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In fact the traffic industry does use Video Detection to count cars.

http://www.iteris.com/rs/products/vvs.html

http://www.autoscope.com/products.htm

These are just 2 popular solutions.

They use video processors and fixed focus cameras to determine the presence of vehicles on the road.

Some security cameras use a similar type of system for intrusion alarms.

This is not new technology.

DARPA, and the DOD would *love* to have semi to full autonomous "kill bots" - in a way, today, they already have them for some tasks - they are called "cruise missles", which can be launched, told to stay on "hold" above possible targets, then commanded to strike on located targets. I would assume "located" likely means some form of lat/lon coordinates or painted with a laser (either by troops or from the air).

The exact same thing could be done with a kill bot: send it to a predetermined position, and tell it to "hold fire" unless acted upon agressively, or if non-friendly comes into position (at which point it could bark a series of commands in different languages to the offender - think of it as an active landmine with intelligence that can move on command), which if not heeded, shoots a warning, then if continued, shoots to kill. Friendlies are identified by RFID or similar tags. Equip them with the ability to identify each other, as well as to flock or coordinate efforts with one another. Other commands could be something like "fire on ident", where they could be set up, then when a target is painted with a laser (perhaps from a troop's rifle), it fires on that target.

You better bet that the DOD and DARPA would be all over such a system if it was proven field safe (to our troops) and easy/quick to use, and rugged. They are half way there with the TALON robots already, they just lack the rest of the package, which the Grand Challenge is dealing with...

Of course, one can also easily see the potential of scaled up versions - robotic Humvees and M1A tanks, as well as robotic quads, and perhaps legged versions...

BTW - this last was actually funded by DARPA back in the 1980's, which culminated in the Odetics, Inc. (now known as Iteris, Inc. - based in Anaheim, California - interesting the strange things going on at this company, whatwith name changes, etc - plus, they are developers of an "electronic highway" concept - I am sure there is no relation to the Grand Challenge - wink, wink) ODEX-1 legged walker - a very unique leg design that proved to be fairly robust and strong, while keeping outboard weight (on the legs) to an absolute minimum by moving all the electric motors inward toward the torso of the machine.

Think about it - if you could, in addition to GPS coordinates, vision systems, etc - also bury in the ground or nearby some form of active or passive "locator" beacons, such as what Odetics - oops, I mean Iteris - is developing - wouldn't the problem become just a little bit simpler...?

Nah - DARPA hasn't been thinking about this, not at all, not at all...

Any more I missed for Los Angeles area?

Iteris Traffic has drive times for freeway segments. It's where KFWB gets the drive time predictions.

ITS stands for Intelligent Transportation Systems, not Intelligent Transport Systems. There is a whole world of ITS that very few people know about. To learn more maybe the ./ers should visit http://www.itsa.org/, or better yet visit a company that does ITS for a living, http://www.iteris.com/. There is even a national architecture standard available for all to use when planning and developing an ITS project. Visit http://itsarch.iteris.com/itsarch/ to get more information.

Enjoy. The roads of the future are ITS based products and deployments. Infact, has anyone seen those little camera in the intersections? That is ITS. Has anyone seen those neat like weather stations along the roadside? That is ITS. Has anyone used a toll road automated pass system? That is ITS. Has anyone seen a commercial vehicle drive past an open port-of-entry while others have to stop? That is ITS.

The list goes on and on and on. Keep ./ing.
Mormonboy

ITS stands for Intelligent Transportation Systems, not Intelligent Transport Systems. There is a whole world of ITS that very few people know about. To learn more maybe the ./ers should visit http://www.itsa.org/, or better yet visit a company that does ITS for a living, http://www.iteris.com/. There is even a national architecture standard available for all to use when planning and developing an ITS project. Visit http://itsarch.iteris.com/itsarch/ to get more information.

Enjoy. The roads of the future are ITS based products and deployments. Infact, has anyone seen those little camera in the intersections? That is ITS. Has anyone seen those neat like weather stations along the roadside? That is ITS. Has anyone used a toll road automated pass system? That is ITS. Has anyone seen a commercial vehicle drive past an open port-of-entry while others have to stop? That is ITS.

The list goes on and on and on. Keep ./ing.
Mormonboy

Wow, what a case of denial.

Congressman John Dingell was made to strip down to his underwear. So much for your silly "I am strip searched... I have to take off my boots" story. Or maybe now Congressmen are crazies too, making up stories.

Barbara Olshansky, assistant legal director for the Center for Constitutional Rights, was ordered to pull her pants down in view of other travelers in Newark International Airport. On one flight six members of the Center for Constitutional Rights's staff were stopped and subjected to intense scrutiny, even though they had purchased their tickets independently and had not checked in as a group.

As for the binder, You misread what I wrote. I did not say it was a list of names. It was Doug Stuber who ran Ralph Nader's Green Party presidential campaign. He was barred from getting on a his flight, questioned about his politics, fingerprinted, and digital eye scaned by the Secret Service. He said the binder "was open, and while they were questioning me, I discreetly looked at it. It had a long list of organizations, and I was able to recognize the Green Party, Greenpeace, EarthFirst and Amnesty International." Stuber was eventually released, but after trying for two days at various airports, Stuber found he was barred from boarding any flight and missed his business trip.

A Secret Service agent at the agency's Washington headquarters confirmed that his agency had been called in to question Stuber. Asked about the list of organizations observed by Stuber, the Secret Service source speculated that those organizations might be on a list of organizations that the service, which is assigned the task of protecting the president, might need to monitor as part of its security responsibility.

So much for it being "BS".

Apparently everyone named David Nelson is being stopped and often missing their flights. One David Nelson says "at last count I've been stopped more than forty times".

the people being bothered could sue for those damages

The ACLU initiated a general lawsuit about the system (not sure how it has progressed), but good freaking luck with an individual suit for compensation.

I have seen nothing in there that says it contains your Identity

traveler_identity
credit_identity
vehicle_identity

-

Wow, what a case of denial.

Congressman John Dingell was made to strip down to his underwear. So much for your silly "I am strip searched... I have to take off my boots" story. Or maybe now Congressmen are crazies too, making up stories.

Barbara Olshansky, assistant legal director for the Center for Constitutional Rights, was ordered to pull her pants down in view of other travelers in Newark International Airport. On one flight six members of the Center for Constitutional Rights's staff were stopped and subjected to intense scrutiny, even though they had purchased their tickets independently and had not checked in as a group.

As for the binder, You misread what I wrote. I did not say it was a list of names. It was Doug Stuber who ran Ralph Nader's Green Party presidential campaign. He was barred from getting on a his flight, questioned about his politics, fingerprinted, and digital eye scaned by the Secret Service. He said the binder "was open, and while they were questioning me, I discreetly looked at it. It had a long list of organizations, and I was able to recognize the Green Party, Greenpeace, EarthFirst and Amnesty International." Stuber was eventually released, but after trying for two days at various airports, Stuber found he was barred from boarding any flight and missed his business trip.

A Secret Service agent at the agency's Washington headquarters confirmed that his agency had been called in to question Stuber. Asked about the list of organizations observed by Stuber, the Secret Service source speculated that those organizations might be on a list of organizations that the service, which is assigned the task of protecting the president, might need to monitor as part of its security responsibility.

So much for it being "BS".

Apparently everyone named David Nelson is being stopped and often missing their flights. One David Nelson says "at last count I've been stopped more than forty times".

the people being bothered could sue for those damages

The ACLU initiated a general lawsuit about the system (not sure how it has progressed), but good freaking luck with an individual suit for compensation.

I have seen nothing in there that says it contains your Identity

traveler_identity
credit_identity
vehicle_identity

-

Wow, what a case of denial.

