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New Toyota Helps You Yell At the Kids
An anonymous reader writes If you're tired of yelling at the kids without the help of technology, Toyota has a van for you. From the article: "The latest version of the company's Sienna minivan has a feature called 'Driver Easy Speak.' It uses a built-in microphone to amplify a parent's voice through speakers in the back seats. Toyota says it added Easy Speak 'so parents don't have to shout to passengers in the back.' But chances are many parents will yell into the microphone anyway. And the feature only works one way, so the kids can't talk back. At least not with amplified voices. The feature is an option on the 2015 Sienna, which is being refreshed with a totally new interior. It also has an optional 'pull-down conversation mirror' that lets drivers check on kids without turning around."
It seems that in the US at least, the minivan is quite nearly dead. How many companies other than Chrysler are still making them for the US market at all? Not many.
As for the "pull down mirror", that isn't even remotely new technology. Other vehicles have had those for a decade or more. But of course because America - and the American media especially - love Toyota with a great passion, we regard it as a technological marvel.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Now, if only there was a convenient place to store my wiffle ball bat too. At least they already have a "mean look" mirror (http://blogs.cars.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e2017d41511f46970c-800wi).
can they make something for the home, too? maybe classroom?
> ...'pull-down conversation mirror' that lets drivers check on kids without turning around."
Back in the 70's, those mysterious "eyes in the back of the head" that'd always catch you when you were about to yank your sister's pigtails.
! Not so that the kids can yell at me, but so that I can actually HEAR them over the wind blowing through the windows and the cars outside. I know how to project my voice, so the kids hear me fine, but I can't hear them at all. And I'm just in a car.
But just no, to the conversation mirror - most parents already don't keep their eyes on the road, we don't need to give them another excuse.
This ranks right up there with the dedicated chicken nuggets button on some ovens.
They should implement voice-changing methods. Then you could make your voice super low and booming and be like "THIS IS GOD. STOP FIGHTING."
I agree, it would be more useful the other way around. Turn the van into a "Driver Speak Easy". That would really be helpful to parents.
The minivan suffers a stigma in America today.... It's viewed as a vehicle for moms who need to shuttle the kids and their things around. That hurts sales because even many of the moms who squarely fit into that category don't want to feel like they're defined by that part of their life. They don't want to drive a vehicle around that tells everyone that's what their purpose is on the planet -- especially when so many families are dual-income and they'd like to look more "professional".
It seems it's unavoidable though? As soon as enough people buy a functional alternative to avoid the stigma, they begin putting the same stigma on the alternative choice. Not that long ago, the station wagon held this distinction, and yet now -- driving a station wagon is viewed as trendy in a hipster way!
Honestly though, I think the minivan could enjoy a resurgence in popularity if it was approached from a slightly different angle. Make it *really* easy for all of the seats to fold flat (like "push a button and they all retract into the floor" easy), and market it to the homeowners who currently shop for light trucks! I know I've owned a couple of pickups because they were so darn functional and useful for things like hauling away yard waste or picking up a furniture or appliance purchase, or just helping a buddy move. But their big downside is the lack of any protection from the weather for the cargo, while driving. For 99% of the things I ever hauled around in my truck, I could have used a minivan just as well, if it didn't have seats in the way.
Hmm, adding technology that allows the driver to focus their attention on what is going on in the back seat rather than the road? What could go wrong?
They need a "Sit Down and Shut-Up" package - 5 point restraints and ball-gags for the kids in the back seat.
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
... to separate the rear into two passenger compartments that are isolated from each other. This would remove most of the reasons for chewing out the passengers there.
So this is 'news that matters' now? It looks more like astro-turfing for Toyota?
In Japan, Toyota sells a hybrid minivan (the Estima) that uses the Prius drivetrain and is based off the (discontinued in the states) Previa styling:
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/11/07/toyota-estima-hybrid-minivan/
Most of these vans get less than 20-25 MPG, so an offering that gets 40 MPG city (or better) would surely be more compelling than a gimmick megaphone. Hey Toyota, about get your act together and bring your superior automotive technology to the USA instead of this kind of stuff.
My Aunt had a car back in the '50s that had a speed alert buzzer - she'd set it and teld the kids the car could tell when someone was misbehaving - whenever the kids in the back seat started in on each other she'd speed up so it went off. Spooky car that one...
