Slashdot Mirror

Essentially:
'Cocoa' and Java.

Here you go:
https://mustang.dev.java.net/

I stumbled across this liveCD two days ago on distrowatch and simply could not help downloading it, if only out of curiosity. I had thought LookingGlass to be defunct, but it seems theyre making quite some progress. The livecd is slax-popcorn based, boots in about two minutes with some (very) minimal hardware detection - though to be fair, it picked up on my video card and configured it for acceleration. When it loads into X, youre dropped into a plain ole minimal fluxbox desktop. At this point, I started poking around wondering when and where the Looking Glass would show up. But, never fear, its simply loading. Give it a little while and the java desktop will load in a window unto itself. Its a little cpu intensive, so you would benefit from a faster box with a decent amount of ram. The interface is rather slick..think aqua which has traded perfect eyecandy novel three-dimensional windowing (its still in development, so perfection is by no means expected - expect a few random lockups). If anyone does download and boot from it, I suggest clicking on the blue star at bottom right - it has information concerning the desktop's operation. At top left are three funky icons that are virtual desktops. The menu doesnt really work too well, but all things considered it does look pretty interesting. Window focussing and transparencies are rather well done as well. Concerning the innovative features and functions of the wm, you just have to see it; an explanation in text would not do it justice. The website is, of course, on its knees thanks to the slashdot deluge, but hopefully this little bit will help.

Actually I can tell you the comparison between java and php is like comparing apples and eggs. Secondly, its an overly simplified statement. Java does much more and is much broader, and java is a programming language, not a website language such as php. There are lot of tools that are build on java and lots of frameworks that make it possible and easy to create websites and many other applications. Those thinking of JSP only are comming several years behind and are missing the fun.

You shoud know how much of an explosion Java has undergone and the number of initiatives, open source frameworks, tools, ... have been created in Java in the last years. It's simply unbelievable. Very usefull and powerfull stuff, and used by many, many people.

Simply said, Java has not failed at all. Its a big winner. What is true is that with php, it has been easier to create rather simple websites quickly (several years already), which run fine with less powerfull servers.

And for those thinking that Java is dead on the desktop: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/hansmuller/archive/20 05/10/official_swing.html

I'm not even starting to talk about other domains Java has arrived in. Millions of devices that support it.

Php is good at what it does, to some limits and it is not alone. Java is much more powerfull, much broader and has a very big marketshare also in completely other domains.

Every big vendor supports Java (even Microsoft to some extend) and a lot of them with big power and success. In the world of open source Java is also a big winner with many big successfull projects.

Already I'm reading posts saying, "The Java problem hasn't been solved! WAAAAA!"

Sorry, you Java bigots. You're just going to have to deal. And, by "deal," I mean "stop bitching and start pitching in."

Why exactly does this get a special mention? It's not like Sun makes lots of money (directly) off J2EE app servers - IBM WebSphere and BEA are the ones who would feel the most pain if average prices fell a lot.

In addition, cheap/free J2EE servers have been around for a while. I think JBoss got proper J2EE certification recently too...

Sun also has an Open Source J2EE server - GlassFish.

Java2D is now OpenGL accelerated under mustang.

Glitz provides support for hardware acceleration too.

So, usage of OpenGL is increasing...

For those using Java and wishing for a RoR-like package for Java, look at Trails - https://trails.dev.java.net/

The "fatness" perception of JVM's is actually pretty misleading. A great deal of that memory is not part of the working set for the JVM. For more details check out this excellent article which mentions how Mustang now reduces the "perceived" memory requirements of the JVM by as much as half by simply changing how jar's are loaded.

That said, Netbeans does tend to be a hideous memory pig.

(I'd like to see someone make a cutting edge game in Java).

There are lots of games done in Java, mainly for mobile phones through J2ME. A few of them might have cutting edge gameplay (though I've yet to see one), but it is unlikely to see cutting edge graphics. Still, there are some pretty impressive things you can do with JOGL.

