I've been using SuSE and YaST since version 6.2 (1999 or there about) and although it also uses rpm, it also does exactly all the things you list AFAIK. I haven't ran into a problem yet, but have mainly used.rpm's provided by SuSE, maybe a handfull others.
It's the reason I keep buying their CD's/DVD's every now and then (6.2, 7.1, 8.1, 9.1). Esp. before I had DSL, ftp was just to much of a hassle, if nearly everything can be bought on 2 DVD's at the shop around the corner.
In either case whatever you are comparing, have you tried running Windows XP on a 266 Mhz, 2GB HD, 32 MB RAM box?
As a matter of fact I did (well 64Mb RAM) and it didn't run as expected. Windows 2000, 95, 95OSR2, 98, 98SE, ME, NTSP5, NTSP6a work fine. IT used to be my previous employers install-test box (sometimes Norton Ghosted 6+ times an hour). Funny you'd mention it, as it was a 266Mhx, 2Gb HD, 64Mb RAM HP Brio IIRC.
I don't know if they are available where you live but Vredestein Perfect (MAX) http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300006034 wor k very well for me. I've used these one's too: http://www.dutch-perfect.nl/ never tried the Schwalbe Marathon's or http://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/technology.cfm K-shield
Wow, and I thought the Commodore brand and Tulip both didn't exist anymore since Escom AG and later it's Dutch renamed-to-Commodore daughter company went belly up in like 1997 or so.
Tulip used to be omnipresent in the Netherlands, but I don't see it anymore.
if(Num_Crew_Changes > (MAXINT - MAXINT/10)) {//If we exceed MAXINT the behaviour of this counter is outside spec.
if(Num_Crew_Changes >= (MAXINT-2))
{//We might exceed MAXINT this is outside spec.
Logbook->WriteError(Error_Large_Number_Of_Crew_Cha nges);
Error(Error_Large_Number_Of_Crew_Changes);
}
else//Too warn users that we are approaching limits
Logbook->WriteWarning(Warning_Large_Number_Of_Crew _Changes); }
Maybe you're only looking at the caldera's? I'm also not sure how interpret the pictures, but they seem to make more sense to me if the circular features shown are actually the caldera's. Maybe it's only your mind playing tricks with the way you interpret the shadows. People tend to interpret a 2D picture as if the light came from above. See if they make more sense to you after rotating 180 degrees.
Well, our Dutch minister Brinkhorst unfortunately still hasn't changed his vote, although our own parlaiment has voted against software patents. I did send an e-mail last spring to his party's office that his behaviour on this subject was a mayor reason for me to no vote on his party in the last european elections. According to himself he's just afraid to lose face by changing his vote. But I think there's more to it. Any dutchies reading this, please let then know they are loosing votes over this issue. http://www.d66.nl/contact
To all the people in this thread that are not familiar with WordPerfect past version 5.1/6.0, I have a few points to make:
- I am in no way affiliated to WP or Corel. - I did just buy WP 12 yesterday. - For a good comparison between Word and WordPerfect you can visit: http://www.wpvsword.com - In the Netherlands there is a version for education/non-profit at 39.95 euro, http://www.schoolbox.nl/sb_wp_office_12.html(no support), I have the impression the student and teacher edition is the cheapest at 89 dollar elsewhere (but does include support and with 20 dollar rebate).
