvy at the same time).

Re:the iSheep....

[Xaedalus]

Because you were man enough to post your opinion with your actual user name, I'm going to respond. I love Apple, and I'm a fanboi. I used to run an old Samsung phone that was the first generation to have a color screen and texting capability (don't remember what model it was, just that it was big, had an antenna and camera, and was blue). Bought that back in 2004. I resisted the whole smartphone/iPhone rush up until this year because I was on T-Mobile, I loved their service, and I didn't want to pay assloads of money. But my wife got an iPhone and was on AT&T, and she loved it. So finally this year after much nagging by her, I left T-Mobile, went to AT&T, and got an iPhone 3G for $99 plus the standard 2 year service agreement. So now I pay $15 more a month now with AT&T for unlimited data and voice than I did with T-Mobile for just 400 minutes and unlimited texts, and I get all the versatility and features that the iPhone has. I also refuse to jailbreak it because I do not want to waste my time having to dodge getting my phone bricked. It does everything I want it to do. I really don't care how much a year I'm spending, because it's within my monthly budget and I'm getting far more in terms of features than I used to. Plus, once my two year term is up, AT&T's lock on Apple will be over, and I'll be able to go back to T-Mobile with my iPhone. So now that I've bored the absolute fuck out of you with my long-winded summary, let me say this - I love Mac and iPhone because it does what I want it to do, when I want it done, with a very low minimum of hassle and cost in my opinion. This is obviously not your sentiment. But I would ask that before you just badmouth us Mac fanbois again, you consider that SOME of us chose Mac not because it's anti-MS, but because it meets our needs. Now get off my lawn :-)

Re:the iSheep....

[pigphish]

I think the point is that you cannot do with an iPhone what I can do with my WM device without jailbreaking it (and I can still do more with my pro2 even then). And most "apple fanboi's" support and are proponents of Apple regardless of how closed they are. They follow them no matter how Apple treats their customers. They are no different than M$ and in my opinion worse.

I do like their interface. Probably their only real contribution.

Re:the iSheep....

[Anonymous Coward]

As another Mac loving person/owner, I agree 99% with You. Only thing is, I do want to install and use anything I want and need on my computer, no meter if it has mobile phone functionality or not. Therefore, no iPhone for me.

And if people nag how linux is not poslihed, can't do that, ad so on, so I am going to nag about iPhone, because, as you pointed out, that's my lawn. I am still going to use linux, windows and osx.

Re:the iSheep....

[Chibi Merrow]

AT&T's lock on Apple will be over, and I'll be able to go back to T-Mobile with my iPhone.

I'm afraid that's not entirely true, based on my understanding. AT&T and T-Mobile use different 3G Frequency bands. So you can bring your iPhone to T-Mobile and get EDGE connectivity, but you'll lose 3G functionality. This is why I haven't grabbed an Android phone yet, since I'm on AT&T and I couldn't get 3G service.

Re:the iSheep....

[wasteofspace77]

AT&T's lock on Apple will be over, and I'll be able to go back to T-Mobile with my iPhone.

I'm afraid that's not entirely true, based on my understanding. AT&T and T-Mobile use different 3G Frequency bands. So you can bring your iPhone to T-Mobile and get EDGE connectivity, but you'll lose 3G functionality.

And beyond that, to use the iPhone on a non-ATT network means you need to unlock it. And to do that you need to jailbreak it. And to do that you need to be running a jailbreakable+unlockable release which at this point in time, means not OS 3.1. Altogether much hassle that the original poster didn't want.

Re:the iSheep....

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you were man enough to post your opinion with your actual user name, I'm going to respond. I love Apple, and I'm a fanboi. I used to run an old Samsung phone that was the first generation to have a color screen and texting capability (don't remember what model it was, just that it was big, had an antenna and camera, and was blue). Bought that back in 2004. I resisted the whole smartphone/iPhone rush up until this year because I was on T-Mobile, I loved their service, and I didn't want to pay assloads of money. But my wife got an iPhone and was on AT&T, and she loved it. So finally this year after much nagging by her, I left T-Mobile, went to AT&T, and got an iPhone 3G for $99 plus the standard 2 year service agreement. So now I pay $15 more a month now with AT&T for unlimited data and voice than I did with T-Mobile for just 400 minutes and unlimited texts, and I get all the versatility and features that the iPhone has. I also refuse to jailbreak it because I do not want to waste my time having to dodge getting my phone bricked. It does everything I want it to do. I really don't care how much a year I'm spending, because it's within my monthly budget and I'm getting far more in terms of features than I used to. Plus, once my two year term is up, AT&T's lock on Apple will be over, and I'll be able to go back to T-Mobile with my iPhone. So now that I've bored the absolute fuck out of you with my long-winded summary, let me say this - I love Mac and iPhone because it does what I want it to do, when I want it done, with a very low minimum of hassle and cost in my opinion. This is obviously not your sentiment. But I would ask that before you just badmouth us Mac fanbois again, you consider that SOME of us chose Mac not because it's anti-MS, but because it meets our needs. Now get off my lawn :-)

Because you were man enough to post your opinion with your actual user name, I'm going to respond. I love Android, and I'm a fanboy. I used to run an old Nokia phone that was the first generation to have UMA capability (don't remember what model it was, just that it was silver). Bought that back in 2006. I resisted the whole smartphone/iPhone rush up until this year because I was on T-Mobile, I loved their service, and I didn't want to pay assloads of money. My wife got on the employee referral plan for Sprint (the last day you could sign up for it), and she loves it. So finally this year I stayed with T-Mobile, and got an Android G1 for $50 from a neighbor who said it was "too much phone" for him. Popped my SIM in and told T-Mobile I had changed phones. They had offered me an unlimited voice + "unlimited" data (5GB before speed throttling) + 400 texts for $80 per month. I didn't have to extend my contract and it has since expired, so I'm free to switch or continue. So now I pay $10 more a month with T-Mobile for unlimited data and voice, and I get all the versatility and features that Android has. It does everything I want it to do. I really don't care how much a year I'm spending, because it's within my monthly budget and I'm getting far more in terms of features than I used to. Plus, I didn't have to extend my contract and I'll be able to use 3G speeds when T-Mobile rolls it out in my area (no current iPhone will ever do 3G on T-Mobile). So now that I've bored the absolute fuck out of you with my long-winded summary, let me say this - I love Google and the G1 because it does what I want it to do, when I want it done, with a very low minimum of hassle and cost in my opinion. This is obviously not your sentiment. But I would ask that before you just badmouth us Android fanboys again, you consider that SOME of us chose Android not because it's anti-iPhone, but because it meets our needs. Now get off my lawn ;-)

Re:the iSheep....

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad your iPhone 3G won't do 3G on T-Mobile's frequencies.

Re:the iSheep....

[dcam]

Paragraphs. Use them to aid comprehension.

Re:the iSheep....

[Xaedalus]

absolutely brilliant :-D

Let me be the first to say

[imgod2u]

Fuck AT&T. I don't tether currently. I didn't cringe when I got charged $26 per line for "activation". I didn't cringe at signing a 2-year contract to get a phone for $300. I didn't even cringe at an "unlimited" data plan that limits downloads to 10MB files (which, coincidentally, is smaller than most of the apps on the "approved" app store).

Why is Apple sticking with these people. The overall user experience of an "approved" iPhone is significantly worse because of AT&T's behavior as greedy little fucktards.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Cheerio Boy]

Fuck AT&T. I don't tether currently. I didn't cringe when I got charged $26 per line for "activation". I didn't cringe at signing a 2-year contract to get a phone for $300. I didn't even cringe at an "unlimited" data plan that limits downloads to 10MB files (which, coincidentally, is smaller than most of the apps on the "approved" app store).

Why is Apple sticking with these people. The overall user experience of an "approved" iPhone is significantly worse because of AT&T's behavior as greedy little fucktards.

If you read the article you'll see that it's not just AT&T that Apple did it for. It's across all providers even if they have a legally unlocked phone and approved tethering in their contracts. I can only hope Apple gets a ton of bad press and negative feedback on this one and puts tethering back.

Especially since they are now effectively committing fraud: http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3gs/tethering.html

Re:Let me be the first to say

[vadim_t]

Fuck AT&T. I don't tether currently. I didn't cringe when I got charged $26 per line for "activation". I didn't cringe at signing a 2-year contract to get a phone for $300. I didn't even cringe
at an "unlimited" data plan that limits downloads to 10MB files (which, coincidentally, is smaller than most of the apps on the "approved" app store).

And that's precisely why you got such a crappy deal, which just got even worse.

Complain. Threaten to quit. If not listened to, quit, and explain why you did. And don't buy stuff that locks you into one unique provider.

I bought an unlocked phone precisely so that I could switch freely between carriers if it became needed.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[IDIIAMOTS]

Well they Apple has this handy disclaimer on the page you linked - "Tethering is not currently offered in the U.S. and some other countries. See your carrier for availability". No fraud here as value of "some" now approaches "all".

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, this is all AT&T fault. Apple of course has nothing at all to do with this.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[bgillespie]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that there's an ad for the iPhone 3.1 software update at the bottom of parent's linked page?

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.iphonewzealand.co.nz/2009/telecom/warning-for-xt-users-iphone-os-3-1-disables-tethering/ explains why your tethering stops working

Re:Let me be the first to say

[FlyingBishop]

Not just fraud but breach of contract. The users accepted the iPhone EULA with the understanding that tethering would work. I smell a class-action suit.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[VEGETA_GT]

um don't just blame AT&T shoot apple to. Apple is the ONLY cell maker who can walk in and say this is how you will deal with our product or you don't get it. Apple has much more control over how AT&T deals with the iphone then most think. Everything AT&T dose is effectively approved by apple so hey apple could turn around and say thats dumb change it but they don't. I am no AT&T lover but lets face it its not all there fault Apple has a LOT to do with it

Re:Let me be the first to say

[LordAndrewSama]

Maybe you should have cringed, acted outraged, then not bought the product. they're just testing how much they can walk all over your pathetic ass. give em an inch and they take a foot, kind of thing. so stop taking it quietly and take your money elsewhere.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

How on earth was this modded +5 Insightful?

Sorry, normally I post under my nick, but this is a new computer, in an unfamiliar space, so until I can ensure the safety of the machine, AC posting it is for me :(

At any rate, the "unlimited" data plans you are quoting take into account the TRANSER (meaning, synchronous upstream to downstream) amount, not the download amount, and is usually time limited. As a point of curiosity... link a data plan with a 10MB transfer limit, labeled as unlimited.

Further, I somehow think that the description of AT&T as "greedy little fucktards" when it was Apple that disabled tethering across ALL platforms as somehow relevant to the point... is, well, rather shortsighted and troll-ish.

Someone, please... mod parent down apprpriately. Thank you, and good night.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[mea37]

Does the EULA actually say that tethering will be allowed? An "understanding" outside the contract is not a contract term.

It may be that your contract with your service provider says something about tethering. Apple is most likely not a party to that contract, so they can't really breach it. I suppose depending on the provider's relationship with Apple a court might find that your provider is responsible for ensuring that Apple provides a compatible product for the features you've contracted to use, but I'm not holding my breath. (If I sign on for picture/video/data service, my dog eats my phone, and I buy a cheap replacement that doesn't support those features, is my provider somehow liable? If not, how is this situation different from your provider's perspective?)

It seems to me that the oldest lesson in the book (buyer beware) applies to complex multi-party arrangements even more than to simple exchanges.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Stele]

Not only that, their sound quality SUCKS. At least here in Madison, whenever I call someone with an iPhone, it sounds like its switching to some archaic network and then the other person sounds muffled, like they are talking on a speaker phone.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[TRRosen]

If you read the article you'll see that it's not just AT&T that Apple did it for. It's across all providers even if they have a legally unlocked phone and approved tethering in their contracts.

No that would be all non-apple providers. Tethering still works fine on apple providers except for AT&T. Of course the unlocked phones are a mistake expect a a 3.1.2 update to re-enable tethering there (to not do so would put Apple in hot water where unlocked phones are required by law)

Re:Let me be the first to say

[aetherworld]

If you read the article you'll see that it's not just AT&T that Apple did it for. It's across all providers even if they have a legally unlocked phone and approved tethering in their contracts.

As I said in another comment, my provider's contract in my country allows tethering and tethering still works, even after the 3.1 update. I still don't think this is a necessary move on Apple's side. You can tether with almost any phone that has bluetooth.

Also, I'm paying EUR 2 (US $ 3) a month for tethering with my current contract, which I wouldn't have to, if I had a different phone.

So yes, this sucks.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt it, if you look at this page; http://www.apple.com/iphone/softwareupdate/ it quite clearly states that this option is disabled in the USA and other countries.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[itsdapead]

Especially since they are now effectively committing fraud: http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3gs/tethering.html [apple.com]

Where they say:

Tethering is not currently offered in the U.S. and some other countries. See your carrier for availability.

...and if you read TFA, and get as far as the post from Digital Kurtz, you'll see that all that is required is an updated profile file from the carrier, and the people having problems are with carriers who don't actively support the iPhone.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[erroneus]

I read it. It isn't "just for AT&T" perhaps... or is it? I saw where providers allow tethering and still can't have it on their iPhones. I think it seems far more likely that AT&T didn't want there to be a possibility of someone getting a "foreign" update to keep tethering enabled. I know I have used phone software loads from other countries in order to bypass any limitations imposed by the local carrier. So disabled in the U.S. but available in England or Italy? No problem, just download their software and install it to my phone and change the locale. Problem solved. Well, not in this case.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[interval1066]

No fraud per se, but I love this; "Tethering is not currently offered in the U.S. and some other countries...", in the country that invented most of the means of producing the digital revolution cell phone tethering is not available. It sort of couches it as some kind of shortcoming of the prevailing technology. No, not at all. Tethering is accomplished by other carriers and other phones with no additional effort. Makes me more than comfortable with my decision to not go iPhone more than ever.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[RingDev]

<span style="font-size:tiny; color:ReallyLightGray;"> I see what you mean! </span>

-Rick

Re:Let me be the first to say

[pete6677]

This is what's wrong with refusing to walk away from a deal. You have no negotiating leverage. When the other party knows you're committed to buying no matter what, they have no reason to accommodate any request of yours.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually if you read the fine print it clearly states that tethering is not supported in the US.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Like with everything else concerning mobile carriers, the fine print is where they get you.

"Now you can share the fast 3G connection on your iPhone with your Mac or PC and connect to the Internet from just about anywhere â" no Wi-Fi required.

Tethering is not currently offered in the U.S. and some other countries. See your carrier for availability."

Re:Let me be the first to say

[dissy]

Not just fraud but breach of contract. The users accepted the iPhone EULA with the understanding that tethering would work. I smell a class-action suit.

Odd, my iPhone & AT&T contract specifically states tethering is NOT allowed.

Apple also said that tethering is a new feature available in OS 3.0 (Which it is, as in the software to do so is in the firmware), however they also say that as far as the cell carrier goes, AT&T does not offer tethering at all in the US.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Guspaz]

No, it's not all providers. Tethering still works fine in 3.1 on providers that support it, such as Fido/Rogers in Canada.

For example, my iPhone from Fido running 3.1 still has tethering support, just like it always has.

Tethering has only been disabled in 3.1 for providers that don't officially support the iPhone. That sucks, certainly, but let's not engage in hyperbole. If you buy a phone not supported by your carrier, you run the risk of this sort of thing. That's true with any phone, not just the iPhone.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Now you can share the fast 3G connection on your iPhone with your Mac or PC and connect to the Internet from just about anywhere â" no Wi-Fi required.

SMALLPRINT:
Tethering is not currently offered in the U.S. and some other countries. See your carrier for availability./quote

Re:Let me be the first to say

[FlyingBishop]

No, I guess reading the EULA they expressly give no warranty... but if the EULA gives them this right, it must also give them the right to brick the phone. It's my understanding that those "no warranty" sections are bogus, especially when it comes to companies deliberately disabling features that were bought as a part of the original contract. I mean, the contract is a license to use the software, and the stated features are an important part of that contract, whether or not Apple wants to admit it.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't tether currently. I didn't cringe when ... I didn't cringe at ... I didn't even cringe at ... Why is Apple sticking with these people

Their users put up with it.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[renger]

Apple isn't any different than AT&T. They just want to make money. Customer satisfaction is only an issue as it impacts macroscopic sales/customer-attrition. Apple figures it can sell more units by partnering with a big provider. The AT&T thinks it can clobber the competition by offering the cutesy Apple mobile terminal. NEITHER gives a rat's ass about the customer. It's only about the money. Even after the big wall street melt down and the huge down-turn in the world economy, business leaders still operate by the same rules: money in their personal pockets. Nothing else matters. Don't expect much relief from regulators; they're running a competition to see how far they can take Laissez Faire. Can they get paid by the tax payer for actually buggering the tax payer. Sure they can.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

AT&T isn't bad as long as you don't get a locked smartphone.

I have an factory unlocked HTC Touch Diamond (US market phone with AT&T 3G support) with the "dumb" phone unlimited data plan, 200 SMS (which shouldn't be charged anyway... but that's another story), and the lowest minute plan (450 minutes): no more than $68 a month. I also use my phone to tether to my notebook when I'm at a coffee house with no free wi-fi.

Granted, I paid 400 bucks for the phone...

Re:Let me be the first to say

[mea37]

Okay, but I'm not asking about warantee clauses.

I'm asking where in any contract to which Apple was a party did Apple agree to provide for tethering?

You talk about a feature being bought in "the original contract" - what original contract, between whom and whom?

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you buy a phone not supported by your carrier..." What the heck? There is a reason why we have standards such as GSM and WCDMA. It SHOULD not matter what kind of a phone you have.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[initialE]

a phone not supported by your carrier

Listen to yourself. Your carrier is not supposed to support a phone, it is supposed to support a _standard_, whether it is CDMA, iMode or GSM like the rest of the world uses, This makes it possible to bring your phone overseas with you too, you know, and do things like buy a phone without the uncertainty of wondering if it will work where you live. The thing is, you've been in slavery so long that your level of expectation is so much lower than that of everyone else. Yes, you, American.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[drsparkly]

iPhone 3GS in Australia on the 3 network, on a mobile broadband plan, tethering still works on 3.1. I don't know if 3 officially support the iPhone but I don't believe they offer it on any of their plans.

On an aside, I'm no smartphone expert but this iPhone beats the crap out of my Nokia N95. I could get something with more geek cred but I don't have the time any more to customise every single thing on all my tech devices. Happy to have something that works well and does everything I want it to do without much fuss.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[mjwx]

Why is Apple sticking with these people. The overall user experience of an "approved" iPhone is significantly worse because of AT&T's behavior as greedy little fucktards.

Your critical assumption is that Apple cares about you, the user. Apple would rather retain control because they know fanboys will buy their products no matter what abuses they have to endure, with years lingering at the bottom of the food chain I don't think Apple have that much concern over their market share certainly not as much as Microsoft.

