> Never, ever, ever, unless you like broken boxes use ACCEPT_KEYWORDS.
As long as you don't go and emerge world with it, you're fine. It's probably insane to use it for glibc and gcc, and I'm not sure I like the way the ~arch keyword has been overloaded to mean "arch specific" AND "unstable" (it masks too much stuff that is perfectly stable), but the worst I've ever seen it do was use a broken ebuild and fail to compile it.
Yes, I have made the mistake of emerging a bleeding edge glibc. It hasn't completely stopped me from occasionally using ACCEPT_KEYWORDS however.
Good for you. I just spent $70 on some tickets. The confirmation ended up in my junk folder in Thunderbird. You win some, you lose some, though all in all it's been a steady 90% effective, and that was 1 of only 2 fp's it had (aside from the first few training days, which are pretty much 50/50).
Anyway, your ISP payed to receive and store that spam. And it adds up, it really does. Hundreds of gigabytes to provision, manage, and even back up.
I read the article. I stopped at "if the sender is not in the whitelist, send back a challenge".
Ok, so it's either C/R (as bad as spam), or it's a complex transaction in-protocol, which has to have both ends simultaneously do nothing more than the simple task of re-engineering their entire mail architecture to ensure more or less realtime response during this protocol operation while 1,000,00 other messages are being exchanged.
It also requires strong authentication. As in, all you need is PKI that scales to the entire Internet.
Yep, it's doable. You can start your own mail system from scratch that uses it. I'm sure AOL, Earthlink, MSN, Yahoo, and Comcast will gladly migrate to it overnight.
Another plus of calling it USAPATRIOT is it has that jargon-laden bureaucratic code name feel that evokes feelings of cold and impersonal menace. Like COINTELPRO.
I love the way you pronounce it though:)
Just for the edification of the readers, what torturous phrase does the acronym expand to? I roughly know the the PATRIOT (PAT RIOT?) part, but I don't know if USA expands to something other than the obvious.
> Horrible idea. None of the good desktop interfaces out there have *ever* required certification.
Where on earth did they say "require"? They said "document". As in, "you can use the official ``Works With GNOME'' Logo if you pass these tests." and "Distribution FooLinux has committed to only placing certified apps on the default desktop and the panel".
Come to mention it... where'd the panel go?
> I *don't* think that one-click-download-and-execution should ever happen in a web browser or email client.
There are circumstances where it can be okay, but in general I agree with you. I also don't think the perceived need is so critical. A novice user need merely drag a package link from the web browser to their desktop then double-click it. If people more or less agreed on a standard icon for rpm links (and debs, and whatnot) like what is done with pdf files (the little acrobat logo), then the nature of these links would become second nature. Being prompted for the root password would also become second nature. Installing viruses this way could also become second nature, but the roadblock of being asked for the root password would at least limit it to the category of folks who fall for phishing scams.
Now that Linux boxes can potentially let their end users royally hose them, have any of the desktop distros looked at packaging and simplifying snapshot and restore utilities like ghost? To say nothing of something like XP system restore points...
> 4 rows of 3 numbers (plus # and *), equally sized. Is that really too much to ask for?
The Nokia 6600 is like this. The buttons are really crammed together tho, so it's not for the fat-fingered. I kind of wanted an ericsson myself (also of the "no clamshells, no pointy antennas" school), but T-Mobile didn't have the one I wanted, and we got a good deal on two of 'em, so here I am. Gets damn nice reception tho, so I'm quite happy with it.
> As I understand it, Bluetooth allows two different electronic devices to interact, but what would a bluetooth cell phone do?
You can send data between bluetooth phones without going through SMS (slow, costs, requires giving out a phone #). Open a connection via any bluetooth laptop, and you can surf the net over GPRS (about 56K). My favorite is bluetooth headsets. I put the thing on my ear (it weighs next to nothing), press the button on it, and just speak to voice dial. Of course, I can also answer a call by pressing the button too. It's made by a different vendor, but thanks to it being bluetooth, it interoperates just fine -- no funky proprietary adaptors (except to charge it, so I bet you can guess what model it is). There's also bluetooth keyboards for people who send a lot of SMS.
Maven is probably best thought of as a java equivalent to portage, i.e. it concerns itself with fetching, building, packaging (including metadata like authors and such), and version tracking. It just lacks a browseable set of package skeletons the way ports and portage does.
I used maven about a year ago, and I found it to be incredibly slow, bloated, underdocumented, amateurish, slipshod, and oh yes, buggy. It seems designed around some sort of "kitchen sink" approach of "xml is kewl, plugins are kewl, let's glom it all together and make something... kewl".
Honestly, whenever I see the word "plugin", I think someone hasn't really designed things well. Instead of providing a coherent app, they make a library of functions and let random piecemeal bits added after the thought take over the actual functioning. I'm not knocking component design, just the typical thought process that goes into typical "plugin" architectures. Stick with ant, you'll be much more sane for it.
> Not to mention there is SO much corruption and waste in government only like 20% of our 50% tax makes it anywere
Whereas our government efficiently pours it all out the bomb bay doors. I really need to get my degree so I can emigrate more easily. I was thinking New Zealand actually...
Yippie skippie. Show me the code for a RFC822 and MIME multipart parser or something actually beyond this hello world stuff. Regular expressions are library stuff, they have been trivial for more than 10 years. Show me some real work getting done.
(no this isn't aimed at you, I just want to hang my reply off something)
> Bookmarklets are cool (do these work on Mozilla/Firefox/Opera?)
Interesting you say that - javascript bookmarks are the very reason I switched to Firefox. See, a bookmark of any kind can only be about 500-odd characters in IE (520 I think?). Do you know how hard it was to stuff a base64 decoder into that many bytes? I did it and picked up an Obfuscated Javascript Code Contest prize along the way (no, I just wish). Unfortunately it has some cosmetic bugs I can't fix because I'm out of room. Other bookmarklets I just couldn't write at all.
They can be any length at all in firefox. Woodamn, I have some really insane bookmarklets that automate this web app I use daily.
> You can embed HTML in the TaskBar
That's reasonably neat.. it's too bad MS has given up on meaningful integration efforts. Heck, even IE doesn't integrate with explorer as well as Konquerer integrates KHTML (I am on a windows platform tho, so I'm not really boosting Konq)
> You just can't beat the real Gooogle Toolbar
I use 99% of it for basic searches. I just use the address bar now.
> DHTML Behaviors can make client-side development a breeze!
Oh my yes. I wish wish wish WISH mozilla would support something similar. It's 90% of the way there with XUL and XBL, it just needs a scripty front-end!
> Like most newer Windows products, you can rearrange the toolbars with maximum flexibility
Naw, you want maximim flexibility, try Opera. You can drag damn near anything anywhere in Opera:)
> For instance, if I wanted to add 1 and 2, I would create two integer objects with respective values, find the addition function, and wire them together to an output (indicator - think text box)
Awesome. I on the other hand would use a dedicated peripheral with buttons I can press in short sequences to compose graphical symbols, and the relative position of these graphical symbols to each other would create the relation between them and their operators.
Here's an example: 1 + 2
Isn't that awesome? Here's another example: sqrt(x**2+y**2)
I've heard you can really pack a lot of these graphical thingies onto a screen.
Go grab a copy of Resin and set it up to use Jikes for the autocompilation, and then you can tell me Java is slow. Hell, with Resin it's not even all that cumbersome -- except of course for the Java language itself.
I remember putting a CMS together with PHP4, something like Midgard, but pure PHP with multiple backends. It's not entirely a bad design even now, though I think Zope has a better answer.
I ran into some awesomely dumb stuff. I mean "what are they smoking" stuff.
Brain dead parser: First of all, this requirement to put everything in tags or whatever brackets you have defined. What is this, javascript? (and even javascript doesn't need it if you use src="foo.js"). That alone, not so bad, but the parser would easily choke on any end bracket construct ANYWHERE -- in a string, in a comment, etc.
Flat namespace. OOP completely unused in extensions. Since PHP can easily call functions dynamically by name, and we have PEAR now, I consider the problem solved. No worse a hack than perl's OOP implementation, really. But I had other problems with OOP...
Pass-by-value: PHP4 would pass objects by value. Which is actually great if I want such value-type, but 99.9% of the time, I don't. What made matters worse was PHP's twisted notion of object identity -- it had no operator to test it. Equality comparison operators were always by value, and either "shallow" or "deep". I had to explain the concept of object identity, and for my trouble, got the '===' operator... which did exactly the WRONG thing and implemented even DEEPER comparison. That was the point where I went over the edge and wrote off PHP. I hear this behavior has mercifully changed to a sane one in PHP5.
