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Gentoo 2004.2 Released
brghntr writes "The gentoo guys (and girls) have released 2004.2 for the x86, AMD64, HPPA, and SPARC. You can read the information page here or go straight to the mirrors."
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PPC wasn't mentioned, but it seems it's on its way too.
FP?
I've not had time to download the new version yet now all the mirrors are going to get /.'ed. I bet the author has got theirs updated already
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
This was annouced at about 1:20am BST, when I was about 200MB into disk 1 of 2004.1
So now I've got to downoad 2004.2 from the beginning, and trash 2004.1
If only I had warning...
NeoThermic
Use my link above, or to view my server, NeoThermic.com
If your regularly do an emerge -uD world then your system is pretty much up to date.
For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
I'm curious, why do linux distributions typically have PowerPC releases always up to a generation behind when it would seem that HPPA and SPARC are likely a smaller installed base?
Is it that there are relatively few of the PPC base demand a Linux distribution when compared to what are mostly server-class CPU's and more likely to be running a Linux distro?
Just wondering out loud.
The gentoo guys (and girls) have released 2004.2 for the x86, AMD64, HPPA, and SPARC. You can read the information page here or go straight to the mirrors."
/.'ers
Ooh! show me these Linux-loving females!
posted with utmost respect for female
Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
now you can get most of the software in binary form too (using emerge).
Not that it matters, gentoo bashers will say anything to sound smart.
I have just spent three days trying to do:
scripts/bootstrap.sh
on my EPIA 800 and it says:
Can't download rc-scripts-1.4.8.tar.bz2
arrrgghhh!
and now this!
so I can finish my damn Gentoo 2004.2 compile sometime before the heat death of the Universe!
It will be interesting to see how well the Gentoo documentation is updated to follow this release. A big beef I had with Gentoo when I last tried installing it was the documentation was only partially synced with the 2004 series so some commands didnt work quite the way one expected them to. Additionally, installing Gentoo more or less dictates that you have two computers - the one your installing Gentoo on and the system you use to browse the Gentoo forums and Install instructions to deal with gotchas and unexpected behavior.
Personally I like Linux but I wouldn't suggest Gentoo unless you like having to discover how to do even the simplest of tasks (just how many bloody kernels to choose from now?). Not to mention that it seemed last time to only have a portage setup for Apache 2.0 and not Apache 1.3 which IMHO is a big no-no in my book due to PHP threadsafe issues (okay, color me paranoid but when was the last time you looked at how many bloody libraries are encapsulated in your PHP install?). Slackware or OpenBSD are the way to go if you asked me....
This is wonderful. The version numbers of the packages they point out really are very close to Fedora Core. I've used gentoo in the past and currently "had" to go with FC for expediency. There is a good community behind either distro.
I found this BitTorrent-Mirror that seems to have it. (I can't try it at the moment)
There are some configuration-type things that don't get updated by an 'emerge -uD world'. Sure, all of your packages are kept up to date, but for instance, Gentoo has moved from XFree86 to X.org. That change won't be made until you move from 1.4 to 2004.x. I once saw directions on how to make the switch, but lost track before I could do anything about it. So for the moment, I'm '-uD world' like you.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
The strenght of Gentoo Linux is that it does not really matter what version you are using. emerge sync and emerge -u world, wait a while and there: you are running the latest version. The install has not changed much, so this actually means nothing to us Gentoo users. You get the latest version whatever Live CD you use to install, only the pre-buildt GRP packages are different on new releases.
..try Gentoo today! It's excellent.
This is why you should try Gentoo today, it is excellent for both servers and desktops. Desktop users can choose to use the latest ("masked"), bleeding edge versions, while older stable packages should be preferred for production environments.
The Gentoo Portage tree has more packages in it's database than any other Linux distribution. The freedom to choose.
There is also a sweet front-end for Gentoo's portage called porthole. It allows you to search through the package database from a GUI GTK interface. You can browse the portage database online to find out how much software is available without installing Gentoo.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
When I last checked there weren't links to the torrents on the announcement and now I can't get to the site and see if they've changed that. So just to be sure here's the link.
I would love to be able to use linux more, I am taking a course in community college and my boyfriend was wonderful for helping me out with that but when I told him that I hated him developing for gentoo all the time (he even forgot out anniversary) and sitting at the computer all the time, things went from bad to worse, and we eventually split up. And I regret it because now I'm failing college!
So anyway, I've tried gentoo a lot but it seems to have the occasional problem and I can't make it burn CDs or sync with my ipod, so my tutor recommended SuSE, so perhaps I will try that.