- Despite that I got Word 2004 bundled with my laptop I find WP so much supperior that I bought it. - My dad using WP 6.0 for DOS on his old 486 can still open documents I saved in the latest versions. - I think WP lost because in the MS bundle Word+Excel+PowerPoint+Windows is a lot more usability with only a Word being inferior, but Excel, PowerPoint and Windows superior to the competing products Quatro Pro, Presentations and NovellDOS. MS trying to kill WP didn't help, but the main problem is that MS will ship the complete bundle, like on my laptop, hiding it's cost and making WP "more expensive" no matter what the price is. Only free software can try compete with MS because of their monopoly, but users still need to download it as an extra hurdle. OEM's just can't ship with Firefox, WP, OO.org, etc. - Some specific reasons I use WP: Good export to HTML and PDF, vastly superior equation editor (LateX like, now called the old style editor, because there is a MS like one too), more advanced DTP options (print as book, folding scheme's), CONSISTENT PREDICTABLE behaviour, reveal codes/underwater screen, much more advanced numbering/referencing/caption options for equations/graphs/references/lines/paragraphs, sub -documents (chapter 12&3 and 4,5&6 in different documents, but continuing page/graph/etc. numbering), much better handling of large complex documents (100 Mb+)
from someone who worked at proprietary binary-only software: It could be a lot bigger if Linux was less of a moving target. In my specific case: Lack of a standard way to talk to modems. (no not/dev/ttySXX, modems: Diamond Supra Pro 56 USB, Nokia 6150, Tornado III 9600, Siemems C55, some don't even use a character based protocol, but are essentially "winmodems") I just should be able to tell it: "Dail 123-456", NOT "ATDT 123-456", which might do the trick for some of them, depending on their GSM node network transparency settings and other stuff. I need drivers from the HW manufacturers and a standard modem API, I guess similar problems are holding back a lot of others.
There is: Windows Installer, it comes standard with w2k and XP and can be added to older systems. Wise and Installshield are no more than easy GUI builders for it. You could write your entire installer in Orca, the MS env. for it. It has versioning and package dependency, version 2.0 even does uninstalling correctly IF the programmer of the install script did his/her homework. It also supports updates and patches. I am no expert on rpm, but I think it's quite similar, as usual with MS.
Buh, MS is the only one not having a "save as PDF" probably because they do not like Adobe. AFAIK OO.org, Corel (WordPerfect, Draw) and Lotus, and maybe some others do include this option. I just happen to use Corel programs a lot, and they all do this just fine.
I find that whenever the prices for the system that's twice as fast/etc. as the one I have, are dropping below 1000 euro, I upgrade and sell the old one for about 500. ???? 286-20 -> AMD 386-40 -> Cyrix 486DX4-80 -> Cyrix P166+ -> AMD K6-300 -> AMD Duron700 -> AMD K7-1400 -> Intel P43.06HT
My Medion laptop came with a bluetooth remote, that can control all media apps: TV-tuner, DVD-player, CD-player, Photo viewer, mp3 player. I have to boot windows to use it, but works out of the box with the bundled apps. I am very pleased with this Medion laptop, it even runs Doom3 (only 20 fps though). If you want a Laptop, but also want a system with everything a desktop could have, exept maybe the latest video card, than you should check if Medion is available where you live. I have no connection to them, but I'm just very happy with this system.
My original point was: I would not like phone functions build into my car/toaster/etc. because I think the tech is immature and will be obsolete before the car/toaster/etc. Car radio's are mature to the point that I can still use my 13 year old CD-player perfectly well. Next to that the format is standardized. I could swap my 13 year old system for a new one and vice-versa without problems. I can not find a car-kit for my 5 year old mobile phone, let alone 13 years from now. I am willing to consider this kind of integration, if a standard format could be found, used by all manufacturers, and still in use ten years down the road. Maybe something with bluetooth will make this happen, but for now I do not see a standard that is already comprehensive enough that it will stil be sold 2 years from now. I'm not saying convergence should not happen, only that I think current tech is to immature/rapidly developing to be able to set a lasting standard already.
That's why it put it in quotes, I was only saying it was "hard core" compared to X-files.
I still think the basic definition of SF is quite clear: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Science fiction, generally speaking, is a form of speculative fiction which deals principally with the impact of imagined science and/or technology upon society or individuals. ---------- I still think this makes X-files SF, but makes Buffy fantasy.
