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MSN Messenger Kickbans Third-Party IM Clients
No_Weak_Heart writes "As reported here back in August, October 15th is the day Microsoft set to ban third party clients from logging in to their IM service. This eWeek article notes that the day is upon us, and MS is offering few details about its progress in creating licensing agreements to continue access. The licensing issue was previously discussed here. And my copy of Fire cannot log in. Anyone else find their IM clients non-responsive?"
My trillian .74F seems to be responsive
Stripes: Because stars are overrated
Trillian works with the latest update ... 0.74 or something ..
:)
couldnt log in at first, but now it works
Trillian works fine. I'm talking to someone right now.
new aMSN version works fine!
amsn.sf.net
Cheers.
Seems to be running OK at the moment..
gAIM 0.71_4 is still working fine. I just chatted with a friend on it a few hours ago.
"it's only after disaster that you can be born resurected" - My friend Dave
trillian pro 2.0 logs in to msn just fine and without issue. i did not see them mention in the article yet their client works fine. doesn't look like *all third-party clients* have been kicked.
Ayttm (shameless plug) works. So does Gaim (AFAIK) (ok, it's here...) and most major open-source MSN clients (since a few weeks at least, they use the new protocol). The ban isn't really a ban, that's really mainly a security improvement.
blah
Weren't they trying to keep paedophiles out with enhanced "security" measures? How do they know only paedophiles don't use windows? Possibly the same "security" measures as Xbox mods and Xbox live.....
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
GAIM stopped working for me, so I downloaded AMSN - and it works brilliantly. Kinda scary how similar it looks to the original MSNM client!
But yeah, if you're experiencing problems with GAIM, maybe try your luck with AMSN.
As mentioned, Trillian 0.74f works fine... with MSN, but I'm having problems getting onto AIM with it. Weird.
-bZj
.sig
how can I set up a jabber server for me and a selected group of people?
I wouldn't imagine that the situation will get any better.
Evolution of Language Through The Ages: 6000 BC : ungh, grrf, booga 2000 AD : grep, awk, sed
Disconnected:
Protocol not supported
pld microsoft, I'll just have to get all my freinds using icq.
My Pocket PC based PDA is unable to log on with the actual MSN messenger client. I've been hearing the same from a few others.
I guess that's a pretty big oops!
Is this not just a taste of things to come ?? .. then force them to use your product exclusively ??
.. but alarm bells should be sounding for other projects as M$ pull all their stuff closer to their chest ..
Lock users into your service
Don't know about anyone else
CenterICQ is working fine on MSN for me at present...
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
using bitlbee . i'll just keep the client running and hope it won't disconnect ;)
I loaded Gaim for the first time this morning, and I was unable to log into MSM using my hotmail.com account. I loaded Firebird so I could visit Gaim's website to see if this was a known problem, and my homepage told me all I need to know.
This isn't a major problem, there are plenty of other IM clients and networks, the problem is getting all my Windows and Mac using friends to move over to using them.
I am not bitter though, after all its their network, bandwidth and development time, but perhaps its time to renew my interest in Jabber and see exactly what it can do....
Andrew McCall.
checking MSN messenger website, looks like this isn't the only change MS has done to it, chatting in chat rooms is now a subscription service, off MSN website:
In order to protect you from spam, unwanted conversations, and advertisements, MSN(R) Chat is now a subscription service. While you may enter any chat room you like, you must be a subscriber to participate.
They are charging $19.95 per year.
I've also tried AMSN a couple of hours ago and it still works.
The IT section color scheme sucks.
The problem with all you leet biotches is that while you say "I don't use MSN", the fact is that most of us are forced to, in order to communicate with our lame parents & less techie siblings who love the bubbly goodness (in their words) that is MSN. I much prefer ICQ, but I'm forced to Trillian, and have Y!, AIM, MSN, ICQ accounts. How long until Trillian supports a Skype plug-in?
geeks are cats who dig a certain kind of cool
Gaim .70 is not working any longer. I'm sure it'll be a matter of minutes before it does. ;-)
Meep Meep!
As is my Exchange Messenger client 4.7. All I get is an error about an unsupported protocol.
End of Line.
Gaim 0.70 stopped working for me last night with a Protocol not support message. 0.71 just won't load the plugin coming up with MSN is unsupported. Of course this could be to do with my config. However now I will start to have to look at alternatives as I'm on a number of MSN accounts for business reason.
:)
Prehaps MS has worked out that some people are using MSN for support of non MS platforms so wants to kick us all off. Then again if trillian has died as well prehaps I'm just been to suspicous.
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
Excuse my ignorance (I'm not so familiar with Windows), but what is this IM everyone is talking about? What does it have that, say, IRC does not? Is IM important?
)9TSS
I'm using the MSN plugin that was included with Miranda IM version 0.3.1 I think that's the latest version. I have "Use MSN protocal v.8" checked in the options.
No it's not free, it is supported by ads, which you do not see on 3rd party clients. What's even worse is that some of these 3rd party clients are FOR SALE! They make their money on Microsoft donating servers and bandwidth. As wrong as MS is in many cases, two wrongs do not make a right.
OTOH, I do use Trillian at work on NT4, as the perfectly working MSN Messenger 4.6 is banned and 5.0 keeps disconnecting.