I'm catholic and from Scotland originally, so I'm not really from a computing background (none of my family is working class you see) but it is interesting to learn about and I'm thinking linux is the best thing for learning web development, and gentoo especially when you get more advanced.
Sorry for my rambling :)
--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
(I know: biting the troll, just cant help it)
Dumb f**k... just in case anyone is believing your FUD:
1. Running Linux isnt a punishment.
2. Gentoo doesnt "make you do everything by hand".
Now, get lost!
gentoo has ebuild for both apache 2.0 and apache 1.3
Installation document comes with Gentoo installation CD as well as text mode www-browser.
Extra computer is not needed although it might be helpful.
Well what I did on my first install was print out the notes and make a 'cheat sheet' of what I did. I've been using the cheat-sheet for a while now and it cuts my install from a day of reading and contemplating commands to a few hours of reading a book and making sure everything is still rolling on the terminal.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
http://www.tlm-project.org/torrents/gentoo/x86/200 4.2/
I had to dig on the forums to find this, but still.
Help. I still haven't finished compiling 2004.1!
RST
You don't need two computers to do this. The Gentoo liveCD comes with - if they haven't removed them - installation instructions and a cli browser(lynx), which is suitable for browsing the forums.
If you don't like cli you could always use another Linux distro or Knoppix LiveCD to install Gentoo...
A FEMALE USING LINUX?
It doesn't matter what install medium you use you will end up with an up to date system anyway. You don't even have to use a gentoo release to install gentoo, you can also use something like knoppix for example.
There's many of us wimmen using linux! We just keep it a secret and hide behind androgynous names so we aren't harassed by you nerdboys. Fight on, sisters!!!
...My ex-boyfriend was a big gentoo-lover, in fact he was a developer for it or something...
...I would love to be able to use linux more
...I can't make it burn CDs or sync with my ipod...
...I'm catholic and from Scotland...
Female: Check!
Possibly attracted to geeks: Check!!
Linux fan: Check!!!
Owns cool gadgets: Check!!!!
%^$Dependency problem^^$"£CORE DUMP...STOPPED...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
If you do an emerge -u world the config files get updated and it is no problem at all to install an up to date gentoo including x.org with the 1.4 Release.
I've been told SuSE makes things easy for the end user, I don't want to have to wait for things to build, and wonder why they don't build and give errors sometimes, and I seethe every time I see my ex's packages being updated (he maintained several, he once stayed up all night fixing one, some stupid gnome thing, and making a racket on this old IBM keyboard he had, which kept me awake all night).
Blah. Och well.
--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
If you don't like cli you could always use another Linux distro or Knoppix LiveCD to install Gentoo...
I'll vouch for that. I've done a Gentoo install from knoppix and its was beautiful, little konsole window there bootstrapping my new Gentoo system while I was browsing the web and playing frozen bubble in a knoppix desktop
TIAEAE!
PHP runs fine with Apache 2.0, just enable prefork to make it work the same as Apache 1.3.x with child daemons. Hell, if you are running fairly limited libraries in PHP you can get away without.
More info on Prefork at http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/prefork.html
There's probably some USE flag you can set to force a prefork build in Gentoo.
Still, i'm one of those odd people that prefer to roll their own Apache install.
Perhaps you would be so kind, as to read the parent of my post next time.
Thank you in advance.
rm /etc/make.profile /usr/portage/profiles/default-x86-2004.2 /etc/make.profile
ln -s
Thats it. The profile tells portage which packages to use. The only difference between gentoo releases are the new profile, and the GRP binary packages are rebuilt. Simple huh?
And I think computer *work* is working class, that's right. There's nothing wrong with being working class. But back home, people who work in computers (and here too) tend to be working class because it is a hard working and honest profession. I'd put them at upper working class, and perhaps some at lower middle class or even middle class. Working class means nurses, skilled labourers and craftsmen, programmers, middle class is more into the professions, maybe in the computer world this would relate to designers and architects, not just programmers.
Anyway, back home working class kids go to state schools and had spectrums and whatnot to learn from at night, but upper middle and upper class children tend to go to public school which is very expensive and aren't directed towards computers but rather for more shall-we-say "managerial" positions in life.
Working class kids go to school where they are asked questions like "compare and contrast these pieces by Shelley and Byron", but upper middle and upper class children go to schools where they are asked questions more like "You are Julius Caesar. You are invading Gaul. What do you do next?"
I'm not trying to sound snobby and superior at all - in fact the opposite, I like computers and want to learn more about them, and I have nothing against working class people at all, I respect them. But culturally speaking it really is very unusual for a girl of my background to become interested in computers, alright?