Second-class-language attitude: I got choice responses from Zeev himself about how PHP is never intended to be more than a "web language" (apparently meaning limited to trivial scripting, because the web apps I use sure aren't trivial). PHP can be and has been used for powerful things, but I don't see writing a caching bulk DNS lookup service that tests against multiple RBL's using PHP if I can't get a serious contender to Net::DNS because PHP is "merely a web language" after all. I used Perl for that, then switched it to Python (stackless was ideal for this job) and then dropped it into the object publisher in mod_python. Painless. There is no such thing as a "web language", behind every web app there should be a *real* language.
Error handling: Nonexistent. Got an error, it would print a traceback to the output if you were lucky. Syntax errors would simply die without any useful diagnostic. No eval (well there is, but it would also just die on syntax errors). I've seen structured exceptions in C, but PHP's was awful. Awesomely brittle.
Hopefully PHP5 is migrating most of these warts away from PHP4. Perl certainly still has its own problems (mod_perl 2.0 is still not in a stable release state) so it's not too late for PHP among current perl users.
David Warner, as Irenecus in Baldurs Gate II. All around great voice acting in that game, with the exception of Imoen's bratty whiny prattle which sounded as if it were voiced by a 16 year old waitress...
Slashdot Mirror
> Never, ever, ever, unless you like broken boxes use ACCEPT_KEYWORDS.
As long as you don't go and emerge world with it, you're fine. It's probably insane to use it for glibc and gcc, and I'm not sure I like the way the ~arch keyword has been overloaded to mean "arch specific" AND "unstable" (it masks too much stuff that is perfectly stable), but the worst I've ever seen it do was use a broken ebuild and fail to compile it.
Yes, I have made the mistake of emerging a bleeding edge glibc. It hasn't completely stopped me from occasionally using ACCEPT_KEYWORDS however.
> Never found a false positive in 1,5 years.
Good for you. I just spent $70 on some tickets. The confirmation ended up in my junk folder in Thunderbird. You win some, you lose some, though all in all it's been a steady 90% effective, and that was 1 of only 2 fp's it had (aside from the first few training days, which are pretty much 50/50).
Anyway, your ISP payed to receive and store that spam. And it adds up, it really does. Hundreds of gigabytes to provision, manage, and even back up.
I read the article. I stopped at "if the sender is not in the whitelist, send back a challenge".
Ok, so it's either C/R (as bad as spam), or it's a complex transaction in-protocol, which has to have both ends simultaneously do nothing more than the simple task of re-engineering their entire mail architecture to ensure more or less realtime response during this protocol operation while 1,000,00 other messages are being exchanged.
It also requires strong authentication. As in, all you need is PKI that scales to the entire Internet.
Yep, it's doable. You can start your own mail system from scratch that uses it. I'm sure AOL, Earthlink, MSN, Yahoo, and Comcast will gladly migrate to it overnight.
Do I really need the obvious end tag?
Another plus of calling it USAPATRIOT is it has that jargon-laden bureaucratic code name feel that evokes feelings of cold and impersonal menace. Like COINTELPRO.
:)
I love the way you pronounce it though
Just for the edification of the readers, what torturous phrase does the acronym expand to? I roughly know the the PATRIOT (PAT RIOT?) part, but I don't know if USA expands to something other than the obvious.
Possibly it was a hiptop? Or heck, maybe it was a Newton.
...the submitter of the first story!
Way to go Slashdot. Those night school lessons in journalism must really be paying dividends.
One piece of advice to the opposition: the Free Software community says they promote freedom, but often, that's not the case
Oh gosh, Freshmeat refused to list my variant, I'm being opressed. Look at poor poor me, oppressed by Freshmeat and the whole OSS community.
When Sourceforge, Savannah, and Berlios all reject your project, you might have a point. All you are doing right now is whining.
> Horrible idea. None of the good desktop interfaces out there have *ever* required certification.
... where'd the panel go?
Where on earth did they say "require"? They said "document". As in, "you can use the official ``Works With GNOME'' Logo if you pass these tests." and "Distribution FooLinux has committed to only placing certified apps on the default desktop and the panel".
Come to mention it
> I *don't* think that one-click-download-and-execution should ever happen in a web browser or email client.
