Slashdot Mirror
Building a Better Motorized Bicycle
toyotaboy writes "Saw this in 'design news' magazine. It's a bicycle using an engine that looks like something pulled off of an R/C airplane. He uses a gear reduction system as well as a overrunning clutch to keep the engine running while stopped. Claims to get 20 mile range from its 1/4 gallon gas tank (80mpg). If you figure most engines like that are 30k rpm with 1:100 gear reduction, and an average bike rim is 26", you should get potentially 1,458,000 inches per hour, or 23mph! He goes on to say that similar devices in electric form (segway) fail because of their heavy 80lb weight and limited 10-15 mile range (and where do you recharge?) This thing can be filled back up at any gas station."
in the US? I remeber seeing a couple of old people riding motorized bikes but ive only seen them once.
John Hancock
So not only you get to breathe everyone else's exhaust, you get to produce your own via a two-stroke engine directly under your nose? Yucko.
sulli
RTFJ.
You gotta wonder where the vibrations on a two stroke engine mounted inside the bike frame are going to go....
I'm not against it, i'm just saying, certain female population may find riding bickes are enjoyable as the first victorian females did... for prehaps not so obvious reasons.
-malakai
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
But what about the sound - When I'm riding my bike, I don't want to listen to the constant loud, annoying drone of a motor.
Your Silence speaks more than words ever could.
My one and only problem with gas based bicycle is the amount of noise it makes. If someone can come up with a good silencer, then that would be great.
The environmentalists will be the ones having a stroke if this becomes popular. They don't even make 2 stroke lawnmowers anymore.
We have motorized bikes here in England.
They're called 'Motorbikes'. We even have mini versions for teenagers called 'mopeds'. Clever, eh?
So exactly how is this different from a moped? 80 mi/gal for a moped is not that impressive.
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all the freedom of being rained on without the benefit of exercise!
Are you MORE than your SPINAL COLUMN?
Fat and lazy people will be overjoyed that they do not acually have to push the petals.....
It's a really good idea, but we are still going to run out of fossil fuels eventually (not to mention the pollution problem...
doesn't this just put off the inevitable a little bit more?
(although, I must say I wouldn't mind one... altho I 'm not sure how it would handle with the engine on the front wheel like that)
Some of us are too poor to afford motorized transportation. Eat my Razor-dust, you insensitive clod!
Some may think that a super efficient small engine is a good thing. I argue that point.
Although a small 2-stroke may put out much less greenhouse gas than a car or motorcycle, a 2-stroke engine of any size is very damaging to the air quality. A 2-stroke engine (such as the one on this bike) must burn large amounts of oil, it's simply the way 2-strokes work. Therefore, a lot more soot, and other impurities are blown out the exhaust. This is the smelly blue smoke you always see out the back of scooters, motorboats, chainsaws and other devices with 2-stroke engines.
While this may be a more efficient form of transportation, if everyone who rides a bike road one of these our cities would be far more smoggy and smelly than they are today.
"Entropy is the bad-guy, and he is everywhere"
This guy has basically invented a light-weight moped?
American's despise moped's, they figure if you are going to get a a cycle you might as well get one that looks cool. That is why Harley's are so popular, becuase they look cool. I have a co-worker here that is willing to spend $5,000 dollar's every couple of year's to add accessories and get some improvements done on her bike.
While the idea is neat, it will not take off simply becuase of american culture, and it sounds like a moped.
Can it run uphill? Small internal combustion motors have very slim power bands, and I didn't see anything about gear shifting, nor a torque assist.
Will it last? I'm no mechanical engineer, but spur gears and an overrunning clutch do not sound like overly robust components.
All in all, I wonder if a moped is a better buy.
What about any electtical outlet for the Segway? The thing goes 10-12 miles on $0.10 USD. That bicycle goes 10-12 miles on $0.25 USD.
Have you seen the pollution in growing nations that have cities full of 2 cycle engines on motor scooters? Damn man talk about stinky horrible asthma causing pollution.
How about this one?
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/427.html
This bike is probably a little bit better than some stinky ICE bike. It also has the same range. Go figure.
is this a bike or a motor bike, might as well get a scooter
I thought the main reason, aside from the cost, of riding a bike was to help contribute to the prevention of pollution. Now dont git me wrong, i drive my car everywhere and i am far from being a tree huggger, but this is just another reason to skateboard everywhere.
I use to own a goped (a moped without a seat, basically a scooter with a weedwacker engine) and it would get a good 10-15mph, crappy for a goped yes but imagine the crashes at 25+ with no seat to be belted to (as if someone would want to be belted to a mo/goped).
One reason not to get a motorized bike/scooter... Where are you gunna put the 10" subwoofers & amp?!?!
- You're not paranoid, they really are after you.
I know a 50cc 2 stroke engine, which runs forever on on mere tea-spoonfuls of gasoline causes massive pollution. It's because of the release of so much unburned fuel into the environment (25 to 40% according to EPA estimates). Anytime you run a simple engine at such high RPM's you run into this dilemma. I've heard claims that a 2-stroke lawnmower running for 1 hour produces as many pollutatnts, (excluding CO2 of course) as 40 automobiles.
I'm sure this engine is much smaller than that, maybe 8 or 15cc's but still too much pollution for the energy created.
Who will get to 300 first, the MLB pitcher or the state of Texas?
tcd004
It may not have a very high top speed; and needs to recharge overnight; but its very fuel efficent (only needs three full tanks a day) and enviromentally sound (all waste products are completely biosynthesised.)
Could it be possible to hack this thing onto a segway? It might actually be useful then.
I fly rc planes... I know about this stuff... The engines that turn 30k rpm are tiny glow fuel powered engines, NOT weedeater gas engines (max of around 10k) Glow fuel runs from $15 to $20 per gallon, not very cost effective! Also, the picture isn't clear enough to really show anything of the engine!
I wonder why the guy runined a great concept by fitting a two-stroke engine?
:-)
Two-strokes not only create more polution but they're also significantly less fuel-efficient than a four-stroke engine of the same power.
I mean, if you're after thrills rather than efficiency then why not just build a scooter like the one on this page?
In many jurisdictions it would be considered a moped or scooter, and need a license plate & insurance.
Still, a neat idea.
It seems to escape a lot of people that electrical outlets are far more plentiful than gas stations. Save for those people that work (or live) at a gas station, an electric vehicle doesn't involve any extra stops. Finally, in the amounts that an electric-assist bicycle uses, electricity is basically free (as in beer), which is less and less the case with gasoline.
And for some that actually is powered by something pulled off an R/C plane...
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
A neighbor of mine did it when we were growing up. He put a weedwacker motor onto his 10 speed schwinn... still had to pedal to get up hills, but for everything else it was great if you were happy doing about 10 mph or so.
Guess you're fucked either way then. I'll glady drive my V12 Jag around getting 11.8 MPG.
Anyone in their right mind would prefer the pollution from a two-stroke engine to what I expel after a diet of Gatorade and Power Bars. Especially if you are riding behind me.