Congressman John Dingell was made to strip down to his underwear. So much for your silly "I am strip searched... I have to take off my boots" story. Or maybe now Congressmen are crazies too, making up stories.

Barbara Olshansky, assistant legal director for the Center for Constitutional Rights, was ordered to pull her pants down in view of other travelers in Newark International Airport. On one flight six members of the Center for Constitutional Rights's staff were stopped and subjected to intense scrutiny, even though they had purchased their tickets independently and had not checked in as a group.

As for the binder, You misread what I wrote. I did not say it was a list of names. It was Doug Stuber who ran Ralph Nader's Green Party presidential campaign. He was barred from getting on a his flight, questioned about his politics, fingerprinted, and digital eye scaned by the Secret Service. He said the binder "was open, and while they were questioning me, I discreetly looked at it. It had a long list of organizations, and I was able to recognize the Green Party, Greenpeace, EarthFirst and Amnesty International." Stuber was eventually released, but after trying for two days at various airports, Stuber found he was barred from boarding any flight and missed his business trip.

A Secret Service agent at the agency's Washington headquarters confirmed that his agency had been called in to question Stuber. Asked about the list of organizations observed by Stuber, the Secret Service source speculated that those organizations might be on a list of organizations that the service, which is assigned the task of protecting the president, might need to monitor as part of its security responsibility.

So much for it being "BS".

Apparently everyone named David Nelson is being stopped and often missing their flights. One David Nelson says "at last count I've been stopped more than forty times".

the people being bothered could sue for those damages

The ACLU initiated a general lawsuit about the system (not sure how it has progressed), but good freaking luck with an individual suit for compensation.

I have seen nothing in there that says it contains your Identity

traveler_identity
credit_identity
vehicle_identity

-

At most, when they try to board an airplane they'll be stopped and questioned.

Or detained for hours, like a Milwaukee nun along with 20 young students. They were finally permitted to go to their Peace Conference the next day.

Or questioned by the U.S. Secret Service about political views, fingerprinted, and have a digital eye scan taken. He cought a glimpse of the binder the Secret Service had on him with the highly incriminating list of organizations - Green Party, Greenpeace, Earth First and Amnesty International.

Or strip-searched repeatedly, like a left-wing constitutional lawyer.

In a laughable case a managment consultant requires FBI clearance every Monday and Thursday to take a commuter flightfor business. Why? Because he has the same name as a suspected terrorist - one that's already locked up in Guantanamo Bay. Doh.

And there's no way for innocent people to get off the lists. Government officials suggested to another guy that he change his name. Gee, thanx for the help.

Strip searching 80-year-old great-grandmothers.

The lucky ones who are merely screened, not only do they get extensively screened every flight, they often go through it on every segment of a flight.

And apparently one of the best ways to get on the list or otherwise harrased is for purely political reasons. Peace activists, civil rights advocates, people that criticize Bush. American citizens who have never been arrested for anything.

-------------------
Back to the highway system...

And they're not designing it so it can function as a tracking system.

They are. There are other documents you didn't see.

DSRC is just a communication element of a larger system. A Google search on DSRC turned up the full system - National ITS Architecture(main page). To get a glimpse of the size and complexity, just look at this alphabetical list of Logical Architecture Data Flows. The system documentation is HUGE. You can easily spend an hour or two just beginning to comprehend what it includes and how the parts interact.

Phase two does incorporate cars "driving themselves" as you suggest. They are not completely autonomous though - they can accept commands from the network. It includes map updates to the cars. It includes ISP access to the cars. One page even suggests operating the door locks [] remotely.

To cite just one key page, the formatted_traveler_data
element says:
This data flow contains details of all of the service requests and confirmations input by the traveler via a personal device or kiosk, route guidance data, vehicle guidance probe data, parking lot data, trip requests and traveler rideshare requests and data, other-routes data, road network use data, and traveler payment transaction data.