Trying programming in Java sometime outside of a website applet, kid, and maybe you will learn something.

Good for them, but why? The Aqua DE is so much cooler than KDE. I wish I could get Aqua on a *nix box.

As a side note, if you like cool DE's, you should check out Project Looking Glass (https://lg3d.dev.java.net/).

Does anyone have any real world experience with either DWR or JSON? I'm curious to hear what others think.

The real open source Oracle contribution is the persistence technology in the reference implementation of Java EE platform 5, under the CDDL. It will be part of Glassfish (or "SJSAS").

https://games.dev.java.net/

The answer to your question is no. Java has clearly borrowed some things from C#, though C# itself heavily borrows from Java. The EJB 3.0 spec for example will make use of dependency injection. Take a look at Groovy which will be integrated into Java (javax.script in 6.0.)

Now it is true that as a more widely used (on the Enterprsie level) language, Java is going to move more slowly than C#. C# is newer and trying to take mindshare from Java, so it must move faster. Just having a great IDE is not enough.

http://jgallery.dev.java.net/

Yes, and I am planning to test the method and use it in a future version of my system to chat with dolphins, which now works for simple series of whistles, Leafy Sea Dragon at https://leafy.dev.java.net/ and at http://sf.net/projects/c2h/

I have been planning to find and use such a technique for over 25 years. The timing is excellent as my first complete version of the program was released earlier this year and is ready for such a grammar discovery technique.

Your are invited to test the advertised technique and write a Java package that the c2h/leafy project(s) could use.

I must also state the following:

- very few scientists are interested in dolphin communication research involving 2-way acoustic interaction. Why? I don't really know, except that I suspect that most are scared of looking bad, off-the-wall. I think that real progress in this field will first come from non-scientists, maybe from serious whale watchers and maybe from geeks like us.

- no computer system (at least no non-military system) can reliably understand human communication; language understanding can only be done by brains so far (not necessarily a human brain though).

- grammar discovery is helpful for trying to research a human or non-human language but grammar is not understanding.

- other types of animals use complex 2-way acoustic communication, for example, elephants.

- different species of cetaceans have different types of 2-way communication, for example, blue whales communicate much differently than dolphins, and I would not be surprised if dolphins do not understand blue whales.

cheers

It's opensource and as available as can be from https://lg3d.dev.java.net/

May I point your attention to project looking glass

Guess you've never heard of Cairo (as another reply pointed out), or maybe Xgl /Xegl?

Or even seen the videos of what luminocity can do? It can do that NOW. How about Project Looking Glass?

Just becuase you don't know about them yet doesn't mean they don't exist.

IS BETTER AND MORE SECURE than

jdk-6_0-ea-bin-b49-linux-amd64-25_aug_2005.bin

;)

By + + + J.C. Pizarro + + + ATH OK.

Yes, mod the parent up!

Open DRM is an opportunity to create DRM that truly manages ALL rights, digitally. The java.net writeup on this had some very nice anecdotes about "buying" (i.e. "licensing") the same music multiple times simply because your copy got destroyed.

The fact is, the **AA wants to have their cake, and eat it too. They want to say you don't OWN the music, you just have a license to it. But if that were true, then I shoudl be able to ask them to send me on CD, the same labum I bought on tape, for only media and shipping costs. Of course, this would require them to maintain a centralized database of who has a license to what, and that would just be too much for them to deal with! Besides, then they couldn't profit from selling you the exact same thing, over and over again!

But isn't that what would be fair?

Matt Raible's Comparison of Web Frameworks would be a good start for you, along with the Equinox demo

Matt Raible's Comparison of Web Frameworks would be a good start for you, along with the Equinox demo

Over the past few years, it seems as though there has been a major divide between the interests and desires of major media companies and the end user. Major media companies have shown a strong desire to control their digital content via copy protection and DRM, using their own distinct proprietary methods and limiting the usage of said content to a limited scope (you may only play on such-and-such player, copy n times, and/or play this video in the next 24 hours). End users have shown a desire for flexibility in the way the DRM is applied. If end-user Tom purchases a music file, Tom wants to play that file on any player (software or hardware) and be able to make CD copies so he and his wife can each listen to it while driving separate ways in their respective humvees.

