Slashdot Mirror

I was under the impression that OpenJDK was the Sun JDK7 project.

Well, Java has Duke already. So we're at least 1/3 way there.

So, no. Unless someone takes the time to apply similar optimisations to Rhino.

But as far as a Java embedded scripting engine go, the comments for this blog about Java's new embeddable web component indicate that they are using the native webkit library (and JavaScript interpreter) underneath.

So, in theory, they could expose SquirrelFish to Java clients as a JSR 223 scripting engine. Would the performance benefits be as spectacular as claimed in this context? SquirrelFish has one set of JIT optimisations, hotspot another; the two must interact via JNI. (Significant overhead???)

Sun is also making a JWebPane which will be Java port of WebKit. First as part of JavaFX, but it will be an actual Swing component.

Seriously though... this opencable platform has some undeniable hacking potential. Replace a MythTV box with an opencable compatible media center application... in Java! Somebody should do up some perl bindings...

Java ME was open sourced shortly after SE. See the mobile and embedded community at java.net.

Java not being open source means most Linux distributions will not rely on Java applications. This means even some open source Java applications aren't in repositories. And if they are they are most likely bastardized or neglected.

With Java as open source I can see it becoming part of the base system for some Linux flavors. Especially after they add support for a wider range of languages in the JVM Davinci Machine Project. Pretty much every language will be able to run in a world class, JIT compiled JVM. You can keep your perl, python, ruby, scheme, and common lisp code. Only now it runs faster and has access to all of the Java libraries.

I imagine in the next generation Linux distribution a JVM will be open continuously. And all of the non-native code will pass through it instead of a custom built interpreter.

While core Java doesn't have a good native interface, the JNA project basically solves that:

https://jna.dev.java.net/

I've been able to "apt-get install sun-java5-jdk" for a couple of years now on Debian and Ubuntu.

And the reason for that is that Sun grants special permission to Linux and OpenSolaris distributions to do so under the DJL. From the FAQ:

What is the Operating System Distribution License for Java (a.k.a. the "Distro License for Java" or DLJ)?

The DLJ is a license created specifically for individuals and communities who want to distribute Sun's binary Java Development Kit (JDK) or Java Runtime Environment (JRE) with a Linux or OpenSolaris Operating System (OS) distribution.

See FreeBSD listed there? Have a look around the site, every single mention of operating systems permitted under this agreement is specifically scoped to Linux and OpenSolaris only. That's why Ubuntu has a head-start on FreeBSD, not because they are better at packaging.

I've been able to "apt-get install sun-java5-jdk" for a couple of years now on Debian and Ubuntu.

And the reason for that is that Sun grants special permission to Linux and OpenSolaris distributions to do so under the DJL. From the FAQ:

What is the Operating System Distribution License for Java (a.k.a. the "Distro License for Java" or DLJ)?

The DLJ is a license created specifically for individuals and communities who want to distribute Sun's binary Java Development Kit (JDK) or Java Runtime Environment (JRE) with a Linux or OpenSolaris Operating System (OS) distribution.

See FreeBSD listed there? Have a look around the site, every single mention of operating systems permitted under this agreement is specifically scoped to Linux and OpenSolaris only. That's why Ubuntu has a head-start on FreeBSD, not because they are better at packaging.

OpenSolaris, from which came features such as Dtrace and ZFS ,

OpenOffice.org,

GlassFish,

OpenSSO, or

OpenDS

(and probably several others that I missed) aren't really open source?

Thanks for enlightening me. After scratching all these projects off my list, it looks like you're right. Sun hardly open sources anything!

OpenSolaris, from which came features such as Dtrace and ZFS ,

OpenOffice.org,

GlassFish,

OpenSSO, or

OpenDS

(and probably several others that I missed) aren't really open source?

Thanks for enlightening me. After scratching all these projects off my list, it looks like you're right. Sun hardly open sources anything!

Or maybe Darkstar?

A method in a metacomputing, distributed network of utilizing remote client resources in the network, comprising:
a server that implements tasks by utilizing idle resources in multiple clients;

individual communication channels between each client and the server;
a second, dedicated IP port between each client and server, through which the server distributes the tasks to the each client downstream and through which each of the clients sends the results of the task upstream to the server.

Apparently SQL queries can also be done through FTP. http://forums.java.net/jive/message.jspa?messageID=246926#246932/

If their innovation is having my web browser run executables unrelated to the web site I am visiting, then I am just not interested.