We worked on something just like this years ago (over 10 years ago) at an engineering internship I had at an automotive supplier in Michigan. We had a whole mock-up for an auto show. We put directional microphones in a rear-view mirror and sent the signal through an amplifier to the car speakers. The biggest problem we had to overcome was feedback. It is really hard to amplify someones voice in such a small, enclosed space without horrendous feedback, and feedback at all kinds of audio frequencies. I remember we bought this off-the-shelf commercial feedback killer and mounted it under the dash just for the demo and it even had a hard time killing all the feedback.
While there were 14 manufacturers of minivans 15-20 years ago, there are only five today: Chrysler/Dodge, Honda, Toyota, Kia (with a newly reintroduced Sedona), and Nissan. Still, that's five manufacturers all offering competitive products.
As a father of four minions, I've yet to find an SUV that equals the minivan in its ability to haul six or seven people AND THEIR GEAR in good comfort, all while achieving 25+ mpg. My 2011 Town and Country actually got 27.5 mpg on one tank of gas on a recent 2800 mile trip. My brother's SUV struggles to achieve 18.
Having rented several SUVs on trips, they can seat everybody, but squeezing in the bags is a real challenge.
I sure hope the minivan doesn't disappear. Truly, it is without equal for families up to about 7 people.
Optional: electrical shocks.
Government made them difficult and expensive to buy compared to SUV's, which were classified as trucks (hence a lower gas mileage standard).
"Stigma" had nothing to do with it.
A Darth Vader voice would be more fun for misbehaving kids:
"I find your lack of behaviour disturbing"
"I am your father"
"That was before you misbehaved, now I am altering the deal...pray I do not alter it any further."
"I hope so for your sake, your mother is not as forgiving as I am”
I'd say the problem with the minivan is it typically gets just as poor, if not worse gas mileage than an SUV. They're also priced as high as an SUV (excepting the soon to go away Caravan). The towing capacity of minivans (rather than full size vans) is worse than an SUV, as is handling on rough roads.
So, unless you have more than 4 people in the vehicle at a time, why bother with a minivan? The only market for them are families with 3 or more children who want to get slightly better gas mileage than you'd see in the size of SUV that offers a 3rd row seat (the 3rd row seat is also more difficult to get infants/toddlers in and out of).
Your argument about what they say about the driver also holds as another reason.
I'm pretty sure birth control exists.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
If you don't mind looking ridiculous, the helicopter market has had this for ages (since there's nothing quite like sitting under a propeller going fast enough to keep you in the air when it comes to noise...) Nice, sturdy, over-the-ear headphones with substantial protection from outside noise, along with a mic which gets piped to everyone else's headphones so they can hear you as though you were speaking in a more normal environment(the ability to mute individual users would, of course, be vital in broad application).
I agree, it would be more useful the other way around. Turn the van into a "Driver Speak Easy". That would really be helpful to parents.
...as long as that's not an option for all the Siennas that are used as Taxis.
It seems that in the US at least, the minivan is quite nearly dead.
Not even remotely. 532,357 minivans were sold in the US in 2013.
How many companies other than Chrysler are still making them for the US market at all?
Toyota, Honda, Kia, Mazda, Toyota, Nissan and VW all make and sell minivans. Chrysler, Toyota and Honda own about 90% of the market together between their 4 offerings.
each of them over ten years old.
I'm not a Mini-van fan, but those things, even at 10+ years are nice on the inside and you can't kill them. They just keep going. Also, the years they were built they were more American than the Mustang of the same year model, actually passing it up in parts manufactured in the U.S./ Canada. I don't know if the whole "Sienna is more American than the Mustang" thing is still true or not, but a little over ten years ago it was.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Slashdotters don't have wives let alone kids, you insensitive clod.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Speaking as someone who is a regular passenger in a Toyota Sienna (and an occasional passenger in other makes/models of minivan) for work carpools and extended family trips, I welcome this feature. The modern minivan is hardly designed with acoustics in mind and it is very hard to have a conversation between the front row and the second row.
Yes kids, learn early that authority comes out of a loudspeaker, that's a useful trait for the future you are headed to. Next stop, Dystopia City.
Mind the frickin' laser...
I don't agree with birth control
Could you be more specific? Which opinions of which birth control methods do you refute?