Love, Margot. x
--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
It's usually called /etc/profile.d/make.sh in which you export CFLAGS and the compiling options you wanted.
What is this nonsense about other OSes not being able to do this?
"We're breaking out the ramen noodles. . . "
"Really? Is it someone's birthday?"
Or just run through the handbook at www.gentoo.org, it's just type this, type that etc.
It's not like Gentoo are hiding anything. The documentation on the website does mention that it takes time to compile, especially if you're starting from a Stage 1 or Stage 2.
Look, I appreciate Gentoo isn't for everyone but it's just "another way of doing things" that makes the Linux community great to be a part of.
If you're going to use Gentoo to compile a standard KDE or Gnome system, you're probably better off using Mandrake or Fedora/Red Hat anyway.
Using Gentoo is mainly about installing only the software you want and (if you want to) optimising the compilation to make it run as fast as possible. In the longer term, a few "emerges" keep your system pretty much bleeding edge.
Like it or hate it, but just let people get on with it...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I've had better luck with 2004.0 than 2004.1. In fact, I couldn't get 2004.1 to even boot the 2.6 kernel on the live CD. But of course the beauty of gentoo is that it doesn't matter since you can always update your system at any time.
I recommend people do a stage 3 and install the binary packages if you're not sure of what optimizations. Then play around with cfflags and use flags and then recompile everything later on. Doing a stage 1 as a beginner is a waste of time because later on you'll find some important use flag you missed that could give you some performance. Of course, if you know what you're doing, then go for a stage 1 if you have the time. It took me about 24 hours to go from stage 3 to a kde environment.
The reason I recommend gentoo to people, however, is portage. Anyone on mandrake, fedora, or suse have at one time or another had to deal with RPM hell. Portage solves all that. And while people complain how it takes so long, it's not time spent hunting for packages and tarballs like if you want to install a package that one of those above mentioned distros does not have yet. So for example, before you go to sleep, you type "emerge mozilla-firefox" and when you wake up, you have firefox and it took all of two seconds on your part. It won't take all night of course, I'm just using that example to show how while it takes longer to compile packages, it takes just two seconds of your time.
As you can see on their forums, it is exclusively for Microsoft(C) Windows(R) XP(TM) Home AOL(R) Edition(TM) users.
Or, in their words, which they refer to as the l44t sp34k:
teh gnet00 r0x0rz!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, as you most certainly noted, this is only 'more or less' - I'd say actually less, in my particular account.
Actually, please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only problem I can think about that would keep you from being able to google or go to the gentoo forums is the DSL/cable/whatsoever configuration, and that is diagramed just at the beginning of the instalation for a reason.
From then onwards it's all a VT with links2, even (and in the first place, at least for me) for the instalation instructions.
The exception, of course, would be a PC without broadband. But in that particular setting I think gentoo would not be one's first option, because of its design.
O make me a mask
You're mostly right there, including humor. A lot of users who don't take open source software seriously and see it as "l33t" and use it to get respect from other newbies, sooner or later, end up using Gentoo, and sticking with it for hype value. Now, I use it on all my machines (even production), but more because it is easy to manage (long maybe, but not long enough to complain; even on my 1Ghz P3 gateway it took barely a few hours to get the system up to a full server), and also because of its design roots in BSDs which I love (which, yes, are falling back in standards).
Gentoo's second largest problem, in my opinion, is that you can either have stable and old or unstable (well, not really, rather uncompilable since it hasn't been molded to fit the rest of the portage tree yet) and new. Portage does allow you to override this per-package which works well enough, but is still tedious. The confusion of downgrades being upgrades under certain circumstances (when something gets masked 'tested' then back to 'untested' once it sets a few houses on fire) isn't that bad, either.
The largest problem is very clearly the LiveCDs. I have only ever had luck with 2004.0, with 2004.1 either not booting at all or finding new and exciting ways to misuse my very standard hardware. I'm not even going to try using 2004.2's LiveCD. Hell, all you need is any LiveCD or existing distribution, and find the stage* tarball for whatever is the latest and greatest, then pull that down and unpack it.
What is this about Xorg/Xfree being the default? There is no 'default' in a system that gives you a bare toolkit from which you can install. Even the most current portage tree appears to select xfree as a dependency if you lack X libraries, so you have to emerge xorg-x11 before any GUI-interested applications else you'll end up with XFree. Not that 90% of the user base will really care anyway.
Performance though, very few applications will show a visible performance difference between -O2 and -O3, or even -O1 and -O2, but -O1 over -O0 has almost always doubled code speed in the little synthetic tests I've done (by cycling real-world functional code over and over). As for instruction sets, pfft, only hand-coding in assembly is a proper method of using MMX and SSE, with the automated rubbish GCC creates being not much faster than portable i386 code. Of course if you're going to compile you may as well do it for your processor, just for that little 10% or so you might get in a synthetic bench.