Ruby and Erlang are the two I've spent the most time with so far. I like Ruby enough so far, that I've decided to write the initial
batch of install scripts for OpenQabal in Ruby.

Outside of that wish-list, I also harbor some vague hope of one day finding time to dabble with Forth, Fortran, Perl, and maybe Dylan.

In a surprising twist, Java applets are making a comeback: https://jdk6.dev.java.net/6uNea.html
Instant startup, improved stability and deployment. Deployment rates estimated at 85-90% of all clients.

I can see you're wholly unfamiliar with Java.

The only part of the Java API that is worse than the Apple SDK is the GUI part. If Sun completely threw out Swing and started again from scratch (or Mac Java developers used Rococoa) it would be brilliant. Java's support for everything else-- from multithreading to data structures-- makes Objective-C look like the 30-year-old grampa it is.

And Java is extremely fast-- almost certainly faster than Objective-C, which suffers from the worst of both worlds in performance: static compilation and extremely dynamic linking. These days, dynamic compilation (which has available to it runtime and usage statistics) can optimize much more efficiently than static, leading to higher performance code. And Objective-C's extreme approach to dynamic linking means almost nothing can be inlined or statically optimized across message/function boundaries.

Finally, the iPhone/Touch has some specific hardware to help make Java fast. Apple's just ignoring it. But Java on the iPhone using Apple's GUI library would be extremely cool.

Actually the reason Sun hired them is they've made a commitment to get Glassfish http://glassfish.dev.java.net/ running other higher level languages besides Ruby. So now they've got some jruby developers and jython developers. They're really trying to push their appserver platform, and with the acquisition of MySQL, they have a complete stack under their roof (SunOneWeb, Glassfish, MySQL) not to mention, OpenDS, OpenSSO, Metro, among other things.

Sun is going after the ruby and python developers because they're diversifying. Sun's biggest software competitor is IBM which directly or indirectly controls all of its products and their dependencies.

The Sun guys rewrote their plugin to operate in a separate process as you mentioned -- it's a heck of a lot faster [1]. I agree with you, however, that FireFox should really be doing this work, not each individual plugin developer.

[1] https://jdk6.dev.java.net/6uNea.html

Sun now has Orbit, which is a GUI layer atop JME (which is the mobile phone multimedia Java) that runs OpenLaszlo LZX code. Android ran around Sun to make its own JVM, Dalvik, but its DEX files directly correspond to Java bytecodes, and can be automatically generated by a tool in the Android SDK.

OpenLaszlo can also be compiled into SWF (Flash) and DHTML. But the JME itself is also included in every Blu-Ray player (now the only HD disc format) as BD-J. And JME is also the execution environment for DVB, OCAP/ACAP.

OpenLaszlo can target what looks like the most complete range of devices, all from a single codebase. Is that the future of all GUI programming as the "convergence" finally comes together? Is all other programming going to be used "under the hood" on servers, and by "plastic surgeons" tweaking all that generated code into working properly on every device it gets tested on, once it's "written once"?

And where's the OpenLaszlo GUI IDE already?

the [JVM] is fiendishly complex and unlike (eg) gcc because it is closed source

You'd also be amazed at how often the JVM crashes

the [JVM] is fiendishly complex and unlike (eg) gcc because it is closed source

You'd also be amazed at how often the JVM crashes

the [JVM] is fiendishly complex and unlike (eg) gcc because it is closed source

You'd also be amazed at how often the JVM crashes

some JSP container (tomcat? or does Sun make their own?)

The codebase? Java.

Back in the old days, Java was licensed with a scary EULA. This was fine for the end user because it was free as in beer. But it was trapped. OpenJDK is the cure. This is fine for end users and end developers. Now if a developer sees a bug (s)he'd like to fix, the license allows that.

Before Sun Microsystems released their code through OpenJDK, a rival GNU Classpath effort had been, and still is, producing a clean-room implementation. This prompted Sun to release their code under the same license in the hopes of cross-pollination.

The problem? Classpath and related projects have copyright assignment to FSF. OpenJDK requires copyright assignment to Sun. (Each, I think Sun does, may have copyright shared with the original author.)

So at the moment there's a something of a stand-off regarding this copyright. They're licensed under the same licensed but some code belongs to FSF and some belongs to Sun. So, effectively you either sell your soul to RMS or James Gosling! :) Ironic, given their bitter infamy over emacs!

