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Windows Longhorn Beta Screenshots
An anonymous reader writes "A few screenshots of Windows Longhorn Beta 1 have surfaced on the net showing off many of the new transparency features, Internet Explorer 7 and Avalon or WinFX."
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What a failure. How many more features will they lose before they just abandon it entirely.
Ooh-wee, eye candy!
Let me in on this!
Some of the ubunty themes look quite similar.
Sure is purty with the black taskbar and all!
I'm impressed. That actually looks .... ok.
(even speaking as a mac user)
nothing too new or impressive
I'm puzzled by the whole hoopla of transparancy. Besides being a 'cool feature', how does it help me in becoming more productive?
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
Seems like Microsoft is doing what Microsoft does best. Copying other companies. Maybe that's an unfair statement, but man, I hate Microsoft =).
... you can see RIGHT THROUGH IT.
Oh wait -- the server's dead.
I can say with complete certainty that the beta is still under development and has not been released internally or to the public.
Good to see you still need to click start to shut down.
I had great fun explaning that to my mum when she first used xp
What good are screenshots, when the only conclusion we get is that it's a bloated XP?
Transparency! Tabbed browsing! A search bar in the browser! Brilliant!
And why the fuck exactly did recycling old technology take them this long?
Slashdotted already. :-(
As a long time Linux user, I still always cringe when these articles come along. Can we at least keep the attacks on Microsoft original this time?
Is the server performance a Longhorn preview as well?
"And in related news, Longhorn's webserver fell on its arse after 50 geeks attempted to look at the eye-candy simoultaneously..."
Smegma.
Looks like lil' ol' Microsoft out-innovated Apple, with this translucency bidness. Transparency is so-o-o last century. ;-)
...the bluescreen of death?
Bummer, wanted to see the pics, now I'll have to wait... :(
I learn from all my mistakes, I intend to be a genius at the end of my life.
The site is already slashdotted -
/.-ed already. Server pwned.
All the anti-microsoft folks are busy writing kernel patches. Someone had the brilliant idea of writing a script to make new stabs at microsoft, but it turns out /dev/random wasn't that random...
I have freaks! I did something right...
Considering this is a "beta" - I can wholeheartedly say this is nothing impressive. Its already looking "so last year" and it isnt even out to retail yet - its hardly the DOOM3 of desktop engines. Certainly not going to be switching back to M$ on the strength of those screens!
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Here's a link to a torrent. I never seeded before, so tell me if it worked out for you.
http://melikamp.net/gfx/LH%20Screenshots.torrent
"The technologies of today --- TOMORROW!"
(yeah, I said that joke before. Kinda lame, I know...)
Circumcision is child abuse.
"many of the new transparency features"
Some one has turned the transparency up too far. When I click the link I can't even see the website.
The screenshots are als on http://elliottback.com/wp/archives/2005/07/09/long horn-5203-screenshots/
It appears that the closed window button (The ' X ', found in the title bar of each application window) has moved 15 pixels to the left.
Unfortunately none of the screenshots have any maximised windows but if the ' X ' button has moved for maximised windows as well then it will be the worst GUI decision EVER! Gone will be the quick hand flick up and to the right to close a window.
Using the 'infinite' screen real-estate in the corners and edges of the screen is very important but Microsoft continually abuse the said space and assign these areas as no-action spaces.
A truly terrible decision if it is the case.
Mirror:
http://www.networkmirror.com/JOdkEXG2eLXwsioX/www
is there going to be anything mind blowing in longhorn or is it just another coat of paint on a piece of shit?
But eye candy is what many people are all about these days. OS-X proved that eye candy is good marketing in OSes. There's a number of things in it that aren't the best from a design standpoint, like the dock (see Tog's commentary on it http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.ht ml) but look cool. There's plenty of that, and not just in computers. Often companies will do things that sacrifice some usability for cooler looks.
http://mirrordot.org/stories/38d3ca8d0f1450ecd904c fee28fb683c/index.html
"The page cannot be displayed" looks cool! Since it is the page which explorer visits most often it is very important to make it look cool.
And I'm happy to see that cmd still doesn't show directory names properly.
GO Longhorn!
May Peace Prevail On Earth
This was out on hackaday this morning... ahhh slashdot is falling behind must be the submissions from bankers from Africa offering the staff $35 MILLION DOLLARS. :) (15% handling fee not included )
Good pictures someone should make a flash slide show out of it.
...meh?
I would think a company with microsoft's resources could come up with something a little more "wow!" than that.
Longhorn checklist
- make XP look nice(r)
- if time permits, add some features
- if it doesn't, throw out some...
But Linux guys don't doing it so directly. Does Microsoft have really lost grip of reality? Gosh, there is NOTHING original in all these screenshots.
My pick is that Longhorn is next WindowsME.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
That's.. just so amazingly ugly it leaves me wondering if the screenshots are fakes, if the person that took them chose a non-default and incredibly ass theme, or if Microsoft is just hiding their secret 'not ass' theme until after beta. I mean, wow, that's bad.
On the other hand, this is quite good news for KDE and GNOME, who look better than Longhorn even before Luminosity/xcompmgr-style features become mainstream.
How many fools are going to buy an upgrade?.
There are a suspiciously large number of pro Linux websites being shown in the IE 7 windows. I can't believe Microsoft would release screenshots like that. It almost looks like the person is just using Longhorn long enough to figure out how to replace it with Linux!
And this is better than W2K how?
IF you still need to select "Turn Off Computer" (which is totally lame), then it translates to, "start to turn off the computer". What sense does that make for a new user? Even more lame...the "Turn Off Computer" option allows you to Restart the computer...something completely opposite.
I have no idea where this innovative UI stuff came from, but if it's still there in Longhorn, I'm surprised they're sticking with it.
Longhorn looks better than the garish XP, at least. But is it anything more than a re-skinned update?
You must think in Russian.
Prediction: transparency is to the the the 21st century as opacity was to the 20th century.
ed2k://|file|lh5203screens.rar|12596567|016AAB0
"ed2k://|file|lh5203screens.rar|125965
and you are all set.
dont bother with slashdotted websites
when will slashdot admins/moderators finally learn to post atleast anti-slashdot-ddos-links, like nyud, mirrors or stuff like that...
man i cant believe it, slashdot is all about slashdotting sites, and still they do it almost each and every story with their linking...
how stupid can slashdot admins/mods acutally be?
pretty stupid it seems
mirrordot is still happily serving it up here.
--- sig moved for great justice.
Nice to see them running as Administrator for that 100% secure feeling.
(Or should it be "Nice to see them running as ADMINI~1"?)
I'm scared at the ammount of people that are going to run out and buy longhorn when it comes out.
It seems like the only new thing thats destined to actually make it into longhorn is "transparency" and ie7. In 5 years that's all that seems to have happened. Oh and a new skin. That's some development model!
Who also wants to bet upon release there will be about 6 patches to fix security flaws as well.
Did anyone else notice the Google add in this picture? It's the one on the far left. The one that says "Want Longhorn today? Cutting Edge Web UIs, declarative XML dev approach, Open Source." - Xierox
Xierox
windows media player still looks (and renders) like shit. where's all the alphablending? drop shadows? most of this stuff is already possible with xp!
the gloss-transparency effect used throughout the new gui is nice though (and easy on the gpu).
Does Longhorn's Recycle Bin shows how much the bin is filled? It would be neat if it did.
:)
I remember seeing something like in old Mac OS 7.x as an addon that shows liquid container. Is there something like in Windows 2000/XP and Linux (KDE3)?
Thank you in advance.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Is a great idea for governments and accounting departments ... not so sure about user interfaces yet.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
You mean the *new* Millenium? :-P
*rofl* :D
Did anyone elso notice the open "linux noob" webpage in the taskbar in the last 2 pictures?
Here are some more screeenshots that I found because the oother link isnt working for me
http://www.jcxp.net/lh_5203_shots/
I think it looks alright, but the transparency thing really doesnt seem like that big of a deal. As far as i know, there still havent been any major improvements except for IE 7.0 (and i am counting on firefox/safari to still be better). As for the other graphics, goood job Bill, you are finally starting to catch up to macintosh! NOT.
i heard another rumor that they might be taking the my out of my documents, my pictures, etc so it will just be 'pictures, documents, music' etc etc... dont know how accurate it is though.
mac will still prevail, especially since i expect a new OS release from them by the time longhorn is out (most likely not until 2008 because they are always so late at releases)
Now, screenshots aren't a fair or accurate way to judge an OS and User Experience... but I have to say, if the article was titled Bored 15 year old creates Yet Another Windows theme, I sure as hell wouldn't know the difference.
... it's the same as XP ... just a few more items thrown in as far as permissions and security. So what exactly has Microsoft been up to for the last few years? This is the mind blowing, paradigm smashing rewrite? This is innovation?
.Net integration. What startles me is that it's taken years to get this far ... that does not bode well at all.