That item contains your identity, route, and tons more data. Comprehensive traveler data of every interaction with the system.

Data is routed to a central system. It eventually gets swept up by the Automatic Data Historical Archive function for permanently archiving the data. Aside from the automatic permanent data archive, there are standard commands to retrive and/or seperately archive any and all data on demand.

It's all detailed on that website. It takes ages to plow through it all and find all the peices. All the data elements. All teh data flows. All the functions. All the archival details.

Any agency with a hook-up will be able to query for any specific data, or request an on-going data stream on some target, or even siphon it all off into their own database.

Just think of all the lives that would be saved with this system

At most, when they try to board an airplane they'll be stopped and questioned.

Or detained for hours, like a Milwaukee nun along with 20 young students. They were finally permitted to go to their Peace Conference the next day.

Or questioned by the U.S. Secret Service about political views, fingerprinted, and have a digital eye scan taken. He cought a glimpse of the binder the Secret Service had on him with the highly incriminating list of organizations - Green Party, Greenpeace, Earth First and Amnesty International.

Or strip-searched repeatedly, like a left-wing constitutional lawyer.

In a laughable case a managment consultant requires FBI clearance every Monday and Thursday to take a commuter flightfor business. Why? Because he has the same name as a suspected terrorist - one that's already locked up in Guantanamo Bay. Doh.

And there's no way for innocent people to get off the lists. Government officials suggested to another guy that he change his name. Gee, thanx for the help.

Strip searching 80-year-old great-grandmothers.

The lucky ones who are merely screened, not only do they get extensively screened every flight, they often go through it on every segment of a flight.

And apparently one of the best ways to get on the list or otherwise harrased is for purely political reasons. Peace activists, civil rights advocates, people that criticize Bush. American citizens who have never been arrested for anything.

-------------------
Back to the highway system...

And they're not designing it so it can function as a tracking system.

They are. There are other documents you didn't see.

DSRC is just a communication element of a larger system. A Google search on DSRC turned up the full system - National ITS Architecture(main page). To get a glimpse of the size and complexity, just look at this alphabetical list of Logical Architecture Data Flows. The system documentation is HUGE. You can easily spend an hour or two just beginning to comprehend what it includes and how the parts interact.

Phase two does incorporate cars "driving themselves" as you suggest. They are not completely autonomous though - they can accept commands from the network. It includes map updates to the cars. It includes ISP access to the cars. One page even suggests operating the door locks [] remotely.

To cite just one key page, the formatted_traveler_data
element says:
This data flow contains details of all of the service requests and confirmations input by the traveler via a personal device or kiosk, route guidance data, vehicle guidance probe data, parking lot data, trip requests and traveler rideshare requests and data, other-routes data, road network use data, and traveler payment transaction data.

That item contains your identity, route, and tons more data. Comprehensive traveler data of every interaction with the system.

Data is routed to a central system. It eventually gets swept up by the Automatic Data Historical Archive function for permanently archiving the data. Aside from the automatic permanent data archive, there are standard commands to retrive and/or seperately archive any and all data on demand.

It's all detailed on that website. It takes ages to plow through it all and find all the peices. All the data elements. All teh data flows. All the functions. All the archival details.

Any agency with a hook-up will be able to query for any specific data, or request an on-going data stream on some target, or even siphon it all off into their own database.

Just think of all the lives that would be saved with this system

At most, when they try to board an airplane they'll be stopped and questioned.

Or detained for hours, like a Milwaukee nun along with 20 young students. They were finally permitted to go to their Peace Conference the next day.

Or questioned by the U.S. Secret Service about political views, fingerprinted, and have a digital eye scan taken. He cought a glimpse of the binder the Secret Service had on him with the highly incriminating list of organizations - Green Party, Greenpeace, Earth First and Amnesty International.

Or strip-searched repeatedly, like a left-wing constitutional lawyer.

