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pro tip for arguments and logic, when someone states that a $35k tesla does not exist you can not refute that, especially when such a car was promised.

" one of the best-selling cars, period in the US" by what metric? and citation please, because that seems like a huge claim and is overly generalized. I would like to see you prove that the model 3 is a better selling vehicle than the accord, altima, camry or civic all which have more sales year after year than the model 3 does.
for reference:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...

When you make such outlandish claims, it then ruins any and every argument that you put forth afterwards. because if you were willing to make things up about such a simple claim then how could the rest of your argument be true?

For example:"But almost nobody buys a car with zero options." comes off as a simple personal anecdote and i seriously doubt that you know everyone to make that claim. on top of that, i just went looking for sales numbers that differentiate by trim level and i cant find anyone so you have no basis for that claim.

finally because i dont even want to touch the ad-homenim at the end, please explain how increased production decreases depreciation because that defies any logic at all. If we look at supply and demand logic, increased production means more supply and less demand from the used market because people who want to buy new are going to buy new and dont have to buy used cars. less demand on the used market means increased depreciation.

See i really like tesla, i like that they are driving the rest of the market to push out electrics (audi's offering looks impressive!) but you are not helping the situation when you refuse to use logic or back-up your outlandish claims. You also do not seem to understand the concept of "do not feed the trolls" and all you are doing is allowing speculations to continus because you cannot use logic to refute claims. When someone says that there is no $35k model 3 they are talking the truth and there is nothing you can do about it! on top of that Elon is a big boy and neither he nor Tesla need you to come to their defense as he knows that the only defense he needs is success. Even if he fails, he still wins as he has helped push the rest of the manufacturers into electrics in a big way. so please chill out and take a deep breath. refusing to use logic or facts in a discussion is pointless.

pro tip for arguments and logic, when someone states that a $35k tesla does not exist you can not refute that, especially when such a car was promised.

" one of the best-selling cars, period in the US" by what metric? and citation please, because that seems like a huge claim and is overly generalized. I would like to see you prove that the model 3 is a better selling vehicle than the accord, altima, camry or civic all which have more sales year after year than the model 3 does.
for reference:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...

When you make such outlandish claims, it then ruins any and every argument that you put forth afterwards. because if you were willing to make things up about such a simple claim then how could the rest of your argument be true?

For example:"But almost nobody buys a car with zero options." comes off as a simple personal anecdote and i seriously doubt that you know everyone to make that claim. on top of that, i just went looking for sales numbers that differentiate by trim level and i cant find anyone so you have no basis for that claim.

finally because i dont even want to touch the ad-homenim at the end, please explain how increased production decreases depreciation because that defies any logic at all. If we look at supply and demand logic, increased production means more supply and less demand from the used market because people who want to buy new are going to buy new and dont have to buy used cars. less demand on the used market means increased depreciation.

See i really like tesla, i like that they are driving the rest of the market to push out electrics (audi's offering looks impressive!) but you are not helping the situation when you refuse to use logic or back-up your outlandish claims. You also do not seem to understand the concept of "do not feed the trolls" and all you are doing is allowing speculations to continus because you cannot use logic to refute claims. When someone says that there is no $35k model 3 they are talking the truth and there is nothing you can do about it! on top of that Elon is a big boy and neither he nor Tesla need you to come to their defense as he knows that the only defense he needs is success. Even if he fails, he still wins as he has helped push the rest of the manufacturers into electrics in a big way. so please chill out and take a deep breath. refusing to use logic or facts in a discussion is pointless.

pro tip for arguments and logic, when someone states that a $35k tesla does not exist you can not refute that, especially when such a car was promised.

" one of the best-selling cars, period in the US" by what metric? and citation please, because that seems like a huge claim and is overly generalized. I would like to see you prove that the model 3 is a better selling vehicle than the accord, altima, camry or civic all which have more sales year after year than the model 3 does.
for reference:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...

When you make such outlandish claims, it then ruins any and every argument that you put forth afterwards. because if you were willing to make things up about such a simple claim then how could the rest of your argument be true?

For example:"But almost nobody buys a car with zero options." comes off as a simple personal anecdote and i seriously doubt that you know everyone to make that claim. on top of that, i just went looking for sales numbers that differentiate by trim level and i cant find anyone so you have no basis for that claim.

finally because i dont even want to touch the ad-homenim at the end, please explain how increased production decreases depreciation because that defies any logic at all. If we look at supply and demand logic, increased production means more supply and less demand from the used market because people who want to buy new are going to buy new and dont have to buy used cars. less demand on the used market means increased depreciation.

See i really like tesla, i like that they are driving the rest of the market to push out electrics (audi's offering looks impressive!) but you are not helping the situation when you refuse to use logic or back-up your outlandish claims. You also do not seem to understand the concept of "do not feed the trolls" and all you are doing is allowing speculations to continus because you cannot use logic to refute claims. When someone says that there is no $35k model 3 they are talking the truth and there is nothing you can do about it! on top of that Elon is a big boy and neither he nor Tesla need you to come to their defense as he knows that the only defense he needs is success. Even if he fails, he still wins as he has helped push the rest of the manufacturers into electrics in a big way. so please chill out and take a deep breath. refusing to use logic or facts in a discussion is pointless.

pro tip for arguments and logic, when someone states that a $35k tesla does not exist you can not refute that, especially when such a car was promised.

" one of the best-selling cars, period in the US" by what metric? and citation please, because that seems like a huge claim and is overly generalized. I would like to see you prove that the model 3 is a better selling vehicle than the accord, altima, camry or civic all which have more sales year after year than the model 3 does.
for reference:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...

When you make such outlandish claims, it then ruins any and every argument that you put forth afterwards. because if you were willing to make things up about such a simple claim then how could the rest of your argument be true?

For example:"But almost nobody buys a car with zero options." comes off as a simple personal anecdote and i seriously doubt that you know everyone to make that claim. on top of that, i just went looking for sales numbers that differentiate by trim level and i cant find anyone so you have no basis for that claim.

finally because i dont even want to touch the ad-homenim at the end, please explain how increased production decreases depreciation because that defies any logic at all. If we look at supply and demand logic, increased production means more supply and less demand from the used market because people who want to buy new are going to buy new and dont have to buy used cars. less demand on the used market means increased depreciation.

See i really like tesla, i like that they are driving the rest of the market to push out electrics (audi's offering looks impressive!) but you are not helping the situation when you refuse to use logic or back-up your outlandish claims. You also do not seem to understand the concept of "do not feed the trolls" and all you are doing is allowing speculations to continus because you cannot use logic to refute claims. When someone says that there is no $35k model 3 they are talking the truth and there is nothing you can do about it! on top of that Elon is a big boy and neither he nor Tesla need you to come to their defense as he knows that the only defense he needs is success. Even if he fails, he still wins as he has helped push the rest of the manufacturers into electrics in a big way. so please chill out and take a deep breath. refusing to use logic or facts in a discussion is pointless.

pro tip for arguments and logic, when someone states that a $35k tesla does not exist you can not refute that, especially when such a car was promised.

" one of the best-selling cars, period in the US" by what metric? and citation please, because that seems like a huge claim and is overly generalized. I would like to see you prove that the model 3 is a better selling vehicle than the accord, altima, camry or civic all which have more sales year after year than the model 3 does.
for reference:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...

When you make such outlandish claims, it then ruins any and every argument that you put forth afterwards. because if you were willing to make things up about such a simple claim then how could the rest of your argument be true?

For example:"But almost nobody buys a car with zero options." comes off as a simple personal anecdote and i seriously doubt that you know everyone to make that claim. on top of that, i just went looking for sales numbers that differentiate by trim level and i cant find anyone so you have no basis for that claim.

finally because i dont even want to touch the ad-homenim at the end, please explain how increased production decreases depreciation because that defies any logic at all. If we look at supply and demand logic, increased production means more supply and less demand from the used market because people who want to buy new are going to buy new and dont have to buy used cars. less demand on the used market means increased depreciation.

See i really like tesla, i like that they are driving the rest of the market to push out electrics (audi's offering looks impressive!) but you are not helping the situation when you refuse to use logic or back-up your outlandish claims. You also do not seem to understand the concept of "do not feed the trolls" and all you are doing is allowing speculations to continus because you cannot use logic to refute claims. When someone says that there is no $35k model 3 they are talking the truth and there is nothing you can do about it! on top of that Elon is a big boy and neither he nor Tesla need you to come to their defense as he knows that the only defense he needs is success. Even if he fails, he still wins as he has helped push the rest of the manufacturers into electrics in a big way. so please chill out and take a deep breath. refusing to use logic or facts in a discussion is pointless.