While the UI skin look nicer than XP IMHO, looking at the dialogues and options/settings
What really gets me is the same old tired icons and maze-like system of hierchy-tree gui navigation to be found in all the system level dialogues. That really grabbed me... it seriously gave me the impression that this Longhorn thing was nothing more than a candy shell slapped on top of the same shit MS has been selling for years.
I think it's very telling how seamless the user experience will be when the microsoft.com address in pic #2 is returning a server not found error... but let's pretend that the computer was unplugged from the net and the user typed in the redirect parameters in the url by hand.
So I'm left scratching my head... if this was indeed a complete rewrite from the bottom up as MS promised, then why the complete similarity to XP/2000/98/95???? Perhaps all their energy and focus was on real security considerations? Maybe that explains all the jettisoned features... Or maybe when they meant rewrite, they really meant pushing some code under the mat, swapping some API's out and splashing on a quick paint job oer the whole shebang to make the old look new again?
Of course, Longhorn is just XP with a new UI and added security with tighter
Longhorn Beta 1 does NOT include the major parts of the new longhorn UI, such as Aero. The main graphics stuff isn't to be publically seen until Beta 2 in early '06, and thus it's not too exciting to argue about screenshots of it now.
Black holes are where god divided by zero
So I've barely had XP a little a year and half, give or take, and I'm wondering if Longhorn will be "worth it"? I mean, the details I've read, plus comments such as those on /. say there aren't a ton of actual OS upgrades other than a few other there. However, the one thing that sticks out in my mind is how Microsoft keeps taunting how Longhorn will have more requirements hardware wise than XP. Which worries me cause there doesn't seem to be a huge change between the two OSes.
I don't want like, new software and games, to come out and be Longhorn only. I know when I was using Win 9.x there were some games and software packages I had to sacrifice cause I didn't have XP or 2k and it sucked, alot. I realize being a computer savy user, for general surfing or gaming, requires at least some hefty updates every few years or a new system every few years. I come to accept that. But at the same time I've managed to run alot of stuff on some real minimal hardware, sure 15-20 frames in Half Life 2 with every last detail on low in the lowest resolution, but the game ran ya know?
I'm also worried about the price. $100+ for an OS is just out right sad. Yea, yea I know Linux is free. But I've only got 1 machine, with no experience in a Linux enviroment I really don't wanna lose all my Windows stuff to learn it. Nor do I wish to dual boot and risk screwing the entire harddrive cause I messed up some file or command in Linux that was crucial. With the steep, steep price of the Windows OS combined with "fuck, I hope I can even run the thing" I'm wondered if long-term Windows users are doomed?
I'm all for advancements in technology. Hell I've been hoping we as a society and civilization could finally in this day and age, venture out to other fucking planets let alone computer advancements. But at the same time what about the economic hardships of the American country? (specifically). Gas is up to $2.50 where I live. A year ago it was $1.60, or $1.40 if you spent a few more minutes driving to find a better priced station. That's over a $1.00 increase in a year. You can beat in that year salaries and paychecks didn't increase to reflect that. Point being, theres just no justification for the price of the OS, combined with the nesscary hardware to upgrade to run it.
Or am I totally alone feeling like a technological noob?
Aw Frell this
Ok what's so amazing about this new interface? No really it looks just like Windows XP with another skin (which is not the best either) and icon set. No concept seem to have changed from these screenshots and this is really a shame. You still get the crappy taskbar and the balloons every time the system do something (think the hardware recognition, the balloon says that it found a new hardware, then that it is searching drivers, then that it found drivers, then that it is ready).
The command prompt shows C:\USERS\ADMINI~1\ . Funny how they still have problems with long file names and case anno 2005.
The unslashdottable mirror site has allowed me to fall out of my chair in awe of Longhorn's long-awaited, new, improved... uh.. wallpaper... feature thing...
With the screenshot of IE7 on the linux noob site are they trying to show that they are open to linux?? "aware" of the competition they face (they're on to you)?? or subtely taunting the linux community?? Stop playing games with my mind!!!! Probably all 3, and really the screenshots suck anyway.
i just checked and the amiga didnt undraw the first window after all
It's several years and millions of dollars later.. and CrystalXP still looks better: http://crystalxp.net
A few things that strike me about the screenshots:
1. The Computer Management window has two sets of min/max/close buttons in the top right, one of which looks like Windows 95 stylee!
2. The Control Panel has a search box in the top right, straight out of Mac OS X Tiger. Or is it just the search box left over from a normal Explorer window? What does the search box do when you're looking at the Control Panel?
3. The menu bar in Internet Explorer is vertically even further from the top of the window that usual. Clearly Fitt's Law has been thrown out of the window, or maybe they really don't expect people to use the menus much anyway.
hmm...all previous screenshots of longhorn had that big old sidebar on the right hand side, which now appears to have gone. personally i'm quite happy to see it go as it seemed like a really big waste of real estate - especially considering that office xp and 2003 have task panels that take up a fair amount of horizontal real estate. i was just imagining trying to work in 1024x768...
Nice eyecandy, but no evolution (again) in usability. Same stuff as Windows 2000. Actually, eyecandy uses braincycles to process or filter out, and Windows 2000 is the better interface.
It's true, they are taking the "My" out of "My Documents" and friends. That "My" in there never looked right to me also.
Also, from the looks of that (still very ugly) command prompt in one of those shots, it looks like they're moving "Documents and Settings" to "Users." Which I think is a good idea also. 'C:\Users\(username)\Documents' is much easier to type than 'C:\Documents and Settings\(username)\My Documents.' Though '~' is still easier than both of those. ;)
http://www.apple.com/macosx/
...since Longhorn doesn't actually have any substantive improvements. About like how Office hasn't substantively changed since Office 98, as far as I can tell (but I don't use Office much).
they should release it as service pack 3 for XP.
One of the coolest sites, ever: zombo.com
nice to know i was right :)
gee, 'users'?
who else has that that i can think of... OH!
macintosh!
Is it just me or dont you get an eerie feeling that this actually is X with a VM manager that looks like windows?
Wow, I actually expected more, considering how much MS has been hyping the "new UI" of Longhorn.
In no particular order:
(1) Explorer seems to have taken a cue from PathFinder's directory browsing, a concept which has also been integrated into the GTK File Open Chooser Widget in the Linux world. Definitely a step in the right direction, but perhaps bundled up with a couple steps backward. Notice the new "My Computer", which sports all sorts of useless widgets everywhere, a mixture of task- and object-oriented interfaces, and more panes than one can possibly be expected to comprehend quickly. Typical Microsoft "toolbaritis," now applied to the file manager.
(2) Media Player continues to amaze in how far it distances itself from any UI sanity. Yet another argument for why toolkit consistency does not matter to normal users. File menu: gone, or just "annoyingly mouseover hidden"? I can only imagine what that menacing "Online Stores" button is for (can anyone say software-as-advertisement money?)
(3) Transparency: ooh, eye-candy. But wait, why does my desktop look like so many stained glass windows, who are, at the same time, light sources? Yet another Microsoft imitation gone bad. Notice how the borders of applications turn into transparent "stained glass" areas, serving to do nothing but make it more difficult to see, grab, and interact with the border of an application. For some reason, toolbar areas are also "semi-transparent," I guess just so you can make sure your graphics driver is working. Notice also how even when the eye candy features are enabled (transparent borders, shadows), Media Player refuses to comply! Stubborn lil' guy, aren't ya? heh heh.
(4) I'm utterly not surprised to see that Windows still makes use of dialogs whom cannot be resized, as in the displayed (and New) Copy Dialog. Yet another great "feature," as my 1920x1280 screen real estate can't even be utilized to show me the full directory name of a the path I'm copying from. Instead, I must make due with two halves of a path concatenated by three dots '...'
(5) Internet Explorer 7. Does this even need comment? What a UI disaster. First, the "toolbar" area is a different color than the rest of the application, which gives us some sort of Carbon/Cocoa hybrid in a single application. Then, the menubar exists below the tabs, implying that these options are on a per-tab basis, when this is clearly not the case (It's true sometimes, like in View Source or Save As, but not true others, like Work Offline or New Tab, which alter the whole application and not just a single tab).
In conclusion, Longhorn, at least from a UI innovation standpoint (but probably from others, too), looks to be the vaporware we were all expecting. Let's keep our eyes and minds pointed at where the real innovation is happening: in ANY of the alternative OSes, proprietary or Free. Maybe by the time Longhorn is released, we won't even need it anymore. We'll just send Microsoft a memo: "Dear Sirs, you can have it back."
As you suggested, they put a 2d row of min/max/imize and close button the classic style : see the computer management window on 2d sshot : http://www.networkmirror.com/JOdkEXG2eLXwsioX/www. flexbeta.net/gsurface/longhorn_5203/lh2.jpg
-- http://rzr.online.fr/
I still cannot stand that default ms typeface, Trebuchet/Verdana? maybe? For some reason, it just doesn't fit, even with anti-aliasing and everything, just plain goofy. There has to be at least one UI designer over there who needs to speak up on the sloppiness/consistency of their UI.
