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Is MySQL Slowly Turning Closed Source?
mpol writes "Sergei from MariaDB speculated on some changes within MySQL 5.5.27. It seems new testcases aren't included with MySQL any more, which leaves developers depending on it in the cold. 'Does this mean that test cases are no longer open source? Oracle did not reply to my question. But indeed, there is evidence that this guess is true. For example, this commit mail shows that new test cases, indeed, go in this "internal" directory, which is not included in the MySQL source distribution.' On a similar note, updates for the version history on Launchpad are not being updated anymore. What is Oracle's plan here? And is alienating the developer community just not seen as a problem at Oracle?"
And is alienating the developer community just not seen as a problem at Oracle?
Pretty much exactly this.
"Is MySQL Slowly Turning TheirSQL?"
Larry=big
Ellison=douche
Silence is a state of mime.
Postgresql is also a Free Software multi-platform database. It was designed properly (unlike MySQL, Postgresqlwas designed with transactions in mind), has excellent internationalization support (proper 3 and 4 byte UTF, unlike MS SQL-Server with its UCS-2 or blob unicode [unless the very latest version has fixed this]).
Personally I prefer Postgresql to MySQL. While Postgresql looks more 'plain vanilla' I actually find it more straightforward to get easy things done (that is, pgadminIII doesn't look so flashy but I found it is much easier to get connected and get going than mysqlworkbench). YMMV of course, but if you are concerned about corporate control and the future of MySQL taking a look at Postgresql won't harm you - it is a nice(r) place to land if you have to.
Look, by no means FORK! am I a SQL expert, but I still feel FORK! compelled to express my FORK! opinon here. Face it folks, Oracle FORK! is evil. That said, if there is some way FORK! to create a parallel version, a version FORK! not intended to pay for a yacht, I would FORK! be all for it.
Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
No.
Oracle has been doing nothing more than gobbling competitors the whole time. Just because the haven't done it overnight doesn't mean that's not what they're doing.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
Oracle is killing computing science again... I hate Oracle.
But then, what did you expect from Oracle?
MariaDB is a drop in replacement for MySQL which was forked a while ago: http://mariadb.org/
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
Some of the tests are included with the code, but others are proprietary and only available under license. It bugged me and I've stayed with Berkeley DB. Info here (see "TH3 test harness").
Can someone please explain the sweet spot in which MySQL is a better option than both SQLite and PostgreSQL?
It seems to me that SQLite is a much better option on the very low end, and by the time MySQL would be a better choice, PostgreSQL is an even better choice.
We'll see.
Because that would be awesome!
Larry Ellison believes in one thing: making money.
If publishing test cases doesn't make money for Oracle and they're not required to do it by law (license, etc) then they won't do it.
Stop pretending Oracle cares about anything other than money and you'll have a much more accurate and healthy view of the beast.
Open Sores is for LOSERS
Hey, that actually explains why Oracle bought MySQL!
if they want to use open source database. Try Firebird SQL if you want to go light (lighter than mysql in most cases I've seen), or go with the big boys with PostgreSQL.
I'll take two of whatever this guy is smoking, plus his check from Oracle so I can buy more.
I'm not sure I share the same fear that Oracle will close-source MySQL. It's OpenSource, which means by definition that with every invisible line in the sand that they cross, more forks will appear.
Unless the version-enhancements that Oracle is adding are so great (um.. they're not) there's very little they can do to co-opt the technology without seeing it slip through their fingers.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
does testing anyway? ;)
Shit, I didn't know that! I saw MariaDB and I didn't think to google to find out who or what that is supposed to be.
I guess I'm spoiled by proper editing and writing where it should have been phrased as such:
"Sergei from MariaDB, a MySQL Fork, speculated on some changes within MySQL 5.5.27."
But never mind, we should all google and research everything posted here because, not only do most folks talk out of their asses, but by missing some detail like that gives some pedant a chance to post something to make himself feel superior for knowing some esoteric and minor piece of information.
Irony Alert.
Table-ized A.I.
I've downloaded it as recently as 2 months back, and found it gone yesterday. The download page at http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/mxj/ is empty and mxj connector is no longer listed under connectors - http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/. SQLite aside, MXJ was the easiest way to embed a MySQL database in your (Java) package.
95% of all sigs are made up.
It will do what it has always done under these circumstances, fork.
http://kb.askmonty.org/en/why-is-the-project-called-mariadb/
The 'MySQL' name is trademarked by Oracle, and they have chosen to keep that trademark to themselves. The name MySQL (just like the MyISAM storage engine) comes from Monty's first daughter "My". MariaDB continues this tradition by being named after his younger daughter.
What if Oracle is planning to slowly slowly kill off/degrade MySQL? By with-holding the test cases / not putting in effort into new features/development. If opensource contributors cant test properly - they would create a buggy, unstable/inferior product in the future. According to what I know - Oracle is in the database business, MySQL is "competing" database of sorts... Why would oracle want to keep it around? Its not in their interest, right?
Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
fucking retard
Unfortunately idiots usually constitute a vast majority.
WHY is still anyone using mysql, when there is Postgresql?
Forking worked for Libreoffice, I dont see why it couldn't work for MySQL...
in the title of a story.
would prevent a lot of bad written summaries.
maybe is time to switch to real database : Firebird SQL , PostgreSQL
http://blog.marcocantu.com/blog/firebird_gain_mysql.html
developer http://flamerobin.org
If Oracle does close out MySQL it would be a very bad move to public image. It was a mistake to sell MySQL to them in the first place. As it is right now, I cringe when I see the name Oracle because I know it is a product I don't want to deal with.
This would double overnight if MySQL were declared pariah non grata, which is precisely the negotiation taking place in this kind of discussion thread.
Speaking of PNG, you do recall the Unisys GIF debacle? When MySQL dies, may its tombstone read G.I.F.
PerconaDB is a drop in replacement for MySQL. If you don't know who Percona are, you're missing out on some magic - these guys are MySQL tuning and recovery experts. I'd trust this over MariaDB - never even heard of MariaDB until I saw this article. http://www.percona.com/software/percona-server/downloads/
// -- http://www.BRAD-X.com/ --
Sticky toilet paper
Think of Larry Ellison as you think of a lawn mower:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc#t=38m36s
New things are always on the horizon
We started migrating to Postgres 4 years ago now we use it exclusively, with the exception of a wordpress installation. We have never looked back, and have never regretted it either. make the switch properly and you will be relieved. We started to think about the migration the day we learned oracle owned mysql.
I'm sorry but this crap is extremely annoying. Every "unprotected sex with strangers" story brings out hundreds of trolls saying we should all use condoms and there are another million trolls with mod points to mod them up.
Every "use condoms" comment has deserved -1 redundant for the past several years. Some people actually prefer "unprotected sex with strangers" and anyone who knows about "unprotected sex with strangers" also knows about condoms so stfu already.
FTFY
Time for a fork
Who benefits from tests and changelog notes being part of the MySQL source distributions? The only people that absolutely depend on this are the MySQL forks, that is basically Percona and MariaDB/Monty Program AB. Oracle taking this closed source is basically saying 'fuck you' to their forks, in an attempt to force these forks to work harder to maintain compatibility with MySQL or face the fate of slowly drifting away from mainline MySQL.
As has been observed elsewhere in this discussion, about everything is written for MySQL with anything else bolted on as an afterthought. Not being compatible to whatever is current MySQL for a for means going the way of the Drizzle project - easily better and cleaner than MySQL, but useless, as nothing runs on it any more.
And that is what Oracle wants to achieve here.
As for the suggestion of alternatives: Sqlite isn't. Anybody who even suggests that does not even understand the problem. Postgres can become an alternative, but has a lot work to do - in educating a userbase, in helping to make migration easier and quite a bit of performance work, actually.
Several years ago, I watched an interview with oracle's owner ( can't even recall his name ) - he was saying so mad things about competitions, open source, and against Microsoft 's dictatorial/anti-conpetition behaviours. HA-HA-HA - Now watch Oracle's behaviours today.....
Oracle bought it, and they aren't in the habit of giving stuff away.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Oracle is either slowing winding down or slowly locking up MySQL. For my company, we have a few hundred installations of commercial-grade MySQL. The newer licensing model meant it was cheaper for us to buy Oracle SE for these installations (and eat some transition dev costs) than to keep with MySQL. Additionally, we are evaluating the "Golden Gate" heterogenous replication platform. The wrinkles we are having with the MySQL side of O.G.G. technology, combined with the attitude of their sales and support staff, indicates to us this particular team views MySQL with modest disdain and is only grudgingly working with it to keep that "heterogenous" feature listed on the wrapper. Very much Oracle's red headed step-child.
Oracle is one of the most predatory companies out there - destroying everything it touches... Of course it wants to turn MySQL closed source... Of course, most people are already switching to Hadoop - it may not be as convenient, but it avoids the "Oracle touch"...
Fortunately, I make the calls for a number of contracts, and people have finally started to see all those dollars flowing to Oracle, for a DB that doesn't keep up, or do what you need... So when I tell them we can remove these licensing costs, it makes them sit up and take notice...
It is not like LibreOffice is any good or even an improvement. If anything, the fork is a piece of crap that can't even re-open documents it generated.
There are multiple open source SQL databases that are a hell of a lot better than MySQL. PosgreSQL being on the top of that list. So why fork a turd??
Maybe its just me but if why is this a big deal. If MySQL goes closed source then just switch to one of the hundreds of other databases and run with it.
Nuff said.
So the situation with Oracle has got to get worse before it can get better, but then you'll see a sudden shift where developers and hosting providers start migrating en masse to some alternative, be it Postgresql or MariaDB.
(And if I may add, "MariaDB" seems like a weak branding choice because the name doesn't give you any sort of hint that it's a replacement for MySQL. Maybe calling it "OurSQL" would have been more effective/suggestive.)
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
FWIW, SQL Server 2012 supports UTF-16 over UCS-2, so they are getting closer...
