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So what about automotive repair manuals? I used to own a service station and for years had to pay big money for repair information to fix the cars people would bring us to fix. This information is considered to be factual information but yet the car manufacturers make millions selling this info to companies every year- and they in turn sell it to independant automotive shops(like i used to own). according to this ruling, if this information was re-written it could be used by others as long as it didn't follow the same sequence as the original manual- does this sound correct or is it because the information is based on a product(their cars)?

Hmm Check Engine. OK.:opens hood: Yep, got an engine, Check!

Cant remember the comedian, but oh well. Seriously though, certain brands of cars(cough cough Ford) are known for having the check engine light come on when a sensor in the car is being pissy, maybe cause it was cold or your wheel was slipping, even if there is nothing wrong with your engine. Once it comes on, the only way to turn it off is to take it to a mechanic who will charge you 60$ to reset the light and tell you he doesnt see any problems. Or you can just disconnect the battery for minute, but you lose your radio station presets. I don't see why this is such a big deal though. Seems like its pretty easy to get a code reader [patriot.net]. Hell the base model is less than 200$, might be good to get one just to play with. Not to mention all the codes can be looked up right here [actron.com]. For 25$ a year you can even use AllData [alldata.com] to diagnose problems with your car based on the codes, and be updated on service and recall bulletins. Interesting note at the bottom though: Note: Currently, information is available for Model Years 1982 to 2002. 2003 Model Year information is scheduled to be released this winter. Unfortunately, information for Honda, Acura and BMW is not available to consumers through ALLDATA DIY by request of the manufacturers. sth

It's not always about the user doing something wrong. I think you're closed to the concept the the OS could be doing something wrong. I am a sysadmin and manage over 300+ computers with Windows installed on them. The number of reinstalls I do for Windows is very low considering those numbers. But, for the 50+ *nix machines I also admin, I do even fewer reinstalls percentage wise. In fact, I have only ever done and OS reinstall on a *nix box because I was installing a different OS/distro.

I am not one of those mindless guys that says Windows is not "stable", I am one of those guys that says I am sick of coming into work and at least once a month finding a machine that hasn't been touched in a month (except for critical updates and virus scan def updates) in a BSOD and BSODs on reboot. I have never had this happen on a *nix machine and I have more experience with Widows sysadmin than I do with *nix so blaming it on in-experience with Windows is not an option here.

Your blanket statement that says "you're doing something wrong... it's as simple as that" is ignorant and absent minded to say the least. Everyone who had a Fiero that had an engine fire must have been doing something wrong. Nevermind that after a rash of problems, those Fieros got recalled over 6 years after the first one rolled off the assembly line.

http://www.alldata.com/recall/make/Pontiac/Fiero.h tml

While it's wrong to mindlessly place the blame on the OS, it's just as wrong to mindlessly place the blame on the user too.

... you just have to pay for it. One place you can get this sort of stuff, off the top of my head, is ALLDATA. There's many others, I'm sure.

The info is out there and many of the car companies do indeed offer it. They just don't much advertise it. They're too busy making cars to be selling information about them. Don't chalk this up to malice so fast, is what I'm saying. Mark it down as stupidity instead. It seems more likely.

Unfortunately certain manufacturers (Honda and BMW) have demanded alldata cease releasing their service bulletins to consumers. See the message at the bottom here, or just try signing up will alldata for a Honda, Acura, or BMW car. That's just pure control greed.

You can still see the titles, but not the text. And the titles are usually ambiguous.

That's why they buy the specs, service bulletins, repair information, etc from this company.

Hmm Check Engine. OK. :opens hood: Yep, got an engine, Check!

Cant remember the comedian, but oh well. Seriously though, certain brands of cars(cough cough Ford) are known for having the check engine light come on when a sensor in the car is being pissy, maybe cause it was cold or your wheel was slipping, even if there is nothing wrong with your engine. Once it comes on, the only way to turn it off is to take it to a mechanic who will charge you 60$ to reset the light and tell you he doesnt see any problems. Or you can just disconnect the battery for minute, but you lose your radio station presets. I don't see why this is such a big deal though. Seems like its pretty easy to get a code reader. Hell the base model is less than 200$, might be good to get one just to play with. Not to mention all the codes can be looked up right here. For 25$ a year you can even use AllData to diagnose problems with your car based on the codes, and be updated on service and recall bulletins. Interesting note at the bottom though: Note: Currently, information is available for Model Years 1982 to 2002. 2003 Model Year information is scheduled to be released this winter. Unfortunately, information for Honda, Acura and BMW is not available to consumers through ALLDATA DIY by request of the manufacturers.

