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Both Proteus and Fire support all the major IM platforms on OSX. They also let you group contacts together, so if you have a friend with accounts on ICQ, MSN and AOL they appear as one person, something you have to pay for on Trillian. Personally I'm using the beta for Proteus 4.0.

I've been using 1600x1200 on my desktop since... a really suave Tektronix X terminal I had as a co-op at Cisco in like '95. I've weaseled a way to have it at every job, and I have my very own 21" FD Trinitron at home. When you're programming or doing systems administration, having a huge landscape is a plus.

So when I finally let myself buy a 12" PowerBook a couple of months ago... I started out with the Sony hooked up and an external keyboard and mouse when I was at my desk. I went through the usual novelty period of using both displays, but within a few weeks I noticed that my monitor was sitting there just showing off its wallpaper 99% of the time, and I was doing all my work on the LCD. I turned the monitor off about a month ago, and haven't used it since.

The reasons as I see them, in retrospect:

- Overall ergonomics: My PowerBook is comfortable to use as-is. More parts just make it more complicated. I do continue to use an outboard mouse.

- Display quality: Side-by-side, I think the LCD looks better. I've always liked the precision of LCD, and coupled with well-anti-aliased text, it's my display of choice.

- Tabs: My browser, my instant messenger of choice, and my terminal program all do tabs. For me, they let me organize what I'm doing far better than real estate ever did.

- Transparency: I thought it was going to be another one of those novelty phases... but I very quickly got into the habit of reading the documentation in the browser in the background while working in the transparent terminal above it. It's actually more efficient, I think... no more eyes darting around looking for things, it's all stacked up.

I was specifically looking for a 12" Apple... I wanted something I could throw in my bookbag and take everywhere. I thought I was going to feel cramped on the screen (1024x768? I'm not a peasant!)... but just the opposite, I'm more comfortable on my PowerBook than I have ever been elsewhere. I work on it 8-12 hours a day, and couldn't be happier.

So that's my $0.02--maybe you wouldn't be so unhappy with it, after all. Too bad there's no 2-week test drive option.

Why in hell are you installing outlook and MSN if you're on Mac? You have the chance to be 100% microsoft-free, and yet you blow it. Don't complain about it.

Outlook Express is a decent mail client, and MSN Messenger is the only way to chat online with people who refuse to use anything other than MSN Messenger. It's not about being Microsoft-free, it's about having the choice to use the best tools for the job; occasionally that may include Microsoft software.

I do have a few tips though : switch to something else your your email (does Safari comes with an email client? If not, surely there's other options, especially on OS X).

Mac OS X includes an e-mail client simply called Mail. However, he specifically said he was running Mac OS 9, presumably because his hardware is too old to run Mac OS X or he runs applications (or drivers) that don't work on Mac OS X. So, Safari and Mail are both out of the question. Mozilla Mail is obviously an option, although it has the same type of problem he described with Outlook Express (links clicked in Mozilla Mail will open in a Mozilla browser window, not your default browser) - but since Mozilla is his default browser anyway, it's a non-issue. Eudora is another option.

As for MSN, just switch to ICQ or get a multi-protocol client like Trillian (or similar if Trillian isn't available on OS X).

Trillian is Windows-only, and I'm not aware of any multi-protocol clients for Mac OS 9 (Fire and Proteus are Mac OS X-only). Doesn't do much good to switch to ICQ if the people he wants to talk to are using MSN.

Of course, Proteus is shareware, not free or open source. Does anyone know of an OS X client that's free and still working? Other than Messenger itself of course - that's ad-supported and I hate adverts.

Cheers,
Ian

Another multi-service IM application for Mac OS X Proteus will have the Yahoo! connectivity restored in an official release later today. Until then, there is an updated Yahoo plugin available from this forum thread.

Additionally, Proteus 3.02 and later shouldn't have any problems with the MSN network, provided Microsoft don't have any tricks up their sleeve.

- proton

Another multi-service IM application for Mac OS X Proteus will have the Yahoo! connectivity restored in an official release later today. Until then, there is an updated Yahoo plugin available from this forum thread.

Additionally, Proteus 3.02 and later shouldn't have any problems with the MSN network, provided Microsoft don't have any tricks up their sleeve.

