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OPEC prefer presidents that aren't mid-east warmongers.
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/web_us_average_gas_price_chart.php?period=10year

When a no republican was going to become the president, the price dropped, dramatically.
And even after the incredibly steep drop, it was still higher then when bush took office.

You can trend OPEC response to presidents mid east policy for decades.

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/web_us_average_gas_price_chart.php?period=15year

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2012/02/27/how-high-have-gas-prices-risen-over-the-years/

It might not be the oil companies fault as is some states there is a minimum markup that must exist on gasoline. Here in Minnesota it is $0.08 a gallon. Also the states and federal government ($0.184 per gallon) make far more money from gasoline taxes than the oil companies make in profit from the sale of gasoline. Also keep in mind how many billions of gallons of fuel we burn each year (about 378 million gallons a day). What you have is a low margin very high volume product.

Also for the exact Minnesota the defines that cost of gasoline and states that is can't be sold for below cost. Below is the section defining cost:
(3) for purposes of gasoline offered for sale by way of posted price or indicating meter by a retailer, at a retail location where gasoline is dispensed into passenger automobiles and trucks by the consumer, "cost" means the average terminal price on the day, at the terminal from which the most recent supply of gasoline delivered to the retail location was acquired, plus all applicable state and federal excise taxes and fees, plus the lesser of six percent or eight cents.

Deductions are there so you don't overpay in tax

A few are, but not most. Only the deductions for other taxes paid. A deduction for property tax paid is to keep you from overpaying tax, a deduction for mortgage interest is not. Note you can't deduct interest on your car loan.

I've owned and I've rented, and rents are -- must be -- more expensive than mortgages on the same property, or the landlord could make no profit. A shining example is the difference between the big two story house I lost after my divorce; the mortgage payment was less than the tiny apartment my daughter and I moved into. "My ROOM was bigger than this apartment!" she lamented.

11k deductions right off the bat? Maybe if you're married and have six kids. Not if you're single. You have to be extremely poor to get the Earned Income tax credits, and all but that one require you to have dependant children.

Food is taxed in Illinois (very regressive taxes here). Damned near everything is taxed, and taxed highly; folks on the east side of the river in the St Louis area buy their gasoline and cigarettes in Missouri because the taxes make them so uch cheaper there (while Missouri will charge you property tax on your car if you live there). And groceries aren't a very large part of my expenses, although they were when my daughters were teenagers. I probably only spend twice on food what I spend on cleaning supplies, laundry, etc., and those all have sales tax added everywhere that has a sales tax.

I agree that the middle class (especially upper middle class) pay higher income taxes, especially in states with a progressive tax system. Only the very rich and very poor get government assistance.

I get a good sized chunk back in April, but that's because I claim zero dependants on my W-4; I had a huge income tax bill one year when the ex and I lived in Florida working for starvation wages, and claimed zero ever since. It was a hardship paying that big chunk of change that April.

Those government benefits that supposedly benefit the poor are really benefiting the poor's employers, who don't have to pay a living wage like they do in most countries (link).

When you're poor you don't notice the tax burdens, because most of your taxes are invisible -- sales taxes, excise taxes, etc. Federal gasoline taxes are $.185 per gallon, Illinois gasoline taxes are an additional ninteen cents, plus 6.5% sales tax, plus .3% underground storage tax, plus local taxes on top of it. The taxes alone on a tank of gasoline will cost someone earning minimum wage an hour's work. Those taxes on someone upper middle class are equal to a few minutes' work, seconds for the rich, and so low as to be a statistical error on the very rich. The poor man, when he's paying that $4.00 for a gallon doesn't notice that over ten percent of the price is tax (more like 20 or 25 percent a year or two ago before the oil companies started raping us). He doesn't notice the property taxes he's indirectly paying, he doesn't notice the taxes on communications, utilities, and everything else he's being taxed to death on. Taxes on the poor are largely invisible, but they're there nevertheless.

Surely your cities have evolved with untaxed fuel so it has been plausible for people to drive much longer distances and hence they have a lower population density.

I'm sorry -- what now? Untaxed fuel?! The federal tax on fuel is currently 18.4 cents per gallon. State taxes are anywhere between 14 and 30 cents per gallon.

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

Maybe you think 50 cents per gallon tax is too little? Maybe for a European it is, but then, we're not Europeans and don't believe in being slaves to the government. Don't worry, though, we're pretty quickly donning our shackles so we can be just like you.

You pay the toll at the gasoline pump through the ~70 cent per gallon tax.

As of 2005 the fuel tax in the US was 18.4/gal. On 28 September 2006 it was 24.5 cents per gallon. Of course states have their own fuel tax, but those range from 8 cents in Alaska to 32.1 cent per gallon in Wisconsin.

Falcon

Is 4.6% "about 3%"? According to http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp, the federal tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. Even assuming $4.00/gallon price, that's 4.6%.

Sounds a bit disingenuous to me, although I haven't RTFA. The feds tax gas at 18.4 cents per gallon. As gas here is around threee bucks (I paid 2.999 yesterday), that makes the federal tax on gas 6.1 cents per dollar; 6.1%. Here in Illinois there is another 21.5 cents per gallon tax, making the combined state and federal taxes on gasoline 13.2 cents per dollar.

So this says that as of November 1, there is going to be a greater tax on internet access than gasoline? And if it's a federal tax only, it will be over twice the rate gasoline is taxed?

Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical. This kind of sensationalist reporting is NOT the way to get me to write my congresscritters.

-mcgrew

(fittingly, the mind reading capcha is "limping", but the way some letters are hollowed out makes it look at first glance as if it says "mpg".)

I think the key words here are "net money"... I'll take my location as an example (Quebec, Canada). Lets say we're paying 0.90$ / liter (its close to that, right now)... a quick google on "taxes on gas in Canada" brings me the following source on tax info (who knows how accurate it is):

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/canadagastaxes.asp

Now, although I'm not 100% sure how the hell we apply all these taxes, I'll assume its as straight-forward as applying the two fed taxe (GST + excise) + the two provincial taxes (the provincial tax actually taxes the federal one in Quebec, go figure...). I probably have the order wrong, but one thing is clear: 0.252$ of that liter are tax right up front (not a percentage thing, but a static number). By taking that off the price of a liter, we're down to 0.648$ / liter.

Now, assuming the standard 6.0% fed tax (its been 6.0% since last summer, so the page is a bit outdated) and 7.5% prov tax (which is applicable on top of the fed tax) we can determine that out of that 0.648$ there is roughly 0.079$ of tax, so it comes out to 0.569$ / liter pre-taxes.

0.569$ is price of a liter pre-tax.
0.331$ is tax that the govts take (0.252$ + 0.079$).

I don't know how a govt works, but I assume that 0.331$ is pretty close to "net money". Assuming it costs the oil company LESS than 0.237$ / liter in overhead (raw costs, transportation, refining, transport, infrastructure, human resources...) then they'll be making more than the govt in "net money", but I have my doubts...

*** I know the grandparent said "federal govt" while I included provincial govt too, but to me its all the same... and yes, this is Canada where we're taxed to hell, and yes, I'm sure my calculations are pretty shady if not completely wrong! ***

maybe people in the USA are lucky to have such ridiculously low gas prices. startled aren't you ?

yeah. i bet.

In india, in most states, its about $4.50 a gallon, as compared to the *a somewhat lowly* $2.27 (http://www.gaspricewatch.com/new/)!!! thanks to the high state & central taxes - which forms about 40% of the gas price, ...most people prefer vehicles that offer more mileage/ economy.

According to the numbers quoted here http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp, taxes account for a small part of the price of a gallon of gas.

"The only way that the numbers in the US get anywhere close to 50% is when people illogically count the tax on a dollar, not a person"

I don't think it's so much that as counting the purchasing power of your dollar after subtracting out all the different times that you are taxed. I don't think you arrive at 50% unless you have a horrible accountant or are very very wealthy, but still.