What I find is that compilation under Gentoo, for some reason, always seems to take a very long time for anything (comparing with FreeBSD, even -CURRENT). However, the end result is that the software is visibly faster. This is almost certainly just be the glory of Linux 2.6 with ReiserFS and yadda yadda, but it's still there.
As for the idea of a system that patches and configures software for your needs (as per USE), that's very hard to disrespect. Even FreeBSD Ports with its extensive and very messy (coming from a BSD lover, too) makefile-specific options comes nowhere near. The idea of 'untested' packages is only sensible because so often new imports are broken and incompatible with other software, especially things that go in the base system. If they had a true base source tree like the BSDs do and maintained it properly, this wouldn't be a problem, but then it would also be a pain for developers to maintain.
Summary: good system, but often a pain to make work at all. When it works it works well, when it doesn't work you just want to install Debian or FreeBSD.
Sam ty sig.
Do what I did, just use one of those live cds like Knoppix or Morphix or whatever, you can install gentoo from there. Of course, it required that you either have a 2nd cd-rom drive to put the gentoo disc in while you're still running Knoppix.
passwd *password*
:)
ctrl+alt+F2 for links2 reading gentoo install book
ctrl+alt+f3 for irc free-node #gentoo
ctrl+alt+f1 for checking install
You just need to know hwo to use the multiple TTYs
summed up beautifully...these dolts are incapable of little else.
My feeling, with all due respect, are the opposite with regards to the system being difficult to get to work. I had more trouble on mandrake getting it to work properly. I see your point with the live cds, I couldn't get 2004.1 to work properly so I used 2004.0. I think the performace enhancement from compiling might be too small to notice. I think the real reason is after spending 36 hours compiling, most people just want to believe it's faster. I may be one of those people because my system feels a lot faster than from doing different cfflags and use flags. And as for xorg, when I installed the system, I installed xorg and then kde. I think if you just emerge kde, it will install xfree by default. Like you said, I don't care which x server I have as long as it works, I was just trying to plan for the future.
And with respect to your complaint that you get either an old or unstable system, I think that problem is a lot worse in other distros. Fedora is so bleeding edge it has so many problems while mandrake 10 ships with kde 3.2 and they don't offer updates for the free version (last I checked). I have a mixture of stable and arch packages so I'm in the middle on that. I haven't found it to be unstable though.
Because -Mach 03 gives a 70% performance increase.
"If you're going to use Gentoo to compile a standard KDE or Gnome system, you're probably better off using Mandrake or Fedora/Red Hat anyway."
Exactly. The problem is with every story on Gentoo(and even stories about other distros) we get to hear from Gentoo users who keeping pushing Gentoo as the best distro bar none. They usually make a statement about how rpm's suck, how they used to Mandrake or Suse but how lame that was compared to using Gentoo, and finally we get to hear over and over that Gentoo really is great for beginners if they can just read all of the documentation.
All distros have an army of supportors that post online saying that distro X is best. Gentoo happens to have a userbase that does this more then most as they are positive that easy to use distros like Mandrake and Fedora are overrated and not as good as Gentoo. And boy do they let us know that. What can I say? You reap what you sow.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
When do we get a Gentoo topic icon on Slashdot? Look at all of the out of date icons that are out there, but after 2 years we still don't have a Gentoo one?
/C/B -help
Sorry, but this has irked me for some time, especially since I think the Gentoo icon is one of the classiest, along with the Debian icon.
free ipod and free gmail!
I just bought the 2004.1 CDs!!!!!
Damn these dialup connections.
"I'm catholic and from Scotland originally, so I'm not really from a computing background"
How does either of those traits make one less likely to be "from a computing background"?
For that matter, how does being "working class" make one more likely? (unless one is so teddibly well-bred and silver-spooned, that one regards any activity of remotely non-posh utility as being "working class")
Okay, I don't know how to do it, but wouldn't it be great if we could have some open-network DISTCC farms to use in completing Gentoo builds?
... the "Gentoo DISTCC Open Net" project would be an interesting Sunday afternoon exercise ... for someone ...
I'm sure this would be something we can get running fairly easily, and see how well it works
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Most can't do USE="tiff -jpeg" for example. This is more important then CFLAGS IMHO. If you want to make sure your entire system is compile with/without support for something.
On the other hand, I tend to introduce new users to Mandrake or SuSE which are good systems for beginners and general desktop use. However, I've also had a couple of beginners follow the installation of Gentoo themselves and have managed to get most of the base system running without help, they've also been very happy with what they've learnt about Linux during the install process.