Honestly though, I think the minivan could enjoy a resurgence in popularity if it was approached from a slightly different angle.
Perhaps. Minivans are undeniably practical for many uses but they are hard to make sexy. Of course it doesn't help that they have ugly styling, bad fuel economy and handle like a river barge for the most part.
Make it *really* easy for all of the seats to fold flat (like "push a button and they all retract into the floor" easy), and market it to the homeowners who currently shop for light trucks!
The problem is how to do that economically. There are all sorts of cool things you can do if money is no object. I think you'd have more luck with them if you started with solving the styling and fuel economy problems, then work your way to fixing the handling and then get into nifty features like what you describe. A minivan would seem to be the ideal place for a hybrid powertrain and I'm surprised there are basically no 4WD/AWD options out there.
I know I've owned a couple of pickups because they were so darn functional and useful for things like hauling away yard waste or picking up a furniture or appliance purchase, or just helping a buddy move. But their big downside is the lack of any protection from the weather for the cargo, while driving
That is the reason I have a folding tonneau cover on mine. Solves that problem for the majority of cases and even improves gas mileage slightly.
Honestly though, I think the minivan could enjoy a resurgence in popularity if it was approached from a slightly different angle. Make it *really* easy for all of the seats to fold flat (like "push a button and they all retract into the floor" easy)
You mean, like an MPV?
... in the art of modern parenting. Finally, the American standard of social discourse, "I'm right because I'm yelling louder", can be brought to the homey confines of the minivan and ingrained on the little darlings early on.
would certaily come in useful for those singing-in-the-car-[LOUDLY]-to-ones-self moments... maybe an aftermarket reverb unit to make it even more obnoxious, rewired to patch through the car's entire audio system... just because
People in cars face forward, in the front I can hear the kids just fine, no problem at all. It really is quite difficult to hear forward facing people in the front from the back. Of course there is a further difference between hearing and listening, but this doesn't sound like the most crazy thing I have ever heard of.
I've rented minivans on business trips (particularly for outdoor field tests of equipment my employer develops). They work very well for our use: surprisingly large cargo capacity in a weather proof bay, flexible reconfiguration to carry either people or equipment between test sites, low floors and true fold-flat seats (compared to many of the SUVs we've rented) making loading easy, car-like handling to suit drivers without large vehicle experience; and wide availability at car rental companies both large and small.
Now, we are talking about renting for a specific purpose for only the duration of that purpose, which is a completely different economic calculation than buying a car for daily use.Nonetheless, I've been convinced that when I do have kids (young children seem to require a frighteningly large amount of support equipment) a minivan will be the way to go. (Certainly compared to an SUV, which would offer similar features in a less convenient shape, or a small car, which lacks cargo.) Of course, this all depends on my finances at that point in time.... I'm not so well off that I can purchase vehicles arbitrarily.
The Odyssey (best selling single model of minivan) has a higher safety rating than almost all SUVs. It gets better gas mileage (28mpg) than almost all SUVs, and absolutely all vehicles with similar passenger capacity (7 or 8 passengers)... Not to mention resale value and reliability rating.
The Minivan is the practical and logical choice... Not to mention, with seats down/out, the cargo capacity is laughably better than an Explorer or other "large" suvs. I can (and have) move a washer and dryer in mine... which is my litmus test for "cargo capacity". (Explorer and Tahoe, which are "large" suvs, cannot fit a washer/dryer, even with all seats folded).
It is fine to hate Minivans, but to pretend they are somehow less practical than an SUV is kind of laughable.
I remain unconvinced! I am also unconvinced being pregnant and/or giving birth has any side effects on one's body!
Childbirth is far more dangerous than the risk from any of those things.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
You do realize that those risks are miniscule compared to the health complications from pregnancy and birth, right? There are also multiple non-hormonal methods to birth control as well.
It's all well and good to not be into BC, but don't pretend its primarily for health reasons.
While there were 14 manufacturers of minivans 15-20 years ago, there are only five today
7 actually (Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Kia, Nissan, Mazda, VW) though I think VW might contract the actual manufacturing to Chrysler.
My 2011 Town and Country actually got 27.5 mpg on one tank of gas on a recent 2800 mile trip. My brother's SUV struggles to achieve 18.
