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Think Secret Predicts Sub-$500 Headless Mac
eadint writes "I have just read an article posted on Think Secret that discusses a
confirmed $499
Apple box sans monitor. According to the article, this has been
under development for almost one year and may be available towards the
end of 2005Q1. The system is rumored to be based on a G4 with 256MB
of RAM , 40-80GB HD with a combo drive (sorry, no SuperDrive). Although Apple has stated in the past that they have no motivation to
compete in the sub-$600 PC market, this system was based on polls showing that more people would buy it after initial exposure
to the iPod." "Confirmed" seems a strong word, but I hope this is more than wishful thinking.
I've never bought an Apple computer because the prices are too high to be an impulse purchase. At $500, though, I would pick one up along with a $50 keyboard/monitor switch and start playing around with it.
Plus, at $500, geeks can afford to buy it and find out if it's easy to get their work done on it. The easier it is to switch my day-to-day work over gradually to an Apple, the more likely I'd be to do it. I'm sure I'll have a couple/few apps that I have to run on Windows, but if you put them both on my desk and let me toy with both, I bet I'd be more likely to run my MS-only stuff on a virtual machine.
Could I get a $500 used Mac with a CRT monitor? Sure, but who wants that big bulky thing around? Instead, give me something I can use with a USB KVM switch, and then I can explore it on my own pace.
What's your damage, Heather?
One of the largest drawbacks for macs for people buying PC's for the first time is their cost. People love the way they look, but don't want to shell out the extra cash. If they can compete on an even field, I bet their marketshare will go up dramatically.
One for each person I have to support on an unofficial basis once a month. It would be cheaper than my time. However, they'd be stuck using their old monitors; no cool 23" Cinema Display for you!
But please add PCI-slots.
I have asked for such a Mac for years... since they discontinued the cube...
I think it'd be a great decision... lets see how much it canablizes on Power Macs though.
I imagine this (if it will actually exist) would be like the eMac: base model low specs with the combo drive and 256 MB ram, but you can upgrade from there so a Superdrive will set you back an additional $100.
;).
Kind of like the Dell machines that start at $400 or so, then by the time you add on the usual needs (bump up the RAM to at least 512) they come out to $500 - $600.
If this is the case, Apple now has a great chance to gain market share. I've wondered for years what would happen if a headless iMac comes out (since everybody already owns a monitor, why buy a machine with another one anyway?).
If it becomes popular, I wonder if more game companies will go the Blizzard route and dual-release their software for both the PC and the Mac. Hm. Well, I've got an hour before I have to go to work - time for a little Warcraft
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I think i would pick one up if I could run the same software as any other macs can run.
I would still keep my PC's, but I would love access to FCP and Motion.
It's all nice and well, but i doubt it will convince many PC users to switch. Mainly because, apart from the hardware costs, you have to keep in mind the costs of new software and also the implementation costs of learning to use the new hardware. I am sure its not that difficult if you can get along with Windows, but it still takes time away from revenue generating work. Still it's a step in the right direction for Apple, let's hope they can eat a bit more into the Windows "monopoly".
This is not the sig you are looking for...
Face it, geeks know the power of OSX but Apple hasn't done a great job of selling why a Mac today is differnet from the Macs of yesteryear. People either have ancidotal stories of how Macs don't play nice with Windows (which was never really true) or they have experiences with Mac-snobs or anti-Mac-snobs that have put them off even giving it a chance.
I recommended we look at replacing some of our desktop machines with eMacs or iMacs as a trial last year and senior management looked at me like I was nuts. "But...But...it's not a Dell! And it Doesn't-Run-Windows(tm)! How will anyone get any work done?"
It's harder to convince senior management to put out $20,000 for a ten box trial, but $5000 is much more palatable
So go Apple! Build your boxes; they'll sell like hotcakes (especially if you make a $700 headless mac / iPod bundle).
The biggest selling point is obviously security. EVERY average Joe computer user I know is compromised with spyware and viruses (especially those with kids). I tell everyone who'll listen to buy a Mac when they're looking for a new PC, because it'll actually work after two weeks of use. It's nice to see that Apple might actually have something affordable for these folks.
www.lonseidman.com
the price difference between 40 and 80gb hdds is small. The price difference between 256mb and 512mb of RAM is not large.
The average Joe's perception of difference between a computer with 40gb of hdd & 256mb of RAM vs one with 80gb of hdd and 512mb of RAM as huge as a "3 megapixel camera" vs a "5 megapixel camera".
Apple needs to understand that underspeccing their computers to make a few dollars more per unit or to have the price slightly lower, actually costs them more than it makes. It furthermore makes people take Apple less seriously - they keep trying to push their out-of-date computers, *and* they're underspeccing them as if they're old stock or they're trying to cut every cent off of costs.
I seem to remember Commodore having a similar over-priced highend + underspecced low-end strategy.
"But, I can build an AMD 87GHZ box overclocked with a gajillion megs of video ram for $1.23 Canadian, why would I buy a Mac?"
"oohhh... I didn't know Schopenhauer was a philosopher!"
It is also down to the ipod, apple wants the bigger marketshare and this could be the best way to do it. Since it is supposed to complement an existing system, power shouldn't be an issue either. However people will have a windows mentality and expect a $499 Mac to play DOOM 3 as does some PC's already do. This thing cannot be to slow or to fast.
What might be nice is if this thing is upgradable (other than the usual HD and memory), if one can upgrade an Xserve Gcard then I see no reason for this to be able to. But then the other consumer machines would need this ability, which they won't get as you need to go higher than that and get a Powermac. It would look weird having your lowest and highest models with that capability. I only mention it because it is another feature a windows user might expect.
They need to satisfy their intended market with more than just a low price (maybe?) if they want average pc users aboard the mac train.
Jonathanjk.com
It would be interesting if it had an iPod dock built in given the target market. I know you can connect a dock via a Firewire cable, but with a built-in dock, Apple could market this baby Mac as an iPod accessory.
Last summer I read from a south asian government press release that Apple would be working with said government to build a cheap system for use only in that market. I firmly believe this rumored, stripped down machine is for that market.
Here's the press release
The register has this to say about it:5 00_im ac/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/29/sub-
Sounds sensible.
Hook it up to your TV and/or an airport express (or whatever that wireless streaming audio thingamajig is called) and go.
Of course, a standalone DVD player these days costs $50
"It is unclear how big the hard drive capacity will be, although sources indicate it will be between 40GB and 80GB."
Surely if they're targetting iPod users they'd bundle a bigger hard drive given that iPod's currently come with 20-60GB capacity?
This idea has already been tried with blade servers and, to a lesser extent, thin clients. Apple also produced a "pizza box" style Macintosh many years ago that took off in schools but not much elsewhere.
The problem with these designs is that they're missing the goal of having one invisible, large storage box providing desktop "heads" for all the monitors in a home. Servers are still too geeky/complicated for the average home user. Apple is still thinking small (1 or 2 tiny PCs sprinkled around the house). The company that comes up with a single server for the home that provides multiple desktop heads and enough storage for media will "win".
Even given the reduced specs and the absence of a monitor, does it mean that Apple charges a huge premium on its brand name? Obviously, the parts aren't as commoditized as the equivalent PC ones, but I can't imagine the components warranting such a high cost on mid/high-end models. So, will Apple risk the sales of higher-priced models - the ones that most Apple fans will currently afford to purchase - with the introduction of a cheaper introductory model?
A blog like any other.
First of all, in these ranges of price, Apple is by essence unable to compete in terms of price/performance ratio. This is not breaking news.
The capabilities of those computers would be seriously lagging behind those of other Macs. The Macs made their fame by performing well in some niche markets : graphism, video.. If this Mac performs poorly in these situations, it's not a Mac. And I'm not talking about the applications most used by the targeted audience (MP3 savvy young people). Hell you got 1/10th of the games available on PC and with a lag that can be years.
So why buy a Mac if a x86 computer of the same price range can fit well better your needs ? Because, hey there are ads for iPod everywhere, iPod must good, so Apple is good and this Mac is good for me (the fancy ad told me so !) ?
My 2 cents.
in the summer of 2005 i will either be buying a new Mac or building my own PC depending on the money i have available, i never buy OEM PCs and always build my own selecting hardware specificly for installing Linux on, but if i have the extra cash i may buy a G5 PPC...
one thing i surely wont be doing is paying an OEM the evil MSFT tax even if i have to go out of my way to NOT pay it...
- with
a monitor for $499. On ebay you can find some pretty nice used machines for under $100.Over $1000 these days is where you can find some really nice machines. But $1000 is no longer the entry point. If you were someone buying your first computer, would you want to plunge right in to a $1000+ Macintosh, or go for a sub $500 PC?
It took long enough for Apple to see this, but they would have to be stupid to ignore it forever. It makes perfect sense to offer an entry point into Apple at the sub-$500 mark. And with the massive amount of cashflow they are getting from the overpriced iPod, they can certainly afford to cut their margins a bit on the low end in order to get the "apple" brand into the hands of the PC using public.
I never really pay much attention to apples, but I love competition in the marketplace, so I hope this is true.
Thanks for the memories. 01/00 NEVAR FORGET!
Fortunately this was posted on ThinkSecret who has a far better track record than most of the other rumor sites. So, if this rumor is correct, I'll be one of the first to order one of these on 10 Jan. The only thing I'd really like to see in this headless iMac is a higher-end model with a G5 processor, better graphics card and superdrive.
My sentiments exactly.
If iPod users invest in this machine, they are quickly going to be disappointed in the lack of games (especially since the spec is relatively low), and find it struggles a bit when they start using large Garageband files. Still, only time will tell. We Slashdotters can, occasionally, be wrong.
Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
This isn't necessarily the right approach. All the folks at Apple have to do is build complete Macintosh systems onto ATX form factor motherboards. System builders all over the world would buy them up and build Apple-compatible computers.
What many people don't know is that Sun actually did this a while back. I have an ATX rack-mount server with a Sun AXi motherboard in it, and it acts exactly like a Sun machine -- because it is a Sun machine. I'd love to see Apple do this.
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I think this is great! Right now all I have are Windows and Linux boxen. I will definitely be picking one of these up. My main objection to Apple has always been price. I think competition is a good thing, but I could never see Apple competing with the likes of Dell in the enterprise because it is simply cheaper to outfit an organization with cheap PCs. I think Apple should target businesses with this system. Other than the graphics artist how much memory/CPU does a user need to word process, email, and web access? I could see a bunch of these on the average user desktop and then outfit power users with more high end G5 boxes.
Imagine a cluster of these things! For once, it would be easy to set up...
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
500 bones is an impulse purchase for you? Daaaam!
Last spring I bought a dual G5, my first new Mac in 6 years. My last Mac was also top end for that time. It was 5 years old, and replaced a high mid-range Mac. My needs are really not that great, so why spend the money? Because I've invested in a very nice monitor that would go to waste with an iMac. Therefore, I buy top-end and make it last 5-6 years.
However, with a low-end headless Mac, it suddenly makes much more sense to go that route and upgrade every 2-3 years. I'll never be on the front end of the speed curve, sure, but I'll also never fall as far back as I do now, either. Not only do I get the new hardware, but an OS upgrade thrown in for free, whereas now I would have to pay to jump a major revision.
If this turns out to be true (and is still true 5 years from now when I'm back in the market) and it has even one slot and upgradeable RAM, I know what I'll be buying.
Constitutionally Correct
Where $ 300 gets you a PC built from second grade parts, and usually with second grade engineering).
If this rumor is true, $ 500 will get you a machine built by Apple, with top notch engineering and quality parts. It won't have stellar performance, but most applications don't need that, and the Mac platform is a lot less demanding. Plus, PCs are often in such a bad state that they crawl despite great specs on paper.
It's a pity this wasn't in time for christmas.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
The machines that Apple are selling right now are very comparable with PCs of equivalent spec - it's just that they are VERY full featured, so when you compare the basics it looks like it's more expensive on the Mac side without taking into account the added kit like BT, 802.11g etc.
As for $400, man - will the whining never end? If this $500 machine isn't cheap enough for you, then I'm sorry it's very likely that Apple doesn't want you as a customer.
This sig has been deprecated.
NEVAR FORGET that the GNAA is nothing but a bunch of lonely white dorks! You make the average drooling fat slob Slashbot look like Hugh Hefner!
It is silly to think that 256 is enough RAM to run 10.3. This 12" came standard with that and I couldn't use it w/o dropping another 512 into it. I think that 512 standard is more logical.
411 Y0UR 8453 4R3 8310NG 70 U5!! -NSA
"But I decided to compare it against Walmart's stuff"[...]"But still average cheapo american will be more willing to give more of his money to China to buy a cheaper system"
...now, "average cheapo american" may be perfectly happy spending $99 on a perfectly good MP3 player, or he could buy...an iPod! And be cool! Similarly, he could buy a no name, or even a Dell, PC for a similar price, but it wouldn't be an Apple. It would be a Dell, or a no-name. There are lots of cheap alternatives people can buy, and they may suit them perfectly fine - but I'm willing to bet the majority of people when it comes to certain items (MP3 players, say) prefer the style and brand over the substance (just look at the iPod).
A few months back I took my iBook into a class, to run a presentation. The very first comment I got when I took it out was not "Nice iBook", "is that your laptop" etc. - it was "Wow - that's a really big iPod".
If you compare the Mac feature-for-feature to a PC, the price is pretty comparable. You almost always have to "upgrade" the PC to get what the Mac considers standard features. The 'books especially; they've been that way longer than the desktops. The days of paying a premium just to have a "Mac" are over.
Constitutionally Correct
However, better late than never as they say...
And, truth be told, I've bought $200 PCs (yes, I got a Wal*Mart box for playing around with) that were fine - completely solid, yet made from entirely generic components.
None of which is surprising. Apple makes machines using largely generic components, usually built (the entire machines, not just the components) by the same group of far eastern manufacturers who regularly churn out PCs, PCs that get badged by everyone from Dell to Microtel. It's not as if Apple is going through each chip giving it some quality test that the other manufacturers aren't, or that Apple is saying "Ok, we're only buying from QualChipCo because our experience with CrapFabInc was terrible" while Dell says "Hey, CrapFabInc may make unreliable chips, but who cares when they're 1c cheaper!"
I think there's a little too much snobbery in Apple enthusiast circles. Yes, you're paying a premium for Apple hardware, but that money is going into neat looking and feeling design and a quality operating system, not in hardware quality. Hardware quality is roughly the same with Apple as it is with everyone else. And some "cheap" companies seem to do better, more solid, more reliable, PCs - in my experience - than Apple anyway.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Sorry, but in a corporate environment you just can't replace Wintel PC's with Mac right now. Why?
* Group policy * - centralized security distribution point and software installation.
How much time it will take to replace a web proxy server settings on a 1000 Mac's without group policy?
How do you change network drive mappings from main server to backup on a user computers without GPO?
Try to run gpedit.msc and look how many settings you can change from a group policy in AD.
Apple need truly integrate OSX with Active Directory or offer some replacement.
Sure no viruses/spyware is a huge plus, but without centralized management Macs are not ready for wide adaptation.
PC stands for personal computer. Apple were the first company to provide a personal computer with the apple 1.
You're barely in the new computer market, much less the Apple market, if you can't drop 500 bucks on a computer. As another poster said, it's probably doubtful Apple wants you to be their customer.
AARRARARARGH GOD!!!!!!!!!
I do not believe it.
Apple does the unthinkable - something they have CATAGORICALLY STATED was something they had no interest in, Something that has been asked of them for years, Something that Slashdot users are especially good at complaining about.
They finally release a sub-$500 Mac.
What is the Slashdot response?
"Meh, well it's cheaper but you know... I can get a cheaper box from WalMart so blah blah blah"
Whinypants.
This sig has been deprecated.
Sure, it isn't $299 Dell trash, but this will be a very nice box.
I am willing to bet that it will be roughly the same size as a DVD player. The styling will be very nice too, wonder if it'll be iPod white, or iPod mini coloured aluminium. Connect this to your HDTV, Plasma or normal monitor and you've got a cheap stylish brand-name computer / media box.
Hopefully it'll come with the bluetooth keyboard and mouse, for living room application, and won't just be a standard computer box. Having a VIVO option, or at least some form of "plug in" TV tuner option would be very nice for a low-end media box. Sadly I've not heard any rumours of Apple creating anything software wise for this application, so I'm putting this at 5% likelihood for 2005.
I'll wait to buy one though, I'll want to get Tiger with it instead of paying for the upgrade cost. Hopefully the integrated video will be good enough (here's hoping for a 6200TC at least, but that's PCIe so unlikely. Probably a shitty FX5200 again, argh).
Doing that would defeat the purpose of this machine - introducing new users to Apple engineering (hard and soft ware) and showing them that the Apple price premium for desktops is worth it.
If they come to this box as a result of seeing an iPod, their expectations will be sky-high for fit and finish. Any significant quality problems with a machine like that would turn a whole generation off of desktop Macs.
If this machine is real, I'll bet the rumored price is too low. $500 would be great, but I wouldn't be surprised if the price was more like $700, with real Apple engineering included.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Sorry guys, but the story was published on Dec 28th, which is the innocents saints day. I don't know if you celebrate it much on the States (it's a spanish tradition), but in a lot of places it's the equivalent of your aprils fools day. Don't get me wrong, I would love the 499$ Mac, but when something seems to good to be true, it probably is.
For 500 dollars, without a monitor, you can do a lot of damage. I highly doubt Apple would put out a POS if it's being aimed squarely at those customers who are Apple-curious but haven't made the switch yet. That's probably the last crowd they'd want to turn off, and it's conceivable that Apple is willing to make a low profit margin on this one to penetrate the market. Their position is excellent... iPod popularity and Apple-awareness are pretty outstanding right now, this cheap Mac could probably be the key to moving these people over to Macs. I doubt Apple will make this computer junk (which wouldn't be conducive to their trackrecord lately anyhow).
500 dollars isn't cheap-o. I'd guess it'll basically be an iBook in a desktop, which can't cost that much.
Don't underestimate how important Apple might view this computer for their business.
I would really like a chance to play with this hardware, but have no desire to learn another OS. Being a niche market to begin with, it would seem that Apple could profit by looking at very small markets. They could even select a *NIX oriented site to do all marketing and distribution to not risk confusing its core customers.
Don't want to restate the obvious so I will restate what may not be so obvious:
A 1" thick headless unit fits nicely in my A/V cabinet.
Yeah, you heard me - network connection - audio line out (or atleast USB/Firewire for 3rd party)
This is the new Media server for my den.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Apple has always had a relatively high standard in the performance department. Releasing a G4 in the context of today's rapidly developing Mac software (64 bit, extended memory capability, etc.) is going to leave these headless 'switchers' in the dust eventually, since developers are probably going to move on to the G5 now that it's in the iMac. I just see these new switchers stuck with limited software choices even within the Mac software market. It seems like this would work for no longer than one generation of computer purchases before users realize they need more horsepower. Then again, that is probably all Apple wants (and in my opinion, all it needs) to grab iPod-based converts and get them in front of an iMac.
They Are Night Zombies!! They Are Neighbors!! They Have Come Back from the Dead!! Ahhhh!
If it is xserve-like the way that the article says, it could hold more than one PCI slot horizontally while still containing a low profile. I think even a mockup along the lines of this one could contain enough room for two PCI slots, or one AGP and one PCI at least.
Apple is about marketing to core groups that can serve them well. With the success of OS X there are thousands of enthusiasts and geeks who want a light small machine they can try OS X on. A little expansion and that would take care of a large segment of that market. Home users can still get an eMac if they want a plug & play computer with three cables and nothing more, and it comes with a monitor.
This would be a fine enthusiast box. Cheap like one of the pizza box LC cased computers from the early 90s, and even they had one nubus expansion port inside.
I bought an AirPort Express for Christmas and plugged it into the home-theater surround sound and it sounds great and works just like it's supposed to. I'm thinking about buying a cheap used iMac to run iTunes so we can close up the laptop and let the music keep playing, but I'm with you -- if a cheap new Mac will be available, of course I'll get that instead. And if we do that, netTunes would be the logical way to control iTunes on the headless server. That'd be an ideal setup.
The other thing that headless Mac will be running is Phlink. A home menu-based voicemail service that takes messages or faxes and emails me the MP3s or JPEGs is pretty fun. If I'm getting the Mac to sit in the basement anyway, I can justify $150 for a really fancy answering machine...
A $500 Mac IMO would be a biggest thing since the introduction of the PowerPC, iMac or iPod. It will rip through the computer world like a wildfire. The unreal power of OS X and a Mac for the price of some nasty thing from Dell? Oh, it's too good to be true. The only thing that would make it better is if it was like the Mac Cube and silent. That would throw the computer world for a spin. Imagine all the uses: small web server farms, MS Windows owners buying one with a KVM to run along side their MS Windows box. Jobs has pull off some pretty stunts and this without a doubt would be in his top 10. I will buy three the first day they come out; one for my daughter (she loves my wife's Mac and hates to share), one for my folks (playing admin for their MS Window's box sucks and one for me to run Ubuntu and MOL (hey, I had a ton of great Classic apps that still do the job).
If someone says they're also bring back HyperCard I'll know it's a dream. If this new Mac is real Mac is back!
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
Just to have it. It'd be my first Apple since I fled to the PC after the //e (started from a used ][ in '80). The Mac was a toy -- real men used command lines, dammit (and they still do.)
Since Apple went to BSD they regained their nerdy "cool" in my books, and this would be a perfect reason to give it a try. If it works out, I may step up to a G5 down the road.
"This is totally insecure, but very convenient."
I would like a basic box of Apple quality, where shops add hotpluggable parts to create a cheap complete enough mac for daybased part prices.
If something is wrong with this mac, just remove the ceapo USB, Firewire and PCI-E stuff and you have a stabble Mac OS X box.
So it would have no video card but a hotpluggable PCI-E bay where thirdparties can fill an apple standard plastic cartridge with a fast or cheap graphics card ready to be poped in by shops or consumers themselves.
It would have two Firewire bays where shops and consumers can pop in a harddisk and optical disk drive.
On-board ethernet, audio and 128 MB RAM makes that you can always boot safely from another CD/DVD in 10.4 full audio mode to check that your Apple runs OK but some of your cheapo stuff was hampering.
Apple quality and cheap stuff can be combined without bad branding liability for Apple: any fuckup is blamed on the thirdparty supplier as mac runs great by itself. Cheap typewriter mac or expensive gaming-card mac, you pick the parts and upgarde later when you get more paychecks.
Has you thought of it? Is you thinking of it now?
except you have to remember that Macs are only virus free because they don't have the saturation that a Windows based PCs have.
Once they get a good network of vulnerable machines out there anyone who is worth their weight in "haxoring" will try to be the first to cripple every apple on the internet.
Though this is a great idea, and it may well happen in some form or another, I can't imaging that Apple would put a G4 in it. Apple's too committed to a 64-bit architecture across the board to have one little 32-bit straggler keeping thier OS behind.
If this happens (and I hope it does), I think it would be a low-powered G5 or some sort of new cheep 64-bit chip from Motorolla.
But what do I know...
Jesus, so Apple finally might release a $500 headless Mac and you STILL won't buy it unless it's $400? Fuck off. For every geek loser like you who likes to stand on that silly sense of defiance there are 1000 who will applaud Apple's bold move and buy one.
You? You just keep waiting. Apple won't care one bit about your business.
I believe the apple 1 was the first machine with a keyboard interface, which was why I called it a personal computer. Toggling switches relegated the altair to a hobbyists toy, not a computer in my opinion.
The next little thing from Apple.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
It is still overpriced, being a hundred (or two) more than an equivalent PC that is likely less crippled and faster.
"You? You just keep waiting. Apple won't care one bit about your business"
Not caring about business is why Apple is a failure in the desktop computer market. It is pretty obvious that they don't want to make a computer that appeals to users. They've hit a brick wall. The overpriced, crippled machines will only ever appeal to a small minority of users. Now they have a "way out" of this dead end: the iPod.
Monitored loop w/ breakpoint in the 'built in' development evironment...an infinite loop managed to hang the machine.
You say "Never" an aweful lot....I've hardly used OSXs and still have had issues with it.
Blar.
A single 1.8 G5 in a cube shaped computer (call it the iCube). It would cut at the sales of the single processor powermac though (which was off the market for a long time)
No so, the lack of monitor gives enough room to reduce the price and produce a good basic machine.
As for asrock boards, I've got nothing but praise for them, wonderful excellent things, no problems ever. Though I do go the amd route and use crucial ram and a decent psu.
+----------------- | What is the question!
No real computer geek would use a Mac...Come on!
Blar.
Reasons why I wouldn't want a MAC, and even if I was given one (why it would sit on my desk unused). *warning if you are going to bitch about me not being PC, do not read below*
1) Apps come out slower then PC
2) Less apps to run then a PC
3) Industry still uses PC much more then MAC
4) Stupid one button mouse is RETARDED
5) Going back to the mouse - I like my mouse with eight buttons. Only wish I had one with ten buttons. Does apple utilize these bad boys?
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
256MB of RAM is NOT ENOUGH to run OSX well. It's odd that Apple, who designed OSX, doesn't notice this and continues to sell systems which start at 256MB of RAM.
The starting RAM size should be 512, with room for expansion. One of the more annoying things they do is offer Powerbooks with 512, but with both slots full (256 in each), so expansion ability is stifled. It actually costs more to get the 512MB in ONE slot.
This is one of the few things that still pisses me off about Apple. The other thing is iBooks and iMacs needing a hack to do desktop spanning across two displays, but that's another rant. }:)
-Z
If by "rock" I mean paying too much for an outdated system. The G4 was released back in 1999!!! Will Panther even run on such a slow system?!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
OS X does NOT fly on a G4 with a low-end graphics card. It gets by, but it's not going to make true believers out of the unconverted masses.
It has video, fast ethernet, 56k modem, USB 2.0, FireWire 400 and wireless support all built in. So why would you want a PCI slot on an entry-level machine?
Probably to upgrade any of the above features. High-end video card, gigabit ethernet, FireWire 800, et al. But the problem is that Apple is very sensitive to the fact that this box might take sales away from their tower systems. Apple's margin is probably razor-thin on this box, and they would rather upsell you to a more profitable tower system if you want all of those features.
The wholesale cost of adding FireWire 800 and gigabit ethernet would have been marginal. But Apple is restricting the feature set so that you have to buy a tower if you want something that does more than web surfing and word processing.
You don't, however, get Mac OS X. You can get everything that came with the distro that works on the Wal*Mart box for OS X (in practice), but you can't get many of the software tools from the OS X box on the Wal*Mart box.