I haven't found the Gentoo community particularly vocal about it, the forums on the web site have a lot of good knowledgeable people in there and, sure, you have to do a lot of reading but you invariably find the answer you need.
By nature, I'm a tweaker - even on Windows installations for personal use, I strip out as much bloat as possible and endlessly tweak for performance just because I get a kick out of doing it.
The point is to try a few Linux distros and settle with one you like - end of story.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
So the way I see it, all I have to do is emerge sync and emerge system and then I'll have a 2004.2 system? I currently installed from 2004.1.
Annoyingly enouugh, I just wrote a CD for 2004.1 the other day.
Except when you try to emerge openoffice and wake up next morning to a screen that says:
I love portage, but hey, it does not work perfectly every time.
Linux - How to Install Gentoo via Floppies and Network Only Using Fedora Floppies
Hope this eases some download woes for someone...
http://tracker.netdomination.org/
So long as the install process detects Nvidia based on-board networks cards, I'll be happy.
Part of the fun is taking your time over installing the thing, but having to jump through more hoops when the Live CD has problems wasn't fun.
Bunch!
Suttree, a weblog about casual games development
Christ I hope you're joking. Or have a serious mental illness. Or both.
seems like you could just skip releases until such a time as it's really useful for you then, only do critical security minor changes. Pick-say-every third release minor variation instead of every single one.
I don't use gentoo, never tried it as all I have is a very old machine,the thought of weeks to install are.... well, it's not happening. I wouldn't bother with a binary version of what is touted as the ultimate source based, that would defeat the purpose of choosing that one, as that seems to go counter to the idea of compiling everything from source for maximum optimization. I use another binary version of linux, quite content with it. If I had another spare machine that was pretty new and powerful I would probably try it though, just for the heck of it.
Like I said, I don't know with gentoo source, maybe you should always stay as current as possible, I really don't know, but skipping versions seems at least theoretically possible, if you wish to always compile from source.
God, what a troll.
Reminds me of a queer professor I had who used to hang out on IRC.
How ghay
Not that there's anything wrong with that. But look at all these fools going for it.
he largest problem is very clearly the LiveCDs. I have only ever had luck with 2004.0, with 2004.1 either not booting at all or finding new and exciting ways to misuse my very standard hardware. I'm not even going to try using 2004.2's LiveCD. Hell, all you need is any LiveCD or existing distribution, and find the stage* tarball for whatever is the latest and greatest, then pull that down and unpack it. 2004.1 LiveCDs were definitely not good - and we know that. We worked for two months to get a functional 2004.2 LiveCD out the door. Of course, there are still bugs (as with any software), but I can honestly say that it is *much* more functional than any of its 2004.x predecessors. If you have any questions, or have some bugs to file, drop me a line.
Oh, man, I'm always behind the 8-ball on these things....
Yes; for shaving.
========
77 77 77 2e 6d 65 6c 76 69 6e 73 2e 63 6f 6d
Yeah, I can't argue with anything you said there, a lot of it is placebo tweaking... again, my primary reasons for Gentoo are high customizability and a FreeBSD-likeness I consider important (it's hard to go back to Windows-like distros after extensive BSD usage).
I don't think USE (except mmx/sse/3dnow flags) is meant to improve performance anyway, just streamline compilation and installation, and often options. It's a very good idea and is implemented very well. If you use Gentoo for nothing else, then for USE.
Performance seems to thrash FreeBSD (-STABLE and especially -CURRENT alike) for my desktop purposes, responsiveness is just unparalleled. Even Firefox starts in 0.5-1 second/s, a real achievement. In FreeBSD it would take a few seconds the first time then a second or two (on my best machine) subsequently. Armagetron appears to find exotic ways to mess up on my NVidia cards under Linux but properly under FreeBSD, but this might just be the evil NVidia driver. Boot times are good, a bit behind FreeBSD because journalled filesystems (I'm a ReiserFS worshipper) take more work, but are worth it for the fault tolerance. I hated losing and corrupting files in UFS, even with SoftUpdates.
One thing though, not really Gentoo so much as Linux itself, is that I have been finding ways in which a sufficiently broken client-side kernel can, without any more permission than an ability to send packets, confuse a server machine. I booted from a Gentoo LiveCD and pinging my gateway made its network interface ignore all packets for a minute or so, even from perfectly valid machines. This made NFS sessions drop out for a bit, luckily without any actual harm. This from gentoo-dev-sources which is meant to be a ridiculously robust kernel.
Sam ty sig.