I was running GAIM. I've been pretty happy with GAIM except for its lack of reliable file sharing. Anyway, it stopped working this evening for MSN. The CVS version wasn't any better (the build process failed to install the MSN protocol for some reason). I'm sure I could have dicked around with it for a while, but I decided to try AMSN. This sucker is sweet! I haven't tried file transfer, but it works right now on MSN and it looks exactly like the Windows MSN Messenger client. Too funny!
Tell that to them when they broke into AIM before MSN was commonplace.
Not free as in "Free Willy"; Free as in it doesn't cost anything...
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
This is not directly attached to Messenger but rather their chat service.
Oct 14th was the day they decided to also nix their free chat service in favor of their charge people roughly $20 a year for it.
TK2CHATCHATA06 are 984 users and 45 invisible on 1 servers, this is roughly a 90% reduction from oct 13th.
Why I bring this up you ask. Well very simple, msn is shooting them selves in the foot really. Their chat service it's very much possible they wanted roughly 90% of their population to leave, heck it's easier to manage. But the policy on Messenger clients, well I can't imagine anything really good will come out of banning 3rd party clients. Your typical user won't notice anyway, where as your power user with multi-clients will make a stand and leave for other services that work.
But it looks good on paper, I imagine that's their pressent mission is with both Messenger and chat, making a good case for the shareholders why such services are money markers.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Miranda works fine - actually I could only log on to MSN this morning - ICQ didnt work! :D
Has anyone written a P2P IM app? It seems at the moment that MS are trying to get control of IM in general (I suspect that the non official clients will have more and more trouble adapting in the months ahead), but with P2P we wouldn't need to rely on a central server. It could even use public key encryption of some form, then allow messages to be routed via other clients if required. Maybe someone's already done something like this? Or is there any big problem that would prevent such a solution?
Gaim 0.70 is still working for me. Hopefully it keeps working. Otherwise I'll have the painful job of trying to convince all my contacts to use jabber!
-- Book
But it isn't within their rights to use their desktop OS monopoly to create a new monopoly in instant messaging technology.
jabber
The Internet's nature is peer to peer - 20050301_cs_profs.pdf
[MSN]
UserAgent=0x0409 winnt 5.1 i386 MSNMSGR 5.0.0 MSMSGS
As usual, Windows users are SOL if you don't want to use the official client.
Help us build a better map!
Besides that: Limiting acess to services would be like if you allow only a certain type of cars on the road or a certain type of lightbulbs to be plugged into the sockets of your house. Yeah, welcome to the dark age... :-)
I've had to upgrade to the latest version (0.74f) of Trillian Basic, but it's working just fine -- chatting with someone at the moment in fact. It wasn't working earlier when I was still on version 0.74d but the later version seems to have sorted it out. It's also connecting to Yahoo! successfully as well (something the earlier version had stopped doing).
Of course, Proteus is shareware, not free or open source. Does anyone know of an OS X client that's free and still working? Other than Messenger itself of course - that's ad-supported and I hate adverts.
Cheers,
Ian
Who do you want to talk to on MSN, anyway?
Yes, I'm kidding. While, I have no real IM protocol preference. I find it humorous to see those who have 2-3 IM clients running to keep track of everyone they know.
As a GAIM user, it's even more fun to hear, "Oh, thank god you're on client xyz... I'm dumping client abc tomorrow".
I'm about ready to dump all the big ones and change my alias to "see you on jabber.org".
-David
SPFB/KT= Self-Proclaimed Flame Bait/Karma Test
Of course, if you all report which actual 3rd-party clients versions are working, MS people will find it easier to prevent these from connecting...
Or you could switch back to ICQ which is OK when it comes to instant messaging.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
...works fine with MSN as of now.
Anyone using an earlier version should upgrade to 2.0 to fix any MSN imcompatibilities.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
Well, my Gaim .71 seems to be working just fine, so go ahead and upgrade, the latest version is available here: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/downloads.php
What happened was that yesterday, the older MSNP8 protocol for accessing the MSN Messenger Network was discontinued; only clients capable of the new MSNP9 protocol can now connect. :-( but you can't have everything) because it negotiates via the Secure Sockets Layer; i.e. your IMs are encrypted with a strong algorithm and cannot easily be read by people with NICs in promiscuous mode on your network hardware.
MSNP9 is actually better than the previous protocol (as well as incompatible
There already exist third-party clients that can make use of this newer MSNP9 system; if your client does not then maybe it's worth (i)switching, (ii)asking the maintainers to add support, (iii)grabbing the source and doing it yourself you lazy wossname! However, Trillian frmo Cerulean Studios apparently does the business. I am currently connected to the MSN Network by Al's MSN; you must use at least v0.83 in order to connect.
Was the word 'ban' not clear enough?
I am sure that many of you are in a similar position to me: you use the MSN to keep in contact with many of your friends who are less interested in technology than yourself. Now, suddenly, I'll be unable to contact them online unless I use WINE to run the MS client, or wait around for someone to come up something that lets us log onto the MSN. I'm assuming that this would be, however, illegal organisations such as Cerulean Studios wouldn't be able to sell their product. There's no hope in hell I'll be able to convince any of my less technilogically adept friends to use jabber, or even ICQ (!), since nothing will have seemed to change on their side. I'm currently running some old version of Trillian on WINE, and it is unable to connect. A friend tells me GAIM 0.70 works.
It's well within their right to choose who gets to use their free service no one actually disputed that in any comments above so why post it?
windows messenger 4.7.2009 works fine :)
my version of it dosn't have any advertisting on it, altho a mates does which i think it due to that silly MSN addin that lets you view profiles and crap.
the msnmsgr 0.5 extension for firebird/mozilla dosn't work.
Right thats It I'm switching back to ICQ. I went from ICQ to MSN and now I'm going back. I got some friends who use AIM as well so can anyone tell me if I can add icq numbers to my AIM client and can I use my ICQ account on it?
In my Mandrake 9.0 system, the packages are:
SUSE systems also have mozilla development packages, but these are installed to non-standard locations, and you'll have to provide their locations to Gaim's configure script manually.RedHat systems should behave mostly like Mandrake.
Another related problem is that some of the transports that connect the Jabber network with the MSN network don't work anymore. The Jabber network supports connections to most of the other IM networks such as MSN, AIM, ICQ and Yahoo. But people using an affected MSN transport can't contact their MSN buddies anymore.
Maybe we can gather a list of currently working MSN transports here?
1. msn.gate.amessage.de
2. ?
In Korea, all your base are Only For Old People
Use Jabber for gods sake...
It's not p2p as such (NAT's a bitch) but it's there and it works. If you are that much of a P2P fanboy install a server on you PC...that's about as P2P as you would need.
That's because you're using 0.66. Why don't you try upgrading?
The gaim folks added the new MSN protocol in 0.69 and currently 0.71 is the latest release.
It connects to MSN now assuming you have the mozilla-nss or the gnutls package installed.
All the amessage ones should work as Matthias helped write the transport patch. Ask your server admin to upgrade to the latest CVS
Please see this comment.
Bitlbee worked fine until about 5min ago when I tried to disconnect and reconnect again. Get the same as GAIM: MSN - Login error: Protocol not supported.
Yeah and get disconnected all the time...
Well jabber is nice, but most jabber servers just suck.
GAIM 0.70 works fine.
When I updated to Gaim 0.69 I got rid of the nag messages so I guess they worked around or something like that.
Right?
Clever signature text goes here.
GAIM 0.70 works fine...
Why not? It's just a comment, like every other comment on Slashdot.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Latest version of amsn amsn.sourceforge.net works perfect. Also consider using other alternatives.
The obvious solution is to ignore MSN and have everybody who wants to contact you use something else. If enough people do this instead of banging their heads against the monopoly brickwall others will follow. Nobody wants to use an IM client that no friend of theirs use. I doesnt use MSN anymore and if anybody wants to IM me they better get some IM that has linux/mac/whatever support.
We all new this would happen as soon as MS had gotten a big enough userbase.
HTTP/1.1 400
I looked on 15 minutes ago (and it's the Australian evening on the 16th by now, but I'm aware they ban us in US time).
Look out!
I wish I could say:
what do we care, we just use any of the other IM's out there...
But then I think of the people I know that use MSN without protest, who have no problems with their connection, people who use MSN Messenger.
People I do not dislike for that fact: they know not better. Now the foul sword of Bill cuts the one link we had to try and gain a symbiosis between our species.
What now?
Shall we cease our diplomacy and switch over to the other IM?
Shall we resist our attempts to keep ourselves free and mindlessly implement the twisted program that is called MSN Messenger? The thought alone strikes fear in me!
I take the one and only possible step: resist the urge for getting together online:
I will simply use the phone.
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
I'm running centericq -> http://centericq.de and no more access to the msn network. It's a bloody shame.
Check my site: http://pixel.pagina.nl
Server admins go here for an updated version.
When Microsoft was fighting AOL, because AOL wouldn't let MSN use AIM servers for free, every Microsoft-fanatic was claiming that AOL was the bad guys.
Now that Microsoft is closing their own network, Microsoft fanatics are claiming that it is well within their right to choose who gets to use their free service
Yes, because he's running windows.
All the clients do (with a few extra bells and whistles) is allow you to talk online. This isn't a big deal. Instead of following the relentless
upgrade path for all these stupid clients (not just for MSN) that seem to want to go the bloatware route of most browsers , just use IRC or
just log into a talker program using telnet. If you can't like without a point a drool interface then keep getting stressed about this sort of thing ,
but if you're actually interested in what these things allow you to do (ie talk) then investigate the above alternatives. Its not rocket science.
The latest version of Gaim from the homepage works (on Mandrake 9.1), it still connects.
1 -4.1mdk.i586i bgtkspell0-2.0.3-3mdk.i586.rpm. i586.rpm
You might need a few other files but it doesn't take long.
For example I needed (in this order):
libnspr4-1.3.1-4.1mdk.i586
libnss3-1.3.
libaspell15-0.50.3-1mdk.i586.rpm
l
gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
I installed using urpmi for all but the gaim rpm.
The used as normal.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
Their Service, Their Hardware, Their Resources, Their Choice... ...
One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
Trillian Pro 2.0 is working fine for me.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Make sure to install the latest transport on the jabberserver you're using :
http://msn-transport.jabberstudio.org/
Ok maybe a few thousand knees.
Seriously they announced this a while back as a PROTOCOL upgrade, they are locking out all older protocol versions, including I would assume ancient versions of their own messenger.
Update your software people.
2. Most of time I use my own server, sharing it with few friends - never failed.
3. Whatever server you use - you don't have to use the same server as your friends as jabber namespaces will let your messages be fowarded and find the way to be delivered any way no matter if one of servers is down.
"I shall explain this by waving my hands about in an appropriate manner." -- Cambridge University Math Dept.
Pebrot 0.8.1 works fine for me. It's a Python Curses-based MSN client.
kopete 0.7.2 works just fine.
Wrong.
Who would WANT to chat with AOL or MSN weenies anyway? They are Lusers to the nth degree. There is NO problem at all!!! Not news, nor worth a shit. Why even bother?
You are correct, GNU isn't about free speech, but also not Gay Sex, its about freedom to develop and know that your code will always remain your own, but you can work together with thousands of people about how to improve it. GNU is about creating an operating system that would be free, open and better than anything a corporation could create.
And they have succeeded.
Dave Bell
I replaced it with Group Policy software installation by the new Windows Messenger 5.0 Client that can be found on the Microsoft website. After that both Exchange IM and MSN IM worked.
using miranda and i can't connect to msn.
Are there any clients for Nokia Series60/Symbian that still work?
I wanna get a 6600 but it sounds like it has been locked out before the phone is even released.
"Taligent is still pure vapor. Maybe they'll be the last who jumps up on Openstep... "
...on the amessage.* servers. They patched the transport a while ago. Never had to change clients.
Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
...is working fine here 0.70
"lack of quality control is one of the pillars of slashdot"
According to grahamlee, Microsoft didn't lock out 3rd party clients, but just changed to a new (uncompatible) protocol. So nihil novi sub sole for the moment...
Version 3.03, anyway. Can't speak for earlier versions.
Come on Redmond! How about an MSN messenger client for Linux? You can still provide the channel tabs and the advertising space - you'll just reach a few more people with the confidence that they are running code you wrote...
My Miranda-IM MSN-connected client is responsive. LW.
Someone said or I heard it's too costly for microsoft to allow 3rd party programs? I can't help but laugh at this, for other IM's do not block 3rd party programs, let's look at ICQ for example, which has been running for many years and with many many 3rd party programs available to use the network. Is ICQ complaining about this expense(if any)? and besides, it's not like Microsoft are low on cash, I would think microsoft would have much more money than Mirabilis/AOL/ICQ/Whomever owns icq.. Watch out the MS trolls are back on the loose again. The more microsoft do this sort of thing trulely makes me want to break and/or disregard their rules. I thank the community for open source.
Amsn have the new protocol gaim does not - gaim just gives a "protocol not supported " message on login. Amsn is working fine :-)
Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
Well I'm locked out of the MSN messenger network. I'm running Gaim .70, I'm wondering if .71 is as well. Though I know when i did a source compile of .72 I was strangely missing MSN plugins so I went back to .71 on my home box. Though seeing this now I see why.
Amazing, Microsoft was so big on interoperability when they tried to open up the AIM networks. I can't help but think hyopcrits after witnessing their attempts to get in to the AIM network over a year ago. Yeah it's their resources, but they didn't seem to mind back then.
This doesn't really push me towards their products. Infact it makes me want to get further away from them seeing their actions in this regard.
Hell I still can't shutdown the MSN messenger client from my windows box totally even after I close it. It still sticks in memory and sends me alerts and messages even though it's not on my task bar or system tray. I have to CTRL-ALT-DEL the task manager up and whack the process.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
I had the same problem with Fire, so after some quick sniffing round, found that the current version is being patched and due to be released soon. For those (like me) who can't wait, here are the instructions for building from cvs...
s root/fire login (press enter when prompted for a password)s root/fire checkout -r Fire-0-32-Update fire
Open a terminal and type in:
cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.fire.sourceforge.net:/cv
cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.fire.sourceforge.net:/cv
Then open up the Project Builder file and click on Build. Worked a charm for me, no problems at all.
GAIM still works...
My TipicIM client v1.6 is still responsive as of 7am est.
This is not a sig.
What whould you say if your provider (let's assume he provides you with your email address as well) decides to prevent you from sending email to people who have another provider ?
I have family all around the world, all of them using MSN simply because it's the one thing that is already installed when you buy your computer. Then it's the same with their friends, and they indeed end up locked up in MSN Mess(enger).
Now I do not use MSN, for ethical and technical reasons (I do not work under w$). Is it normal that Microsoft controls whether I can talk with my family or not ? I do not agree on that. And making it understood to the rest of the family is not an easy task, because they won't leave MSN so easily...
What you said is true : they pay for the bandwidth, etc. The real problem is the fact that this is a closed protocol. Had it been open, and would it allow other people to act as servers, we would have open servers (or could make our own) that are not controlled by m$. That's the point.
Proprietary stuff restricts the user. It might be normal for them to do so for economical reasons. Then it is not normal for users to use proprietary solutions that can control them. Having people relying on proprietary programs and protocol is dangerous and soon problematic.
That's as simple as that.
theefer
Miranda IM requires a MSN plugin upgrade to v.8 if you havent done so already. :)
cheers
"Those who do not want to imitate anything, produce nothing." -- Salvador Dali
I don't buy this whole "it's for security reasons" crap about blocking 3rd party clients... MSN's security isn't *that* bad. My call would be it's to keep direct control to monitor its users and distribute ads. What I want to know is why a company like Microsoft needs to support adware for revenue? Call me paranoid.
A computer without a Microsoft Operating System is like a dog without bricks tied to its head
You must have broker into one of our "Microsoft-fanatic" meetings where we all get together and discuss what our approach to the next issue will be, didn't you? I mean surely that is the case, rather than there being tens of thousands of people posting on here, all with different beliefs and perceptions.
updated miranda-im.org's client to the latest protocol plugin for msn - restarted - works fine! miranda-im > trillian, imho.
Miranda stopped working yesterday with MSN.
:)
This morning I downloaded the latest free version of Trillian and all is well, I can chat to my mates on MSN
" know that your code will always remain your own"
Not correct, when you GPL your work you give up any ownership over it. Read the why-software-shouldnt-have-owners on the GNU homepage.
The FSF's goal is socialism (freedom from owners) in the software field specially and most people in it probably want it in all parts of society.
Gaim 0.68 indeed disconnected with a Protocol Error, but I upgraded to 0.71 and my problem is gone. I checked the ChangeLog, but I could not find an entry that would explain why 0.71 does work.
who would pay for a closed-source clone? geez...
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
... stories like this just want me to logoff from /. for good.
Once upon a time this site contained "News for nerds, and stuff that matters."
Now it's increasingly just becoming a bunch of anti-Microsoft bullshit.
d_no
.NET...
Hi !
Just checked with the ethereal packet sniffer (http://www.ethereal.com/) and the answer is NO, MSNP9 does not encrypt the actual messages, just the password for logginf into
if you want encryption go with gaim-encryption (http://gaim-encryption.sourceforge.net/), preferably used with another protocol, like Jabber
Regards, The Anonymous One
Total baloney. MS has not kickbanned anything, they just switched over to MSNp9, which any respectable client has been using forever.
Shameless plug, KDE/QT lovers should try out Kopete, a great alternative to GAIM.
WinGAIM 0.69 is working just fine... haven't checked GAIM 0.70 for Linux... yet.
Jeremy Logan's Website.
Gaim as of 6:46 am, is not able to connect to msn
Hi ! Just checked with the ethereal packet sniffer (http://www.ethereal.com/) and the answer is NO, MSNP9 does not encrypt the actual messages, just the password for logging into .NET...
if you want encryption go with gaim-encryption (http://gaim-encryption.sourceforge.net/), preferably used with another protocol, like Jabber
Regards, The Anonymous One
Some posters seem to be of the opinion that the new MSNP9 protocol encrypts their actual messages with SSL, this is wildly incorrect !! Only the .NET logon password transmission is encrypted, all messages are in plain text... Go Grab you favorite packet sniffer (http://www.ethereal.com/) and check for yourself, i did, it's all their in plain veiw of anyone... Then go get gaim-encryption (http://gaim-encryption.sourceforge.net/) get safe, be free !
Regards
little wonder why the felonious kingdumb of payper liesense softwar gangsters/stock markup FraUD execrable, is hysterically attempting to pen in/suck more monIE from, it's hostages?
our sympathies to the remaining hostages of the naykid furor. it must be whoreabully embarrassing/expensive.
freedom/progress is just a click (or two) away.
I received the same message. I was unsing Gaim 0.70 self-building. I knew that the new protocol used ssl, then I tryed to compile it using Mozilla SSl libraries. It is working now.
When MS Messenger was first released, it included the ability to send messages to AIM users. AOL kept blocking MS Messenger connections until Microsoft finally gave up. They complained loudly the whole time about this blocking.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. But this is typical MS behavior. Now that they have a stronger user base, they talk a different line.
As a gaim developer, I am rather annoyed that this has been posted to /. in its current form, as it will just generate huge amounts of needless traffic. MSN did not block all 3rd party clients, they just restricted access to the server to clients using msn protocol version 9. Gaim 0.70 or 0.71 (the current release) compiled with ssl support (provided by the gnutls or the combination of nss and nspr) will connect sucessfully to msn. There is however some trouble with our current proxy support that users are confusing with being blocked.
Next time you might try actually connecting with a recent version of gaim or at least visiting our website before assuming we are blocked.
In fact, wasn't this one of the reasons the BSD license was created? To address the issue of code ownership in a community project?
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
YOu will need several packages to build gaim, such as gtk2-devel, glib-devel, mozilla-devel. If you install all the needed packages, get the gaim 0.70 source and use this configure line:
./configure --prefix=/opt/gnome CFLAGS="-I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/include -I/usr/include/atk-1.0 " --enable-nss=yes --with-nspr-includes=/opt/mozilla/include/nspr --with-nss-includes=/opt/mozilla/include/nss --with-nss-libs=/opt/mozilla/lib --with-nspr-libs=/opt/mozilla/lib
You are the the head of SCO, and I claim my five pounds.
Proteus is working fine, so is Gaim, and (gasp) MSN Messenger. Upgrade your clients, and chill out...
Schrodinger's cat is either dead or really pissed off...
Hi,
Alvaro's MSN isn't a memory pig, it's just the tcl/tk you are using that needs an upgrade, all redhat users should recompile their tcl/tk because the one shipped with redhat has a big memory leak. It has been discussed alot in AMSN's forums..
For the past month I have been getting messages on my dell axim, that I need to go upgrade. Every time I goto the site to upgrade... Sorry the upgrade for pocket pc is not available yet. So now I am without MSN messaging on my pocket pc. Anyone else have this issue. Now I can't log in, and I don't know where the site was to go see if they released it yesterday.
What is it with this place and the stupid high and mighty attitude people have?
"I don't use windows; I use linux so I'm not effected by the latest virus (but, I can't use hundreds of pieces of software, play the latest games, or have a box that most people can use)"
"I don't use the MSN network; I use AIM so I have no problems (but 90% of my friends use MSN, and don't want to bother installing another IM client because the one they have works, so I'll just not talk to them)"
"I don't use IE; I use Mozilla so I have no problems (but it takes more than 30 seconds to load on my system and won't load a lot of pages - I hear you say they aren't valid html, but that's how they are written, and I can't help that)"
"I don't use Office; I use some crap substandard package (but I can't open doc files and find it funny to post a message to mailing lists saying "How about plain text for us linux geeks?" every time someone uses the format)"
The point is, no one really cares what one up their own arse geek does - 90% of the world can't be arsed fucking around and take the easy option
The XML and open standards based alternative works fine here :) Including the MSN gateway.
Jabber may be find for a small set of people who want to keep in touch, but we've found that the code is way too immature to support a corporate clientbase. There are a lot of features that MSN Messenger has that Jabber doesn't and won't have in the forseeable future, and a lot of the missing features are basic things. In addition, I really don't care for Jabber's method of dealing with various issues "Just telnet into the Jabber port and send raw XML to the server! WHEEEEEE!".
it feels nice and integrated op my kde desktop and version 0.73 is now able to run msn better that it ever did.
I was reading an article on the net that said that gateway.messenger.hotmail.com port 80 would work for those behind the firewall, instead of the usual messenger.hotmail.com on port 1863. Has anyone found this to be true? What other options do I need to set for this to work fine?
Why does anyone care if MS shoots themself in the foot and disconnects their users from the rest of the world? It will lead to the demise of Messenger, not domination.
All MS Messenger was good for was letting me know when I got more span in my hotmail account...
Xaotik Designs
Kopete >= 0.7.2 MSN plugin uses MSNP9 protocol and you're able to login. Kopete is not limited to MSN, there are plugins for Jabber, ICQ, Gadu, Samba, AOL, Yahoo, SMS and more.
Kopete CVS (kdenetwork module of KDE) is also the first open source client supporting MSN (>msnp9) display pictures (thanks to Olivier Goffart). You will enjoy this if you use KDE 3.2 alpha releases or build from cvs or... wait for KDE 3.2.
Kopete siteTo get gaim working you will have to install from source as Ximians latest supported release is 0.63.
You must make sure that you have the Mozilla/Netscape SSL layer devel rpms installed. Fire up Red Carpet and grab mozilla-nspr-devel and mozilla-nss-devel.
This will get you connected using the MSN plugin and should hold you over until Ximian releases and official RPM. I have posted to the Ximian user mailing list asking for an official stance on the progress of this package.
"When you GPL your work you still have ownership"
Not in any real way, no you haven't. And that is the point with the GPL, it should belong to everybody.
Socialism is the core of the free software foundation, software shouldn't belong to any author.
Check out "Why Software Should Not Have Owners " under "philosophy" on www.gnu.org.
I'm using GAIM 0.70 and its still working fine with MSN. A few weeks ago I was receiving regular messages from the MSN service telling me to upgrade to the latest version of MSN.
I've got the latest version of Trillian (2.0) and I can't maintain a connection. It connects, then instantly disconnects. I am behind a firewall, but previous versions of Trillian worked fine. There tech support tells me that it is probably due to the fact that 2.0 uses a protocol that is very recent, and that they are working on a solution to this, although they can't replicate the problem themselves.
Miranda, in case you were wondering, is a tiny (fits on a floppy) stand alone, low frills IM client.
I'm logged in right now.
oogly boogly!
Gaim v0.70
this morning gaim tried to log me in and said:
protocol version not supported
oh well
libgcrypt-1.1.43
libpgp-error-0.5 (libgcrypt requires it).
opencdk-0.5.1 (This is required for the proper compilation of gnutls, since it doesn't properly check for the --no-opengpg flag in the configure script).
gnutls-0.9.90 (This version is reuired for the proper handshaking in the Gaim MSN plugin).
I know that also had to change some of the source code of gaim-0.71 (specifically file plugins/ssl/ssl-gnutls.c), since some of the functions in libgcrypt-1.1.43 had changed the number of parameters. The extra parameter is a size_t of the size of the buffer being passed. The older version of libgcrypt had done a sizeof inside the function, but now require the coder to supply the function with the size. I did this by passing the sizeof of the buffer to the function as a parameter.
The reason I went through all this is because the Gaim plugin would not handshake with GNUTls-0.8.11 because of a capability not being installed for certificate checking, which is found in 0.9.90, but 0.9.90 requires the libgcrypt-0.1.43 library. I am sending this post to the Gaim maintainers to let them know about the extra parameter needed to use the 0.9.90 GNUTls library.
After all this I got the handshaking to work (I checked the debug code for Gaim), and am happily able to log on MSN properly.
Even the samurai
have teddy bears,
and even the teddy bears
get drunk
It seems to me that the comment someone made about MS having every right to ban third party clients was actually quite correct. However, it also seems to me that surely this argues for a successor to IRC. Ideally it would be an open source successor and one that ran on decentralised servers etc etc... Potentially even a P2P chat environment with NO real servers!!! Does a product like this exist (but not in common usage) Regards Jo
You might also want to check out The GNU GPL and the American Way, as well as The GNU GPL and the American Dream, Freedom or Power?.
Freedom is being able to make decisions that affect mainly you. Power is being able to make decisions that affect others more than you. If we confuse power with freedom, we will fail to uphold real freedom."
To summarize, the GPL doesn't affect what a developer can do with his own code. That's what copyright is for. The GPL gives us the right as users to do what we want with that code, and protects those rights from the stinking pussbags at SCO.
Is it normal that Microsoft controls whether I can talk with my family or not ?
Shut the fuck up. There are dozens and dozens of alternatives. DOZENS. MS does not control whether you talk to your family or not. They are FREE TO USE ANYTHING THEY WANT - ANY OF THE COMPETITION. JUST AS YOU ARE.
On top of that MS makes it easy to swap out Windows Messenger for an alternative - the latest version of AIM for example will integrate into Windows directly and be accessible just like MSN using a standard published MS API.
Proprietary stuff restricts the user.
Yes. Luckily there are alternatives.
Having people relying on proprietary programs and protocol is dangerous and soon problematic.
Its not dangerous you over-reactionary zealot. Use something else. Jabber. AIM. IRC. Whatever. Just quit your whinning. MS doesnt rule the world. It's not the be-all end all of the world. Get it?
MS designed a product. They wrote some software for it. The distribute it under terms and conditions. They changed the terms. Period. There are no exceptions, no circumstances which justifies people complaining about this. Like it, or leave it.
You know, the whole situation with MSN trying to make it so that it no longer works with third party clients anymore sucks. It better not work! I like Fire. MSN doesn't have the necessary features which I'd prefer the most. Its logging system, for example, is shit. The Mac OS X client, on quit, pops up an annoying dialog to ask whether or not you'd want to save the conversation. Well, of course I do. That's why logging was enabled. Grr. And another thing, MSN does not recognize my wheel mouse. What the heck? I hate standard scrolling now that I can just wheel up and down. Any app that lacks the ability for such a, now-a-days, basic and simple feature is broken, in my view.
Here's an example of the messed up logging formatting:
Date Time From To Message
7/17/2003 19:09:15 Me (@) some-one-else (@) hi!
7/17/2003 19:09:15 Me (@) some-one-else (@) how are you?
7/17/2003 19:09:15 (@) some-one-else (@) Me I am great! and you?!
Now, that's in a table - so it should be obvious why copy and paste is officially screwed up. Seeing the person the message was sent TO right before the message can definitely be confusing as it looks like they sent it instead What's the point of saying it's to any certain person in any case?
Now, even if I finally find a way to fix the whole auto-logging on problem, there are times that I just want to check who's on... not necessarily chat - yet. So, it would definitely be nice to be able to log in with "Appear Offline" until otherwise selected.
My full version of Trillian isn't working (n/t)
So use a different service.
Okay everyone, I've seen a lot of misconceptions and misinformation once again on Slashdot about this whole situation.
;)
Here's the deal.
MSNP7 was discontinued. NOT MSNP8! This was done because MSNP7 and lower used an MD5 challenge in order to authenticate with the servers. MSNP8 and above use SSL.
Now, Gaim DOES work with the new protocol, and has for about four versions. All you need to do is install the SSL libraries. It's your choice of either Mozilla NSS or GNUTLS. Information on all of this is found at our FAQ. The current version of Gaim will tell you that the protocol plugin for MSN could not load, if you don't have SSL. The next version will load, but tell you to grab the SSL libraries, if it can't find them. That should be slightly more helpful..
It's really not a big deal, like I tried saying last time. They're not kicking off third party clients. They're discontinuing a less secure authentication method. Don't panick unless we do
amsn.souceforge.net is fine has got a update for msn9.
peace
cyph
Works great, no problems here. They even found a way around the warning message. Cyanobyte
"MSN officials said that about 98 percent of its customers have made the necessary upgrades."
means:
MSN officials said that about 98 percent of its customers have made the forced upgrades.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
nah Gaim's fine jabber's agent's are having problems on works jabber server but Gaims fine
in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that
Francis Smit
All I really want is to watch market share. Does anyone know of any standard market share reports for IM. Something like Netcrafts marketshare server reports, but for IM. I read some stuff on something like a 90% drop in traffic in the last 24 hours, but that sound's a little improbable, and their is much more to the story than the last 24 hours.
I am a monkey. This is slashdot.
Proteus from Indigo Fields works w/ MSN, but not Yahoo!.
God DAMN, there are so many things wrong with what you've said. Have you no concept of enterprise? I suppose MS should just allow anyone to link servers into their network, huh? So can I come over to your crappy house and serve up porn through your internet connection? I mean christ...you can always use one of MANY other choices and get off your lazy ass and instruct your family on how to use them. It's not Billy's fault you and your wretched clan are too stupid to figure that one out. Get a better job and use the telephone...long distance is cheap now.
Blar.
If everyone was given a free yearly pass with the newspaper to use a local cellphone-type network, whatever, for about 1-2 years, and somebody else paid for the maintainence etc... what do you think would happen?
The majority of people would flock to the free provider, others would lose a lot of business, many might go under.
However, some people don't like the provider's phone, so many make their own and use the network. The service is still available to anyone, and there's no real visible difference in most cases between people using the official and non-official phones.
Then, one day, the provider decides to lock out all non-official phones. Now, anyone not using the "official" phone cannot talk to those using the official. Also, since free phones and service were given out, many other networks have already gone down or lapsed into the disuse by majority.
Users of unofficial phones now either have a choice of losing touch, getting their friends to switch to a different network, or switching to the provider's network. Oh, and you have to buy the overpriced and undervalued newspaper to get the phone.
Maybe not the best analogy, but the best I can think of offhand, with coupons coming in papers, etc.