Fed income tax : 15% (varies, but on average)
State income tax : 3.5% (varies a lot, but that's the middle ground in VA)
SS : 6% (actually 6.2)
Medicare : 1.5% (actually 1.45)

Total : 26%
I'm not sure how you're going to exempt social security. It's a forced garnishment from your paycheck. Everything the government collects from you is supposedly to pay you back or benefit you, so that aspect of SS isn't any different, except I suppose it's the one tax they track historically as you pay it. I personally don't count on it when I retire, as there's nothing to guarantee it, and analysts are projecting it to dissolve before I'll reach the age to benefit from it. But I digress...

Many states also drop a state sales tax on you, and in Virginia, that's a whopping 4.5%

In addition, localities exert their own taxes, my current one levies a 1% sales tax, in addition to a 4% tourist tax that affects many things I enjoy locally, for example any dine in restaurant. There are also a multitude of ways they stick you with extra taxes in the form of fees : parking fees, county stickers, property taxes (the stickers cost additional money on top of the property tax). Now, everyone's mileage will vary here, so I'm just going to round this one off to a 2% sales tax.

Add this all up and you're over the 30% mark. Live in a particularly bad state like NJ, or a high tax city, or make more money accelerating your income tax beyond 15%, and I could see these numbers climbing higher. Not sure what the reference for 50% was, but I wouldn't rule it out in some circumstances.

And we haven't even opened the discussion on the gas tax:
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

Virginia + Fed is a whopping 37.4 cents per gallon as of 2005, and they have made noises in the Congress of raising it again, in spite of all the tax cuts Bush like to promise. This not only affects your own travel, it jacks the price of anything you purchase.

See, this is where the argument of the tax hitting you several times comes to play. The gallon of milk you buy at the store pays the farmer about 11 cents. I've got family in New York, I know. By the time you buy it, it's up to 4 dollars, and you actually had to make 5 dollars to use that 4 to buy the milk. In between, the farmer got taxed, the transport company got taxed, the store got taxed, you got taxed when you bought it, and you got taxed again if you drive your car to and from the store. If all those taxes weren't in place, you wouldn't have to spend 50 times what the farmer got for the milk. All those taxes just drive the price to the final consumer, which tends to be you and me. So it IS my dollar that eats all the tax. I can't vouch it adds up to 50%, I'm too simple when it comes to all that math, but I can appreciate that it's the little guy that bares the burden.

Another problem is that while the system to collect, store, and distribute the information can be done and maintained open source, there's an implied accountability to the source of the data and a need to hold someone's feet to the fire when something's wrong or incomplete. I'm thinking of projects like "Gas Price Watch . Com" (http://www.gaspricewatch.com/ which is a great idea, but there's holes in the database and you can't make someone fill it in. Not such a big issue for them, but for being a source of comprehensive sales tax information its a pretty big challenge.

The technical problems are solvable by open source. I'm not sure the customer service ones are. Good idea, though.

A simple Google search will reveal that I am correct that the US federal government does subsidize the production of gasoline. The largest methods are (1) tax credits for oil exploration and development and (2) direct subsidies for oil based exports and foreign production of oil. Other subsidies also exist such as leasing federal land to oil companies for less than the lease of such land is worth and cleaning up oil spills and fining the companies that caused them at less than the price of clean up. From an economic perspective one can also argue that the national oil reserve is effectively a subsidy by artificially increasing demand which shifts the demand curve upward which results in higher prices for all consumers. One can also argue that a significant number of US military campaigns take place only because the US wants to buy oil from certain producers.

Without the last two considerations, estimates are that US federal subsidies amount to at least 22 cents per gallon at the pump. With the last two considerations, estimates end up being that subsidies end up over a dollar per gallon at the pump. Federal gasoline tax is presently less than twenty cents per gallon and many uses of gasoline are exempt from federal taxation (as you yourself mentioned). Hence, the undisputed federal subsidies for oil production is higher than the federal gas tax. When one adds the highest state gasoline taxes (just over thirty cents per gallon in some states) the price at the pump may still be less than federal subsidies alone.