Well then maybe it does deserve a try. What happened with 2004.1, though? I mean, the kernel versions themselves were fine on their own, but the ones patched and built for the CDs barely worked at all. 2004.0's smp kernel couldn't read from the second half of a hard disk in one of my machines, but that's the only problem I found with either of the 2004.0 kernels.
/ x86/ :)
ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com.au/pub/gentoo/releases
Ack, well, it looks like PlanetMirror still hasn't updated properly, the directory is there but it still denies permission. Good thing all my machines already run up-to-date Gentoo installs and so I have no pressing need for a new LiveCD
On a related note, can anyone testify to performance differences between framebuffered and vanilla? I noticed that framebuffered took ages to print every line, and since print calls are blocking, this meant the programs actually had to wait for this to be done before moving on, wasting a lot more time than relatively straight processing. Of course I should time this before basing a religion or major cult on it.
Sam ty sig.
"I'm catholic and from Scotland originally, so I'm not really from a computing background"
Agumentum ad absurdum. I'm catholic (ex) and from Scotland and a software engineer (have a degree and everything) and there are plenty of others. Why don't you call your boyfriend back, even if you don't want a relationship you may be able to patch things up enough so he can help you use your computer and keep from failing college.
Doesn't apply here. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=guys
See definition #2.
right, but it can be even faster if you make meta-notes from the install handbook. Also, the reason I use Gentoo is the same reason I use the notes, I've got a pretty serious setup, IMO, and I have to make a LOT of changes from the prescribed setup.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Sorry for the messed up first reply - something in my profile was wonky and it was giving firefox a headache ;)
What happened with 2004.1? Well, a lot of things did. We changed project managers, build tools, and procedure. Why? Well, Daniel was beginning to take a diminished role in the project so I had to step up and take over (a lot to learn there), we had no previous release building tool (which is why Daniel and I created Catalyst), and there was no formal procedure in place. So basically, .0 and .1 were both "starting from scratch" since we (releng) had no previous knowledge to build on.
As for your LiveCD problems - a lot of that was in the kernels (which should be fixed).
Try out http://gentoo.mirrors.pair.com/ - they are always fast and up-to-date ;)
Thanks for your questions!..and together we can emerge some love.
j/k if my wife reads this she'll kill me... please don't tell her... really!
I wonder if the LiveCD is any less worthless this time around? Oh wait... 2004.2 LiveCD still isn't availible from their site? /kicks dirt.
Nevermind.
I don't agree. If you use guys and girls in the same phrase, the context alters the general meaning of the word "guys"; here it clearly refers to males only.
what does cat means? is it a Unix command? an animal? a skilled sportsmen?
Context, context, context.
Saying guys and girls is not politically correct because it conveys the idea that women are somewhat childish as compared to men. Children are less developed than adults and are not expected to be mature to make important decisions by themselves (I am against those assumptions too by the way, but it's a long subject).
If you say boys and girls it is ok because you are giving us both the same status; it sounds cool and I consider it to be politically correct.
guys and gals is also politically correct but I don't like the way it sounds.
By the way, I am a guy and I care about this not only for defending women; sexism is also oppresive towards men.
Fellows geeks, have you ever felt under pressure to do things that you really didn't want you to do but other expected you to do because you are a man?
Dad: hit the ball Ryan!!!! god da** it.
Geek Son: but Dad, Star Trek is on.
Dad: KILLLLL'EM, I want to see blood gushing you p***y!!!!
Geek Son: but dad, I'm about to finish my program to display a rotating pentagon!!!, I want to go back to the keyboard!!!
See my point boys??? . . . and girls?
S
Try using dispatch-conf and rcs. I'll bet you used etc-update. Dispatch-conf does a much better job of merging trivial changes. Out of 200+ config files that changed on my last emerge -uDv world, I had to look at 5. Plus, after rcs is setup, there are revisions kept of each merge so that you can go back to an old one if the new one is fubar.
wouldn't it be great if we could have some open-network DISTCC farms to use in completing Gentoo builds?
There are no publicized farms that I know of yet, but setting up a host list among friends and office PCs is quite easy under Gentoo. The Gentoo DISTCC Documnetation is a good place to start. This will even work at the bootstrapping stage.
Then you just chroot to it and start working; ex:The advantage here as you can just do this from a root prompt in an xterm, so you can read the online installation docs in your browser as you are doing it. Pretty nifty.
Same here. At first I wasn't sure what it was, but now that you mention it... those eyebrows just creep me out.
And why not make RCS required?
