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Wow, you are TRULY batshit aren't you? here we are talking about Adobe and Linux, nobody says a damned word about Windows anything, yet it MUST be that I'm a super secret stealth ninja for MSFT just waiting to ambush your 'precious'. But hey this retailer will be more than happy to give your OS a good slapping around if it makes ya happy Alex, lets begin shall we?

Isn't it sad, how like a frightened child afraid to look under the bed, you cower at the truth? if your driver model isn't shit then why does Dell have to run their own repos even though we are talking a teeny tiny subset of hardware? Oh right because Linux shits itself and dies if you use the default repos! Man that is some excellent product you got there! you think I can get better QA than the third largest OEM on the planet? What, you expect me to tell paying customers "Go to the forum, kiss some loser ass, and maybe, just maybe, in a few days someone will have mercy and give you a big pile of bullshit that may or may not make your sound work again"?

Bleeding yet douchey? want some more? nice thing about having the truth on your side, you can keep throwing punches all day! How about how a decade old Windows beat the shit out of Linux on netbooks or how ASUS has given up on your bullshit or how about Walmart running away from linux as fast as it can? You got the crazy koolaid drunk enough to say they ALL are paid shills because they won't do your forum dance or CLI horseshit? Meanwhile your "hero" Torvalds the great says Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans!. Why don't you tell them that at work next week, see how quick you get a pink slip? More? How about you actually have the balls to celebrate getting a whole 1% market share while you are actually lower than JavaME and there is a whole website dedicated To your bullshit and excuses .

You see you whiny little delusional mama's boy, I'm your worst fucking nightmare...a retailer that still believes. I believe that the community doesn't have to take Torvalds shit sandwiches, I believe that things can be made better, I believe Linux can be something for more than douchebags like you that will happily take a cock slapping from linus as long as you can say you are sticking to "teh man". I believe that there can be Linux boxes on actual shelves and penguins on boxes.

So you go hide now mama's boy, you hide with your Tux blankie and keep saying your magical nigger nigger faggot, or should I say shill shill astroturfer, like it is a magical word that will make all the bad go away. But it won't change reality and the reality is your driver model is shit and more than 15 years behind everyone else and that is why retailers like me wouldn't piss on it, not some mythical money truck that sneaks up to my door in the middle of the night. So go compile something and leave the men to talk about the real world, okay little girl?

And for the actual Linux USERS out there, not the batshit "It is a plot by gates and the Illuminati to kill FLOSS" nutjobs like Alex? As a retailer let me say this: i like your OS, your GUI is in many ways superior to what is out there, but the driver model is shit. I don't care if you use an ABI or sacrifice Linus to Cthulu fix this one damned problem so my customers can run updates without the OS having a heart attack and hosing the drivers? i'll be happy to put Linux boxes back on the shelve

Oh sure thing, all you had to do was ask. Please note the headline which is a quote from Linus who says, and i quote "Linux not designed, never was' then he goes on to talk about it just kinda grows like a virus LOL! Now really, is that ANYWAY to treat the heart of a multibillion dollar OS that millions depend on? I think not. Linus has gotten to big for his britches and needs replaced IMHO.

And do NOT even get me started on RMS. Those pics of him posing with Chavez and Casto? All I could think of was "useful idiot". The guy came up with ONE really good idea (The GPL, which was because he got burnt on a printer driver) and now he squats at MIT (his words not mine) and thinks communist dictatorships are just great and people treat him like he's a saint? WTF? Have you seen his "computer" which he says is THE ONLY "truly free" computer on the planet? It is funky Loongson ARM netbook no longer made which he "surfs" on by using a daemon to fetch pages to his email. The OS whose biggest selling point is the net being dictated by a guy that uses an embedded toy and hasn't surfed a web page in years? WTF?

As for Windows 7 all I can say is THANK FUCKING GOD that somebody at MSFT finally got it! It is intuitive, easy for someone like my dad to use and find new features, while letting an old hand like me work faster with libraries and bread crumbs. But now you watch if they don't fire the sweaty monkey he'll come along and take a big whiz on it trying to ape Apple again with Win 8. Yeah boy I really sound like a shill calling the CEO a retarded baboon.

And I agree the "la la la everything is rainbows la la la" is a BIG problem in Linux right now. Lets be honest: The GUI is fine, graphics could use work in hardware acceleration but it is coming along, but the drivers are total shite on a crusty roll. And the sad part? It is EGO, linus' ego come and it won't go away. In 1993 when Pcs had 1Mb of RAM if you were lucky he said he didn't like ABIs and wouldn't have them. Well it has been 17 YEARS since then, and everyone and his dog and his dog's fleas has an ABI and their drivers don't break. Does Linus listen? maybe realize that what worked in 93 may not work now? NO, oh hell no, he might have to admit he is wrong!

Finally it isn't the specs, do the math: You have X number of kernel developers and those qualified to write driver code, you have Yx10,000 pieces of hardware released per year. Even if Linus didn't break drivers (fat chance there) you would never catch up with what is currently out. The math simply doesn't work. 99.995% of companies will NEVER "pull an Nvidia" and pay a whole team of developers to sit around and do nothing but fix what linus breaks, so they don't bother. with a stable ABI they could write once and it would work for a decade or more, same as the Win2K/XP driver model has lasted for nearly 14 years and the WinVista/7 driver model will be supported until 2020 at the earliest.

But when you point out that even in a perfect world the math simply don't add, what do you get? Dipshits like Alex with his "Nah Nah you must work for teh M$! Linus is a God and does no wrong! U r teh shill!" like a bunch of infants being shown their favorite toy is dirty. Well I've had enough, and so has Walmart, Best Buy, ASUS, Staples, hell I could list the companies that have offered Linux only to give up in single space and it would come out looking like War & Peace.

Did you know that Dell, even though they have but a teeny tiny subset of hardware with Linux offered, has to run their own repos because otherwise the drivers die hard? And yet when I point this out all I will get from the "community" Is "shill shill astroturfer!" while they ignore link after link showing literally hundreds of thousands harmed by this. Well if they want to act like 14 year old Halo teabaggers? fine and dandy I'm making quite a decent living selling PCs WITHOUT their product

Have you taken your meds today Alex dear? I guess not since we are talking about a SPAMMING DOMAIN where NOBODY but your crazy tinfoil hat wearing ass has mentioned ANYTHING about operating systems? Are you REALLY that fucking paranoid? Or does the thought of being next to my large southern manmeat get you so wet between your legs you gotta break out the tweezrs and hope I respond?

But don't worry my little bitch, when OS talks come around I'll be happy to point out those wonderful links that you never seem to be able to respond to, you know, the ones that make you wet yourself? Ones like...oh say Dell has to run their own repos because Linux shits itself and breaks drivers otherwise or your hero Linus, in his own words mind you, saying Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans!

So please, keep it up my little bitch. I do so love and consider it a public service to point out hypocrisy and bullshit whenever and wherever I find it. the fact that you can't even contemplate that a retailer would try your precious turd sandwich and find that it is shit? That it MUST be some right wing conspiracy involving Bill Gates and the illuminati? Just shows what a bunch of crazy fuckwits hang around the Linux "community". Oh and for those that want to see Alex here is a pretty good likeness. Enjoy!

Awww, whatsa matter girlie? Can't even find a single argument to back up your bullshit? None at all? Afraid of the truth? Scared? Crying at being shown that Tux blankie is diseased and covered in shit? Don't blame the messenger because you keep sucking on the Linus cock and then acting surprised when you're blinded by the splooge. As a public service I will again post the links, so that all can see how completely full of shit you are and how unlike you I who have the truth on my side have NO SHORTAGE of links to back my assertions up. Citations? I'll give you citations!

Isn't it sad, how like a frightened child afraid to look under the bed, you cower at the truth? if your driver model isn't shit then why does Dell have to run their own repos even though we are talking a teeny tiny subset of hardware? Oh right because Linux shits itself and dies if you use the default repos! Man that is some excellent product you got there! you think I can get better QA than the third largest OEM on the planet? What, you expect me to tell paying customers "Go to the forum, kiss some loser ass, and maybe, just maybe, in a few days someone will have mercy and give you a big pile of bullshit that may or may not make your sound work again"?

Bleeding yet douchey? want some more? nice thing about having the truth on your side, you can keep throwing punches all day! How about how a decade old Windows beat the shit out of Linux on netbooks or how ASUS has given up on your bullshit or how about Walmart running away from linux as fast as it can? You got the crazy koolaid drunk enough to say they ALL are paid shills because they won't do your forum dance or CLI horseshit? Meanwhile your "hero" Torvalds the great says Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans!. Why don't you tell them that at work next week, see how quick you get a pink slip? More? How about you actually have the balls to celebrate getting a whole 1% market share while you are actually lower than JavaME and there is a whole website dedicated To your bullshit and excuses .

So you go hide now mama's boy, you hide with your Tux blankie and keep saying your magical nigger nigger faggot, or should I say shill shill astroturfer, like it is a magical word that will make all the bad go away. But it won't change reality and the reality is your driver model is shit and more than 15 years behind everyone else and that is why retailers like me wouldn't piss on it, not some mythical money truck that sneaks up to my door in the middle of the night. So go compile something and leave the men to talk about the real world, okay little girl?

Ahhh so here we have proof that when confronted with the truth a Linux zealot can only grab his Tux blankie and scream "nigger faggot" or in Linux terms "Troll shill astroturfer." Perhaps a little more truth to choke on?

Isn't it sad, how like a frightened child afraid to look under the bed, you cower at the truth? if your driver model isn't shit then why does Dell have to run their own repos even though we are talking a teeny tiny subset of hardware? Oh right because Linux shits itself and dies if you use the default repos! Man that is some excellent product you got there! you think I can get better QA than the third largest OEM on the planet? What, you expect me to tell paying customers "Go to the forum, kiss some loser ass, and maybe, just maybe, in a few days someone will have mercy and give you a big pile of bullshit that may or may not make your sound work again"?

Bleeding yet douchey? want some more? nice thing about having the truth on your side, you can keep throwing punches all day! How about how a decade old Windows beat the shit out of Linux on netbooks or how ASUS has given up on your bullshit or how about Walmart running away from linux as fast as it can? You got the crazy koolaid drunk enough to say they ALL are paid shills because they won't do your forum dance or CLI horseshit? Meanwhile your "hero" Torvalds the great says Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans!. Why don't you tell them that at work next week, see how quick you get a pink slip? More? How about you actually have the balls to celebrate getting a whole 1% market share while you are actually lower than JavaME and there is a whole website dedicated To your bullshit and excuses .

You see you whiny little delusional mama's boy, I'm your worst fucking nightmare...a retailer that still believes. I believe that the community doesn't have to take Torvalds shit sandwiches, I believe that things can be made better, I believe Linux can be something for more than douchebags like you that will happily take a cock slapping from linus as long as you can say you are sticking to "teh man". I believe that there can be Linux boxes on actual shelves and penguins on boxes.

So you go hide now mama's boy, you hide with your Tux blankie and keep saying your magical nigger nigger faggot, or should I say shill shill astroturfer, like it is a magical word that will make all the bad go away. But it won't change reality and the reality is your driver model is shit and more than 15 years behind everyone else and that is why retailers like me wouldn't piss on it, not some mythical money truck that sneaks up to my door in the middle of the night. So go compile something and leave the men to talk about the real world, okay little girl?

Wow, you really want to suck my cock, don't you Alex? Because here we are, talking about fucking high School and the public education system, no one has mentioned Operating Systems in ANY way shape or form, yet still you follow me around like a fangirl with her panties wet. But hey, since you want to get slapped around by my large cock again, here it goes...Watch everyone, as poor Alex has NO comeback for this massive cock slapping!

Isn't it sad, how like a frightened child afraid to look under the bed, you cower at the truth? if your driver model isn't shit then why does Dell have to run their own repos even though we are talking a teeny tiny subset of hardware? Oh right because Linux shits itself and dies if you use the default repos! Man that is some excellent product you got there! you think I can get better QA than the third largest OEM on the planet? What, you expect me to tell paying customers "Go to the forum, kiss some loser ass, and maybe, just maybe, in a few days someone will have mercy and give you a big pile of bullshit that may or may not make your sound work again"?

Bleeding yet douchey? want some more? nice thing about having the truth on your side, you can keep throwing punches all day! How about how a decade old Windows beat the shit out of Linux on netbooks or how ASUS has given up on your bullshit or how about Walmart running away from linux as fast as it can? You got the crazy koolaid drunk enough to say they ALL are paid shills because they won't do your forum dance or CLI horseshit? Meanwhile your "hero" Torvalds the great says Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans!. Why don't you tell them that at work next week, see how quick you get a pink slip? More? How about you actually have the balls to celebrate getting a whole 1% market share while you are actually lower than JavaME and there is a whole website dedicated To your bullshit and excuses .

You see you whiny little delusional mama's boy, I'm your worst fucking nightmare...a retailer that still believes. I believe that the community doesn't have to take Torvalds shit sandwiches, I believe that things can be made better, I believe Linux can be something for more than douchebags like you that will happily take a cock slapping from linus as long as you can say you are sticking to "teh man". I believe that there can be Linux boxes on actual shelves and penguins on boxes.

So you go hide now mama's boy, you hide with your Tux blankie and keep saying your magical nigger nigger faggot, or should I say shill shill astroturfer, like it is a magical word that will make all the bad go away. But it won't change reality and the reality is your driver model is shit and more than 15 years behind everyone else and that is why retailers like me wouldn't piss on it, not some mythical money truck that sneaks up to my door in the middle of the night. So go compile something and leave the men to talk about the real world, okay little girl?

You are like those full retards that think the moon landing was faked, you realize this right? Where is your proof? CITATION PLEASE or go back to blowing Linus and the gang. Because unless MSFT suddenly moved their HQ to the middle of AR without telling anyone (and since it has been over 100 all week with a heat index of 106+ it sure as fuck ain't WA) then you are once again showing what a pathetic little cunt you are.

Where is your response to the links? To the retailers leaving in droves? To Linus himself? Can you not read, is that it? Is words on a page that say something other than "herp derp deh lunix is teh roxorz LOL!" more than your teeny tiny mind able to comprehend? I've actually written articles on what retailers need to sell your product, where's yours? Where have you contributed ANYTHING but mindless Linus blowing, ehh?

Kill yourself. Make this world a better place. You are alone because nobody wants you, it isn't gonna get any better, tomorrow your life will be just as empty as it is right now....kill yourself. Will your worldly goods (although what they'll want with a cardboard box and a tux blankie is beyond me) to the Linux foundation and walk in front of that train. You know you want to, you know the loneliness is eating you alive...kill yourself.

Me I have to get the beef ready for the BBQ, my sweet little half Cherokee GF has as usual invited every kinfolk she has and good BBQ takes tim to do it right. Of course you wouldn't know of such things, having never know a woman's touch or had anything other than MickeyD's. How sad, such a sad and pitiful little creature. I find that....delightful. Make the world a better place, remove yourself from it.Oh and in case you need the links again so you can cry before you get the rope, and for the elucidation of others (I know its a big word, look it up) I'll be happy to paste the paragraphs that makes you so mad, just as a special gift for the holidays.

Isn't it sad, how like a frightened child afraid to look under the bed, you cower at the truth? if your driver model isn't shit then why does Dell have to run their own repos even though we are talking a teeny tiny subset of hardware? Oh right because Linux shits itself and dies if you use the default repos! Man that is some excellent product you got there! you think I can get better QA than the third largest OEM on the planet? What, you expect me to tell paying customers "Go to the forum, kiss some loser ass, and maybe, just maybe, in a few days someone will have mercy and give you a big pile of bullshit that may or may not make your sound work again"?

Bleeding yet douchey? want some more? nice thing about having the truth on your side, you can keep throwing punches all day! How about how a decade old Windows beat the shit out of Linux on netbooks or how ASUS has given up on your bullshit or how about Walmart running away from linux as fast as it can? You got the crazy koolaid drunk enough to say they ALL are paid shills because they won't do your forum dance or CLI horseshit? Meanwhile your "hero" Torvalds the great says Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans!. Why don't you tell them that at work next week, see how quick you get a pink slip? More? How about you actually have the balls to celebrate getting a whole 1% market share while you are actually lower than JavaME and there is a whole website dedicated To your bullshit and

HAY GUYZ, its Alex again, the full retard that even after being given example after example after example of why retailers like me refuse to carry his product, or how even Torvalds the great says Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans! written in nice little words small enough for his little mind to understand all he can do is clutch his Tux blankie and go "Waah! He won't drink the kooliad! Waaah, he won't accept fucked up drivers and give them to his customers! Waahhh he must part of the global conspiracy!

.

But what can you expect from a koolaid drinking freetard, that has completely accepted the "shit sandwich" design, as in "Here is a shit sandwich and since its free you have NO RIGHT to complain about the smell! Or the taste! Errr..or the fact that its a shit sandwich!" This is why there is a whole website dedicated To his bullshit and excuses and those like them. He reminds me of a small child that sticks his fingers in his ears and goes "La la la I can't hear you" as everytime this little Lintard troll shows up following me I post link after link proving my point and ALL he can say is that I must secretly be getting giant checks from MSFT. This is why even Penny Arcade writes cartoons about him and his pals.

Want to know why retailers won't carry your product, even though it is "free" and would save us licensing fees? Feel free to look at the above links, or Lintards like Alex who REALLY doesn't help your case any with their "La la la everything works and ur a shill!" kiddie bullshit. No go compile something sonny the men are trying to talk here

Riiight. Hey douchey, citation please? Someone must have forgotten to tell me where Ballmer parked the money truck. Hell I don't even get discount licensing I buy OEM boxes off Newegg like every other system builder.

Isn't it sad, how like a frightened child afraid to look under the bed, you cower at the truth? if your driver model isn't shit then why does Dell have to run their own repos even though we are talking a teeny tiny subset of hardware? Oh right because Linus shits itself and dies if you use the default repos! Man that is some excellent product you got there! you think I can get better QA than the third largest OEM on the planet? What, you expect me to tell paying customers "Go to the forum, kiss some loser ass, and maybe, just maybe, in a few days someone will have mercy and give you a big pile of bullshit that may or may not make your sound work again"?

Bleeding yet douchey? want some more? nice thing about having the truth on your side, you can keep throwing punches all day! How about how a decade old Windows beat the shit out of Linux on netbooks or how ASUS has given up on your bullshit or how about Walamart running away from linux as fast as it can? You got the crazy koolaid drunk enough to say they ALL are paid shills because they won't do your forum dance or CLI horseshit? Meanwhile your "hero" Torvalds the great says Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans!. Why don't you tell them that at work next week, see how quick you get a pink slip? More? How about you actually have the balls to celebrate getting a whole 1% market share while you are actually lower than JavaME and there is a whole website dedicated To your bullshit and excuses .

You see you whiny little delusional mama's boy, I'm your worst fucking nightmare...a retailer that still believes. I believe that the community doesn't have to take Torvalds shit sandwiches, I believe that things can be made better, I believe Linux can be something for more than douchebags like you that will happily take a cock slapping from linus as long as you can say you are sticking to "teh man". I believe that there can be Linux boxes on actual shelves and penguins on boxes.

So you go hide now mama's boy, you hide with your Tux blankie and keep saying your magical nigger nigger faggot, or should I say shill shill astroturfer, like it is a magical word that will make all the bad go away. But it won't change reality and the reality is your driver model is shit and more than 15 years behind everyone else and that is why retailers like me wouldn't piss on it, not some mythical money truck that sneaks up to my door in the middle of the night. So go compile something and leave the men to talk about the real world, okay little girl?

RMS is not all of GNU, so here is his personal thoughts on the matter

Richard Stallman: What about them? The programmers writing non-free software? They are doing something antisocial. They should get some other job.

Any more questions?

Yes, there was one other question: (JA is the interviewer)

JA: Such as?

Richard Stallman: There are thousands of different jobs people can have in society without developing non-free software. You can even be a programmer. Most paid programmers are developing custom software--only a small fraction are developing non-free software. The small fraction of proprietary software jobs are not hard to avoid

Also from the same source you can figure out that the man is totally ignorant of the way economy functions, of what the sound monetary and economic policy should be (free market capitalism):

JA: You mean what if all the programming jobs were outsourced to foreign countries?

Richard Stallman: Yes, what if they all go? This may actually happen. When you start thinking about things like total levels of employment, you've got think about all the factors that affect it, not blame it all on one factor. The cause of unemployment is not someone or society deciding that software should be free. The cause of the problem is largely economic policies designed to benefit only the rich. Such as driving wages down.

- clearly RMS is a Marxist in his overall thinking, but MAYBE he can actually learn something about this topic if he only had an opportunity to, but he never had that opportunity.

'Driving down wages' is not a goal in itself. Wages are often not the most significant cost to the business. The most significant cost is corporate and payroll and medical and other taxes and various governmental regulations, that are normally designed to reduce and destroy competition and to provide the politicians with a large chunk of the monopoly money.