Until lawyers of FSF and Sun can resolve this dispute, Classpath-derived code won't appear in OpenJDK and OpenJDK-derived code won't appear in Classpath. Third party repositories have been hosted for such hybrids. For the first scenario, IcedTea exists while for the second scenario BrandWeg has recently been announced. I quote the announcement for BrandWeg, which may be helpful in clarifying the issue:

The codebase? Java.

Back in the old days, Java was licensed with a scary EULA. This was fine for the end user because it was free as in beer. But it was trapped. OpenJDK is the cure. This is fine for end users and end developers. Now if a developer sees a bug (s)he'd like to fix, the license allows that.

Before Sun Microsystems released their code through OpenJDK, a rival GNU Classpath effort had been, and still is, producing a clean-room implementation. This prompted Sun to release their code under the same license in the hopes of cross-pollination.

The problem? Classpath and related projects have copyright assignment to FSF. OpenJDK requires copyright assignment to Sun. (Each, I think Sun does, may have copyright shared with the original author.)

So at the moment there's a something of a stand-off regarding this copyright. They're licensed under the same licensed but some code belongs to FSF and some belongs to Sun. So, effectively you either sell your soul to RMS or James Gosling! :) Ironic, given their bitter infamy over emacs!

Until lawyers of FSF and Sun can resolve this dispute, Classpath-derived code won't appear in OpenJDK and OpenJDK-derived code won't appear in Classpath. Third party repositories have been hosted for such hybrids. For the first scenario, IcedTea exists while for the second scenario BrandWeg has recently been announced. I quote the announcement for BrandWeg, which may be helpful in clarifying the issue:

A few months ago, we discussed Microsoft's intention to open source the .NET libraries.

Yes, and as one of the first posters pointed out, unlike Java for instance, this is NOT being published under an open source licence, Microsoft even says so. So why do you keep using the term?

Actually Java has NIO API for precise those reasons, to write efficient servers. Also you can look at grizzly framework https://grizzly.dev.java.net/

Not a troll.

Java has a scripting extension. No, not Javascript(only), but you can plug various Scripting languages into it, or use Judo which is the real endgame for this problem.

http://weblogs.java.net/blog/gsporar/archive/2007/02/tools_that_do_t.html http://weblogs.java.net/blog/editors/archives/2007/02/you_better_get.html

http://weblogs.java.net/blog/gsporar/archive/2007/02/tools_that_do_t.html http://weblogs.java.net/blog/editors/archives/2007/02/you_better_get.html

This is very interesting. Unfortunately, it is going to be closed-source and patented.

Does anyone know any open-source projects to do object reconstruction from video or still photographs? I'm asking because my group is building a 3D printer.
http://www.reprap.org/
(Self-link pimpage, etc. etc.)
and I think it would be cool and useful to be able to capture a 3D model from photos or video of a sculpted maquette, pet cat, broken part, human, or so on.

(I just stumbled across this by googling "gpl object reconstruction", which may be relavant):
https://ezra.dev.java.net/

People may be interested in
http://splinescan.co.uk/
which is a gpl laser scanner hardware (pen laser, prism*, webcam, and turntable) + software project to do 3D object scanning.

I'll follow comment responses to this thread, but I also welcome emails:
penguin at supermeta dot ihatespamtoo dot com

Silverlight has less chance of succeeding than applets did back in the 90s. In fact, the Applet engine has recently been overhauled in a big way making it even more competitive with Silverlight and Flash. Finally, as bad as applets are, they still have a better marketshare than Silverlight.

Here is a link to the new applet engine: https://jdk6.dev.java.net/6uNea.html
Try it out for yourself. In my experience applets are *far* more usable. They load faster and integrate more seamlessly into the website. Caveat: this release isn't public yet.

People can accept to share information publicly like movies or product rankings. This decision will move down the price of costly marketing studies and will democratize insightful information.
To balance the protection and sharing of information, more complex social networks infrastructure are required, may be projects like OpenQabal can help.

LG3D

'nuff said.

It would seem as if no none has actually bothered to read the license that Sun is using. Please note at the bottom: ""CLASSPATH" EXCEPTION TO THE GPL". That is the whole thing which is brewing here. Now check out the Java ME license and you'll see what this is all about.

Here's a better article about the same thing. I was wondering if this story was going to get picked up anywhere.