Why are we referring to iphone users as users, its a clever marketing ploy and I'm seeing it just about everywhere these days. A poster outside an Optus shop today said "more iphone users choose the optus network"*. I am an owner of a HTC dream, why aren't iphone users referred to as owners?

* I deliberately selected any other network but optus for this reason, the iphone and Dream operate on the same 2100MHz frequency and Optus is not upgrading it's 2100MHz network.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[dangitman]

Why is Apple sticking with these people.

Most likely because Apple has a contract with AT&T to stay with them for a certain number of years. Also, there aren't many options when it comes to GSM carriers in the US.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[iCEBaLM]

If you bothered to read the GP you'd know that he's Canadian.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[initialE]

Iran, Iraq, what's the difference?

Anyway, sucks to live in that part of the world I guess. Thanks for the correction.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[jfanning]

Tethering has only been disabled in 3.1 for providers that don't officially support the iPhone. That sucks, certainly, but let's not engage in hyperbole. If you buy a phone not supported by your carrier, you run the risk of this sort of thing. That's true with any phone, not just the iPhone.

That is completely not true. If I buy an unlocked phone I have the expectation that every feature supported by the phone will work unless the operator doesn't specifically have that feature (like an MMS server).

Tethering is totally different in that regard. The network can't tell if the bits come from the phone or a device using the phone as a modem. So it is completely artificial to limit tethering and Apple had no right to disable it for all non-partner networks. Whether I can use tethering is between me and the mobile operator. Apple has nothing to do with it and this.

This sort of action is so completely in line with Apple current practices though and I hope their asses get nailed to the wall because of it. It might teach them a lesson.

Re:Let me be the first to say

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you buy a phone not supported by your carrier, you run the risk of this sort of thing. That's true with any phone, not just the iPhone."

No, you don't. GSM is GSM; all GSM features should work on all GSM networks. (Slashddotters don't say, 'if you use a web browser not supported by the website, you run the risk of this sort of thing. No. We say, 'web browsers and websites should be standards compliant.' The same is true for cellphones.)

Also, what about here where we have a carrier (Telecom NZ) that DOES support the iPhone but does not sell it? (They don't have a contract to sell them, but you can buy fully unlocked iPhones direct from Apple New Zealand.)

It sounds like teathering is disabled - after all, iPhones don't 'know' about Telecom NZ. But Telecom NZ didn't disable it - they just treat iPhones as just another phone. (We have per-megabyte data pricing anyway so it's not a biggie.)

Please boycott Apple!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why I refuse to buy any Apple related products.

Re:Please boycott Apple!

[King_TJ]

Your comment was rated +5 Insightful?? Really? It's that *insightful* that you want people to boycott Apple, and you refuse to buy any Apple products because of issues like this lock on tethering??

I'm sorry, but I have to call this one out as a bunch of Apple haters just modding things up to make themselves feel good.

1. I've purchased 2 iPhones so far (original model with 8GB memory, and currently using a 16GB 3G model), and might even consider getting a 3GS in the future. My boss and the V.P. of our company have also purchased iPhone 3G's and are quite pleased with them. My g/f, like me, owned an original iPhone and now uses a 3G. 2 of my best friends own iPhone 3Gs as well. None of us are angered enough with our purchases to demand people boycott Apple. Frankly, I'm not sure why anyone would be? The only thing that upsets most iPhone owners I know is AT&T's relatively poor level of service. You're FAR more likely to get a dropped call on their network, or slow data transfer on their network, than on most others. But that's true of ANY phone you use on the AT&T network, and hardly something Apple can directly address/correct.

2. Tethering on the AT&T network (legally) is a fairly expensive extra-cost option, on any phone they allow it on. I don't really understand why it's worth the money for 99% of the people out there. The people I saw who were all hot to jailbreak their iPhone, so they could tether on it with AT&T were NOT willing/interested in paying a tethering fee to add it to their cellular plan. They were all hoping to fly under AT&T's radar and not get caught. I don't really expect any wireless carrier or manufacturer to cater to that crowd. Honestly, AT&T has made concessions already to appease iPhone owners, including allowing unlimited free use of all wi-fi hotspots they own. (That feature is one I often take advantage of.)

3. The fact is, Apple and AT&T do have a pretty tight agreement in place with the iPhone, which was giving Apple a cut of AT&T's monthly cellular charges on iPhones. Apple was also able to get AT&T to do some things for them to make the iPhone user experience better than what you'd otherwise get (primarily Visual Voicemail functionality, which required some changes to AT&T's network to accommodate it). Given all of this, it's a no-brainer to see why Apple would bend over backwards to please AT&T when they expressed a desire to limit data usage on their over-burdened network. I knew most of this going into my first iPhone purchase though, and definitely knew all about it by my 2nd. purchase. Ultimately, the ROOT cause of all of these problems keeps coming down to AT&T having an inferior network that can't really handle the loads being placed on it by the popularity of the iPhones out there. (I think Apple's last press conference said around 30 million iPhones have been sold to date?)

So in summary, I have a strong dislike for AT&T ... but not so sure you wouldn't have seen similar restrictions popping up if Apple did an exclusive contract for iPhones with any of the other carriers, either. With an exclusive deal on a smartphone that encourages this much usage, the total load can't be distributed over all the major carriers like it normally would be.....

Re:Please boycott Apple!

[gogowater]

The reason why Apple can get away with such behavior is because WE THE PEOPLE tolerate it. :( Why can't Apple be a good Apple.

Re:Please boycott Apple!

[PeanutButterBreath]

So in summary, you are stoked on your iPhone despite the fact that Apple cashes in on your enthusiasm for their product by forcing you to subscribe to a money grubbing carrier with an inferior network that dictates reduced functionality (or at least locks out perfectly legitimate, achievable functionality). And despite heaping so much scorn on AT&T, you are not convinced that the situation would be any different on any other carrier because of Apple's desire to work with an exclusive carrier (which allows them to get kick-backs).

But you are incredulous that someone else might not want to be an Apple customer?

Re:Please boycott Apple!

[initialE]

Going off on a tangent, but isn't AT&T overburdened because they took the public money purposed for upgrading, and absconded with it? I'm surprised people are able to put up with that.

Re:Please boycott Apple!

[King_TJ]

No, I'm not at all "incredulous that someone else might not want to be an Apple customer". I'm simply saying it makes little to no sense to scream "Boycott!" over a product that had sales in the 30 million units range, and very high overall customer satisfaction rates.

Would I be even happier with my iPhone if I could choose my own carrier and it wasn't locked to AT&T? Of course! But like all things, you weigh the pros and cons -- and the iPhone hardware itself is great. AT&T's level of service is not, but despite all the issues, it's still more than usable. (If it degraded to the point where I couldn't get calls out or missed calls regularly, that would be unacceptable, and the stuff of boycotts.)

I realize, too, that phone carriers are basically all greedy and self-serving. Apple, supposedly, wanted to run their OWN carrier to put their phones on, but discovered that wasn't legal (at least in the USA) because there's some regulation barring phone makers from also offering cellular service. Their first move was to partner up with Verizon, except THEY were so greedy, they wouldn't even make any of the changes Apple requested (like ability to activate the phone via iTunes, or Visual Voicemail functionality).

AT&T was probably a choice Apple wound up having to make, rather than one they WANTED to make, because AT&T needed Apple more than the other carriers felt they needed Apple. Among other things, the iPhone would have never taken off if a carrier couldn't be found who was willing to sell a reasonably priced unlimited data plan for it. AT&T does discount that on iPhone plans, vs. what they charge for any other data capable phone....

That seems unfortunate....

[dmacleod808]

The inability to Downgrade to 3.0, not the tethering thing. It seems they do have this right,as tethering has never been supported, (EVEN ON OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED UNLOCKED PHONES). If you are tethering, you should know not to be an early adopter of any firmware update anyway.

Re:That seems unfortunate....

[Norsefire]

To me it looks like they tout it as a feature. Although, they do have a small disclaimer;

Tethering is not currently offered in the U.S. and some other countries. See your carrier for availability.

So if I lived in one of the "some other countries" with a vendor who sold factory unlocked iPhones and supported tethering, like Vodafone New Zealand, I would be filing against Vodafone (not Apple) for false advertising.

Apple won't listen to its customers, but it will listen when its foreign partners start suing them in retaliation.

Re:That seems unfortunate....

[Lulfas]

It was supported and an ADVERTISED feature. http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3gs/tethering.html

Re:That seems unfortunate....

[sg_oneill]

In in australia, and tethering actually activated after my upgrade today. Which is good, since I was paying for it, but it never activated under 3.0.

I guess maybe the phones are now checking rather than guessing or something.

Re:That seems unfortunate....

[Anonymous Coward]

[h2]Now you can share the fast 3G connection on your iPhone with your Mac or PC and connect to the Internet from just about anywhere â" no Wi-Fi required.[/h2]

Tethering is not currently offered in the U.S. and some other countries. See your carrier for availability.

Re:That seems unfortunate....

[TRRosen]

And it still is ...your point being???

Purchased Feature

[DontLickJesus]

Was this feature was purchased with the phone? I see a class action looming if so. Manufacturers do not hold the right to downgrade product after purchase.

Re:Purchased Feature

[sinrakin]

I also wonder about the legality. Unless the upgrade explicitly warns you that a feature is being removed, it seems that they're taking back some of what you bought. "Upgrades" are generally to fix things that the manufacturer wasn't able to get into the initial release that should have been there, or to fix dangerous bugs. If you bring your car in for a recall and they fix a problem but also remove the radio, you would certainly have grounds to complain and presumably recover damages.

Re:Purchased Feature

[TRRosen]

the number of people that have purchased an unlocked phone make it a pretty small class. and that was probably an oversight that will be corrected in 3.1.2

Re:Purchased Feature

[davecb]

As I understand it, you commence a class-action suit, name Apple and your provider and have your solicitor invite the provider to join their suit against Apple with yours (;-))

--dave

Re:Purchased Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Might want to talk to Chrysler-Jeep about that. They sold me a 160HP/300ft-lb Diesel engine and then detuned it to only 140HP/260FT-LB because the Torque Converter kept shredding apart, then modified the 2006 to be 140/260 to get away with it. But I have a 2005, that has been flashed and downgraded. Where is my class action suit? No where. There are only 5000 of us.

In short: sure they can, it's in the fine print "terms to change without notice at any time."

Re:Purchased Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Why a class action ? Do you want a $25 discount on your next Apple purchase somewhere in 2015 ?

I would want either the functionality restored or a complete refund. Isn't this something for small claims court ?
Not sure about the US, but in Europe they will not get away with this.

Anyway, this is were to start: https://selfsolve.apple.com/GetWarranty.do
Just report it as a defect.

Re:Purchased Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably not in most cases. They did, after all, just enable this and MMS a short time ago.

Re:Purchased Feature

[Renraku]

They have the right to do whatever the fuck they please with your hardware if you sign an agreement that lets them. The only caveat is that it can hopefully be challenged and shot down in court. My phone or PS3 shouldn't be in danger of having functionality removed when an upgrade model is soon to appear...

Re:Purchased Feature

[rdnetto]

Looks like it: http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3gs/tethering.html

Cant say that I am suprised...

[Zantac69]

For all of the functionality and cool stuff that the iPhone does - we all know there is more that is CAN do. But...as is with Apple and Microsoft - they will hamstring and do what they "think is best" for you all in the name of customer "support."

I was inches away from gettin an iPhone 2 months ago. Now...I am not so sure now. My SonyEricsson W810i still have some legs in him.

Wait for 3.2

[L4t3r4lu5]

In 3.2, they're including a printable coupon for your very own Steve Jobs replica wang, coupled with a couple of apples as the veg.

For the authentic Apple experience.

Re:Wait for 3.2

[Anonymous Coward]

Hihi, Insightful, Hihi...

FCC may be interested

[headhot]

So the FCC has started looking into unfair business practices of cell providers. This could be a smoking gun. A 100% legal unbundled phone that will only support tethering on a single providers network, that previously did support tethering.

Re:FCC may be interested

[truthsearch]

Tethering was never supported in the US. So the FCC would have no interest in this particular case.

Re:FCC may be interested

[sydney094]

It could if you bought a 100% legit unlocked phone overseas, brought it to the US, signed up for service with tethering and then lost it when Apple pulled it away. Or, if you managed to buy your phone outright from AT&T/Apple w/o contract, and lost tethering.

Then again, the number of people who did that are probably too small to be of much interest to the FCC.

Re:FCC may be interested

[Kneo24]

Are you kidding? Even if you're a minority, all you need to do is send a thousand letters or so per person to make the numbers look huge. It works for the ninnies who complain about side boobs on TV all the time.

Re:FCC may be interested

[Roogna]

Actually, surprisingly in my experience the FCC is one of the few government bodies that actually DOES care what the consumer thinks and wants. But there's a catch, they don't go looking for those opinions, they wait for the opinions to come to them. Which is why they do little for the tech crowd, we're more likely to complain here on /. than to actually write the FCC over an issue. Unlike when someone flashes a nipple on TV and every over sensitive group in the US promptly WRITES to complain.

But the FCC takes a surprisingly harsh stance towards any companies that cause enough annoyance to get people writing them. After all, they'd rather NOT have to do any useful work with their time, and written letters cause them to. ;)

So if you have an opinion that even vaguely falls within the FCC's realm. Then write it to them and write it to them often.

Re:FCC may be interested

[TRRosen]

Yes ZERO is a small number silly. the point was you can't but a tethering plan in the US so no US users have been affected.

Re:FCC may be interested

[ShakaUVM]

>>So the FCC has started looking into unfair business practices of cell providers.

All 20 of the people that care about this issue will be overshadowed by the dollars donated to the government by the telcos.

They already engage in oligopolic anti-competitive behavior resulting in phone plans in America costing around 5x as much as in other countries, and neither the FCC nor other federal agencies have shown much backbone into prosecuting them for price fixing.

Good old Apple..

[NeuralAbyss]

Fuck AT&T and Apple with a rusty razorblade.

There's no good reason to disable tethering on foreign networks, apart from Apple being greedy cunts.

I'm quite glad I have a non-Apple UMTS device, but I do feel sorry for all the poor bastards that bought into the hype. And the limitations imposed after-the-fact.

Re:Good old Apple..

[Anonymous Coward]

as happy blackberry user who often got bashed by iphones-yuppies i'm happy. Revenge can be sweet...

Re:Good old Apple..

[TRRosen]

There's no good reason to disable tethering on foreign networks

Which is why they didn't ...RTFA

Re:Good old Apple..

[NeuralAbyss]

Looking at my housemate's iPhone (newly 3.1'ed), that's precisely what they've done.

Carrier that doesn't give a shit either way about tethering, and the feature has been disabled.

Re:Good old Apple..

[TRRosen]

they disabled nothing they simply secured the carrier config file that enables tethering. If you used a hacked one tethering is gone (for now) if your on a Apple partner carrier this shouldn't happen. if you have an non apple carrier with unlocked iPhone you'll have to wait for your carrier to contact Apple and find out how to support the iPhone. (ie properly sign the config file)

Re:Good old Apple..

[NeuralAbyss]

Exactly - they've locked people out of using their phone for data.

Given that there's only one network kicking and screaming about tethering (AT&T) - why give everyone else hell for it?

Re:Good old Apple..

[TRRosen]

its called security... and its a good thing!

And because the other million people that paid for that bandwidth would prefer it if others didn't hog it all. iPhone users actually can use the internet...phone companies are sheltered idiots that never saw the data revolution coming and are unprepared. Simply put no network can handle 10 million iPhone users tethering. If Apple had went with Verzion everyone would be bitching about them.

Re:Good old Apple..

[NeuralAbyss]

That's why telcos should administer their networks properly - they have complete control over the services are provided to end-users, and can QoS the devices if they really are causing that degree of problem.

Or, believe it or not, invest in their infrastructure (like most other places have..)

Re:Good old Apple..

[jole]

This is not the question. I have bought tethering plan from my carrier. It works fine with any mobile phone in the world - except iPhone with version 3.1 firmware. It should not be my carriers problem to resolve this problem if Apple decides to default to "tethering disabled" for any carriers they have never heard of.

Re:Good old Apple..

[TRRosen]

outside of japan no one has the bandwidth for real internet access on phones. This is why most of Apples partners have been struggling with there success.

Re:Good old Apple..

[TRRosen]

explain to me how you secure a system in which Guest access is enabled as administrator. You can't have open access as the default or security is pointless.

Re:Good old Apple..

[NeuralAbyss]

Works perfectly in Australia. I can pull, consistently, 2.5-3mbit at my desk, and about 2mbit on a train (travelling 60-80km/h).

This is why

[WindBourne]

Google's android will win out. MS locks you into crap expensive software, while Mac locks you into crappy expensive networks.

Re:This is why

[L4t3r4lu5]

The only crap, expensive software I have on my Diamond 2 is... Erm... Oh, wait, I downloaded a cooked community ROM with all of the rubbish removed and installed the apps I use. The WinMobile community is HUGE, with a large amount of free software for the platform.

XDA Developers is somewhere you want to look before considering purchasing any smartphone, especially one you want to toy around with.

Re:This is why

[headhot]

yea except no out of the box tethering on that phone either.

Re:This is why

[Anonymous Coward]

There's not even proper bluetooth support for android or even tethering, I know because i have one and it sucks.

Re:This is why

[Anonymous Coward]

Not just Android. Palm, Nokia, etc all offer much more open systems.

Meh, it's Apple and why I will never buy anything from them. Every single piece of Apple hardware I have ever owned has broken at one point or another (including 3 iPods, an iMac, iBook, etc). That's just shoddy engineering if you ask me.

Re:This is why

[Idiomatick]

MS doesn't lock you into any software, GG. Also the amount of totally free stuff out there is pretty huge. The only problem is the amount of phone options you get screws with ap compatibility some.

Re:This is why

[Anonymous Coward]

It's trivial to install an application to do it, though. You're fully up and running in 5 minutes.

Re:This is why

[Just Some Guy]

Linux will win out. MS locks you into crap expensive software, while Mac locks you into crappy expensive hardware.

I don't believe the above (except about MS), but enough people do that if your logic was true, everyone would be using Linux by now.

Re:This is why

[16K Ram Pack]

I'm running an Android phone, and it really tickled me when the 3GS came out and I had about 95% of the new features.

I already think that the HTC Magic is a great phone. I literally can't think of an app that I need that isn't already on Android. There's source code on Google Code as well as the app store. I've got a choice of tethering apps, depending upon if I want wi-fi or USB.

Re:This is why

[TRRosen]

it may also be easy to rob a bank but that doesn't make it legal.

Re:This is why

[jimicus]

Google's android will win out. MS locks you into crap expensive software, while Mac locks you into crappy expensive networks.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!

No, seriously, that's a joke, right?

