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I used to consider RTS games to be among my top favorite genres, maybe even #1. But it's gotten to the point where they're ruled by the twitch gamers, just like FPS games (which have been among my least favorite genres). WC3 is the main RTS I play right now, and in normal games I really suck bad. So I tend to end up playing custom games, mostly Tower Defence maps.

The problem I have is that the RT is overruling the S - the Real Time nature of the game means that you don't have enough time to work on a long-term strategy, because you have to defend against immediate threats. But because multi-player is such an important feature to have in mass-market games, it's hard to do away with Real Time, because Turn Based Strategy games are more difficult to correctly implement multiplayer, not on a technical level, but on a "pleases most players" level - you don't want to allow one player to slow down the game for all the other players, but you don't want to rush anyone, either. Also, Turn Based Strategy seem to have this "obsolete/inferior" rap going against them compared with Real Time Strategy, which they really don't deserve.

I really liked how Majesty removed the twitch-gamer advantage, by removing the low-level control of individual units. I'd probably play Majesty more than WC3, except that WC3 is more popular with my friends.

Fervus and Krypta together... a match made in heaven... or was it hell?

.:|Jon|:.

P.S. That's Fervus, the temple in Majesty, not Fruvous as in Moxy Fruvous ;-)

Chicken and egg. What comes first?

Well, there are others besides Loki around.

Came across an announcement on the Majesty Web site that Linux Game Publishing would be porting Majesty over to Linux.

Granted. The release was from January, but one can dream... and this still isn't an 'original' but rather an incredibly delayed port... but still...

Chicken and egg. What comes first?

Well, there are others besides Loki around.

Came across an announcement on the Majesty Web site that Linux Game Publishing would be porting Majesty over to Linux.

Granted. The release was from January, but one can dream... and this still isn't an 'original' but rather an incredibly delayed port... but still...

Majesty - a new twist on the old RTS & Sim genre.

If anyone has read the story how Unreal was made, they would see the why OSS doesn't work well for game development. (They were scattered all across the country, before they were moved together in Canada)

There are a few things standing in the way of OSS games before they will match the quality (art/content/code) of commerical games:

o) You need programmers, artists, designers, managers in face to face communication. Virtual whiteboards, remote mouse control are ad hoc solutions. You need to literally be able to point specificaly what needs to be changed in the game.

o) Money. How many OSS games have cinematics? Granted you don't cinematics to have a game, but this leads me into my next point.

o) Time. It takes 2 years of a TEAM of people, working day in, day out, to produce a game. OSS is done "after hours" when people come home. At that rate, it would take the same number of people YEARS to have the same quality ! Artists spend weeks 9-5 working on just ONE model/texture. How is an OSS artist going to support himself for that month? (See point above)

o) Dedication/Boredom. Games are, for the most part, one-time play throughs. Compare that to something to an OS, editor, daemon, etc, that gets used over and over again. Ask any QA department after a game is "gold" (shipped to the public.) They never want to see the game again. It takes a LOT of dedication to "finish" making game.

Remeber, the subject is "doesn't work well". I disagree with the assertion that games under OSS will *never* rival the commerical offerings, but I do agree that OSS games will be far and few that even come close to commercial quality.

Sure we have games like FreeCiv, RPGs, but any games like Grim Fandago, or Monkey Island ?

OSS for *SOME* games sort of works, but for the majority, unfortunaly OSS just isn't a viable solution.

*shrugs*

But what do I know, I'm just a 3D game developer...

--
Tired of RTS and Sim games? How about a new genre!

> It seems to me that the games you see today are all rehashes of older games. Hence the categories of games (RPG,RTS,FPS,etc).

Except when someone comes out with an orginal, fun, RTS+Sim hybrid title, no-one buys it!

> It seems to me that the games you see today are all rehashes of older games. Hence the categories of games (RPG,RTS,FPS,etc).

Except when someone comes out with an orginal, fun, RTS+Sim hybrid title, no-one buys it!

As long as there are people around, there will be games. How long have Chess, Go, and even Gambling been around for ? For over a 1,000 years, or more.

It's true, a lot of games are just "the same game with nicer visuals". i.e. How far have driving games progressed? From Atari's Stunts up to the latest EA's "Need for Speed".

Now I don't see too many people playing Quake 1 CTF / ThunderWalker / Team Fortress / Mega-TF because the "majority" of gamers have moved onto newer games (which may or may not be better ;-) Old games don't die, they just become less popular. I see the same thing in the retro-gaming scene.

What new games ARE doing are becoming cross-genre experiences. e.g.
Majesty is a nice mix of Sim, RTS, and RPG.
Dungeon Siege is a sweet mix of RPG+Action. Even Drakan is a mix to a limited extent.

Part of the problem that we dont' see more new genres, is because of sales. When "gamers" snap up 2 million copies of Diablo 2, which is a just a rehash (allthough fun game!) of Diablo 1, what incentive is there for smaller developers to create a "new" game, when sales can barely even reach 100,000.
i.e. Thief was a interesting twist and great innovative game, but that didn't help Looking Glass Studios from running out of money.

We'll continue to see new games. It's just getting harder and harder to do.

If you want to check out an orginal RTS+RPG blend of gameplay,
check out: Majesty

> try a game from a different genre for once, you might be positively surprised

You mean, like Majesty a nice blend of RTS+RPG ;-)

> The Computer Games industry is filled with clones and rehashed ideas. There is very little new out there.

You might want to take a look at Majesty
The genre is "Fantasy Sim" which in this case means a cross between a RTS and a RPG.

Cheers

> In short, there will always be assholes abusing the system.

Agreed. I mentioned this in another post: People can be jerks within ANY set of game rules, which I think is part of the problem. :-(

Is there a solution? I don't think so. Whatever rules you do provide, someone, somewhere, WILL exploit it, or figure out a way to annoy other players with it.

> P.S. I develop online games professionally.

Small world. I'm a 3d game programmer at www.cyberlore.com

Designer Dragon has some interesting articles on online games: