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For those who want a little background on Altivec, of course Wiki has a description here. Apple, who now ships Altivec in every system they make has a pretty good page here and Motorola nee Freescale has one here.

The benefits of Altivec can be truly astounding for those processes that can be "vectorized". After all putting these kinds of calculations in hardware has got it all over software computation. It kind of reminds me of when I got one of those Photoshop accelerator hardware cards (Radius Photoengine with 4 DSPs on a daughter card linked to the Thunder series video card) for my IIci. Photoshop filter functions ran faster on that IIci than they did on much later PowerPC systems simply because you now had four hardware DSPs running your image math.

Factsheets on these designs:

http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/fact_shee t/MPC7448FACT.pdf
http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/fact_shee t/MPC8641DFACT.pdf

Factsheets on these designs:

http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/fact_shee t/MPC7448FACT.pdf
http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/fact_shee t/MPC8641DFACT.pdf

Freescale (ex-Motorola) sell them for $649, and Gentoo sell complete systems for $999 (of which $100 is donated to the Gentoo foundation). Genesi advertise the mobos+CPU at $600-615, depending on CPU.

But yeah, they're still beaten in price by the Mac Mini.

Freescale (ex-Motorola) sell them for $649, and Gentoo sell complete systems for $999 (of which $100 is donated to the Gentoo foundation). Genesi advertise the mobos+CPU at $600-615, depending on CPU.

But yeah, they're still beaten in price by the Mac Mini.

Freescale's short range uwb (which is not the same thing as zigbee) should be leaking out into the hardcore hobby market sometime this year.

Would take a fair amount of work at this point, but unwiring the entertainment system is one of the markets they are targetting.

As far as the practicality of dual core vs. single core machines goes ... Without concurrency there's no boost; with concurrency usually there is some boost and it is possible, in fact, to have a dual core system be faster than single core at twice the speed. It's not common but it all depends on what you're doing.

Yes, I already read the concurrent programming article a while back, but I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm for it. I think the author blurs program performance and performance programming. The first is about raw speed, the second is about making your program run X percent faster than your competitors' do. As such the "free lunch" he describes never really existed for people who actually do performance programming. Concurrency is already used whenever possible since you never know when you might be runnning on an SMP machine. Abstract machines can be massively parallel regardless of the hardware underneath. For everybody who doesn't do performance programming, the problem usually comes down to decoupling the performance bottleneck from the rest of the application, then handing it off to a performance person. (They still have to make sure their code is reasonably fast and lean, but parallelism isn't a big issue)

Anyway, I'm getting OT. I think the bottom line is that for the types of tasks I do, the performance benefit of SMP in a laptop sounds a lot better than the benefit of a G5.

As far as the practicality of dual core vs. single core machines goes ... Without concurrency there's no boost; with concurrency usually there is some boost and it is possible, in fact, to have a dual core system be faster than single core at twice the speed. It's not common but it all depends on what you're doing.

Yes, I already read the concurrent programming article a while back, but I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm for it. I think the author blurs program performance and performance programming. The first is about raw speed, the second is about making your program run X percent faster than your competitors' do. As such the "free lunch" he describes never really existed for people who actually do performance programming. Concurrency is already used whenever possible since you never know when you might be runnning on an SMP machine. Abstract machines can be massively parallel regardless of the hardware underneath. For everybody who doesn't do performance programming, the problem usually comes down to decoupling the performance bottleneck from the rest of the application, then handing it off to a performance person. (They still have to make sure their code is reasonably fast and lean, but parallelism isn't a big issue)

Anyway, I'm getting OT. I think the bottom line is that for the types of tasks I do, the performance benefit of SMP in a laptop sounds a lot better than the benefit of a G5.

Current Powerbook G4s are defficient because of their slow 167MHz FSB and battery life.

