Slashdot Mirror

> Yup, that was intentional. I started using FF when it was
> still called Phoenix 0.3, and each release was like a
> Christmas present full of wonderful new and useful features.

The name was changed because of legal/trademark threats from Phoenix, the BIOS company. Mozilla first used "Firebird" for a while, only to find out that there was already a database called Firebird... oops... https://firebirdsql.org/ They eventually switched the name to Firefox.

No. http://tracker.firebirdsql.org...

PostgreSQL and Firebird make Oracle and MySQL look like pathetic jokes.

Because rolling your own database is the best solution.

And Free software is has the same level of scalability and transaction management as proprietary solutions.

A a database system (RDMS or not) such as Oracle DB is a product, you can compare it to competing vendor's products (IBM's DB2 and anyone else left whom Oracle hasn't already bought).

While solutions are nebulous farces of disastrous over-spending projects, where the consultants and their firms write their own requirements and/or contracts (or in other words, what amounts to a blank check). And are a godsend to incompetent IT managers or dead-locked management by committee IT departments everywhere.

So why did Oracle buy the companies behind Berkeley DB (Sleepycat Software) and MySQL (MySQL AB)? Because their products lacked transaction management and scalability? I don't think Berkeley DB claims transactional support, I think it does offer scalability, while MySQL has widely demonstrated both. Or did you think gdbm and Firebird are the only non-proprietorial database system out there?

Are you looking to contribute in the actual development of the database software or just looking at what database to use? I see lots of comments seem to imply the latter and focus on what is wrong with database x from a user viewpoint (a DBA is a user, an application developer is a user) - if you want to make your hands dirty you should really look into the community and how to get involved. MySQL has not been that great on Oracle days on external community so you might be better off looking at some of the numerous forks and how they treat their developers.

If you are looking for a way to get employed through knowing the insides of a database engine in the Open Source world I would suggest SQLite (it is really used everywhere nowadays) or as a little bit more niche product, Firebird - Firebird is a really nice database which can be used on embedded projects easily + has robust set of features and has a permissive license (I am a bit biased because the company I work for uses it as a core database engine...).

You have no idea how excited I was to see this headline on the front page. It seems like only articles about Apple and Android are able to start a good flame war. I miss the days when Slashdot was filled with heated discussions about Java vs C, or Postgres vs MS SQL. The most capable, and underrated database out there IMHO is firebird. Excellent for small to medium sized projects where full ACID compliance was necessary. Fast performance on modest hardware, small memory footprint (for a feature complete database server), can be embedded in an app, business friendly open source licence.

For me, the one advantage MySQL (and MariaDB, and even Apache Derby!) have over PostgreSQL is that there are versions that can be run stand-alone "out of the box" as a non-root user. PostgreSQL (AFAIK) needs to be installed, and needs to be installed as root (and you need to create a postgres user, etc.).

This is where Firebird beats them all. It's fast, powerful, featureful, and can be embedded (although not embedded as easily as SQLite).

I have found Firebird's performance is usually be better than MySQL which is itself is almost always faster than PostgreSQL. Postgres is the worst of the bunch.

Unfortunately Firebird doesn't get enough mention therefore many people don't know how good it is and support for it is lacking in many products.

if they want to use open source database. Try Firebird SQL if you want to go light (lighter than mysql in most cases I've seen), or go with the big boys with PostgreSQL.

While Firebird supports update or insert, who else does? Yes, the merge syntax is common, but that's a lot more annoying to use for day-to-day single-row updates in an OLTP environment. Also, what does "agile" have to do with it? Or did you not mean it in the project-management sense?

There are a lot plus a lot of good projects that don't get enough help.
For instance Firebird and PostgreSQL are both really good database projects. MySQL gets the most attention and is available on more web hosts so most projects make that the prime Database with often PostgreSQL as an after thought.
http://www.firebirdsql.org/ isn't dead but is almost invisible.
And then you have Lazarus + Freepascal which offers a very Dephi like system. It runs on Linux, Windows, and OS/X and there is a lot of cool code written in delphi out there that could now be ported to Linux but you hear very little about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_(IDE)
Again the project is alive and kicking but almost invisible.

Can we centralize the "alternatives to MySQL" thread here? My vote's for Firebird.

http://www.firebirdsql.org/

Firebird is a relational database offering many ANSI SQL standard features that runs on Linux, Windows, and a variety of Unix platforms. Firebird offers excellent concurrency, high performance, and powerful language support for stored procedures and triggers. It has been used in production systems, under a variety of names, since 1981.