When I first watched the Keynote where this OS was shown live, and now looking at the screenshots, I can't help but wonder: Won't these windows be impractical and ugly when maximized? I know I tend to do nearly all of my work in maximized windows, especially web browsing, and I don't think I could take surrendering the top fifth of my screen to some blurry amalgam of my desktop and ten underlying windows, each blurring the next, while the remaining 4/5ths are opaque.
http://www.mirrordot.org/stories/38d3ca8d0f1450ecd 904cfee28fb683c/index.html
"You had this look that of an angel, it was such a bad disguise" --Dishwalla
One of the things I'm expecting from Longhorn can't be seen in screenshots.
I'd expect a significant drop in UI latency due to the new minimal standards for video hardware, much like Panther. (OS X 10.3).
(for the ones that missed that, Geforce3+ or comparative ATI required. From that, it seems that programmable T&L is what they are after)
Anybody has any hands on info? Does LH feel faster than XP?
Did you notice that in screen 4 that shows the "new" explorer you have a link to firefox "the browser that you can trust" along with a Red-Hat link?
I can't believe that such images can come from real Microsoft source, unless FF is on radar of MS future purchase list.
Well, it looks like my computer is not powerful enough to print Longhorn screenshots.
Saying that this OS will require lot of computing power is clearly an understatment.
Iraq: war to save the U
ever had to enter a serial # from an nfo file? especially for those really long ones and where the program won't allow you to copy and paste and the program screen takes the whole window.
basically what you end up doing is typing a few #s, alt tab, read the next few, and alt tab and repeat this process.
I have no clue why every other build of Longhorn warrants an entire article to display screenshots.
Screenshots have never done much for me. I would rather get an update of what will fundamentally influence buyers to upgrade to Longhorn.
It seems Longhorn changes with the wind. I guess MS is just waiting around on what industry is doing and including whatever they can before the next release. I do not see any innovation.
What will be Microsoft's marketing push for Longhorn? Will they boast 200 new features as OS X Tiger did? I really haven't noticec anything new except the transparency and the tabs in IE7.
The screenshots look decent and refreshing compared to XP but anyone can change the theme if they want something different.
I also never understand why users of Windows and Linux always complain about the default installation.
In Windows people always complain about the 'Fisher-Price' color scheme. I could understand if you didn't have the ability to modify it. (Change it, shutup)
In Linux, some people complain about the ability to play mp3 and DVDs out of the box. Take some time to understand the reasons behind this and stop trolling the various forums. Installation of this functionality is mostly trivial.
end of rant
You guys don't know if this is the real thing yet.. as someone said.. hes sure the beta isnt out yet. I don't like microsoft much either but don't jump on something untill its the finished product.
If this is what you're referring to via "drunk theme", then you'll be finding drunken behavior everywhere on some windowing systems. If it isn't, a link to the "drunk theme" would help.
Copyrights, Patents, Trademarks: temporary loans from the Public Domain, not real property ("intellectual" or otherwise)
It looks better than Windows XP, but Mac OS X blows it away. It isn't innovative though. It pretty much looks like a rehashed Windows XP with some eye candy so far. Weren't they working on some 3D user interfaces though? Perhaps the usability tests on their first attempts at a 3D UI revealed that 2D was still better. Back to the drawing boards... or is it the modeling spaces?
Microsoft is doing Longhorn right by not focusing on the UI. Most of the changes made in Longhorn are internal. Logic to handle driver failures without the bluescreens, sandboxing in kernel file system filters to stop virus scanners from crashing the OS, componentizing everything to end the days of rebooting on patches, creating a single world-wide binary, hardware support for all the PCI express features, microphone arrays, ambient light sensors, hybrid hard drives, the list goes on and on. And then you have the whole 3-D desktop compositing thing which OSX may do as well. But they don't have to deal with the fact that Windows has to contend with both D3D and OpenGL apps on the same display surfaces. Plus an utterly massive library of software and hardware to run it on. It's a really big deal. It took years to solve the problems of putting OpenGL on a D3D surface while handling the tons of pixel formats, and supporting accessbility screen readers, and working over terminal server as usual.
You will get your UI innovation in beta 2, because it's not a big priority. And when you do, you will have a completely replaced library of icons, games, and dialogs. UI can be done overnight, internal changes can't. This beta was ment for IT departments, not for consumers to scrutinize the interface.
They have all the WMA music formats for sale but itunes is missing... Didn't they already do that with netscape?
The desktop seems to have the two most used icons shown as default... and these are: ;)
Recycle Bin
(and, you guessed it) How to Report a Bug!
At least they have their priorities right.
screenshot here
It's good to see that Microsoft thinks that the most important information you need to know about a folder, thus warranting the largest font in the explorer view, is...how many items there are in that folder.
That's not plain transparency, did no one notice? There 's a smoothing filter applied to the items in the background, which allows for much more transparency to be used, without disturbing. Look at the first picture here (which is a mirror by the way) http://www.phoenixrealm.com/wp-gal/index.php?dir=. /longhorn
I share your concerns. I don't see much point in upgrading to Longhorn based on what has been promised and then subsequently taken out so that the OS can be finished "on time". As many others have pointed out, so far what we're looking at is a (n arguably) prettier skin but the same old crap underneath. There is still a gap in consistency (check out that same old monospaced font for the command prompt, or the icons in Computer Management).
It seems quite easy for the cynic to look at what they're getting and see that this product is more about raising the hardware-requirements bar so as to keep selling boxes rather than to genuinely innovate, or even, as was the case with Tiger, just iteratively improve what already exists. But then why are we surprised? This is precisely what Microsoft has been doing with their Office suite for years.
It strikes me that we're entering a very interesting time for desktop PC users. By the time Longhorn is out we should be seeing the first Intel-based Macs, and I'm sure that it won't be more than a couple of weeks before people work out a way to make a fully beige-box compatible hack to let them run a retail copy on their existing hardware. And I'm not sure Apple will do much to stop them.
I'm waiting to see just how many previously Windows-only developers start taking the Mac as a serious development target in between now and then. There has been a gradual shift in popular opinion away from Windows and towards Mac OS, thanks mostly to the lack of security / protection from spyware (by default) in the former. A combination of better support from third party developers and a poor reception to Longhorn could tip the balance away from Windows for the first time in 20 years.
So basically Longhorn is MS taking something such as geoshell and making it part of the standard install?
Did anyone else notice the
"Consider using a web browser other than Microsoft Internet Explorer and you will probably halt most of the bad stuff you could be getting..."
within the IE window?
Transparency applied to ugliness is a real progress.
at that point it was really Windows 3.1 with some GUI tweaks (still Program Manager / etc). basically looked like Windows 3.1 with Windows 95 dressing.
that's kind of what this "beta" looks like to me - same old same old with a new skin.
the difference is that they gave Windows 95 a full additional 2 years to cook - and it was a pretty impressive release at the time.
Considering the time frame - I think we're going to get just yet another beautification of the Windows 95 UI.
yawn.
They go on sticking to the bad old concepts. Desktop is the top level of namespace hierarchy, above Computer? OK is still on the left, Cancel on the right?
It's no new generation of operating systems, it's a Windows XP with a new theme and some transparency and shadows here and there.
It looks like all Microsoft's money can't buy talented people these days.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
Internet Explorer seem to be using the Firefox "Phoenity" theme, for the Back and Forward buttons.
"it seriously gave me the impression that this Longhorn thing was nothing more than a candy shell slapped on top of the same shit MS has been selling for years."
;-)
You must be new here.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
The minimize/maximize/close widgets are not tall enough. They should be square, the space below them is wasted. Also, why would you make the "close" button the biggest one ? Isn't that the one you're least likely to want to hit ? Bad habits from IE's lack of popup blocking maybe ?
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
Did anyone else notice the banner on the 3rd screenshot saying:
:X
"Want longhorn today?
Cutting-edge Web UIs,
declarative XM dev approach.
Open Source"
Using that is so 2002, I use the power button.
Shutting down is so 1999. I leave my Mac OS X up for weeks at a stretch.
Can anyone tell me how the transparent windows are different from the transparent-window-option present in today's video-cards (with the help Nvidia's NView) ?
i agree with the comments about UI optimisation, a maximised window in xp can be closed by slapping the mouse to the top right, and it wouldnt take too much effort to invisbly expand a maximised app's menubar up over the titlebar to the top of the screen too now, would it? (note: if i wanted to do everything by keyboard shortcuts i wouldn't own a mouse, now, would i?) sorry if i'm really lamely late here but perhaps the reason it's taking so long to produce this version of windows XP is that it is genuinely being written from scratch. ergo: it's not windows, it's longhorn. 100% undiluted longhorn. rendering all previous antitrust settlements null and void....
If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
It's actually a step down from XP, which I didn't think was possible. It's amazing with all Microsoft's money they can't design a better interface.
I don't see any *real* UI enhancements at all. Ok, there's a new search tool, so what? None of Window's annoying conventions have been improved. Still too cluttered... same damn tray organization problems...
vile vile vile. The transparency is headache inducing...