You could equally say "Linux will win out. MS locks you into crap expensive software while Mac [sic] locks you into crappy expensive hardware."

The statements about MS and Apple would be equally true, and if past experience is anything to go by equally irrelevant to market share.

Re:This is why

[yabos]

Except the majority of people don't know what tethering is and don't care enough to switch to any Android phone. I don't know if you've seen any commercials for these Android phones marketing to the general consumer but they make no mention of a Google OS running it. It says xyz phone "with Google".

Re:This is why

[FireFury03]

it may also be easy to rob a bank but that doesn't make it legal.

Since when was tethering illegal?

Re:This is why

[TRRosen]

since when was taking something you didn't pay for and aren't authorized to have legal. There is no tethering option available for android phones in US (sprint verizon AT&T). Note Apple only secured the config file carriers use to enable tethering.

Re:This is why

[FireFury03]

since when was taking something you didn't pay for and aren't authorized to have legal.

Who said anything about not paying for it? My carrier allows tethering...

There is no tethering option available for android phones in US (sprint verizon AT&T).

1. I'm not in the US.
2. I have no idea why you think what type of phone you own makes any difference to your contract - my contract with the carrier doesn't specify anything about what sort of phone I use (other than that it must be a WCDMA capable phone) and there is also nothing preventing me using my phone on whatever carrier I feel like.

Note Apple only secured the config file carriers use to enable tethering.

It appeared from the article that this affected all the iPhones, even those which are unlocked. The device vendor has no business restricting tethering on a phone for which they cannot know the terms of the contract. (Actually, I would argue that the device vendor has no business ensuring their customers don't break a third party contract, for that is up to the third party to ensure).

Disclaimer: I do not own, nor would I want to own an iPhone.

Re:This is why

[TRRosen]

2. I have no idea why you think what type of phone you own makes any difference to your contract - my contract with the carrier doesn't specify anything about what sort of phone I use

In the US they do

It appeared from the article that this affected all the iPhones, even those which are unlocked. The device vendor has no business restricting tethering on a phone for which they cannot know the terms of the contract. (Actually, I would argue that the device vendor has no business ensuring their customers don't break a third party contract, for that is up to the third party to ensure).

Apple restricts nothing the config file tells the phone what services are on the network for the phone to use. It is created by the carrier. all Apple did was to add a secure signature to the system to prevent use of false hacked config file that would allow unauthorized access to network resources. Yes it is up to the third party they can do this by banning unsecured phones from the network thus makers build secured phones.

Noooooooooo way in hell

[Anonymous Coward]

am I going to buy an iPhone!  Thanks Apple, I'm 100% sure now!  No phone is sexy enough to put up with this sort of crap!

Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[David Gerard]

After bricking unlocked iPhones, kicking applications off the iPhone store that might even slightly compete with anything Apple or AT&T might vaguely think about in the far future and filing a wave of patents on basic well-known computer science, Apple Inc. today filed a Form 8-K with the Securities and Exchange Commission declaring that it was openly adopting Evil(tm) as a corporate policy.

"Fuck it," said Steve Jobs to an audience of soul-mortgaged thralls, "we're evil. But our stuff is sooo good. You'll keep taking our abuse. You love it, you worm. Because our stuff is great. It's shiny and it's pretty and it's cool and it works. It's not like you'll go back to Windows Mobile. Ha! Ha!"

Steve Ballmer of Microsoft was incensed at the news. "Our evil is better than anyone's evil! No-one sweats the details of evil like Microsoft! Where's your antitrust trial, you polo-necked bozo? We've worked hard on our evil! Our Zune's as evil as an iPod any day! I won't let my kids use a lesser evil! We're going to do an ad about that! I'll be in it! With Jerry Seinfeld! Beat that! Asshole."

"Of course, we're still not evil," said Sergey Brin of Google. "You can trust us on this. Every bit of data about you, your life and the house you live in is strictly a secret between you and our marketing department. But, hypothetically, if we were evil, it's not like you're going to use Windows Live Search. I mean, 'Bing.' Ha! Ha! I'm sorry, that's my 'spreading good cheer' laugh. Really."

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[DeathToBill]

Damn, where are my modpoints?

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[L4t3r4lu5]

Congratulations, you win at The Internet.

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[David Gerard]

I was actually trying to win it with Alan Turing apologises for Gordon Brown. But this'll do ;-)

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[BlueBoxSW.com]

I keep looking for that killer app that got kicked out of the itunes store that would make me jailbreak my iphone.

Haven't found it yet.

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[timbck2]

Same here. I jailbroke my phone, installed some apps; then never used them.

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[drummerboybac]

Free Turn by turn GPS with voice that uses google maps did it for me

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[dwpro]

Seriously, hasn't the run gone on long enough Gerald?

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1367713&cid=29413213

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1191051&cid=27497355

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1344921&cid=29164957

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1178961&cid=27369683

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=970931&cid=25092275

and probably more, I tired of looking

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aslashdot.org+we're+evil.+But+our+stuff+is+sooo+good.&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[chaosstorm]

Backgrounder is the only reason I jailbreak.

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[j0se_p0inter0]

3G Unrestrictor alone was worth the jailbreak for me. Skype calls over 3G FTW.

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[Mhtsos]

I knew that bitten apple logo meant something the minute I saw it.. but I said "naaah, it can't be". I mean, they made Microsoft look good by comparison!

Re:Apple embraces Evil(tm)

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a troll...patent mod abuse. Reminds me of the twitter sockpuppet fiasco.

I remember...

[neowolf]

...when I actually wanted an iPhone. Glad I never wasted the money. Why would anyone want to buy something thats capabilities change almost monthly at the whim of Apple and AT&T? It still can't do things an old Moto RAZR did five years ago. The iPhone was relegated to "gadget" status at my company earlier this year (meaning they won't support it as a communication tool for managers). Now it seems to be failing in the gadget category as-well. I really don't even know who to blame anymore- AT&T is an obvious target, but Apple is responsible for a lot of this too.

Re:I remember...

[tjwolf]

I'm not an Apple fan boy (run Linux on my laptop - even installed Ubuntu on my daughter's laptop), but unless you've used an iphone, you have no idea how useful it is. I gave my wife one last year - but didn't get one for myself because I couldn't stand the idea of forking over another $30/month to AT&T - after all, my wife and I spend most of our time together, so I figured that if I ever feel the need, I could use hers. But during this year, the iphone has become so indispensible, I caved in this July and got a 3GS. You speak of how the iphone doen't have this and that technology of other phones. I had a RAZR and a SE W350 (a music phone) before the iphone. Both had a bunch of features - that I never used because I couldn't be bothered to find them in the endless menu system; they had a browser too - but I couldn't stand the tiny screen and clumsy, unintuitive navigation (I briefly considered the Nokie E71 - even ordered it on Amazon - but when I tried its browser, after having used my wife's iphone for a year, I cringed...cancelled my order and got the iphone). Anyway, the point of the iphone is not the technological features - the point is how easily accessible the features it does have become to use. For instance, show me *any* cell phone that lets me click ONCE to bring up an app that lets me search for anyone in the white pages, type the search criteria (without using some gawd-awful numeric pad), click ONCE on the list entry you want, and click ONCE more to add the name, phone number, street address to your phone's contact list. Show me a phone that then lets you, with a single click, bring that same contact up on a map and with a second click get directions from the current location. The iphone is not a gadget - it's a device that integrates a few core functions better than any other phone (in terms of efficiency of operation) and is made more useful with every application that's added to their app store. Having extolled the iphone's virtues, I must say that I'm really disappointed in the 3.1 update. I just downloaded it last week and, ever since, I've been having more trouble surfing over 3G. Don't know where the trouble lies - seems it might be Safari as I can still effortlessly browse the app store when I'm timing out in Safari. Anyway, the most frustrating part is that there seems to be no easy way to complain to Apple when one of its updates causes these problems. Don't wanna run to some friggin "genius" bar (where, in the past, I've been simply told to "reset the phone" :-(

Re:I remember...

[Anonymous Coward]

I decided recently that it wasn't worth it either, so I sold my iPhone (at a profit) and went back to my RAZR. I'm also looking at moving back to my Blackberry 7100g without a data plan, because it can do a few things better than my RAZR (speakerphone, contacts and calendars). I'm finding that I don't miss my iPhone (and I owned four different ones since the initial launch in 2007) as much as I thought I would.

Hearing of the shenanigans going on, even though it involves features that I never used or needed, I'm missing my iPhone a little less for it.

Re:I remember...

[immcintosh]

I used one until mine broke for no reason recently (another story), and I can say that in terms of being an actual [b]tool[/b] (what most people think of when they hear "useful") I would rate it somewhere behind every single other modern smartphone I've used (G3 and Pre). Having recently switched over to a Pre, there's absolutely no way I'd go back to a phone that can't multitask.

So if you want to talk about efficient operation, talk about the fact that you can't work on all those apps at the same time, and swap between them at will. Reading an email and want to check your calendar and then look at a map to see if you can make an invitation, then reply to the email, go back to the map, copy the address, and stick it into your calendar which is still open to the date in question? Good luck doing that pleasantly on an iPhone. I truly had no appreciation how HORRIBLE the iPhone is at that sort of thing until I got a Pre. As an actual tool for getting things done, I'd say the iPhone is anything but efficient for all but the simplest of tasks. The magic of Apple is that they're actually able to make us think otherwise...

Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[Trifthen]

... but of entertainment for the rest of us. Seriously, this is hilarious. It's like being back in high school again and watching the heartrending saga of Jill and her cavalcade of BFFs finally have a tragic argument destined to elicit tears at every juncture. For the participants, tears of frustration and despair, and for the viewing public, tears of laughter.

I mean, really.

Apple: "Our new phone is awesome!"
Fans: "Yes, it is! Wait... where's cut and paste, and media messaging?"
AT&T: LOLwhat?

Then...

Apple: "We now have cut and paste... kinda! And the phone is faster!"
Fans: "Yay! Wait... I want a refund on the difference!"
AT&T: "I'm sitting this one out!"

And now...

Apple: "We now have tethering, and media messaging!"
AT&T: "No we don't! In fact, you're killing our network by using the extra capacity you paid for!"
Fans: "I'll cut you!"

I just... don't even know what to say. Kudos, to all participants. You've provided more drama than money could buy, and for that, I thank you!

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[dynamo]

Laughing at both parent posts, but they're both right.

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[slack_justyb]

Indeed, This just in: Cell phone providers are screwing you and Apple is evil. Story at 6:00.

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[Sandbags]

You blame AT&T as if they're the only provider of the iPhone worldwide, and as if they're the only ISP that has enforced provisions on Apple.

I still don't understand why MMS is even a point. Every single phone on the market can send and receive e-mail including media files for free... Tethering is a simple hack to implement, and even when they'll support it natively it will be $35 a month cheaper than anyone else's tethering option.

Apple has forced SIGNIFICANT changes top the phone networks. They're breaking their cost models, forcing architectural changes, and more.

Could they have released a device with 100% of what people want from day 1? No. The proviuders (originally Cingular) would not have touched it. Heck, Verizon turned it down as it was!. Remeber, those assholes have pertnerships with RIM, Microsoft, Palm, Nokia, and others. If they allowed Apple to come up with something that bypassed all that secondary revenue, and truly competed on uneven ground with features to blow the competition away, AT&T (and the others) would have had a real hard time getting anyone else to sell them devices for the non-iPhone crowd.

Also, slowly releasing features forces AT&T to stay in line. They approved the initial device, and now that they have 40 mjillion subscribers, when Apple updates the phone OS to support new stuff, it practically forces AT&T to comply, especailyl when other devices support the features on that network already. Any failure on AT&T's part, and Apple blows their contract away, and thos 40 million people might get a free pass from the FCC to dump their contracts and move to a friendlier subscriber. (or by FCC decree, get some free serfices, discounts, or potentially even refunds).

Apple has done more for the cell phone industry in this country than any other provider of a device. Why? there's no revenue sharing in their contract outside of the device sale itself. They could give two shits about AT&T's ability to nickle and dime us, nor any other phone company, and so they push the limits of what the network can do.

That AT&T contract WILL expire soon. Do NOT expect AT&T to get an exclusive extension. Then, instyantly, AT&T will drop prices, offer competing features, and be forced to finally compete (if the FCC and supreme court don;t make that happen sooner).

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[Rich0]

I still don't understand why MMS is even a point. Every single phone on the market can send and receive e-mail including media files for free...

Uh - most phones do not receive email for free. In fact, most phones barely support receiving email at all (usually only text - via SMS). MMS is by far the most standardized way to send a photo to somebody on a cell phone. Granted, MMS is also not free to most people.

Unless you're limiting "every single phone on the market" to a handful of smartphones with data plans.

Most people are carrying around some tiny little phone that came free with their plan and does little more than SMS/MMS with a less-than 2MP camera.

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[Sandbags]

My wife's Verizon phone gets e-mail just fine, without paying for the data plan, and apparently every verizon phone with a color screen thats web enabled can do the same. My previos Sprint phone (back in 2002) had free e-mail as well, and my Cingular camera phone also got e-mail.

My parents have el-cheapo phones on a local carier network that don't even have cameras, I can can e-mail them photos...

Sure, not EVERY device can do it, and not on every plan, but the vast majority of phones on the market can send/receive e-mail. not all may be able to view the pic, but honestly, how often is it CRUCIAL someone see a pic I just took, or honestly, is simply letting them know there's one in their e-mail to view later good enough...

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[natehoy]

But how is that email sent to the phone? To (phonenumber)(at)text.verizon.net or whatever it is now? If so, then it's MMS on the receiving end, and is coming out of her SMS/MMS plan.

I've had both Verizon and ATT/Cingular (both companies over the years), and all the email has been SMS/MMS. For a while, my prepaid AT&T phone offered free incoming SMS/MMS, and I could give out an email address for people to email to it, but it got translated to SMS/MMS on its way in. But I couldn't send email on the phone, I could only send SMS (and maybe MMS, but the phone didn't have a camera so what would be the point?)

Now, admittedly, this does mean that iPhones can functionally send SMS and MMS to most other phones by using the carrier's email bridge, and there's even a pretty big advantage to doing so since email doesn't count against your SMS/MMS usage, it uses the data plan. It just makes the exchange a little clumsier, since you can't "reply" to a conversation when you are using email and the other end is using SMS/MMS.

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[Trifthen]

Did you reply to the wrong post, sir? I believe my statements were +5 funny, and therefore immune to serious discussion.

But I do find it hilarious that I've been able to send a voice, picture, video, or all three, attached to a text message through Verizon, since at least 2005. Can the iPhone not do that? If so, what's this whole MMS tirade about, anyway?

See, I'm just echoing the complaints I've heard. I have no emotional investment in any of this. I'm being serious, here. Just watching the uproar, no matter the current subject matter, is fantastic.

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[Sandbags]

nope, shown up in an app on the phne called "email" on her phone. On my parent's devices it shows up under "messages" in a subfolder for e-mail. No MMS message fees (or data charges) hit either of their accounts.

Same on my Sprint phone years ago, it didn't even support MMS...

Once the phones GET and e-mail, they can reply. My wife can't "create" an e-mail on her phone withotu a data plan, but for the $10 a month, she uses that instead of txt/mms and then she gets the mobile browser too.

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[Rich0]

Are you certain that these accounts don't have an SMS/MMS data plan? I believe that for $10/month/line Verizon gives unlimited SMS/MMS - if they have that plan then the reason it is "free" is the fact that they're already paying for it.

Most US providers do not allow free SMS/MMS messages to be sent, and emails are treated the same as these services. Using email also tends to be a little clumsy from the standpoint that nobody knows what the email address pattern is for provider foo. Also - if I gave you my cell phone number, you could easily SMS/MMS me, but to send an email to my phone you'd have to figure out who my provider was in the first place.

Re:Not an issue of AT&T, Apple, or "Fanboys"

[Sandbags]

Yup, certain. Parent's have a base plan, 450 minites, no text plan. Wife has no text plan either. Bill never shows charges from me sending her messages.

Yes, you need to know the provider, but that's actually nice since it prevents completely random "wrong number" messages in most cases.

*sigh* ...

[Sonic McTails]

I'm no Apple lover (nor do I have any great love of Microsoft), but I can at least say Microsoft was never THIS bad with Windows Mobile nor did they lock you down into this kind of ecosystem of control. At least you could write your own programs from Windows Mobile and extend it all you want without Microsoft trying to break you (or being obsessively married to the carrier). Apple-fanboi's take note: I can take control of any other smartphone (Windows Mobile, Blackberry, Android*, etc and get it to do what I want) * - Android phones DO lock out root on non-developer devices, which is unfortunate, and T-Mobile has brought down the hammer on tethering apps in the marketplace (although you can still install them manually).

Swinging back to the Blackberry...

[mattr]

As posted recently I really wanted an iPhone because of the big screen (big Blackberry not available here, only Bold) but was going to get Blackberry because it allows tethering, my friend said. Then I found out iPhone could too. Oh, okay I go to buy an iPhone last week.

THANK GOD I did not buy the iPhone. I lucked out since they need special papers to buy through my company. Now I'm just going to sit back and watch the fireworks until Apple rolls over. Someone should tell them what happened to Amazon when Jeff stole 1984! (Which reminds me of a famous Apple TV ad... Listening, Steve?)

For the record I went into a store yesterday looking at a new loaded Macbook Pro to go with my planned iPhone, my first return back to Apple since leaving it some years ago for Linux and Windows. I always remembered how Apple screws its customers, going back to the Apple III (yes I had an Apple II Integer Basic/Pascal too). A LONG time Apple lover, who dared to return but NOOOO! Tough love indeed. I was going to run XP in virtual pc instances on the Macbook but it is starting to look like corporate crap sticking out of the corners. I had no idea the iphone would be invisible from the Mac!

Re:Swinging back to the Blackberry...

[dunkelfalke]

Windows Mobile phones are kings when it comes to the screen size and resolution (Toshiba TG01 with a 4.1" WVGA display). The second place goes to the HTC Touch HD (device has got the same size as the iPhone, but with a 3.8" WVGA display)

Re:Swinging back to the Blackberry...

[crle]

I'm also very glad I never purchased the IPhone. Tethering with my Blackberry 8330 on Verizon works incredibly well.

Re:Swinging back to the Blackberry...

[TRRosen]

RTFA...tethering works fine on a legitimate plan. Your 100% good to go.

Re:Swinging back to the Blackberry...

[timbck2]

I was going to run XP in virtual pc instances on the Macbook but it is starting to look like corporate crap sticking out of the corners. I had no idea the iphone would be invisible from the Mac!

WTF are you talking about? This makes absolutely no sense!

Re:Swinging back to the Blackberry...

[mattr]

Really? Thank you. Then back in the running. One thing you can say about Apple is they make things you want. The Macbook Pro is #3 in top 20 laptops but actually has more hd and cpu than the top 1 and 2.