A Jeep Grand Cherokee with the diesel option will get around 30mpg on the highway and seat up to 7. The current Dodge Grand Caravan gets 17 city, 25 highway which is roughly the same as a full sized pickup truck with a boosted V6 engine. There really is no excuse for minivans to not be able to get mpg over 30mpg appropriately configured.
I sure hope the minivan doesn't disappear. Truly, it is without equal for families up to about 7 people.
It won't. It might not be sexy but as you point out there is nothing else out there with the capabilities of one. Sometimes practicality just rules the day.
I think the main problem with minivans is that the car companies have focused too much attention on SUVs and not progressed the category as much as they could have. Minivan gas mileage is better than big SUVs but what isn't? And it's not as good as it could be. I can get a big pickup with a 400HP engine that isn't much worse on gas mileage than your typical minivan. No way that should be possible. I have to believe there probably is a market for a hybrid powertrain minivan. Minivan handling is pathetic even by truck standards for the most part (except for Mazda's offering). They generally lack options like 4WD. They are used for hauling kids and stuff and yet they have cloth interiors that cannot be easily cleaned. I have a Nissan Xterra and I can literally hose out the interior of that car which I occasionally need to after toting my dogs or mountain bike around. I haven't been in a minivan used by kids that couldn't use a good hosing down. Minivan styling is horrendous. Nobody buys one because they think it looks nice.
... before I was let go.
Amplified parenting is trumped by ear buds.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
>It gets better gas mileage (28mpg) than almost all SUVs
That isn't very good compared to an SUV (Is that really the best that a minivan can get? I thought there would be at least one outlier that could best an SUV):
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass/Small_SUV_4WD2014.shtml
> and absolutely all vehicles with similar passenger capacity (7 or 8 passengers)...
Well, there's the rub.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate#United_States
The average family doesn't need to seat more than 4.
>Not to mention resale value and reliability rating.
They sell at far below SUV values.
http://www.vmrcanada.com/value_menus/canprices/08hoodey.html
http://www.vmrcanada.com/value_menus/canprices/08jegree.html
>The Minivan is the practical and logical choice...
If you ignore fuel economy and the number of passengers in the average North American family.
>Not to mention, with seats down/out, the cargo capacity is laughably better than an Explorer or other "large" suvs.
Few families seem to care. Also, small SUVs can fit the largest thing the average family is likely to put in them (a dishwasher, in my case). Just about anything else gets delivered nowadays.
>(Explorer and Tahoe, which are "large" suvs, cannot fit a washer/dryer, even with all seats folded)
Really? The Jeep Grand Cherokee, which is a "medium" SUV, fits that, because I moved one. You have found a very poorly designed SUV, sir, considering it's bigger than mine! Or a very large washer/dryer.
>It is fine to hate Minivans, but to pretend they are somehow less practical than an SUV is kind of laughable.
It's laughable that you believe the average family needs seating for 7, or that the average family spends most of their time carting about major appliances. One can rent a van for $20 if their SUV can't hold a washer/dryer. Considering they'll need to do so perhaps twice over the life of the vehicle, the mpg savings alone pay the difference.
Of course, personally, I am planning to get a car as my other vehicle, because the SUV, like a minivan, is a gas hog.
And the hum of their Rascal scooters.
I'm sure I saw at least three dozen other commercials last night, anyone want to post an article about those?
The hardest part is multiple kids in car seats, even one rear facing car seat can be difficult to get into many sedans.
Cheap storage VM.
ah, my subaru 4wd
I was grilling some chicken in my back yard yesterday evening and could not believe the dysfunctionality of my neighbors two doors down. The were not arguing or fighting, but every verbal exchange was really loud and aggressive. Two fat fuck parents and their moron children having an average summer evening and oblivious to the fact that they could be heard a block away. This is also the brain donor who fires up his leaf blower at 9.00am on a Sunday. Just pure brain dead american filth.
My wife's 2014 Highlander has both of these features. Also built-in pull down sunsceeens for the passengers.
>It gets better gas mileage (28mpg) than almost all SUVs
That isn't very good compared to an SUV (Is that really the best that a minivan can get? I thought there would be at least one outlier that could best an SUV):
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass/Small_SUV_4WD2014.shtml
Those aren't SUVs. They're passenger cars with lift kits installed.
You can't spell "oneiromancy" without "roman".
