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We're still seeing the effects of the blasted internet bubble when stocks went sky-high on nothing but pipe dreams. Well it aint going to be a recession until the market drops below 1995 levels, where it finally broke the 4000 mark on Feb 23, 1995 according to http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/index.cfm?event=showavgstats

I really love how people will mark anything with which they don't agree as a Troll.

Take a Look, most Dow indices (and every major index) is/are up today. Big surprise, of course, after a huge drop.

I totally agree with you that the market isn't truly free.

A company or industry that's doing well can try to extract concessions from politicians (DMCA, antitrust wrist-slaps, telcom regulation, etc) and a company that's not doing well can generate political pressure to save jobs. And the former annoys me greatly, as I can tell it annoys you.

But I find it hard to dismiss the sense that there is a "mostly free" market out there, having watched closely billion-dollar companies fall (SGI), and from a distance seen others just get lost (Kodak) or shift their core activity to avoid a lingering death (IBM). The market may not be truly free, but it is a harsh mistress.

I can't find a full list of companies kicked off the Dow Jones (just 1999, 2004, 1895), but big companies even with their vast political influence cannot succeed when the market says "no thanks" to paying the hoped-for-nicely-profitable amount for their products.

--LP

Well, first we should correct one thing. Microsoft isn't the biggest company in the world. Perhaps they were the fastest growing, but in terms of size, IBM dwarfs them, and they're not the only one. Based on revenue, at least 46 other companies are bigger than Microsoft. IBM is #8, and of course, Walmart is #1. If you want to talk in terms of market cap, then GE is #1.

Jhon has already dissected your points, so I'd only like to point out how laughable your response to him is -- in your view we're not supposed to take the Commerce Department's own numbers because they're ``the man'' or something, but any lefty think tank you stumble on must be telling The Truth.

That doesn't even pass the laugh test.

Even more to the point, Jhon has shown that UCLA (hardly a bastion of right-wing ideology) had projected (accurately) the Clinton recession as early as December 2000, based on the contraction which had already occured in the previous quarter. Even if you believe Bush `caused' the recession, to assert that that negative growth, which began in 2000Q3, and continued in 2001 even before the day of Bush's inauguration, was somehow caused by Bush is laughable. Truly laughable.

Your attempt to blame `fear of Bush' for these stock market contractions is even more laughable. Looking at the Dow's historical performance, we can see that:

• The Dow rose on news of Bush's election, at the start of November 2000, but fell drastically as the election was challenged in court later that month
• The Dow rose on the news that Gore's attempt to steal the 2000 election had failed, in December 2000
• Before September 11, under Bush's hand, the Dow had almost returned to pre-Clinton-recession levels, but dove after 9/11
• The Dow rose again when Bush received the largest midterm election win of any President in the history of the US, in November 2002
• The Dow rose again when Bush's party made major gubernatorial gains in November (not March, js7a) 2003

And then, as if you were concerned that you had not yet made yourself look sufficiently ridiculous, you assert that the decline in the stock market from 2000 through 2002 (also starting on Clinton's watch, though you previously ridiculed the idea that Clinton might be to blame for the recession from which Bush recently drove a stunning recovery) was ``the cause'' of the Clinton recession -- as if this causality could only flow in one direction.

So again, I'd say you've already shown your unseriousness to those reading this thread.

Good day.

Can I point out something to you:

The Dow Jones Index 1990-1999

The Dow Jones Index 2000-2009

Please note the current US administration is proudly featured over the top of the chart.

Here's another good one: The NASDAQ

The NASDAQ from Oct 97 - Sept 03.

Our economy was driven into the ground by two things: 1. 9/11 2. The war on Iraq. If you notice, the economy started to recover after 9/11 but then the decision to go to "war" in Iraq and driven the economy down even further.

Can I point out something to you:

The Dow Jones Index 1990-1999

The Dow Jones Index 2000-2009

Please note the current US administration is proudly featured over the top of the chart.

Here's another good one: The NASDAQ

The NASDAQ from Oct 97 - Sept 03.

Our economy was driven into the ground by two things: 1. 9/11 2. The war on Iraq. If you notice, the economy started to recover after 9/11 but then the decision to go to "war" in Iraq and driven the economy down even further.

Let's not forget that the economy is in the crapper.

Falicy. Truth is, the unemployment rate is only at 6% which is close to the average since World War II (average I believe in 5.8%)

In fact, in 1997 when the jobless rate was at 4.8% (which is actually very good), the DJIA was at about 8100 points. That's not far off from what it was this morning as I looked at it (before market open, 8053).

Oh... and don't blame George Bush on the decline. In 2000, when Bill Clinton was still president, the DJIA dropped nearly 2000 points. In the two years following, it has dropped another 2000 points. The single largest drop in the economy since the dotcom era occured under the final year of the Clinton presidency. While, in the two years following, it dropped a similar amount.

Let's not forget that the economy is in the crapper.

Falicy. Truth is, the unemployment rate is only at 6% which is close to the average since World War II (average I believe in 5.8%)

In fact, in 1997 when the jobless rate was at 4.8% (which is actually very good), the DJIA was at about 8100 points. That's not far off from what it was this morning as I looked at it (before market open, 8053).

Oh... and don't blame George Bush on the decline. In 2000, when Bill Clinton was still president, the DJIA dropped nearly 2000 points. In the two years following, it has dropped another 2000 points. The single largest drop in the economy since the dotcom era occured under the final year of the Clinton presidency. While, in the two years following, it dropped a similar amount.