There are circumstances where it can be okay, but in general I agree with you. I also don't think the perceived need is so critical. A novice user need merely drag a package link from the web browser to their desktop then double-click it. If people more or less agreed on a standard icon for rpm links (and debs, and whatnot) like what is done with pdf files (the little acrobat logo), then the nature of these links would become second nature. Being prompted for the root password would also become second nature. Installing viruses this way could also become second nature, but the roadblock of being asked for the root password would at least limit it to the category of folks who fall for phishing scams.
Now that Linux boxes can potentially let their end users royally hose them, have any of the desktop distros looked at packaging and simplifying snapshot and restore utilities like ghost? To say nothing of something like XP system restore points...
> Besides a few notable games like Battlefield:Vietnam and Far Cry
A shooter, and a shooter.
> Things should really pick up for the PC with the releases of Doom 3, HL2, Rome:Total War, and the likes.
A shooter, a shooter, and a RTS. I guess the likes would be either a shooter or an RTS?
> Pong: Snoop Dogg Edition
Bounce dat pizixel ball off mah padaddle, smack!
> 4 rows of 3 numbers (plus # and *), equally sized. Is that really too much to ask for?
The Nokia 6600 is like this. The buttons are really crammed together tho, so it's not for the fat-fingered. I kind of wanted an ericsson myself (also of the "no clamshells, no pointy antennas" school), but T-Mobile didn't have the one I wanted, and we got a good deal on two of 'em, so here I am. Gets damn nice reception tho, so I'm quite happy with it.
> As I understand it, Bluetooth allows two different electronic devices to interact, but what would a bluetooth cell phone do?
You can send data between bluetooth phones without going through SMS (slow, costs, requires giving out a phone #). Open a connection via any bluetooth laptop, and you can surf the net over GPRS (about 56K). My favorite is bluetooth headsets. I put the thing on my ear (it weighs next to nothing), press the button on it, and just speak to voice dial. Of course, I can also answer a call by pressing the button too. It's made by a different vendor, but thanks to it being bluetooth, it interoperates just fine -- no funky proprietary adaptors (except to charge it, so I bet you can guess what model it is). There's also bluetooth keyboards for people who send a lot of SMS.
.. for "cases and cooling". God knows I'm sick to death of seeing Yet Another Case Mod and Yet Another Cooling System.
Maven is probably best thought of as a java equivalent to portage, i.e. it concerns itself with fetching, building, packaging (including metadata like authors and such), and version tracking. It just lacks a browseable set of package skeletons the way ports and portage does. ... kewl".
I used maven about a year ago, and I found it to be incredibly slow, bloated, underdocumented, amateurish, slipshod, and oh yes, buggy. It seems designed around some sort of "kitchen sink" approach of "xml is kewl, plugins are kewl, let's glom it all together and make something
Honestly, whenever I see the word "plugin", I think someone hasn't really designed things well. Instead of providing a coherent app, they make a library of functions and let random piecemeal bits added after the thought take over the actual functioning. I'm not knocking component design, just the typical thought process that goes into typical "plugin" architectures. Stick with ant, you'll be much more sane for it.
> Not to mention there is SO much corruption and waste in government only like 20% of our 50% tax makes it anywere
Whereas our government efficiently pours it all out the bomb bay doors. I really need to get my degree so I can emigrate more easily. I was thinking New Zealand actually...
> Will Verisign try to find issue with the report?
I would guess so. They're suing ICANN for, get this, antitrust.
I kind of hope they win and ICANN gets broken up in some way. Where does Verisign's authority stem from again? Oh yeah.
This is biting, chewing, and swallowing the hand that feeds you, then demanding the other one. (I think I just mangled a few metaphors there)
One Million Users heard to say: "ouch"
thankyaverymuch...
bool matches = Regex.IsMatch( input, regex );
Yippie skippie. Show me the code for a RFC822 and MIME multipart parser or something actually beyond this hello world stuff. Regular expressions are library stuff, they have been trivial for more than 10 years. Show me some real work getting done.
(no this isn't aimed at you, I just want to hang my reply off something)
> Bookmarklets are cool (do these work on Mozilla/Firefox/Opera?)
:)
Interesting you say that - javascript bookmarks are the very reason I switched to Firefox. See, a bookmark of any kind can only be about 500-odd characters in IE (520 I think?). Do you know how hard it was to stuff a base64 decoder into that many bytes? I did it and picked up an Obfuscated Javascript Code Contest prize along the way (no, I just wish). Unfortunately it has some cosmetic bugs I can't fix because I'm out of room. Other bookmarklets I just couldn't write at all.