MSN comes with windows, thus many people automatically use it, much like IE. One day, they decided that only the official client can use the network, thus killing it for others. It hurts competing IM networks, and it hurts competing OS's that can't use messenger. And I'm sure that somebody in MS thought of this, perhaps even planned it with the programs that are often included in windows. Basically, it's a case of "switch, and you lose the ability to interact with everyone else using this service." You can expect the same with MS Office soon... as DRM will likely make OpenOffice have a lot of difficulty in compatibility....
You might want to consider that the reason given was "age verification to protect children" - however, it requires subscription to a regular service. If you wanted to verify via Credit Card whether somebody was of age or not, a simple $2-3 charge, one time, would suffice.
More like an attempt at "get 'em hooked free, then make 'em pay for me." Gee... who else uses such a strategy?
Not in any real way, no you haven't. And that is the point with the GPL, it should belong to everybody.
If you release something under the GPL, you still own copyright, and you still have the right to relicense your code to other people under other (i.e. proprietary) licenses. (Namesys' license for ReiserFS is a good example).
That having been said, if you wish to relicense code contributed to your GPL project by others then you have to obtain their permission to do so -- like the namesys people do.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Working fine from my desktop and my BlackBerry.
What IM do you use?
a) MSN Messenger
b) Yahoo
c) Trillian
d) Gaim
e) None of the above.
Funny options are left as an exercise to the reader:)
Uh, how about so they an afford to pay a programmer to adjust to the next version of Messenger, and offer you a free version (again).
i had kopete running overnight and never logged off... didnt have a problem. once i restarted the client, i couldnt get on. tried amsn... no good. tried gaim... no good.
my blog
This is OT, but please note when you use Jabber servers not under your control that if you use any of the gateways to other IM services (like the MSN gateway or ICQ gateway), your username and password are stored IN PLAINTEXT in a file on the Jabber server.
:)
So if you use MSN, the Jabber server administrator can access your passport account etc.
I was quite shocked to discover this when I set up my own Jabber server instead of using someone elses!
i'm on MSN now (oct 16) and tril pro 2.0 is functioning.
Only Yahoo still fails to allow login.
If I'm a cow then microsoft is the guy with the milking machine. When is microsoft going to stop looking at us powerusers as a bank account, instead of as a category of clients that deserve not to be bilked any more than the rest of their clientelle?
LEARNING, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious. A. Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
msn is for nazi's
Trillian Pro 2.0 still connects just fine
on Debian Unstable's Gaim (0.70) package
reminds me of the old school IRC days, haven't seen the word "kickban" or kb, bk, etc in a very long time.. awesome :)
They're allowed to close off their network. They own it, and shouldn't have to pay for "alternative" clients that still connect to Microsoft's servers, stealing their bandwidth.
The thing I do have a problem with though is Microsoft's decision to make it a pain in the ass for inexperienced computer users to not use MSN Messenger. It tries to prevent users from disabling/removing it, depending on what version you have.
why isn't IM a P2P thing?
Peer-to-peer has a couple problems relating to discovery and communication through firewalls. If a user's IP address changes every two hours, how are other users supposed to locate this user to send messages to him? You need a central server to locate them, whether this server be a DNS server, an IM server, or whatever. And how can communication work between two hosts that cannot accept incoming TCP connections nor receive UDP packets? There has to be a non-firewalled relay, and this is an IM server.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Trillian is still working for me.
I used to get a warning from Micros~1 about needing to patch my IM client due to security concerns, but I clicked the checkbox to deny further messages from them. =)
Common sense is not so common.
dwon@gando:~$ dpkg -s gaim | grep "^Version: "
Version: 1:0.70-2
Obviously somebody spends too much time on irc. Ohhhh I know, they could have set the channel to +m, and +v'ed all the MSN clients only. Or maybe they could get an IRCOP to handle things. Just kidding, shizzle my fizzle.
I don't know why the Fire people haven't updated their MSN protocol stuff since every other IM client I've seen has.
I'm also getting crashes from MSN Messenger (3.5.1, not to be confused with 3.5 which no longer works since it speaks the old protocol).
I found a program called JSuperChat that is a Java-based IM that can talk MSN. It was really slow though (perhaps because my machine is a 400Mhz G3).
I'm in the middle of compiling Psi... hopefully I'll be able to get to MSN from Jabber.
Link
For the love god, mod this up.. this is informative.
If I had mod points, I would!
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
that's in case of plaintext xdb. How about xdb_LDAP?
"I shall explain this by waving my hands about in an appropriate manner." -- Cambridge University Math Dept.
Get a grip moderators. Don't moderate when high on crack.
my msn messenger cannot log in.
This vaguely reminds me of the 'copy protection' that one has to surmount just to get software one pays for to work properly (i.e. Securerom cd's on my 72x cdrom drive).
Now I am an msn messenger user who is probably going to have to install some sort of workaround to use the service legitimately because it erroneously detects something it doesn't like. I wonder if I am breaking the DMCA now.
- nox
"No good deed goes unpunished"
No, you still own the software and can re-license it as you wish, but the GPL license just means that users can modify the code and distribute it freely. It doesn't make it owned by all.
Dave Bell
it's not like you can't donate to gAIM
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I can donate to gAIM because it's opened source, or I can pay for Trillian because I happy to really like the program.
Having used both and having paid for just one, maybe that'll tell you which one I personally prefer.
Relax, though, I spent my money, not yours.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
This is purely for curtousy reasons. There is no legal change in your ownership of the copyright when others contribute to the code, and nothing compulsory about getting the ok of others. Though I'm sure they would appreciate it.
dont you understand basic economics?! STOP SPENDING MY MONEY!!
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All