I tried downloading and building 2004.1 last week. There is [was?] a silly bug in coreutils preventing a simple
# emerge system
yes, there are work arounds but I want MORE!
my guess is this is the lag in the sparc32 LiveCD.
this may be fixed (disclaimer to prevent flaming). i don't know yet. i'll have to try download and build tonight.
You still suck dick, you filthy alcoholic child molestor.
http://torrents.gentoo.org/torrents/misc/x86/2004. 2/livecd/ for the x86 torrent!
.-=Wit is educated insolence=-. -Aristotle
are all of you kids using your parents old 233mhz to run/compile gentoo? stop & think...you're compiling an entire system FROM SCRATCH & you bitch that it takes a few hours. what the hell were you all expecting? i know most of you have been working w/ linux for quite some time & should be used to compiling a few programs.
You don't have to use text mode browser. In most cases gentoo livecd boots into framebuffer, so you can use "fb" driver for "links" (by far more advanced browser than lynx in my opinion). Use "links --driver fb www.gentoo.org" on some virtual console to browse the site and forums. You can't usually install gentoo without internet connection and if you do, you usually already know what you are doing.
So I have to wonder... why even have them as .xml pages in the URI request, when they aren't XML and they aren't even valid HTML.
False elitism.
These pages aren't generated by an XSLT transformation from XML to HTML (and if they were, they certainly wouldn't be using a .xml handler in the doctype or URI handling).
Please, to all the Gentoo folks still learning HTML in their second-level grade school class, learn to do things right. Make your pages accessible, validate them, and don't try to fake your elitism, without the proper skills to back it up.
Well, I don't mean to sound like a dick, but I sincerely agree with the "gentoo zealots" then. I have tried other distros and I find gentoo to be the best for my needs. Before I used gentoo, I was in the same boat as you in that these people pissed me off when they'd rant and rave about gentoo. Don't worry, I'm not going to say "you should try it because I said so" I'm just going to say it IS all it's cracked up to be.
What if you aren't already using Gentoo? Which release you have does matter. This is the situation I'm in. I went from Gentoo to fedora core 2 for kicks and now I want to move back. Thing is 2004.1 doesn't support my NIC (3c509. How the hell do you not support 3c509?). The module isn't even there in the LiveCD's resources. Even if I did a stage 3 install I still wouldn't be able to run emerge.
Ugh. So I'm downloading 2004.2 and I'm going to burn a CD with 3c509.o on it just in case. Seems like kind of a waste to use a whole CD-R for that. But for those who don't know to do that installing gentoo could turn a functioning web/email box (what I'm using this box for) into a non-functioning one.
"Let him go, Ralph. He knows what he's doing." --Otto Mann (simpsons)
dispatch-conf with rcs is a pretty cool setup, but 90% of the time etc-update works just fine. I haven't really found dispatch-conf to be all that much better at merging config changes over etc-update's "r" and "l" approach.
but IMHO Gentoo could really use a decent installer.
gentoo installer project
GLIS
gentoo anaconda
There's nothing better to stress test the memory, disk, and processor of a new machine like Gentoo. OK, maybe a scientifically engineered burn-in test would guarantee better coverage (especially of the floating point unit) but if all you really want to do is make sure that if anything is going to fail it fails before the warranty is up, gentoo's great... install a full desktop, and if anything's going to break, it will probably break before you're done. Happened to me on my last laptop... it died a week after I bought it... after I was just finishing up my Gentoo install:)
Sorry for carrying this offtopic, but are the USE-Flag defaults and GRP USE-Flags in sync on 2004.2? This is a real showstopper - emerge --depclean on a fresh install kills coreutils and others, rendering the system pretty useless and requiring booting from a liveCD and some work to get it up and functional again ....
bug 48195
You could just use a Knoppix CD to install, that's what I've always done. Nice webrowser to use to surf slashdot and the forums while compiling, and you can use some GUI tools to get your drive setup.
...to those not already using it.
we enlightened ones simply
emerge sync
emerge -uDv world
emerge -v depclean
revdep-rebuild -v
dispatch-conf
every other day or so and we are up to date.
Much as I lurve Gentoo, there is absolutely no need, ever, to announce releases because they are meaningless. If a new architecture has been added; thats newsworthy. A new cool feature to portage. But otherwise it is unimportant, when you wise up and switch, just download the latest stable image and start from there.
And for those "compiling takes to long" whiners; you can use binary packages just as easily (moreso IMHO) as debian. That and on a modern (P4 / AMD64) system, compiling a fully functional desktop with openoffice will happily complete overnight. Start after lunch one day; spend about 20 minutes; come back 2 hours later, build your kernel and reboot and start to install packages (maybe 15 minutes) then leave. Next morning your system is in full, optimised, working glory and you know EXACTLY what is installed and EXACTLY what daemons are running because you explicitly installed and activated them.
err!
jak
and girls
I believe that's girl.