As to 'driving down wages' - I will argue that it is part of the thinking for a business, but in absence of government destroying free market, this part of the thinking would be very constraint, as competition would be very high without government involvement and without inflation that government causes by printing money. The companies would not get as large as they get when there is a government around, that is willing and insisting in participating in the business via various schemes - taxes, subsidies, regulations, etc. Also while wages may be going down in more developed countries if businesses move out of them, they increase in less developed countries, where businesses enter the economy and start producing and hiring there. But to be able to benefit from such a move, the business needs to have some economy of scale and very good protection against competition in the former place of business, which comes from good ties with the government, who wants the control over the business and cash flow.

You know, it's no coincidence that we're having all this outsourcing. That was carefully planned. International treaties were designed to make this happen so that people's wages would be reduced.

- again, this was done because the government is large and distorts the economic forces in the first place. The large corporations that benefit from the treaties certainly get various help from many governments of the world, who control their competition, reduce their taxes, making them very difficult to compete with, while raising regulations, which affects the starting businesses dis-proportionately, because they do not have such economies of scale and cannot really afford 10 more compliance officers in the company.

JA: Can you cite specific examples?

Richard Stallman: FTAA. The World Trade Organization. NAFTA. These treaties are designed to reduce wages by making it easy for a company to say to various countries, "which of you will let us pay people the least? That's were we're headed." And if any country starts having a somewhat increased standard of living, companies say "oh, this is a bad labor climate here. You're not making a good climate for business. All the business is going to go away. You better make sure that people get paid less. You're following a foolish policy arranging for workers of your country to be paid more. You've got to make sure that your workers are the lowest paid anywhere in the world, then we'll come back. Otherwise we're all going to run away and punish you."

- the problem with RMS, is that he sees the government as the force, that MUST be in business of setting economic and

RMS is not all of GNU, so here is his personal thoughts on the matter

Richard Stallman: What about them? The programmers writing non-free software? They are doing something antisocial. They should get some other job.

Any more questions?

I've been using Linux for 5+ years with no data loss, but maybe it was more problematic before then, I don't know. Ext3 was standard by the time I switched over. As to why Linux has its own filesystems, there's actually a much more reasonable explanation for that than NIH syndrome. Besides, that accusation doesn't make sense when every other popular OS also has its own filesystem. It's not like they're deliberately avoiding a standard. Which other incompatible FS are they supposed to be compatible with?

I'm tired of this sad trolling. GPL advocates never complain about the BSD license. It's only BSD advocates that complain about the GPL. You know what? Just because you want to use other people's code without having to respect their conditions doesn't give you the grounds to demean the GPL, dude.

Actually some GPL types don't respect the wishes of others as well, or possibly legal obligations.

Regarding the actions by some GPL types who take dual licensed code and remove the non-GPL license in an attempt to make the code GPL only:
http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/openbsd-misc/2007/9/1/153822

Like what EXT 2? Like that doesn't break. And frankly why should they? It is a free market, you are free to pay the RAND license or walk away. You see THIS is what I find hilariously about the "community" in that while they talk about unity and other crap they will happily fuck each other for a buck and they'll do so even when it slits their own throat!

Did you know nearly two thirds of Linux servers are running CentOS over RHEL? Did you know CentOS was created by a leech company that sold hardware that required RHEL but didn't want to have to shell a dime to RH? Do you see the community calling them out? Nope instead you see them trumpeting CentOS because they are at heart cheap bastards that don't care they are shitting in their own backyard! Who do you think gives back more code than all the others combined? Who do you think has to hire less coders and give back less code because of leeches like CentOS?

So please, continue shooting yourselves in the face. There is nothing I hate more than hypocrites and the "community" has the hypocrisy so thick you can cut it with a chainsaw. The "community" says open up your code and we'll buy and support you! So AMD does what is asked and everywhere you recommend Nvidia who fucks their customers, drops support for anything more than a generation or two old, and who won't give you access to shit! You say you'll support those that support the community yet on every damned forum you push CentOS like there is no tomorrow! Oh the hypocrisy is so thick and rich!

Hell I could go on all damned day with instance after instance of stupidity, greed, and just outright religious zealotry and egoism fucking the community, all the way up to the top with Linus" Plans? What are those?" Torvalds refusing to allow a stable ABI, which would make it trivial for all the hardware OEMs to support you, because it would keep him from getting a wild hair and going Goatse on the kernel anytime he pleases. Even the argument so frequently posted here against it is religious, with the writer going so far as to accuse those that don't give their code as GPL "leeches" and hoping Torvalds next Goatse kills the drivers, even though that is hurting the very users you want to attract.

So please,keep up the hypocrisy. Keep up with "free as in cheapskate above all!" and saying one thing and doing the opposite, please do. Because companies and orgs are getting tired of "update foo broke my drivers" so much that fully two thirds of new SERVERS sold come with Windows, and by refusing to pay even a single cent for a RAND license for anything nearly every new flash that I come across is formatted in NTFS.

You refuse to play nice with others, you have arrogance that would make Jobs blush and without the numbers to back it up, and you expect the world to give you everything for free. So frankly you really shouldn't be surprised your numbers are currently flatline globally and in Europe which so many touted as the next growth market for Linux. Hell last I checked JavaME was beating you! So please, keep it up. I do so love watching hypocrisy and arrogance get its comeuppance!

I don't want to be a troll but seriously what is this 1998? At least they'll have cloud computing I guess...

October 3, 2002: NetBSD: i386 -current Adds SMP Support

Not that long time ago..

And Linux Is Not UniX.

Funny you should say that, because there's a post from Linus Torvalds on kerneltrap.org in which he says that that Linux is Unix. Unfortunately, the entire kerneltrap.org site seems to be down right now, but if it ever comes back up you can find his post here: http://kerneltrap.org/node/11

What Linus actually said in that thread was: "the design of UNIX made a scaffolding for the system".

To be honest, "Linux" just means "Linus's Unix clone". But I prefer my interpretation, don't you think it's clever?

Over time, Linux has evolved from "close enough to run most oldtime Unix programs" to obeying Posix/SUS really pedantically closely. You could say "Linux is not Unix[tm] but it is Posix". And then a lot more of course.

And Linux Is Not UniX.

Funny you should say that, because there's a post from Linus Torvalds on kerneltrap.org in which he says that that Linux is Unix. Unfortunately, the entire kerneltrap.org site seems to be down right now, but if it ever comes back up you can find his post here: http://kerneltrap.org/node/11

Riiight, you want to know the REAL reason why Linux doesn't have (and never will have) a Netflix client? Two reasons: #1 No kernel level DRM is allowed, ala Janus which is supported by both MSFT and Apple and which IIRC Netflix uses, and #2 because you have Linus "We don't need no steenkin plans!" Torvalds going Goatse on the kernel whenever he gets a bug up his ass.

So that means you either hand out your code, which in the case of Netflix would have a "Razr1911 fuck teh man LOL!" edition less than a week later, or they "pull an Nvidia" and pay a whole team of developers round the clock to deal with everytime Torvalds breaks every damed thing with one of his wild hairs.

Free as in freedom has a price my friend, and as long as you have the one two punch of no kernel DRM and Linus "Plans? What are they?" Torvalds you can give it up on ever getting Netflix. But cheer up, maybe Torvalds will retire and then you get someone to actually run it like a multimillion dollar project (can you imagine going to YOUR boss and saying "we don't need no plans!" on a multimillion dollar project? Can you say fired?) and then instead of having to keep a development team you'll actually have "write once, use for years" like Apple and MSFT (and Solaris, and BSD, and OS fricking 2) have had for over a decade.

Oh and BTW, before anyone brings up the LinuxTM "StableKernelABINonsense" you might want to actually look up the post against a stable ABI and you will see that is was/is completely POLITICAL in nature. The author went so far as to actually call anyone who doesn't have all their code over to the tender mercy of the kernel devs "leeches" and hoped their devices were Goatse'd quickly. Meanwhile Linux has yet another "killer app" that it can't use while its competitors CAN. How many honestly think you are gonna get any of those people to switch to Linux now?

Oh I'm not saying you can't do it, it just seems like a hell of a lot of work for very little gain. Personally I wouldn't wish Windows Vista on my worst enemy (although win 7 is quite nice, as is XP without the crapware) but the problem is unless you are an uber geek laptops are a mess and frankly the odds they'll even get 40% of them running stable is a big question mark.

Plus this is probably THE absolute WORST time in history to be working on the things, as we are talking a HUGE fundamental shift in the way they are designed is going on right NOW this very second. Within less than a year CPU+GPU will be replaced by APU which means that unless you are running old crap its back to the drawing board. Oh and it'll be even MORE of a PITA, thanks to the APUs containing proprietary code for HDMI so that will all have to be reverse engineered.

I'm just saying unless someone can bitch slap Linus "Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans!" Torvalds so he'll stop going Goatse on the kernel things will be hard enough without trying to hit a moving target with a live bumblebee, which is what laptops are in the current state. A wise engineer took one look at the guts of one and said "designed for the dump" and he is right, inside the things are a mess. and as I said you can't even buy by model number and be sure it will work, thanks to them playing chipset roulette with anything and everything.

I just don't see how some guy in his basement, I don't care if he is frickin Einstein, is supposed to keep up with Torvalds AND all the new chipsets AND all the proprietary firmware AND the hardware roulette AND the constant breakage every time the distro gets a bug up their ass to change something fundamental. If you just wanted to say "if you run it on this it is strictly for hobbyist fun" I'd agree with you, but with so many FOSS evangelists saying "Linux is ready to go!" using it on laptops will just turn more people off.

So if you can make it go more power to you, but I tried it on four bog standard laptops that came through the shop and frankly i spent more time trying to get the damned hardware to work than I did using the damned things. In the end it was simply easier to reinstall Windows than deal with the BS, and I have a feeling until things settle down on the laptop front like they have on desktop most folks are gonna have the same experience. At least with Windows you have drivers for all the hardware, and no spending hours on forums looking for CLI fixes.

Oh and FYI you don't actually have to track down drivers anymore, Windows Update takes care of that for you. I've even had it find the funky USB TV Tuner drivers which frankly I never thought I'd see the day. I'm still waiting for Linux to have a "find me a damned driver!" button, like has been in windows for ages. Is it really so much to ask for?

So PJ is your sacred cow, is she? Even if she is wrong she is right? We have a description of that, it is called fanaticism and I would argue it is one of the fundamental failings of the Linux community, in that Linus himself can basically Goatse you and admits in his own words there is NO plan for the kernel (which is why your drivers break constantly, and if YOU tried that shit on a million dollar project you would be FIRED) and yet the community just bends over and says "please sir, may I have another?"

But if you are a thinking individual and not a slobbering fanatic, see for yourself. type in "groklaw Psystar" and see for your self. And isn't it funny how guys like you can ONLY attack the messenger and NOT the message? While I give PJ credit for SCO I'm also not so blinded by fanboyism that I think she walks on water or can't be full of shit now. Go on read it, then you come back here and tell me with a straight face you believe Psystar was secretly "being bankrolled by the evil M$ to kill the GPL". Because THAT is what PJ was trying to sell, and if you believe that I have some tasty koolaid for you.

As for what I've done? I'm a thinking individual that can read and doesn't stick my fingers in my ears and go "la la la" when someone points out a sacred cow has gone from just reporting facts to pure paranoia, which is sadly more than I can say for YOU. And if you TRULY believe that MSFT would waste time with some rinky dinky Hackentosh outfit so that OSX could be made CHEAPER for the masses, thus helping kill Windows on the low end? Well then all I have to say is, to quote an old joke, here's your sign.

You call HIM a troll and then follow it up with a mountain of FUD? I fix Windows 6 days a week and haven't seen a non hardware BSOD in YEARS. Viruses? The users install over 90% of them so how can anyone blame Windows for that. Gonna set them up in a walled garden and take away their choices? Having choice means having the ability to be an idiot too you know.

Meanwhile you say they'll have "a thousand times better than Mac OS X or Microsoft Windows."? Can I have some of what you're smoking? It must be some good shit. I have 7 year old XP installs in the field, never needed squat as far as work. Have you had more than a single upgrade deathmarch (thank Canonical for that) where drivers didn't shit themselves? How much time did you spend in CLI in the past 6 months? Once a day? Weekly? If the answer is I used CLI at all you have failed because consumers ain't touching that 70s era term shit.

So keep spreading the FUD friend. BTW you DO know accounts are free right? I'm sure I'll get the usual Linux TMs from Linux TM repository, such as "WorksForMe(TM)" and "StableABINonsense(TM)" which BTW if you read the argument AGAINST ABIs? It is totally political, with the writer going so far as to call those that refuse to give 100% of the drivers to the devs "leeches".

When your head of kernel development says, "The Linux kernel isn't designed, it grows like a virus" You know you are in serious fucking trouble. yeah Linus it is called an STD and would get your ass FIRED anywhere else. Can you imagine going to YOUR BOSS on a million dollar project and saying "Plan? We don't need no steenkin plan, we gonna grow like a virus LOL!"? Hell even OS fricking 2 has a stable ABI for the love of Pete!

The part that pisses me off as a retailer is the community could change it if they would quit accepting the shit sandwiches and DEMAND better. DEMAND that Linus quit acting like a douche, pick a gameplan and STICK TO IT, DEMAND that the 6 month deathmarch be replaced with a solid plan for fixing bugs, DEMAND that developers quit rushing out one buggy release after another, in short do what others would do by voting with their dollars.

Because frankly if you don't the ONLY places Linux is gonna be successful is those where there simply isn't any real money to be made by the big boys. As it is a full 2/3rds of servers being sold right now are being sold with...dum dum dum...Windows, and no unlike desktop one does NOT buy a Windows server to put Linux on, the new mobile devices like pads are being dominated by...dum dum dum...Apple, which have gotten "it just works" and intuitiveness down to an art, seriously wake up man. it isn't 1997 anymore, 70s era term shit and spend time trawling forums for fixes has got to DIAF if you want to compete. This is said as someone who would love to have your product on my shelves if I could get the damned thing to run for longer than a single update without dropping to CLI and forums just to get the drivers fixed.

I put the FACT in front to separate points, as making lists in /. comments is kinda hit or miss right now in my version of Chromium and since anyone that doesn't suck down the kool aid will be labeled a 'ShillTrollAstroturfer(TM)" I might as well point out that most FOSSie bullshit is INDEED bullshit. And I noticed you STILL haven't answered the main question: What are you doing wrong, that your competitors doing right?

Because if you were actually correct and "ItWorksForMe(TM)" applied to more than just you then why has every B&M and OEM ran away from your product like it is the black death? I'll tell you why because your driver model is a picture of a turd with "Fix it yourself LOL!" written underneath. here try to defend the words of Linus Torvalds himself where he says there is NO PLAN for the kernel and he just "lets it grow like a virus". Yeah Linus its called an STD and that kind of Mickey Mouse shit would get you FIRED anywhere else. Can you imagine telling your boss on a multimillion dollar project "Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans! We gonna let it grow like teh clap LOL!"

And let me see if I have your complaint correct: You use an OS which everyone acknowledges is broken which even Ballmer himself said was "a mistake" at one of his speeches, use an even more broken OEM disc filled with trialware garbage, which BTW it is trivial to turn into a "good" (which is a relative term with Vista, aka "WinMe Part Deux") DVD with VLite or any number of freeware tools, and THEN you bitch it doesn't work?

Well I could use a FOSSie meme and say "ItWorksForMe(TM)" but instead I'll just point out you are using an abandoned OS that NO major OEM is putting on their devices now, that most retailers (myself included) wouldn't take a crate of if you gave it to us for free, and which will NEVER be fixed. Throw away WinME II and get Win 7 and you'll have a beautiful experience. Besides isn't that what FOSSies do on the "BiannualDeathMarch(TM)" with Ubuntu?

But its okay, you just keep right on believing there is nothing wrong, and that myself and millions of other B&M stores are avoiding your product because its a "Conspiracy(TM)" while Ignoring the fact that if your product actually worked on bigger than basement scale retailers could increase profits by not having to shell out for Windows licenses, and in the cutthroat world of PCs any money saved would make us better at competing.

You just ignore that Walmart, Staples, Best Buy, hell even little shops like myself have found your product to be a fiddly little bitch, or that I can provide link after link after link showing retailers RUNNING AWAY and users simply not touching it (Be sure to notice in the last link how JAVA ME is actually kicking your ass LOL!) but hey, those are just numbers right?

But I would point out this final bit of wisdom: If your product costs $0, and would save both the B&Ms and OEMs significant money by adopting, yet they refuse to take it over competitors that cost a minimum $100 and $700 respectfully? Then something IS rotten in Denmark friend. If your shit didn't stink then everyone in the business wouldn't be treating it like a turd in the urinal, and going out of their way to avoid it so.

Sadly Jizzbug I don't know if they are "geniuses" so much as giant assholes. I mean read this little bit from old Torvalds himself where he admits there is NO plans for the kernel, instead he does whatever he feels like and lets it "grow like a virus".

Yeah Linus that would be an STD, and Mickey Mouse shit like that would leave you FIRED with a capital F anywhere else. is it any wonder the damned drivers are constantly breaking? Can you imagine telling your boss "Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans! We gonna let it grow like teh clap LOL!".

You should check out Linux TMs where former Linux users like myself created a site to document all the total bullshit that serves for answers in the "community" such as "WorksForMe (TM)" and "ItsEasyToChangeIt(TM)" (yeah like we are all software developers with infinite time to learn somebody else's code habits).

As for KDE and Gnome? I agree they seem to be on a race to see which one can beat Vista in the bloat race, which is kinda funny since Vista got a giant DO NOT WANT attached to it and MSFT lowered the reqs for 7. I know that when Gnome Shell reached beta so he could try it Glenn, my old Linux admin buddy, finally gave up on Linux for his desktop and bought a Macbook. He said while he'll keep using it for servers the desktop is just too much of a fractured mess and that the Mac "just works". So if their goal is to get more Linux guys using Apple? Congrats, its working like a charm fellas.

Want to know what's funny? he did exactly what I'd said they'd do and went straight to the memes. in this case it is the classic "ChangingThe GoalPosts (TM)" in that he had ZERO to argue my points with so he completely changes the subject to kernel exploits, which is also covered in "LinuxIsJustTheKernel(TM)" .

Now whether the FOSSies (which I use to separate FOSS users from Zealots, FOSSies are like Moonies in that EVERYTHING IS PERFECT and anybody that points out their BS is a "ShillAstroturferTroll(TM)". Now whether the FOSSie wants to believe it or not post SP2 with a decent free AV like Avast or Comodo CIS (both of which use heuristics and sandboxing by default) both of which are 100% free, then it is pretty damned hard to infect windows without the user helping the bug along. This is why we have seen post XP that malware is increasingly going the Trojan route, see fake AV and "Porn Codec.exe" for examples.

And notice he was VERY careful not to say a word about the Linux driver model, the most broken ass POS teabagged pile of garbage every foisted off onto man. And no wonder it is garbage when the controller of the kernel writes, and I quote" The kernel isn't designed, it grows like a virus" (yeah Linus, its called an STD and your ass would be FIRED for that Mickey Mouse shit anywhere else).

The simple fact is Linux had its shot during the XP pre SP2 and Vista era, and it blew it. They didn't fix the mess, instead just piling more broken releases atop a broken driver model and ended up a broken POS. They will put up with that in the server dept because MSFT server licensing is frankly a clusterfuck from hell, so putting up with the BS of Linux is cheaper than hiring a lawyer to read a MSFT server EULA.

But in the desktop, of which we speak? Things have never been better in Windows land, sorry. Windows 7 is trivial to lock down, trivial to admin, trivial to get hardware for, trivial for even the most clueless to keep safe thanks to low rights mode and users no longer EVER having admin rights (even when you run as admin you are really a power user with admin reserved for SYSTEM).

So why does Windows still get bugs? Three words: Third Parties and PEBKAC. Third parties keep MSFT from packing anything more powerful than Windows Defender in by default because both the OEMs and bunches like Symantec make a killing on trialware, which thankfully windows security will now flag if you don't keep up to date, and PEBKAC because the malware writers learned long ago it is easier to break a system if the user helps you.

I had a beautiful secure machine I sold last week, the customer just paid me to clean it, so what happened? He refused to listen to me or the AV which practically threw itself in front of him trying to stop him (he uninstalled it to get it to "shut up") and then he proceeded to install a bunch of dodgy shit like Limewire and then was amazed when I ran my LiveCd and showed him he was infected all to hell.

Now how are you gonna blame MSFT for that? The guy IGNORED all warnings, disabled AV, and WENT OUT OF HIS WAY to install dodgy shit. And you know what? That is how a good 90%+ of the infections I see cross my desk. The rest are old crap like Adobe or those that turn off updates because they are running "hot windows" and naturally get pwned. Shock shock, running hot software gotten off dodgy warez sites isn't safe. color me surprised!

And for you "Linux advocates" out there? FIX YOUR BROKED ASS SHIT and we retailers will be HAPPY to carry your product! Do you think we LIKE buying Windows licenses? We do so because YOUR SHIT DON"T WORK because your drivers might as well come with the Goatse image for a logo, since they are gonna shit all over themselves come first update! BTW did you know Dell, on of the largest retailers ON THE PLANET can't even use your default repos? Do you know why? It is because if you update ANY Dell linux offering with the default repos it breaks sound and networking! FIX YOUR BROKED ASS SHIT and then we'll talk, otherwise you are just blowing smoke up our collective asses and calling it perfume.

Your product is a complete and total failure, except in those areas a corporation can fuck you hard (and then you thank them for the surprise buttsex) thanks to the TiVo trick, ala damned near every router and other CCC (Cheapo Chinese Crap) and you are so far behind you actually reach 1% and cheer (and it only took 18 years! Wow!).

Meanwhile consumers run away from your product as fast as they can, and tell you in giant letters DO NOT WANT even on products designed around your strengths, and retailers look at you like the black death thanks to all the returns and broken drivers, oh and your great leader says the kernel isn't designed, it grows like a virus LOL! (Yeah Linus, it would be called an STD) and you know what is amazing and sad?

NEVER, not fucking ONCE, does it enter your tiny little mind to even ask the most basic of econ 101 questions, such as "What is my competitors doing right that I'm doing wrong?" Nope, because that would mean admitting your shit sandwich OF FREEDOM was a festering turd, which BTW? It is. Instead you scream shill or astroturfer, which is your version of nigger or spic, for anyone who doesn't suck down the kool aid and wash it down with a heaping dose of RMS cock slobber.

And the part you'll NEVER believe, because it would shatter your tiny little worldview, hiding in your mom's basement eating your Cheetos and thinking if it wasn't for that evil M$ army the world would embrace your precious shit sandwich like the force you love so much? Well guess what sparky, I'm not a shill NOR an astroturfer, I'm in fact a retailer. You know, that group that you constantly whine would carry your shit sandwiches on their shelves? yeah that bunch. And you know WHY we won't carry your rotting bag o' fail? It isn't a conspiracy BTW, it is because we tried your product and we know your lies are just that, LIES.

I tried for nearly FOUR YEARS to find ONE DSITRO, just one mind you, that wouldn't fall apart like a house of old cards when a fat guy farts, just one that would continue to run consistently after updating. Just one mind you? How many did I find? ZERO.Zilch nada squat bumpkiss. Your driver model is a drawing of a pile of shit with "do it yourself LOL!" written underneath, your idea of having software tied to the kernel is frankly laughable if it wasn't so pathetic, your package managers are just band aids on bullet wounds trying to cover up the dependency hell that hangs over everything you do like the Sword of Damocles, shall I go on? Your lack of a stable ABI, which BTW Apple, MSFT, BSD, Solaris, hell even OS fricking 2 has had for like a decade now, means that shopping for devices that will actually work is a game of "hardware roulette" that is more rigged against the consumer than anything in Vegas...

Hell I could do this all day, but why bother. It is like pushing a retard into traffic. Sure it is easy because they are so fucking stupid, but not much in the way of entertainment value, not when I have dozens of top notch AAA games I could be playing, or Netflix, or WMC, or hell washing my socks would be more entertaining than dealing with a FOSSie. BTW do us both a favor before you open your cake hole and check on Linux TM Repo before you chime in, as the horseshit you and the other FOSSies spew has been done so damned many times TM repo actually has all your bullet points down as TMs. Hell I bet whatever you come back with I can match one for one with TMs, such as WorksFo

And they sure as hell don't give their friends Linux, not as long as MR "the kernel isn't designed, it grows like a virus LOL!" Linus Torvalds is in control, so your point is....you should spend $4000 to buy them Macbooks?

If I'm coming off as STFU for the I apologize, I want them to spew the crazy as it will hopefully help to root it out! One of the sites I contribute to is "Linuxinsider' and you should really go there sometime, while there are many that are normal it quickly becomes apparent that the F/OSS movement is being taken over by the loonies.

I'm serious on the amount of religious crazy here, it is LONG past fanboi crap. I've had guys with a straight face write that Linux 6 month updates don't break drivers which ANYBODY that has actually used that OS knows that is bullshit, it is like saying you can run the XP updates without a reboot! And when you point out the miles of "update foo broke my driver" on the Ubuntu forums what do they say? Do they admit you may have a point, that things could be better? Nope they accuse those posts of being shills and you of being a shill for ever pointing it out!

And it is THAT, that right there, that seriously pisses me off. Linux COULD be better, it COULD be right up there with OSX SL and Win 7 but for something to get better you have to identify problems and fix them not scream and throw rocks at those that dare point them out! A perfect example of the batshit is the Linux TM called "Voldemort". I swear to fricking God there are guys all over the place that refuse to even say the word MSFT like it is a God damned curse or something. Look up Pogson on LinuxInsider for an example, but we got plenty of those here too.

So after fighting with Linux from Ubuntu 6 through Ubuntu 10 trying my damnedest to make the thing work like the zealots claimed (and getting told the Linux TM "You should use DistroX" when I pointed out the broken shit) I've decided to make it my solemn duty to point out the loonies, be they users or developers in the hope I can make things better because shit never changes as long as you let the loonies rule, as the loonies think it is perfect no matter what! And it has worked in the past, look at Vista, everyone had a screaming fit about how shit it was so MSFT made a better OS in the form of Win 7.

It CAN be done, it CAN get better, but ONLY by holding developers like Linus to better standards and not kissing their asses (I mean for God's sake the man brags about having no plan and letting the kernel grow like a virus and NOBODY calls him on it?) and by getting rid of the loonies who worship them and tell them their shit don't stink. And I'd do the same to a WinLoonie, a MacLoonie, and a LinLoonie, the only reason I've singled out the LinLoonies is they are getting seriously thick around here and their crazy seems to be a level above the rest.

But thank you for your post, I was starting to think I was the only sane person in crazy town. Nice to know somebody else has seen the loonie toonie batshit nuts that seems to be spreading like the clap. I mean how can anyone take Linux seriously whe you come up with names like "The Gimp" and then on top of it have the brass balls to claim a half ass editor without even CMYK support is "superior" to PhotoShop? It is crazy like THAT that needs nipped in the bud if Linux is to ever get ahead!

Oh please! It is elitist smug ass developer bullshit and you KNOW it! If it was "marketing gold" your ass wouldn't be lower than fricking Win2K on the usage scale, now would you? I mean when you fricking have to brag you got 1% (woo hoo, we're really cooking now!) you should SERIOUSLY be asking yourselves "What am I doing wrong that my competitors are doing right?"

But of course THAT will never happen, because then you'd have to get off your smug ass high horse and admit you have some serious problems here, the elitist bullshit just one problem among many. I mean when the head of your core development team, Mr Linus Torvalds himself, admits "Linux isn't designed, it grows like a virus" yeah its called the clap, I mean WTF? No wonder your damned drivers break every damned upgrade with this clown running the show! Can you imagine going to your boss on a lead project and telling him "We don't need a plan, it'll just grow like a virus LOL!"? Enjoy your firing.

Get rid of the ass clowns like Torvalds, hire some damned marketing people and STOP NAMING THINGS STUPID SHIT and maybe you'd have a shot. Because nobody is gonna take the FLOSS seriously with all these fucked up names,same as nobody will take FLOSS as a desktop seriously until the 6 month update death march stops breaking half the drivers every damned time!