I can realy adhere to his call for a uniform Device Manager/Driver (and therefore uniform driver API) In my specific case I do not want to talk to/dev/ttyS0 I want to talk to a Modem and tell it to Dial 123-456 at 9600 Baud 8N1 using GSM network transperency. I want the driver to know how the modem should accomplish this. He also mentions printing, it's a similar issue AFAIK. It's just an example, but a stable uniform interface and API on a higher level would make life much easier for a lot of independent software providers and hardware vendors to support Linux. This in turn would make Linux more viable. The big question is: Who would define such an interface and get the GUI and the Kernel people on board?
I know it's all about the age-old discussion between a fully free open easy to debug any modify system on the one hand, and a predictable stable consistent user friendly less open and free system on the onther hand. It's between Ideal and reality, between "we do not need to replace MS" and "we should replace MS", between "the optimal" solution and a stable environment, between open source and closed propretairy drivers. It's about backward compatibility and ease of use.
I bought Civ:CTP for Linux from Loki in 99/00, I haven't had time yet to try it on my SuSE 9.1, can anyone tell me if it will work?
A 1995+ program for Windows will most likely work on Windows XP.
WordPerfect 6 or 7 probably. Wordperfect (7-9) also has some menu's that give you more options if you hold Ctrl-Shift IIRC. Like somewhere in the print menu you can get acces to some realy low level print stuff. It once solved my problem with a buggy printer driver.
My experience with McAffee is the same, it makes my old K6-380 crawl. Running AVG or Norton works fine. Oh, and the updates take ages, esp. with my parents 28k8. It sometimes seems to be in a loop while updating going from 80% to 10% compete over and over again, until I reboot the machine. I have now replaced it.
The idea is that everyone benefits, because it's supposed to counter GLOBAL warming. As long as the USA is not joining, it's essentally freeloading on other people's efforts. This might arguably have some short term benefit on the USA economy, but it will not make them friends with the rest of the world, as they are by far the largest poluter per capita in the world.
It's a theme comming to the USA's current administration: Screw the rest of the world, we're only looking after our short term interests. As the long term problems this causes are global, the USA will not escape the consequences, but neither will anyone else.
I am just fearing that the current focus in the USA on short term goals, with disregard of their long term consequences will make the future world a worse place for everyone, including the USA.
Only because the USA is the biggest poluter, are most other nations asking it to reduce emissions, because it's behaviour has the most significant effect. Everybody benefits if everyone joins, but without the USA, everyone looses.
Thank you for asking. As a matter of fact, yes I do, and it only has problems reading some CD-r's, but otherwise the system is still very usable. It's some quite expensive Pioneer system (sub-woofer, remote control, removable face, 4 individualy adjustable speakers, RDS) I bought the car for 2000 euro, but remember it was about 35.000 new (1991 prices). It never skips, I can do speedbumps at 50km/h that make my friends players skip at 30, but not the Pioneer. I only regret that the original buyer did not buy the optional CD-changer in the trunk.
Car audio and CD audio have not changed much since 1991, and were using a STANDARD form factor still in use today. These are signs of a much more mature technology as mobile phones are today.
I'm not from the USA so I wil personally never have an effect, but how about having a large county recording all votes for the same candidate. Have 100% of votes in a large county in Texas go to Badnarik.
I have no idea how to accomplish this, but it would certainly raise the right kind of questions.
Two reasons: 1) the tech is still developing so fast, it would make things obsolete very fast. I drive a 1991 SAAB, and wonder what it would be like if it had a 1991 mobile phone, probably useless. 2) I do not like all this integration, if my fictional 1991 SAAB mobile phone would break, I suppose I could get another one at $2000 from their spare parts service in Trollhattan. No thank you, the spare parts I can not find second hand are expensive enough as it is.
Only if the tech has matured enough that a mobile phone has a usefull life of 10+ years like most appliances, will we see things like this I think. There is some integration with other devices that are aving similar usefull lifes, because they are also still under heavy developement, but I think it will stay at that for now.
Slashdot Mirror
I've been using SuSE and YaST since version 6.2 (1999 or there about) and although it also uses rpm, it also does exactly all the things you list AFAIK. I haven't ran into a problem yet, but have mainly used .rpm's provided by SuSE, maybe a handfull others.