Long Rides will do that to you.
best web host ever
I ride a bike because I like it. An engine would take away the charm. Smelly, noisy - and I'd need to go to the gym more. I reckon Westerners (especial USA-ites) need more exercise, not less.
Would it be faster? - no, I don't think so. I maintain 35+kph on the flat, significantly less going up hills, somewhat more down.
That said, gadgets similar to this are popular in Holland - where the road system is already adapted to bicycles (they decided to do this after the first fuel crisis in, when, 1976?).
I'll stick to my simple, silent, healthy bike, thanks. (But given a choice, I'd love to see folk on these rather than sprawling their fat bodies in their gas-guzzling SUVs - yuk).
"Cats like plain crisps"
If this engine isn't an emissions disaster, and isn't too loud, it may be very cool.
I have an electric power-assist (Currie) kit for my commuter bike. I use it for my 2 mile commute to work, and for running errands in a ~5 mile radius.
It's great- I can pedal hard if I want to, or take it easy and cruise at 17-18 mph if I don't want to sweat (like on my way to work in the summer). I'm not lazy- I run marathons and stuff- but I find that I use the bike more often for errands than I used to, pre-motor.
One of the only drawbacks is that the battery pack is heavy and awkward to haul up to my office to get charged every day. If I could get a kit with a *clean* gas engine, I'd be interested. But I have my doubts about this. For now, I'll stick with the clean electric (yeah, I know there are emissions associated with my bike's electricity consumption, but we're talking about 1 kWh per day).
Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
Two-stroke engines are great contributors to the incredible pollution of places like Dhaka or New Delhi. India is trying to get away from the ill-maintained motor scooters on gas/oil mixtures to hydrogen or, even more practical given the amount of animal manure available there, methanol. Discussion here with insight from a guy working in this problem. Fossil fuels just won't cut it because of the double headed monster of carbon fuel pollution and a multiplier effect of unmaintained equipment burning that same fuel.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
Id put karo syrup in my neighbors gas tank if he bought one of these. I would expect the noise and the lack of emission controls are (literally) crimminal.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
As a result, the starter allows users to work up to a couple of miles an hour before the engine kicks on
That must be one hulava jolt.
i have a silencer to already take care of those kind of bikes when i see(hear) them out on my fav. mountain bike trails...it mounts nicely on the end of my pistol.
well, as of yesterday i've been using the segway ht for 100 days and over 500 miles. slashdot wouldn't ever dream of releasing that story of course :-]
i wrote about here:
http://www.bookofseg.com/100days/
the bike article says that there aren't places to charge a ebike, there are more outlets than gas stations. and for me, for my commute- i take my ht to work and charge it while i'm at work (it's not needed, but i do charge it since it's just sitting there). i don't see why the goal is to trash electric bikes or things like the segway ht. the article didn't even mention the segway, but slashdot felt the need to. ebikes don't need to be trashed to make his gas bike look better, he could have just talked about the bike, it's cool. i'll actually try his solution out if / when it comes out, looks kinda neat.
cheers,
pt
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/030.000.000/030.0 00.000.asp?lYear=2003&bikesection=8828&range=127&m odel=10594 [URL Giant-bicycles.com]
"You win again Gravity!" -Futurama (Zapp)
If this can be converted to a mini-diesel engine then it would be really attractive, Diesel gets better mileage which would increase the range and the fuel can be replaced with a biologically produced renewable resource, Bio-Diesel.
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1) Hook the R/C motor to a generator
2) Mount it to a Segway
3) Watch Dean Kamen recoil in horror!
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
The hardest part was attaching a #35 go-kart sprocket to the rear cassette of the bike. I had to cut little splines into the sprocket to make it attach properly. Anyway, it worked out great. Top speed of 52 km / h (I could get it faster, but then it's too hard to get going from a stop... only one gear, remember...) And oh man, does it ever attract attention around Burlington. I have been offered two jobs (At machine shops) simply based on the home-built moped. Overall, a great project. I'm now building an offroad go-kart and an on-road trike.
Karma: pi (Mostly due to circular reasoning in posts).
I alot of the people who I know make a point of riding bicycles because they are anti-oil - doesn't this sort of defeat the purpose?
There's all kinds of 2-stroke engines for yard and other uses out there.
s tore/pages/lawnmower-26.html s tore/pages/lawnmower-27.html
Try some links on for size:
http://www.mowdirect.co.uk/acatalog/600i-2_2.htm
http://www.shophutt.co.nz/sites/lawnmower/online_
http://www.shophutt.co.nz/sites/lawnmower/online_
http://www.epinions.com/content_70547902084
In the first three, I reference not one or two, but three different 2-stroke lawnmowers that are in current production and sales. The last link is for a rather popular home and garden tool, the Ryobi Trimmer Plus- a modular system that allows for spin-trimmer, blade edger, pole pruner, tiller and other attachments to the power head, a 2-stroke engine.
Just because there's stricter emissions rules doesn't mean they've gone away. Check your facts next time.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I actually own a '98 Tomos Targa moped. It's got a 49.9cc two-stroke engine, two speed automatic transmission, a top speed of 35MPH and gets 100 miles to the gallon. Of course, since most everyone else on the road is doing 50MPH in vehicles weighing over 3,000LBS, you can easily see why I rarely ride it.
Mopeds are amazingly simple and easy to work on, there's quite a few sites on the net where you can buy performence parts (real performence, not "riced out" fart pipes) and forums to discuss moped-related topics.
To me, this "breakthrough" just sounds like rediscovering old technology. The real reason mopeds never became really popular is because, let's face it, most people don't want to give up the safety of having a heavy steel frame around them. You also can't go sportin' your bling-bling on a moped - there's no trunk for subwoofers.
Highly efficient low-speed single passenger transportation has existed for as long as there have been gas guzzlers on the road. But until the roads are safe for low-speed single passenger vehicles, people will overwhelmingly choose to ride inside cars, SUVs, trucks and vans.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
My information is a bit dated, but don't two-stroke engines require oil to be mixed with the gasoline prior to combustion? Doesn't this lead to innefficiency and bad smoke?
Doen't they also have problems with fuel in the exaust stroke and exaust in the power stroke?
Have these problems been resolved or does the bike's weight overshadow the efficiency problems?
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
As a competitive cyclist, I really don't like the idea of putting any sort of motor on a bicycle. Though if it means one less commuter in a car, then I will grudgingly admit that e-bikes are a good thing.
However, range should not matter on assisted bicycles. Most commuters don't need any sort of long-distance range. In addition, if you pedal around enough, you will develop an aerobic base.
Just take the motor off entirely and work them legs, you slackers. It's good for you.
-- nAs far as the Segway v. RC-motor bike debate goes, ask yourself these questions:
1 - Which one would give you the best chance of getting laid?
2 - Which one would give you the best chance of getting a wedgie from your high-school's quarterback?
Come on now... seriously though where the hell are you gonna go in 20 miles? Sure you can still pedal the bike manually, but then you got the extra weight of a damn motor to lug with you. I'm sorry but bicycles are fine the way they are. Unless the thing can go like 80 miles without refilling I wouldn't touch it. I'd just get a damn huffy or something.