Re:Swinging back to the Blackberry...

[mattr]

Not sure which statement you are pointing at.
A recent slashdot interview with a security researcher investigating how to secure hardware says she runs windows in three virtual machines (like virtual pc) on her mac. They are named red, yellow and green IIRC with e.g. green being just for Internet banking and nothing else whereas red would be for daily surfing but it is zeroed on each virtual boot.
Regarding iphone being invisible, I read in a post that the iPhone after the latest OS X update is no longer visible in network prefs on the macbook.
However the above poster says actually tethering is enabled, so maybe all the tons of posts I have read about it on the net are all nuts.
I will wait and see as an iPhone is desirable but not a survival requirement.

Apple. It just...works?

[Chas]

Except when they don't want it to.

Meh

[His Shadow]

I'd like to get all hot and bothered, but I just can't. I have a legal data bundle with tethering included for which I have paid. Apple is not calling all the shots in this game, they have to at least pay lip service to providers wishes. If that means people not on explicit data plans with tethering get shafted, it's a hiccup. I'm sure it will get fixed. But don't let that stop anyone from going all fscking crazy about the imaginary freedoms they never had on other platforms until Apple changed the smart phone game.

Re:Meh

[Idiomatick]

Tethering is ok on other phones on the same networks.

Apple killed tethering for all networks nothing based on the providers individual wishes.

Apple has enough swing that they can tell providers to fuck themselves over this kinda thing.

Apple did not change the smartphone game. WM has been there longer, is more open and more widespread.

Re:Meh

[FlyingBishop]

Did you RTFA? Apple disables tethering for companies that aren't Apple partners. It has nothing to do with whether or not the carrier allows tethering. Apple is still living in a world where they can shove an authorized provider down their customer's throats, as if they weren't doing business in Europe, where the phone and the service are supposed to be separate.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

> platforms until Apple changed the smart phone game.

"Tethering", i.e. using the telephone as a modem, was available before the words "smartphone" or "tethering" even existed.

Apple changed nothing, they've only invented a new marketing language for old features and built an online market around it.

Fortunately there are other companies like Microsoft and Google which have comparable offerings. Otherwise I'd be really worried!

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the more likely case is that Apple has changed the default tethering to "Off" and has explicitly switched it back on for official tethered plans with official networks.

This looks to me much more like a massive oversight rather than an evil conspiracy.

Re:Meh

[julesh]

But don't let that stop anyone from going all fscking crazy about the imaginary freedoms they never had on other platforms until Apple changed the smart phone game.

Huh? The first smartphone I used tethering on was a Nokia Communicator 9000, back in '96. When precisely did Apple get involved in the market?

Re:Meh

[dwater]

> Apple changed nothing?

I'm no Apple fan, but come on...for a start, they woke the whole US market up to the value of smart phones; and data plans too...making flat rate plans much more profitable which is game changing in itself; then they made the app store concept popular, even though many had already existed for years (eg Handango). Heck, they even made touch screens popular - I don't much care for capacitative ones they use, but I choose a different phone (I use the awesome Nokia N900 which has a very nice resistive screen).

In my book, Apple changed a lot when they entered the market, and generally for the better.

I think it's good Apple is evil, since that makes an opening for other manufacturers.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you forget what website you're on?

AAPL should be forced to forefeit the iPhone name

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple should be forced to forfeit the iPhone trademark, and rename it the Battered Wife Phone. Because iPhone users suffer from Battered Wife Syndrome.

Apple only takes away my features because they love me!

Maybe you should have ...

[petes_PoV]

I didn't cringe when ...

Why the hell not - any single one of these would be a show-stopper for normal customers on any other phone product.

Re:Maybe you should have ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I highly doubt that all of those combined, let alone individually, would be a show-stopper for normal customers. It all sounds fairly standard actually (from a Canadian stand point) except for the two year contract for the cheap phone (that'd be pretty sweet, most good phones require a 3 year contract in Canada).

Re:Maybe you should have ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't cringe when ...

Why the hell not - any single one of these would be a show-stopper for normal customers on any other phone product.

Nothing is a showstopper for Mac fantards, they'd likely continue to evangelize the phone even if a new OS update gave them regular electric shocks when using the phone with non-official carriers.

Baseband locking

[goombah99]

I was under the impression, perhaps wrongly, that apple was locking their phones basebands. That is the locking is occuring in the cell-phone part of the phone which has it's very own firmware and DSP not the main "operating system" CPU part of the phone. So this tethering denial may be just a side effect of the well known baseband locking that occurs when they lock the cell phone to a carrier class. The iphone Dev team has never cracked the Cell phone firmware.

I think it might be "pre"-mature to say the pre is completely open source. The CPU part of the phone might be, but does that assure that they won't permenantly lock the carrier class? I could imagine that some service providers might want Palm to do just that in return for subsidizing the phone.

We shall see. Right now there's not enough Pre phones out there for the main market let alone a gray market of re-banded phones to be siginficant. Apple did not start locking the phones this way till the 3G. the 2G phones supposedly, it is said, can't be locked that way. But I honestly don't know enough to argue the matter, I'm just repeating what i've gleaned on the iphone-dev team blogs.

Re:Baseband locking

[aetherworld]

You're right, the lock occurs in the phone's baseband. That's why the next *sn0w unlock by the iphone dev team will probably modify the .ipsw file so that you can update your phone to 3.1 WITHOUT updating the baseband, thus allowing both tethering AND downgrades to 3.0. TFA is WRONG. I have a contract in my country which allows tethering and while it's true that tethering stopped working immediately after the 3.1 update, my provider unlocked tethering a few days later.

Re:Baseband locking

[marcansoft]

Apple locks the baseband and the application processor. Newer phones (3G, 3GS) use bootloaders signed specifically for your CPU. This means not only will they only run officially signed software, they will only run officially signed software that Apple has specifically signed for your phone (this happens using a server that they own during the iTunes upgrade process). This also means that unless you have a dump of a vulnerable bootloader version signed for your phone, you can't downgrade without finding a vulnerability in the current version of the software.

Re:Baseband locking

[goombah99]

Well I've unlocked my phone. so application signing is irrelevant. as for signing the firmware well that's not how it works. you get an apple .ipsw file that is not uniquely signed then transfer this to the phone. you can do this transfer either from itunes, which for all i know might be signing it as it transfers it or from quickpwn which presumably is not signing it.

so it's not clear to me what you are talking about.

Re:Baseband locking

[marcansoft]

On the 3GS (not 3G, I was wrong about that) iTunes submits portions of the ipsw for hashing to Apple's servers before sending them to the device. Try restoring a 3.0.1 IPSW to a 3GS now: it won't work (even if that 3GS has an older version of the firmware). Apple's servers simply won't sign 3.0.1 any more. It's not that you can't downgrade, you simply cannot install anything but 3.1 on a 3GS now unless you obtained the signatures for your device from iTunes back when Apple did sign them (you can lift them from /tmp and whatnot).

Re:Baseband locking

[goombah99]

intriguing. So i'm guessing that at least in theory this Hash is crackable (since the iphone has to be able to authenticate on it's own right?) But maybe it's strong enough that no can practically crack it?

Re:Baseband locking

[marcansoft]

It's public key authentication no doubt (RSA likely). Forget about cracking it (unless they made some kind of really big huge mistake). We're way past the phase where crypto attacks show up. At this point all you can hope for are software bugs.

Re:Baseband locking

[jole]

Please give more details: what country? what provider? how they unlocked tethering?

Re-possession of already purchased functionality

[timeOday]

Can they do that?

Ha ha, just kidding. Welcome to America.

It's worse.

[anethema]

It is actually worse than this for 3.0 lovers. Apple is refusing to sign any more firmware images pre-3.1. This means if you have a problem and need to restore, you WILL be upgraded to 3.1, even if you just want to restore your 3.0. There is (as of yet, and speaking to the dev team maybe forever) no solution around this problem. You only hope would be to have grabbed your signing keys prior to the 3.1 release(or just keeping a 3.0 image around downloaded within itunes), which is something beyond most of the population.

Unfortunately, the 3.1 update also removes any ability of an unlock because they upgrade the baseband as well. I use the term upgrade loosely because they removed most of the minicom commands the baseband will accept to limit their exposure to exploits.

That being said I'm happy with my iPhone because I'm in the small minority of people who jailbreak their phones and don't hit update until a dev team member has a solution for me to upgrade without losing the functionality I've come to enjoy.

Re:It's worse.

[anethema]

Ah crap, sorry to reply to my own commend, but I forgot to mention this signing issue only applies to the 3GS. 3G firmware images are unsigned.

The only thing you lose if you upgrade the 3G without pwnagetool is losing the ability to unlock (again, possibly forever).

Re:It's worse.

[MrCrassic]

You can always restore the iPhone in DFU mode and use the *ipsw of your choice...

Re:It's worse.

[anethema]

You cannot, that is what I'm talking about.

With the 3GS, the images are signed by apple at time of download. Unless you have saved a 3.0 or 3.0.1 ipsw that you downloaded yourself, you will NOT be able to restore below 3.1 ever again.

Re:It's worse.

[Anonymous Coward]

They removed the AT commands? What a bunch of dicks.

interesting

[binaryseraph]

What is funny about this, is that people are defending Apple and attacking AT&T over this. As if Apple was taken advantage of. I think we are starting to see the real underbelly of the mac beast. This is their product and you WILL use it how they tell you to.

shocked i say

[strack]

really, im not surprised apple is doing this sort of thing. their hardware may be good, but their totalitarian control over the software environment ruins it. it lost them the personal computer market, and it seems they havent learned that lesson.

Re:shocked i say

[insertwackynamehere]

Slashdot collectively loves to hate Apple, sometimes even more than Microsoft, but this is Slashdot. Apple is doing just fine and your discontent does not equate to them doing badly. The iPhone, the iPod and the reinvention of themselves and their personal computers have brought them a long way and they are doing just fine. Talking about Apple losing the PC market makes me feel like I stepped off a time machine and hit 1996 as PC World raves about Microsoft Office on Windows 95 and Tupac still raps about pagers blowing up.

Re:shocked i say

[morgauxo]

But WHY oh WHY is it not losing them the phone market? I fear a generation gap... Someone failed to teach the value of freedom to their children and they might not lose the market this time.

Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[diamondsw]

A hack that has been disabled at AT&T's request, just like it would be on any other phone that has updates. Apple didn't "remove a feature" - the iPhone can still tether just fine - as long as your carrier supports it.

Does it suck? Hell yes. Is it unexpected? Hell no.

This was in all of the betas, and known about two months ago. If you were "in the know" enough to install a hacked carrier profile on your device, then you should have been following closely enough to know not to install the update. (Oh, and the Pre and it's "free" homebrew community? What about those mandatory updates that install themselves after ten days? And the data collection Palm does? Apple doesn't even do either of those.)

Throw this down at AT&T's feet, not Apple's. Apple certainly has no interest in you tethering or not. If anything, it makes their device more valuable, so they have an interest in allowing it. But clearly AT&T would rather rape you at an unspecified future date for an unspecified amount of money. All the more reason for Apple to leave AT&T as soon as possible.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[julesh]

A hack that has been disabled at AT&T's request, just like it would be on any other phone that has updates. Apple didn't "remove a feature" - the iPhone can still tether just fine - as long as your carrier supports it.

This doesn't appear to be true. Based on what I've read, tethering is only possible now if your carrier supports it *and* Apple supports your carrier. For instance, Orange here in the UK support tethering on most plans. But Orange isn't a supported carrier for iPhone (as Apple have an exclusive deal with O2), so even if a buy an unlocked iPhone from Apple, I wouldn't be able to use it for tethering on Orange.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[robpoe]

(Oh, and the Pre and it's "free" homebrew community? What about those mandatory updates that install themselves after ten days? And the data collection Palm does? Apple doesn't even do either of those.)

Every provider keeps that kind of data on you. It's just that someone found the API on the Pre.

You can make the updates not happen on the Pre. You just make the updater not executable on the filesystem.

And it is free -- no matter how you use the quotes.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you aware that the "Data Collection" was probably the contacts backup that you have the option of turning off if you so choose?

The more you know...

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[stiller]

As the owner of a carrier-neutral iPhone (I actually paid the full amount in Belgium for a phone without strings attached), I use a "hacked" profile. It's actually perfectly legal for me to do so, as I pay my carrier for "full" data bundle, including tethering support. In this specific case, tethering is still enabled after the 3.1 update. So either Apple makes an exception for simlock-free phones, or my profile slipped through the checks. Any ideas?

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[ElSupreme]

No Apple does not have a interest in you being able to tether. They get a cut of your $40 a month tethering plan. That is why this is disabled for ALL CARRIERS that are not APPLE partners. You can't do it unless they get a cut. Even if you have an unlocked phone, you CAN'T tether on a non Apple partner network.

In the US no network (to my knowledge) allows 'free' tethering from devices, that costs extra. So your 'as long as your carries supports it' still sort of works, but if T-Mobile decided to start supporting tethering tomorrow your iPhone WILL NOT be able to do it.
But I still have my free tethering, so no big deal.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

If you had RTFA, or even the summary, you'd have seen that tethering has been disabled on ALL phones on ALL carriers, everywhere.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Updates are never mandatory - you get informed that there's an update, but it's never forced. Updates are OTA btw, which is much nicer than having to have your phone connected to the computer.

The data collection, AFAIK, is limited to Google, is optional, & can easily be disabled (you are also asked when you create your profile). Also, anonymous logs are gathered and sent if something crashes.

I'm a Palm employee, but my opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent that of Palm's.

http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/Palm_Pre_privacy/ has an analysis, but some of the information is wrong (for instance the GPS stuff, AFAIK, is the Google data collection that is optional).

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to be forgetting there's a world outside of the US.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, guess who didn't read the article!

Not all iPhones are on fucking AT&T you fucking nitwit. Some people bought UNLOCKED iPhones to use on THEIR PREFERRED CARRIER. With a tethering plan from that carrier. Now they can't use their phone on their network because apple says so.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

> Throw this down at AT&T's feet, not Apple's.

Would love to, except I read the forums and saw one guy posting about getting screwed despite his legal tethering agrement with his ISP. In Portugal.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Kjella]

A hack that has been disabled at AT&T's request, just like it would be on any other phone that has updates. Apple didn't "remove a feature" - the iPhone can still tether just fine - as long as your carrier supports it.

No, it disables tethering on all ISPs worldwide except those blessed by Apple, including those that have no problem with it.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[TRRosen]

in the US no carrier supports tethering a smartphone period.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry - I'm actually not sure about the update part on shipping phones, maybe it's different.

I'm a Palm employee, but my opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent that of Palm's.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[ElSupreme]

http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/services/serviceDetails.jsp?catId=cat1360001&skuId=sku2940233

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/mobilebroadband/?page=products_connect

Yeah no one supports tethering!!! Looks like half (the much larger half) of the US market does support tethering! You're supposed to pay extra!

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[ras]

Throw this down at AT&T's feet, not Apple's.

Nope, I'd definitely lay it at Apples feet.

Compare Apple to Nokia. Both allow the phones they sell to be locked down. Both do it in a similar way - the carrier loads a file into the phone. It's called the mobileconfig by Apple, I gather. The difference? If you buy a Nokia outright, nothing is locked down. That makes sense - it is your phone after all. The only way a carrier can lock a Nokia down is to sell it to you locked - presumably at a discount for the privilege.

In typical Apple fashion however, when they sell you an iPhone everything is locked down. You have to go begging for a mobileconfig from your carrier so you can use the features you thought you paid a premium. But the carrier can't produce one unless Apple has given them the cryptographic keys, and if the carrier doesn't have a business relationship with Apple (ie pays them), they can't give you one.

It is all a huge con on Apple's part. You can't really buy an unlocked iPhone outright, in the same way as you can from Nokia. Sure Apple is happy to charge you the premium for what you think is outright ownership. But you still can't use all the features on the phone unless you pay Apple addition rent for those features via the tax they put on the carrier.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[anethema]

While this does suck the GP is right. Tethering was enabled by forcing your computer to accept carrier bundle files that people hacked to make tethering work. All apple did was close the 'hole' of the custom carrier files. They did not specifically disable tethering or anything else, just only allowed carrier bundles from the carriers, as they intended in the first place.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[appleguru]

Correct... which is not the way it should be. Apple is now signing the APN settings for tethering in the carrier bundles; without the signing key you can't modify the tethering settings. If they *must* pull some BS like this to appease the carriers, they should do it on a "whitelist" basis; IE *if* your carrier is AT&T (Just about the only carrier that gives a shit how their customers use the data they rightfully paid for... Ugh...), *then* you enforce the signed APN policy. Otherwise, the user can set whatever carrier settings they desire, based on what their carrier *actually supports*. Gee, what a novel idea! This whole "blacklisting" way of enforcing carrier tethering settings is moronic and the byproduct of AT&T being a bunch of greedy asshats at the detriment of... everyone else.

That said, the dev team will hopefully eventually release a workaround... IE, modify the software to ignore the signatures and work as it did before.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[LostMyBeaver]

Using iPhone 3.1 in Norway on a phone which I bought, then canceled the plan on and unlocked.

No issue here.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps I've got the wrong meaning of tethering, here, but WTF does your carrier have to say about it? How can they support it? How can it not work (unless they control the phone software, of course)?

It'd be like saying "I was going to set up a home network, but my ISP doesn't support NAT.

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[nilbog]

You don't think Apple knows what applications you have installed? Do you remember that you can ONLY buy applications through Apple's store and that there is no way on Earth that they don't have a record of those purchases. And location services? Do you even know how cell phone towers work?

Re:Tethering on AT&T was a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple didn't "remove a feature" - the iPhone can still tether just fine - as long as your carrier supports it.

They DID remove a feature -- a lot of carriers have a plan where you get a SIM, pop it into whatever you'd like for tethering. Except an IPhone, due to Apple artificially removing (or blocking) the feature.

          I don't care, I don't have an IPhone, both due to Apple (this is absolutely the kind of thing they would do..) and due to GSM (all 3 CDMA carriers here have EVDO, 0 out of 2 GSM carriers have any sort of 3G.) So I really don't care about threm removing it, but you shouldn't pretend they didn't remove a feature.

Not news

[Idiomatick]

This isn't news this is apple being apple. Not at all surprising. Apple makes most of their money by making things specifically not work. Like DRM, I know itunes stopped mostly now but they are the ones that spread DRM in the first place.

Re:Not news

[NameIsDavid]

What a load. Walk into an Apple store one day. Apple makes most of its money by making a closed system of tied hardware-software systems that tend to just work as intended without the need for a lot of user training, hacking or other special tweaking. Such systems happen to also be hacker-unfriendly and to sometimes lag behind in features. However, given that Apple explicitly advertises itself as such, there is no deception here. Indeed, the "bad" is on the tech blog community which has purchased Apple products despite the knowledge that it a controlled, closed system and then has bad-mouthed Apple because it isn't open. As for DRM, not that there were no legal music distribution services involving all the major labels until iTunes. This is because DRM was the technology that convinced the labels to finally allow for mass digital distribution. Even today, all subscription-based services use DRM, all of which are non-Apple. It's convenient to forget history.