And how's this better-looking than XP? Cloying as Luna might be, it was a tad more consistent and less busy and distracting than this (the Luna window decorations are tacky, but considering I willingly use "Plastik" in KDE I'd still say they're almost good enough).
...I dunno. It's quite the jumble, at least at this point.
Here: Fashionably round navigation buttons clashing with tacked-on min/max/close widgets that look like they were pried off some early 90s car stereo over assorted clean and business-like panels, some of which are rather too boldly dark blue for what're essentially footnotes.
And it looks like MS is making further progress in their "hide the cold hard truth of the directory structure, but only half the time" scheme. I understand it's supposed to give you quick access to commonly used stuff but all Win95 did to me (Amiga user) at first was confuse me thoroughly. ("Control Panel" or "My Computer" aren't "folders", dammit, nor do they reside within the "Desktop" directory...). What look like blue folders in the "Administrator > Pictures" window must be different metadata-based views, or and maybe that's to do with WinFS but then haven't we had that in XP already? I remember grouping mp3s nicely by "Artist". (No ogg support, IIRC.) Maybe they've just moved that from the menu into the explorer sidebar and the common tasks into a horizontal toolbar? They couldn't have made those not look like folders, could they? Why does everything have to be so diluted? *foams at mouth*... yes, yes, I know, I probably shouldn't care about such things.
Those icons are extremely fiddly, too. What's the deal with the nearly photorealistic icons? They're supposed to be easy to recognise, and at different sizes. Any file icons that are about as tall as the font used for the filename next to them better be clean and simple. You know... like icons rather than show-offy little digital still life paintings.
Looks like the %USERPROFILE% directory has been renamed from "Documents and Settings" to "Users"? Good idea if true. Most useful feature I could glean from the screenshots. But after the "edit" session, you're still left with "ADMINI~1" in the prompt. Heh.
Some criticisms:
Why is the close box larger than the minimise and maximise/restore buttons? I can see a lot of accidental closing of windows simply by flicking up to where the buttons 'ought' to be. Why emphasise a destructive task?
In the Internet Explorer window, why are there still several different icons for a web page? The icon in the title bar is older than that in the address bar.
In Computer Management, why have the icons still not been updated to match the rest of the interface? In Windows XP, for example, there are still some folder icons (Downloaded Program Files, for example) which maintain the Windows '98/2000 appearance. This just looks sloppy.
In Internet Explorer, why are the File, Edit, etc. menues below the tabs? That makes no sense at all.
Windows Media Player. 'nuff said, really.
I think I'll stick with Mac OS X. Eye candy, stability, and complete immunity from the masses of Windows viruses/trojans/worms/spyware? Yes please.
And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
I don't know if someone saw this before, but the back and forward arrows in Longhorn are EXACTLY the same than the KDE Crystal (take a look on the comparison)e w=2&id=8341&file1=8341-1.jpg&file2=8341-2.jpg&file 3=8341-3.jpg&name=Crystal+SVG&PHPSESSID=b09161c27e 4dc69f957fca2b9ef44a81
= 213
KDE Crystal SVG look : http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?previ
(Also the replicant Plastikfox for firefox) https://addons.mozilla.org/themes/moreinfo.php?id
Longhorn long awaited innovative arrows: http://www.jcxp.net/lh_5203_shots/shots/lh11.jpg
Will MS release their skin under the GPL???
Using that is so 2002, I use the power button. And yes, Windows does shutdown correctly when I do that.
Does the reset button on the front of the case initiate an equally safe reboot or do you still need to go to the Start button?
(Assuming the box isn't completely wedged, of course)
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Finally we can see some good screenshots of Longhorn! I have some located here. Interesting to see when Longhorn comes out!
Screenshot 2: Are there any visual cues that tell which window has the focus?
Screenshot 3: Start menu bloated. More and more mouse mileage for no reason.
Screenshot 4: Inconsistent GUI: menu bar not at the top of the window.
Screenshot 5: Inconsistent GUI: surprising button order in dialogs.
Screenshot 6: More and more pixels doing less and less work: with the number of disks I have, I need to scroll "My computer" to find disk free space for all drives. Disk free space isn't shown (or is it disk size that isn't shown?)
Screenshot 7: Command prompt in the DOS window broken. In "system properties", there is a "2.00 GHz" ...what? CPU? If that is CPU
speed why doesn't it say so, and why is it listed twice?
Screenshot 8: Inconsitent window decoration: some applications have the wasteful transparent/blurred title bars, media player doesn't. Media player: more and more pixels doing less and less work.
Bottom line: more eye candy, more bloat, less usability.
You can't take a competitors recipe and hope to change it "just enough" to make it look like your own. Like recipes GUIs involve a balance.
If your making coleslaw decide to cut the amount of mayonaise in half, your probably going to want to cut back on the sugar and vinegar too, unless you want to end up with pickled vegetables instead of coleslaw. This requires understanding what makes coleslaw enjoyable. Someone who has chanced upon coleslaw for the first time and is trying to imitate _and_ tweak it, just so that it doesn't taste too much like the original, will probably end up making something entirely different.
Same goes for GUI design, you can't slap competitor's ideas in there without understanding what made original recipe great, plain and simple. Market surveys may say people are interested in a competing product X, but without an understanding of why, you can only end up with a superficial and inferior imitation.
Microsoft has accelerated what appears to be their old GUI with GPU hardware and the result looks smooth and slick, but this only makes the old thorns look more enticing. It's amazing how much they pigeon-hole into the start menu, when most of the time users go straight for "Programs". Games, Music, and Pictures? Set Program Access and Defaults? Help and Support? Computer?!?! Even Programs is not categorized in terms of user goals, or sometimes not even even by application name, but by meaningless brands.
Like a good chef, MS management needs a vision to work towards, not a mish-mash of market surveys that say what to put in next. I bet there will be a link for MS' new blogging service on the Longhorn desktop, but little UI coherency implicit in the design. That starts with the OS and extends into the applications, where accomplishing most basic user goals should be implicit in the design - that means avoiding unnecessary clutter, and sticking to things that the user will find immediately useful in a given context.
But no, not for Longhorn, which will probably be more like a french onion soup without the sweet onions to temper the hardiness of the beef - with maybe a candybar thrown in there for good measure. Edible or even not bad, but definitely lacking some things and having too much of others.
Let's hope that they do, though if the layout of this desktop is any indication, it looks like a transparency skin for Windows XP and little more.
I wonder how many of the remaining features actually are going to make any difference this time round? Will Windows die-hards have something to brag about when the version one past Longhorn comes out...hard to tell. 8 ball says 'Try again later'.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
Can I set my Windows XP / Win 2000 to use a black task bar (with white letter, important)? :-)
I will try; it seems cool.
And I will have a pre-pre-beta version of Windows Longhorn in my pc !
Firstly, although I'm a Mac OSX user, and don't even have a PC capable of running XP let alone Longhorn, I think these screenshots show that Longhorn has indeed evolved since the first screenshots came out with alpha builds last year where that huge fugly task column/widget bar thingamajig was on the right hand corner taking up almost 20% of the screen.
It seems that since then Microsoft has toned Longhorn down to better fit within an XP user's experience, so as not to overburden upgraders. This is probably fairly important for business users.
Also, I am fairly sure that the transparency seen in these screenshots of window borders is just one of many default skins available and it won't probably be the default.
I am just as sure that the weird UI glitches, such as having the menu bar under the tabs in Explorer, plus the somewhat blocky and unseeming tabs themselves are all still in beta. They will probably change before Longhorn becomes a release candidate.
Otherwise, I kind of like it. The rounded corners are smaller than those in OSX, which I find good. The Start button is now fully anti-aliased as are all the window icons in the task bar.
How it all performs is imposible to tell from screenshots of course, so time will tell.
...between their UI design team and their customer feedback team.
Oh wait, they don't have a customer feedback team...and obviously QC will sign off on anything *cough*Windowsingeneral*cough*
At the time it was an almost perfect word processor.
Simple, can do almost anything until you needed Quark like functions, almost unbloated...
I still have the floppies somewhere.
Sad it isn't supported anymore (no compatibility with the newer word...)
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Wow! Finally found a way to store fancy configuration files, yeah, text files in \etc in some wierd subdir, heh... And, linux guys wanna move away from /etc, talk about progress :-) Again an example of badly reinventing unix :-D
dam....my windows almost looks exactly the same, with some software im sure you will be able to do exactly the same effects etc. IE 7 = ie 6 with tabs, this was done years ago and somehow microsoft are just catching on. And you wonder why linux etc are getting more popular, people get bored, we want something new every now and then and giving us something that we have already seen isnt helping them. They delay, and remove features....they delay and remove features...it goes on and on, you wonder if Longhorn will actually be distinguishable (bar like...2 features) from XP. If i knew i could run every program, game and listen/watch all my music and vids properly i would change to a linux distro right now...i probably will change eventually anyway i think, and hey...its free. Why pay for something you already have...nice one microsoft, almost as good as buying claria
allmost nothing new... just a new theme and a new background...