It's the reason I keep buying their CD's/DVD's every now and then (6.2, 7.1, 8.1, 9.1). Esp. before I had DSL, ftp was just to much of a hassle, if nearly everything can be bought on 2 DVD's at the shop around the corner.
In either case whatever you are comparing, have you tried running Windows XP on a 266 Mhz, 2GB HD, 32 MB RAM box?
As a matter of fact I did (well 64Mb RAM) and it didn't run as expected. Windows 2000, 95, 95OSR2, 98, 98SE, ME, NTSP5, NTSP6a work fine. IT used to be my previous employers install-test box (sometimes Norton Ghosted 6+ times an hour). Funny you'd mention it, as it was a 266Mhx, 2Gb HD, 64Mb RAM HP Brio IIRC.
I don't know if they are available where you live butr k very well for me. I've used these one's too: http://www.dutch-perfect.nl/
Vredestein Perfect (MAX) http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300006034
wo
never tried the Schwalbe Marathon's or http://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/technology.cfm K-shield
Wow, and I thought the Commodore brand and Tulip both didn't exist anymore since Escom AG and later it's Dutch renamed-to-Commodore daughter company went belly up in like 1997 or so.
Tulip used to be omnipresent in the Netherlands, but I don't see it anymore.
I would prefer something like this
//If we exceed MAXINT the behaviour of this counter is outside spec. //We might exceed MAXINT this is outside spec.a nges); //Too warn users that we are approaching limitsw _Changes);
if(Num_Crew_Changes > (MAXINT - MAXINT/10))
{
if(Num_Crew_Changes >= (MAXINT-2))
{
Logbook->WriteError(Error_Large_Number_Of_Crew_Ch
Error(Error_Large_Number_Of_Crew_Changes);
}
else
Logbook->WriteWarning(Warning_Large_Number_Of_Cre
}
I've found a different picture of Mont Olympus that explains what you see.l ympus. jpg
http://www.esa.int/export/mex_mm/images/x_o
Maybe you're only looking at the caldera's?
I'm also not sure how interpret the pictures, but they seem to make more sense to me if the circular features shown are actually the caldera's. Maybe it's only your mind playing tricks with the way you interpret the shadows. People tend to interpret a 2D picture as if the light came from above. See if they make more sense to you after rotating 180 degrees.
Well, our Dutch minister Brinkhorst unfortunately still hasn't changed his vote, although our own parlaiment has voted against software patents. I did send an e-mail last spring to his party's office that his behaviour on this subject was a mayor reason for me to no vote on his party in the last european elections.
According to himself he's just afraid to lose face by changing his vote. But I think there's more to it. Any dutchies reading this, please let then know they are loosing votes over this issue.
http://www.d66.nl/contact
To all the people in this thread that are not familiar with WordPerfect past version 5.1/6.0, I have a few points to make:
b -documents (chapter 12&3 and 4,5&6 in different documents, but continuing page/graph/etc. numbering),
- I am in no way affiliated to WP or Corel.
- I did just buy WP 12 yesterday.
- For a good comparison between Word and WordPerfect you can visit: http://www.wpvsword.com
- In the Netherlands there is a version for education/non-profit at 39.95 euro, http://www.schoolbox.nl/sb_wp_office_12.html(no support), I have the impression the student and teacher edition is the cheapest at 89 dollar elsewhere (but does include support and with 20 dollar rebate).
- Despite that I got Word 2004 bundled with my laptop I find WP so much supperior that I bought it.
- My dad using WP 6.0 for DOS on his old 486 can still open documents I saved in the latest versions.
- I think WP lost because in the MS bundle Word+Excel+PowerPoint+Windows is a lot more usability with only a Word being inferior, but Excel, PowerPoint and Windows superior to the competing products Quatro Pro, Presentations and NovellDOS.