I have discovered a truly marvelous
Which works perfectly when the machine has Internet access...
"X.org-X11 is now the default XServer (current version is 6.7.0-r1).
That says it all. Buh-bye, XFree86!
"Klaatu, verada, necktie!" -Ash
OMG! It's funny! Laugh!
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
> Well what I did on my first install was print out
:)
> the notes and make a 'cheat sheet' of what I did.
Yeah, on my first Gentoo install, I did this too. Keeping notes on what I did helped me out alot.
Installing Gentoo wasn't easy at first. But, after getting the filesystem and basic stuff installed, a kernel built and grub configured to boot right, I was off and running er emerging.
Early on, I got SVGALIB going as well as links browser. Also, got BitchX fired up.
If you have problems... just ask the helpful people at: irc.freenode.net #gentoo they are a great bunch of folks.
Haven't had any problems since. I'm happy as a clam and not at all regretful of my decision to use Gentoo.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
I have this small old Thinkpad iSeries notebook that come with Win98. I installed Slackware and used that for a number of years. Now I am Back On Windows
... cant remember well. After about 7 month of not using the PC (and booting to check if the HDD problem was still there...) I tryed once again. The HDD (which before made all kind of exitic and espastic noises) wen't ok and booted. I figured how to fix the stuff that got "lost and foound", check the HDD for bad blocks. Everything was fine 100%. So I decide to become up to date. First, the new tree is now huge, and had all kind of resets before a full sucessfull rsync. Can't it just resume (I don't like rsync!)...So everything was going well, after ...coreutils! ... so I decided not to rescue the old Gentoo...and after 4 days in this celeron 400 and slow link (64 kbs) I am still compiling gnome... :-) ... I think this is my largest post ever...why? I can't see what I wrote at the begining...remember: I am still compiling gnome and going through Links (at least It was a one liner to get this running...Gentoo has many advantages)! (now that I think, my rant about QT Extras could be QuickTime extras...much relate apropriate than the toolkit...)
(TM) (Work Notebook) but installed gentoo on the Thinkpad. The problems I had I don't know for sure if they are Gentoo related...
1) After a while (a year?) with Gentoo, the HDD died. It refused to boot anything, and gave tons of errors / halts / madness under Gentoo. Win98 worked fine though
I was lost, no cp, mv or cat command working fine. No df showing any sign of saneness...Lost cause, i did try many think, but NOTHING could compiled on it (remember you need the coreutils). Of course, gentoo wanted to enforce an mtime something, and the network wouldn't boot, and system should not shutdown gracefully. It really showed the Gentoo disadvantages. It WANTED the mtime to be the same, though it could not because of the coreutils or glibc or gcc2.3 fuckup.
Finally, I gave up...loaded Win98, transfered Stage 3, boot Gentoo (yuck), untared it, and chrooted. Everything was fine there
Now, reinstalling Gentoo was a breathe, but I lacked vim, I couldn't find the kernel. And I don't have a burner. So I think it was not an easy setup...Gentoo is not ready yet I believe. I like it, but would NEVER use it in production, or recomend it to anyone that expects something solid (failproof). It's too prune to errors. I wanted to start with x-org, but it wold insist in using both (Xfree + X.Org), so I had to read how to force it to NEVER use XFree the hard way (linking stuff to etc, telling it to slot XFree...) It was a little pain (though not much, I knew what to do, and knew Gentoo).
But why am I still on Gentoo? Well, Portage. I don't have time to baby sit a Slackware system anymore (I loved slackware!). I think it has great potential, but need a lot of polish. Sure, it's great when it works, but many times it does not (for example, i had lost a day because some package had a different md5 from a mirror, and while that security is a must, I did lost the compile day).
Anyway, I think it's one of the nicest ways to keep a system up to date. Only wishes would be: more testing done before publishing updates that do not work. Less granularity ( I do not want to get cpam duplicated for example!), less "dependancies", even using USE flags gets you much more things than you asked. I told it NO QT and NO KDE, yet the win32 codex downloaded some QT-extras, sigh. And the more important one (maybe it's there an I haven't seen it) DONT FORCE ME TO UPDATE EVERYTHING. If glibc is fine (no holes) or gcc is fine, ask me whether I want to upgrade it or not. I want everything that fixes security bugs, or is a real dependency. Gentoo seems to want to force you to update everything for no reason, adding lots of unnecesary potential trouble for the user...and consuming lots of valuable bandwith (not only mine, but mirror's ones as well). That's it, I said it
unfinished: (adj.)