I don't think JavaME will be given away any time soon. It's going to be really interesting to see what Sun does here.

-ec

Sun has or is in the process of open-sourcing their implementations of JavaSE, JavaME and JavaEE, as well as their JVM and Java compiler.

Sun does make money licensing their Java code to third parties, but that isn't a requirement for providing Java support. The Java language specification is freely available, anybody can create their own implementation, but for most companies it is cheaper to reuse Sun's implementation than make their own. Sun even provides financial assistance for small businesses or open-source projects to take the Java compatibility test. Heck, they've even open-sources the test harness for the compatibility test.

Sun has or is in the process of open-sourcing their implementations of JavaSE, JavaME and JavaEE, as well as their JVM and Java compiler.

Sun does make money licensing their Java code to third parties, but that isn't a requirement for providing Java support. The Java language specification is freely available, anybody can create their own implementation, but for most companies it is cheaper to reuse Sun's implementation than make their own. Sun even provides financial assistance for small businesses or open-source projects to take the Java compatibility test. Heck, they've even open-sources the test harness for the compatibility test.

Sun has or is in the process of open-sourcing their implementations of JavaSE, JavaME and JavaEE, as well as their JVM and Java compiler.

Sun does make money licensing their Java code to third parties, but that isn't a requirement for providing Java support. The Java language specification is freely available, anybody can create their own implementation, but for most companies it is cheaper to reuse Sun's implementation than make their own. Sun even provides financial assistance for small businesses or open-source projects to take the Java compatibility test. Heck, they've even open-sources the test harness for the compatibility test.

Sun has or is in the process of open-sourcing their implementations of JavaSE, JavaME and JavaEE, as well as their JVM and Java compiler.

Sun does make money licensing their Java code to third parties, but that isn't a requirement for providing Java support. The Java language specification is freely available, anybody can create their own implementation, but for most companies it is cheaper to reuse Sun's implementation than make their own. Sun even provides financial assistance for small businesses or open-source projects to take the Java compatibility test. Heck, they've even open-sources the test harness for the compatibility test.

Sun has or is in the process of open-sourcing their implementations of JavaSE, JavaME and JavaEE, as well as their JVM and Java compiler.

Sun does make money licensing their Java code to third parties, but that isn't a requirement for providing Java support. The Java language specification is freely available, anybody can create their own implementation, but for most companies it is cheaper to reuse Sun's implementation than make their own. Sun even provides financial assistance for small businesses or open-source projects to take the Java compatibility test. Heck, they've even open-sources the test harness for the compatibility test.

Whoever modded him offtopic was either being childish or desperate to hide the information. Probably just a fanboy.

Reading further on this, the interesting thing about Dalvik is that it's a non-Sun-controlled JVM. The thing about JavaME (aka PhoneME) is that although it (like JavaSE and JavaEE (Glassfish)) is released under GPLv2, there is no exception clause (there is for JavaSE). This means that you can only run GPLv2 code on PhoneME. Obviously Google and it's partners didn't like this, so they wrote their own JVM. In order to avoid infringing on Sun's IP they've made the bytecode unique to Dalvik. So Java goes in ---> Dalvik bytecode comes out, runs on Dalvik. Very clever.

Yeah, most of the stuff I use still runs fine on 1.4, actually. A few things require 1.5. Nothing I've used requires 1.6 except Sun's own alpha of Project Wonderland, which is buggy as shit (as would be expected for an alpha -- it's pretty cool nonetheless).

Yes a virtual machine is a reasonable cross platform solution. The Java language and API are overly verbose and redundant in equal measure; it's COBOL redux!

At least on my linux distro, it's integrated with the standard packaging system and, for first-timers, has an installation guide complete with screenshots.

Since it's now being released under the GPL, no doubt the dialog box asking one to agree to a license will disappear.

Thats the reason because sun is working in what they call "the consumer jre", please check this pages: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/chet/archive/2007/05/consumer_jre_le.html/
and this https://jdk6.dev.java.net/6uNea.html/

Thats the reason because sun is working in what they call "the consumer jre", please check this pages: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/chet/archive/2007/05/consumer_jre_le.html/
and this https://jdk6.dev.java.net/6uNea.html/

because i can't find references on the sun & openjdk site.

Mark Reinholt (chief engineer for the java platform) blogs about it. Also the experimental Mercurial repositories are open.

Slightly offtopic, so are the JavaOne 2008 Call for Papers.