Seriously, I don't think it's much of a contest either, the Mac "wins" that particular round for most people. There are a handful who will want the Wal*Mart box because they're big time GNU/Linux users, or because they intend to install a copy of Windows on it. And maybe if you're on an ultra-tight budget and really are one of the 7% of people in the US who do not have a spare VGA monitor floating around, it'll be fractionally cheaper to buy it as an entry level system.
I don't think the Wal*Mart comparison, myself, makes Wal*Mart PCs look any better. Indeed, I have my doubts about Apple pricing this at $500, if it even exists, for precisely this reason. They've never competed at such a low price before.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Hardware quality is roughly the same with Apple as it is with everyone else.
Oh yeah, except Apple uses REAL video chipsets and separate RAM even in their low-end systems, while low-end PCs have shared video memory and this "Intel Extreme" graphics nonsense that is a far cry short of anything I'd consider extreme. I can't quite see how that's generic.
And some "cheap" companies seem to do better, more solid, more reliable, PCs - in my experience - than Apple anyway.
I have yet to see this and I deal with a family who buys cheap PCs from Wal-mart [aside from my mother, who bought herself a Dell for some ungodly reason]. The PCs are all dead/dying and being replaced, yet again with fucking Wal-mart purchased PCs. A Mac that I got from my campus newspaper lab after it had been replaced was made well before any of those machines, and it is still working beautifully.
Macs always have their quirks, it's one of the more interesting things about owning them, at least in my opinion. I'd take some slight quirks and a decent OS over all of the hassle that comes with Windows and other *nix based systems... although I do use [and sort-of enjoy] both on a normal basis.
Having recently looked into the prices of second hand Apple computers, I can tell you this product sounds like a great buy because it's cheaper than a second hand machine of similiar spec ie G4 1.25Ghz.
Now the article states the machine retails for $500 USD, which equates to approximately $645 AUD (Australian Dollars). Now from experience you're very lucky to get G4 that is 1GHz or faster for under a $1000 AUD - and that includes second hand on Ebay - so this a great buy.
On the other hand, it doesn't sound very upgradable, so if you're tech savy and want to experience the Mac but expand the machine over time you're probably better off spending the extra money and getting a second hand G4 PowerMac - after all there is CPU upgrade kits available.
aus.music.scrapbook
Some people just won't buy Macs unless Apple PAYS them to do so. ...and even then, the machine's just gonna go on eBay anyway.
A thin yet very warm box which "can" sit flat but offers the option to be placed on its side. Hmmm. Anyone remember the DEC Multia (or UDB)? Methinks fans are a very good idea, Apple.
If the target market is first-time computer buyers (and the price suggests that it is), chances are they *don't* have a spare monitor laying around. So throw in a monitor (and they'll want a flat-screen) and you're up to $800 in a heartbeat. Regardless of how good the GUI is, this can leave a bad taste with the potential buyer.
No wireless. Less space than a Vaio. Lame.
So what you're saying is that Apple is just as hypocritically flaky and directionless as Slashdot?
Oy vey!
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
If so I can save myself the 129 bucks and use the normal Apple license model to put it on my G5 and use the headless box as a home/file/web server etc.
This makes this all the more attractive if indeed it does exist.
Apparently too few Slashdot patrons actually use Pricewatch anymore, maybe they think they are getting "deals" from Dell. I see highly modded posts talking about how great having a $500 Mac would be for "geeks", as if the individual writing them is the figurehead for some quiet geek movement.
Let me explain why a $500 Mac is wrong:
1) 256 meg RAM and 40 gig. This is not 2001, people. 256 meg RAM hasn't been "enough" RAM since the nineties.
2) Since Jobs came back to Apple, he developed the iMac line, which was suppose to address the issue of future computer compatibility (USB) while getting rid of legacy architecture (serial ports and floppy drives). All this was done in one, standalone unit. It is Apple's corporate image for their products to be like "appliances", disposable and an all-in-one product. They are to be reliable, and Jobs has even said on occasion that he wants to "be the Sony of the computer market".
You're not _meant_ to upgrade a Mac. This new line of computers would require an upgrade pretty much out of the box. It also does not address, in my opinion, the biggest Mac issue of the last decade: gaming and gaming development.
3) Tech support. I work in this area, and if this computer is as crappy as they describe, I don't want to support it.
4) $500 places this kind of a computer within reaching price of my mother, who has always wanted an Apple, is an impulse buyer, but could never afford one.
Apple draws impulse buyers like stink on (edited due to PG-13 rating). My mother is one of those. If Jobs actually *puts* a computer within her reach as a consumer, she very well may buy one, and have a hell of a time when she has problems and I refuse to support it.
The problem is that impulse buyers love to find reasons to hate the products they purchased on impulse. They also like to hate the companies that produce them. If Jobs puts a computer within financial reach of nearly every family in North America and Europe then Apple will no longer be a niche market player in the minds of consumers.
Saying, "I got a Mac!" will not make your (once again, the PG-13 rating) any bigger. It won't get you laid, not that it ever did in the first place, nor will one in the house turn heads.
The thing is, iPods were cool, because you might be the only one to have them. Now, they are still cool, because you can talk about "how long you had it".
Making an iCrap, and selling it for $500 is simply *not* going to work and will end up ruining Apple's image. The only reason the iPod didn't was because it is seen as a device and not a computer. There was also a real lack of any good cheap mp3 players.
In a surprise move, McDonalds is offering a "Happy Meal" for adults. Called the "Macky Meal," it includes a budget Mac system, the Quadra Pounder, as well as a large fries and a large drink.
In a statement, Phil Schiller, VP of Marketing at Apple said, "The purpose of the Macky Meal is to satisfy the hunger of consumers for a great computer and a great meal. I'm lovin' it!"
The target market is people who bought iPods and expressed interest in switching to the Mac but said current Macs are too expensive for them to consider. Do you know anyone with an iPod who doesn't already have a computer???
First-time buyers already have a Mac targeted at their demographic, it's called the eMac.
If they're trying to woo the iPod users, they should provide a built-in iPod dock, and help reduce cable sprawl.
While your argument is logically true there is one flaw, People see computers differently then other consumer devices. How many people can easily use all the features in their Cell phone but when it comes to using a computer they become clueless? It is because people put a block in their heads about computers vs. consumer electronics. Sure you got complements on your iBook and how cool it looked but how many of them a couple months later had iBooks of their own, who didn't before. If you were very lucky maybe 1. Having a fancy laptop you are only cool in a small circle. Having an iPod makes you cool in a large circle. Why is one cooler then the other it is because consumer electronics are considered hip and trendy while computers are considers more of a needed utility such as a stove or a freezer.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
A guy I work with just got a new digital video camera and wanted to get a new PC do do some editing on. His existing PC and laptop did not have Firewire or the horsepower to get what he wanted done. I told him an iMac would be great to do video editing and came with some of the best software to do basic video editing. Unfortunately he didn't want to spend $1000- $1200 on an iMac and instead bought a Compaq for around $600 which would do what he wanted. This low end Mac would have been perfect for him. Plus, he wouldn't have had to shell out the money for decent video editing software either.
Better they should provide a $400 'helper station' a sort of cross between a docking station and something not even developed yet, a device with it's own CPU and RAM that fills out the iPOD's basic capability in order to make it real computer. That way for about $800 sans monitor you could have a fully functional machine that undocks to a iPod.
OK, I know this is *incredibly* premature and *highly* speculative, but I was curious about just how this theoretical new "headless eMac" unit might stack up against one of Dell's bottom-of-the-barrel desktop system.
2 004/1229_dt500.html
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/
It's important to note that all of the Dell Dimension 2400 specs are ACTUAL specs, taken just this morning.
For the rumored Apple bottom-feeder CPU, I'm assuming that the hardware specs will be what ThinkSecret claims, that the graphics card will be a GeForce FX5200, and a few other items. I'm also assuming that the software will include Panther, an updated (finally!) version of AppleWorks (just for the heck of it), iLife (minus iDVD), and the other Apple-produced software which normally comes with eMacs/iMacs/iBooks. The major distinction software-wise is that, to keep costs down to a bare minimum, there would be NO third-party software included (ie, no Quicken, WorldBook, or 3rd-party games bundled).
The thing which blew me away was this: The Dell machine--without a monitor--starts at $395. However, this is with a CD-ROM ONLY, and a 90-day warranty only! Adding a CD-RW, DVD, and 1-yr warranty tacks on another $88...except that the standard ground shipping is $99, even without a monitor!! Since $500 is the cut-off, and the system *has* to be shipped one way or another, that means I had to give up the CD-RW and DVD drive and *still* came in $11 over the mark.
I was also surprised to find out the following about the Dell Dimension 2400:
--It has a sucky, NON upgradable, integrated graphics card (though you could use a PCI graphics card instead, I suppose)
--It maxes out at 512 MB RAM!
In short, if TS is right about the specs and pricing, this could definitely stir things up!
A 1.5 Ghz G4 will be as fast to your average user as their new 3 Ghz PC... since they won't be running 50 extra programs while browsing a single web page and emailing their aunt pics of the dog...
If you want games get an Xbox, to do computery stuff buy a Mac!
They should bundle it with the OpenOffice Suite as well... hopefully after contributing a really super fast and native port.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Lawsuit detection?/ 195239&tid=141&tid=179&tid=3/
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/22
I have gas, but my car uses petrol.
Keep this sucker cheap. If pro video editors can use a PowerBook without PCI slots, then office workers and other pros can too. At $500 you can't expect upgradeability.
Your points are valid. I'm not really whining about the price, as I think it's very good. When I consider purchasing a new computer, a Mac will definitely be on the list. My point is that while $500 is attractive, $400 is even moreso and $300 makes it an auto-buy. Apple is reducing it's price to bring in more customers. Well, perhaps they should take it a step further and release a unit without BT/802.11g for those customers (like me) who don't need or want it.
AnimeNEXT anime convention
I've seen a few comments along the lines of "Well, that sounds great but I wish it had xyz feature". Of course, if you tacked on all these features you'd quickly wind up with a machine that can't be sold for $500 and cannibalizes Apple's sales on other products.
That said... I hope you can easily upgrade the RAM. Well, actually, I'll settle for being able to upgrade the RAM at all -- but the description of the form factor leads me to think that upgrading memory might be as easy as swapping out the battery in your iPod.
Now that Apple will have realized that they must provide a product at a realistic price point to survive, and the hoi polloi will have invaded the club, I wonder to what platform all the black turtleneck wearing, conspicuous consuming, design bragging Mac effetes will migrate.
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
The most important thing Apple Computer needs to get to market is a small 1U rack-mountable server in the sub-$1000 price range.
Like, say, if you took a 17" iMac G5, ripped out the display, put it on it's side and racked it...but reconfig'd it so that the ports and slots would be easy to access while in a rack. Give me a single-processor G5 mobo, 2 internal SATA drives, a CD-ROM, a single PCI slot, and a choice of Mac OS X or Mac OS X Server, and I'm good to go.
I have visions of Apple Network Appliances dancing in my head..email, DNS, DHCP, Open Directory nodes, web servers, etc, etc. All that nifty infrastructure stuff that doesn't really require a full-blown XServe, but that works great on multiple cheap boxen.
I've also simply not had the experience many people claim to have had where they have to replace PCs every two years. Further, most people I've talked to who've claimed this have turned out to have had issues more related to spyware or just Windows DLL hell than any issue with hardware quality (which is what the discussion is about, after all.) A simple re-install of Windows, 90% of the time, is enough to make that five year old PC work like new. A "hardware problem", in my PC experience, means "a PC whose memory can't be upgraded beyond 16Mb", not "a PC that sporadically crashes regardless of what software it's running."
I think the nearest thing I have to a solid Mac in my collection (there are five) is a very old Beige PowerMac G3, and occasionally it will not reboot. I'm fortunate the one I use at work seems generally ok these days.
And that's the fundamental thing: I'm sure Apple fans will jump in and argue that Macs are more reliable anyway because they use OS X and Windows doesn't cut it, etc, and, for now, they're probably right. But the discussion was about hardware quality, and, from experience, I'm telling you, it's just not true Apple makes higher quality hardware than anyone else. Five Macs and a multitude of PCs has taught me that at least. I've had funky Thinkpads and a funky PowerBook. I've had nasty ASUS motherboards and Mac desktops that will not boot up on the first go or that crash unexpectedly.
I love OS X. I think Macs look fairly elegant. I think it's absurd to expect machines being spat out from the same assembly lines with the same quality control people from companies that may not care about their customer's reputations but certainly care about their own to differ significantly in quality control simply because one customer has Apple logos on their products and the others may end up anywhere.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
As much as I love my mother, the cost of administering her PC-- whether in terms of my time or her money-- is outrageous. The value of a secure, stable computing platform was pushing me towards purchasing her a Powermac. If the $499 Mac shows up, I'll skip the Powermac. Instead, I'll buy her the new box and use the savings to buy myself Apple's Remote Desktop software.
Currently, all name brand manufacturers except Apple and Dell are losing money on every computer they sell. Dell can do this because of zero innovation. IBM has just decided to sell it's PC business. Shareholders are pressuring HP to do the same. Apple's prices are not high, they are very reasonable. Let's hope that if Apple actually does build a $499,- Mac that it still makes a profit. I want Apple to keep innovating, and I'm prepared to pay a liitle more for it.
Much to my surprise, I find myself seriously considering buying one of these $500 Macs.
I have wanted a Mac since I got to use one of the originals which was on display at Science North in Sudbury, Ontario the summer after their commercial release in 1984.
