Western Civilization is uninfluenced by it's media... it created them! The influence in on the media, it reflects our -actual- values. It doesn't make us more violent, we already were violent and put than in our media. It doesn't make us more shallow, we were already shallow and put that in there. They are being influenced by us and reacting much the way indigenous people did when the missionaries came over... that is, to the real culture, not the idealized "no, this is what our culture is about" culture.
yes, the appearance of speed in youth, regarding programmer is a few things you touch on.
(1) if you only know one possible way, you don't think about it, you just do it that way. When you get older and know multiple ways (and multiple types of mistakes, and what happens down the road), you go slower, on purpose, to get to the destination faster (learning to debug less by coding sloweris just an example of that).
(2) when I was younger I sprinted to the finish line of having something that seemed to work and didn't worry about flaws... because in the back of my mind, I wondered if it could be done! I wanted to see results, because who knew if there would be any. Then, hundreds of results later... I know I can complete it, and am more concerned with the how and relative merits of how I'll do it. I can take time because I know that I can start a two-year project and in two years... have a working system I envisioned.
We are logicians. Logicians are not better at younger ages, especially in a dirty engineering logic with a lot of gotchas (not the purity of mathematics).
The perception of hiring managers are important for us because it determines if we get the work. HOWEVER: there can be no doubt, experience is something. Software is poorly understood. You are not taught the ins-and-outs at school, only through experience and apprenticeship.
Our sector simply has a false and temporary youth culture because just a generation ago people had mental blocks against computers, older people really didn't think the right way to learn whereas 14 year old would bend their mind around the new concept. However, now, things are different.
A bigger problem is just all the incompetent people... they grow older and just THINK they have gotten better, they make people that have used their time alive look worse.
I like watching everyone in the nation pretend the time has changed twice a year... all the mainland stuff changes by an hour and everyone acts like nothing has happened.
"what happened?"
"Oh, nothing, we just used our mighty power to MOVE THE SUN BACK AN HOUR in the sky! that's all."
The implication here is very clear. Many companies which have incorporated the disputed code would need to release their code under the GPL.
nope, it doesn't work like that. SCO can have it's IP under different licenses. Only the stuff they shipped GPL could be kept GPL. And only if they have used GPL code in their stuff, that doesn't make their stuff GPL. It just means they have stolen the code and the copyright owners (like Linus) could sue them. They might get money (whatever SCO made from it), or they might only make SCO stop doing it.
the chances are reduced to the upgrade cycle, which is getting longer, but everytime an upgrade is considered, another system has a chance. If not linux, some other commodotization of software, with software cheap and in some cases free.
anyone can buy one of these machines, they are all over in little shops, new or used. So it's the same way video game machine roms get rommed.
It wasn't illegal opening it and getting the rom. Posting them on the internet was though, but hey... in this case there might be a legal defense because of the fraud involved.
Yes yes, I know it's legal to rig the game, but not the part where it implies you are getting an extra gamble. If you guess a number higher or lower than a marker number, that implies certain odds of success and that it is a gamble, not a predetermined game at some other odds.
exactly, it would be a death sentence, and they might even be sued for the code they mingled, forcing it into the GPLed world (assuming they knowingly did this).
damages don't have to be based on the price of linux, it can be based on the profits the infringer made. Where would the fine go? That's sort of the hard part.
nice to have W. Buffet on the side of the little man, eh? Well, now that the money men are all into pump and sell and Buffet is Mr. "What does this business do in the real world"... everything's upside down.
An IP attorney I know explained damages in his area (working mostly with photographers), and you can also set the damages not on you sale price but on the money made by infringing. So SCO could be sued for those hundreds of millions.
However, who get the money? Who does the suing, etc.
I too am a bit worried about scenarios like the one you lay out, even if one is confident it works out in the end, legally, on paper, the impact to free software's chances in business is harder to guess. Right now I'm rooting strongly for it, not because of free ideals, I just like having a set of tools I can learn and become more expert in. A world of only proprietary tools is like one where every screwdriver uses a different head-pattern! frustrating, and making for a heavy toolbox for the integrators.
you're right. The real issue is the two months they still shipped and the fact that they are indemnifying their previous linux customers. If SCO's NON-GPL code is in those copies of linux it's either GPLed now or SCO is illegally shipping linux in violation of the GPL.
SCO seems to be forgetting, they can indemnify their users against the use of SCO IP, but they cannot do that with all the rest of the linux code, which is legitimately GPLed. As if only their IP is of concern.
I repeat, either their IP is now GPLed or they are violating the GPL. They must not just stop shipping Linux, they must recall the versions they have distributed.
One, there is still reason to be scared, they have Boies.
However, consider this... they still ARE shipping their IP under GPL because they have aggreed to indemnify their own users. That code is under GPL, period, or else they can't distribute without THEM violating the codes license. They need to actually recall their shipments of linux.
Otherwise, if they persist in their claim that it has their proprietary IP then they have violated the GPL by telling their customers they may keep it. Further, their CUSTOMERS can be sued for violating the GPL now that they have been informed that there is proprietary code mixed with GPL code, a mix the GPL doesn't allow in the case of "code fragments".
so the cost of getting something for free is giving something for free? That's not a restriction on you, that's a choice, a temptation, or even a faustian bargain, but not a restriction, really, couched as it is behind you accepting charity (free code).
Slashdot Mirror
It's also quite deep because it is often the fact that our biggest flaws are also the root of our biggest assets.
It's a bit like Nietzsche's idea that you can't teach something to someone they havn't already learned themselves.
if SCO loses that means their code was not stolen into linux.
after which point there isn't likely to be much point in carrying an air of superiority... cause you'd be dead.
Western Civilization is uninfluenced by it's media... it created them! The influence in on the media, it reflects our -actual- values. It doesn't make us more violent, we already were violent and put than in our media. It doesn't make us more shallow, we were already shallow and put that in there. They are being influenced by us and reacting much the way indigenous people did when the missionaries came over... that is, to the real culture, not the idealized "no, this is what our culture is about" culture.
I'm 35 and still get IDed for liquer (even with my two kids at the store with me!)...
I want to play the age discrimination card right, what the hell am I supposed to do! Aaaaack!
yes, the appearance of speed in youth, regarding programmer is a few things you touch on.
(1) if you only know one possible way, you don't think about it, you just do it that way. When you get older and know multiple ways (and multiple types of mistakes, and what happens down the road), you go slower, on purpose, to get to the destination faster (learning to debug less by coding sloweris just an example of that).
(2) when I was younger I sprinted to the finish line of having something that seemed to work and didn't worry about flaws... because in the back of my mind, I wondered if it could be done! I wanted to see results, because who knew if there would be any. Then, hundreds of results later... I know I can complete it, and am more concerned with the how and relative merits of how I'll do it. I can take time because I know that I can start a two-year project and in two years... have a working system I envisioned.
We are logicians. Logicians are not better at younger ages, especially in a dirty engineering logic with a lot of gotchas (not the purity of mathematics).
The perception of hiring managers are important for us because it determines if we get the work. HOWEVER: there can be no doubt, experience is something. Software is poorly understood. You are not taught the ins-and-outs at school, only through experience and apprenticeship.
Our sector simply has a false and temporary youth culture because just a generation ago people had mental blocks against computers, older people really didn't think the right way to learn whereas 14 year old would bend their mind around the new concept. However, now, things are different.
A bigger problem is just all the incompetent people... they grow older and just THINK they have gotten better, they make people that have used their time alive look worse.
hey, didn't you ever hear two wrongs don't make a right? huh? didn't ya?! :)
yes, hawaii and arizona as well.
I like watching everyone in the nation pretend the time has changed twice a year... all the mainland stuff changes by an hour and everyone acts like nothing has happened.
"what happened?"
"Oh, nothing, we just used our mighty power to MOVE THE SUN BACK AN HOUR in the sky! that's all."