It's laughable that you believe the average family needs seating for 7, or that the average family spends most of their time carting about major appliances. One can rent a van for $20 if their SUV can't hold a washer/dryer. Considering they'll need to do so perhaps twice over the life of the vehicle, the mpg savings alone pay the difference.
There's the rub - there is no "average" driver. We all look for a vehicle which meets our particular needs / wants. The average family in the US may have 2 or 3 children, but several have five (my own parents had seven). Then consider the young family stage where you must tote around car seat, stroller, play-pen, toys, diapers, change of clothes, etc. Or the family who goes on extended road trips or camping outings. There always will be outliers.
Among the advantages of owning a minivan is that it becomes easy to carry your own children, plus a few of their friends. You get to know those friends, and listen to your kids' conversations with them. Often, the kids sort of forget you are there and converse "normally". You gain a window into their lives at school you otherwise would never have enjoyed.
Sneaky trick: if you turn on the radio with the fader balanced toward the rear seats, the kids will speak louder without even realizing it.
As much as I hate parenting threads on slashdot, because you generally crap on the parents for being concerned about their kids, taking an active interest, or trying to solve a problem . . . this is just stupid.
If you don't know the kids in your vehicle well enough to know what's going on without turning around AND/OR you can't raise your voice in a non-abusive, yet thoroughly effective way, then technology isn't going to help you.
Ain't letting nobody wave no knife around my manly bits. They be too manly for that!
Ah, memories of my childhood. Things like my father flying down the freeway at 60 turning around in his seat and screaming "You look at me when I'm talking to you boy!" while everyone else screamed about oncoming traffic.
At the time I learned to drive, I considered my greatest achievement was being able to hold a conversation without looking at the person I'm speaking with.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
TO be honest, I like the idea (and I'm a grown up man) of a minivan. I see the Sienna, and seems to have aggressive looks. But never as the SUVs.
I'd go for the minivan if they had more aggressive/sporty looks. As you said, it's the stigma it's for moms, and therefore, for some reason they look like cute cars rather than sporty cars. Make them look sporty like the new Siennas, and they will win some market back (unless people actually need AWD).
Why is anyone complaining about this? It's a well-known problem, even in smaller cars but especially in minivans, that the people in the rear seat can't easily hear the people in the front seat, so the people in front typically have to raise their voice. This is simply because they're facing forwards. People in the front have no problem hearing the people in the back. So this new feature certainly makes sense as it amplifies the front seated person's voice but not the people in the back. This will actually prevent people from shouting. The parents don't start by shouting... it's more like:
Child: why do they paint road signs yellow?
Mother: so they stand out better and you can see...
Child: Mommy, why do they paint road signs yellow?
Mother: SO YOU CAN SEE THEM EASIER!
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
So is the microphone going to mute itself in the event of another Sudden Unintended Acceleration, so that the poor kids don't have to hear an amplified version of mommy's screaming as the vehicle is accelerating through an intersection? (Disclaimer: a cousin of mine who is semi-professional race car driver has experienced SUA in a parking lot... I'm not buying Toyota's story about it always being driver error).
It is the mirror that attracted my attention. Someone who cannot keep his attention on the road while he is driving shouldn't be driving, let alone raising kids.
I would have some serious fun with that bad boy. Maybe spook them enough so that they will behave.
"Awww, but I don't get to use the BIG VOICE very much"
Your wife can have adverse side effects from you wearing a condom?
My reality is that they only sell $45,000 suvs or much cheaper minivans that can fit my whole family
You can buy a Ford E-Series van or Ford Transit van that will seat more than any minivan, tow more and is available for as little as $30,000. Only real downside is that the MPG kind of sucks.
In order to avoid the negative reaction that some people have to the word "minivan" theyve all been re-branded as "crossovers" so people can make believe its a SUV
Which is ironic considering that the minivan was invented to avoid the negative reaction that some people had to "station wagon".
The average family doesn't need to seat more than 4.
Sure, if you never cart other people's kids around. I regularly fill my 7-passenger van, despite having only 2 kids. This is especially true when the kids are still required to have car seats, which really cut down a sedan's carrying capacity. Car seats make the middle seat in the back pretty much useless (even on the minivan), and the front seat is a no-no - at least in my state.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
and is based off the (discontinued in the states) Previa styling:
Thank $diety. The Previa was one of the ugliest vehicles this side of a Pontiak Aztek. I've never seen a minivan I thought was remotely pleasant to look at but the Previa was ugly above and beyond the call of duty. I'm kind of astonished nobody has seemingly even tried to make a minivan that is better looking.