...and that transparency... only on borders, title and menu bars...
...I could use it if it was the whole window...
Now we know that Darwin was wrong, at least about Windows.
It looks like like windows XP, with a few 'features':
1) transparency: you can't actually see the stuff behind there because it's all blured out, kind of ruin any productivity benefits.
2) the 'x' button: they should have learned from Netscape 8. It is a well known usability issue that the best place to have important buttons is in the corner. http://www.zen9361.zen.co.uk/mgs/usability.html
3) consistant gui: I won't say linux or OSX is perfect here, but Longhorn looks downright terrible.
Computer Management (image 2): combines the longhorn window buttons with the 9x style buttons (btw, what are the 9x buttons doing there anyway, is that supposed to have multiple tabs or something?)
Windows Media Player (bottom): doesn't have transparency, plus the buttons are in the old position. Seriouly what are you guys trying to do to poor grandma? I thought the WMP in XP was screwed up badly enough.
IE7: don't get me started on this one. I think the others at slashdot have already outlined why only AOL could make an uglier program.
If this is was the native microsoft apps look like what are my 3rd party XP apps going to look like!
Yeah I bet the "fully anti aliassed start button" took the better part of a year of R/D.
Why they still think that start should hold the shutdown functionality beats me !.
Great , so if I buy a PC now that needs to be upgraded later to run the final version I can enjoy the great innovation of the startbutton that does NOT look like it's drawn in paint.
What a sham.
I especially like that they provide a menu option under the File menu saying "Edit with Notepad". Does this mean that Notepad can deal with line breaks properly and show the position in the file (row and column)?
... but I hope they didnt forgot the most important screenshot (the red screen of death)... too much eye candy always must be seen with a grain of salt.
Am I the only one that bothered looking at what was running in the systray? It bothers me to find worthless stuff here. Hopefully the magnifying glass is the return of Office's findfast that I can get rid of. Also notice that there's a battery, indicating that this person has it on a laptop, not sure if that's overly interesting or not, but that appears to be why the screenshots ended (notice the battery ran low by the last shot). Now what is the horizontal rectangle with the two circles? And finally, oh no I have to deal with the stupid windows security center again.
They've never done anything that wasn't new, exciting, and innovative.
Rock on MS, keep redefining stuff maybe Webester will consult you guys before their next edition.
Anyone else notice the battery life indicator. I think longhorn is a little confussed.
Religion and politics, without the flame. godgab.org
It's hard to please all the people all the time especially if you listen to the /.'ers
Ciao
You *respect* their business tactics?
Jesus. Words fail me.
Do some reading, please.
Or here
Guys,
Microsoft has been very clear that the new UI will not be seen until Beta2 at the earliest. The current version is just for testing the platform technologies. Relax. Love it or hate it - this is not the new UI.
At least to me, there's a few rather obvious things wrong with these screenshots. Remembering that this is a beta and that this list might change, I'm just saying what is on my mind about this.
1) Take a look at the 'Computer Management' window and you begin to understand just how little has actually changed concerning the UI. It's almost like you're running it in a Windows XP emulator frame as it retains the old window controls inside the new fancy ones. Is this the way older programs will look?
2) The screenshot with the drive listing is intriguing. I like the colored progress bars representing drive space - but why is the CD-ROM in red? Because you can't write to it? Doesn't red strike you as being a color that should indicate that something is wrong?
3) The taskbar - it's soooo 1990's. What did I expect? Oh. I dunno. Maybe a better way to express when you have 5 programs open at once. Most displays today start at 1024X768. It seems to me that it should be possible to manipulate the size of the tasks listed rather than make them entirely unreadable. Minor, yes, but then this is supposed to be the 'next best thing' from MS.
I sure hope there's more to this than simply cosmetic changes. I'm trying to keep an open mind about it, but so far I have to say that 3rd party enhancements to XP seem to have more originality.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
I am buying a Mac this month.
Thx.
Ok, I'm going to start this one off with a disclaimer. Firstly, I don't hate Microsoft. I'm fairly certain that Bill Gates doesn't strangle kittens whilst inventing new and terrible ways to enslave the human race. I see Microsoft for what it is: a company. It is company whose product happens to be the most widely used operating system in the world. Therein lies my personal beef with the situation. I don't like that Windows is so prevalent. I feel that we should support Microsoft's competitors to ensure that the only way that Microsoft can stay afloat is by creating quality software.
So, what interests me about this new Windows release (don't get me wrong; I'm hooked on Slackware, I don't think I'd ever want to change) is whether or not the folks in Redmond will show innovation and dedication to making a superior product. That's what us "Linux freaks" should be "worried" about. If Microsoft ships a lemon in 200? then it's own doom will be iminent. I know they have hordes of resources and can manage to stick around for a long time, but even the tallest giant will starve to death if he can't manage to do what it takes to catch more food.
I'm excited for the next Windows release. It will define the next few years in desktop computing to be sure. It will be interesting to watch the cards unfold, and for their sake, I hope Microsoft has an ace up their sleeve.
Those screenshots are not all the things that will be in Longhorn.
Avalon and WinFS won't be there.
But what about the stability ? What about the security ? Maybe they are going to be improved, but we can't see this on screenshots.
Actually, I'm a bit disappointed with these screenshots, but screenshots doesn't show the whole new features.
Bonjour !
My Dad always used to say that to sell an old used car, all you had to do was wash and wax it and sell it to some sucker.
Microsoft gets an F on delivering the goods in the timeframe they prommised.. Cairo was supposto have most of the core features back in 1997...
And here we are waiting again..
bingo~
yours,
kbs
...you can't polish a turd, but you can apparently add transparency to it.
How come nobody told me they released OSX 10.4?
Wonder if they made a concious decision .. As in .. it looks like they made invidual windows have massive borders/edges for some reason .. like a picture frame... a transparent picture frame. I cert
All these effects, transparencies, and eye-candy "productivity" enhancers and CMD.exe is still a fixed-width black box.
With Microsoft moving heavily into scripting (via MSH and WSH) and trying to nab the system administrator crowd, why can't they make a nice aterm-like command window. Something I can resize on the fly and get a better font resolution on? I'm happy to use Cygwin Bash or MSH or SFU Korn shell, but dear god how I hate working in that little black box.
(Yes I know I can resize it in properties... But I want something I can dynamically resize aterm-like, but without having to install X and run aterm--too much damn hassle...)
You know, as an open sourcer I was a little scared after I read all the propaganda that Longhorn would actually be innovative and really hard to compete with. I was kind of worried that linux might just be blown out of the water by something so incredible that people couldn't possibly live without it.
Thanx for brining me back to reality. This is looks like the same repackaged crap. A few tweaks to xpde and a few proggies and you've got something that looks just like longhorn but blows it out of the water.
Yeah, this didn't impress me. A new icon set, a more difficult ui, and some transparent crap...
You know what did impress me though? Project LookingGlass. When I saw that my jaw dropped. That was new and innovative. But then again, that was a few years ago... yeah, call me when Microsoft comes up with something NEW.
Is it that I'm here only one who remembers that Microsoft betas of OS (especially early betas) don't look like their final versions? Just take a peak at Windows XP betas.i ew_2250.asp
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/whistler_prev
There _has_ to be other improvements than eye candy in this release. I mean, developers are usually useless when it comes to doing artsy (relatively speaking) stuff. What have they been doing all this time?
why would someone post a Longhorn beta screengrab of a desktop browsing http://anyweb.kicks-ass.net/ ??
/.
that site has an anti-IE blurb right in the screengrab! how would the latest build get to someone who seems to dislike MS so much?
and the slashdot article came from "an anonymous reader". awesome source, there,
yeah, i believe everything i read and see on the Internet...
it may be real and it may be true, but let's not simply eat up everything we see without some examination, shall we?
I thought they were like the Phoenity theme in Firefox, but you're right, its Crystal.
TSIA, don't it? It's Beta 1, folks. Take a deep breath, what you see is *not* what you'll get.
And the amazing new desktop icon "How to Report a Bug"
Okay so what innovations does the OS have? Can it prevent your PC from being hijacked or stop spam? Does it have an idiot-proof feature for viruses? These would be most welcome innovations.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
In one, the user is browsing the forums at www.linux-noob.com.
You contradict yourself. As you say, there is a correlation. An inverse one. ;)
(Ok, I'm daring a being troll here)
I don't understand why we some new Longhorn screenshots would get slashdotted? Isn't it time to move on from making fun of MS and their products?
Microsoft doesn't care about what is said here on Slashdot about the missing file system or the shinny over-the-top GUI... what it does care about is 90% (minus the pirates) of the world computer users who use it's OS and are HIGHLY likely to buy
(or upgrade to) this new OS, either in retail packaging or as part of a brand-name PC deal.
Mozilla stole tabs from NetCaptor. So what? Right?