Freescale (formerly Motorola SPS) is releasing a new G4 core, the e600, with and integrated DDR momory controller. It will be available as single and DUAL CORES.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview. jsp?code=DRPPCDUALCORE

A dual core e600 with IMC would rock for performance and reduce the power sucking system controller in current machines.

Plus with Freescale's "SemiCustom Processor" program Apple could take some of that 6 billion that have in the bank and pay to have a HT link replace the 4 Gigabit controllers on the CPU.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview. jsp?nodeId=02VS0l72156067

They've already got the HyperTransport license!
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20920

Then they can start using any number of chipsets from ATI / Nvidia.

Dual Core G4 in '05!

Current Powerbook G4s are defficient because of their slow 167MHz FSB and battery life.

Freescale (formerly Motorola SPS) is releasing a new G4 core, the e600, with and integrated DDR momory controller. It will be available as single and DUAL CORES.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview. jsp?code=DRPPCDUALCORE

A dual core e600 with IMC would rock for performance and reduce the power sucking system controller in current machines.

Plus with Freescale's "SemiCustom Processor" program Apple could take some of that 6 billion that have in the bank and pay to have a HT link replace the 4 Gigabit controllers on the CPU.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview. jsp?nodeId=02VS0l72156067

They've already got the HyperTransport license!
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20920

Then they can start using any number of chipsets from ATI / Nvidia.

Dual Core G4 in '05!

Pity they don't list the CPU's model number. I think it's a 7447a, which freescale lists as having a maximum clock of 1420 MHz. Perhaps Apple has a separate, exclusive supply line. From the looks of things, the 7447a can't really take advantage of DDR memory, either.

Freescale does produce a Dual Core G4, but those chips also have 1MB of L2-- a feature that Apple would be sure to trumpet. They're 32 bit, though, so Apple is unlikely to use them in a "Powerbook G5"

Pity they don't list the CPU's model number. I think it's a 7447a, which freescale lists as having a maximum clock of 1420 MHz. Perhaps Apple has a separate, exclusive supply line. From the looks of things, the 7447a can't really take advantage of DDR memory, either.

Freescale does produce a Dual Core G4, but those chips also have 1MB of L2-- a feature that Apple would be sure to trumpet. They're 32 bit, though, so Apple is unlikely to use them in a "Powerbook G5"

my $.02 is that from the data I have collected, the low power consumption G5 may not really more powerful than G4+, especially the new 7448. I am not an expert on the performance issue. If you think I am wrong, let me know. Because I am also trying to figure out which one is better.

But if you are looking for something like 64bit mobile computing, wait for pbook G5.

No. The G4's limited FSB limits its power significantly.

Old news. According to this, the dual-core processors have moved the memory controller to the CPU, so there is no longer artificial restrictions on FSB speed. These things have a FSB speed of 667mhz.

They also use 15W of power, and have a clock speed of 1.5ghz. Not too shabby, no?

The old ones that are used, have a 200mhz memory bus, but both the new single-core and dual-core support 667mhz buses.

The Register
Freescale marketing doc
Freescale PDF - more technical

The Register
Freescale marketing doc
Freescale PDF - more technical

Here are a few companies already producing silicon:

Chipcon
Freescale
Atmel
CompXs

Just FYI

Check your facts.

Inmos
Motorola

This won't be the old school G4, it'll probably be the new FreeScale model, perhaps with dual cores. They're priced for the embedded market, which is similar to this machine.

I'd love to see a new Apple G4 - that way my new iBook G4 won't be written off as obsolete in 10.6.

MaxStream, Inc. http://www.maxstream.net/ is parterning with Freescale Semiconductor http://www.freescale.com/ to make a ZigBee module. Having a module option will make it easier, quicker and cheaper to integrate ZigBee into electronic devices. Here is an article in EE Times about it: http://http//www.commsdesign.com/news/market_news/ showArticle.jhtml?articleID=55301590/

Then let me break it down for you, since this is apparently so difficult.