An open source DRM standard would make a method of controlling content widely available. The more widely available it is, the more players we can utilize in playing our DRM'd music, movie, etc. Hopefully, with Sun behind this, enough media executives will start to trust an open DRM.

Pros:
1. High level of transparency/accountability.
2. The standards will be open to everyone. (Now Joe Schmoe can write a player that can read CheapoMP3z.com's DRM'd music.)
3. It's Sun - hopefully, all the music/movie execs will recognize the name and trust them and their products.

Cons:
1. Vaporware? (open DRM is a nice idea, but when's it gonna get here? we'll not hold our breath, thanks.
2. It's Sun - do we trust them and their products?

That is simply not true. Struts delivers web contents and employs the MVC concept. There is no reason why an Ajax component cannot update or retrieve Struts generated content.

Some simple examples can be found here
And here is an article about using Ajax with JSF.

It's funny, I have been using Ajax stuff for quite a while (before the term "Ajax" was coined), but it seems it needed a name to take off.

How about here?

The challenge with Ajax, and complex DHTML is that a slight error produces big problems. Its a shame that the book doesn't look at the tooling approaches for instance the Ajax plug-in that Sun have released (via Open Source). DHTML and these active elements can be great, but as a practice I'd be more inclined to have a few people invest time in developing components that the majority of people can use, rather than having lots of people trying to understand the complexities, and buggering it up.

Interesting technology, but too easy to use REALLY badly. It would have been nice if the the book had covered how to build SOLUTIONS using DHTML, rather than focusing on how an individual can use it.

Just an FYI, there is a trails project that mimics the ruby on rails project for Java (I've worked with the guy that developed it).

Even just a year ago, I'd totally agree with you... but the big shift that makes JavaScript valuable is the AJAX paradigm for web applications, which is esssentially the strategy of using XmlHttpRequest objects to send requests that allow you to update snippets of the resident document.

Sun actually supports Harmony and said so the day it was announced - VNU has it wrong (as usual). Congratulations, you found the only report that neglected to mention that both the senior Sun engineer responsible for Java strategy and the person responsible for future open source strategy at Sun both expressed support for harmony at a level pretty similar to IBM's support ("jolly good, and we may contribute at some point in the future"). While Gosling's misreported off-the-cuff comments make for good tabloid sensationalism they don't represent Sun's official view.

You might want to check out this article about Trails when you get a chance. Trails uses the some of the more interesting J2EE frameworks - (Hibernate, Spring, and Tapestry being some of the key pieces) to create something quite like Ruby on Rails but with Java under the hood... In the interest of full disclosure, I know the creator of Trails from my old Java user's group in Cincinnati.

With the Aqua LAF for Swing having Cocoa available through Java doesn't do anyone much good. With a very simple "am I running on a Mac?" if statement you can turn on the Aqua LAF and have a JMenuBar become the application's Mac menu bar. While being able to build a Java GUI in Interface Builder is nice it isn't something a whole lot of people are doing.

The biggest issue is in order to write Cocoa applications using Java you have to learn Cocoa. If you're going through that effort it is a lot simpler to spend the two days learning Objective-C and getting used to retain counts. You'll find there's a lot more support and documentation than writing Cocoa apps in Java.

When YellowBox was intended to run on Mach/PPC, Mach/x86 and NT/x86 a Java bridge likely made a lot of sense. A single application binary would run on any of those systems without recompilation. Java at the time was also seen as the Next Big Thing in application development. The plans for YellowBox never panned out and Java was not the Next Big Thing with client application development (despite its success on the server). It's entirely likely that the Java bridge will end up falling under the APSL and end up in the hands of third party maintainers or an entirely new bridge will be written by a third party.