Their kind loves to whine constantly, but are hypocrites since they won't give others a voice. They bitch at African Americans constantly, but they refuse to listen to us. That is the way of their kind. Toyota has proven again that they are a hateful and racist company with this type of action. It's the most Republican thing I've seen a car company ever do.
But, a friend that works at MSN Autos says this is more of a intolerant xian religious thing than a Republican thing. I disagree. The xians are usually more in your face and want you to die and go to hell while the Republicans only want to bitch at you.
Make it apart of the white trash package. It could be this, a '3' door decal, and rebel flag rear window mural appliqué.
Lowering kits.
Mall utility vehicles. Would high center in second on any logging road.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
You are absolutely right about the stigma thing. My wife used to swear up and down that she would never get a minivan. She toughed it out with her CR-V as long as she could. When the in-laws (or other visitors) came over, I would dutifully crawl in the back, while everybody else piled in. But once we had our second kid, it became increasingly impossible to safely get the whole family where we were going. Then when the older one entered grade school, there was the need to shuttle friends about, too.
So we've had a Honda Odyssey for over a year now. The mileage isn't bad. The thing handles better than my Accord. It has more luggage room and is more configurable than the Pilot would have been. My only complaint so far is that the windshield is so large that it distorts my field of vision giving me a slight headache on long trips. But my wife says it's just my imagination. She has embraced being a minivan mom. She'll probably be one until the kids are grown.
I liken a minivan to any other tool. Once you get used to using the right tool for the job, you wonder why you ever did it any other way.
Regarding the push-button fold flat seats, that is already an option for the back seat of one brand. Don't remember which, though.
Older kids do too.
Hockey bags/football gear/their own suitcases.
Plus, the minivan is essentially a pickup. In the Odyssey, you can put a 4x8 sheet of plywood down flat. Works great for everything but gravel/bark/loose particles.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
The average family doesn't need to seat more than 4.
Unless you or your kids have friends. Then, yeah, you do need more than 4 seats.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I know at leat three people driving Sienna's ... each of them over ten years old.
I should hope so. Otherwise how do they reach the pedals?!
Kids can equally annoy whoever is driving with this tech - unless it can be deactivated from the driver's seat - but then it would negate the intended function of this feature.
IMHO the driver - child or parent, should be in control of everything.
It's called 'marriage'.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
The Minivan is the practical and logical choice
Agreed, unless you also need to tow stuff and/or go off road. Even if you don't do that stuff very much, renting an SUV or truck for those occasions isn't feasible, because as far as I can tell all rental car companies prohibit towing and off-road use. I do tow stuff regularly (boat, camp trailer, ATV trailer, utility trailer), and need to seat at least six people, which has made an SUV the practical and logical choice.
Now that my kids are moving out I no longer need so much seating, so a pickup truck is becoming the practical and logical choice. I'd like to upgrade to a bigger camp trailer, so one with a powerful diesel engine is looking particularly attractive.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Ain't letting nobody wave no knife around my manly bits. They be too manly for that!
How about a laser? You can do a vasectomy with a laser - how cool is that?
Of course, you could do a vasectomy with a shark. I'm not sure that 'cool' would be the appropriate adjective.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
The planet is overpopulated. While it is OK to have kids that you can raise, it is just as ok (and serves the greater good) to abstain from having children. Cultural institutions that deride people for remaining childless are completely misguided.
I always wanted the glass screen option, once the fighting starts I just raise the screen and enjoy the peace.
Nullius in verba
It uses a built-in microphone to amplify a parent's voice through speakers in the back seats.
Made me think of the "Better Off Ted" episode, "Bioshuffle" (Season 1, Episode 9):
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I have a Sienna. I'm perfectly capable of yelling at my kids loud enough so everyone in the car can hear. Hearing my soft-spoken daughter in the third row is another story entirely. If the radio is on or a window is open, forget it. I'd like this system in two-way mode so she can talk to the driver and front passenger more easily.
I suggest https://www.google.com/search?q=symptothermal+method if you want to have control of when you have kids, but not take drugs to do it.