Yes, Camrys, Accords, and Civics outsell the Model 3 in sales. But that's just cars - what the US buys now is trucks and SUVs, and for that, it's led by Ford who sells one F series pickup every 35 seconds. Consumers in the US have been moving away from cars for a long time, and the fact is that even Toyota and Honda sell more SUVs and trucks in the US than cars. Of the top 12 vehicles sold (of which Tesla does not break the ranks of), three are for cars - the other 9 (including the top 6) are trucks and SUVs. But if you want to crow about the "4th best selling car in the US", by all means - go for it!

As far as success story, Q3 Tesla claims to have made ~$330MM in profit (even though their cash flow position increased by $700MM - were bills not paid?). Ford did about $1B in profit for Q3, and GM is expected to do around $1.8B in profit, for the quarter - without any curious increase in cash position that doesn't correlate with earned profit (how do you make $330MM in profit but your cash position increased by over double that amount, unless you're not paying out everything you're supposed to?)

Of course, that is only if you look at the buying price. Once you add in the full costs of ownership, then this really becomes a great deal more affordable and is open to most of America.
A luxury Model 3 is within $1000 / year of what a Camry costs. TM3 is much more luxury and a great deal faster than even top Camry.
In the states, we see that Camry sales have been dropping for the last 3 years. Again, in the states, we see that Accord sales have also dropped this year.

Of course, that is only if you look at the buying price. Once you add in the full costs of ownership, then this really becomes a great deal more affordable and is open to most of America.
A luxury Model 3 is within $1000 / year of what a Camry costs. TM3 is much more luxury and a great deal faster than even top Camry.
In the states, we see that Camry sales have been dropping for the last 3 years. Again, in the states, we see that Accord sales have also dropped this year.

It seems that in the US at least, the minivan is quite nearly dead.

Not even remotely. 532,357 minivans were sold in the US in 2013.

How many companies other than Chrysler are still making them for the US market at all?

Toyota, Honda, Kia, Mazda, Toyota, Nissan and VW all make and sell minivans. Chrysler, Toyota and Honda own about 90% of the market together between their 4 offerings.

Minivans are not dead. Pretty much every model still tops 100,000+ sales per year. (Mazda 5 being an exception, though it is really a subcompact with sliding doors, not really a minivan) 2013 model year sales ranked by top sellers:

#31 - Honda Odyssey
#34 - Dodge Grand Caravan
#37 - Chrysler Town & Country
#38 - Toyota Siennav #45 - Kia Sorento

Link

My reality is that they only sell $45,000 suvs or much cheaper minivans that can fit my whole family... So for me, they are here to stay. My minivan seats 8, a suburban seats 8. Most suvs seat 5...

User "Todd Knarr" posted numbers above. Apparently you're no only too lazy to do your own research, you're also too biased to believe numbers given to you...

To expand on those numbers (there's a bit of a fudge factor because the timelines don't line up. Deal with it):
Tesla Model S cars in the USA and Canada: about 17200, as of Sep 2013 (source: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...)
Tesla Model S fires in the USA and Canada: 4, ever (new enough model that we'll say "per year" if you want).
Tesla Model S fires per year (percentage): about 0.023%

Personal cars in the USA in 2007: about 254,400,000 (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P... citing http://www.bts.gov/publication...)
Vehicle fires in the USA in 2007: about 258,000 (sources: http://www.chandlerlawgroup.co..., http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downl...)
Total car fires per year (percentage): about 0.101%

Ratio of Tesla Model S fires per Model S to all car fires per total cars: about 4.4 to 1

Have yourself a nice big helping of crow, you intellectually dishonest piece of shit.

Almost 50,000 sold just last year, of just suburbans. Granted, that's a smallish percentage of the total number of cars, but that's just one model, from one manufacturer. I think you underestimate how many people just have to keep up with the Joneses. Source: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/chevrolet-suburban-sales-figures.html

So, because there's another mp3 player that is cheaper, the iPod is overpriced?

that's faulty logic, we need a car analogy.

Hyundai Accent is $10,000, does that mean the Civic, Camry and Cruze are all overpriced? They're all cars and they all come with 4-cylinder engines, what's the difference, right? Yet the Camry is the best selling car in America despite costing almost double what the Accent does.