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Diesels run like shit and pollute like crazy until they heat up, typically about 5 minutes.

[...] I'd never heard that particular argument against diesel hybrids before. Do they "run like shit and pollute like crazy" even worse than gasoline engines (because those do that too)?

WAY worse than gasoline engines. DRAMATICALLY worse. The thick clouds of black smoke aren't there on gasoline engines unless you've got an oil leakdown problem, and you can literally smell the higher percentage of unburned hydrocarbons.

I suggest you cite a source for your "diesel engine warm-up" argument and add it to the Wikipedia entry, since it mentions no such problem.

That would be too much trouble, besides, by the time I find a great source, someone will probably have solved the problem :)

I don't suggest that it's an unsurmountable problem, but there ARE serious problems with it, mostly that until the engine has been run long enough to warm up, which takes substantially longer than with gasoline engines, the emissions are really horrible. It will be interesting to see how long it takes diesel cats to heat up, though. There's also the option of a preheated catalytic converter, but that requires a lot of energy and adds weight, so I'm not sure how good of a tradeoff that really is.

One company (eCyule) made a prototype diesel-electric hybrid motorcycle; I figure the smaller the motor is, the better it works, but there's still warm-up time and poor initial emissions even on TDIs which go down to what, 1.8 liter or so? Also, you need much more displacement with a diesel to get performance that mimics that from gasoline, or you need a turbo, which adds complexity to an already-complicated situation. I still think hybrids are silly in most situations.

I had the DX kit from ZAP for several years when I was at college in San Francisco. I had a number of interesting experiences.

I opted for the dual battery kit because the claims of distance on a charge were optimistic by about a factor of two. I'm sure if you were on some ultralight bike riding on perfectly flat roads at low speed you could achieve the rated numbers, but in the real world cranking up twin peaks with both you and the motors straining for all you're worth it was alot shorter.

The motor will become less efficient as it heats up. It will heat up as it has to provide more torque, so it will usually quit right on the steepest hill in your journey about the time you've become too tired to pedal the heavy bike without it. Then you'll walk the rest of the way up.

If you have a friction drive like the zap kit did, where the motor drives the wheel via a roller that rides on the tire, it will be useless anytime the tire is wet, dusty, or you're going up a hill where it produces significant resistance. The solution I found to this was to install an extra gear shift on the handlebars, and run a line down the frame to a point opposite the motor. Then ran the cable to a convenient mounting hole in the motor casing so that when I pulled the lever the motor would be pulled into the tire. This let me keep traction in any condition, even snow. I showed this to some people from zap, and they thought it was great. But not great enough to put in their kits apparently. I also designed a roller that worked kind of like a thick spring that could change diameter with pressure so using this you could change gear ratios, but that never went anywhere either. If anyone wants the design to work on building it, let me know.

It won't electrocute you or short out in the rain, even in El Nino, even if you're stupid and go out in El Nino and get drenched. Your brakes however, will fail when they're hydroplaning on your rims as you careen down into the Noe valley at breakneck speeds.

Bike thieves will still steal your bike despite the fact they don't have the charger for it. Either that or someone will steal your battery and headlight and smash them in the street for no good reason. Kryptonite locks will not save you, it'll still be stolen even in broad daylight at a busy mall. I gave up after losing 2 bikes.

If you have to transport it a long distance, like to another state, don't ship it, fly with it. Most airlines have a flat $50 bike fee, just get a bike box from the local bike shop and pack it. Pack your batteries seperately in your luggage on top, so you can show them to the people at the counter in the airport before they check your bag. Lead acid gel cells are safe for commercial airline trainsport, and will likely have this printed on the batteries themselves, as mine did.

If you use the bike every day expect to replace your batteries every year or two, as they'll wear out.

Beware of other cyclists, alot of them will be mad at you for "cheating".

You'll hear lots of interesting things about better technologies, such as improved lithium ion batteries, and small fuel cells which are always "just around the corner". I waited and searched for 5 years to get either one. Even when they actually demonstrated a bike with the same kit as mine running on a li battery with half the weight and 6 times the range, they wouldn't sell it to me. They went on to make $450 laptop batteries instead and refused to license the tech to anyone interested in other applications and refused to build any other size or shape batteries unless you wanted like 100,000 units. As for the fuel cells, saw one on a bike too. But they were always experimental and "Oh we'll have this out in 2 years." It won't happen anytime soon.

You'll also hear about new and improved electric vehicles that are

I've seen plenty of TDI volkswagens here in California. I'd like to see diesel-hybrids running clean diesel fuels. I'd love to get one of these diesel hybrid motorcycles which I haven't heard anything new about since that page first debuted on slashdot. I guess really it wouldn't be all that hard to make one out of some existing motorcycle chassis.

If these guys ever get their act together and ship product, the Insight will look like a gas-guzzler.

Check out the eCycle, a diesel-electric hybrid motorcycle that gets 180MPG (no typo). The only disadvantage I see is that they aren't out yet... :^)

Considering they're using diesel instead of gasoline, I guess 180mpg is perfectly possible. They also mention that they're currently using existing diesel motor instead of their own 125 cc engine still under development. Also the 180mpg is the target, not the current result.

It seems they are targetting to develop a diesel engine of which only function is to keep the bike running at the cruise speed and the acceleration is handled by the electric motor the company has already designed. For such a motor, 180mpg should be possible.

I wouldn't invest money on the company without seeing more detail, though.

Considering they're using diesel instead of gasoline, I guess 180mpg is perfectly possible. They also mention that they're currently using existing diesel motor instead of their own 125 cc engine still under development. Also the 180mpg is the target, not the current result.

It seems they are targetting to develop a diesel engine of which only function is to keep the bike running at the cruise speed and the acceleration is handled by the electric motor the company has already designed. For such a motor, 180mpg should be possible.

I wouldn't invest money on the company without seeing more detail, though.

One, this result assumes that the production of H is a derivative of fossil fuels. that is currently the only economical means to do so, however! Fusion energy is not only the most enviromentally sound means of producing energy, but it has a higher energy density than just about any other energy production technology (barring matter/antimatter etc.) We all know that fusion has been somewhat pie in the sky, but it is a viable alternative and less than 20 years away. See http://www.iter.org

Two, Until we can light the fusion flame and keep a sustained burn, I would seroiusly love to have on of these. A hybrid bike that gets 180mpg and will do 0-60 in 6 seconds.

in fact i believe it has the best mileage for any vehicle that still uses a fossil fuel of any sort.

My Suzuki motorcyle would get over 50MPG on the highway (as long as I kept it under 85mph). Even the Honda Goldwings with the 1.6L engines were rated at 50MPG on the highway. Many mopeds and scooters get even higher mileage, some in the 100MPG range. Of these, some don't qualify to be ridden on an interstate, but most are vehicles that require plates and license to operate.

eCycle (oops, is that a deep link?) is working on a hybrid motorcycle that gets 180MPG (using diesel by the way). Pretty cool machine, I'd love to try one out, but with a top speed of 80, it would barely keep up with traffic on NY/NJ highways...