My wife and I have had good luck with this method. Two kids, both conceived the first month of trying (this method of timing your cycle works just as well in reverse).
Maybe he was transporting one of these.
Actually they are a hatchbacks (aka station wagons) but the marketing people renamed them as SUVs to make them more hip and trendy.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
They don't tow or go off road well...but a majority of pickup and SUV owners don't actually tow anything heavy or take it off road. The poor off-road ability is actually a plus for the average person--lower ride height brings increased stability and convenience at the cost of less ground clearance). The towing is mostly due to the FWD and lower torque engines--get a bit of tongue weight and some pulling force on the back of a FWD car, and , but that's the price you pay for not having to run the transmission all the way to the back wheels (which gets you your fold-flat seats and low ride height).
It is a shame that they are so ugly and uninspiring...in all honesty, they are the "right" car for a significant majority of people.
Bottles.
If I'd had a minivan, I'd also have needed to buy a pickup truck. An SUV fills both roles.
An SUV does NOT fill the role of a pickup truck unless you don't actually need a pickup truck. You need a pickup when you are toting things that you do not want to carry in the interior of a vehicle like loose dirt, stone, certain bulky supplies, trash, etc. Messy stuff. Very bulky stuff. If you can put what you are likely to carry in an SUV then you don' t actually need a pickup. My wife has an SUV which we use for plowing and I have a pickup which we use for transporting bulky stuff. Significant overlap but the use cases are not identical.
An SUV can fill the role of a station wagon or minivan depending on the specific use case and number of people you need to transport. If you get up towards 7 with lots of gear then you need either a minivan or a full sized van. If you are just transporting up to 4/5 people with some gear then an SUV or station wagon can serve adequately.
I kind of laugh when I hear people say they "need" a minivan. Amazing how those of us who predate minivans somehow managed to survive. They're a great tool but hardly a necessity. The car my family had when I was growing up was a sports coupe. We took all the family trips and got all our gear in it too.
Neither quite as well as the ideal vehicle, but well enough that it makes more sense than two vehicles... actually three since we also needed a commuter vehicle.
Why would you "need" a commuter vehicle? The cost of any commuter vehicle is going to hugely outstrip any fuel savings you might possible generate.
Are you saying that wealthy people who do not want to have kids are morally obligated to have them anyway?
I have an Odyssey, too, and it's pretty good for a mini-van. We got it because dogs, not kids, but many of the use cases are similar.
I do miss my Fusion Hybrid that I traded in for it, though. Pretty car, and I liked paying a lot less for gas.
In Japan, Toyota sells a hybrid minivan (the Estima) that uses the Prius drivetrain and is based off the (discontinued in the states) Previa styling:
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/11/07/toyota-estima-hybrid-minivan/
Most of these vans get less than 20-25 MPG, so an offering that gets 40 MPG city (or better) would surely be more compelling than a gimmick megaphone. Hey Toyota, about get your act together and bring your superior automotive technology to the USA instead of this kind of stuff.
I've been asking Toyota for years. That said, I finally caved and got a non-hybrid Sienna, and it gets about 20mpg combined average. I'd kill for that Estima to be sold here even if they did mark up for adding a hybrid drivetrain.
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Well, you see, those you are arguing with are trying to tell you that you should only be carting around your kids and the other parents can cart around their kids. That way we can have 3 35-40 MPG cars on the road and 35-40 MPG always beats 25-28 MPG. (Let's not teach them how to average that MPG over 3 cars though, they won't believe us anyway because Math).
" I do tow stuff regularly (boat, camp trailer, ATV trailer, utility trailer), and need to seat at least six people, which has made an SUV the practical and logical choice." According to many, you are doing it wrong. You need to be downsizing and changing your lifestyle to protect the planet.
Personally, I like your lifestyle. You probably enjoy life and the world instead of sitting around bitching about everyone out their destroying the world.
LOL, well I'm just being practical... how do you hold down a job if you are driving kids all over the place all the time. I team up with other parents. So, for instance, I work near the summer day camp and often pick up and drop off other kids there on my way. Other parents help me out with other dropoffs. This week, a friend is taking my son to camp with her sons, which saves me a stop and probably adds a whole hour or so to my working day.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I'm with you. Just having fun pointing out the insanity of not doing what you are doing. Helping out generally seems to be frowned upon around here.
http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki...