... no... I've changed my mind. One Billion!
-(+1 Informative) AC
> You know you're a geek if you've ever replied to a tagline.
no--- I don't think so. But besides, I never would.
how so? truth loves a question.
The implication here is very clear. Many companies which have incorporated the disputed code would need to release their code under the GPL.
nope, it doesn't work like that. SCO can have it's IP under different licenses. Only the stuff they shipped GPL could be kept GPL. And only if they have used GPL code in their stuff, that doesn't make their stuff GPL. It just means they have stolen the code and the copyright owners (like Linus) could sue them. They might get money (whatever SCO made from it), or they might only make SCO stop doing it.
It's not really viral.
the chances are reduced to the upgrade cycle, which is getting longer, but everytime an upgrade is considered, another system has a chance. If not linux, some other commodotization of software, with software cheap and in some cases free.
anyone can buy one of these machines, they are all over in little shops, new or used. So it's the same way video game machine roms get rommed.
It wasn't illegal opening it and getting the rom. Posting them on the internet was though, but hey... in this case there might be a legal defense because of the fraud involved.
Yes yes, I know it's legal to rig the game, but not the part where it implies you are getting an extra gamble. If you guess a number higher or lower than a marker number, that implies certain odds of success and that it is a gamble, not a predetermined game at some other odds.
exactly, it would be a death sentence, and they might even be sued for the code they mingled, forcing it into the GPLed world (assuming they knowingly did this).
damages don't have to be based on the price of linux, it can be based on the profits the infringer made. Where would the fine go? That's sort of the hard part.
nice to have W. Buffet on the side of the little man, eh? Well, now that the money men are all into pump and sell and Buffet is Mr. "What does this business do in the real world"... everything's upside down.
:)
Buffet for Fed Chairman!?
An IP attorney I know explained damages in his area (working mostly with photographers), and you can also set the damages not on you sale price but on the money made by infringing. So SCO could be sued for those hundreds of millions.
However, who get the money? Who does the suing, etc.
I too am a bit worried about scenarios like the one you lay out, even if one is confident it works out in the end, legally, on paper, the impact to free software's chances in business is harder to guess. Right now I'm rooting strongly for it, not because of free ideals, I just like having a set of tools I can learn and become more expert in. A world of only proprietary tools is like one where every screwdriver uses a different head-pattern! frustrating, and making for a heavy toolbox for the integrators.
Once you learn that the product was not your to legally use, you have to stop using it.
:)
My understanding is that you could use that defense up to the point you are informed of the infringement.
IANAL of course, but I do obsess on these issues...
typical vi user!
:)
just kidding, settle down.
you're right. The real issue is the two months they still shipped and the fact that they are indemnifying their previous linux customers. If SCO's NON-GPL code is in those copies of linux it's either GPLed now or SCO is illegally shipping linux in violation of the GPL.
SCO seems to be forgetting, they can indemnify their users against the use of SCO IP, but they cannot do that with all the rest of the linux code, which is legitimately GPLed. As if only their IP is of concern.
I repeat, either their IP is now GPLed or they are violating the GPL. They must not just stop shipping Linux, they must recall the versions they have distributed.
you know, there are a lot of employers that never hire someone that lists their hobbies on their resume!
One, there is still reason to be scared, they have Boies.
However, consider this... they still ARE shipping their IP under GPL because they have aggreed to indemnify their own users. That code is under GPL, period, or else they can't distribute without THEM violating the codes license. They need to actually recall their shipments of linux.
Otherwise, if they persist in their claim that it has their proprietary IP then they have violated the GPL by telling their customers they may keep it. Further, their CUSTOMERS can be sued for violating the GPL now that they have been informed that there is proprietary code mixed with GPL code, a mix the GPL doesn't allow in the case of "code fragments".
so the cost of getting something for free is giving something for free? That's not a restriction on you, that's a choice, a temptation, or even a faustian bargain, but not a restriction, really, couched as it is behind you accepting charity (free code).