In a laughable case a managment consultant requires FBI clearance every Monday and Thursday to take a commuter flightfor business. Why? Because he has the same name as a suspected terrorist - one that's already locked up in Guantanamo Bay. Doh.

And there's no way for innocent people to get off the lists. Government officials suggested to another guy that he change his name. Gee, thanx for the help.

Strip searching 80-year-old great-grandmothers.

The lucky ones who are merely screened, not only do they get extensively screened every flight, they often go through it on every segment of a flight.

And apparently one of the best ways to get on the list or otherwise harrased is for purely political reasons. Peace activists, civil rights advocates, people that criticize Bush. American citizens who have never been arrested for anything.

-------------------
Back to the highway system...

And they're not designing it so it can function as a tracking system.

They are. There are other documents you didn't see.

DSRC is just a communication element of a larger system. A Google search on DSRC turned up the full system - National ITS Architecture(main page). To get a glimpse of the size and complexity, just look at this alphabetical list of Logical Architecture Data Flows. The system documentation is HUGE. You can easily spend an hour or two just beginning to comprehend what it includes and how the parts interact.

Phase two does incorporate cars "driving themselves" as you suggest. They are not completely autonomous though - they can accept commands from the network. It includes map updates to the cars. It includes ISP access to the cars. One page even suggests operating the door locks [] remotely.

To cite just one key page, the formatted_traveler_data
element says:
This data flow contains details of all of the service requests and confirmations input by the traveler via a personal device or kiosk, route guidance data, vehicle guidance probe data, parking lot data, trip requests and traveler rideshare requests and data, other-routes data, road network use data, and traveler payment transaction data.

That item contains your identity, route, and tons more data. Comprehensive traveler data of every interaction with the system.

Data is routed to a central system. It eventually gets swept up by the Automatic Data Historical Archive function for permanently archiving the data. Aside from the automatic permanent data archive, there are standard commands to retrive and/or seperately archive any and all data on demand.

It's all detailed on that website. It takes ages to plow through it all and find all the peices. All the data elements. All teh data flows. All the functions. All the archival details.

Any agency with a hook-up will be able to query for any specific data, or request an on-going data stream on some target, or even siphon it all off into their own database.

Just think of all the lives that would be saved with this system

At most, when they try to board an airplane they'll be stopped and questioned.

Or detained for hours, like a Milwaukee nun along with 20 young students. They were finally permitted to go to their Peace Conference the next day.

Or questioned by the U.S. Secret Service about political views, fingerprinted, and have a digital eye scan taken. He cought a glimpse of the binder the Secret Service had on him with the highly incriminating list of organizations - Green Party, Greenpeace, Earth First and Amnesty International.

Or strip-searched repeatedly, like a left-wing constitutional lawyer.

In a laughable case a managment consultant requires FBI clearance every Monday and Thursday to take a commuter flightfor business. Why? Because he has the same name as a suspected terrorist - one that's already locked up in Guantanamo Bay. Doh.

And there's no way for innocent people to get off the lists. Government officials suggested to another guy that he change his name. Gee, thanx for the help.

Strip searching 80-year-old great-grandmothers.

The lucky ones who are merely screened, not only do they get extensively screened every flight, they often go through it on every segment of a flight.

And apparently one of the best ways to get on the list or otherwise harrased is for purely political reasons. Peace activists, civil rights advocates, people that criticize Bush. American citizens who have never been arrested for anything.

-------------------
Back to the highway system...

And they're not designing it so it can function as a tracking system.

They are. There are other documents you didn't see.

DSRC is just a communication element of a larger system. A Google search on DSRC turned up the full system - National ITS Architecture(main page). To get a glimpse of the size and complexity, just look at this alphabetical list of Logical Architecture Data Flows. The system documentation is HUGE. You can easily spend an hour or two just beginning to comprehend what it includes and how the parts interact.