You're nothing; like me.
how do you stop? It seems like it would be difficult if you have an engine propelling you at 23 mph. I don't think standard bike brakes will do it...and how does the engine know when to turn off?
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
Bloody Tourists
... Exactly. Each year thousands of bikes are stolen by the dopey-eyed losers. They are like crows. They like gleaming stuff. A brand new bike attracts them like flies.
Bicycles
The best and fastest way to get around in Amsterdam: a bike. There are no rules. Feel free to use the sidewalk, one way streets, etcetera. Ignore traffic signs, run red lights. No problem.
However, there is a catch: the natives get agitated when you drive slowly. A bike is a means of transport, not to enjoy the scenery. Consider the hefty chains, a necessary accessory to each bike in Amsterdam. Do not provoke the natives, unless you want your head bashed in with it.
The typical Amsterdam bike is a rusty, old vehicle, often painted in colours that could make a grown man weep. "Why?", you ask. Oh, you never heard about the junkies? The junkies need their dope, they need money to buy it, they don't have any money, so they become thieves and sell off the loot. The loot consists mainly of
The typical tourist bike is a smart looking brand new vehicle. So be sure you get an insurance against theft. Report your bike stolen at one of the user friendly Amsterdam police stations.
help out.
Just think, at a 100:1 gear ratio, you'll experience the joys of rebuilding your engine every other weekend. If a typical Motorcycle (4 cycle) averages an average gear ratio of 1.5:1 and gets about 30K miles before it's rebuild time, that would factor out to about 450 miles before a rebuild. While a 2 stroke engine is almost as durable as a 4 stroke, the small size will decrease it's lifespan by a significent margin compared to a larger (ie 600cc) 4 stroke... I doubt you would get much more than 300 miles out of one of these little engines.
Deuteronomy 13:06-9
http://www.communitybike.org/files/amsterdam/
Amsterdam White Bike Program & Bicycle Culture
Author: Jared Benedict
Updated: 06/07/2002
Amsterdam is known as the City of Bicycles and it lives up to its name. Stepping out of Central Station you are overwhelmed with a sea of bicycles. There is a three story bicycle "parking lot" crammed with rows of bikes. The city also has implemented other bicycle infrastructure. For example, most streets have a bicycle lane.
In the 1960's a group of individuals known as "Provo" proposed a "White Bicycle Plan". The plan called for the closing of all motorized traffic in the city center. The white bike plan, led by Luud Schimmelpennink, also proposed that the municipality purchase 20,000 bicycles to be owned "be everyone and no one". The Provo group donated the first 50 bikes to the cause but they were promptly confiscated by the police. There was a fair amount of excitement surrounding the initial implementation of the white bike plan, and around other "white" plans the Provo group came up with. For more information on the background of Provo, and their inititives check out the Provo page.
Although the initial white bike plan fizzled, Schimmelpennink didn't give up. Over thirty years later, he implemented an automated white bike depo program which included 19 racks around Amsterdam. Anyone could check-out a uniquely designed bicycle from a rack "depo", ride it to the rack closest to their destination and return it for someone else to check-out. According to a bulletin posted by Y-tech, the program was suppose to have 45 depos installed with 750 bicycles. Unfortunately, according to Erik Van den Muijzenberg, one of the testers for the new system, the racks were, "not strong enough and not reliable enough". In a weblog post by David O'Coimin he talked to a user of the system who was having technical difficulties.
Stephan Horlak visited and photographed the depos still in operation in late August 2001. However during my visit to Amsterdam in March 2002, I came across two depos which were in fact no longer in operation. The stall remained, but the bikes and locking devices had been removed.
According to Van den Muijzenberg, Schimmelpennink has redesigned the racks and internal electronics to make them stronger and more reliable. However, funding for the project has been a problem and it's not clear what the future of the project holds. A similar program has been designed and implemented by Adshel.
Related Links
* New Urbanism: Luud Schimmelpennink, The White Bicycle Plan - ca. 1970
* Depo (cached)
* Hip Guide to Amsterdam: The White Bicycles
* Hip Guide to Amsterdam: Bicycles
* Strange Amsterdam Bicycles
* A two-wheeled tour through Amsterdam
* Wired: Pedal Pusher
* Bicycle Use and Safety In Paris, Boston, and Amsterdam
* The autumn of the Bicycle Master Plan: after the plans, the products
* White Bike Photos
* David O'Coimin blog post about the White Bike rack issues
* Adshel Automated Bike System Summary
* CommunityBike.org Dutch Provo Page
Statistics
There are several statistics floating around. Few mention the original source how how the data was compiled.
"[Amsterdam] has 800,000 people and as many bikes." (Rick Steves' France Belgium & Netherlands 2002. pg. 374)
400,000 bicycles in Amsterdam. (source?)
More bicycles than people in Amsterdam. (source?)
Dutch tax system gives people that ride a bike to work (min. 10 km/3 days a week) a tax deduction of 300 a year. (update: Erik van den Muijzenberg reports that you get a reduction on the cost of a new bicycle which will be used for commuting.)
In Holland, bicycles are allowed to turn right through a red light, while all other traffic is fined 90 for the same action. (reference) (unverified) (update: Erik van den Muijzenberg reports that this is not true to his knowledge.)
While in Amsterdam (03/19/20
help out.
Bicycle Smile
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
battery-powered bicycles are not the answer to the world's traffic dilemmas because the problem is that it takes about 377 lbs of lead-acid batteries to equal the energy stored in a pound of gasoline.
Wow, way to make an argument. Choose the heaviest oldest battery technology there is to defend the usage of one of the noisiest, dirtiest combustion engines that exists!
Steve Katsaros is giving hemself a big pat on the back, but he's employing an engine that would gain huge benefits out of variable gearing, yet is not using the variable gearing that is on practically every bicycle out there!
What I would like to know is, what the hell part of this brilliant design received a patent? If this were part of a Uni student designed project, I imagine this would constitute a failure.
Batteries have evolved well past lead-acid and combustion engines well past 2 stroke, for Christs sake.
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Sweat and smell don't let you bike to work? Now you can just smell of smoke sprayed on your clothes aaaall the way long... and also sweat when it breaks down! With some luck its gonna rain
This is not my opinion. Actually, it's not even an opinion. And I'm nowhere to be seen near it
Please use teh pedals! They are your friend.
As far as this thing goes, I wonder what the effect of having a considerably heavier, and powered, front wheel has on the handling and ride of a bicycle. Having the extra weight at the back (yes, I realise that this is going to be much lighter than the motor on my machine, but there's still a fair bit of extra weight in that wheel) seems like a better idea to me. Additionally, that range is no better than an electric bike. A few hundred millilitres of extra fuel seems like a good idea. Yes, it wouldn't be hard to carry an extra bottle of fuel, but who wants to be refilling the thing in the middle of the street?
Electric-assisted bicycles don't quite have the range to be practical yet, IMHO, but if somebody can put together a lithium-ion one, or even better, a fuel cell one, they should wipe gas-powered models off the market in fairly short order.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Here we have yet another gas-powered bicycle. So it's within the frame. Big deal. What's the target audience here? Who needs these things? Is it not enough that you have wheels and multiple gears? You're telling me you want to not have to use the pedals too? Let me tell you about this amazing power source my scooter has. It's waterproof, runs on carbohydrates and caffeine, and can disengage and coast down hills to conserve energy. It easily attaches and detatches itself to and from the scooter.
In addition to that, with a gas-powered bicycle, you're going to be hated by automobile drivers *and* bike riders, cause you're an annoying bike with a polluting, noisy gas engine. Pedestrians will hate you too for almost running them over with any sort of powered vehicle while you're on the sidewalk.
I'm not saying there's no practical use for these. Maybe if you're one of those bicycle-to-work types of people and theres a large hill you have to get up. In that case, you'll simply start up the 2-stroke and... oh, pollute like a mofo. Guess you'll only be biking to work because it doesn't cost as much as maintaining a car... certainly no environmental reason.
I hate to break it to all those naysayers out there,c hnology /combustProcess.htm
but the polution problems of the two stroke have been solved via direct injection of fuel along with a small charge of compressed air. See link>
http://www.orbeng.com.au/orbital/orbitalTe
This now being implemented by scooter and moped manufacturers due to tighter pollution laws.
The reason this wont get up is LEGAL, not due to engineering difficulties. In Oz power assist on
bicycles is limited to 300watts (less than 1/2 a hp)small enough to ensure uselessness. After that
the vehicle becomes a "motorbike" requiring a licence, helmet, proper headlight, indicators, tyres meeting motorcycle standards, and best of
all - expensive insurance.
Cheers for beers
Lebbeck
The worst terrorist attacks in American history occured only 1.5 years ago, and you people are talking about a fucking motorized bicycle? Get some priorities! I cry at the fact that our country is full of pimply faced nerd faggots who jizz over a motorized bicycle when they should be mourning those brave heros who died on 9/11. We're about to go to war, and I hope every last one of you are drafted!
Goat: It's what's for dinner!
In New Zealand we call the riders of motorbikes "wankers"
and teenagers "hopeless bastards".
But maybe this guy so-called "patent agent" would be doing a better service if he was out REJECTING sideways swinging, etc.
And how about the top of the range polluter the 12 cylinder 2-stroke diesel locomotive.
A Montgomery Ward motorcycle from the 60's or 70's got similar gas mileage, but was bigger and faster.
I have a 1981 Honda Twinstar CM200T motorcycle. It does ~60 mph with a 200cc engine that gets about 90mpg. Not too bad... And it's street legal.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
http://www.ecycle.com/powersports/hybrid.htm
(from their site)
Target Performance Specifications
Fuel Consumption: 180mpg
Est. top speed: 80mph
0-60mph: 6.0sec
Weight: 230lb.
Beta testing starting 2003
I'm holding out for a Hydrogen powerd rocket bike!!
motorized bicycle...motorized + bicycle...i know! ill call it a motorcycle and make millions!
Assuming this is a rc airplane engine be aware that they do not burn gasoline. The burn a fuel that is a combination of niromethane (10-20%), alchohol (60-70%), and oil (10-20% either synthetic or natural)(pick a combination of numbers that adds to 100%). The exhaust isn't nearly as bad as say, a lawnmower, and has a fairly distinct smell. The goo one gets around the exhaust is unburned oil.
------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
Sheesh, in the Tour De France the *average* speed of the winner is over 23 mph, and those bike use standard block brakes (well, standard design. They're probably carved from the baby teeth of yetis or something similarly expensive). I hate to think what those guys do downhill...
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
No longer will they have to have their bikes collect dust or sell them on ebay. Hell, hide the motor, pedal slowly, and amaze people with your large size and 20mph transit. Just please don't wear any lycra...
One simple rule for its versus it's
Most bike wheels have a circumference over 50 inches. The speed is going to be more like 10 mph, not 23.
Go One Velomobile : The best part is the carbon monocoque chassis.
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. Penguins Surely Ca
I thought I had read about this previously, and then I remembered where
I can't entirely agree with most of the objections I'm reading. I have ridden my bike a long distance to work, and can see the use for this product. Most days it's nice to glide along quietly smoothly, and environmentally friendily (if friend has an adverb form). After a long exhausting day, going home 3 hours later than normal, in the rain, all I wanted to do was get home. There was no joy in the ride; It was work that I wasn't looking forward to. To be able to get the bike up to speed and spend 25 cents in gas cruising home would have been a significant advantage. One that would inspire me to pedal the bike to work more often as the risk of an arduous ride home would be reduced.
But... If they want to sell me one of these kits they will have to be a little more fact-centric, and a little less like a Microsoft press release.
"With a quarter of a gallon of fuel, he says most bikes will have a driving range of about 20 miles."
Interesting, but what kind of mileage does the bike in the picture actually get? If you have a working prototype tell the story, and if it gets mediocre mileage tell us why, and what will be done to fix it in the version we buy.
"The problem is that it takes about 377 lbs of lead-acid batteries to equal the energy stored in a pound of gasoline"
Um, no it doesn't. At least not on my home planet. It's a shame that selling this item to the public seems to require such an obvious lie. Whatever cool formulas the chemists whip out aside, the forklifts at my client's work place use 350 lb. lead acid battery packs and run on them for 8 hour shifts. There is no forklift on the planet than can perform like they do for eight ours on 16 oz. (yes, I know that gas isn't the exact same weight as water, but it's close enough)) of gas. No way. Ain't happnin'.
"If you had to start the engine and then get on the bike, you wouldn't be able to get your balance," Katsaros says. "This gives users an easy way to get started."
Um, not so much. I started riding a motorcycle back when I had a full head of hair, and I can tell you for a fact I can reliably "start the engine, and then get on the bike." And, more usefully, other bikers and I can start the engine and engage it without duck-walking the bike up to speed so we can "get our balance." The feature of disengaging when the bike is going less than two miles an hour is there to avoid all the low-end gear + clutch crap that is necessary to to get a motorcycle going from a stop and still yield decent efficiency at normal speeds. It's a compensation for the simplicity of the design and a good trade-off in the cost/weight/functionality game. It's not a "feature for the benefit of the inept rider" any more than Code Red was a "security assurance feature for WindowsNT admins."
I sure hope Mr. Katsaros understands that selling a geeky toy means marketing to geeks, who by their nature prefer facts to hyperbole.
If I were to have a motorized bicycle, I'd rather have one of these.
wow, this is really, well, don't want this to turn into flamebait, so i'll leave the descriptor out...
Please tell me you are joking...
Hmmm I didn't see the inventor make any reference to Segway but somehow it still made it's way into the Slashdot version.
>> It's not a motor--it's an engine
Isn't it the same?
26" is the diameter of a standard mountain bike rim. And if you run a larger circ. wheel at the same RPM as a smaller, you go faster, not slower.
26" diameter, smart guy...