- proton

Hmm, I always thought that Trillian used code from gaim or Meredydd's libmsn2.

I've heard that the gaim devels did help them out in moving to the new Yahoo protocol when the old one stopped working.

There's also proteus that uses code from GPLed projects, and does comply with the GPL (by releasing that portion under the GPL). I find it odd that these guys use GPLed code, but never acknowledge the original authors.

Hmm, I always thought that Trillian used code from gaim or Meredydd's libmsn2.

I've heard that the gaim devels did help them out in moving to the new Yahoo protocol when the old one stopped working.

There's also proteus that uses code from GPLed projects, and does comply with the GPL (by releasing that portion under the GPL). I find it odd that these guys use GPLed code, but never acknowledge the original authors.

Mac version out of date?
*iChat*
Cough :p

Now before you flame me, I realse iChat is not made by AOL (duh), but you'd be silly to use AIM over iChat. Why would AOL try to compete with that?
*Off Topic Warning*
Though on a side note, if you are looking for an alternative solution, Proteus is an excellent IM client that supports all major networks. I'd recommend it over iChat.
*End Off Topic Warning

"Today's SlashDotFunQuiz is to predict the order in which, impact when, and years until these other Mac products get the axe: Media Player, MSN Messenger, Office, Outlook, and Virtual PC."

So, what are our alternatives?

Media Player: VLC, MPlayer for OS X

MSN Messenger: Proteus, Fire

Office: Apple Works, Keynote as Powerpoint Replacement, Open Office, AbiWord, Gnumeric

Outlook: Apple Mail.app, iCal, Evolution,

Virtual PC: Ya, well, maybe sometime RealPC will appear after they settle with Microsoft. But who uses that stuff anyway?

Last but not least, Internet Explorer: Safari, Camino, Mozilla and maybe soon again Omniweb, thanks to WebCore. (Yes, i left out Opera & iCab)

Okay, did i miss something? ;-)

If I remember correctly, Proteus was using GPL'd code w/o releasing source for quite a while before the author must have realized he'd have to open up ALL of the intermingled code. But instead of doing that, he made the GPL'd code run in a seperate process and kept his contribution closed.

He should have released the code that had been intermingled up to that point. Instead he just seperated out his wrapper code from the GPL'd "daemon", runs it as a seperate process, and never released squat.

That pissed me off. Hence I will never use Proteus. Fire is too awesome anyway, and it's GPL'd and the source is available.

Personal preference, I realise, but I have found Proteus to be much more stable and reliable, and the interface/feature set (such as the messaging centre etc), far superior to Fire.

I for one will be happy as a pig in shit if it means i can stop using the OS X version of ICQ
Well, let me make you happy:Proteus is a trillian-like IM client for OSX that connects to most IM services including ICQ.

Maybe it's a Canadian thing, but my experience (and everyone I know seems to be the same has been that the popularity of the messengers goes like this:

1. ICQ
2. MSN
3. All the others. I don't even know a single person who has ever used AIM, Yahoo, Jabber or Gadu-Gadu.

FWIW, I use Proteus a very well-written Mac client that does ICQ, MSN, Yahoo, Yahoo Japan, AOL IM, AOL IM(Oscar)-whatever that is, Jabber and Gadu-Gadu.

Yes, it's shareware, and no, it's not GPL'd, but it's still damn good software!

Does anyone have any sort of stats on regional/national usage of different IMs? Since your IM of choice is largely based on how many of your friends use a given network, it's not totally illogical that it might vary from place to place.

You assume it's made any major updates in the last 6 months. It hasn't. It's all little fixes, and some localisation.

I prefer Proteus now. At least its UI is decent. Single window messaging is like single window browsing; you can't go back to something without it.

While you are mentioning Trillian for the PC, I think it would be a good place to mention Proteus for Mac OS X.

Indigofield.com

This is by far the most excellent multi-client messaging App for Mac Users.

Proteus.

Download here.

Check for updates here.

Proteus.

Download here.

Check for updates here.

Proteus.

Download here.

Check for updates here.

Fire is a decent IM client, but if one is using Mac OS X, I would strongly suggest using Proteus instead (which, for what it's worth, does support MSN).

I also wonder why you say just because somebody uses a Mac they probably don't need MSN. Unfortunately, MSN is used by SO many people these days that, at least for me, it's been practically impossible to know a large group of friends and not have a significant number of them only on MSN.