MS trying to kill WP didn't help, but the main problem is that MS will ship the complete bundle, like on my laptop, hiding it's cost and making WP "more expensive" no matter what the price is. Only free software can try compete with MS because of their monopoly, but users still need to download it as an extra hurdle. OEM's just can't ship with Firefox, WP, OO.org, etc.
- Some specific reasons I use WP:
Good export to HTML and PDF,
vastly superior equation editor (LateX like, now called the old style editor, because there is a MS like one too),
more advanced DTP options (print as book, folding scheme's), CONSISTENT PREDICTABLE behaviour,
reveal codes/underwater screen,
much more advanced numbering/referencing/caption options for equations/graphs/references/lines/paragraphs,
su
much better handling of large complex documents (100 Mb+)
from someone who worked at proprietary binary-only software: /dev/ttySXX, modems: Diamond Supra Pro 56 USB, Nokia 6150, Tornado III 9600, Siemems C55, some don't even use a character based protocol, but are essentially "winmodems") I just should be able to tell it: "Dail 123-456", NOT "ATDT 123-456", which might do the trick for some of them, depending on their GSM node network transparency settings and other stuff.
It could be a lot bigger if Linux was less of a moving target.
In my specific case: Lack of a standard way to talk to modems. (no not
I need drivers from the HW manufacturers and a standard modem API, I guess similar problems are holding back a lot of others.
There is: Windows Installer, it comes standard with w2k and XP and
can be added to older systems.
Wise and Installshield are no more than easy GUI builders for it.
You could write your entire installer in Orca, the MS env. for it.
It has versioning and package dependency, version 2.0 even does uninstalling correctly IF the programmer of the install script did his/her homework. It also supports updates and patches.
I am no expert on rpm, but I think it's quite similar, as usual with MS.
Buh, MS is the only one not having a "save as PDF" probably because they do not like Adobe. AFAIK OO.org, Corel (WordPerfect, Draw) and Lotus, and maybe some others do include this option.
I just happen to use Corel programs a lot, and they all do this just fine.
I find that whenever the prices for the system that's twice as fast/etc. as the one I have, are dropping below 1000 euro, I upgrade and sell the old one for about 500.
???? 286-20 -> AMD 386-40 -> Cyrix 486DX4-80 -> Cyrix P166+ -> AMD K6-300 -> AMD Duron700 -> AMD K7-1400 -> Intel P43.06HT
Hmmm, their USA site is not very good, I live in the Netherlands, and their German site is o.k., but I'm not sure you could read that.
My Medion laptop came with a bluetooth remote, that can control all media apps: TV-tuner, DVD-player, CD-player, Photo viewer, mp3 player.
I have to boot windows to use it, but works out of the box with the bundled apps. I am very pleased with this Medion laptop, it even runs Doom3 (only 20 fps though). If you want a Laptop, but also want a system with everything a desktop could have, exept maybe the latest video card, than you should check if Medion is available where you live.
I have no connection to them, but I'm just very happy with this system.
My original point was:
I would not like phone functions build into my car/toaster/etc. because I think the tech is immature and will be obsolete before the car/toaster/etc.
Car radio's are mature to the point that I can still use my 13 year old CD-player perfectly well. Next to that the format is standardized. I could swap my 13 year old system for a new one and vice-versa without problems.
I can not find a car-kit for my 5 year old mobile phone, let alone 13 years from now.
I am willing to consider this kind of integration, if a standard format could be found, used by all manufacturers, and still in use ten years down the road. Maybe something with bluetooth will make this happen, but for now I do not see a standard that is already comprehensive enough that it will stil be sold 2 years from now. I'm not saying convergence should not happen, only that I think current tech is to immature/rapidly developing to be able to set a lasting standard already.
Thank you I will check those out.
That's why it put it in quotes, I was only saying it was "hard core" compared to X-files.
I still think the basic definition of SF is quite clear:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Science fiction, generally speaking, is a form of speculative fiction which deals principally with the impact of imagined science and/or technology upon society or individuals.
----------
I still think this makes X-files SF, but makes Buffy fantasy.