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/362.html
I have a friend who created a fairing for his motorcycle which allowed him to get 250 miles per gallon. I think it got 80 before he did that, but anyways, I would much rather go for one of those since you don't have to keep stopping at the gas station, and you can go faster with it. Also, the recumbent bicycles with fairings can go wicked fast with just a little effort and don't have the troubles of an engine either (it's easy to push 30 MPH on one of those).
Who moved my sig?
Your name has been passed around as being a corporate shrill or guilty of astroturfing for either amazon or segway.
Is any of that true?
--- I do not moderate.
In many communities in America (and it varies, just like everything else), moped and motorcycle licenses and registration are given out based on engine displacement size. I am not sure what the cutoff is between mopeds and motorcycles, but for mopeds, then engine must have a displacement of somewhere around 200 or more CCs to get a road-use license.
Typically, most goped and bicycle engines are of the "weedeater" or "chainsaw" variety, are are well under 200 CCs (some are under 100 CCs). What you end up with is an inability to license these vehicles for road use, so it is technically illegal to ride the vehicles on city streets. You can't ride them on sidewalks, either (laws for bicycles aside, which typically say you can't ride a bike on a sidewalk, it is also because they are engine powered). So where can you ride these machines?
Technically, private property only. So what about all of these people buzzing around on gopeds? Well, they are breaking the law, and sometimes (not often, but every once in a while when a cop needs to make quota or something) a kid gets busted, and ticketed, with a fine or something. It doesn't matter what kind of license you have, you can't get one to legally use one of these vehicles on the road.
What is really funky, though, is what will happen if fuel cells become small and affordable (I should say when the become commercially available - they are already available in small form factors). Here will be a power source to make electric scooters, bikes (and cars, of course) very practical. So, would these smaller vehicles be legal?
Well, that depends on how the laws are written - if they say "motorized" as opposed to "engine powered" you may be screwed - but don't give up! How often have you seen some older or disabled person "putting" down the sidewalk in one of those "electric mobility vehicles"? What is the difference between that and an electric goped, for instance? Speed, yes - and one is meant for disabled, etc people - but really, what is the difference? Should those people be ticketed as well? Technically, they too are breaking the law! Or is the law only equal for some, and not others? Consistancy, please!
As some of you may know, I am currently in the process of building an electric recumbent vehicle from bicycle parts - I have been working on this thing off and on for over a year now (various things keep me from really working on it like I want to). When it is complete, I do plan to ride it on city streets and bike paths. I hope when those fuel cells become available, I can switch to those. I plan on looking deeply into whether or how I can get a license for it, but from what I know I don't think it is possible (I am planning on installing signals and lights for better safety - I am also hoping to maybe get an "experimental vehicle" license or rider/exemption on my current license). It will be interesting to see what happens, to say the least...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
They say they get 80 mpg from this at up to 23 mph? Big deal. I consistently get 60 mpg from my 1100cc BMW motorcycle, with two people plus luggage, as long as I don't go over 70 mph or overtake aggressively.
Smaller engined conventional motorcycles (under 250cc) get 100+ mpg.
... turns out to be just that. Taking a small, inexpensive motor and attaching it to a bicycle? It's a basically sound idea. That is after all how Soichiro Honda got started in the motorcycle business after the war. Putting the engine in the rim? Hey, another nifty idea, but not original: the Megola did that in 1922.
Okay, sometimes synthesizing old ideas into new ones can yield interesting results. At least it makes you think "hmmm, neat hack". I don't see this as a fine example of this. All that gearing and mechanical complexity of the clutches and gearset strike me as expensive and failure-prone: too many moving parts for what it sets out to do. It would seem simpler is better.
Then there's the question of intrinsic value. Mopeds and motorcycles are cheap for the utility and performance they provide when you compare them to today's overpriced yuppie-toy bicycles. You can find a used motorcycle for $1200 or so, and mopeds even less than that. Mileage? Well, my CBR900RR gets 55mpg, and I don't have to worry about looking good in Spandex. Pollution? Many have pointed out that even 2-stroke motors can be engineered to be quite 'green', such as Aprilia's direct-injected 2-stroke scooter using technology licensed from Orbital Engine Corp.
So, tell me why this is useful?
I routinely pedal hundreds of miles a week, sometimes 2-300 just on the weekend. I really don't want to have to refill a dozen times in the course of a few hours. I mean 80mpg? Don't motorcycles get much better mileage than that?
I really don't understand why every few years we hear about a newer, spiffier method of motorizing a bicycle. If you want a motorized bicycle, haul out your old copy of "All Mod Cons" and start driving a Vespa, or get an E-Bike.
If you want to actually use your legs and run the risk of (shrieks of horror!) helping your heart out a bit, ride a bicycle. They're actually quite fun, in spite of the fact that you have to move your body to use them.
Gawd, we've got SUVs running amok, huge Ticonderoga-class diesel trucks everywhere, and now we have to smoggify one of the most elegant of transportation solutions. Go ahead, mod me down. At least I won't be accused of karma-whoring with this one.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
What I don't get is why every other "new" invention bashes electric by saying "this will tide us over till batteries get better and with gas you can fill up anywhere" I thought the whole point is to get away from gas once in for all. I have a good idea, how about spending a little more time and money on research on electric instead of fiddle farting around with glorified weed-whacker engines so we don't have to wait around. His claims of 85lbs for electric bikes are a bit off. They make NiMH electric conversions in the neighborhood of 20lbs. That's only ten pounds heavier than his "petite" 2 stroke. No gas or oil to mess with, no noise, no fumes, and nothing to have to tune up, just plug the thing in and go. I would also like to know where he rides where there is no electricity? Does he plan on using his bike for the two-hour commute into LA on the 405 during rush hour? Who would be willing to ride on a mountain bike for reasons other than sport far enough to actually run out of juice in the batteries, much less gas for his version. So range isn't really an issue since you could plug the thing in just about anywhere. This is another example of another fine product to "revolutionize" the world, as we know it. What this inventor has yet to figure out is those that are already willing to ride a bicycle to work are already doing so and that within a short period of time get in good enough shape to pedal it their damn selves, and don't need the extra weight and cost to get them up to the top of those theoretical "hills" these inventors always ramble on about as being the big determining factor as to why people don't ride bicycles. Here is a little clue for him, people who are too lazy to even pedal ten miles on a bike are certainly not going to want to even ride the same distance on a powered one. There's no heat & no AC for one, no protection from the elements, no comfortable bucket seat to park their fat ass in, no cd player, and where the hell are they going to plug in their cell phone and where are they going to put their McDonalds value meal #2 at along with all their junk they drag around with them? On top of that he hasn't even figured out the idea has already been done a thousand times, and that no one wants it. Don't take my word for it just look in the back of Popular Science or Popular Mechanics magazine you find half a dozen conversion kits "that if you order now you'll get free shipping". Aside from having no clue I do give this guy bonus points for finally containing everything in the hub instead of the ridiculous bolt on contraptions some people have come up with electric or gas.