Price has always been the major sticking point. When I was thinking of upgrading my Commodore 128, I had a few choices. In the Time Before the Internet (for us home computer users), I wrote Apple and got brochures back for their two new models, the Mac SE and the Mac II. According to the price list that came with them, the cheaper Mac SE cost more than three times as much as a similarly equipped Commodore Amiga or Atart ST. Remember, all of these computers were roughly equivalent at the time.
In the 1990s, I started buying the horrid, commodity IBM PC clones, starting with 486s, and I have not changed since then. If Apple were to release a cheap Mac, I would be seriously tempted to buy it.
Why? Because my recent brushes with Apple hardware and software have been positive. I used iTunes on my PC to convert my CD collection to MP3s. Later, I bought a used 10GB second-generation iPod, and have been pleased with it too. After the front-page articles on Slashdot, I even have downloaded and run Mac OSX on my 2.5GHz 32-bit PC using Pear PC. The emulation was slow (the two times I tried it), but it did give me some idea of what a Mac is like.
So, now to my question: I have a favourite keyboard, an IBM Model M. What kind of keyboard port is standard on Macs these days?
From my limited knowledge, I would guess that this new headless Mac would take a USB keyboard, in which case I would need some kind of USB to PS/2 converter.
Does anyone have any experience with present-day Macs using IBM PS/2 keyboards?
Apple is moving it's whole desktop product line to the new G5. I doubt they would release a G4 machine now that is not a laptop.
Apple produces "PCs" - Personal Computers. Its become a generic term for a Wintel based computer, but they produced the FIRST PCs!, I've got an old beige mac on the shelf here that says right on it "Power PC".
If you remember your geek history right, in the late 70s, early 80s the whole point of Apple was to produce computers normal people could afford. The mac and the snazziness came later, but the Apple Is and IIs were cheap compared to the alternatives (if there were any). Hell, the first apples sold for $666, I wouldn't advise using this price considering the current political climate, but something in that range would be very competitive.
I would love it if they would put out a nice little machine like this for the Web/Email crowd that will never produce a home movie, mix their own music, etc. A nicely priced secure box for the non savvy if you will. I've got a ton of people I know that ask me from time to time what computer to buy. The response after I mention a Mac is "they are so expensive, and I saw a dell in the paper for $400, the cheapest mac is like $1000." Believe me, these are people that will surf the web, play solitare, and write a letter or two. That's it.
Make a cheap mac for these folks. Be blunt about its limitations, but put it out there.
P
-- My dog can beat up your dog.
I have a Powerbook, my wife has an iBook. I imagine the split would be much like that:
Low end, affordable machines for the masses
High end, expensive for the pros
This new Mac could fill that in, so you would have:
Laptop: iBook ($1000) vs Powerbook ($2000)
Screen: eMac ($800) vs iMac ($1200)
Headless: myMac ($500) vs PowerMac($2000)
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Still not worth it... yeah, the G-series architecture is fun to play around with, but the OS just doesn't do it for me, I'd be running Gentoo with IceWM on it. But let's do a little cost comparison...
Right now I have a Compaq Presario R3000T. It has a P4 2.8ghz CPU, a gig of RAM, a DVD-RW drive, 30gb hard drive (I have two external 120gb drives), and comes with a 15.4" LCD with 1920x1200 resolution. The whole thing cost $1050 after rebates, FatWallet, etc.
Now, if I were to get this new Mac I'd spend $400 on the base price, another $100 on the RAM, another $100-200 to get a superdrive, an extra $2000 to get an LCD screen with similar resolution, plus 8.2% tax (is there anywhere that has sales tax where Apple doesn't charge it?)...
So in the end I'd be spending at least $2813 for a pretty computer that isn't portable... $1763 more than a comparable PC... plus 1920x1200 looks *awesome* at 15.4" and kinda pixely at 23"
a little sidenote... I've never had any problems with Windows not "just working." In my fifteen years of computer experience I've had far more problems with Linux (hardware compatibility, and the first time I installed RedHat in the mid 90s the toolbar kept crashing over and over and over) with MacOS (somehow the OS got wiped when I installed the Digi001 PCI card, multiple "computer with question mark" start ups, and undecipherable "bomb icon" errors.) Windows might occasionally boot into start mode for no reason and need to be rebooted more often, but I've never experienced any overwhelmingly frustrating issues like I have with other operating systems.
sig.
If they tried this and it worked for them, it would be a first for them.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I like the pretty pictures that the AC posted in the parent message, but here's a disclaimer boys and girls: These pictures are from the Mac OS D's Gallery of Fake Macs.
Yes, the images are lovely, but you have Photoshop to thank for them, not Apple.
Could you cluster a few of these things together...and run the mac server version of OSX? Just thinking off the top of my head with no research yet...but, might be interesting. And at this price...easily affordable.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
years pass
things change
someday, sun will gpl great portions of their code
ever heard of "too little too late"
this sub 500 box might have helped apple 3 years ago.
today it's just a last gasp
I bought mine about the same time you did -- same model exactly.
:) (cheap mice in the slots I didn't need to use.) Until I did figure that out, even though I owned a KVM, it was useless to me, it would just emit a series of BBEEEEEEEEEPPs.
Mine works OK, but has the strange property of being unhappy unless all its USB input ports are occupied. It took me a while to find out what the problem was, but that was it. A pretty kludgy solution
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
this kinda reminds me of this story about the pricing of the original mac. their initial target price was $500, but the final design ended up being around $1,500. Then due to incresed costs and a lame decision by the board, it ended up starting out at $2,500, which prevented them from ever gaining a huge marketshare, which led to all sorts of problems later on.
maybe now with microsoft looking pretty weak with their security problems and continually delaying longhorn, and with the problems intel is having and the rest of the PC market is having Apple is seeing this as a chance to make up for past mistakes and finally sell the "computer for everyone" they originally intended.
then you can track down one of the last G4 towers. they were just removed from the apple store a few months ago. i am sure some resellers still have them new, let alone the tons of used ones out there. i wonder if this would mean Apple is making standalone CRTs again? a $500 machine is not so cheap when you buy a $1200 LCD. that would leapfrog the G5 iMac in cost. this would suffer the same fate as the cube. the quality and cost of the Apple LCD screens make them no good for a budget machine.
pci slots would be nice, but honestly i bet way less than 1% of the buyers of the box would ever think to use them. i know a ton of Mac users and of all the people that own towers i would say only a few ever use the PCI slots. the machines always have adequate video, ethernet, audio etc etc etc. just about anything missing can be added to the USB or Firewire port. i know it is not the same, but i think Apple would be selling this to entry level computer users, not thrifty nerds.
But I decided to compare it against Walmart's stuff.
What you can't see on paper though is how God-awful cheap the WalMart boxes are. I've ordered several over the years- a couple of years ago they weren't bad. But the most recent purchase was basically an unusable machine. The case was about as thick as one of those aluminum pie plates. The power supply and CPU fans were so incredibly loud that they caused headaches. The CPU was about 1/4 of an inch from the power supply with the CPU fan installed, so it was also making a roaring sound from sucking air off a flat surface. All I salvaged was the motherboard, HD, and CD ROM drive. I threw away the rest of the brand new components.
I bring this up because I would have never thought about an economy PC having problems in these areas, until I actually bought one. I'm 101% sure that an Apple econo-box will be a class act though when it comes to case quality and sound.
Since when is the hardware in the box not included in the quality? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. I consider quality of the machine to be encompassing all of it, even if the parts are generic, if it works well and works reliably, then good for it and the maker. And actually, I do think the graphics chipset does make a difference in the reliabilty of the machine, because those horrid integrated chipsets slow down Windows XP like something fierce and alot of users who buy such PCs don't know enough about turning off the advanced graphics features to make it more responsive.
I won't argue that my Mac is more reliable, because I still have problems with it, my PCs, and my BSD box. I also have had funky Thinkpads, but they've also been lower-end models with big design flaws... busted hinges, loose power ports, that kind of thing. The upper-end systems seem to be pretty respectable, though, but early bad experience has made me not to likely to buy another Thinkpad. I won't get started on ASUS boards. [Yet another few bad experiences have scarred me for life.]
I've also been one who has seen more dead PCs right out of the box than Macs. Granted, more PCs are purchased so this could very well contribute to it. I know people who have had issues with Macs as well.
And as for: I think it's absurd to expect machines being spat out from the same assembly lines with the same quality control people from companies that may not care about their customer's reputations but certainly care about their own to differ significantly in quality control simply because one customer has Apple logos on their products and the others may end up anywhere. , last time I checked, Apple users weren't using commodity parts like PCs do for one thing, so they'd not be made on the same assembly line. In case you've forgotten, major difference in architectures. Secondly, at least if I have a hardware problem with my Mac when I get it, I can have it fixed, with paid shipping both ways, no real hassle. That kind of service just doesn't happen with many PC retailers.
You must have used all your brain power to create that comment. Opps, the short school bus is here to take you to school. Go along now and don't forget the sign that goes around your neck that says "Caution: goes for eyes".
I just want to warn everyone that OS X is addictive. That $500 box will give way to a dual G5 tower very soon. They are just giving you the first hit cheep.
Crushing my karma one post at a time.
Wrong, it has been noted before that features of the Mac OS X architecture, such as requiring an admin password for certain types of installations and alerting you to first-time boots of executables, help ensure that if Mac and Windows marketshares were equal, Windows would still be an easier target and have a higher infection rate. It isn't just about the marketshare.
Sample article (no registration required for this one)Why would Apple sell a $500 machine with no monitor, when their cheapest monitor is $1300? If they were trying to undercut Dell, etc., they'd have to try harder, as a $500 Dell typically includes a 17" CRT.
I would expect a new 17" LCD to pair with this, in double-shot plastic, priced low enough to keep the total cost under $1000. I seriously doubt they'd go back to CRTs, or expect users to provde their own monitor.
Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
GATEWAY DRUG
Pretty Pictures!
I foresee some new difficulties in store for Apple with the introduction of a low-end desktop. Most of these users will probably be switchers, so they will need a pile of information, that is not easy for the completely clueless to find. For example, many of them will have trouble getting software. In the past, they just picked it up at Walmart. Since Walmart carries few or no Mac titles, these people will be lost. This will cause a lot of bad "word of mouth" advertising for macs, unless Apple is ready for it. Adding a software link to the default home page of Safari would be a very good start. It should probably be something that links to hardcopies my mail and shareware and freeware downloads.
Another issue will be people who expect their old software to run, or at least expect to be able to upgrade to a mac version for an upgrade price. Apple should provide some very clear info here about emulation options, alternative software, etc.
In general, I think a low-end mac could be very good for Apple, and it might give them a chance to enter into the business desktop market. It could also blow up in their faces. If all goes well the author of "Making your old Windows POS into a Linux server that will work with your Mac" will be a rich man.
But it won't replace the eMac in any case --- the primary virtue of the eMac is its all-in-one design and that one need track only one serial number for a compleat system (mice and keyboards can just about be considered commodity items these days, and interchanged w/o concern for serial # or provenance so long as they work).
The CRT eMac will exist for so long as it can be made cheaper and more robust than any other sort of display technology for an all-in-one.
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
I've wanted to switch for 2 years now. I own an ipod, my sister too, my dad also. I spend 10 hours a month removing virii and adware from their windows laptops (I refuse to spend more time). I crave Apple's design, but 1300 USD just to "play around" was a bit steep. The only thing that was stopping me from buying a Mac was price, and the fact that I still play some games sometime (so I can't ditch my PC straight away). If Apple makes this baby, I will buy one, I'll buy one for my sister, one for my mother and I'll convince 3 friends (minimum) to buy one for themselves and their wives. Easily. That's 3000 USD next year on top of the 1000 or so I spent on iPods in 2004 and another 500 I'll spend buying a new iPod in 2005. And I know tons of people around me who are just "turned off" by computers and would welcome a Mac. Now Gimme Gimme Gimme.
Let's see:
if it is 1u high, they might get smart and make it half rack wide. Get maybe 80(!) of them in a rack.
On-board firewire means you can rig up a decent little san using apple or other hardware.
Apple would do something verrrrrry interesting if they bundled this sort of unit with a 5th Gen iPod. No, not just so Timmy and Lisa can listen to their music. Rather, if you put a slightly higher performance HD in the 'pod, then used the MacMini chassis as a cradle. The OS, all the applications, all the data (including Timmy and Lisa's music) reside on the iPod and you could theoretically go from chassis to chassis transparently just by plugging in the pod. Something a /.-er would use? Probably not, but for a school or family, it could be magical.
Just bought a 20" Apple Cinema Display for my PC and though I love it (The ergonomics, the design, the engineering, the build quality!) I've been secretly dreaming of driving it with a real Apple. Looks like I won't have to save up for that long after all! Just hope it's not going to be as disappointing as the Performas were.
This sounds like a pretty decent system. It would be nice if it had a faster CPU, like 1.33 or 1.5ghz, or even a low-end G5 (not sure if it's available below 1.6ghz, but that would be enough). That might not be economically feasable, but it would be a good BTO option. It wouldn't scavange PowerMac sales, either, because the PowerMacs are far more powerful.
But speaking as someone who just bought a system with only 256mb RAM, that is NOT enough. Not nearly. The first thing I did was drop 512mb of RAM into my iBook. Runs like a dream now.
Everything else sounds OK. DVD burning is nice, but not essential. Having a combo drive at least allows DVD playback, and users have a way to get data off their system and something for backups.