Well, yeah, sure the yes/no and ok/cancel type of dialogs should go away. In fact I believe a simultaneous transition to sensible button labels and HIG button order (and the new looks, of course) will be a lot easier than if they were to do the transition in small steps - say, only change the button order.
There are certainly people at Microsoft who realize that the current interface is flawed in many aspects, but those who make decisions are afraid of doing something that will shy away the users and make the transition to Longhorn longer and harder. (Which is not necessarily true; seeing how Longhorn severely lacks innovation, new interface concepts could help Microsoft hype Longhorn as "the most innovative version of Windows since Windows 95" blah blah blah, you see what I mean). Maybe they're just afraid of putting their cash cows at risk.
Screen shots down.
What is the deal with all the posts about transparent windows?
I can program transparent windows using c# on my 2000 box.
Is this every window can be configured to be transparent?
What am I missing?
Longhorn screenshot previews come out and hundreds of geeks complain about the UI, before they've even tried it.
Many of these are the same guys that forget to shower and couldn't dress themselves well to save their lives.* Let's not forget all of the consistantly great UI's that come out of the OSS movement. *cough*
So how about some constructive criticism? Or waiting till it's out and trying it?
* I've go to a lot of cons. I've sat next to you. Denials will do you no good.
Get off my lawn.
One example is the image adjustments window in iPhoto. It's where you adjust brightness, contrast, levels, etc.
It's transparent and it floats. So, you can fiddle with the adjustments without obscuring the image underneath. I don't know the process behind it, but your brain multiplies out the transparency of the floating window so it doesn't represent an obstacle for making adjustments under it. You probably pick up clues from the non-overlapped parts of the image. It would be considerably useless if the entire picture were covered but it's not.
If I were sending out a 50,000 print job I wouldn't bother with this feature, but then I'd have a great big 30" LCD display with plenty of room for tools. But on a 12" iBook on vacation, this is perfect.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Where are you getting these quotes from? None of the labels are listed like that on my WinXP box.
They still can't get long directory names in the command shell. For crying out loud, all they've done is change the skin. It's all the same otherwise. Now THAT'S innovation for you.
why is the CD-ROM in red? Because you can't write to it? Doesn't red strike you as being a color that should indicate that something is wrong?
That is a terrible idea. Gray seems like a much more obvious choice, but perhaps that's just me. I wonder if there's any good human-interface text to read about designing this sort of thing.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I think you need to orientate your spelling.
It took MicroSoft nine years to ship (1993) a usable clone of Mac windows software (1984). Looks like they'll get the iMac clone software just six years later. Thats progress!
I thought it was just me! I run icewm, and have for some time because I'm terribly, terribly lazy---there's probably something better, but I prefer to not even use the menus, and launch everything from the little type-in box.
Nifty virtual desktop management, too. [Windows key]-left and right switch desktops. [Windows-key]-Shift-left and right pull the current window onto that desktop. I can rearrange my apps quickly and easily. Do newer WMs have that? I haven't used one in quite some time.
Back to the point---the whole point of the desktop is that we put things on top of it. Windows, applications, that sort of thing. Just because a destop full of icons looks nice when we start up, it doesn't mean that that should be taken as the primary use case. Sheesh...
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
As someone who would never use the default WinXP theme, I can't wait to enable the "Windows Classic Theme" on Longhorn and then have it be EXACTLY THE SAME OS as XP. Rockin'.
It's interesting to see that Longhorn does one thing that Apple don't do: allows the transparency function to take into account the values of neighbouring pixels on the lower layer (thus allowing blurring, rather than merely fading).
Of course, this takes more computation; I wonder how fast it is.
Oh great, M$ has done it again and broken some very very very very very very very very old conventional wisdom too. Think back in the mid '90s: The original GUI wars between Apple and Windows. There was a lot of debate concerning where the menus ("File > Edit > Etc") should go. Both companies took the same principle and applied it two different ways: keep the menus in a predictable location and you'll enhance the end-user experience by making the simplest and most mundane task of a gui highly efficient. Apple: "Need a menu? Go to the top-left of the GUI, always." Windows: "Need a menu? Go to the top left of the current window, always."
What the heck is M$ thinking now? "Hey, need a menu? It's more or less in the upper left area, sometimes. Just don't have too many tabs open in IE7, you'll really confuse your basic, GUI-using instincts. Oh, yeah, if a menu ain't there you can right-click or try and find that obscure little drop-down arrow thingy that we've done our best to hide until you've already found it. You'll get used to it."
Oy.
Bing!
Installed it once, played around with it a bit, didn't see the point.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Start Menu->Turn Off Computer
Then a dialog appears with the following options: Stand By or Turn Off or Restart
The Turn Off Computer option is at the very bottom of the Start menu.
A long standing bug can be seen in the Longhorn screenshots. Personally, I'd be more interested in a solid bit of engineering than yet another heap of rubbish with another irritatingly over-keen GUI.
here you can see that just executing a dos program (which cuold have been made aware of long filenames by now, but hasn't) will confuse the heck out of the poor (and I mean porr) CLI so it loses track of the "long filename" version of the working directory. I mean, how difficult can it be? On any OS I've ever used (and I've used more than a couple) the environment is inherited by child processes but *not* un-inherited at the end, so I'm frankly at a loss to know how this bug appeared in the first place. Then there's the fact that the horrendous hacky short/long filename situation was a bad idea in the first place, poorly dealt with (I can quite happily use any number of filesystems with differing ideas of valid filenames simultaneously on my linux machines, how does microsoft not get this right? Then there's the fact that, although edit has been a part of windows for around a decade of long filenames and *still* can't understand it.
I'll say it again, Microsoft, you really need to start producing some good software, rather than just polishing pap.,
Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny
PS
Have you ever seen 256-color porn! I shudder....
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
The CLI is all about function.
Anyone else notice the transparency is more than just transparency? It seems to blur the covered content for some reason. I wonder why that is?
Tho, thinking about it, it might make sense. Pure transparency can be a bit overwhelming seeing text on top of text on top of text, etc. Blurring it lets the user know there is text there, but doesn't make it an overlapping mess.
I have to assume MS has done usability testing and found the blurring effect to be helpful. Was just interesting to notice in the screenshots. I'll have to keep this in mind in my game UI design. :)
Keith
The best thing about this whole situation is that in order to see mirrored screenshots of a Microsoft one-up of another company's innovations (Apple's UI, of course) ...
I walked through two levels of Google active content ads -- a *real* innovation -- which are doubtless paying for the mirroring service.
Use some common sense people. GUI = overhead. The interface is going to make normal people more productive, but people like myself GUI gets in the way I am a Linux User and console is very productive you just have to learn to use it. You know get some technical knowledge. Stop being lazy! For example, my gf has complained about M$ being slow and crashing so I told her about Linux and she did not want to go for it because M$ is nicer looking. I also tried to take off all the bells and whistles off on the interface, but she complained it was ugly. I now realize people want eye candy not true productivity. So please stop thinking that all the additional bells and whistles M$ has added is going to make you work efficiently it is just a psychological effect of looking at a screen that is aesthetically pleasing. All in all M$ is less productive has more flaws and is only good for common people to be productive because they do not want to learn more than they have too.
Apple has one-upped the geekiness because of Exposé. It now keeps the list not by Z-order, but by which application was recently used (storing the last used window). This is way better in actual use. The Windows method gets confused when windows leap to the front, and also makes it easy to lose dialog boxes on a cluttered screen (they don't show up in the taskbar, so they are unreachable by Alt-tab).
If you want to tab through windows, use Command-` (backtick), which cycles through the current application's windows. Or... preferably use Exposé for your window switching. I have my 5th mouse button set to application-local expose. Very handy.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
WTF?!?!?!1!!One! I pushed the power button, and all the computer does is pop up this shitty window!
Honestly, I think it'd be great if the power button just turned off the computer. You know... cuz off is what you'd expect.
And it should also be noted that the issue with ACPI isn't always Windows--there are more than a few buggy implementations on MoBos, and lacpi really sucks on some processors, too (Notably, celeron).
So it looks exactly the same as XP, only more so (presumably more drilling down in control panel is required to get to anything useful).
Surely what's needed is two sets of settings - an "idiot mode" and a "non-idiot mode". By all means default to idiot mode, but at least allow a common series of changes to be made by non-idiots without having to go through lots of different areas of the system making the same changes (turn off the search puppy, search for all files not just a subset, turn on explorer details view, etc.)
Cars have a similar idea for years, allowing you to turn off ABS, ESP or whatever, if that's what you really want to do.
Linux distributions tend to provide these two levels "out of the box" because in addition to a GUI frontend you've got the config files as well - so if you want to see EXACTLY what changes have been made by an action you can.
gads, transition to a new dialoging pradigm for Bob's sake!
how about "change" "switch" "move"
i'm getting depressed...
Naw. I'd say that's BSD ;)
mean, why is it that everyone is getting so 'uptight' here about that anyhow? I don't see Linux with a DB driven filesystem either!
Honestly, I don't think that DB is the way to do it either. I find indexing (ala Tenor/Spotlight) a much better solution. Regardless of that, though--you must admit that the Windows search engine blows.