I used to be a paperboy for a long time, and owned several mopeds. A brand new moped is well under a thousand dollars, and you can get a very good used one for about $300 still. plus it runs on regular pump gas, has turnsignals and gagues, and keys are required to unlock the steering wheel and steal it (barring carrying it away). The tiny engines for this bike mod are about the same price as a used moped, the fuel is about 10 times as expensive, they are louder, have less power and top speed, lower operating range (moped went over 100 miles on a gallon of regular fuel), mopeds are quieter etc. I'm pretty sure most places require a moped liscense (for those that actually get one) for any motor powered vehicle regardless of it's a rigged up bike or not.
Sir Clive Sinclair invented a "bike with an engine" in 1992. First came the Zike, which was an electric bike. Two years after that came the Zeta (check out the Zeta II) which was a electric motor that you could fit on your regular bike, converting it to an electric bike.
Need I say that both were commercial failures? Anyway, the history now repeats itself with SEGway. The difference between the Zike/Zeta and Stephen Katsaros' IC motor driven bike is minimal...
but as always, YMMV
That's the first post I read the acronym actually fits the post
Working for necessity's mother.
There's a good long tradition of these things too.
Ducati's motorcycle history goes back to 1946, when the Ducati factory produced a 48cc four stroke engine as a bicycle motor.
In 1947 Honda produced it's first product, a bicycle motor of 50 cc, based on the design of a batch of war surplus generator motors Soichiro had bought & then resold for the same purpose.
I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that spring to mind. I'd be interested to know exactly what engine he's using.
I was thinking about motorizing a scooter so I could still take it on Bart. Bicycles are not allowed during rush hour, and pushing a scooter any distance around a city like San Francisco is pretty slow hard work.
For those people who're complaining about noise, most of the engines you hear have little or no muffler. On a bicycle the weight penalty is substantially less than on a model airplane, so it could be muffled more efficiently. He could even put a tiny catalytic converter on it.
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
A bicycle... with a motor. I'm pretty sure that's been tried before.
It's called a motorbike.
This is very interesting. I don't understand why people who read Slashdot are not loving this stuff? Everyone writes about how Segways are stupid, and seem to be continuing the trend for this compact gas-powered bike. Seriously, I thought people on Slashdot were interested in technology. You must admit, both the Segway and this bike are design marvels. Sure, they may not be practical for everyone. Whether they are going to make it to Joe Sixpack's garage or not should be somewhat irrelevant to people more concerned about new technology than "Corporate America Today". Anyone can pick stuff apart and find possible problems with things. I remember reading previous posts about Segways from people who had something to say about how they were impractical because they might not work in the rain, were too heavy, etc.
This guy's website addresses these issues, gives pictures and video clips of the actual thing in use. This is the type of stuff that "nerds" should love. Or would you rather see an article that gives only a few facts and then complain/make up possible problems about the facts that are not given?
Should we change the slogan from "News for Nerds" to "News for Amish and others critical of new and upcoming technology"?
Karma: Looking Good - I finally used "Joe Sixpack" in a post and I have a sig about my Karma!
Electric bike-like vehicles are making great strides in usablity and cool factor. Lightweight, reliable, fast, and sufficiently long ranged to be practical cruisers, electric bike-like vehicles are currently available. My two dream electric bikes:
c fm?doc_ id=10
The eGo bike:
http://www.egovehicles.com/Products/index.
and
<drool>
The Veloci:
http://www.voloci.com/voloci/default.asp
</drool>
Hello, this type of auxilary motor is available in europe for years. Look at http://www.bavariabike.de/angebotm.htm for offers. The Sachs motors are pretty silent, you won't hear them in a town if they are more than 10 meters away.
I don't know about the US, but there is no way you could (currently) legally use this outside of private property.
Since it has an engine, its a motorcycle (or moped or related description) and as such I'm pretty sure it needs plates, indicators, etc.
It would also probably need to pass some sort of type certification, have an MOT done (annual safety check), pay Road Fund Licence, Insurance (and how difficult it that going to be to get), and the driver would need to have passed a motorcycle driving test.
Electric bikes (and trikes) are specifically allowed for in the electric bicycle regulations, as (obviously) are other motor vehicles, but I don't see how anything like this would ever get legislation passed at the moment (noise, safety and pollution issues), and using it in the UK in anywhere near this level of construction would break enough laws to leave you reasonably broke from the fines (at best).
Actually it is rocket science...
80mpg? Even my MBK scooter (which can go nearly 85km/h, mind you) does better.
...more than 50 years ago. See here or Google.
Which makes me wonder why people are surprised to get tickets on EV Warriors for operating with the motor in the bicycle lanes...just because it's electric doesn't stop it from being a motorized vehicle prohibited in the bicycle lane...
Help us build a better map!
These babies: http://www.spartamet.nl/ (sorry dutch only) have been around for ages. They are mainly sold to older ppl.
beauty is only a light switch away
That's a great idea! If you ever run out of water, you can always drink the exhaust...
It'll do 35 easily all over Seattle and 40 on flat ground. Faster down hills. Its tank is a little over a gallon and I regularly ride it 95 miles between fillups. It has a wide flat surface down where your feet go that's big enough to put a big sack of groceries or a PC on, which I've done on several occasions (under carefully controlled test conditions, since loads are always supposed to be secured while riding around town, you understand).
It has a centrifugal clutch and no transmission, so its controls are basically the throttle and the front and back brakes, which are on the handlebars much like a bicycle's. The other controls are the ignition switch, turn signals and horn. It has a gas gauge on it, so I consider it feature-rich.
The scooter performs so well and is so incredibly economical and practical that for the first couple months I felt like I had discovered some amazing secret that would solve all of our energy and transportation problems, and that all I'd have to do was tell people about my experience with this marvelous machine and the world would be changed for the better.
Finally I stumbled across some pictures from Thailand or somewhere with an entire family, several suitcases, a dozen chickens, and a milking goat on a scooter putting down a dirt road and then it dawned on me: Yeah, these ultralight scooters are the most economical powered form of transportation that the human race has come up to date, but no one really cares. They want their SUVs and the oil to power them, and if we have to Shock and Awe a quarter of a million kids in baghdad to keep from having to shuttle a sack of groceries or a new NEC 19" monitor home on a scooter the way that millions and millions of people in "third world" countries already do, then that's just the way it'll be.
I really like my scooter though, and if I take it easy on it and don't try to beat the Camaro next to me to the other side of the intersection, it really does get 85 MPG and goes almost 100 miles on, uh, however much it is now, $1.50 or $1.70 or something.
Buzzbikes
Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
Are you some commie or what???
...and likely to be banned in the next decade, even for chainsaws and the like. This is a serious backwards step. A fuel cell powered bike should be possible, though.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
What's new about this idea? I've seen elder people riding bikes just like this one, because they're no longer fit enough to ride the bike themselves. It's been around for decades. It's not really the add-on kit for your bike, but you can buy these things in bike shops (at least in Belgium you can). So what is this doing on slashdot?
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
Don't Smart Cars do 80mpg? I am pretty sure that several compact cars make about this kind of fuel consumption. I agree with bruceholt. 80mpg? gee whizz... I thought the little pizza delivery bikes did much better than that, over 100mpg surely?