I know there are tax deductions and such for hybrid cars. I think I can understand why the politicians want Hydrogen. By looking at this page: http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp these taxes are used for budgeting everything from road contruction to new projects. The politicians are worried where their sweet money is going to go if this caught on TOO FAST! They would have to get the money from somewhere else and this would mean increasing taxes to compensate the reduction of gas taxes. And Raising taxes does not get one re-elected! By having Hydrogen cars and refueling stations, they can still charge taxes on the refill and keep their current tax structure. This is the new age, you can never rely on only one thing such as this tax to keep everything balanced!

What do mean if?

GPW currently shows Nantucket, MA enjoying $3.15/gal gas.

The Gas Buddy affiliate site shows Bridgeport, CA paying $3.39/gal. The cheapest reported price in CA is $2.47.

I was going to comment that even these rates are comparable to past peaks when inflation is taken into account, but I would've been wrong.

CA gas prices adjusted for inflation

The highest yearly avg. in 2005$ is from 1981 - $2.50. The peak from that year is $3.08.

In other words, The lowest current price in CA is almost above the highest yearly average and the current peak is over 10% higher than the last record peak even after inflation is accounted for.

I will assume that you are living in the US. What's the price for a gallon of gas in the US? $2.29 a gallon according to Gas Price Watch.

Ever wondered how much people all around the world pay for their gas? How about you take a look. And that doesn't even list Canada, which is so close to the U.S., yet we pay about $3.14 (USD) per gallon. Wanna try moving to Europe where the gallon costs on average more than 4 bucks, and in many cases more than 5 bucks?

Quit your whining, you are getting your gas at a very low price.

>Their Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten

Then you have to forget the price really quickly, because if I were to drive a Caddy (or a BMW) I'd be reminded about their cost weekly at the gas pump. Weekly? With an MPG of 16, more like almost daily.

Hmmm. This and this or that and that. This or that. What do I afford? What does one do?

Personally, I'm into having money to spend and just adding in a seat cover. Also, I like a good steak dinner better than wild acceleration.

Either way, whether you own a BMW or a Lada Samara, you will get from home to work within seconds of each other.

It all depends on what you place more value on: Looking good, or enjoying life.

OK then.. lets play the numbers game..

According to the Vehicle Data the Batteries hold a 55KWh charge..
The vehicle can maintain 100kph (62mph) for 300km (187miles) before needing a re-charge..

The Average Cost of a KWh in the us is $0.0693 so it'll cost $3.81 US pr charge. A high efficency charger may hit 96% so we'll tack on an extra 4% bringing us to $3.96 US.

The Average cost of Gas in the US is Currently $1.44 a gal.. so our $3.96 can buy 2.715 gallons of Gas.. or a rough equivlant of 68mpg for the electric car.. Not bad considering it'll haul 8 people

So say you drive this thing 12,000 miles a year at peak efficency. Each one will consume 3.5 megawats of power annually.

We have quite a few power plants. We have power plants that are LYING DORMANT because the cost of natural gas PIPED IN FROM TEXAS is so high that using it to fuel said plants is too expensive for the energy produces, again because they are charging 40x-100x the prices the SAME COMPANIES (Enron, for example) charge other states.

A power plant for every california family wouldn't help if there's still a stranglehold on the fuel.

Read a book, or a newspaper, before spouting off such childish economic mantras, will you?

While we're at it, isn't it interesting that gas prices in San Juan Capistrano (California) are the highest in the country, at $2.35 a gallon, while the lowest in teh country is, any guesses? Yep, San Antonio, Texas, at $1.27. That's an 85% markup over Texas retail prices, and natural gas is far, far worse.

California generates 75% of the power it uses in-state. This is far more than most of the larger states.

Kevin Fox
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