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
did our parents ever manage to raise us using JUST HATCHBACKS?
Some technology is handy. Other technology just promotes being a wanker.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
You've got to be kidding! What kind of sedans are you thinking of that won't fit rear-facing car seats?
I'm currently on an ex-pat assignment and because of this my wife and I each have a car in two different countries. Each of these four cars has two rear-facing car seats and they all fit without a problem. The cars are all 2013 models: Volvo S60, Range Rover Evoque, Ford Focus and Ford S-max.
Do you do said laughter right after highlighting the different capabilities of trucks and SUV's, as you just did above? You weren't hauling 7 people plus gear in that sports coupe, at least not safely.
Of course we didn't put 7 people in a coupe. (5 sometimes though) If we needed to haul more stuff we *gasp* took a second vehicle.
An SUV plus a utility trailer does fill the role of a pickup truck.
It's not the same thing. By your logic a sedan + a utility trailer = a pickup or an electric vehicle + a towed generator = a hybrid. It's a fine solution but its not a perfect substitute. There are plenty of times when a trailer is WAY more trouble than it is worth. I can (and have) stopped by the landscaping yard on my way home when my wife called needing some dirt or stone for the garden. Just had them dump it in the bed of my pickup with a front end loader. No trailer or extra planning necessary since I don't haul my trailer everywhere I go. I also cannot tow a trailer large enough to justify a fifth wheel with any SUV. I also occasionally take my pickup places with stuff in the bed where I wouldn't dream of towing a trailer. Nothing wrong with buying an SUV + a trailer but if you do that then you are confirming what I said which is that you don't actually need a pickup if an SUV can do the jobs you need done. Most people who buy pickups don't actually need one.
The cost of a minivan plus a pickup plus the fuel to commute in the pickup is greater than the cost of an SUV plus a small sedan plus the fuel to commute in the sedan.
The comparison is for 3 cars versus 2 cars per the original post. There is NO way that you will recoup the cost of a third vehicle in fuel. Even if it is a $2000 beater you'll spend more on maintenance than you will recoup in fuel for a third vehicle. Plus they have pickups now that get good fuel economy. There is the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel and next year there will be some 4 cylinder diesel options in light pickups. It's not hard to find a gas powered pickup that gets 20-25mpg combined these days. Even with a Prius you aren't going to recoup *that* much money in gas.
You often have to pull your seat forward and sit the back ramrod straight to get a rear facing car seat in. My experience is with a 2006 hyundai elantra, so I can't speak to other vehicles, glad you can afford something newer. This was several years ago. We also chose carseats that we could afford and were rated highly for safety. They were very wide. There was absolutely no way to get a person, even a child, in between the car seats in a 3 rear seat sedan. That's when we decided we needed a minivan.
Cheap storage VM.
.Nonetheless, I've been convinced that when I do have kids (young children seem to require a frighteningly large amount of support equipment) a minivan will be the way to go.
Don't buy into the hype. My kid's seven, and we're still doing fine in a 2002 four-door Echo. (They call 'em Yaris these days). And that's counting a week long camping trip this year. Far more important than Massive Cargo Space is simply a back door to get the kid in-and-out of the seat. But what we save in fuel more than pays for the odd time we need to rent a larger vehicle.
Babies need a stroller and a diaper bag - bag goes next to kid, stroller goes in the trunk. (And after about a week you'll get one of those little umbrella strollers for the car because you don't actually need a Baby Suburban Stroller anyway.) Once they're toddler age you're down to just the bag for snacks and such, and that's about the same size as those big purses you see everywhere.
FYI the seats we are using are Cybex Sirona which have a swivel function that helps getting the kids in and out of the seats.
From what I can tell these seats have received good ratings (but as far as I can tell are not available in the US?).
But you are absolutely right: there's no way to reach the 3rd seat in the backrow (between the two car seats).
A driver who even thinks about turning around to check on what the passengers are up to should lose their driving license until they've successfully re-passed their driving test.
That's why you strap them in. That's what you have other adults in the vehicle for. That's why you train the kids from before potty-training to not touch their seat belts on pain of straight back home and no fun for the rest of the day. That's why you train the kids over the same time scale to not distract the driver.
This is a technology which should not exist.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"