My brother built the same thing back in the early 80's. The problem he ran into was the brakes. He wound up going too fast and falling head first into a car. Broke his collarbone. I see this bike has a enlarged fron brake, probably for good reason.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
In the 70's My father and I rode a motorized bycicle called Solex, iirc it was from France or Italy.
Also, in the early 80's someone made a diesel scooter whose prototype got something like 80Km/litre! (diesel, again)
There were low consuming vehicles in the past, but they were never widely accepted due to the sad fact that most people ego asks for SUVs and high speed motorcycles.
It does 80 to the gallon, which is less than a moped/Honda stepthrough. Why noy get a 125 cc morotbike that does 70 to the gallon, but does 70 miles per hour and has a range of 200 miles?
I stole this
http://freespace.virgin.net/stones.ukp/cyclemaster .htm
Hmm? would a vegie oil powered diesel fit in a bike fork? I suppose it wouldn't be any quieter.
I don't like the idea of all that engine weight being on the front wheel. It makes steering more unpredictable.
And I'd prefer one that got 80 miles to the tank not 20 miles. Like my people powered bike has a better range that that. Having to fill up twice a day would be a pain for me and the gas station.
Does the battery recharge going down hill? Maybe you could link it up with solar cells?
I've noticed that the treadleys with engines around my town are a bit slow to accellerate and slow for top speed compared to the bike couriers or myself. Personally, I absolutely depend on being able to beat the cars in the drag race from one side of the traffic lights to the other (up to 6 lanes) so I get a space on the road.
oh for a handlebar mounted paint gun, to shoot the inconsiderate motorists. Now that would be some useful commuter tech.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Um, isn't the whole point not to "fill up at any gas station"? We don't like fossil fuels.
--for a short period of time,about a year, in the late 70's I owned a bicycle store. I had two front fork mounted assist motors, manufactured by "Aquabug" company. They worked perfectly great, wish I still had one. One I gave away, the other got stolen a few years later out of my rented storage unit, along with the bicycle it was mounted on. I remember getting roughly around 50 miles per small tank of gas, around a quart. It was a two stroke motor, needed the oil/gas mix. Pretty quiet, very easy to operate, it bump started by flicking a lever that cammed a rubber drive wheel down onto the front tire, you pedaled to around 5 mph then dropped it, and that's it, it started. At a stop you could throttle it low to an idle and flick the lever to take it off the wheel. That's all it had for controls, well, it had an off switch that grounded it, just a toggle switch, on/off. Having it on the front along with pedaling going to the real wheel was pretty nice,at least I liked it. It was certainly better than the moped I have now, and cost much less than any moped I am aware of. You could still shoulder the bike, carry it upstairs to your apartment or carry it around obstacles, etc, something you ain't doing with a normal moped. The same company made very small outboard motors for boats using the same basic engine as well.
'That'll be 26 cents on pump 4... thanks'
For those interested in seeing Bike safety improvements, please see the Critical-Mass movement.
In cities all over the world, on the last Friday of the Month (traditionally) people take to the streets and have a group ride. Its informal and fun. It is an effort to display the proof that Car-Centric culture/construction/society has an alternative.
The group just rides around town at a modest enough pace for the children amoungst us to keep up -- just a tonne of fun.
Check it out!
oops, yup, the land of the armyvehicle-as-personal-transport :-))).
Me an Old European living in land of funny little curvy streets built 800 years before introduction of newfangled internal combustion engine. Tiny cars make sense in tiny streets and not so tiny fuel tax (gas here approx 5 dollars a gallon). Unpowered bicycles also useful for making me feel slightly less guilty about lack of other exercise...
I can outrun it on my road racing bike...
has nobody heard of the solex ?
http://www.americansolex.com/
I think the biggest fault of this design is that unlike the segway you do have a way of recharging the batteries of an electric motor. Just spin the crank! This will give an electric powered bike much more range than any gas powered device. Again, these devices have been around for a long time, I think this design is a step in the wrong direction.
You want to really make an impact with scooter technology? You make the batteries last longer.
--replying to my own post. I just googled for some more information on these and found this paste at
r c0 316.htm
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/nacc/a
"In reviewing your web site I noticed you had a recent inquiry (Mr L Langman) for information on the Bike Bug Bicycle Engine. You were correct: Japanese manufacture to the mid-80s. Marketed under three different names: TAS Spitz, AquaBug Bike Bug, Sears Free Spirit. Two-cycle 28cc front fork mounted bicycle engine - 20 mph, 200 mpg."
--there's a little more at that page. These things were great, I think about the only reason they didn't catch on better was the cost, it was a tad under 200 bucks at the time, too steep for 70's money. I've seen a lot of negative comments from the elitist bikers on motorized assist, but I can tell you, I used mine when I had it all the time, because it could go uphill without strain and haul freight! Instead of panniers, I installed just a normal kids seat on the back. The shape of the seat was great to stick a bag of groceries or my duffle bag of laundry to go to the laundrymat. The kids seatbelt kept the load in place. I used mine tons, really liked it. If I ever see a used one someplace like at a yardsale I'll buy it. When I had my shop I had my choice of bikes to ride, it's not like I only rode the engine assist one, if I wasn't hauling freight I would ride either my puch centennial alloy frame with the silk sew ups and campy components or one of my other ones I had. My fav though had to be the bike I thought of as my "pickup". I lived in mass at the time, then moved to vermont, where it REALLY came in handy with those hills up there.
Electric generators can be really small if they run really fast. Perhaps one of those little engines could spin a tiny generator and run a Segway. Segways use very little power most of the time - balancing is very efficient. BTW, my old RC engine is 0.4cid 1 HP @ 16000rpm. Too noisy and messy though.
Can it beat this?
l .a sp?Syasyu=BE-EBWT63
http://www.panabyc.co.jp/products/asp/CTLGdetai
It doesn't use a lead acid batteries, it uses NiMH batteries...you know, the ones of the current era. See that 110km? That's the range on a charge. See that 23.2kg? It's far from 80 pounds...and that's with no fancy aluminum frame. It also runs through the existing gears on the bike so, unlike the little r/c airplane/bike thingie, it's got gears and thus can climb those variations in elevation called hills...not to mention beat wind resistance.
Style? that's a cultural matter, not a technical matter.
Basically, all he's succeeded in doing is cutting the weight in half (over a 60-year-old design) and halving the gas mileage.
I will consider it, as soon as bike couriers consider it. I know they were offered to test it and refused.
My current setup is below 10 kg, and if you add anything of worth to it (Motor) you will still want to be able to carry it, cause there isn't always a pole you can lock it to.
Mine is carried up Stairs comfortably. Mine I can ride uphill in San Francisco, because the rear wheel pushes it forward.
Mine I can bunny hop over curbs.
This thing has no considerable advantage over a decent bicycle nor over a moped or a motorcycle. Offer me a conventional bike below 5 kg and I will consider spending money.
yeah, the guy's re-invented the moped.....and of course at very small engine sizes, 2 stroke (more pollution) is much more efficient than 4 stroke. My father's 49cc moped gets 90MPH if driven between 20-30MPH.