And, in a related topic: Most filesystems are, in fact, database driven. They use many of the same algorithms, provide atomic operations, and have queries (file locations). It just so happens that they don't use SQL to do it.
(Windows NT-based Os' are built to have an extensible filesystem)
May I be the first to plug Reiser 4?
However, it's obvious many here have never written code & certainly not of enterprise class size, because expecting to be able to do it in a heartbeat or miracles as others stated about doesn't happen overnight
Well, the expectation can happen overnight, but the programming certainly can't. ;)
Personally I think the current filesystem arrangement on Windows Server 2003 is just fine and it has been fine for ages. Windows Server 2003 is the core code of the next release, LongHorn, it's foundation. It is stable and solid as a rock imo. I have been using it for all of this year 2005 and much of 2004 as well. I can safely make that statement.
And you could say the same for HFS+, ext3, & reiser3. What's your point here?
However, again, the more I come to slashdot, the more it seems it is just ammo for the pro linux zealot's jihad against Microsoft with it not being in these Longhorn beta
Are you new here? I've been around for a few years now, and it's always looked this way, to me. ;)
Note: most of this made purely in jest :)
And here I was all ready to call you a karma whore... but you posted as AC. Oh, and btw, you forgot about the tpyos.
has the time, effort, skill or desire to learn a full suite of command line tools.
Unless you can fix your fridge and car, and put up your own drywall, please get off your high horse and STFU.
kthx.
to show off with - I think those colors are pretty ugly - I would of chosen something a little more neutral and appealing to everyone for showing off purposes if nothing else.
The default wallpaper for Windows XP was a grassy hillside. Now I see we're given a closeup of the grass. Isn't that worth the price of an upgrade??
Windows 98 vs. Windows 95.... We all know they improved on the OS a lot, right? Fixed stuff? Ask the typical user, they probably wondered why it was even released because "it looked the same". I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, but I think that a shiny new GUI is probably the most "important" feature to non-techie end-users, because people judge things by the difference they see. Similar to cars, it seems like the biggest difference from one model to another (I'm not an auto repair person, so I'm looking from a novice's perspective) other then maybe a bigger engine or somthing similar is the look of the car.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
I was simply clarifying what I thought the screwed-upness of it was. As I don't have 10.3 (got fed up of an annual OS tax for a machine I don't use very often) I figured someone would politely tell me if that was one of the things that got fixed in 10.3. Well, I got that half right, I guess.
And as I said:
I believe that statement to be true, regardless of whether they fixed it later. (c.f. the usual comments about MS copying Apple but screwing it up)
"This is not the beta you're looking for"
this is not the beta I'm looking for
*blink*
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"... Internet Explorer 7 and Avalon or WinFX."
Why is there an "or" in there?
I assume the submitter believe Avalon is WinFX, but Avalon is a technology to write user interfaces, while WinFX is the replacement for the Win32 API.
Also, WinFX can't be seen in a screenshot, much like coding for Posix standards can't be seen in a screenshot.
*grumble* I knew this would happen when Microsoft picked the name "WinFX"; it reminds way too much of "Windows Effects => must have something to do with the UI for regular users. WinFX stand for Windows (.NET) Framework eXtensions.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
And that's why there is a semi-annual "tax." Apple's OS gets better, faster, and gains breadth, and fixes both bugs and UI issues. Microsoft's service packs break things and frantically try and plug up security issues that have costed millions of dollars, and nothing else. SP2 damn well better be free.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
And why the fuck exactly did recycling old technology take them this long?
Well, to bake in the evil of course!
You think that stuff can just be sprayed on like Pam? It takes some time to bake it in so it can't be removed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
And I'm happy to see that cmd still doesn't show directory names properly.
That was the first thing I noticed as well. I knew the new shell was not slated for Longhorn, but can't they fix CMD even a little? That is rediculous.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...because they look like shit.
Do you all realise the saddest thing about this article and all those who have posted???
In about 3 years time(ha.. we'll see!) you will all be using this OS!
hang on... the sadest thing about that statement is that you i also will be using this OS!
Something has to be done! Its not you and I that is loosing the war to a company that refuses to inovate.. it my mum, my younger sister and my 12 year old next door neighbor.
THEY DONT CARE WHAT WE THINK!
They are happy having 98% percent of the population using their operating system because thats all they know.. thats all they've ever known.
There is only one thing that we can do. Push our families and friend onto other applications.
1) REMOVE THE IE ICON FROM THE DESKTOP
the majority of users wouldnt even know where to look for IE. Ive many times shown up to a clients house and said i have a new internet browser for you and had the reply of "but what about the internet? i cant surf it without internet explorer"
2) INSTALL SOFTWARE NOT MADE BY MICROSOFT
you ask anyone about "software" the number one response will be.. what? then you say "programs" they will reply with.. "oh! sory, like msn messenger and word?" we must show them that there are alternatives and prove to them that they "do the same thing" only better.
3)START EXPLAINING THE ADVANTAGES OF ALTERNATIVES
dont steal software... one of the reasons people use windows is because someone has given them the "free" version. show the average user how easy OSX is, that it is COMPATIBLE(oh you have no idea how many times ive heard it isnt!), show the user that there is soo much free and safe software out there, show them how fasionable these apps are and teach them to be an individual.
The only way that a multinational like microsoft will ever listen is if their quotas arent met, and you can see that with the tabbed browsing.
The only way we can make a difference is to
make sure that our workmates, family and friends are educated in their choices and not just "because every one else uses it".
we cannot be held ransom to the crowd.
This is a vital time in history towards the OS battle. Microsoft is lagging behind the competition and we must make them accountable.
- matt
(comments? matt.shadbolt@gmail.com)
that on the elliot back website with the screenshots that the 4th screenshot has a window with advertisements for both linux and firefox.
One thing IE acually does really well is.. maximize! It will fill the entire display with page content; you can turn off all the toolbars and everything to "auto-hide" and just see your content.
Maybe Microsoft's other apps will take a hint. I certainly wish all applications would have this capability, but I know that will never happen.
Still, maybe just Firefox could pick up this little trick? It'd be great...
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
I find that really funny that the first thing you can see on the desktop is a "How to report a bug" shortcut.
I guess it will be in the final release too...
PS: I'm just bitching because I am not really annoyed by bugs with XP
When will we get a vector-based Linux desktop?
They have icon themes, there's talk of Cairo, and all that Luminocity good stuff, but when, oh when, will we actually have a fully scalable desktop?
Hell, I'd be happy if I could just have a file manager, console, and calculator that were resolution-independent. How far off is that? There seems to be no central clearinghouse for this sort of information.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
What I would like to see is an "X" on the actual tab portion of the explorer window. That way you don't have to click on the tab you want, then go all the way to the top right and hit that X.
This is a deliberate design decision to prevent people from accidentally closing tabs when they meant to bring them into focus. Firefox does the same.
You should be able to close a tab without giving the window focus.
Right click, and select 'Close Tab' works in Firefox, and probably will work in the new Internet Explorer.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Longhorn cheese refers to a mild Cheddar or Colby cheese made into a long orange cylinder.
Crunch!
Based on my experience switching the family PC over to linux, I have to say creating a familiar UI with a new feature thoroughly implemented is the most important thing MS or any OSS project can shoot for.
The wife is a GUI person and as such the way she organizes tasks is by the GUI steps. Go to the start button, click, go to Internet, click on kmail.
What impresses her is the familiarity and predictable behavior. The rest just doesn't matter so much. I do side work fixing PC's and find this to be pretty common.
MS's UI is familiar and new-looking. In that sense, I think MS is doing a great job and will likely get many upgraders when it's preinstalled on a new PC.
Having just installed Suse 9.3, I'd say the familiarity and functionality is there on KDE for OSS. But there's still the media playing problem for the mass market user and there is no "killer app" to urgently drive users over to the platform.
There have been huge leaps in the linux desktop though, so I hope it will come.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
From the screenshots, Longhorn LOOKS like a good O/S, but how much stress will it put on the machine? I'd like to think I can just run out and buy it for my OptiPlex once it hits the store shelves, but I really don't know. Any beta testers here care to enlighten us as to the minimum system requirements so far? ;)
Also, will there be a Longhorn Server or will they continue the Server split that they started with XP? Not that it really matters to me in particular since I use DrangoflyBSD-powered servers, but it would be interesting to know.
I just found out about two new features in Longhorn. The first one is WinSat, a benchmark tool which can also be used to optimize game performance.
The second tool will finally take away the need to reinstall Windows from scratch when you install a new motherboard in your PC.
It's also claimed that during the beta cycle Microsoft will present some surprising new features..
How sad, considering you can already get this free utility for Win 2k/XP:
i trite/
http://home.insightbb.com/~ryanvm/tinyutilities/v
Whoever Has the Most Toys Wins!