This just goes to show you how out of touch those in the web community are with the greater open source community. I mean, the Firefox developers fucked up twice, with the second time being when they outright stole the name of the Firebird RDBMS.

No but we do have Firebird which is similar in features to pg but performs way better. In fact, Firebird is a like combination of MySQL (performance) and PostgreSQL (features).

Others include

• Firebird
• Ingres

And there are many more, relational and non-relational, out there.

I guess Rapid7 wants to do closed source versions in the future. That makes it necessary to buy the copyrights, or at least most of them and re-developing the stuff they could not buy.

Of course that puts them in competition with whatever open source version other people maintain. A previous example of that would be Interbase by Borland. Borland released the version 6.0 under an open source license, but reconsidered soon after and the next version was closed source again.
That one open source release was picked up by a group of developers and became the Firebird database (http://www.firebirdsql.org/). Interbase is still available commercially from Embarcadero, but I guess they lose some sales to its open source version.

problems

That's what I meant to begin with when I talked about switching databases. Right now I want to try Firebird but may try others too.

Falcon

PostgreSQL is still a *huge* player (in fact, they're pretty-much the only open-source, fully-transactional DB available).

I love PostgreSQL, but I have to acknowledge:

Firebird
H2
Ingres (ancestor of Postgres)
SQLite

None of these are Oracle-killers, but they are all robust, open-source SQL RDBMSs in their own right.

I'm already sick of innodb and myisam issues also falcon and maria are in alpha/pre alpha stages
maybe it's easier to write an new engine for an stable db like firebird/postgresql
I will post my progress on this page
http://mapopa.blogspot.com/search?q=mysql

ahh by the way firebird engine is stable for more that 20 years (triggers/transactions are normal things from that time)

http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php?op=history&id=beginning

I really think Google should rethink the name 'Chromium' for their browser on Linux. Don't be evil and all that.

Mozilla did it when their browser name clashed with an open source database project, too.

(anonymous lawyer): That sounds like a legal opinion by a non-lawyer who has heard that there is a requirement of "consideration" to form a contract. First of all, the grant of a license is not in itself a contract, anyway. I could grant you a license as a gift; that would not mean that I could revoke it at will anymore than I can require you to give back any other gift I've given you. Second, the requirement of consideration is something that is bound to be misunderstood by someone who has little knowledge of the law.

A person who publishes code (or a book or anything else) under the GPL has no right to revoke it. It becomes in the wild, as they say. This happened, for example, to Borland, which made its Interbase database available under the GPL and then changed its mind. Borland could prevent future versions of Interbase from being open sourced, but the version it made open source was in the wild and became the basis of what is now the Firebird open source database. (See http://www.firebirdsql.org/ ) (Firebird was not gpl'd, but same thing would have happend under gpl.)

Likewise, MySQL cannot revoke rights of anyone to use any version of MySQL that has been published under the GPL. If MySQL decided not to publish future versions under GPL license, anyone else would be free to form a project to continue open source development of a gpl'd version. This new project would not have same rights as MySQL, which is original creator of MySQL and has right to license under any license it wants. But anyone can fork MySQL and grant gpl licenses to others.

See, I can't stand XP compared to Linux but I like Vista better than anything else. XP always looked kinda bad to me, like a little too cute, and I liked it only really because it was a Windows NT kernel that was good for games.

Windows NT, 4.0, is the only version of Windows I liked. It also gave me the least amount of trouble, maybe that's why I preferred it.

I have both Vista and Ubuntu running on the same machine, each with its own drive, and I think Vista just blows Ubuntu out of the water.

What don't you like about Ubuntu? After getting sick and tired of Windows crashing on me, and MS wanting to treat users like criminals, I switched from Windows to OS X. When it came tyme to get a new computer I bought a Mac, when I had been using Windows for 10 years. I'm been seriously considering installing Ubuntu on my Mac to make it dualboot.

I program, and I've always been leaning towards Linux because its more C++ friendly

That's partially why I'd like to install Ubuntu on my Mac, development and programming. While there's X Code for Macs it's strictly for Macs and right now I'm using Eclipse for Java. I also want to work with Perl and maybe PHP, Apache, and Ruby. I thought about setting up LAMP but I'm not sure about MySQL, I've been thinking of trying Firebird instead.

there are so many zealots in the Linux camp

The same can be said of the Microsoft camp, as well as the Apple camp.

It's as futile as George Bush trying to make liberals happy, or Barrack Obama trying to make conservatives happy. You just can't.

I'm not sure I want Obama to prevail, and I voted for him. I don't like the idea of giving large businesses more taxpayer money. What needs to be done is to get government out of the way.