They don't belong on the streets with cars, they don't belong on the sidewalk with pedestrians, and "bike lanes" are a joke.
Long time ago I lived in Santa Barbara, CA. Probably the bicycly friendly city in the USA. I tried to use a bike as my primary transportation.
But, after being hit by cars twice, having my bike ruined and my colar bone broken both times; I gave up. Both times I was in the bicycly lane. Motorists and police see bicyclists as an annoyance.
If you actually go out and buy a racing bicycle (not a Toy-It-Is(TM) *uffy) from a bicycle shop, and ride it say, ONCE OR TWICE A WEEK, you can get these coparable figures.
:)
16 MPH in coasting, with only occasional peddling, and no too hard at that.
20 MPH sustained pedaling, a bit of work, but you CAN do it for 15+ min.
30 MPH peak, short burst only, appx 1 min..
And this is in Houston, where the humidity seldom drops below 90% and tempatures tend to be hot.
Of course, (ra-ta-ta-ta!) you mileage may vary! (rimshot)
Most people go into a bike shop, try a bike or two, and leave with a mountain bike. On my old mountain bike, I could never get it above 16 MPH. There are too many factors slowing you down. The big nobby tires are great for providing a bit of comfy suspension, but they kill you with rolling resistance. The generally heavier frames are built to withstand generally heavier use (like jumping or riding on the rough at speed) and that slows you down too. Those fat cushy seats are great for sitting on top of your bike (as if it were a chair) but are uncomfortable for bending over your bike (which will give you an extra couple of MPH due to less wind resistance).
That said, road bikes (aka racing bikes) also have their weaknesses. The extremely high pressure in the tires (mine are 128 PSI - no typo there!) make flats and blowouts much more common. They tend to cost more than a mountain bike of comparable quality, and although I ride mine on the streets, some streets are rough enough to qualify for offroad terrain.
Finally the fat bastards in The Land of the Fatsos have found a cure against exercise! Hurra hurra!
In the US, a moped is a motor vehicle. It must be registered and insured, and those operating it must have a driver's license.
A motorized bicycle could be ridden by anyone.
the "Spartamet" is very popular amongst older people. It is regarded as extremely uncool to ride one, as only elderly women are seen using them. They are very helpful for them riding against the strong winds that blow in the flat lowlands. check out some info about them from here where some guy gives instructions on how to modify them to get more speed & power (which is always cool)
The Bigger The Headache The Bigger the Pill
It never ceases to amaze me that people continue to try to sell motors for bicycles. I can see the appeal of a moped or a motorcycle, and while they have their own merits, they are completely different vehicles from the bicycle.
The beauty of the bike is that it's efficient, it's clean, it's quiet, and regular riding improves or maintains the health of the rider. It can be cheap to own and maintain.
Maybe a few people need motors for independence. I can see the elderly and some handicapped people using them. For the rest, I think this sums the potential of the motorized bicycle:
2-stroke engine? Bah! I say. If you want to be really creative, you would put a turbine on your bike. Not only do you save the environment with less oil being burned, but you also have a fricking turbine on your bike! How cool would that be?
Suddenly popping a wheelie isn't that impressive anymore. Alls you gotta do is drop the clutch.
IWARS.
People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
How about an electric hub motor (already existing) powered by a fuel cell, would that satisfy you?
Great, all 4 of you that can afford it can have one.
The rest of the world can continue to live on the company campus in dorms because they cannot commute even the shortest distances.
Whiners.
how is it the grandparent to this post with a simple excellent point is modded down and the parent to this post with misinformation is modded up?
Last I knew, Explorer is a Ford model, not GM. Nitpicking, I know, but if you're going to post "facts," it's best to keep them straight.
"It's a very tangled subsystem." --Windows kernel guru
Now americans can get even fatter.. they should make this work in REVERSE to give more resistance to the rider.
----------------------------
Esobofh - Currently drinking fresh mango juice.
That said, I use an electric lawnmower and drive a Prius, so my milage may vary
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
Two-stroke engines are heavy polluters, much worse than conventional 4-stroke engines. This is no environmental solution. It's part of the problem. Plus it probably whines like a banshee. Hydrogen fuel cell bikes are the way to go, with the hydrogen embedded in a solid/liquid "clathrate" medium. Sign up now for yours.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
...to a non-existent problem.
Let's start with the weight issue. The motor supposedly weighs 10lb, most of which appears to be centered around the front axle (hello difficult to control at slow speed bike) yet he claims that OEMs could make motorized bikes at under 30lb. Well...sure they could but they'd have to be using titanium bikes that start out around US$4000 and go up (fast and far) from there. In reality, most of the bikes that you'd put this one (like the one pictured) run in the 25-28lb range. Tack another 10lb plus a 200+lb fat fuck who can't be bothered to pedal a bike and I doubt you could get anything close to the predicted 20 mile range. And let's take a closer look at the mileage. Assuming that you really could get the predicted 20 miles/0.25 gallon that works out to 80mpg at best. Pretty good compared to a Ford Excursion but when you compare it to something like the VW Lupo which gets 65-85mpg or even one of the TDI Jettas or Golfs which get 50-60 mpg, it seems pretty pathetic.
Secondly...stop being so lazy and just pedal. The whole point of bikes is that you get some excercise and don't contribute any pollution to the atmosphere. If you're going to ride a bike, ride the freakin' bike. If you want a motor vehicle, get a car (or a motorcycle or scooter).
I have commuted to work/school almost exclusively by bike every day for the past 11 years (3-12 miles one way) and this product, while interesting from a tech perspective, seems pretty ridiculous and useless.
BFL
There's one thing computing teaches you, and that's that there's no point to remembering everything.
--Doug Copland
Who would actually buy, let alone use, this crap? If I want a motorized 2-wheeled vehicle, I certainly wouldn't use this, I'd buy a motorcycle. Likewise, when I want to bounce around on the trails, I have a beautiful Santa Cruz Heckler that just received a bunch of shiny new parts, including disc brakes. For long rides on the road, I have the bianchi. And for when I get bored, well, there is the trials bike and the downhill rig.
Typical lawn mowers are four stroke, dill hole.
Wouldnt it be better to stop being lazy and just ride the godammit bike without polluting the atmosphere anymore and, better, not contributing to those oil corps?
You're too generous. The analogy I heard was an hour of chain saw use vs. a cross-country trip in a 2003 Saab. The Saab pollutes less (less hydrocarbon emission), though it does generate a whole lot more CO2. Fit a four-stroke engine within the front fork of my bike, and we'll talk.
Funny "Mr Anonymous Coward" that last time I looked there wasn't a SINGLE 4 stroke lawn mower... Now maybe the riding mowers are, but why the hell would I want one of those... I'll take my electric anyday
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
... when you can get one of these?
Both models are identical in performance, functional operation, and
interface circuit details. The two models, however, are not compatible
on the same communications line connection.
-- Bell System Technical Reference
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