I can realy adhere to his call for a uniform Device Manager/Driver (and therefore uniform driver API) /dev/ttyS0
In my specific case I do not want to talk to
I want to talk to a Modem and tell it to Dial 123-456 at 9600 Baud 8N1
using GSM network transperency. I want the driver to know how the modem should accomplish this. He also mentions printing, it's a similar issue AFAIK.
It's just an example, but a stable uniform interface and API on a higher level would make life much easier for a lot of independent software providers and hardware vendors to support Linux. This in turn would make Linux more viable.
The big question is:
Who would define such an interface and get the GUI and the Kernel people on board?
I know it's all about the age-old discussion between a fully free open easy to debug any modify system on the one hand, and a predictable stable consistent user friendly less open and free system on the onther hand.
It's between Ideal and reality, between "we do not need to replace MS" and "we should replace MS", between "the optimal" solution and a stable environment, between open source and closed propretairy drivers. It's about backward compatibility and ease of use.
I bought Civ:CTP for Linux from Loki in 99/00, I haven't had time yet to try it on my SuSE 9.1, can anyone tell me if it will work?
A 1995+ program for Windows will most likely work on Windows XP.
WordPerfect 6 or 7 probably.
Wordperfect (7-9) also has some menu's that give you more options if you hold Ctrl-Shift IIRC. Like somewhere in the print menu you can get acces to some realy low level print stuff. It once solved my problem with a buggy printer driver.
My experience with McAffee is the same, it makes my old K6-380 crawl. Running AVG or Norton works fine.
Oh, and the updates take ages, esp. with my parents 28k8. It sometimes seems to be in a loop while updating going from 80% to 10% compete over and over again, until I reboot the machine. I have now replaced it.
The idea is that everyone benefits, because it's supposed to counter GLOBAL warming.
As long as the USA is not joining, it's essentally freeloading on other people's efforts. This might arguably have some short term benefit on the USA economy, but it will not make them friends with the rest of the world, as they are by far the largest poluter per capita in the world.
It's a theme comming to the USA's current administration: Screw the rest of the world, we're only looking after our short term interests.
As the long term problems this causes are global, the USA will not escape the consequences, but neither will anyone else.
I am just fearing that the current focus in the USA on short term goals, with disregard of their long term consequences will make the future world a worse place for everyone, including the USA.
Only because the USA is the biggest poluter, are most other nations asking it to reduce emissions, because it's behaviour has the most significant effect. Everybody benefits if everyone joins, but without the USA, everyone looses.
Thank you for asking.
As a matter of fact, yes I do, and it only has problems reading some CD-r's, but otherwise the system is still very usable. It's some quite expensive Pioneer system (sub-woofer, remote control, removable face, 4 individualy adjustable speakers, RDS) I bought the car for 2000 euro, but remember it was about 35.000 new (1991 prices).
It never skips, I can do speedbumps at 50km/h that make my friends players skip at 30, but not the Pioneer. I only regret that the original buyer did not buy the optional CD-changer in the trunk.
Car audio and CD audio have not changed much since 1991, and were using a STANDARD form factor still in use today. These are signs of a much more mature technology as mobile phones are today.
I'm not from the USA so I wil personally never have an effect,
but how about having a large county recording all votes for the same candidate. Have 100% of votes in a large county in Texas go to Badnarik.
I have no idea how to accomplish this, but it would certainly raise the right kind of questions.
Two reasons:
1) the tech is still developing so fast, it would make things obsolete very fast. I drive a 1991 SAAB, and wonder what it would be like if it had a 1991 mobile phone, probably useless.
2) I do not like all this integration, if my fictional 1991 SAAB mobile phone would break, I suppose I could get another one at $2000 from their spare parts service in Trollhattan. No thank you, the spare parts I can not find second hand are expensive enough as it is.
Only if the tech has matured enough that a mobile phone has a usefull life of 10+ years like most appliances, will we see things like this I think. There is some integration with other devices that are aving similar usefull lifes, because they are also still under heavy developement, but I think it will stay at that for now.