The processors that Apple dubbed the "G4" are various iterations of the Motorola 74xx core. Targetted at the embedded and low-power draw computing markets, originally, the highly efficient design was very competitive with anything else in the same price bracket for a while.

When Motorla spun off their semiconductor division, it took the name Freescale and began to ally itself with other technology firms. Right now, Freescale, Phillips, and STMicroelectronics are sharing fabrication space in a facility they built in France. This site, known as Crolles2, is intended to be a next-generation workhorse and research lab, where they can apply the lessons learned from the failing and lagging Motorola line. They'd had successfuly 90nm test runs as early as 2003, with engineering samples being produces in 2004, and a plan to start the sampling process for 65nm in 2005.

The product line for Freescale is one of legacy - older Motorla cores like the 74xx series, the 603e, and others - and some new designs. Among the new designs are the e300 and e500 embedded systems chips (shipping now), and the e600 and e700 designs. The first appearance of the once-e600 will be the MPC9461D, which is a dual-core enhanced 74xx chip that will have two 128-bit AltiVec SIMD units, 1 MB of L2 cache per processor, on-die memory control and access to DDR2 (up to 667mhz), four on-die MACs for networking, encryption protocol support on the chip, and the ability to scale past 1.5ghz (the current high-end for 74xx cores).

As a stepping stone between the present and the future, Freescale is revising the existing MPC7447A processor. Breaking from the traditional upper limit of 167mhz on the MPX system bus, they're offering it at 200mhz on the bus, with a jump in core frequency to 1.8ghz. This compares to the previous high-end chips, the MPC7447A and older 7445/7455, with higher clocks and system access ability but lower power draw.

There... Just as geeky, but now more informative.

Then let me break it down for you, since this is apparently so difficult.

The processors that Apple dubbed the "G4" are various iterations of the Motorola 74xx core. Targetted at the embedded and low-power draw computing markets, originally, the highly efficient design was very competitive with anything else in the same price bracket for a while.

When Motorla spun off their semiconductor division, it took the name Freescale and began to ally itself with other technology firms. Right now, Freescale, Phillips, and STMicroelectronics are sharing fabrication space in a facility they built in France. This site, known as Crolles2, is intended to be a next-generation workhorse and research lab, where they can apply the lessons learned from the failing and lagging Motorola line. They'd had successfuly 90nm test runs as early as 2003, with engineering samples being produces in 2004, and a plan to start the sampling process for 65nm in 2005.

The product line for Freescale is one of legacy - older Motorla cores like the 74xx series, the 603e, and others - and some new designs. Among the new designs are the e300 and e500 embedded systems chips (shipping now), and the e600 and e700 designs. The first appearance of the once-e600 will be the MPC9461D, which is a dual-core enhanced 74xx chip that will have two 128-bit AltiVec SIMD units, 1 MB of L2 cache per processor, on-die memory control and access to DDR2 (up to 667mhz), four on-die MACs for networking, encryption protocol support on the chip, and the ability to scale past 1.5ghz (the current high-end for 74xx cores).

As a stepping stone between the present and the future, Freescale is revising the existing MPC7447A processor. Breaking from the traditional upper limit of 167mhz on the MPX system bus, they're offering it at 200mhz on the bus, with a jump in core frequency to 1.8ghz. This compares to the previous high-end chips, the MPC7447A and older 7445/7455, with higher clocks and system access ability but lower power draw.

There... Just as geeky, but now more informative.

Then let me break it down for you, since this is apparently so difficult.

The processors that Apple dubbed the "G4" are various iterations of the Motorola 74xx core. Targetted at the embedded and low-power draw computing markets, originally, the highly efficient design was very competitive with anything else in the same price bracket for a while.

When Motorla spun off their semiconductor division, it took the name Freescale and began to ally itself with other technology firms. Right now, Freescale, Phillips, and STMicroelectronics are sharing fabrication space in a facility they built in France. This site, known as Crolles2, is intended to be a next-generation workhorse and research lab, where they can apply the lessons learned from the failing and lagging Motorola line. They'd had successfuly 90nm test runs as early as 2003, with engineering samples being produces in 2004, and a plan to start the sampling process for 65nm in 2005.