Falcon

Have you considered Firebird? I was recently introduced to it and it looks like a better option than MySQL / Drizzle.

The other obvious option is PostgresSQL, which looks fairly comparable to Firebird - the only reason I'm going with Firebird is that I can reliably remember how to pronounce it!

Cached IMAP is supported in a few clients, Firebird and kmail come to mind...

I guess you could keep your cache in a relational database but what about an IMAP client? hehe

If you're going to switch databases over the issue, you might as well consider other options, like Firebird: it's also free, I do believe the timestamps have better-than-second precision (at the very least it insists on showing me 4 extra digits I never use for anything), and it's certainly easier to install, setup, and admin than PostgreSQL (IMO). It has limitations, of course, and you should be careful to read the fine print, as you would with any product selection. I would worry that you're using some particularly esoteric features of PostgreSQL that won't translate well to Firebird, but if MySQL is even an option for you, that's highly unlikely.

Slashdot declined to carry the story I posted on it (yeah, yeah, grousing...), but Firebird 2.1 (release) came out three months ago, with some really nifty features like on-commit triggers that let you enforce constraints no other database will help you enforce (that I've seen -- Oracle certainly won't.) It rocks.

Your mileage WILL vary, but I'd recommend at least checking it out. Either http://www.ibphoenix.com/ or http://www.firebirdsql.org/.

It was originally called Firebird, a reference to the Phoenix and the idea that the app was born from the ashes of Netscape. They changed it after receiving complaints from the Firebird database people, keeping the "fire" and swapping out the animal. I assume the fox was chosen for the alliteration and for the image of the fox as being scrappy and independent. Fireslug just doesn't have the same ring...

http://www.firebirdsql.org/

Firebird (http://www.firebirdsql.org/) works with many programming languages so it is not tied to java, works fine with windows vista and operates without an installed server in its "embedded server" mode.

Yeah I've always seen PostgreSQL as an open source version of Oracle because both of them support PL/SQL. PostgreSQL may not be as good as Oracle is, but it is good enough for most projects that it doesn't have to be. Much better than MySQL anyway.

I sort of seen MySQL as only being partly finished and more like an open source version of SyBase but without stored procedures and triggers, etc, unless they recently added them and I didn't know it. MySQL was usually good enough for most small projects and web sites and when you needed to upgrade the database to advanced features you went to PostgreSQL or Oracle or even, shudder MS-SQL Server or Sybase. Of course there is always Firebird the open source version of the old Borland Innerbase which became the Inprise database and Inprise company after Borland made changes but the database dates way back to 1981. I think that Firebird can replace MySQL for an open source database if people give it the chance. I think they just got a Mac OSX 32 bit version and are working on the 64 bit Mac OSX version. It exists for many variations of Unix, as well as Windows. Under Vista you have to disable the control panel or else it breaks Vista's control panel but they are working on fixing that. The Flamerobin GUI is in alpha but it is being worked on as well. MySQL happened to be in the right place at the right time and got the web standard before Firebird did, but now that MySQL is starting to go closed source, Firebird is looking better as an alternative to MySQL. Instead of LAMP we might get LAFP some day or maybe LAPP with PostgreSQL replacing MySQL.

Me personally... I'm hoping Firebird gets some of what sun is losing. Firebird is very easy to administrate, supports an embedded mode for windows applications where you don't even have to install a server (the entire process exists within a dll file) and features a very functional multi generational architecture. My Firebird installations tend to be forgotten about after the software is initially set up, because it is so easy to use and administrate.

And for Firebird (http://www.firebirdsql.org) as well. :) I am going to celebrate! (Or maybe it is that Sun bought MySQL just to sweep in under the carpet so that it will not spoil their PostgreSQL interests? Probably not, but it's a funny idea nevertheless. ;-))

There are other alternatives and you can vote with your pocket
and use them

you can migrate mdb to firebird or sqlite or postgres and then send them the feedback
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=openoffice%20firebird&
http://www.firebirdsql.org/manual/migration-mssql.html
http://kexi-project.org/about.html

opensource projects accept the security patches that are created

Don't forget Firebird!

Some people aren't bothered at all about this. Fine.

Of those who are bothered, many are considering moving to PostgreSQL. That's not a dumb move to make. But for those still in limbo or teetering on some fence, I think this is a good time to mention an alternative, Firebird, FKA Interbase. Interbase/Firebird is an industrial-strength, standards-compliant, highly performing DB, and was way ahead of its time back in the day. I heard that Oracle just recently copied its update versioning mechanism. Interbase failed in the market solely due to Borland's incompetent marketing.