You know, as an open sourcer I was a little scared after I read all the propaganda that Longhorn would actually be innovative and really hard to compete with. I was kind of worried that linux might just be blown out of the water by something so incredible that people couldn't possibly live without it.
Thanx for brining me back to reality. This is looks like the same repackaged crap. A few tweaks to xpde and a few proggies and you've got something that looks just like longhorn but blows it out of the water.
Yeah, this didn't impress me. A new icon set, a more difficult ui, and some transparent crap...
You know what did impress me though? Project LookingGlass. When I saw that my jaw dropped. That was new and innovative. But then again, that was a few years ago... yeah, call me when Microsoft comes up with something NEW.

Give the jogl or Java3d package a try. If you already know java then jogl is just a wrapper over the openGL libraries. It's kind of funky to start because it's clearly a C library with a JNI. On the other hand you have Java3d which is a high level all java scenegraph package that links either to openGL or Direct3D. Java3d is very easy to start because of its simplicity and better documentation than JOGL. You can get at all of this stuff from https://jogl.dev.java.net/ or java.sun.com/products/java-media/3D/.

Or for a complete business VoIP solution, you can use Mobicents, which implements the JAIN SLEE (Java API for Integrated/Intelligent Networks, Service Logic Execution Environment). It has a Resource Adapter for Asterisk, so it can manage the protocol layer.

Sun's Java Enterprise Edition (JEE) has been opened up as Project Glassfish under the CDDL. It even uses a database engine originally owned by IBM.

Maybe its the competetion from C#/ Open java (jcg), or the fact that the java programmers seem to be listening to developers http://www.java.net/ . Or maybe its eclipse which is a great ide. It seems java development is picking up steam of late. More people I know are now doing java than c , and thats a good change (&*&*&**&&*&!!!).

Java: One Step Closer To Open Source

*sigh* Sun is already as open as they're going to go with Java by releasing it under the Java Research License. Now Sun has never complained about or hawked Open Source JVMs, but neither have they been too keen on helping out projects who bite their hands. As a result, the project to watch is the Apache Harmony Project. Given that Apache maintains a close relationship with Sun, hasn't burned their bridges, and has a good track record for completing very complex software, there's a good chance that the Apache JVM will quickly exceed Kaffe and GCJ.

Java: One Step Closer To Open Source

*sigh* Sun is already as open as they're going to go with Java by releasing it under the Java Research License. Now Sun has never complained about or hawked Open Source JVMs, but neither have they been too keen on helping out projects who bite their hands. As a result, the project to watch is the Apache Harmony Project. Given that Apache maintains a close relationship with Sun, hasn't burned their bridges, and has a good track record for completing very complex software, there's a good chance that the Apache JVM will quickly exceed Kaffe and GCJ.

It might not be under an OSI-approved license, but the source is available to anybody who wants it.

Four other frameworks shamelessly stealing from Rails:

Castle Project works on .Net with Ajax support.

Cake is a Rails-like framework for PHP, and Biscuit is another.

Lest the Java folks feel left out, there's also Trails.

For those who are interested, last year I started the SaverBeans screensaver pack, a set of screensavers implemented in Java. A small native layer is available for each platform (seeking a volunteer for MacOS) that bridges to the underlying OS. So you can write the screensaver once and run it on any supported platform.

There are currently 18 LGPL-licensed screen savers with 16 more about to be released shortly (this month). The SDK supports everything from simple screensavers to OpenGL. It's also a great platform for distributed computing.

I can't hope to amass a collection as grand as xscreensaver, but contributions are always welcome.

check out java on trails https://trails.dev.java.net/

Sun did bind Java to its next flagship OS. "Java Desktop System" (JDS) is an attempt to slowly integrate Java subsystems into a traditional desktop environment. Future versions of the desktop are expected to fully migrate to the Looking Glass Desktop Environment, which is based on the Java3D API.