"Perhaps true, but it does make the whole work experience more enjoyable. I use a Mac and a PC (XP). I seriously love spending time on the Mac. The XP machine is boring and dull. Does that make me more productive then? No, but I walk away from using the Mac without a headache."
Why are people so irrational? I guess that's what keeps Apple in business.
Vote for Pedro
The only difference between the UI to invoke the "Shut Down" command on Windows and the corresponding UI on Mac is that menu used to access the "Shut Down" command on Windows is indicated by Windows Icon followed by the string "start", where as on Mac the corresponding menu is indicated only by the Apple icon.
:-) (Or, you can change the "start" string to whatever you want.)
So, if it bothers you so much, just use RegEdit to remove the "start" string, then it will be just like Mac.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
so what are the system requirements for this going to be? 2 gigs of ram for unneeded/wanted services?
I love how in screenshot 3, there's a section of the webpage that says 'Consider using a browser other than Internet Explorer' and above it is a button for Firefox that says 'The Browser you can trust'
Even if they didn't take the png files straight out of Everaldo's tarballs, they're obviously ripping-off his whole style. Everything right down to the start button and taskbar are just screaming Crystal. Maybe this will finally silence all the "Linux is just a copy of M$" fanboys. It would appear the M$ is now not only copying Mac, but Linux's UI design as well.
---
The problem I'm seeing here is consistency on a different level. Sure, I have no beef with keeping things in the same PHYSICAL location - I'm talking about the UI here. The different styles clash and while perhaps not confusing, seem out of place and amateurish.
The taskbar issue is not something that can be easily solved - this is a Windows closed-source kind of thing.
I can't express it here properly, but what I'd like to see is have the taskbar maintain its same size (which is variable by the user), and have the program tasks stack vertically within it. Like this:
Program Program
Program Program
Instead of:
Program Program Program Program
In this simple way you could have twice as many tasks showing their longnames without truncation (well, beyond reasonable font limitations). This is the sort of thing I wish I could've seen. What Longhorn has shown me so far has already been done on excellent Linux distros like Linspire and Mandriva as well as Mac's OSX. Shouldn't Microsoft (and their customers) be getting that innovation MS keeps talking about?
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
It moves around!? WTF?
Sometimes the app menu is at the top of the window (computer management dialog), sometimes it's not (IE window) in those shots. Does it move position based on however much crap an application decides to put above it? Or am I forced to get used to a different position depending on the type of window I've opened?
And don't get me started on the relationship between IE's application menu and tabs! Does FILE > EXIT close the tab, the window or the application?
Blah.
When will OS makers nut up, get off the Hippie bandwagon and start calling the Trash 'Trash' again instead of 'Recycling'? We all understand the importance of our planet, but this isn't a friggin' recycling bin. You don't pull files out of the Recycling bin to repurpose.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
How will you be able to differentiate it from all the crap that's already there? *ducks*
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
Linux is just as likely to shut down, sleep or lock up when pressing the power button as windows. Crappy ACPI support is universal and is a combination of poor hardware design, and lazy programmers. This includes all you linux programmers who don't want to have the slighest bit of intelligent automation in their programs. (Like Xorg, that looks up the plug and play data for your monitor on startup then _throws it out_. LAZY LAZY LAZY!)
It's screenshots posted by someone who has obtained a beta copy of Longhorn. Nowhere is it claimed that Microsoft has released these screenshots.
That's not an innovation.
Fast-user switching is not allowed on machines on NT domains on purpose. The reason is because the security model gave certain preferences and made certain assumptions about the "console" window session which were not acceptable by beta testing system admins.
For example: If a user fast-switches away from a login session you have currently running, and is using it, if you have a remote profile then you are crippled if you try logging in a different machine (as opposed to "taking over" the existing session if you could unlock said machine). A user would then be forced to make that other user get up to log out.
There were other problems related to how the new logon screen would attempt to list remote users, handle incorrect password attempts, etc.
Basically what people knew about domain administration would be thwarted by the operation of the fast-user switching model which was designed for home users.
Windows 2003 handled a few of the problems (but it makes it irrelevant since you can remotely take over console sessions with it)... and Longhorn fixes all of them.
But you will probably need Longhorn Server to allow Longhorn clients to get on a domain and fast-user switch.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Hi there! What does your "Can someone PLEASE un-break the 2 minute gap check?" sig mean? I googled but couldn't find anything. Plus you're /. info has no links to a web page etc.
Thanks!
c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts\
Longhorn doesn't exist, they're just creating a new GUI for Linux.
"Napalm is nature's toothpaste" - Chef Brian
I find similarity with (black|flux)box very disturbing.
I see 57005 people
http://www.jcxp.net/lh_5203_shots/ :)
Just new shoes on an old whore. Is that a dos command prompt I see?
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
But being serious now, isn't there a huge community of people that will NOT run Microsoft products anymore, regardless of what kind of features/functionality/eye-candy cometh forth.
These people have switched to OS/X and/or Linux and are not looking back.
Meh.
Slashdot requires you to wait at least 2 minutes between posting, so you can't flood the system with loads of messages before others have a chance to post.
A few days ago, someone broke the logic that checks this, and now you often get a message saying you have to wait 2 minutes between posts, and it's been [something more than 2] minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
The only way to fix this appears to be to shut down your browser and come back later. It's really, really annoying if you're trying to participate in ongoing discussions.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
You are probably right. Its a fake.
In other news, Longhorn will no longer display the infamous "Blue Screen of Death" (BSoD) screen. According to a Microsoft representative, the solution was simple: "We used a different color."
Your gf is wrong. The WinHEC build is really old. Also, the screenshots from this story are for the builds that will become Beta2. Beta1 will have a 51xx build number
The UI is really not any different... if you want transparency simply buy an NVIDIA card with transparency features. A much better option and you get improved performance... I'm pretty sure ATI also has something similar.
What a freaking waste of cpu/gpu cycles.Transparency has to be the most useless feature in any OS.
Oooohhhh, Aaaaahhhhhh, look, I can make parts of my windows unreadable and unusable. This is sooooooo like way cool dudes.
Is this where innovation is now? Stupid GUI tricks that hinder fucntionality?
MS is retarded for following a stupid idea from Apples' useless feature department!
KDE/Gnome/etc, are equally guilty for the "Look, we can make our GUI useless too!"
What I want from MS is INVISIBLE Windows. Wait, I have that already. I must have turned on the "Use Invisible Windows" feature 6 years ago with that RedHat Disc.
Are coming out of the wood work for this release
of very longborn.
I love marketing,reminds me of windows 95.
You MS marketing people can't even innovate.
Die,Die,Die you fucking brain dead luzzers.
Your Truly
Linux/Mac
Anyone notice the "search the web" bar in IE7? They are burning msn search right into their client -- good luck to google, unless google can attack them on anti-trust grounds.
But the men and women in cupertino are having a party tonight. What a POS this thing is, and OS X will be even further ahead by the time Longhorn comes out. Did you notice how in IE the application menu is below the tabs? What are these stupid people thinking?
It's XP 2.0, all the features you wanted in XP that required 3rd party programs. Big fucking whoop.
I can't tell much from the screenshots, but as of whats out on that website, it just looks like another windows xp to me. I think microsofts OS developement has come to a standstill. I don't see a need to upgrade to another OS if its more bloated with visuals. I mean, its nice to see they work on the graphics, but how does that justify a purchase of over $100? If everything I use on windows XP works just fine without errors or crashing, why go to another OS? Now if i saw some more useful tools (although i don't see anything that stands out now) or faster speeds of operation, then i would upgrade. But visuals lower the speed of operation. I don't need IE7 (I use firefox);I dont need windows media player (I use winamp). What new innovations does this OS come with that I can't already do on Windows XP?
It seems to me that all we've done here is make transparent title bars and change the names of important folders. Am I missing something, or are these screenshots of windows XP changed into something that just seems to look new?
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!
Finally the gui caught up with KDE. It has only taken them 5 years! So now they have BSD's tcp stack, with a KDE look and feel. All they need is a commitment from Intel to join RIAA and the MPAA and add hardware encryption/copyright protection, then they can change the code name to Nazix (Nazi Unix) and americans will love it!!
I see a bright future for Longhorn. I will however continue to choke and spit with laughter from my subterranean Linux layer.
-essreenim
The trick is to realise that no matter how much eye candy you use, you are just staring at a flickering frame (with high enough refresh so that it tricks your mind into thinking it's not flickering ;). It's just photons of light from pixels in the end. My advice: Don't get comfortable with it. Use something darker (like black??) black means less irritation on your eyes. i.e. zero RGB. In other words, a traditional console - DOS for windows - poor (not part of MS's long range UI paradigm, OSX console - same (better but not part of their great schemes.) Linux - now you're talking. Use a low resource dependent UI in Linux if you want. Or: Even use NO UI at all. Just use a terminal!
In the time you take to arse around clicking this and that and massaging your temples because of the intense light, you could have done everything much faster with Linux (via terminal, scripts, an incredible arsenal of tools at the command line..) Then, leave your computer and try to actually talk to girls!! not just fantasize about it ...