I recently ran into something somewhat similar. I have an older Acura Legend that has had a couple of nagging problems I've been trying to track down. First is a ticking sound from somewhere within the mass of emissions-control components. The other was an occasional failure of the air conditioning to cool.

Anyway, I was doing some searching on Google and Google Groups, trying to see if someone had been down either of these paths before. I ended up, through an Acura enthusiasts site, at Alldata, a mechanics' and do-it-yourself'ers online technical reference subscription site.

Alldata had a list of Technical Service Belletins (TSBs) for my car -- these are notices sent from the manufacturer to dealers notifying them of, let's say "anomalies", in their product to be aware of. Sure enough, one was titled "BUZZING FROM EMISSIONS CONTROL BOX" and another was titled "A/C INTERMITTENTLY BLOWS WARM AIR". Jackpot!

All I had to do now was subscribe to Alldata for a (relatively) measly $25 a year to read the full text of the TSB. But wait! It turns out that of the world's car companies, Honda (who makes Acuras) and BMW (you know what they make) do not allow their TSBs to be distributed to the owners of their products.

I called Acura's toll-free number and complained, and sure enough, they said they only provide and authorize distribution of TSBs to dealers. Seems Honda likes to keep secret what they know is wrong with their cars, giving their dealers an advantage and making owners and independent mechanics suffer along rediscovering what's wrong with Honda's shoddy products.

Anyway, fortunately, I discovered an excellent service, Taylor Automotive Tech-Line which is a kind of a pay-per-incident tech support for mechanics and others. A simple web form and $20 later, and they emailed me TIFFs of the "secret" TSBs. Both of which were exactly what was wrong with my car!

Turns out the air conditioning problem was caused by a circuit board chock full of cold solder joints that had cracked. Ten minutes with a soldering iron and fresh solder corrected that manufacturing defect. The clicking sound was diagnosed in less than five minutes with the help of the TSB and fixed by replacing a $59 chunk of plastic (a "Constant Vacuum Control Valve").

Taylor Auto Tech's motto, by the way, is "We Fill In The Cracks On The Information Highway". Thankfully, someone is.

I recently ran into something somewhat similar. I have an older Acura Legend that has had a couple of nagging problems I've been trying to track down. First is a ticking sound from somewhere within the mass of emissions-control components. The other was an occasional failure of the air conditioning to cool.

Anyway, I was doing some searching on Google and Google Groups, trying to see if someone had been down either of these paths before. I ended up, through an Acura enthusiasts site, at Alldata, a mechanics' and do-it-yourself'ers online technical reference subscription site.

Alldata had a list of Technical Service Belletins (TSBs) for my car -- these are notices sent from the manufacturer to dealers notifying them of, let's say "anomalies", in their product to be aware of. Sure enough, one was titled "BUZZING FROM EMISSIONS CONTROL BOX" and another was titled "A/C INTERMITTENTLY BLOWS WARM AIR". Jackpot!

All I had to do now was subscribe to Alldata for a (relatively) measly $25 a year to read the full text of the TSB. But wait! It turns out that of the world's car companies, Honda (who makes Acuras) and BMW (you know what they make) do not allow their TSBs to be distributed to the owners of their products.

I called Acura's toll-free number and complained, and sure enough, they said they only provide and authorize distribution of TSBs to dealers. Seems Honda likes to keep secret what they know is wrong with their cars, giving their dealers an advantage and making owners and independent mechanics suffer along rediscovering what's wrong with Honda's shoddy products.

Anyway, fortunately, I discovered an excellent service, Taylor Automotive Tech-Line which is a kind of a pay-per-incident tech support for mechanics and others. A simple web form and $20 later, and they emailed me TIFFs of the "secret" TSBs. Both of which were exactly what was wrong with my car!

Turns out the air conditioning problem was caused by a circuit board chock full of cold solder joints that had cracked. Ten minutes with a soldering iron and fresh solder corrected that manufacturing defect. The clicking sound was diagnosed in less than five minutes with the help of the TSB and fixed by replacing a $59 chunk of plastic (a "Constant Vacuum Control Valve").

Taylor Auto Tech's motto, by the way, is "We Fill In The Cracks On The Information Highway". Thankfully, someone is.

You can get the same 'shop manual' plus service bulletins, maintenance schedules, and other things via the web from AllData. It's a subscription service, so depending on how long you keep your vehicle, it may cost more than the one time cost of the manual from the dealer (if they will sell it to you), but it will be updated when the manufacturer releases new information.