JDS is currently available as a complete Linux OS, or a Desktop option for Solaris Sparc/x86/AMD64.

Oh, and BTW: Sun has been integrating Java with Solaris for a very long time. Previous versions of Solaris had many of the CDE components done in Java, including the volume control, media player, and administrative interface.

Things like Perl and PHP may not be too far away for netbeans either. They have the Coyote project which brings in support for Jython and Groovy.

It's nice to have everything in one space but sometimes it just makes sense to have different applications for specific purposes.

cAos web site is running on a non free CMS called Rife. Before [or after] you mod me a troll, look at the number of mature free alternatives CMS stystems out there.

When I start a desktop application up that is written in Java it feels sluggish.

I assume you have a fairly recent JVM installed, no? Click here, use it to clean out your hard drive, and tell me if it improves your impression at all. Another really great Java app is Azureus. Are you already using it perhaps? There also used to be a really great Gnutella client called Furi up until Limewire stunk up the place. (In all fairness to Limewire, it has gotten better too. But they really need to ditch the custom L&F for something more platform standard.)

I suppose it's something of a double edged sword. As Java gets better fewer people realize that it's Java. Which means that the old ideas never die.

If you want people to stop calling Java slow, then by all means, speed it up some more, but don't get upset when people call a spade a spade, and don't call them stupid for doing so.

*sigh* The Swing GUI is actually running faster than Windows apps. Various tests have been done that have shown that during heavy GUI updates Windows programs skip several updates while the Java program always displayed every update in the same period of time.

If I can ask an honest question, what was the last Java GUI you used? Be honest, because I'm really curious at what is continuing to give Java a bad name.

All programming languages suck.

True 'dat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's still difficulty simply distributing it, isn't there?

You're wrong. Java is completely free to bundle in binary form, and the Java Research License on the Mustang development path only requires that any recipients agree to the JRL license. No commerical use of the source code is allowed without negotiating a license with Sun.

As far as I can interpret the license, there is no issue with bundling it with Linux OSes. However, the upper-echelons of the OSS community have demonized the JVM and have found a few nits to pick. I'm already working with Sun to get clarification for them since the ones I've talked to don't want to do a tiny bit of legwork.

Or do you define "main OSS community" as "the subset of OSS developers that don't like Java", in which case that's pretty much a tautology and not worth mentioning?

More or less what is considered the "movers and shakers" of the OSS community. For example, we've heard from both Stallman and de Icaza about how "evil" Java is. Personally, I just think they're jealous (especially de Icaza) but it doesn't help Java's image any.

I don't feel the need to specifically attack Stallman for it though, and I think it's unjustified when you do it.

Sorry, but he is the leader of the FSF. AFAIK, blame rests squarely with him. If we're going to blame anyone that is. I really don't care that Hurd is not done after 14 years, but when you contrast it to the FSF's policy of "set it free" (i.e. "give it to us") you have to wonder why they think they'd be a better custodian?

And if we're talking about Java we're only talking about a collection of libraries, a syntax, and some compiler technology. The FSF have implemented those things multiple times.

If that were true, we wouldn't be talking. We'd be using GCJ/Kaffe and everyone would be happy. The reason why everyone isn't happy is that GCJ/Classpath/Kaffe have not been successful in producing a complete JVM. It shouldn't be as hard as they make it out to be, but for some reason it is.

If you choose to, you can decompose most software into smaller components. But I guess it suits your agenda to only do it for GNU and not for Java.

Nonsense. Let's do it right now:

GCC vs. JavaC -> GCC is obviously more complex.
GCJ vs. Hotspot -> Hotspot has some of the most complex technology ever developed for

B. Residual Rights. You may use any information in intangible form that you remember after accessing the Technology, except when such use violates Sun's copyrights or patent rights.