The product line for Freescale is one of legacy - older Motorla cores like the 74xx series, the 603e, and others - and some new designs. Among the new designs are the e300 and e500 embedded systems chips (shipping now), and the e600 and e700 designs. The first appearance of the once-e600 will be the MPC9461D, which is a dual-core enhanced 74xx chip that will have two 128-bit AltiVec SIMD units, 1 MB of L2 cache per processor, on-die memory control and access to DDR2 (up to 667mhz), four on-die MACs for networking, encryption protocol support on the chip, and the ability to scale past 1.5ghz (the current high-end for 74xx cores).

As a stepping stone between the present and the future, Freescale is revising the existing MPC7447A processor. Breaking from the traditional upper limit of 167mhz on the MPX system bus, they're offering it at 200mhz on the bus, with a jump in core frequency to 1.8ghz. This compares to the previous high-end chips, the MPC7447A and older 7445/7455, with higher clocks and system access ability but lower power draw.

There... Just as geeky, but now more informative.

We know software that's as bulletproof as our democracy deserves can be written

We do?

I suppose what you mean to see is that it ought to be at least as good as what the banks get is.

I don't think that's good enough, particularly when you consider how much goes on that the banks are covering up because it's more profitable to let the money flow anyway.

One more thing that bugs me, and no one talks about it. The CIA or someone is supposed to be able to read the radio signals from your keyoard and screen, right? What's to stop them from reading the radio signals from an eVoting machine's touchscreen?

Not to mention, what's to stop them from hiding a little UWB chip on the motherboard? Freescale's UWB is supposed to be so low power and scattered you can only hear it on the receiver.

The development package that they are offering it for appears to be the $5000 mobileGT Total5200 Unfortunately a bit-pricey for my homebuilt telematics project- I'll keep using the old laptop.

OK an ARM7 is going to kick its ass, but you can write reasonably powerful code in 68000.

Cunningly, the 8641D can not only appear to the host OS as two processors, but is capable of running a separate operating systems on each core.

So when the dual core G4s do come out I could run 2 separate operating systems simultaneously?

Not necessarily. Freescale's Web site speaks of them as a vendor of embedded microprocessors; perhaps that feature is intended for use in embedded systems, where the OS can be tweaked as necessary to handle two processors sharing an I/O bus and peripherals, so that doesn't necessarily imply that the dual-core processor magically turns any system into which it's plugged into two separate systems that can boot separately and communicate separately with peripherals on the system.

(BTW, when I tried Googling for "8641D freescale" and "MPC8641D freescale" to see if I could find anything giving details about that feature - nothing turned up - Google asked whether I wanted "firesale" instead of "freescale". Is Google expressing its opinion of Motorola's spinning off Freescale?)

(No, don't bother explaining to me how that Google feature works; I'm already aware of it. "It's a joke, son....")

Probably, a better HD-replacement solution would be based on MRAM, which is being steadily developed and is going to become available quite soon (the article linked mentions late 2004).

If you don't want CPU choices, get a Mac!

Motorola spunoff (all|a large section) of their IC department and thus was born Freescale. They've been making CPU's for apple for decades.

IIRC, PowerPC was engineered to be backwards compatible with 68k. To preserve apple's software. The main dis-advantage of this is that you'd have to support the umpteen billion addressing modes.

There is a RISC'ified alternate side though: The ColdFire processors. They've been a uClinux target for a while.

However, whats truly notable is that the new MFC54xx series has a mmu. No need for uClinux, it runs real linux. Quite well i'd imaging: 133mhz DDR ram, 433 mhz, pci-interface, dual ethernet (100 mbit), usb and onboard crypto accelerator. All with a low advertised power consumption.

Still awaiting the Base Support Package. C'mon Metroworks.

Myren