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
in the title of a post.
would prevent a lot of bad written comments.
Because it can be quite a lot of effort to switch. MySQL specific extensions are often used throughout projects, most web projects have been written for MySQL, and most cheap web hosting only supports MySQL. So you have to convince the authors of all your tools (eg Drupal, Joomla, SMF, etc) to switch from MySQL to PostgreSQL, and then you can switch your internal projects, and then change web hosts to someone that supports Postgres. Despite being open source MySQL pulled an "Embrace and Extend" on SQL, though it didn't Extinguish.
Not a sentence!
I maintain a utility named peg that makes it straightforward to install a local copy of PostgreSQL in your home directory. It's aimed at developers who want a local copy they can tinker with as a non-root user. It even includes shell aliases for starting and stopping the server. If you have all the necessary development tools to compile PostgreSQL, you can have a working install in four lines of typing:
I haven't made things like building from one of the stable release versions easy yet, but that's mainly because my users so far use peg to hack on the PostgreSQL code and write/test new features. That would be easy enough to add if I saw any demand for it.
Compilation might see over the line of not being an "out of the box" install. Packaging the software takes far too much build and QA time for the people involved in that to bother for this fairly small niche, people who want home directory, non-root installs.
Note that while I mainly targeted peg at Linux systems, I've tested it and it can work just fine from OS X too. When I last used Homebrew to get all the development tools on the system on that platform, peg Just Worked after that.
No. The cause is lazy editors who don't bother to make sure a summary answers all the questions the reader needs answered. A couple of classes in journalism might help.
Ten years ago, when MySQL was an immature product that only pretended to be relational, I would have agreed with you. But I'm told by people who have tried to drink the NoSQL lemonade that newer databases like MongoDB still have a lot of problems, while MySQL has undergone a lot of bug removal and feature improvement. They'd rather put up with the problems of MySQL and have a back end they can count on.
I don't know the first thing about either of these two DBs, which perhaps makes me a fair[ish] witness. No axe to grind anyway. :-)
Purely from reading the responses in this thread, it appears that the GGP was right, and PostgreSQL is not binary-installable in one's own directory for personal unprivileged operation. All the "Yes you can!" responses seem to have come from knee-jerk fanbois, who when pressed admitted that at the very least one needs root to create some user/group IDs.
Although I have no personal interest in it either way, why doesn't the PostgreSQL community make unprivileged install and operation possible? The DB appears to be better then MySQL in almost every other respect (I don't know that, I'm just repeating what I read here), so this stands out like a sore thumb. Wouldn't it be a good idea to provide this?
Although I'm not afraid of Postgres (like Monty wanted you to be in the day -- "Who needs foreign keys?"), I'd like to ask what kind of experiences people have have using it for PHP/web development as a MySQL replacement.
Specifically, what about the Vacuum thing?
And replication? Other stuff?
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Because the Postgresql trolls flooding every MySQL story have left a permanent bad taste in my mouth.
Wordpress
Especially when Microsoft SQL Server gets you the database engine and all the Business Intelligence Tools (Analysis Services, SSIS, SSRS) in one package?
yes - I like adminer so I can do some work from any PC in the company. but for serious work I prefer Navicat (www.navicat.org). Not free but just excellent. especially the many import/export formats
When a Java program run on a non-UNIX system tries to open a UNIX domain socket, what is Java supposed to do?
This has been obvious for some time (InnoDB) which is why many needing similar functionality have moved on to PostgreSQL.
One reason developers stay with MySQL is that several web hosting providers that I have worked with either don't carry PostgreSQL or charge substantially more per month for access to a PostgreSQL database than for access to a MySQL database. This leads to developers continuing to support MySQL if they want their applications to be used.
Halfway solution: at least get the apps to move to MariaDB.
Good luck getting Go Daddy and other entry-level shared hosting providers to move to MariaDB.
Why are you not using a Linux distribution that supports postgresql like Ubuntu, Redhat, SuSE, etc?
Because someone on shared web hosting might not have budgeted for an upgrade to a VPS. Shared web hosting providers have been able to get away with charging substantially more for PostgreSQL.
Can you take GPL code, dust off the license and release it as closed source? The "version" of mySQL they bought has to remain free and ALL derivative works have to remain free.
Now I realize they can port proprietary Oracle type stuff over and KEEP it closed; but the GPL keeps the opposite from happening.
Is there a case here? Or are they letting open code die from attrition and slowly "borg-ing" proprietary code in for those dead pieces? TFA, as far as I can tell, is only pointing out a change in the testing methods/structures; not DB source code. Maybe they are preparing to borg in closed code .... but have they already?
Confused/concerned.
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
Because most applications more serious than a blog have lots of code written with mysql "assumptions" in mind, and the cost of changing over is significant. Just using an abstraction layer apparently isn't enough, if my buddy's (Mysql | Postgresql) support nightmares are any indication.
Mysql works enough that I'm in no hurry to switch.
I'd switch if I had time, but as the saying goes we have bigger fish to fry.