Phase two does incorporate cars "driving themselves" as you suggest. They are not completely autonomous though - they can accept commands from the network. It includes map updates to the cars. It includes ISP access to the cars. One page even suggests operating the door locks [] remotely.

To cite just one key page, the formatted_traveler_data
element says:
This data flow contains details of all of the service requests and confirmations input by the traveler via a personal device or kiosk, route guidance data, vehicle guidance probe data, parking lot data, trip requests and traveler rideshare requests and data, other-routes data, road network use data, and traveler payment transaction data.

That item contains your identity, route, and tons more data. Comprehensive traveler data of every interaction with the system.

Data is routed to a central system. It eventually gets swept up by the Automatic Data Historical Archive function for permanently archiving the data. Aside from the automatic permanent data archive, there are standard commands to retrive and/or seperately archive any and all data on demand.

It's all detailed on that website. It takes ages to plow through it all and find all the peices. All the data elements. All teh data flows. All the functions. All the archival details.

Any agency with a hook-up will be able to query for any specific data, or request an on-going data stream on some target, or even siphon it all off into their own database.

Just think of all the lives that would be saved with this system

At most, when they try to board an airplane they'll be stopped and questioned.

Or detained for hours, like a Milwaukee nun along with 20 young students. They were finally permitted to go to their Peace Conference the next day.

Or questioned by the U.S. Secret Service about political views, fingerprinted, and have a digital eye scan taken. He cought a glimpse of the binder the Secret Service had on him with the highly incriminating list of organizations - Green Party, Greenpeace, Earth First and Amnesty International.

Or strip-searched repeatedly, like a left-wing constitutional lawyer.

In a laughable case a managment consultant requires FBI clearance every Monday and Thursday to take a commuter flightfor business. Why? Because he has the same name as a suspected terrorist - one that's already locked up in Guantanamo Bay. Doh.

And there's no way for innocent people to get off the lists. Government officials suggested to another guy that he change his name. Gee, thanx for the help.

Strip searching 80-year-old great-grandmothers.

The lucky ones who are merely screened, not only do they get extensively screened every flight, they often go through it on every segment of a flight.

And apparently one of the best ways to get on the list or otherwise harrased is for purely political reasons. Peace activists, civil rights advocates, people that criticize Bush. American citizens who have never been arrested for anything.

-------------------
Back to the highway system...

And they're not designing it so it can function as a tracking system.

They are. There are other documents you didn't see.

DSRC is just a communication element of a larger system. A Google search on DSRC turned up the full system - National ITS Architecture(main page). To get a glimpse of the size and complexity, just look at this alphabetical list of Logical Architecture Data Flows. The system documentation is HUGE. You can easily spend an hour or two just beginning to comprehend what it includes and how the parts interact.

Phase two does incorporate cars "driving themselves" as you suggest. They are not completely autonomous though - they can accept commands from the network. It includes map updates to the cars. It includes ISP access to the cars. One page even suggests operating the door locks [] remotely.

To cite just one key page, the formatted_traveler_data
element says:
This data flow contains details of all of the service requests and confirmations input by the traveler via a personal device or kiosk, route guidance data, vehicle guidance probe data, parking lot data, trip requests and traveler rideshare requests and data, other-routes data, road network use data, and traveler payment transaction data.

That item contains your identity, route, and tons more data. Comprehensive traveler data of every interaction with the system.

Data is routed to a central system. It eventually gets swept up by the Automatic Data Historical Archive function for permanently archiving the data. Aside from the automatic permanent data archive, there are standard commands to retrive and/or seperately archive any and all data on demand.

It's all detailed on that website. It takes ages to plow through it all and find all the peices. All the data elements. All teh data flows. All the functions. All the archival details.

Any agency with a hook-up will be able to query for any specific data, or request an on-going data stream on some target, or even siphon it all off into their own database.

Just think of all the lives that would be saved with this system

good luck on it. Please let me know how it goes after your launch.