Re:Not news

[Idiomatick]

"making things specifically not work" ...
"a closed system of tied hardware-software"
"hacker-unfriendly and to sometimes lag behind in features" (Missing features and nothing you can do about it)

As for DRM i'd have been happy with them not opening that can until the RIAA starved to death.

Re:Not news

[DJCacophony]

Apple opted to use DRM not because the music companies forced them to, but because it was beneficial to Apple. The only "evidence" behind what you're saying is what Steve Jobs himself claims. "Oh, help us, help us, we're a poor multi-billion dollar company, the music companies are having their way with us and there's nothing we can do about it!" It's a huge load of bullshit. Any company opposed to DRM would refuse to do business with any labels that forced it upon them. Apple only pretended to be opposed to DRM so they could play the victim to their fans while simultaneously making millions off them through vendor lock-in. Once they had the lock-in they needed, with millions of people having already bought ipods, made itunes accounts, and gotten used to the music pipeline between the two, Apple started offering limited DRM-less tracks in a format obscure to most mp3 players that weren't made by themselves, and later on released all their music in the same, rarely-seen-on-mp3-players format. Hooray, the assholes who were punching us in the face to begin with, are now only punching us in the stomach! What heroes! Industry pioneers!

MAC WORLD story time again!

[MindlessAutomata]

I've always been a PC at heart.

Not like the rest, the others. Everyone around me. I was at odds with my society and knew it early since birth. Unlike them, I did not "Think Different!"--the mantra of the Macs around me, the phrase on all the billboards in the city that served as a reminder to its citizenry. Sameness pervaded the essence of my being and no amount of self-conditioning I did could change that. Eventually, I gave up and isolated myself emotionally from society.

I gaze at the faces going by, the white earphones contrasting their black turtlenecks, connecting their ears to their pockets, their blank faces engrossed in hip Indie rock music and various garage bands. I envied them for their perfection against my flaws and my compulsive nature to expand, to burden my life with troubles instead of remaining, like them, simple and easy to deal with. The grandest of virtues, simplicity... the philosophy by our loyal benefactor Steve Jobs, who descended from the heavens, creating the Earth, the iron, the wind and the rain. Steve Jobs, who defined the parameters of existence, the one who set about the patterns of reality, the constants, the variables. He who made gravity, electromagnetic energy, and shaped atomic structures and brought forth motion. From these things, he crafted the elements, processed them, refined them, and from these things engineered Apple products through the purity of his mind. Each Apple product was individually crafted by his own hands with the programming code used to run each device having being compiled in his brain and uploaded to each device telepathically, breathing life and perfection into each and every unit.

Except, it seems, for me, for I was not among the many. I was a PC. They were Macs. I've always been a cold, stiff person. I got by, disguising myself by keeping my non-Ipod music player safely out of sight, which I use because of my depraved nature demanding more functionality than the simple and easy-to-use Ipods have to offer.. In the safety of my own home, behind locked doors, I ran a Forbidden, a contraband computer from more depraved, earlier days that was not given the love and blessing of being birthed by Steve Jobs. I dual booted, out of the great sin of curiosity-- curiosity, a shameful value of a PC, as curiosity has no place where simplicity matters most--using two of the great unutterable blasphemies-- something called "Windows Vista" and something else called "Linux." Although, as I mentioned before, although my tendency to be a PC and towards conformity has always been inherent to me, I was truly transformed when I found these old things in a hidden cache of computer parts predating The Purging. Perhaps the greatest sin of all, the single evil that, if discovered, would damn me forever, was the fact that my mouse had more than one button.

As I walk among the Macs on the streets, passing the Starbuckses as I went along, I wondered how it all came to this. I glanced at The Holy Marks on the foreheads as the people wandered down the streets, the Bitten Apple tattooed on all our of us at birth, and wondered if, perhaps, there could be something more to life. But again, this was a PC's thought, and not, like everyone elses', a Mac's. We were to hold ourselves to the philosophy of Steve Jobs--so as his products were designed for idiots, so too were we to be idiots. But I was not a Mac--I was not an idiot. I was simply too complicated to be a worthwhile person.

Nature called. I found a nearby public iPoo--squeaky clean and sparkly white, things weren't all bad--and let myself go, expelling the waste that had accumulated inside me. After relieving myself and committing the overly-complicated and thus illegal act of wiping my ass (I did not flush as iPoos, designed to be idiot-proof, did not flush) I left and once again wandered the streets aimlessly, hoping to find some meaning in a world where I simply did not belong, a world where if my true nature was discovered, I would be endlessly persecuted by smug, self-righteous sons of bitches.

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't work as satire, humor, or commentary. Go take an English class.

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[MindlessAutomata]

^ Apple fan

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[tru3ntropy]

Steve Jobs is the architect; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architect_(The_Matrix)

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[mehrotra.akash]

+5 funny
+100 true

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[insertwackynamehere]

Hey, you're not Neal Stephenson. You're not George Orwell. You aren't anything. Shut up and GTFO

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[morgauxo]

There is hope for you! You are well on your way toward becoming a Mac. You didn't wash your hands!

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[kindbud]

You hit your peak at "Unlike them, I did not Think Different." It goes downhill from there, finally landing in a soggy trench full of envy.

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[Anonymous Coward]

hello. have you written this? if not, where did you get it from?
cheers!

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[bvonr]

I don't care if this passes as satire or fiction or fact, it was a good read. I loved it :-)

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[MindlessAutomata]

Yes, I wrote it, feel free to share.

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's awesome. It was shared on my wall on FB, and was wondering who wrote that...
have you got a FB ?

Re:MAC WORLD story time again!

[MindlessAutomata]

yes, facebook.com/kaczor

Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[sg_oneill]

Weird. Tethering is on my 3.1 phone. Not sure whats happening to you folks.

General menu -> Netowork ->Tethering -> On.

About says:
Network: YES OPTUS (australian carrier)
Line: Virgin Mobile
Version: 3.1 (7C144)

I'm on the developer program so maybe developers get extra goodies?

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[matlhDam]

Virgin Mobile here in .au are both official Apple partners and allow tethering, so it would have been pretty unusual if it had been disabled.

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[artemis67]

Yep, it's gone. I'm in the US, where AT&T is still dragging their feet on tethering and MMS. I didn't jailbreak my iPhone, but I did download the Network configuration file that unlocked Apple's built-in tethering capability. After reading this story, I went and checked it in the Settings; still there. I switched it on. Nothing happened. I go back into Settings, and now the tethering option is gone. They spiked it.

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[KeithJM]

I'm not on the developer program. I have my phone plugged into my Mac, turned on tethering in settings and a window popped up on my (Mac) screen saying a new network device had been detected. I'm pretty sure it still works on 3.1. This is with AT&T.

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[TRRosen]

So they disabled your illegal hack preventing you from stealing service...cry me a river.

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not on the developer program, and I just turned on tethering on my iPhone. 3.1 is installed, and I'm on AT&T.

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now you can share the fast 3G connection on your iPhone with your Mac or PC and connect to the Internet from just about anywhere â" no Wi-Fi required.Tethering is not currently offered in the U.S. and some other countries. See your carrier for availability.

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[Anonymous Coward]

being able to run any program you like, it probably wouldn't have stopped you anyway :P

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[Attrition_cp]

I'm on Rogers in Canada and Tethering still works.

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not a developer...or using beta software.

1) I am in Denmark.
2) I purchased a 3GS (on Telia)
3) It is LEGALLY unlocked (i use it on TDC)
4) I am running 3.1 software.
5) I have the option to use tethering.

Re:Uh. y'all sure its been disabled?

[Anonymous Coward]

Like the Netowork menu?

i cant stand

[nimbius]

mac fanboys crying about their expensive telephone and masquerading it as a slashdot article. i especially love how the submitter stated "very expensive" when describing the unlocked phones. you didnt buy a macphone for the cost savings, so stop acting like its suddenly an issue.

the cognitive dissonance here is mac users are starting to realize no matter how great a guy steve jobs is for the I culture, Ma bell will always have the last word. no, they dont share the mac philosophy of innovation and ease of use because it goes against their closed system of regulated service. you knew this when you owned a regular cellphone before you bought the i-phone and continued to ignore it. you knew the telco was screwing you for the cost of the phone, the cost of the data service, and the support but you ignored it because of the cool factor.

heres your tipping point: dont like it? stop buying it. innovation or no, if its at the cost of your freedoms which you so easily discard time and time again, is it really worth it? This device isnt designed to further the culture of mac or innovation, its designed to make money. its designed to use the mac brand, the mac cult, and steve jobs to make money. had AT&T a say, they would just as soon abolish advanced features and run everything off AS400's for all eternity but the customer constantly demands more, and they see the tie-in with apple as a chance for branding.

Re:i cant stand

[insertwackynamehere]

you think mac fanbois submit this crap? its people like you who eat up "APPLE DOES SOMETHING WRONG AGAIN" stories apple is the microsoft of this decade as nerds constantly berate it for no reason except that "open source linux steve jobs is evil" sounds like "open source linux bill gates is evil" to me. and, hey its equally stupid, if not more so, because microsoft was at least berated for making products that barely worked!

Re:i cant stand

[Anonymous Coward]

That key to the left of 'Z', use it.

Re:i cant stand

[bill_mcgonigle]

mac fanboys crying about their expensive telephone

actually it's Apple fanboys. As a former Mac fan, I was saddened to see Apple take the direction they did with the iPhone, which no doubt portends the Mac's future. I wonder how bad it has to get before Woz gives up too.

There is no freedom on smartphones

[diamondsw]

So deal with it already, and quit with the hysterics. There's been Nothing New To See Here for years now.

• iPhone: Single vendor/carrier in most areas, with significant lock-in. Tightly tied to iTunes on the desktop and the app store. Jailbreaking possible, of course, but it can be fragile.
• Pre: Single vendor/carrier, with significant lock-in. Mildly less application lock-in with homebrew hacking, but not all that different from iPhone jailbreaking. OS updates are mandatory so this can change at any time (they're installed automatically after ten days). Palm collects obscene amounts of data on its users, so goodbye privacy.
• Android: "Free" - until you try to get root access, and then we're back to fairly involved hacking again. So as usual, only as free as they let you be.

So yeah - NONE of these phones are remotely free out of the box. All of them can be hacked to do what you want with them. Pick your poison.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[mmurphy000]

The difference with Android, versus the other two options, is that the hardware manufacturer and the OS implementer are decoupled.

Android supports root just fine. However, device manufacturers offer no official means to get to root and no official means to flash root-enabled system images. This is no different than Linux supporting root but TiVo not exactly enabling it on their DVRs.

What Android needs is some manufacturer to step up and offer root-capable devices, with limited muss or fuss.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[Beleglin]

Nokia N900 seems really good and really *free* - even root access is allowed.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[Anonymous Coward]

what's your take on the nokia N900, the one that's running linux? though admittedly not out yet.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[LordKazan]

What happened to Windows Mobile. I don't particularily give a crap what the phones running as long as it works

Oh and I have a tethering "work around". ICS+program that starts it up as an adhoc node in a wireless network and exposes the shared network connection.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[urulokion]

...until now (well it's is coming "Soon (tm)"). The new Nokia N900. A truely open mobile computer (with a phone). It's Debian under the fancy Maemo hood. Albeit not x86.

Getting a root shell using the building Xterm is very easy for those that want to do it, and are a bit technically inclined. Add a certain repo, add the rootsh .deb, open xterm, sudo gain root, and viola! Or you can enable R&D mode using the flasher (firmware updater) utility.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[0xdeadbeef]

So deal with it already, and quit with the hysterics. There's been Nothing New To See Here for years now.

"The pot is comfortably warm, and has been for quite a while. No need to get upset." said the frog in boiling water.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia: can use any GSM network wordwide, tethers, uses open standards for USB/BT access (mounting internal storage, obex, bt tether, etc...), run anything you want either jave me or native Symbian.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[yoshi_mon]

As others have pointed out the Maemo platform is about as open as can be. And is finally going to be available on more than just a tablet.

For those interested I'm sure the hackers over on the Maemo forums can give a good breakdown as to what to expect from the n900.

Also of note are of course the Symban, WinMo, (old) Palm OS, and Blackberry platforms. With each of their own set of pro's and con's.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[GodKingAmit]

You can buy the developer version of the android from google directly that comes with root access.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[Gunstick]

if only the n900 would be offered instead of a klunky keyboard device also in a slim non-keyboard version it would easily win in the iPhone crowd.
Come on it's even thicker than the n97 which is already bulky.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[insertwackynamehere]

how can you honestly think that any phone company or manufacturer or service provider would think to themselves "hmm we need to sell more phones with this platform, lets open up root and advertise full control and opensource and linux because the general populace will eat that up unlike close sourced, easy to use, locked down phones with pretty features that the user doesnt have to worry about".

This isn't about pleasing Slashdot or nerds with strange entitlement issues it's about selling a device for profit to a community (the general public) that cares about coolness, usability and enjoyment and not whether or not they can run some homebrew application they whipped up in java that requires root access and the ability to seamlessly switch carriers.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[josath]

Umm, you can buy an Android phone, with no contract, unlocked (not tied to any carrier), officially sanctioned, with root access out of the box. What more do you want? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Dev_Phone

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually rooting an Android phone is a single click affair these days. There is even an installer to do it for you. No "fairly involved hacking" required. Here: 1-click rooting. Works like a charm on my Magic.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[Slashdot Parent]

Pre: Single vendor/carrier, with significant lock-in. Mildly less application lock-in with homebrew hacking, but not all that different from iPhone jailbreaking. OS updates are mandatory so this can change at any time (they're installed automatically after ten days). Palm collects obscene amounts of data on its users, so goodbye privacy

I can't speak for the other devices, but the Pre is exceptionally easy to load unapproved applications onto. In fact, Palm has conveniently published instructions for how to side-load applications right on its website! All that's needed is to download the freely-available SDK, follow Palm's instructions for putting your Pre into developer mode, connect your Pre to your computer using the USB cable that shipped in the Pre's box, and follow Palm's instructions for side-loading an application.

What root access to your Pre? Again, follow Palm's instructions for opening a terminal window on the Pre. There is no hacking involved.

Is it as open-source free as in speech? No, but it's pretty frickin' open, and there is a thriving homebrew community. There are several-times more homebrew apps than official, and Palm has embraced the homebrew community. Several apps have "graduated" from homebrew to the official app catalog.

For what it's worth, there is a google voice app in the official app catalog... which is more than we can say about our friends at Apple.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[Slashdot Parent]

Root access is allowed on the Pre, too. Palm has conveniently published instructions on their website for how to obtain a root prompt.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[IamTheRealMike]

Well, Google/HTC sold devices with root for a while, the "developer phones" .... so it can happen.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[dwater]

You missed (Available soon):

Maemo (Nokia N900): free...yes, even root...no hacking required. Free out of the box.

http://maemo.nokia.com/

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[dwater]

I've been loving it....and missing it since I had to give mine back.

In the meantime, I'm learning how to develop for it. Fortunately, many things are similar to the n810 (well, sdk-wise anyway).

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[Anonymous Coward]

the question is,

WHO THE HELL NEEDS ROOT?

i don't have a root account on my ubuntu linux, so why would i have one on android?

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[markdavis]

Yep, sounds a lot like the Palm Pre...

This might not be the year of the Linux Desktop... but it might be for the Linux Phone :)

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[yoshi_mon]

I've not seen the n900's but if they are anything like my n810 no argument from me as to the size/weight issue. I love my n810 for what it is but it's kinda a beast. Relatively speaking vs a modern even smart cell phone.

In fact I bought it with the idea that I'd keep my phone dumb and just lug my tablet around for a portable ebook, wifi net browsing, small game distraction type playing, kinda thing. But it ended up being far too clunky of an arrangement.

Smartphone for the road, I've got myself a new BB which is pretty solid, and then the tablet for when I'm on the couch is the way to go.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a failure even in the only country where it wasn't laughed at.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[mjwx]

What Android needs is some manufacturer to step up and offer root-capable devices, with limited muss or fuss.

ummm...

They are. Getting a community ROM like Cyanogen onto a HTC Magic(MyTouch3G) or Dream(G1) is easy. The only problem is that you need to wait for the developer of the ROM to create one for new phones. Then there are the Android dev phones.

There are very few functions that require root access, tethering, installing other applications and so on can all be done without the need to hack your phone. The average user will almost never have any reason to hack their phones, as for the rest of us Android is incredibly hacker friendly. Manufacturers are going to continue to cater to the mass market which means no root as it's too easy for someone who doesn't know what they are doing to screw something up but Google have designed Android so that those who want to hack are not limited by the hardware manufacuter.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[jonwil]

Nokia N900 with MAEMO. Gives you root out of the box. No restrictions on what you can do. If it doesn't have features you want just install them.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[nilbog]

The Pre does not require or need jailbreaking. To install homebrew apps, you simply enable developer mode. Instructions can be found on Palm's website. So in one case you have an officially supported way of installing 3rd party applications, and in the other case you have the jailbreaking hacks and everything that that entails.

Palm has openly supported the homebrew community and made positive references to applications that exist in that space.

So yes, it is very different from iPhone jailbreaking.

Re:There is no freedom on smartphones

[xcomputer_man]

Actually the Pre's homebrew is very different from iPhone jailbreaking and is not even a "hack" anymore. For one, it does not void your warranty. Two, you don't have to circumvent any vendor restrictions to do it, and you don't even have to get root access to your phone to install homebrew apps -- all you have to do is download the novacom component from Palm's web site and a handy app installer utility. In fact, once you've installed the "Preware" app you can install homebrew apps directly to your phone OTA. Apps that start off in the homebrew catalog actually end up graduating to the "official" app catalog once they satisfy Palm's vetting requirements -- e.g. the excellent gDial Pro Google Voice app. Palm's attitude towards homebrew is very, very different from Apple's attitude towards jailbreakers.

Also, you're wrong about OS updates -- the way Palm has opened things up, it would be virtually impossible to disable homebrew without also killing off all public access to the SDK and pretty much breaking everything. Homebrew is pretty much here to stay.

That's it...

[Stenchwarrior]

...I wasn't gonna do it, but I'm jailbraking my shit again. Not because I need the added functionality, but because it's currently the only method I have to bite my thumb at CrApple (besides not buying their products...but they are just so PERTY and SHINY!!).

Re:That's it...

[DeathToBill]

Oh, the dedication; can you feel it?

PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[goombah99]

I use my iphone with T-mobile. for 1000 minutes it's $39. that's not unlimited, but I don't use that many minutes so for me it is. My data plan is $6.25 a week. I say week and not month because T-mobile lets you switch the data plan on and off at will without any impact on your plan (no new 2-year agreement). SO I only switch it on when I travel a few times a year. The rest of the time I just use WiFi for the internet. In my home town I really don't need to have google so bad that I can't just walk to a coffee shop or something to use the iphone. But on travel (especially in the car or public transit, or airport, or whatever you do need the web on the go sometimes for maps, car rentals, hotel reservations, dinner plannning, staying connected with the office).

So you might say, well yeah but sprint is unlimited and has an always on data plan. And I reply yes but I have an iphone which, presently at least, is unarguably more supported in terms of usability (apps and connectivity to easy itunes management and perifrials), has a high resale value, and uses a carrier with better coverage (including sim card conveneince for international travel).

FOr my usage pattern, which may not be yours, t-moble is by far the better deal cost wise as well.

Re:PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[TheKidWho]

The iPhone may have a high resale value, but that comes at the cost of paying $600-$1200 more over the course of a two year contract vs a Pre.

The main killer app for an unlimited data plan IMO is the capability of having always on email/web browsing and streaming internet radio via pandora. I regularly use 1-3GB/month through my data plan.

Then there is the fact that AT&T price gouges on text messaging, and the network congestion issues that they have been having.

Re:PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[commodore64_love]

I use Virgin Mobile which costs $0 per month.

Instead I'm billed on a per-minute basis, and since I rarely use my phone the overall cost is only around $1-2 per month. That's certainly an improvement over my old Cingular/AT&T plan which charged $30 each month even if I never dialed a single number.

Re:PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[goombah99]

The iPhone may have a high resale value, but that comes at the cost of paying $600-$1200 more over the course of a two year contract vs a Pre.

dude, did you read any of my post? I don't pay any extra. I bought the iphone used in craigslist and I pay regular rates on Tmobile. I don't have a 2 year contract. How am I paying $1200 more over 2 years versus a pre?

Re:PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[Anonymous Coward]

I use Virgin Mobile which costs $0 per month.

Instead I'm billed on a per-minute basis, and since I rarely use my phone the overall cost is only around $1-2 per month. That's certainly an improvement over my old Cingular/AT&T plan which charged $30 each month even if I never dialed a single number.

Great! and how's the iphone working for you on Virgin? Let me know (when you get back into your coverage area and can read this post.)

Re:PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[goombah99]

I'm curious how you enjoy virgin mobile for $2 per month. Even their cheapest minute plans require you to "top up" for at least $20 every 30 days.

Also is Vigin mobile a GSM card phone?

Re:PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[TheKidWho]

*An iPhone with AT&T is what I was comparing to.

Re:PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[zaffir]

I thought the 3G frequencies supported by the iPhone didn't fully cover TMobile's frequencies, and thus coverage was very spotty. Is that not the case?

Re:PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[commodore64_love]

Really? My plan only requires me to top-up $5 per month. Still an improvement over my old Cingular $30/month plan, which cost $30 even if I never used the phone. It was a ripoff. It's much better to be billed by the minute, so if you make zero calls, then it costs you nothing.

Re:PLan comparison: tmobile may be even better

[goombah99]

No. works on 100% of the T-mobile network as far as I can tell, and I live in a rural area.

That's iSnob

[davidwr]

Unless you are an isnob, of course.

According to the iMarketing department, all iWords must be written with the second letter in iCaps.

Re:That's iSnob

[dwater]

You forget....Apple think Different(tm)(sic)...they hate being compatible with pretty much anything and they've redefined caps to be what everyone else calls lower case.

Re:That's iSnob

[Archangel Michael]

Your statement is only partially iCorrect. Yes it is iTrue that the second letter needs to be iCaps, it isn't the iMarketing department, it is the iUsability department which has set forth the proper iCaps rules that should be adhered to.

Re:That's iSnob

[Anonymous Coward]

sheesh, like iCare

Re:That's iSnob

[Flere Imsaho]

I prefer to call them iHoles...

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

What could possibly have motivated this?

[erroneus]

Could it be the abusive wireless companies? No... they have shown time and time again that they do not improperly influence or direct Apple to do any of the things they have done lately such as removing the Google voice suite from the App store. Nope! Not a move pushed by AT&T and all the congressional investigations will show is that they didn't do it and/or don't "recall" doing it. That of course depends on the definition of what "it" means.

Cue the Apple apologists and the others who say "well? don't buy an iPhone!"

What about the poor souls who bought one with expected functionality and had it only to have it yanked out from under them.

What is really wrong here is the lines of ownership. Once someone owns something, is it proper for the previous owner to change and manage how you can use it? Sure, users don't "own" the software, but that is a matter of question there as it has been shown in other instances that copyright holders don't always have the right to control how a work is used. (yes, I know there are exceptions such as playing a DVD in a bar/club... but frankly, I don't think that limitation should be allowed either.) With every push like this, the rights of consumers are being trampled and removed. This is a big and growing problem. Consumers need to push back.

Re:What could possibly have motivated this?

[Anonymous Coward]

"What about the poor souls who bought one with expected functionality and had it only to have it yanked out from under them."

I would LOVE to see a class action suit brought against Apple for all the crap theyve been trying to pull lately. They deserve a slap in the face. And so does any fanboy that continues to tow their party line after they have demonstrated time and time again what they really think about their customers.

Re:What could possibly have motivated this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, users don't "own" the software

If only there was some kind of software that you could do with whatever you want, some kind of...like...freedom-software that you could share like a big phat blunt that never run out of pot or is consumed...

What a nice world this would be if software like that existed...

Re:What could possibly have motivated this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, that reminds me of the bad ol' days when kernel maintainers used anything in their power to break compatibility with closed-source, but otherwise perfectly functional, drivers for web cams or video cards ... How does your "once someone owns something" doctrine applies to that case? (Nope, the fact that it's open-source does not change the fact of "ownership" as you're using that word) And when users pushed back, weren't they left out in the cold, with a few insults to add to their injuries on top? I might be mis-reading you, but it sounds like a double (moral) standard to me.

Re:Apple. It just...works?

[itsdapead]

Except when they don't want it to.

No - "it just works", but in order to ensure that, Apple reserve the right to define what "it" is. The alternative policy is "do what you like - if you break it you get to keep both pieces".

That's always been Apple's policy with the iPhone/iPod. If you don't like it, other smartphones are available. If you like to tinker, get an Android or Openmoko.

So Silly, Jailbreak get PDAnet

[harknell]

This is such a useless issue to worry about. Jailbreak your phone and get PDAnet or one of the other programs that will do this. Yes, business users can't probably do this, but individuals can. It's not that hard.

Just to mix things up

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm using a "factory unlocked" iPhone 3GS with the latest 3.1 update and I have no problems with tethering. The update did not disable it. What I've done earlier to enable to tethering feature was to upload a XML-file containing my ISP information to the phone with iTunes. This does not need jailbreaking and the uploading is a supported feature. Maybe they should try this first before complaining? Why is this headlines anyway?

Re:Apple. It just...works?

[_Sprocket_]

It just depends on who's definition of "works" you're going by.

Re:Buy a Pre - tethering not included

[TRRosen]

>

in the US, a Sprint Simply Everything plan (includes Unlimited data use) is around $1000.00 cheaper a year to have.

When will you idiots stop acting like tethering is allowed on any US carrier. SPRINT DOES NOT ALLOW TETHERING with smart-phones. Neither does any other us carrier. Sprints everything plan explicitly says tethering is not allowed.

The Apple logo now makes sense.

[Zaphod-AVA]

This is why there is a bite taken out of it!

Thank you, Apple...

[gaiageek]

For giving me such a clear-cut example which I can use to educate others as to why I will not buy your products. It's ironic to think how many people might be shopping for a "crappy old phone" right now just to regain the ability to tether.

Mod UP informative and insightful

[Anonymous Coward]

mod up parent and grand parent!!!!

Tethering Isn't Disabled

[qazwart]

Tethering isn't disabled. What is disabled is tethering without the carrier giving you a signed configuration bundle to use.

I've talked to a few people who use AT&T and still have tethering on their iPhones after upgrading. They got the new configuration bundle and have no problems.

Apparently, this was a request from almost all of the official carriers to prevent the iPhone from tethering without their permission (which can be had for another $20 or so per month). This was originally aimed at supported carriers, but it is also affecting unsupported carriers too.

That's what happens when you tie the hardware to the provider.

Re:Tethering Isn't Disabled

[hacker]

"I've talked to a few people who use AT&T and still have tethering on their iPhones after upgrading. They got the new configuration bundle and have no problems."

AT&T removed tethering from every single BlackBerry device out there... at least in the heavily-dense northeast corridor here. They did this without warning, about a week after the last Apple announcement about the new iPhone 3GS and how it supports tethering, but not on AT&T.

Why? Because people who had no idea what tethering was, Googled it, found it useful, and flooded AT&T's network (and over-sold capacity), causing them to shut it down.

I've talked to no less than 100 separate people who were previously using tethering on their BB devices on the lengthy train ride to and from NYC from Boston, and they've all been locked out, including myself. It doesn't work on Windows. It doesn't work on Linux. It did the day before, and hasn't since... without any changes on our ends.

So if iPhone users can still tether, they're ahead of us now. BlackBerry users have been permanently locked out.

Fuckers.

FUD

[aristotle-dude]

AT&T disabled tethering for AT&T customers. Tethering is working fine on 3GS on Fido before and after the 3.1 update.

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[TRRosen]

sorry to burst your bubble but no US carrier offers tethering for smart phones. NONE NADA ZERO

About to dump my iPhone service

[CmdrPorno]

I've had an original iPhone from the beginning. I live in a rural area with no AT&T 3G service. The 2G service at my office is terrible--I've complained to AT&T several times about this, and have been essentially told to fuck off and die each time I've complained.

I'm no longer under contract and don't use that many minutes per month. I'm on the verge of dumping the voice and data service and switching to a TracFone for my cell phone service. I'd keep using the iPhone for music, video, and wifi web access. AT&T can suck it.

Re:Apple. It just...works?

[insertwackynamehere]

I must say that having developed for Android and iPhone, iPhone was much more enjoyable of an experience. I think Android has a good platform, but its not all there yet. I like the feel of my iPhone apps much more, whereas like most non-Apple GUIs and window systems, Android feels clunky and non-standard. Android, however, hosted my app immediately whereas Apple takes weeks and weeks of unknown approval status to either a) give you some bullshit reason your app isn't accepted, so fix it and start the process over or b) allow your app in the store and then watch as everyone says "great but *bug*" and quickly scramble to fix the bug and then wait yet again for Apple to approve your new bugfix version.

I don't get it

[acid06]

Seriously, I don't get why tech savyy people keep buying iPhones.
Sure, they're pretty. I considered buying one too. The UI is awesome.

But... come on, censoring dictionary applications? No tethering until 2009, and then, a few months later they disable it for anyone not on the "premium networks"? What the fuck?

I really happy with my cheap Nokia Symbian phone which cost me 1/5 of an unlocked iPhone. Sure, it's not as pretty, but it has a native SIP client, multi-tasking, Java and I can even write applications in Python if I wanted to. When will the iPhone beat that?

Re:I don't get it

[dwater]

mod parent up....even Symbian is better.

You can use many other languages too. I even have a web server running on my phone using Nokia's http://mymobilesite.net/...ok, so it's beta and can disappear at any time, but it has an integrated tunnelling feature so it even works from behind firewalls/etc. Very useful.

Symbian phones are cheap and plentiful. Personally, I've been enjoying the Nokia N900, but have had to give it back. I hope to get a new one soon :D

You get what you chose

[morgauxo]

It is not a good idea to chose Apple products if you want an ability like tethering.

If an ability is outside of what Apple offers on a shiny plate in their app store you can't trust Apple not to take it away. Apple has always tried to control exactly what their users can do. It's Apple that locks it's users into a marketplace where they actively censor any software they don't like. It's Apple that completely locks out the ability to tether.

Isn't this how it's always been? Apple cares to control what you do with their product even after you pay for it. This has been apparent since the early days of Apple vs the IBM clones. This is why Microsoft grew to become the evil monopoly we would all like to see fall and Apple has been relegated to a distant number 2.

Even the carriers aren't really all that active in trying to prevent people from tethering. They could easily route their traffic through proxies, only forwarding protocols which are likely to be used on a phone. Care for some web only internet anyone? Maybe limit the bandwidth of individual streams, how much bandwidth is needed for a mobile phone optimized stream with it's tiny screen and low fidelity speakers vs one meant for a lap/desktop? I think the fact that carriers even offer as high of bandwidth as they do to the cellphone indicates they really are interested in catering to all their customers including those who insist on tethering even if they wish to discourage as many as possible of the less stubborn users from using the bandwidth they have paid for.

An open source phone is probably the only way to ensure the capabilities you care about will still be there after the next update. Android and Pre might be nice if your on a network which can support them. Also, I don't think Google has enough track record in the cellphone business to accurately predict what moves they might make next. If I'm going to pay 3 digits for anything, including a phone I want to know it will still do what I want it to do for at least 3 years. I suppose Palm has a track record with their old Palm OS offerings. How locked down were they?

Stuck on a CDMA network it's down to Windows Mobile. Evil, closed source monopoly as they may be it's been possible to tether their phones for a long time now! And they also allow you to install whatever program you want whenever from wherever. This is completely opposite of Apple and of the two it's the more open, consumer friendly stance to take.

I suspect that other vendors don't completely lock their users out because they are only out for money. They add hoops to jump through because the carriers make them. But if you are purchasing their device with real money and the carrier is allowing it then what do they care if you re-enable tethering? The carriers discourage open tethering because they want more money but they don't really pursue disconnecting those who tether because that would eliminate paying customers.

Peple however seems to be a completely different form of evil. They aren't just out for money, Apple employees exist to keep the inflated ego of Steve Jobs supplied with a plentiful quantity of hot air. If you install an app from outside the store, enable a feature Apple disabled or otherwise diverge from what Apple wants it is a personal jab at Jobs ego and must be squelched.

Re:You get what you chose

[morgauxo]

If you wanted tethering and you bought an iPhone you are a moron!

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[PrimaryConsult]

Eh? I've had Sprint tethering to my PPC 6700 for three years now, no hacks no mods, with the $10 vision plan. Apparently with WM6 and higher a registry hack is needed, but WM5's Sprint ROM has it right out of the box, which is why I'm using this phone until they stop replacing it when it breaks...

Phone internet is too expensive.

[Tetsujin]

I can't believe people pay $1200 a year to watch internet over a tiny screen.

If it was a laptop or desktop MAYBE it would be worth that since a computer can be used for actual work, but not for a tiny phone.

I had data service on my Treo for the first year - I agree, the cost is more than it's worth, for me anyway.

I don't think the fact that it's on a "tiny" (not that tiny, really) phone is the issue - it's more like, what I was paying extra each month to have internet on my phone was roughly the same as what I pay each month to have the internet at home. It's a handy and fun feature (and even more handy and fun on a phone which isn't a four-years-old Treo) but it's hard to justify that kind of cost.

Re:Phone internet is too expensive.

[commodore64_love]

>>>hard to justify the cost

Precisely. I have dialup internet which I use when I'm traveling, which costs only $7 a month, but even that I have a hard time justifying because I rarely use it. In my humble opinion it's just silly to throw-away money.

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[Tauvix]

This is not correct. AT&T offers a data plan for Windows Mobile based smart phones that includes tethering. It's $65/month. I had it for a while when I needed on the road access for a few months.

Additionally, when provided a Windows Mobile based smart phones by my company that used either Verizon or Sprint, tethering was a usable option there as well.

Works for me

[digitizit]

I've upgraded to 3.1 and tethering still works on my iPhone. Wished the service was with Verizon. Maybe one day. Fact of the matter is there will ALWAYS be something about your carrier you don't like. AT&T has spotty coverage. Verizon has better. Verizon gimps their phones in a number of ways. I used to be able to tether through my Verizon Blackberry, but last time I tried that I got a web page saying I needed to buy another data plan. They all suck in different ways, it's ust a matter of finding the one that bothers you the least.

Re:Works for me

[navyjeff]

Somebody give this post some mod points. I've got the same success with the tethering situation. My 3G iphone still works fine and I upgraded to 3.1 over the weekend. Go here to get it enabled. I haven't tried running the enabler after upgrading, so it's possible that won't work. From what I've read, it seems to be the 3GS phones that are SOL.

That said, I might just get rid of it and go back to my old RAZR v3. I'm getting tired of jumping through hoops for functionality.

Borg Queen is hot

[Tetsujin]

Yeah, Palm REALLY needs to fire their advertising company.

Although, the blond girl is hot, in that "Borg Queen" sort of way. If you're into that sort of thing, of course.

Oh, man.... If I were a Soong-type android with an emotion chip in a movie that couldn't decide if it was supposed to be Star Wars, Aliens, or Wings of Honneamise, I would so hit that...

Re:Buy a Pre - YES

[plastick]

I love the hell out of my Palm Pre.

The guys at work with iPhones are thinking about ditching them for the Palm Pre.

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[Minimalist360]

Is a blackberry a smartphone?
AT&T:
BlackBerry Personal plus Tethering $60

How about a "PDA?"
AT&T:
PDA Personal plus Tethering3 $60.00

http://www.wireless.att.com/businesscenter/popup/dataconnect-comp-table.jsp
AT&T is just the first carrier I happened to look at. But I think they offer tethering for smartphones. Really expensive tetherting, but tethering.

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[TRRosen]

no you've been stealing service for three years now. read your contract its says tethering is not allowed plain and simple. just because you can do it does mean its OK.

Re:Buy a Pre - tethering not included

[j-turkey]

>

in the US, a Sprint Simply Everything plan (includes Unlimited data use) is around $1000.00 cheaper a year to have.

When will you idiots stop acting like tethering is allowed on any US carrier. SPRINT DOES NOT ALLOW TETHERING with smart-phones. Neither does any other us carrier. Sprints everything plan explicitly says tethering is not allowed.

Funny you should say that. My work smart-phone is an AT&T device, and it tethers to my laptop. Further, AT&T (a US carrier) allows tethering with smart phones.

You know, it's one thing to be wrong (which you clearly are). It's another to call people idiots (which isn't cool). But to be both wrong and call people idiots makes you look like...well you figure out what that makes you look like.

2.2.1 FTW

[AvenNYC]

This is why I'm still on 2.2.1 and refuse to upgrade my iPhone, PS3, Wii, etc until all these stupid issues have been sorted out. BTW i can tether with my jailbroken phone no problem. Who cares about their restrictions?

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[TRRosen]

I do stand corrected but really ...calling a WM phone a smartphone! (ok i'm just being mean) but seriously there is a reason WM phones don't sell.

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[TRRosen]

Sorry my mistake of course you have to pay $30 more and give up unlimited data.