If Apple aims this in the right direction (i.e. non-gamers, non-graphics pros...basically businesses looking for cheap desktops for their secretaries and home users who just want to check their email and surf the web) they could have a winner on their hands. Otherwise (and this assumes of course that the system actually exists) they'll have another Cube on their hands.
You're barely in the new computer market, much less the Apple market, if you can't drop 500 bucks on a computer.
You are completely and utterly wrong. Before Christmas, I was setting up my co-workers with used computers for $250 a piece.
For this price, they are getting an 866MHz Compaq Deskpro with a legitimate copy of Windows 2000 installed, with a second-hand 17" CRT monitor, with a new, cheap, Chinese-made keyboard and mouse.
If you are buying a PC to surf the web and read e-mail, these machines are great. There are still plenty of companies that replace their computers every three years or so, and the old ones are commonly resold.
This is one reason why Apple's machines have been steadily more standards compliant over the last few years. Remember Apple's switch from SCSI to IDE/Firewire (and how, really, this was a switch to IDE)? Don't just think it was because they wanted cheaper disk drives, it also enabled use of standard controller parts and designs, and a shift towards more and more standard motherboards. That particular shift, of course, hasn't been as dramatic as it could have been with so much stuff being integrated into single chips these days, but don't think it didn't make a difference.
Open your Mac and you'll find dozens of components you could find in any low budget (or high budget, there's not a lot of difference save for the marketing and the quantities of RAM, bus speed, etc) PC. Other than the motherboard itself, the PowerPC, and two or three custom IBM/Motorola/Apple ASICs, pretty much everything in there, from the diodes to the disk drives, were made for everyone, not just Apple.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
This box sounds like Apple's answer to small form factor PC's running Myth or Microsoft's media center software. It's a multimedia box.
There's been a sea change in monitors. Back in ye Olden Days, you had a Commodore 64 using a TV for a display. Fuzzy.
Then came RGB monitors, which cost more than a TV, couldn't be used as a TV, but made computer video output much more usable.
Then the monitors developed into hi-rez monsters. They showed TV better than TV sets showed TV.
But now, lookee: hi-end high def TV's can run 1080i, or even 1080p with a converter. We have consumer TV's that can handily act as a not-bad monitor for a PC.
What's an Apple to do with the situation of Microsoft end-running the entire entertainment industry by making their DRM and Media Center the de facto standard? They take the guts of a iMac and make a cheap Small Form Factor computer for cheap. It doesn't have Bill's virus problem inherent in the OS, and, also, most importantly, it doesn't crash.
Run, Steve, run!
The article quotes a price of 40K Baht or about $1 USD. You can get a eMac for less. I wonder why so much?
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
That would be the most awesome "switcher" move -- PC users could use their existing VGA monitor, USB keyboard and mouse, and the mac would just sit under the monitor or desk. Eventually the PC user uses less and less of the PC and more and more of the mac...
~jeff
..my notion of Steve Jobs being a carefully observing computer geek / visionary and top-notch manager in unison.
This is exactly what Apple has to do in order to expand into the gap that MS is leaving behind by slowly but shurely trickeling out of the corporate workplaces. A Sub-500$, low power computer that comes shrinkwrapped with OS X is all it takes to migrate even more people who hate MS (everybody exept gamers) to their plattform. Right now the only alternative for modern micro systems is to get some cool Mini ITX or XPC and spend 20 days trying to get Linux running on it satisfactory.
With a move like this Apple would put it's foot down and make a clear statement for the 100% OSS-ready appliance market.
As I said earlier, this is the next logical step needed to share he market between OSS and all-in-one-package providers. Which Apple essentially is. If this is going to happen, my next file-and-mail server is going to be a mac aswell.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
ibook vs powerbook is blurred right now. What is the advantage of the powerbook? Slightly faster processor and memory... video card. That's it.
I don't think that is enough to justify the price difference.
If you look on ebay the price of Mac Cubes are nuts. A typical Cube (now what, four years old?) sells for $500 to $700 and has atleast 40 bids. I have to wonder if someone at Apple finally realized the Cube was a very cool machine and cancelling it was a mistake.
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
Try to convince Joe Smo that. Heck they will look at 1.25 ghz processor and say that is very slow compated to the 2 ghz Intel Celeron Crap. The problem is people no longer put qality in their calculation they know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
There is a market for these, and you've spotted it - the teeming masses who will use it for email and nothing else.
But, the whole point of Apple's biggest marketshare success was that Steve Wozniak was a tinkerer, and made a box that was easy to tinker with! Do you remember when people made 3rd party cards for Apple IIs and Apple actually encouraged that? There were all kinds of cool hacks, alternate vendors for stuff, (hard drives! floppy disk controllers, RAM cards, modems, and so much more).
Moreover, businesses used them because they were capable of running spreadsheets, and there were no alternatives then (IBM's original PC wasn't even made yet!), and the Apple II kicked everyone's ass in terms of expandability and 3rd party software.
It was Steve Jobs who made the Macintosh into a strictly defined device (he often made the "toaster" analogy - computers would be consumer items like toasters - no need to tinker with it!). Jobs never really understood the psychological mindset of the folks who made the Apple II such a success (more successful in terms of business market penetration even than any Mac since) - that people WANT the ability to hack a computer, even if they never use that ability.
When presented with two computers - one with expandability, lots of 3rd party vendor accessories, and the second with limited hardware, only for use with the original vendor certified parts, then most (not all, but most) will choose one with the ABILITY to use more features, even if they NEVER ACTUALLY USE THAT ABILITY. That's the "consumer" hacker mindset, and Jobs never "got" it in the same way Wozniak instinctively did.
Just my two cents.
Joe G.
Bishop, CA
Don't Die Wondering
I'll have a nice little toy for 300... :D
Will definetly sell in europe....
Euros.... GRR, no euro sign support for plain old text??
I built a PC for Christmas because I simply couldn't afford to buy a new Mac. My brother bought a PC because he couldn't afford to buy a Mac. My grandmother bought a PC becase she couldn't afford to buy a Mac. There's 3 sales lost because of the high price of Macs.
I love my Macs, but they're simply too expensive for students.
-- SirG3
I think we all know who wins this battle.
It seems every device the general SlashDot concensus loves, bombs.
Counter that to the iPod, which the editors and several posters thought was, I quote, "lame."
Maybe we should be lamenting the new idea and bitching about lack of PCI slots or something.
Can you ping me now? Gooood! | Manhappenin.Net - Things to do
Should be 362 EUR but calculated with OSX it changes to 699 EUR.
I was thinking the other day that I'd like to have a Mac to play with. But they've always been a little pricey. I could get one -- but what if I didn't like it? I'd waste all that money. (I could get an eMac, but I just don't like the "monitor is the computer" thing.) Now if they had a model for $499, I could try it out to see if I like it. And if I did, I might one day buy one of the more expensive units.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Are you going to write Mac drivers for all that shit?
I am a regular person with typical computer needs. I have had the opportunity to use Mac OS 10.3.8 and it is truly wonderful. I do not need vast amounts of computer power. I would like a Mac but would otherwise not consider buying one due to the price. As a regular consumer I can say that I would definantly buy one of these and donate my wintel pc to charity.
No, seriously, why doesn't apple get with the times and include a two button mouse?
Most applications make use of it, and I highly doubt that by now most computer literate people are too dumb enough to handle more then one button. Sure there are some who can't handle it, but then by the same logic they wouldn't be able to handle holding down a command key and clicking at the same time.
All this does is make apple look stupid, and by now their one button mouse is really useless. Why should people have to put up with such an outdated concept, and buy a new mouse because apple it too stubborn to offer their own? And to catch up they can even throw in a mouse wheel while they are at it.
Remember the suddenly yanked "home on iPod" feature? Expect it to reappear soon, with a bit more flexibility. Perhaps "home on iServe" instead.
Separate thought: Ovolab should start rmping up production on their http://www.ovolab.com/phlink/Phlink Telephone Adapter
Cube was not just a headless Mac - it was many new things combined - form factor, fanless and pretty well equipped for its time. The reasons it died are same that will prevent Apple from releasing this pizza box.
This won't be the old school G4, it'll probably be the new FreeScale model, perhaps with dual cores. They're priced for the embedded market, which is similar to this machine.
I'd love to see a new Apple G4 - that way my new iBook G4 won't be written off as obsolete in 10.6.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
If they do release this, expect it to be discontinued within a year and everyone who bought one go running back to PCs.
You're kidding, right? I admit I'm browsing at +3 but I haven't seen a single negative comment yet. So if there are "whinypants" amongst us they are being moderated into oblivion.
Don't get me wrong, I love OS X and have enjoyed every time I have used it on a friend's machine, in the workplace, etc. But this bundle is basically having you pay $600 for the OS and some so/so hardware to run it on. No thank you. I understand why Apple prices such exorbidant prices for their machines, they really sort of have to since they are so proprietary. But, as long as their prices are so out of scale with the rest of the PC universe, they are just missing the price point that is right for me. I wish that Apple would release OS X for PC machines, and I know they are capable of it. But, I also know they will never do it while they are determined to stay in the hardware business. OSX is a great OS and a lot of people would use it over Windows in a heartbeat, but at the same time many would stop buying Apple hardware because of its cost. So, I don't see that happening anytime soon sadly. So, no, I'm not going to pay $600 for an OS, I can get by just fine with my Windows and Linux workstations. This is a nice move by Apple, but it isn't what I'm looking for still.
You are who you are, let no one tell you different. But, never close your mind to a new point of view.
It might be be as flexible as firewire port + cable, but a drivebay device with an iPod slot would be a popular thing. Imagine one that would swallow the iPod the way a nice car cassette deck does tapes.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
System builders all over the world would buy them up and build Apple-compatible computers.
Let me know when Microsoft starts giving away Windows for free with a bundled software suite, because Apple subsidizes their sofware R&D from hardware sales, so if they drop their hardware margins you don't get software.
Would you really be happier if you could get an ATX Mac Board and then had to go to Staples to put down $129 for OSX and $49 for iLife, and whatever for Appleworks, Quicken and whatever else they're bundling these days?
Maybe if you were just building a linux system, but that's such a small market segment Apple can't orient their business around it.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Hmmn.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Anyone else here sick and tired of the "get a console for all your gaming needs" PR crud excuse?
There is a difference between PC & console systems games, and while I do play both, don't bother going on about why PC gaming sucks and console gaming roxors. I prefer a lot of the titles offered on PC as opposed to those on console, especially with FPS and keyboard/mouse control.
While there are ports of PC titles, there isn't that much, and not every thing gets ported over. Plus you can usually pick up lots of games on the cheap when their prices drop down, with is frequent with Windows titles.
The lack of PC titles and apples attitude towards games turned me off of the Mac. After going to Windows and Linux, I see no reason for me to get a Mac, and no fanboy is going to convince me otherwise.
I beg to differ. You don't need to buy a very expensive switch.
I bought a cheapie KVM switch from Microcenter. I think I paid $30, maybe even less. It's a CompactCable 2 port switch.
I've been running 2 machines, both at 1600x1200 at 32bits, Logitech USB keyboard, USB mouse, and a Mitsubishi 930SB 19" monitor, and I don't have any ghosting, or any problems. I occasionaly run resolutions as high as 1920 x 1440, and have yet to experience any trouble.
My point is to shop around, and you don't need to spend a boatload of $$ to get something that works.
-- No sig for you!
I would recommend you call apple and see if you can arrange for a demo unit or 3 to be sent to your company. Their pricing structure is kind of weird (from what I understand,) in that they won't discount prices per unit but will occasionally just give machines away. I have no direct experience with their sales team though, so take that in a fairly high-sodium way. But seriously, talk to the apple.com folks and see if you can get a demo unit or units for a month or two. They're usually really happy to work w/ you on stuff like that.
This seems like just another step in Apple's "digital hub" strategy. In the past, they've made the computer on your desk the center of a digital lifestyle, and they've backed that up with the i-apps (iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iCal, iSync, iChat). They're not just selling hardware or software, they're selling a way of life where your computer does a lot of truly useful stuff for you with a minimum of fuss.
But what happens when you've got resources to share, like the familiy photo album, your iTunes music collection, etc., but the computer at the center of your digital lifestyle is a laptop? And the center of your wife's digital lifestyle is her laptop? I can tell you from personal experience, things work less smoothly than they should. We'd like to have one music collection that we can both access at any time. We'd like to show friends some photos using TiVo's home media option without having to wake up the right laptop.
Apple's '.Mac' addresses part of the issue in that it at least gives us an always-on storage space on the network where we can keep things like our iCal calendars, address book data, and other files we want to share. It also gives us some (expensive) space to publish little web pages to share photos and such with friends and family. But what we really need is an Mac on our home network that's always available. Ideally, it should be relatively inexpensive to purchase and it should use as little power as possible.
I've been toying with the idea of buying a G5 iMac and hanging it on the wall somewhere in the house as a combination home server and digital picture frame. A cheaper, headless, G4-based iMac seems like a better solution, though. I hope that I'm part of the market that Apple is targetting with this machine.
Since Apple was built up by teachers and children in the educational market, it would be great for them to have a low budget mac - anyone who wanted a top of the line mac and could afford it - bought one already.
The entry level mac would be a great iPod docking station, email / web browser, game box.
TV hookups would be a nice feature too...
It doesn't need to do genetic engineering or find E.T. - just the fun & games that people want to buy already anyways.
It would be nice if the new budget mac could take some market share of the PS2/GameCube/Xbox crowd.
I regularly have interns
Bill? Is that you??