One of its big pluses is the low maintenance - the DB reorganizes itself periodically and can run indefinitely without losing performance so long as it doesn't run out of space.

No, I'm not affiliated with Interbase or Firebird in any way, just a happy user who would like to see the product get some more exposure.

Borland - Inprise - Borland - Code Gear (for the development stuff).

But they did one (slightly OT) good thing between all the namechanging:
they released a version of Interbase as Open Source, which has grown into the Firebird RDBMS. See
http://www.firebirdsql.org/

Here are a few other examples of free programs which I forgot to include. Like the others they are available in both Windows and Linux versions.

• GnuPG - The GNU Privacy Guard which can encrypt and sign you data and your communications
• DOSBox the Dos emulator for running many old DOS games and programs
• Firebird the relational database program
• PostgreSQL object-relational database management system
• Stellarium is a free open source planetarium

"Why use SQL express? It's more stable and more flexible than just using ODBC to connect to an Access database file. Plus you can use all other features that you can not use in Access. It's also the defacto standard for Visual Studio 2005 developers so it gets a lot of use now adays in development. It's also far easier to use than installing the clients for Oracle or MySQL and reduces your program's foot print. (1.2MB vs 35 MB)"

Well, SQL express is not the only small foot print database available. Firebird is small (see the embebed version), fast and easy to use on your programs. It is also FOSS (but can be linked to closed source software), so you can port it for any system you are desesperate to use.

Of course, integration with MS development tools is missing.

Loudly drop support for MySQL. Here are two excellent alternatives:

PostgreSQL
Firebird

Still, Debian provides good MySQL packages. Use them instead. If you need support, I'm sure you could find someone to provide it for you.

Wake me up when MythTV doesn't depend on a toy database and starts supporting real databases.

You are a long time Firefox user if you are still confusing it with this:
http://www.phoenix.com/en/Products/Trusted+Applica tions/Phoenix+FirstWare/FirstWare+Connect/default. htm#Where

or maybe this:
http://www.firebirdsql.org/

Seriously, more like PostgreSQL or FireBird.

Ingres. Here

Mysql Here

Postgresql Here

Firebird Here

You should look into Firebird or Ingres for an embedded relational database.

Firebird implements standard SQL. Firebird supports full SQL92 and most SQL99, according to the project website.

If so then their web page needs to be updated because the first sentence of the very first paragraph on the main page is: "Firebird is a relational database offering many ANSI SQL-92 features that runs on Linux, Windows, and a variety of Unix platforms."

Firebird relational database.

What about the Firebird relational database?

Evans Data says it is the best, in a survey done for 2005, but copyrighted 2003. (I'm uncertain how much they should be trusted.)

Compiere at the moment requires an Oracle database, so unless you want to shell out truckloads of $$$, you might want to take a look at Fyracle as covered by /. earlier for a way to make it work with the open-sourced Firebird SQL database.

"This query is called a left outer join because the table mentioned on the left of the join operator will have each of its rows in the output at least once, whe reas the table on the right will only have those rows output that match some row of the left table. When outputting a left-table row for which there is no right -table match, empty (null) values are substituted for the right-table columns.
Exercise: There are also right outer joins and full outer joins. Try to find out what those do."

when there really should be:

"TODO: There are also right outer joins and full outer joins. FIXME: We MUST write more."

Not to mention the "RTFS" answers in "TFM" for questions very frequently asked by beginners:

"4.3) How do I get a list of tables or other things I can see in psql?"
"You can read the source code for psql in file pgsql/src/bin/psql/describe.c."

Other than that I would say that PostgreSQL is definitely the way to go today. Once you get used to reading the source code as documentation (it is actually very clean and properly commented, so that's not such a big deal), you will really love it. And you will have the most important thing: ACID features. I hope it helps, I wish you the best luck.

See also:

1. http://www.postgresql.org/
2. http://www.mysql.com/
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySQL
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostgreSQL
5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebird_(database_se rver)
6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_database
7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_management_s ystem
8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACID
9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_model
10. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL
11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory
12. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiomatic_set_theory
13. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predicate_logic
14. http://www.glom.org/
15. http://www.servoy.com/
16. http://www.dotcomsolutionsinc.net/products/fmpro_m igrator/index.html
17. http://www.firebirdsql.org/

(Please forgive me if I repeat anything which has already been said. I started to write it as a first post but it took some time and I am sure that other

Two?

What about firebird? It's got almost all the features of postgres and runs on windows and has a small footprint.

I've been thinking of trying that with FireBird.

= 9J =