Re:Buy a Pre - tethering not included

[TRRosen]

I stand correct on the ,$30 more for less data, tethering plans with att. however the post was targeted to those that think "unlimited data" means unlimited data or they can tether as neither are true.

Still waiting...

[Anonymous Coward]

... for T-Mobile to bring the G1 to the Madison, WI area.

I'm holding off on the iPhone, for exactly the reason discussed in this article.

Hurry T-Mobile.

Re:Still waiting...

[dwater]

You might want to consider trying out the Nokia N900. I expect they have one to try in the Chicago store - a short drive from where you are, I guess ;)

I don't know if they'll be offerred through carriers, or which carriers, but I think carriers are stupid if they don't consider selling the N900 with subsidies...of course, they do often tend to be a little 'counter-intuitive' from my viewpoint at least, especially in the US.

sliding down a slippery slope

[Locutus]

Apple is making big mistakes in their handling of the iPhone software. Years ago, Palm created a handheld computer which expanded at an incredible speed because Palm stayed neutral on both hardware accessories and software add-ons. Thousands of software applications sprung up which extended the device to all kinds of valuable uses and the same went for the hardware accessories. That changed over a short period of time as the company changed hands and keep changing the hardware and software platform and effectively removed the 3rd party ecosystem which made the device so widely used. There was help from Microsoft paying vendors to use their Windows CE based software but that's another story.

Now, we see Apple doing much of the same although not really changing to do it. Apple has always held their hardware and software close but on the desktop, they were open enough to allow other vendor's software to work in any way they deemed fit. But with the iPhone, they are showing how much control they insist on having and exerting to keep the device as a platform for Apple products and keep the device tied to Apple partners. As they keep showing this is an imprisoned device, the 3rd party software vendors may very well start looking for more open platforms. We've already seen that Microsoft is finally declaring WindowsCE/PocketPC a failure and plans to move to a Windows 7 base but you know that is not going to be viable for a number of years. Android looks like it has the potential to snap up any iPhone ISV's who are getting tired of the tight control of what gets accepted and what does not. After only one year and with the iPhone already hitting its stride, the marketshare numbers for Android still need to improve to make the jump easy. As long as Apple keeps sliding down this slimmy slope of dicatatorship on the device, they'll probably start losing one large feature of the device and that is 3rd party apps. IMO.

LoB

This is a surprise how?

[Sandbags]

I mean, come on, seriously. ANY time you;re doing something with an Apple device that's against the EULA or the provider's terms, Apple ALLWAYS turns off that function in the next release.

Further, you were TOLD WEEKS AGO that 3.1 broke the provider file hack and that only jailbroken devices and phones runnin 3.0.1 and older would be able to maintain tethering.

The hackers will win out and fix it soon enough, that is if AT&T doesn't start enabling it now anyway as they're doing with MMS.

Plus, adding tethering to an iPhone is $25 more per month, not $60 like it is on the crackberry or the Pre.

Re:This is a surprise how?

[natehoy]

Tethering on my crackberry cost $15 extra a month. Admittedly, I'm on a corporate plan, so that rate may not match up with what the rest of the world pays. I think the AT&T rep offered my wife tethering for an additional $30 a month (on top of the $30 data plan) when we bought her a crackberry, so that would TOTAL $60 a month, that's not an additional charge. The $60 includes the standard data plan at $30 plus tethering at an additional $30.

What's the monthly data plan for an iPhone (sans tethering?) If it's the same $30 as a CIS (Crackberry Information Services) plan, then if and when you ever get tethering, you'll save $5 a month. Which adds up, true, but it's nowhere near the difference you suggest.

Plus, umm, tethering is actually available on the Blackberry on the AT&T network. Today. No hacks, no cracks.

I've got nothing against the iPhone, it's a great phone and a super device, but comparing a complete charge for a service that exists against the upgrade charge for a service that does not currently exist is a little over the top.

Re:This is a surprise how?

[pavera]

AT&T hasn't announced pricing for the iphone tethering plan, where are you getting $25/mo? Further, you can't add tethering as there is NO IPHONE TETHERING PLAN. So until AT&T gets their crap together, US users are once again without any options or recourse. I can see launching this update once AT&T has an option to compensate, until then this is just plain EVIL. I have heard rumors that the tethering alone could be as much as $60/mo (on top of the $30/mo data plan for the phone).

Anyway, I agree though that this isn't surprising, just more apple + at&t being evil, which is something anyone who has dealt with either company for more than a week should totally expect. Just bend over and take it.

Re:This is a surprise how?

[Sandbags]

Crackberry data plans are $30 extra, if you already have the data plan, but it's capped, LOW. $60 is the unlimited tethering plan. This is what I was told recently by Verizon before I got a new iPhone 3GS from AT&T.

Sans tethering the iPhone plan is $30. With it it's reportedly $55, but there's a lot of speculation it will be lower...

I know tethering is available on AT&T, just not the iPhone. That's not the point, its the price.

I only bought an iPhone 2G at the time (which was when it was still a $400 device), because over a 2 year plan, it was cheaper than either Win Mobile or Blackberry, regardless of the carrier. (and if I wanted GPS, that was EXTRA). I bought a 3GS recently to replace my original iPhone and again, given I don't use unlimited minutes, the iPhone was still the cheapest over 2 years for my uses, and even cheaper once tethering was included (which I'm still on the fence if I'll activate since WiFi is prevalent here, and I rarely do anything with a PC outside of a coffee shop, McDonalds, office, or home).

btw, the BIS plans are $40 here, not 30. Must be a local market thing... basic tethering (5GB cap) is another $30, making the data plans $70.

Re:This is a surprise how?

[Sandbags]

They have not announced formal pricing, but a top level AT&T exec assured us it was not $55 "extra" for tethering, and that the total of the data plan and tethering combined would be "far less," and though an exact price would not be commented on he suggested it mioght even be lower than $55 total.

Current rumors are a $10-15 additional monthly charge, based on iPhone plans in Australia, Finland, and France which will all be that low (and free in Austria). Also, Verizon is apparently poised to offer a $14 a month limited tether plan (likely below 5GB cap).

Since 3.1 offers tethering data figures seperate from 3G data figures, its possible AT&T could offer a tiered option, where $10 gets a capped plan, and $25 ($55 total) gets unlimited, and that could be the source of the leaked figure

Re:This is a surprise how?

[pavera]

Any idea on when this might actually come to pass? I know I shouldn't be using tethering, but when the only other option is to pay $60/mo for a separate USB key and I use it very rarely. I maybe use tethering 2-3 times/mo for maybe 10-15 minutes at a time. Obviously $60/mo isn't worth that tiny amount of usage.

(I only use tethering when I'm on call and not at home, and a support request comes in... the intersection of those 3 events is pretty small). Anyway, if it is only an additional $25 that would be great, but when it isn't even an option at any price it is pretty annoying that they turned it off early. I could perfectly understand releasing this software the day AT&T releases a supported tethering plan, or a week or 2 before even. But when the at&t tethering plan is still only rumored, and, probably won't be available for many months (My guess is next summer after they complete all the 3G upgrades they've announced), well... that is really unacceptable. The only reason I broke down and bought an iphone was because it offered tethering, otherwise I would have gone with another blackberry and verizon.

Re:This is a surprise how?

[natehoy]

Hmm, interesting on the differing prices. I knew the data plan got limited when you added tethering, but I had no idea an unlimited data plan was even available. I appreciate that information.

>>>(and if I wanted GPS, that was EXTRA)

!@$@#$ tell me about it. That's the primary reason I chose AT&T for my Crackberry - I get to use my GPS for any application I damned well please and I don't have to pay the TeleNav tithe to do it. Verizon locked down the GPS and even if you pay the TeleNav tithe you can only use it with a limited list of apps.

Otherwise, I probably would have chosen Verizon, since they have marginally better coverage here (Maine).

Re:This is a surprise how?

[Sandbags]

Both tethering and MMS were promies "late summer" I'd expect it to follow shortly, as soon as their systems are updated to handle how to collect tethering usage vs regular data use from the iPhone,

Hmm Well then

[Anonymous Coward]

BWAAHAHAHAHA, apple loving fools, get a real phone.

Windows Mobile does it natively

[Inominate]

WM6 comes with a built in internet sharing app, it's just hidden in the windows folder on the phone. No home-brew anything needed. WM can also, with some hacking or the purchase of a seperate app(wmwifirouter), be used as a mobile wifi hotspot.

Re:Windows Mobile does it natively

[TheRaven64]

It took me a while to work out what tethering meant the first time it was mentioned in an iPhone article. My last four phones (two Sony Ericsson, two Nokia) have not had any settings or applications for tethering. They all just implement the Bluetooth dial-up networking profile and look like a modem to any computer supporting bluetooth. This was quite slow on the first two, which only supported GPRS (2-second pings, 5KB/s maximum throughput) but on the newer ones with UMTS it's quite usable (200ms pings, 50KB/s throughput).

Umm....

[King_TJ]

I agree with you, except I don't see how the iPhone is a good example.

When you buy an iPhone, there is nothing on the box or in the advertising anyplace guaranteeing it will run specific 3rd. party applications like Google Voice. All you're told is that you can pick from many thousands of apps available via the "App Store", and indeed, this is the case.

There was never anything saying that tethering was available for my iPhone on AT&T's network either. All that was said is that it was coming eventually, whenever AT&T deemed it ready. Nothing has really changed in those regards. People just seem to be mad because Apple disabled or removed code that made tethering possible from a technical standpoint on AT&T's network, despite it never having been legally "ready" for use in the first place.

So where is this "expected functionality" that was "yanked out from under us"? I just don't see it, unless you define people's assumptions without doing research first as valid expectations the manufacturer needs to meet in all cases?

Re:Umm....

[erroneus]

The functionality "yanked out from under us" is, as the discussion states, removed with the installation of an updated firmware and cannot be rolled back. People were using a feature and often times even depended on that feature.

If this happened in other areas such as the proverbial car comparison it wouldn't be tolerated. For example, if all Ford owners received a letter saying "there is a new updated part for your car. Just come in and get it!" And when they get it, they also find several parts of their car and their air conditioner no longer works.

We can't have vendors coming in and changing the deal on us when they feel the desire or pressure from "external forces" to do so. Sure, add new things... fix problems... that's all good. But when you start taking things away? That's a problem.

Doesn't make sense

[Pascal Sartoretti]

This doesn't make sense. If my data plan includes XYZ MB per month (or XYZ $ per MB), why do they care whether I use it from my iPhone or from my latpop ?

In fact, Apple and the carriers should even *promote* tethering, as a way to quickly eat your monthly data allowance, and pay extra for additional MB.

Re:Doesn't make sense

[No2Gates]

What really doesn't make sense is that they don't allow you to downgrade. I upgraded to 3.1, now the damn thing locks up from 1 to 3 times a day. I have to do a hard reset to bring it back to life. Apple really screwed up on this update.
I won't even mention the problems with voicemail for some people....

Re:Doesn't make sense

[multipartmixed]

I have to agree.

I frequently remove the SIM chip from my iPhone and stick it into an Air Card (PCMCIA gizmo with an antenna).

It would be nice if I didn't have to do that.

Re:Doesn't make sense

[Mhtsos]

The reason is, on a PC you use up more bandwidth: you play MMOs , download movies, use p2p. So while you pay for 5g of data, you only use a fraction of it on the iphone and that's big money to them.

Plan: Make an app thet eats up all your allowed bandwidth (you input it) at the end of the month (it can add a calendar entry to remind you to run it that day) just by sending random data to places. We can set it up to find a legal torrent, store random chunks of it and then serve them. Open up as many connections as it can too and put the pinch on the ciscos at the other end. That way, you tethering prohibition ceases to be of an advantage to the carrier. If enough people use it.. Though I think it wins the "most likely to be blocked by AppStore" award.

There has never been tethering

[Rix]

And your chocolate ration has been raised from 50 grams to 20 grams.

Re:There has never been tethering

[commodore64_love]

Sounds like the previous administration - "We have lowered Americans' taxes from 1 trillion to 1.1 trillion." Say what? "Well you see if you adjust for inflation 1 trillion last year is actually 1.3 trillion in today's dollars, but we're only charging $1.1 trillion so you see your taxes dropped."

Uh huh.

Yep.

Sure.

No, it doesn't.

[HarukiShinju]

I had a mobileconfig downloaded from a website that enabled tethering on my iPhone 3GS on 3.0, and after upgrading to 3.1 it still works. What's the story?

Re:No, it doesn't.

[glyneth]

Are you on AT&T? Are you in the US? Which site did you download the mobileconfig from? Are you on a 3G or 3Gs?

I'm on AT&T, in the US, downloaded the mobileconfig from benm.at, and I'm on a 3Gs, and my tethering went away when I upgraded to 3.1.

Re:No, it doesn't.

[HarukiShinju]

Same as you. I'm on AT&T, downloaded from help.benm.at, with a 3GS, and it still works perfectly.

Re:No, it doesn't.

[jole]

The story is about factory unlocked iPhones with operators that are not Apple partners.

Stealing service?

[phorm]

Tethered or no, the phone is still subject to the service and/or bandwidth limitations imposed by your carrier/plan/contract. I have a 1GB/mo data plan and if I were to blow past that because I tethered, I'll be the one footing the bill.

I haven't tried though, since I don't have much use for tethering, but how I use my data should not be for Apple to decide if I happen to be on an "unapproved" provider.

Re:Stealing service?

[Anonymous Coward]

But you're going to degrade service quality for everyone else! AT&T can't be bothered to upgrade all its towers!

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[interval1066]

Sorry to burst your bursting of my bubble but YES ONE DOES. ONE that I KNOW OF- SPRINT. ONE. MIGHT EVEN BE MORE, BUT ONE THAT I KNOW OF. Get your FACTS STRAIT before making stupid ASSERTIONS.

And, no voicemail too as an added bonus

[elliott666]

Since the upgrade I've had no voicemail too! Awesome. I did get a $20 credit from AT&T on my bill but it's still not working. They say Oregon and Washington are having problems and have since Thursday 9/10/9 and they're not going to have it fixed until Wednesday. That's 1 week of no voicemail for a sizable chunk of users. Nice.

I'd like to suggest

[roc97007]

Something you might want to think about: The iPod Touch with the latest firmware can fake most of what the iphone will do, without the phone part. It still has the cool Apple form factor and interface, and from medium distance nobody will know it's not the Jesus Phone.

Then, go get a good inexpensive phone that supports tethering with a carrier that doesn't jerk you around too much.

If you don't want to be seen using a non-Jesus phone, get a bluetooth earpiece and stuff the phone in an inside pocket in your stylish Macbook backpack. Nobody has to know.

Even better, if you get bluetooth tethering working with your macbook, you can attach your iPod Touch and pretend you're tethering through an iPhone, with the real work done by the Nokia in your backpack. It's brilliant. Style and functionality at the same time!

Look at T-Mobile on iPhone, vs TracFone / Net10

[electrogeist]

You should look at T-Mobile's prepaid versus TracFone. For very light use it costs under $10 per month. Get a $100 prepaid card which gives 1 year of service and 1000 minutes @ 10 cents per minute. Actually it is <10 cents per minute because by spending $100 they give you a 15% bonus. Texting costs 5 cents to receive and 10 cents to send, not as cheap as I'd like, and now having a full keyboard I find myself texting a lot more. I have no data plan, I use free wifi only. For navigation, caching google maps didn't work as well as I'd hoped (many levels of zoom, maybe theres a better caching app) but there are navigation apps that store the whole US/Canada locally on the phone. To get a T-Mobile SIM card I bought a T-Mobile Nokia 1661 for $18 at Target, which also comes with $30 of airtime. I stuck the SIM in my newly aquired iPhone 3GS after jailbreaking and unlocking it. For those of you wondering why such a cheapskate has a 3GS.... My iPhone 3GS itself was a lucky find for the cost of an iPod, checking craigslists in small towns can pay off ;)

TracFone, and their sister company Net10, have horrible customer service. If you can even get through. I couldn't, after trying several times and holding for up to 2.5 hours before giving up. A couple years ago these companies appeared to be the best deal to me. Rates are somewhat comparable with T-Mobile prepaid with pros and cons: there is a little higher monthly minimum, texting is a little cheaper (especially with Tracfone), and there are no roaming charges anywhere in the US to worry about with Net10. But you'll have to use the crappy phone that comes with the plan, even if it is a GSM phone using AT&T in your area, the SIM is somehow locked to that specific phone. They lock the USB so it can only be used for charging, you can't even upload your address book. (Guess what I was too lazy to write down before I lost my old phone?) For TracFone/net10 phones with a crappy web browser, they are locked to only work with their site, at an expensive rate. Just opening the browser costs you money...and with some of their phones having an internet hotkey you will probably find yourself opening it accidentally.

I may be interested in alternative GSM carriers in the future, especially those offering an inexpensive prepaid data plan. GSM carriers are few in the US, only AT&T, T-Mobile, and a small handful of companies who resell their services. AFAICT T-Mobile's 3G service will never work on the iPhone because it is on a different frequency, limiting iPhones to EDGE speeds with T-Mobile. I originally considered that popular T-Mobile "sidekick" unlimited data/txt plan until T-Mobile closed ports 80/443 last month (just when I got the iPhone). Creating a VPN as a workaround didn't sound like a bad idea, but read there may be complications switching back and forth to wifi, it started sounding like a PITA, and I didn't really want to spend the extra $ now for data anyways.

Next I need to apply for a Google Voice account, pay the few bucks to get a more memorable master phone #, and start using VOIP when on WIFI.

WE ARE JOBS !! YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Assimilated and you will fucking like it, too !! Now bend over, FANBOI !! WE HAVE GOT SOME ASSIMILIATING TO DO !!

Re:Apple. It just...works?

[itsdapead]

I must say that having developed for Android and iPhone, iPhone was much more enjoyable of an experience.

And as a user of both an iPod Touch and an Android phone - it shows. Android is good, but the Touch is more coherent and logical (although the larger screen helps, too).

Your next challenge with Android development will be coping with different phones, as each manufacture makes their own customisations (as with the HTC Hero and the new Motorola). E.g. none of the terminal/ssh apps I tried worked proerly with the Hero's soft keyboard.

That's the dilemma between open and proprietary systems.

Re:Apple. It just...works?

[Chas]

Not Microsoft's!

I'll stick with Open Office TYVM!

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[TRRosen]

OK Was wrong but so are you as Spint it the one that doesn't have a tethering plan for smartphones. AT&T have overpriced plans for blackberry and WM that take away your unlimited data.

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[bipbop]

You're right, but Sprint does have a tethering plan. I have it, actually. It's called "Phone as Modem", and you can get it added to any plan. Of course, you can tether anyway, but you're not supposed to unless you pay for the plan.