- j

Proteus shits all over Fire. Fire is slow, ugly, and old.

AOL wants you to use AOL's client. That means you see AOL's advertising, get hit up with AOL's promotions, AOL's URL inserted onto your desktop, have AOL's logo burned into your retina, get enticed to use more AOL services, etc. Nowhere is AOL saying these clients are hard to write, just that they want you to use their specific client.

As far as AOL is concerned GAIM & Trillian & Proteus et al are poachers on their territory. Are they hard or easy to write? AOL would like to see that they're as hard as possible as every one of them is adding users to AOL's servers & networks who aren't getting a steady diet of AOL-marketing in return. But, they're not the issue here.

Rather AOL's issue is getting AOL's servers to talk to MSN's & Yahoo's and all of the other's servers. It's about setting up peering access and interoperability standards. Server to server stuff, never client to 3rd-party server, thus keeping the clients safely locked into AOL's own service.

Is that hard? Probably yes. You've got to write something that extracts out material intended for the other services from your own servers, translate it to a standardized format, that format really should include as much common functionality as possible (both for today's features and those anticipated near-term,) transfer this 'universal material' to the appropriate 3rd party services, then do all the same in return and reinsert it locally into a format your own servers & clients find palatable. Along the way you've got to handle all sorts of failure modes, translation issues, directory services, security issues, etc. all on a potentially massive scale with software that was never really architected for outside access.

What's the payback for AOL? More users? AOL's already got the #1 & #2 clients. Every 3rd-party client they enable to reach their customers is another load on their system without much benefit to them (AOLians aren't clamoring nearly as hard to get to MSNers or Yahoolites etc. as those are to connect to AOL!) So yeah, with value down and a dubious payback AOL is unenthused at this project - not surprising.

AOL has had a deal with Novell for their DigitalMe service for a few years now. After announcing a "partnership" years ago AOL has now finally released something with Apple, their new iChat. Word is that AOL is, like all of the other folks in the once booming chat field, looking to go after corporate customers in a bid to make their market penetration pay off now that the whole banner-ad market has imploded. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to sell 10,000 licenses to Colgate-Palmolive then it is to push 1,000,000 ads at jaded chatters.

Enough said.

Proteus is a wonderful ICQ, AIM, MSN, Yahoo!, IRC, and Jabber client. It's also Cocoa, and it's been nothing but wonderful in my experience.

It's one of the most underrated OS X applications. Honestly, it's far and beyond Fire. Adium is probably nice... but I don't actually know ANYONE that uses AIM (I couldn't test iChat properly because of that).

All well.

Proteus is what you're after. I'd say it's even sweeter than Trillian, and runs on OS X.

Check out Fire and Proteus. Both are tremendous IM clients... the only thing lacking from either - unfortunately - is file transfer. Proteus has this coming RSN, apparently.

There are two popular IM clients for OS X-- Fire and Proteus.

From the author of Fire, on the Fire development mailing list


{#} Replies are directed back to fire@firelist.org
{#} To reply to the author, write to Eric Peyton

Also to note some other "relationships" ...

Proteus uses many of the same underlying libraries but is violating the
GPL by not releasing the source to code to either those libraries or the
application itself.

Fire releases all of it's source code as specified by the GPL.

Proteus may one day attempt to charge users for it's application.

Fire will never attempt to do such a thing.

Proteus has no open source contributions.

Fire is mostly open source contributions at this time.

Eric


(a discussion on Proteus's site is here. The author says "As of now, proteus is in violation of GPL.")

There are two popular IM clients for OS X-- Fire and Proteus.

From the author of Fire, on the Fire development mailing list


{#} Replies are directed back to fire@firelist.org
{#} To reply to the author, write to Eric Peyton

Also to note some other "relationships" ...

Proteus uses many of the same underlying libraries but is violating the
GPL by not releasing the source to code to either those libraries or the
application itself.

Fire releases all of it's source code as specified by the GPL.

Proteus may one day attempt to charge users for it's application.

Fire will never attempt to do such a thing.

Proteus has no open source contributions.

Fire is mostly open source contributions at this time.

Eric


(a discussion on Proteus's site is here. The author says "As of now, proteus is in violation of GPL.")