They can be any length at all in firefox. Woodamn, I have some really insane bookmarklets that automate this web app I use daily.
> You can embed HTML in the TaskBar
That's reasonably neat.. it's too bad MS has given up on meaningful integration efforts. Heck, even IE doesn't integrate with explorer as well as Konquerer integrates KHTML (I am on a windows platform tho, so I'm not really boosting Konq)
> You just can't beat the real Gooogle Toolbar
I use 99% of it for basic searches. I just use the address bar now.
> DHTML Behaviors can make client-side development a breeze!
Oh my yes. I wish wish wish WISH mozilla would support something similar. It's 90% of the way there with XUL and XBL, it just needs a scripty front-end!
> Like most newer Windows products, you can rearrange the toolbars with maximum flexibility
Naw, you want maximim flexibility, try Opera. You can drag damn near anything anywhere in Opera
> For instance, if I wanted to add 1 and 2, I would create two integer objects with respective values, find the addition function, and wire them together to an output (indicator - think text box)
Awesome. I on the other hand would use a dedicated peripheral with buttons I can press in short sequences to compose graphical symbols, and the relative position of these graphical symbols to each other would create the relation between them and their operators.
Here's an example: 1 + 2
Isn't that awesome? Here's another example: sqrt(x**2+y**2)
I've heard you can really pack a lot of these graphical thingies onto a screen.
> Except for speed. :)
Go grab a copy of Resin and set it up to use Jikes for the autocompilation, and then you can tell me Java is slow. Hell, with Resin it's not even all that cumbersome -- except of course for the Java language itself.
I remember putting a CMS together with PHP4, something like Midgard, but pure PHP with multiple backends. It's not entirely a bad design even now, though I think Zope has a better answer.
... which did exactly the WRONG thing and implemented even DEEPER comparison. That was the point where I went over the edge and wrote off PHP. I hear this behavior has mercifully changed to a sane one in PHP5.
I ran into some awesomely dumb stuff. I mean "what are they smoking" stuff.
Brain dead parser: First of all, this requirement to put everything in tags or whatever brackets you have defined. What is this, javascript? (and even javascript doesn't need it if you use src="foo.js"). That alone, not so bad, but the parser would easily choke on any end bracket construct ANYWHERE -- in a string, in a comment, etc.
Flat namespace. OOP completely unused in extensions. Since PHP can easily call functions dynamically by name, and we have PEAR now, I consider the problem solved. No worse a hack than perl's OOP implementation, really. But I had other problems with OOP...
Pass-by-value: PHP4 would pass objects by value. Which is actually great if I want such value-type, but 99.9% of the time, I don't. What made matters worse was PHP's twisted notion of object identity -- it had no operator to test it. Equality comparison operators were always by value, and either "shallow" or "deep". I had to explain the concept of object identity, and for my trouble, got the '===' operator
Second-class-language attitude: I got choice responses from Zeev himself about how PHP is never intended to be more than a "web language" (apparently meaning limited to trivial scripting, because the web apps I use sure aren't trivial). PHP can be and has been used for powerful things, but I don't see writing a caching bulk DNS lookup service that tests against multiple RBL's using PHP if I can't get a serious contender to Net::DNS because PHP is "merely a web language" after all. I used Perl for that, then switched it to Python (stackless was ideal for this job) and then dropped it into the object publisher in mod_python. Painless. There is no such thing as a "web language", behind every web app there should be a *real* language.
Error handling: Nonexistent. Got an error, it would print a traceback to the output if you were lucky. Syntax errors would simply die without any useful diagnostic. No eval (well there is, but it would also just die on syntax errors). I've seen structured exceptions in C, but PHP's was awful. Awesomely brittle.
Hopefully PHP5 is migrating most of these warts away from PHP4. Perl certainly still has its own problems (mod_perl 2.0 is still not in a stable release state) so it's not too late for PHP among current perl users.
David Warner, as Irenecus in Baldurs Gate II. All around great voice acting in that game, with the exception of Imoen's bratty whiny prattle which sounded as if it were voiced by a 16 year old waitress...
> We used to have a Senate for the states. Thanks to the 17th Amendment, we don't anymore.
Ah, thanks for making it clear that I don't really have to argue with you anymore. Kook.
> Last time I checked mozilla source code was readily available to you. Patch it.
Ladies and gentlemen, that's how security is done at Mozilla.