Referring, of course, to the Ford Model T. And yes, I am in the middle of reading Brave New World, why do you ask?
~Philly
Motion requires a baller 3D graphics card -- we're talking 9600 XT or better.
:-)
Since the Geforce 6800 GT costs $500, or the same as the entire rumored low-end Mac, I'm sorta doubting it would be possible
I know I tried to install motion on my 2 year old 1 GHz PowerBook G4, and it said "no... hardware is insufficient." And I had a 64 MB Radeon 7500 in there.
As a Debian user, you will miss the package management.
Not if you use fink. Fink got me to install Debian on my old SuSE box.
You're not exactly currect.
1. Apple has long expressed no interest in selling such a machine.
The article mentions this and explains why Apple still may do it.
2. A new G4 desktop system in Spring of 2005? No chance. Apple is moving away from the Motorola G4 archetecture, in favor of the IBM G5. The eMac and the current laptops will probably be the end of the line for the G4.
INCORRECT! Motorola has announced that they are working on dual-core G4's that scale to 2 GHz, with 64-bit extensions, and only 25w power output. They've also announced single-core G4's with 10w power output. The G4 is not dead, and a dual core 64-bit G4 would be PERFECT for a PowerBook.
3. The current G4 eMac is $800, and their margin on it is thin (by Apple standards.) This rumored system is pretty much a G4 with the $100 monitor removed. No way Apple sells it for $500.
You're forgetting that the eMac is due for an upgrade soon. If they release an updated, faster eMac this January, then they could release this system for $500.
4. Everybody who says they would never buy one of the current Macs, but would buy this one for $500 out of impulse, is a damn liar. You can already buy a headless G4 Mac for under $600. Just go to eBay and buy an old G4 tower from about two years ago. Hell, for that matter, you can buy an old G3 tower which will run OS X just fine for about $300. Add a $100 CPU upgrade, and there's your G4 right there.
Not exactly. There's a few reasons not to do that. BTW, right now I have a PowerBook, but no Mac Desktop. If I could get one for $500, I'd seriously consider it.
Now, look at your suggestion. If I ran out and bought an old G3, then added a $100 CPU upgrade, bam, I have a good speed G4 system.
But wait! The system still has a sucky bus speed, slower RAM, and a small hard drive.
Oh well, I'll live. So NOW, because this computer is way older than Mac OS X, I have to go out and buy Mac OS X for $129. Oh, and don't forget, an extra $49 for iLife. AND some extra money on AppleWorks (don't remember the price!) Thats more than an extra $178 on the software I would get FREE with anything from Apple.
So now this system costs over $570, and still has slower memory and a smaller hard drive and lack of Airport Extreme support you'd get in a system from Apple. Plus the fact that it may have been abused since I would have bought it used, AND that there's no warranty...I'd take a $499 G4 from Apple, please.
$500 is easily justified, given the nice enviromnent that comes with the machine. This box and a nice Linux box would work well together. One or the other would get to be the head machine after a while. That's the beauty of X based environments.
;P
Hey Apple, I want that box. Make me one or two...
Blogging because I can...
While this article should've spawned positive discussions on this new Mac's possible uses, it pros and cons, it has partly turned into flamefest where people get trashed for say something less than "MS Windows XP is number one."
It's about a new Mac and a new direction for Apple, nothing more.
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
... The MarijuanaMac. You'll get hooked, and next thing you know you'll sell your car and tv and drop $2000 on the HeroineBook. By the time Tiger comes out, you'll be sleeping on a mattress on the floor of an empty apartment with broken windows and no heat. Just remember, you won't be able to use your Mac once the power company cuts you off.
----- "All right. It was a miracle. Can we go now?"
I develop a FOSS app in my spare time, and have to rely on others to do the Mac side of things. The cheapest Mac you can buy is $800, but it comes in a monitor. My desk is already full with a nice large 21 inch monitor and second
19 inch one. I don't have space for more displays.
And the bizarre thing is that if you want to buy a Mac without a a builtin display, you have pay almost double - $1500.
If Apple does release this machine in the US for $500, without a display (and no silly proprietary dongles either please), I will buy one and it will lead to a piece of FOSS being a lot better on the Apple platform.
Their call.
Well, in part this is where Apple stores come in handy. At least people can see the quality first hand.
The exact reason why Apple needs retail stores is the same reason that Gateway/Dell/etc. do not. The other vendors are just selling deal-of-the-day hardware in a box. (That being said though, Dell doesn't make such a bad machine- I have one and it may not be anything super special but it is quiet with decent grade hardware.)
Apple doesn't like to make cheap products. It would cheapen their brand which is based on paying a higher price for a "higher quality user experience". That's why they have kept the price of the ipod up when it could obviously be a lot lower. Part of apple's cachet is in the higher price. They have spent to much on their brand identity to now start selling cheap stuff. I think they are going to take that cheap box throw an airport extreme inside it and sell it with a couple of airport express plugs so you can take it out of the box and have your whole house wireless in 10 minutes. You'll be sending mp3's to your stereo and video to any monitor that you can get it plugged into. The only thing that is missing is having it transfer wireless speeds fast enough for video to your flatpanel display in the living room. Although if it were up to me id add a touch screen flat panel monitor that wouldn't be to ugly to look at in the living room and a small wireless keyboard that would slide into the back of the monitor when it wasn't needed. Now you have your whole digital media home center, no wires needed
I would be very happy if they come up with a $500 iBook :-P
You see in the parent post there is a little "*" next to comment. See this little "*" means somewhere else in the document there will be an other "*" and after this little "*" the poster was trying to say that he/she likes Apple Products and does see the value in it, vs. thinking that the WalMart is a better value. But he is trying to point out the common person a.k.a. Joe Smo who is not much into computers will not see the differences in value. And stating that these stupid arguments will not change his/her mind because he already knows the real value.
It is a method called Devils Advocate which means trying to look at the other side of the story.
Oh Oh it is a flamebait because he dared to put an Apple Computer on the same level as a Walmart budget box. And yet the poster is a Mac Faithful, but he just wanted to point out the Average Budget PC buyer my go with something cheaper and still think apples are expensive. I guess it could be a flamebait because someone gets angry when Apple is not #1.
The only reason Apple would release a workstation-class box without a screen is because it hooks up to a screen you already have... your TV.
Apple is all about the out-of-box experience. They're not going to require customers to have to purchase a separate monitor. If this is real, I guarantee it's their long-anticipated Media Center device (aka TiVo on steroids)... I'll be really surprised if they don't include DVD burning, though...
http://www.apple.com.au/server/clustering_resourc
good start point for further research...
Sounds great. Of course, I'll believe it when I see it. My main wish is that it includes an easy way to connect to a TV and run software at 640x480. That would turn it in to the ultimate media centric machine. Being able to browse my iTunes and iPhoto libraries on the living room TV would be nirvana. Add some TiVo like functionality software, and you've got a device that is attractive to several markets.
I've been wanting such a device for awhile now, and just can't bring myself to use Windows Media Center or any of the freeware Linux solutions.
I'd probably never buy one of these myself, since I'm quite happy with my PowerBook.
But my parents often struggle with various computer related issues, especially spyware and viruses, and as the family geek, I end up doing tech support for them.
I've often thought about pointing them towards a Mac, but I've been hesitant to do so, because of the expense and the risk that they'll find it frustrating if some random piece of software they care about doesn't work.
But at $500, I could easily see myself giving them one of these for Christmas next year, and helping them to migrate to it. The major things they do with their computer are manage digital photos and access the web. This machine should be able to handle those tasks with no problem. Even if I decide to add some memory and throw in a KVM as insurance to let them keep using the old machine, it's still in a reasonable price range for a gift.
This could be a pretty significant break-out product, for Apple.
The answer is Yes, it would -- but so what? :) The Alpine deck must suffer the same thing, right? (Correction welcome; I've only even touched an iPod a few times in my life, and have never see the Alpine unit, only read about it.)
... all of these are messy, but model incompatibilities are a fact of life. It would still be a cool piece of hardware :)
Pick a starting point ("This will work only with 4th Gen iPods"), or sell models which differ in their width, or make the opening flexible enough to take all models
(And since HP is now selling / branding iPods, I'm reminded of the HP tower computer I saw a few months ago with a removable hard drive right on its front panel. Just like with my iPod idea here, it will only work with the models it was designed for, but that's just the nature of the thing.)
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I doubt it, I have an imac and while my experence with my OSX is ok, I don't see me buying their overpriced computers.
And before you fanboys start pointing out to the overpriced dells/etc, there are other price factors such as software, hardware(just about all console to pc save backup devices are Windows only), and games(don't even mention consoles, I already have them, and I also enjoy PC games and more titles then the few ported to the mac). And no, I do not feel like wasing the cash to buy an OK mac and a gaming rig.
" You posted on the 29th. Exactly WHICH x-mass were you referring to?"
ukrainian xmas.
"WHY DO UKRAINIANS CELEBRATE Christmas on January 7th rather than December 25th? Many people wonder why the Ukrainian date is thirteen days later and only a few people are aware that it is related to a change from the calendar which was in use two thousand years ago.
Tradition plays a great part in the lives of people of Ukrainian origin and it is for this reason that they have continued to celebrate Christmas on the old date that would have been observed by all Christians.
The Roman calendar that had been in use since the eighth century B.C. originally started the year on March 1 and had 10 months as the names of the months themselves indicate, September (7), October (8), November (9) and December (10). Eventually two months were added, Januarius and Februarius, and the year was started on January. However, it was only 355 days long so it had over ten days error and the seasons and the calendar over the years continued to lose their correct relationship. "
not so smart now eh?
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Except for "Edutainment," I really don't see them taking on the console croud. The main problem is the lack of games on the Mac, and I don't think the new budget mac would even run them decently.
Apple really hasn't shown or given devlopers much of a reason to devlope/port their stuff for the Macintosh. There really isn't too much of an incentive for companies to do a mac version. I use to be a Mac user, but I got sick of their ignoring the game side while the PC kept getting more and more GOOD games.
Plus in this article most Mac users are suggesting people buy consoles for their gaming needs, and those buying the budget mac probably wouldn't buy it for games.
Apple hardware tends to keep its value well. (For instance, I'm typing this on a 4.5-year-old iBook which has been heavily abused, survived international travel with little padding and 60-or-so-thousand miles of road tripping, is on its 2nd battery.)
:)
;)
This is good for the owners, bad for anyone who's ever looked for used Apple gear. The presence of a low-end but decent new machine would be good for those seeking used stuff
Oh, I hope TS is right on this one
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I'm somewhat disappointed that this won't be the old cube (or a new, aluminized version). Also, I have a feeling that it will have crap onboard graphics that won't be upgradable and probably some kind of crap 2-generation old memory technology.
1.25GHz G4 without Quartz Extreme would be a poor introduction to OS X IMHO. At least make sure there's a standard AGP or PCIe slot.
But, given the new iMac, they'll screw this up. It'll be an LCD-less iMac with the crap video soldered in. Meh.
I call bullshit on that.. DVD-RWs these days are priced where CDRWs were not too long ago.. You can get an entry model DVD-RW at what, $40 these days?
"Slightly more than those 2 - but not by much." I'd call a factor of 3 more than slight. Christ, 2 of them are X11 apps (Evolution!). If you run all 6 simultaneously, it's no wonder 256 MB isn't enough.
Your troll doesn't even make sense. Everyone knows Steve Jobs is the religious leader. It doesn't make sense for him to be kidnapped.
It's worth noting that, though a 1.25GHz G4 may seem poky by today's standards it is still a very capable processor. Two years ago the fastest Mac in the world wasn't much faster than 1.25GHz (dual 1.4, I believe). Video editing and GarageBand etc. will still be entirely possible on this box. (I'd venture to say that the majority of iMovie use still occurs on
It won't be super, but it will be more than adequate for the Mac experience. Hell, I'm typing this on a 1.5GHz G4 Powerbook, and it's more than fast enough for the Apple suite, Photoshop and Illustrator, and even a little World of Warcraft. So don't write this machine off as suitable only for email and word processing right off the bat.
This is a loss leader primarily to show off OS/X. If they've got half a brain, it'll come with a VNC server built-in, a short crossover network cable, and a Windows VNC client for the PC.
:-)
Then it will be possible to experience the OS X environment without having to fiddle about with monitor and keyboard plugs. It won't be long before it's obvious to the new owner that the new Mac is the machine of choice. At that time the situation can be reversed. Then we'll need a VNC sever on the PC, and a VNC client viewer on the Mac, so include those too. A DHCP server too, so network setup is a doddle.
Listen, Apple!! That's good advice, forget that you first read about it on Slashdot.
I've got news for you--the dirt-cheapest Dell that you can get with a DVD-RW is the Dimension 3000, without a monitor) for $585 after shipping (they charge $99 even without a monitor--)...and that's without FireWire and with a pathetic 90 DAY warranty. And Dell is already the king of razor-thin margins.
I just popped by, and I see active bidding on G4-450 towers at $475-$510.
That's a big difference from a 1.25 GHz G4.
Macs tend to hold their value. Few enough of them are sold in the first place that if someone wants a specific model, they're generally willing to pay.
G4s at 1.25 GHz are going for more like $800-$1300, depending on base config. Then, of course, there's the shipping on one of those monsters. 50 lb units off e-bay aren't always the deal they at first seem to be.
Casual users don't want to buy used. I don't want to buy a giant wind tunnel. This solves both those problems.
Plug PC into mac. Plug mac into existing keyboard, mouse, monitor.
The pass-through should also include ethernet, just to cut down on cable clutter.