Real World Experience

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a personal iPhone 3GS. It has great games and things that are a blast while I have to travel. My music collection is nice to have with me. I like the touchscreen being very usable, responsive, and intuitive, and with one executable, I loaded Cydia, so I have access to all kinds of free apps, and I get no variety of intereference on this from Apple or AT&T.

I also have a blackberry 8830. It is for work. I get my corporate email and calendar on it, and it functions well for this purpose. It's not very entertaining, and putting music on it is somewhat painful, and there's the limited number of headphones that can be used without an adapter, but it does tether and my work pays for unlimited data usage, which I realize is not really "unlimited" in the "free as in beer" way, but it does what I need when I need it.

Am I an iPhone snob? Not really. I just like it because it's fun, has a lot of great features, it's easy to modify if I want something that doesn't come with it normally, and the games are actually entertaining in terms of graphics and gameplay. I love my blackberry 8830 as well because it does thing the iPhone doesn't.

I keep hearing how the Palm Pre is a nice phone. I am in I.T. and I have had a number of people order the Palm Pre because they have the option to do so, and it's my job to set it up on the corporate network to get email and do the calendar and such. I do not like the device. The touchscreen doesn't function as well or as quickly as the iPhone, the gestures are not intuitive to the average clampitt that buys one, and I've had far more calls for "it's not working properly" than I have had with the blackberry or the iPhone.

Bottom Line: Do I pay more for my iPhone? Yes. Gladly. Do I think that makes me better than someone else? No, it just means I'm willing to pay for something that does what I want it to do. The data plan costs more, the texting plan costs more, the phone itself is a little more than an average phone, but it's worth it right now. Until someone else can actually compete, with their own app store, music store, and a touch screen that doesn't suck, I will keep my iPhone, "permitted" tethering or not. And for those of you who don't already know this, there are more options for tethering the iPhone than the "sanctioned and approved" methods. Don't say that Nokia also has apps and music available in their store, because I'm fortunate enough to live in the good ole USA where the carriers can put a stop to such nonsense and lock us into only a few options, instead of allowing for such innovations. Am I moving to some less fortunate country so I can use the options? No. So give me my iPhone and if you call me an iSnob for it, then I will just have to assume it's because you can't afford one and I'm better than you.

Buy an Android phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like the Pre is a better deal all around.

Android's got several options for both wifi and bluetooth tethering.

I would rather have any Android phone than a Pre.

Re:Buy a Pre tether not included

[TRRosen]

sorry but tethering is not included on the everything plan. That will cost you another $50 a month and lose of your unlimited data usage.

WebOS phones are Open Source OS phones, so the Tether capability can't be disabled as it's based on Open functionality, not a closed API.

Oh grasshopper you have so much to learn... anything can be blocked...or they may just add the cost of tethering to every android plan. I have little doubt the carriers will soon require android phones to us a signed config file the same as the iPhone.

Re:Apple. It just...works?

[_Sprocket_]

I was thinking more along the lines of what "works" for the carriers may not be what "works" for the end user. Once again - "customers" are not always end users.

please enlighten me - what _is_ tethering? :)

[darkeye]

good to know for the un-initiated :)

Re:please enlighten me - what _is_ tethering? :)

[Yosho]

"Tethering" is the practice of using your mobile phone's internet connection with your laptop or desktop PC, usually by "tethering" the two of them together with a USB cable. (but Bluetooth is also common)

Unlimited is not.

[Tetsujin]

Naturally a strict dictionary definition of unlimited would defy the laws of physics. There is only but so much bandwidth available to a single handheld device in a given time period.

No reasonable consumer expects that "Unlimited" means infinity in this context. If you were offered a cellphone with "unlimited minutes" for one whole day, would you expect to be able to use more than 1440 minutes? Certainly not, because you are not an idiot and know that there are only 1440 minutes in a day.

OK, sure. We all know how many minutes there are in a day... But how many gigabytes are in a month?

5GB/month is a reasonable amount of data per month for most people given the current bandwidth of the device. Assuming you got half (ha!) the bandwidth a 3G network is supposed to provide (2Mbit/s, so half would be 1Mbit/s or possibly as much as 500kbyte/s, you'd be talking about a half an hour per day of solid usage (like downloading).

Since most people probably just use the phone's internet for web and e-mail, these people will get along just fine with 5GB per month. But that is not an unlimited connection in the strict literal sense or in a practical sense. Certainly not close enough to a practical sense to warrant comparison with a "1440 minutes per day" limit...

That said, I don't know if the limit is still 5GB per month. <shrug>

Re:Unlimited is not.

[Slashdot Parent]

OK, sure. We all know how many minutes there are in a day... But how many gigabytes are in a month?

5GB/month is a reasonable amount of data per month for most people given the current bandwidth of the device. Assuming you got half (ha!) the bandwidth a 3G network is supposed to provide (2Mbit/s, so half would be 1Mbit/s or possibly as much as 500kbyte/s, you'd be talking about a half an hour per day of solid usage (like downloading).

Anecdotally, I can say that many people in the forums use their Palm Pres to listen to a LOT of Pandora radio, and they have not once been harassed by Sprint, despite going way over their 5GB "limit". Obviously Sprint would be within their TOS to put the kibosh on that, but so far, nobody has heard a peep out of Sprint.

Personally, I use my Palm Pre for tethering and my wife watches Hulu streams over the EvDO connection. This usage runs completely contrary to the TOS that I agreed to (the tethering bit), but again, I have not heard a word from Sprint about this blatantly unauthorized usage.

The working definition of "unlimited" that I've always used in this context is, "as long as you are using the service in remotely the way you agreed you would use it, the service provider won't give you any flak." If, on the other hand, I decided to saturate my connection 24/7 with bittorrent swarms, I would expect to have my service terminated.

Android

[Anonymous Coward]

While adroid has some issues, after a fairly easy root, you can upgrade to some very cool features, its not as hard as it seems, cyanogenmod.com
I've been using this after JF and TheDude both gave up on updating, my phone is seriously a small linux box with commandline, ssh, tethering, camcorder,
picture, ability for any java or c app, its all in how you want your phone. Bypassing the internal memory to put apps on an sd card, the BFS kernel
its amazing.

Outrage from European perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

If Apple is not going to revert its act set up to support specific carriers, I see it inevitable that it's going to see the wrath of European Commission and other European market-regulating bodies - that, believe or not, actually care about consumers' rights. Steve and his company are so wrong if they assume that they can abuse their European customers in the accustomed ways of the telecom banana republic across the pond...

Of course, Apple places its bets on the square where it takes at least half an year for the bureaucratic bodies react.

There's one clever backdoor to get out of the trouble, though: many devices lacked tethering in their original software versions. Thus, incremental deployment of features starting from minimal set is actually pretty good way to fuck up the unloyal customers... you don't get punished. Still, I have to wonder why Apple wants to be such a darling for exclusive operators, when exclusive operators are usually the worst enemy of consumers' rights.

Thanks for the iCorrection

[davidwr]

You have my iGratitude.

they actually killed tethering in 3.0.1

[suteny0r]

"3.0.1 ONLY fixes the SMS vulnerability... nothing else" Isn't that what we were all told?

I noticed that the tethering functionality enabled by the profile from http://help.benm.at/tethering.php stopped working after my upgrade to 3.0.1

The use of this profile works on even an un-jailbroken phone.

They did it in a rather sneaky way. The UI for tethering is still there, and active. It even says 'tethered', when plugged in â" but the update causes the iPhone to ignore DHCP requests for an IP address from the external device, which then times out.

The problem was immediately resolved by revving back to the 3.0 firmware.

I tested both jailbroken and un-jailbroken, on both 3.0 and 3.0.1.

3.0 tethering works, jailbreak or not, 3.0.1 tethering does NOT work, jailbreak or not.

Shame on you Apple. If you're going to intentionally break functionality, at least be man enough not to lie about it.

Tethering is not always disabled in a 3.1 upgrade

[ArcCoyote]

Apparently, if you had enabled tethering via a modified AT&T .ipcc before you upgraded to 3.1, you'll get to keep it. You can even wipe the phone and restore a backup, and you'll get tethering back.

Not so with Mobileconfig profiles. Those get wiped out. If you ever do a restore and set up "as a new iPhone", you'll lose tethering and the 3.0 methods won't work to re-enable it, unless you reinstall a backup that has tethering enabled.

So there's some other setting at work...

3.0 w/ .ipcc hack, upgraded to 3.1, lost MMS (for now), tethering works. Reapplying the .ipcc re-enables MMS.
3.0 w/ .mobileconfig to 3.1, lose MMS and tethering. Reinstalling the .mobileconfig gets you MMS, but no tethering
3.1 clean: .ipcc hack or .mobileconfig can enable MMS, does not enable tethering

now .ipcc files are still just .zip with plists in them... makes me think there IS a way to enable tethering, there's just some additional setting required in the .ipcc

Futbal

[masmullin]

Re: Cutler - It would help if he had some compitent WR
Re: Farve - who cares how he looked... all that matters is the W.

Re:Apple. It just...works?

[dwater]

...or, soon, Maemo (Nokia N900) or even Symbian these days is open source, depending on your definition...

Maemo should allow you to tinker as much as you like :

http://maemo.nokia.com/

Why do I love it?

[Anonymous Coward]

We have a proxy server at work that blocks a lot of sites.

Solution: Tether iPhone and remap internet traffic

route delete 0.0.0.0
route add 0.0.0.0 MASK 0.0.0.0 YOURIPHONEIP

Guess I won't be upgrading to 3.1 any time soon.

Re:AAPL should be forced to forefeit the iPhone na

[dwater]

Do Apple own the iPhone trademark? I thought it was a Cisco trademark since they made the first iphones. ...or was is spelled different(ly) or something?

I stand corrected

[Xaedalus]

Well, here's to T-Mobile figuring out a way to offer 4G??? Or at least an iPhone-compatible 3G network?

Touche!

[Xaedalus]

I'll heartily concede your point. I know you can do a lot more with your phone than I can with me. Mine just meets my requirements and needs.

Re: Luxury price tags

[CrankinOut]

Luxury price tags are but one indicator of a product's value. Why do people buy BMW's, Lexuses, Infinitis, and Acuras when, for far less money, they could buy a Ford, Saturn, or Honda? All of these have the same functionality and meet the standards for personal transportation. They vary in that "luxury" implies, perhaps opportunity for the privilege of snobbery, but also a better ownership experience. I am not a fan of of any company because of its label, but I surely do appreciate not having to do extensive maintenance and support and to buy lots of different applications to do what I need or want to do.

Reverse snobbery is just as silly as brand affection.

iSurprised

[SimonInOz]

So there ...

Another example

[Anonymous Coward]

Just another example of how M$ forces you to use it's products!

Oh wait....

Pretty Ballsy

[Anonymous Coward]

IANAL but I suspect this may possibly but not for sure in my opinion be collusion (is that enough vagueness to not get sued for libel?). Didn't Congress or FTC just invite AT&T and Apple to explain their market positioning or see if the exclusive agreements were anti-competitive. I see the US FED getting involved. posting anon. for obvious reasons like it matters after that model's case

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[PrimaryConsult]

Eh? I always tell Sprint CSRs and sales agents that I do this whenever I get asked if I want to upgrade (my contract has long since ended). They say that it is grandfathered in or something to that effect, so it is a strong disincentive for me against upgrading the phone or getting a new contract. It works completely out of the box, even after a hard reset, using the "Phone as Modem" app right on the "Programs" menu, and was a selling point for me when getting the phone in the first place (they did not have dedicated tethering plans at the time).

Apparently now that there are dedicated tethering plans, it is no longer free, but that does not change my particular setup. I do not appreciate being called a thief by someone who knows nothing of the situation. It would do well for you to correct your attitude when you do not know all of the facts.

Re:Let me be the first to say - you lie

[TRRosen]

so you have a three year old contract..??? nothing like tethering on 2G. You lucky sprint is so desperate (and that your probably over paying like crazy) or they would force you out. Surprised they just don't change it without asking as sprint often does.

Re:Look at T-Mobile on iPhone, vs TracFone / Net10

[CmdrPorno]

I'm active on Howardforums and I've heard of the service issues with Tracfone...

Tmobile has even worse coverage than AT&T in my area, and it appears that they are no longer sharing towers. I don't mind using AT&T's service, just not at $70 per month.

Not a fanboi???

[Anonymous Coward]

>> I'm no Apple fanboi...

You should have stopped there. What followed after that was nothing but fapping over apple.

No surprise there

[phlegmboy]

Jobsientology doesn't give a flying fuck about their iPhone end customers. The only ones they care about are the ones lining their pockets year on end through the "exclusivity" scam. Buying an iPhone is the equivalent of handing Jobsientology a signed blank check and a signed document reading "I hearby agree to bend over, spread my ass cheeks as wide asd possible and consent to Apple jamming ever larger and ever rougher objects up my ass and I will scream "Thank You Oh High And Mighty Saviour Steven Jobs" each time until my throat is hoarse".

Re: Luxury price tags

[AnalPerfume]

Everyones user experience if different in any product or service. The higher the price, the better people expect the user experience to be. If theirs matches their expectations, they perceive it as value for money. In many products that means a good set of defaults, and a workflow you're happy with. The downside is often more expensive parts or labor when things do need tended to, on a closed system which protects the manufacturers revenue stream over your choices to do things on something you bought....ie you paid money for an ownership (supposedly) changed hands. It's a trade off that some are happy with, while others are not. Often it'll be a case by case basis too.

For me Apple gadgets (apart from being closed platforms with crazy people in charge of approving apps) are now EVERYWHERE. They've become the gadget of choice for everyone, there's no "exclusivity" left with them. Apple (like other luxury brands) have a LOT of value in the fact that only a small percentage of people can buy them, you pay the extra to attach yourself to that social clique. When you see everyone from grannies, to chavs, kids to business-people all with iPods, do you want to be thought of as just another sheep going with the crowd and unable to choose anything other than what the media tell you is the "hot" thing today? Think what happened to the Burbury brand when it became the brand of choice for hooligans.

When you buy a gadget nobody knows why you've chosen that one, just like politicians don't know which issues made you vote for them, or not vote for them. They don't know if you are tech literate and have chosen the iPod because it suits your needs better than anything else. All that counts in the vote, or the lil white earbuds. How many people are desperate to fit in and will buy the "hot" gadgets without really understanding what they're buying and how it compares to the competition? In short, there's no "look at my cool new gadget" with Apple anymore, where a non-Apple device can still do that, not to mention it's often cheaper for better spec......oh and not controlled by Apple's insane policies over what you can or can't do with YOUR device.

So, brand snobbery? Maybe, I wouldn't be seen dead with an Apple gadget for several reasons, only one of which is that I don't want to be wrongly perceived as a sheep. We all have choices, so each to their own.

root is that easy, huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

So all I have to do is find a contractor who will build a special addition on my house, mix up the furniture in the addition, go into that new room, and VOILA, there's the front door of my house?

Fuckin' brilliant, man. Glad it was that easy.

Personally

[kixome]

I hope someone, someday, nails the shit out of crapple or cripple whichever you prefer. Everyone wants to ride microsoft for being non-competitive, when it should be permitted to include only it's browser by default. Apple does this with their crappy safari, but since truly intellectual users don't use apple no one notices(cares). Apple is the epitome of a monopoly. Their software is tied to their hardware (which is now no different than any other PC), yet no real user cares because real users dont like dumbed down interfaces. Sure even I can be impressed by eyecandy, but after ten minutes I turn compiz off because it eats resources. Their phone is no better than a blackberry. I have used both and I don't see touch screens as being that cool anyway. i wish blackberry had never made one, because now they look like apple wanna-be's . In closing I would like to say that it is funny that you spent $700-1000 dollars more for your computer than most people do for their winnux PC, while you have no more funcionality than a windows 98 machine. P.S. I hate windows too, so I chose to learn, i.e. linux. I bought my winnux PC for $160 and it still has plenty of power to do anything yours can.---Kixome

You mean ...

[twoHats]

Gosh, I guess we have to accept that Apple is not that different from M$. Wolf in sheep's clothing...

Re: an iphone/palm pre user weighing in

[b1gp0pp4]

Hail /., I went and bought a Palm Pre last month, my 30 day trial is coming up, and sadly, I am taking it back. It had a great browser that rivaled iphone's Safari. I've got a 3G and I'm sticking with it, but I've been looking for a way out for months, actually ever since the novelty of jailbreaking wore off. Jailbreaking became a necessity for me to use the phone efficiently. The bluetooth problem above is elegantly solved by SBSettings, an app in Cydia. You swipe over the clock and gain access to all battery-wasting settings, without quitting the app you're using. It also has a "quick notes" and "quick calc" feature that is perfect for when I'm doing online banking in Safari and need to make a quick calculation. Or need to store some data. Anyway, the Palm Pre is going back because Sprint's network is intolerable. It rarely worked inside, and if it did it was very low signal. The phone suffered and couldn't do many of its out-of-the-box features because so much of it is cloud/online/web based. I really wanted to support it, but being with Sprint for two years would be awful. I dislike AT&T very much because of their disregard for current customers. They're always trying to woo new ones. An area of Florida (Panama City) got a 3G tower LAST MONTH. They were 2G/Edge for the last, well, forever. The extra charges for navigation, outrageous text messaging packages (I've tried boycotting text messages, the normies and technophobes can't cope), the Fees passed on to me that are taxes and IMHO a cost of doing business, add to that the taxes I am required to pay in addition to their taxes (I'm considering sending a bill to AT&T for a "Customer State and Local Service Fee" to recover the costs of being their customer), the lack of 1 year contract agreements any more, and a host of other things really makes my blood boil with AT&T. I also just added a line to my account and the rep at the store didn't have the option of adding the line with my own equipment, he only had the option to add a 2 year agreement. He said he'd email his manager and hopefully they do this. I've got written confirmation so I don't want to hear from naysayers. If they don't, it's just one more thing. But where to go? I am anything but an Apple Fanboy. I fucking hate Apple, Steve Jobs, and wish that he had a better reason to withhold standard features (bluetooth stereo took nearly 3 years, with the 3.0 update--and guess what, my iphone 2G can do it!), copy and paste, video, third party apps, etc.) than "to protect future sales of our products" That's the ugly side of capitalism. I'm praying that the Nokia N900 will be released in the U.S. and that I can find an acceptable plan. The shitty thing about subsidizing phones (cause we Americans want our shit cheap or free!) is that it gets you to a certain price point month to month. There is much less of an advantage to buying a phone full price in the U.S. because the monthly plans are priced to recover costs of the subsidized phones. When your contract is over, you'll still be paying nearly $90 a month for the iphone plans, not to mention being called a dweeb by fanboys because of a subtle design nuance and an upgraded flash memory packaged as "iPhone 6! Better than Sex!" Let me say in closing that jailbreaking solves a lot of issues, I've got tethering, video, SBSettings, and all sorts of cool shit FIRST and possibly exclusively. It's EASY and worth the short amount of time it takes.