You could easily make a simple physical "mac/not mac" switch on the front of the machine (next to the drive & on/off buttons).
I would buy one. I might buy two.
You know what would rock on this thing; TV Out.
Instant media centre, webtv, basic games box. Get MAME on it and your set.
Some facts:
1: For each one minute lengthening in average support call times, Apple Computer needs to pay something like US $1 Million in wages, phone bills, electricity, rent, infrastructure and the like to accommodate the extra staff that needs to be employed to handle the calls.
2: The people calling for support are the most unskilled and computer illiterate users. Apple's support are already lower then the industry average as they target the less skilled users to begin with (When you tell a user to "Buy a Mac" because you can't be bothered to deal with them anymore, amazingly they do). Exactly the type of people that will have issues using a 2 button mouse.
No matter how many people wont buy a Mac as it has "only one button", no matter how much you will spend in your life, it is peanuts compared to the millions of dollars Apple would need to spend in support costs if it did it. If you have ever spent any time in support explaining the difference to someone between "left-click" and "right-click" multiply that by thousands of times a day, 7 days a week for years and years at a dollar or two in support costs. It all adds up, it all adds up very fast for a company with nearly a dozen support centres around the world taking hundreds of thousands of calls a week.
Besides, I thought all you people wanted cheaper Macs? 2 button mice cost more then 1 button mice to make, especially if there IS no button like the current Macs mice are (the whole top of the Mouse is a single piece of plastic, very cheap to make). Just buy the 3rd party USB 2 button mouse with a scroll wheel and grab the good karma from the service you are doing your fellow techs by NOT submitting them to the luser calls about right-clicking. :)
For that price you can get a much nicer box running Linux, with a better interface and the ability to run the same 2 games that you could on the Mac. Even at 500$ that machine is still about twice the cost (once you have a monitor and all) as a PC running Windows with similar performance. Only the Windows will have more software that anyone wants to run.
When are we going to get -1 fanboi moderation?
The Farewell Tour II
1. Apple might decide to make less money and go for some market share. At worst they'll break even, at best they will win a lot of converts. Cheap is good for Apple. 2. Even if the $500 Mac is 1.25GHz, that's more than enough for almost everybody. I can still run the newest OS X and Photoshop on my PB G4 400mhz with 384MB of RAM. I do design work on this thing. It's not fast, but it's still plenty POWERFUL. 3. There's plenty to differentiate between Apple's product lines already. Even between a $500 headless Mac and the eMac, the big differentiation is THE FORM FACTOR. Believe it or not, most people who buy the eMac actually like having it all-in-one and will still buy it even if it costs more. Schools are the big one here. 4. Small PCs are big now. People are putting PCs in places that they never went before, the kitchen, the bedroom, installations, on top of the TV. Small is a growing niche and it will sell on this alone. 5. Go fanless and you never go back. Silent computing is the biggest trend to come. Everyone I know who bought a fanless iMac or nearly fanless laptop has sworn to never buy a computer with a fan again.
And I'm still waiting for that Linux version of Halo...
We'll get a -1 fanboi at the same time we get a -1 Clueless.I can get a comparable PC for Dell for $350... maybe Apple shouldn't be competing in the low end market; their forte is ease of use, not price/performance.
I often go into the Apple Store at Tyson's here in DC. I oogle the 30" flat panel and dual 2.5 PowerMac. I have the means to buy it, if I could justify it. Alas, a Mac can't run a number of very important applications necessary for my work as a Software Architect (e.g. Rational Enterprise Studio). Therefore, my big computer dollars must be directed towards a PC. I notice on my visits that others are oogling the same way I am, but have the same frown -- too much money for a secondary machine. Lump those folks in with the hip younger crowd who really want the fanciness but can't afford it. Put a $500 machine in front of us and we will snatch it up. The luscious user interface and smooth integration with digital cameras and my iPod. Yummy. They are gonna sell like hot cakes even at $799.
One might say this analysis is flawed due to the eMac, but let's face facts the eMac is ugly. It lacks the sexiness of the PowerMac or iMac. It is built for school children and lacks the sophistication that we all want as adults. A sleek, cost-effective Mac will sell very well. Furthermore, if they offer a few well targeted upgrades, they will lure folks like me to turn the little $500 computer into a $1200 souped up mini-workstation.
Where can I place my pre-order?
that is hilarious... running X11 and alternate toolkits and expecting it to not use more than 256 mb :) Evolution is huge! Run Safari and iTunes like you said and it will be screaming fast... so will any other regular OS X app... your problem is X11 and it's general bloatware :)
Q-Eighty-Eight sounds a bit like "You Idiot"... perhaps that's the joke that's going over our heads?
"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello
>1) not be true or
How could it not be true?
They list "sources" as their sources!
The Apple community is not known to do any sort of crazy speculation or pranks.
ThinkSecret is a widely respected website which we have all heard of.
Apple can magically lower the prices on its components to sell at $499. Using magic!
Every iPod owner tells me "I am listening to music and iTunes runs fine on my computer, but for some reason I want to write a 600 dollar check to Apple computers."
sheez, this is pathetic rumor mill stuff. This is so predicatable, before every keynote speech by Jobs another "credible" wish-fulfilment Apple rumor appears. Apple can't or just won't sell at Walmart prices. Get used to it or find a way around it (buy used).
Because you are an AC... I'm not to keen on taking your post seriously... I will reply though.
Despite your claims... I am not anti-mac, I am mac-indiferent. They've got a decent platform and pretty hardware... but I have no interest in it.
I am on the other hand, very proudly (and loudly) anti-linux. Please, do get your facts straight.
As for my comment about "seeing if it works", I would refer you to the parent post to my original one where the commenter said "Plus, at $500, geeks can afford to buy it and find out if it's easy to get their work done on it" to which I summarized it to "see if it works" which I think is a fair translation, to see if it works for them.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
This isn't really being positioned as a computer; this is the world's biggest iPod accessory. j
My work PC doesn't use any of its PCI slots for anything.
Wierd that I just relized that.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Firewire networking ha sbeen around for ages on both Mac's and PC's, NIC problem solved.
Next up we have the harddrive issue, external enclosure, if it's a firewall, it doesn't need to move, also, what does a firtewall need a 160gig drive foor? Or a super fast one for that mater. I have a G3 tower with ATA 33 and have no issues with useing it as a firewall, with firewire networking.
USB 2.0 Hi Speed is what you were going for I believe, no such thing as "USB" anymore. Why do you need USB 2.0 with firewire built it? I see no advantages to the USB 2.0 Hi Speed specification over Firewire.
SATA is a waste IMO, SCSI is a much better choice, but this is the only thing you mentioned that holds water. ATA is a shity choice for a primary hard drive as only 1 drive can talk at a time on an ATA bus, but I believe Apple puts it's optical drives on a seperate bus.
"Hell, the first apples sold for $666,"
s /A ppleStore?family=eMac
yeah but that was in 1980, that like a galillion dollars in todays money!
not a thousand dollars:
799.00
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObject
ask your friends to check the price after they have speced a system that is worth using.
The base Dell is painfull even if you just surf the internet.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The something is that Microsoft is the only target. While as described, only a drooling tard would pay twice as much for a Windows Media Center of inferior performance deliberately DRM broken with a G5 Mac pizzabox which Just Works as the other choice, I can think of a rapidly expanding niche market that this box would be ideally suited to attack.
The market is, of course, the Linux desktop for the non ubergeek user.
I've put the last year into learning the Linux desktop, and paid for it in part by writing Linux tutorials for publication. In part, I've been doing this because it looks like the market for people who know Linux is expanding rapidly in the places in the world I want to go. (the EU and Canada, the US politicians seem to be bent on destroying the ability for non-corporates to do technology R&D because the Hollywood content cartel wants it that way)
The main advantages of desktop Linux for the non-fanatic are:
The difference between cheap commodity x86 hardware and low cost high-quality Mac hardware is one most of us can probably live with.
The difference between It Just Works and the fun and games involved with adding new hardware and software to a Linux box is also something all of us but the hard core fanatics can live with. While the automated installer tools like apt-get/synaptic are probably as good as anything Apple sells and far better than anything Redmond ever imagined, it's really too bad that outside of the apps bundled with distributions, there isn't a whole lot that you can install with them.
Throw in the much larger number of applications which actually work and meet user needs available on the Mac platform and there aren't a whole lot of reasons to go with Linux as an alternative to Windows given a low-cost entry-level Mac platform which will probably physically break a lot less often than an eMachine or a Dell.
Don't tell me about the wonders of Open Office Writer and other FOSS apps, since I live in the real world, the "minor compatibility issues" get a lot more serious when I'm submitting copy to editors who run MS Word on Windows boxes. GIMP vs PaintShopPro? The only reason I can run Linux on my primary workstation, i.e. the box that helps me make a living is that Win4Lin(WHICH IS NOT FREE) works far better than WINE does, and therefore, I can run just about anything Windows in a Windows window over my copy of Fedora Core 2.
So what would a Linux box on a cheap x86 platform do for a user that a low-cost Mac doesn't? Break more often? Cause a user trying to install something or make it work after installing to spend lots and lots of time on the Web?
As for "looks a lot like the future", imagine yourself as an enterprise CIO who's sick of paying MS tax and paying to fix the endless series of major software security problems with MS and buying cheap commodity PCs that constantly break who gets pitched Apple quality, OSX, and a chance to reduce in-house support staff at the same time. With the other option being a consultant group pitching FOSS and saying "well, some of your boxes will support Linux, we'll have to see".
I've been investing time in Linux because I see a world evolving beyond MS's product line and I want to be one of the people who can explain it and fix it for a world full of Linux newbies who just bought or had corporate get them Linux boxes to replace their aging XP machines. A *nix OS that does everything Linux does, only better, puts that plan in question.
I'm putting my planned x86 hardware upgrade on hold until I find out if this is for real or not. If Apple can compete at the low end, Linux desktops may not have mu
Tech Public Policy stuff
Every eMac (The current budget Mac) that I've run into ended up having serious hardware issues within a year.
Unless Apple figures out what it's doing wrong on the hardware side, I wouldn't recommend that anyone buy one of those machines.
Secondly, Motorola is going to spin off their chip division as Freescale Semiconductor. They've recently released a new G4 rev with a number of new features included an upgraded bus speed.
Finally, IBM has a number of high performance G3 PowerPC chips to which the PPC970's AltiVec unit could be added, such as the 750CX, making a G4-like processor which could be used to replace the current Motorola G4s.
I dunno, that $666 Apple was missing some essential functionality.
Like, uh, a case, a keyboard. Power plug. More than 4k of RAM.
Even the cassette interface was extra! Although they did throw in the BASIC tape with the interface.
That said, this was a triumph of low-cost personal computing. Woz rules!
Ooh. Let me look down at my Dock just now. Hmm ... I seem to have thirteen GUI apps open, not counting the Finder.
Safari, iChat, AdiumX, Skype, iTunes, iCal, Final Cut Express, Terminal, Photoshop, TextEdit, Activity Monitor, Quicksilver, and Preview.
I'm typing this in Safari as I wait for a video to finish exporting to a final file in Final Cut Express. As a matter of fact, it finished as I was typing here and I was notified without the little window stealing focus from me and vanishing as I typed. So, I quickly switched over to FCE, switched sequences, and started exporting that one. Then, I used Expose to switch back here all in about ten seconds total time I was gone from this text box. Photoshop has some pictures I've been composing for use in DVD menus and other basic things like that.
A buddy just IMed me in iChat. I told him about your asinine post and even gave him a link by dragging the page from Safari. Oh, and there's another buddy in Adium. Again with the Expose luvins.
I'm using iTunes to play background music, and I've got a special extension installed that gives me global hotkeys for it. A song came on a moment ago that I didn't like, so I skipped it without even taking my hands away from the keyboard or switching to iTunes.
Now, I'll admit, iCal is just sitting there open. I don't use it for much, but I like to have it ready the moment I want to put anything into it or read my schedule.
In the terminal, I've been sshing into another box where I store a few files. Nothing really heavy, and I haven't typed in it in at least ten minutes, since I don't exactly need it right now, but I want the connection to still be open when I do need it in a few more minutes, once this video finishes.
I've been using TextEdit like a scratchpad. Storing little notes and so forth about render times, drive space requirements, and even links to a few sites I've stumbled across that I want to remember to send to some friends who are offline. As a matter of fact, your comment has its own special line in that scratchpad.
Activity Monitor is up so I can monitor my processor usage. I like to know my system stats. Things like that, network activity, disk usage and activity, memory allocation, and so forth.
Quicksilver is running so I can do quick searches for any app or document on my hard drive. Ctrl-Space and I get a nice input line floating on top of everything else where I can type a simple search query.
I've got some manuals open in Preview. I read them off-and-on, mostly as I need to figure out how to use a new piece of software I'm still learning.
Now, I'd love to see anyone do all this on a Windows box anywhere near as efficiently as I do it on my Mac. I can Cmd-Tab, but why would I want to when I can use Expose with keyboard access to get to any window I want just as quickly, and much more precisely, since it lets me pick windows within applications?
As for the upgrades, you realize that each new version of Windows costs at least $200 for a full install of the Home version, right? And $300 for the Pro. Apple will let you do a full install of OS X 5 times for $200. And there is no Home version of OS X.
Admittedly, Linux is cheaper, but it also isn't anywhere near as usable for the vast majority of tasks. It has no equivalent of Final Cut. It has no equivalent of Photoshop, QuarkXPress, or SoundTrack. Not to mention the other high-end software I use on a fairly regular basis. So please, know something about what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
that a 1.25 ghz g4 isnt enough power, i have an entire lab of first and second gen g4 (400-466mhz) with slightly upgraded ram (384mb) and am having my students run photoshop and illustrator (in my 2d class) and bryce and cinema 4d (in my 3d class) these machines, while not as fast as my dual 1ghz g4, get the job done admirably. I also must say that we havent had any problems with these machines at all, period, since they were purchased. and in response to some of the comments about having a $500 headless mac by buying one on ebay... well, yes, you can but a mac on ebay, with: 450mhz g4, 100mhz system bus, pc100 memory, an ati rage 128pro (PCI 16mb video ram) and a maximum drive size of 128 gigs. now tell me how that is better then a 1.25ghz, 167mhz system bus, PC2700 DDR, a (not sure on model yet) much better graphics card and max drive size of 250 gigs.
One thing I don't get is where are they going to get the head from? The Apple Store doesn't sell any low end monitors (the lowest end being the 1299 20" Cinema Display), and surely they don't expect the consumer to seek a different location for a monitor? So where are they going to get this head, and how much is it going to cost? Would a consumer rather buy a $500 headless Mac and a $100 CRT monitor then a $799 eMac? As an Apple Store employee, this just doesn't make sense to me. Why would they want to sell a $500 computer when the extra cost of a monitor would nullify the fact that it is a cheap Mac? Sure, customers could just use a monitor they already have, but most people when buying a computer expect to get the whole package, and generally have planned uses for older computers. Their planned uses may never come to fruitiion, but that doesn't matter at the time of purchase. I think the idea overall is pretty cool for the geek community, but for the consumer I don't see it. I could certainly imagine selling these at the Apple Store, but it would take up uneccessary space for what would probably be a redundant product.
This page was generated by a Barrel of Circus Midgets, and that is the way I like it!!!
Have you tried running osx on 256ram? It really, really sucks.
AppleInsider also has their own version of this rumor with slightly different details, and MacOSRumors has been reporting tidbits for the last year. These three sites have a startlingly high degree of accuracy in their rumor reports. When these three sites all agree on the basic concept, you can pretty much consider it "confirmed."
Usually when they appear to be "wrong" about something, it's the result of Apple holding off on a product announcement for some unforeseen reason. Barring those cases, you can bet if these sites are reporting it, it's in the works.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Could iMac Mini be the first of the x86 line?
No idea - just speculating.
I'd love to have one of those babies to sneak into my employers network to host my development hacks and scm repositories. Being somewhat familiar with bsd roots of OSX, I am currently hacking on FreeBSD but there are much more binary distribs on OSX for app's I'd like to work with.
..... :]
I't would be great to have these boxes in other applications like at my family restaurant and bakery. I could build a very low cost Recipe, scheduling, POS... system and all running Obj-C, Python, Java, JavaScript
Let it be, let it be...
JsD
This is still a rumor dude. Apart from vague comments made about the design, the sub-500bux Macintosh is far from being solid fact.
Last I checked, Carracho was free. :P
(disclaimer : my software is actually legal, but thanks to the shit being VASTLY more expensive than, say, a cocaine or heroin habit, I'm several versions behind on very nearly everything.)
...only if the iMac and eMacs were the only computers that Apple made. As they aren't, I don't see that you have much of a point. People don't bitch at Shuttle for not putting out compact boxes with 6 PCI slots for the cost of an X-
Box.
People usually argue that enthusiasts like myself should be buying PowerMacs, but the whole point is that a $500 PC is just as capable of doing these things as a $2000 PowerMac.
Once you add all the stuff you are talking about, its not going to be $500 anymore. Duh. And PowerMacs aren't $2000, either. If you want a deal, either wait till Apple updates the line, and grab a unsold machine of the previous generation for a hefty discount. Or if you don't want to wait, get a refurb, they have the same warranty. The cheapest one they list at the online store is a 1.8 GHz 512MB 160GB SuperDrive for $1400.
If you're complaining that Apple doens't offer a cheap box of parts, just stop because its not going to happen, and that chestnut is older than Ray Charles's great grandfather, and Ray himself is old. And dead.
As for your list, Firewire makes just about everything on your list irrelevant, and iMacs have had Firewire for what, five years now? Six? As for having two giganics, just how many people need two on a personal computer? Certainally not for a firewall.
To a minority, they do matter
Keep in mind that having a plethora of models for every conceivable minority was killing Apple in the mid-90's. Unless there's a major shift in the computing industry, Apple will never deviate from having seperate "consumer" and "pro" lines.
As for using even a first gen iMac...how many cable/dsl modems DON'T have a usb port? And even if they don't, you can get USB -> ethernet adapters pretty cheaply these days. Boom, firewall.
If you're comparing a 2 port to a 4 port switch, of course the 2 porter is going to cost a lot less. So how much is CompactCable's 4 port switch?
People who make more than $60,000 can afford a Mac as an impulse buy.
Hells, bells, man, for about $800 bucks you can get a eMac. My brothers (who make probably half of what I do easily) both have eMacs.
Sheesh!
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
Aren't these the same guys that predicted the iPod was a PDA?
Bundle them with a game controller and some Pangea software such as Nanausur or Bugdom. Make sure it has TV out. You would sell millions of these through Costco. I recall when they would sell Xbox or PS2 "bundles" with extra controllers and memory cards, etc for about $300. Now you can buy a whole computer and game machine. Reminds me of the popularity of the C64 years ago. A completely different thought, since they are small and presumably silent why not daisy-chain via firewire and stack several of these. You can then use the the xGrid utility to have a small grid computer.
And why would I want to ruin my beautiful Linux with Halo. That game blows.
The Farewell Tour II
The OSX interface is clunky with multiple applications at best.
The Farewell Tour II
So this means I can have a $500 (650) mac, that looks like a small Xserve (DVDplayer size), with Ethernet for broadband, v.92 for analog data and fax, DVI for my flatscreen / plasma TV, USB and firewire in front for DVcam and digital photo camera, Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, so I can sit on the couch, feet up, and surf, record, go to iTMS and burn (V)CD's and eat Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia??? And small and cool for in the living room????? Can I play Xbox2 Games with VirtualXbox should they put a G5 in it???
Wil it run Windows Digital Media Edition or Tiger??
When can I order??
Please, then rear firewire for EyeTV and matching colors...
--- 'Pain heals, chicks dig scars... glory... lasts for ever!' -- "Footstep" Falco
Call me old fashioned but I don't see how any normal user would consider my 1.25 g4 powermac slow.
Now my 333 g3 powerbook is slow but totally useable with OS X and I do use it every day.
If Apple does release a $500 computer I see it being a huge success.
Apple shall nevah make a low-end product just as BMW shall nevah stoop to competing with Saturns
Or some such. You know what I'm talking about.
But the fact is, Apple's now an mp3 player company that happens to sell a tiny number of computers, too. And they're nice computers. I sure like ours. But if it or Wall Street thought iPods would translate into Powerbook or PowerMac sales, they were dreaming.
iPods might translate into sales of inexpensive headless boxes, though. They might if you can say, "Well, that cheap-ass Dell is no deal when I can get a decent machine for the same price." And it might work on impulse terms, too, especially if Apple builds on the kind of this-is-an-iPod-styled-computer metaphor it used in the introduction of the recent iMac. Oddly and ironically, you'd be accessorizing your iPod with a new computer. Hell, why not? Paradigms shift.
Then again, maybe the Pinth-Garnell set is right, and Apple will never stoop. But Jobs is shrewd, and the economic forecast for USA, Inc., is gloomy and getting gloomier. Maybe, just maybe, it's time to stoop!
At the right time. If so, I will buy it.
Open Office better get their butts in gear and release an OSX native version. I doubt anybody that can afford only a $500 iMac will want to spring for a copy of OfficeX anytime soon. AppleWorks is cool, but if you're going to share documents with others, you'll be SOL.
There's no way this will suck. In fact, I would go as far as believe that this will ship with 10.4 (Tiger), and it will be heavily optimized (as 10.3 was) to reduce memory footprint and increase overall speed. If they ship this thing w/64 MB of graphics RAM (all too likely), then the eye candy alone will make people crowd around the machine at Circuit City.
This isn't one of those cheap Microsoft MSN boxes - this is a real computer with real hardware running a world-class secure OS.
I'll bet you that a 1.25 GHz G4 running Tiger will kick your average home PC in the ASS - especially because of your average homes PC's spyware. Being a spyware cleaner myself, I've seen people actually go out and BUY another computer because they think the performance problems are hardware related!
I think that Steve Jobs has gained wisdom from his experience at Pixar (not a bad movie yet!), and from NeXT. He has learned to listen to his customers. Companies that continue to do that rarely fail. That, coupled with his drive for perfection is turning Apple around.
I have a lot more to say on the mini iMac convergence issue in my journal. I truly believe this is a revolution in the making for Apple.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Well, I'm a PC dude and got an iPod thanks to that free deal that people despise.
$500 on a mac and using a monitor I already have (Will the one I use on a PC work?) sounds cool to me as a neat gift. I wouldn't completely convert as I need that lovely Windows and Visual Studio to do some school programming, but I can imagine spending time on it.
I've been egging my boss for two years to get new Macs for my department (weekly newspaper production) to replace our current setups (two PM G4 400Mhz, one PM G3 300MHz and one PM 6500 120MHz) and, being a traditional penny-pinching publisher, have gotten little more out of him than a pair of new mice and a smattering of software upgrades (Quark 6, FontAgent Pro).
G5s are way out of his price range. Even the discounted PM G4 1.25s (while they were still available) were rejected because buying three meant spending in the neighborhood of $7K.
As long as these $500 boxes can be upgraded to at least 1 GB RAM and can connect to a VGA monitor, my wish for new hardware this year may come true.
I bought my home system in March '03 (dual 1.4GHz) and at the time that was the fastest Mac on the planet. A single 1.25GHz ain't no slouch if you have to work on a 400MHz G4 all day. I feel sorry for the guy running Quark 6 & Photoshop on the G3 300, that's cruel & unusual punishment.
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
Okay, so Mr. No Skills should have written "desktop" instead of "workstation." But please excuse the semantics, as this will be a very nice box if it does the things you list! I have been waiting for way too long to upgrade my Cube, and this should (finally) be a suitable replacement. I hope I can swap out the video card though, one of the most compelling things about the Cube IMHO is the sweet ADC monitor.
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
Of course, one other surprisingly addictive aspect of OS X is hooking a Mac to a DV camcorder. Now you need firewire and a SuperDrive (and iDVD). Try and do that for $600!
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
I think the way they did it back when I was young was o.k....
Plug it into your t.v., most people have a better television than my current monitor nowadays anyway. Might be my reason to finally get that hdtv..... iLife, meet media center, media center, meet iLife.
was to include just that, but supposedly was scrapped... may show up at a later date.
So turn on multiple users with fast user switching. There, problem solved.
i did read the f******* article. It hasnt mentioned the os it would be running yet? perhaps is this the foray into microsoft territory by using a stripped down os like in their sub 200 internet/amd thing. simply put is this a full blown OS or a stripped down one. considering the bloated price of an ipod, look how much more they get if they get the pc as well.
epsecially if some simpleton is going to base his pc choice of his ipod fetish/cultural myopia.
Fast user switching is a poor substitute for virtual desktops.
You can't just run the mouse off a side of the screen to get to a different desktop.
You can't move a window from one desktop to another.
You have to type a password each time you switch users.
Each time you switch your iChat session logs out and in.
These are just the problems that spring immediately to mind--I'm sure there are many more. Programs like Desktop Manager solve most of them, but integrated virtual desktops would be better.
"Aren't these the same guys that predicted the iPod was a PDA?"
Isn't it?
Books games contacts and calendar. Oh I forgot the music...
Granted I would love Newton Handwriting, but all you people would just "eat Martha" or some such.
Games. i agree it should be easier.
"something that you buy once ever few years and then throw away"
You really don't know Apple users do you?
"People who think computers are cute (yes, even my mother) should not be the ones making the decisions to purchase them."
You're making Stalin look bad.
"I have yet to see any major vendors (like Best Buy or CompUSA) offer upgrades for the new iMac in the hard drive department. Right now, we have to do purchases like that directly through Apple or an authorized vendor, and it's not cheap."
You should lose your job. I'm not in IT except for friends and family, but I was able to waltz into compusa, buy a western digital, and slap it into my 1999 iMac with no problem.... It's very easy... I think you're really just worried about job security, or you don't really have that job.
Go back to playing minesweeper.
Oh, and everyone knows to order their Apple with the LOWEST POSSIBLE ram available in order to use what they already own or buy it somewhere cheap... another very easy upgrade...
I think the Q88 that is rumored is a media server that will dock the iPod, connect to your Mac and distribute video around the home using an upgraded Airport wireless system. Perhaps having some sort of TiVo like abilities and a built in DVD player! A headless Mac to me makes no sense given that the consumer models are going to the G5.
I just save and send my documents as a pdf... I wish everyone did. I use text edit to open the few .doc files I get from stubborn people.
You don't need a password for your accounts
A 20GB iPod is about the same price as this rumored computer... if the iPod went down to CAN$250 or so, I might buy one... but it's too expensive right now.
sif teh MAC h45 megahurz!!! AMD pwnz megahurz!!! teh cheap MAC fail sit. LOLLLLOL!!!! foo!!
I think that's what he was saying. noob.
=)