I mean seriously fellas, it isn't 1987 you know, time to stop acting like fools and get your shit together. Hell even OS/2 has a stable driver ABI now, and the dumbass names just make you look Mickey Mouse, or should I say GNUMouse? You better get it together quick, as iOS is a fricking Juggernaut and Win 7 is kicking royally on the desktop. All that leaves is Android which Google is about to royally screw you out of by "TiVo tricking" it away, thanks to them making DAMNED SURE they don't touch any GPL V3, so all that leaves is cheap web hosts and HPCs, not exactly high growth markets.

But hey, if you enjoy being dead last that is your business, but don't say you weren't warned. You may think those fucked up names are cute but the rest of the world just thinks your weird and avoids you.

Ubuntu 10 new enough for you? I'm so sick of this "He tried Linux 10 years ago" bullshit where you FOSSies stick your damned head in the sand and pretend your asses don't stink. You want to know why Linux suck massive amounts of ass, do you? I'll be happy to tell you it is because Linus is a massive douche who won't allow you to have what everyone else from Windows, BSD, hell even OS/2 has had for a fricking decade, and that is a stable driver abi.

Want to know what happens when you upgrade (which you fucking have to do thanks to the 6 month death march)your lovely Linux? Oh look half my damned drivers don't work now and the ONLY way to fix it is 5 hours in the God Damned CLI which frankly needs to DIAF. Don't even compare yourselves to Windows and Apple because between Win 7 and OSX SL you guys are MAYBE at Win95 levels. And Wine? Yeah because the average user knows how to spend 4 hours fucking with funky CLI to get their apps to work, only to have it shit itself and die when the death march breaks everything again.

Linux is a great SERVER OS but as a desktop it is ass, and it is ass because the head of the thing is an asshole. Don't believe me, take it from the mouth of the man himself who says "Linux isn't designed, it grows like a virus " LOL, you have the fricking main developer who admits there is NO plan and shit just grows like a fungus, and you wonder why drivers don't work? Well fricking duh!. Link is here read it yourself. His excuse, which is just like an asshole in that it stinks, is that it would lock down the kernel, aka he wouldn't be able to break shit anytime he had an itch. Well fuck you Linus, you are holding the world back and need a good firing. The reason why sites like this exist is because all the excuses fanbois have to come up with to cover douchebags like Linus keeping Linux down.

So do us all a favor and don't bring up your hobbyist crapfest when we grownups are talking Windows or OSX, okay? Your shitty backwards ass design makes it a perfect example of developer hostility, with ZERO backwards compatibility, even for the fucking drivers, and CLI is a damned God to you people. It is the most backwards ass fucked up POS I've ever had the displeasure of touching, and it is about as ready for the public as dropping them all in Plan 9 and expecting them to do everything with a 70s era term (You can stick your CLI BTW, as the public has already said in 50 foot letters DO NOT WANT).

And I got news for you sparky, the ONLY reason why Linux has a hold in servers is the fact that Windows CALs are a damned mess. If MSFT was to drop them to a simple $1 a slot Linux would dry up and blow away like a fart in the breeze. Even my old CLI head admins admit that the new WinServer is a fucking cakewalk to manage and the crazy price of CALs keeps them away. So any market you have there is just a gift from the MSFT middle management, sorry. Embedded you kick MSFT's ass, as they don't do tiny anything.

But until you fire that douche Torvalds and get a real designer in there and make it so I NEVER have to deal with CLI and NEVER will my customers have to deal with same? It is a giant DO NOT WANT. Frankly there is a good reason why even with a price of nothing it has gone nowhere, and that is because free shit is still shit.

• -anything that was written with Linux in mind (whether it then _also_ works on other operating systems or not) is clearly partially a derived work.
• -anything that has knowledge of and plays with fundamental internal Linux behaviour is clearly a derived work. If you need to muck around with core code, you're derived, no question about it.

Historically, there's been things like the original Andrew filesystem module: a standard filesystem that really wasn't written for Linux in the first place, and just implements a UNIX filesystem. Is that derived just because it got ported to Linux that had a reasonably similar VFS interface to what other UNIXes did? Personally, I didn't feel that I could make that judgment call. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but it clearly is a gray area.

Basically if your program couldn't exist without GPLd code, then it is definitely a derived work, no matter how it is linked. It would be hard to make the case that dynamically linking, or even statically linking if you didn't distribute it, to a GPLd C standard library is a derivative work of that GPLd library.

To shamelessly rip off an old joke saying you are "the number 2 Unix variant" like that is a good thing is like saying "Well my horse doesn't eat much at all...now that its dead".

I mean I'm sure the C64 guys can brag they "are the number 1 Commodore computer" but that really ain't saying much anymore, now is it? Not when your competitors (which despite what many FOSSies claim yes, you are in competition) are numbering something like 800 MILLION for Windows and probably close to 100 MILLION for OSX.

Look, as a retailer I want Linux to succeed, I really do. I remember the good old days of Atari and Commodore and how new ideas were popping up all over the place, and that doesn't even bring in the fact I believe in free market competition being good for everyone and having a lower cost "third way" would help me reduce my costs while still remaining legal (sadly many shops just use pirated Windows, which makes it hard in a recession for legit shops like mine to compete with their unfair advantage).

But the difference between me and a FOSSie is that even though I'm a computer nerd I spend my days with the common man and therefor have unique insight which the average CS nerd FOSSie simply doesn't have.

And I can tell you this with 100% honesty, without trying to be mean or piss you or anyone off (notice how I got modded down without a SINGLE response? Could it be they had NO rebuttal and could only get mad at being told the truth?) that in its current incarnation while Linux is just hunky dory for webservers and embedded devices, both of which have highly trained CS grads to write programs and admin them, as a desktop for the common man LINUX SUCKS with a capital S!

Now why does it suck? Lets start with the guy at the top, old Linus himself. While myself and other have been begging for a proper driver ABI (which FYI ALL the major OSes, BSD, Solaris, OSX,, hell even OS/2 have had since the dawn of time) if you read Linus's arguments it basically comes down to "I don't like them because it limits me fucking with the kernel later on". Which coming from a man who actually admits that the way he does things is that Linux isn't designed, it grows like a virus which of course is a REALLY shitty way to develop an OS since without a plan shit breaking is naturally the order of the day.

And it is THIS, the shit constantly breaking, drivers that work in foo not working in foo+1 without jumping through major hoops, 6 month releases that break more than they fix, no QA at all to where even Dell has to run their own repos just to keep from having their Ubuntu install from being bricked the first time the user updates, hell I could go on all day.

If you actually want to compete, if you actually want Linux to be something more than an OS for webservers and basement nerds, then the community needs to ask itself "what are we doing wrong, and what is the other guy doing right?" which guys like me in the trenches will be happy to tell you. With Windows you are looking at nearly a decade (since they tie both the home and pro versions together so patches for one work on the other) where a machine will be updated without it breaking. Apps work for years and years (thus no need to retrain) and CLI on both Windows and OSX is nonexistent Now is the time a FOSSie will point to Powershell, while they conveniently ignore that Powershell is a server technology and that a home user will NEVER see a CLI, not even once.

All I want is a little honesty Mr FOSSie, is that too much to ask? If you like things the way they are, if you don't want to change to gain users, fine, I'm really happy for you and wish you nothing but the best. But please, don't delude yourself into thinking that Linux in its common form is in any way usable by your non CS grad common man. He has NO desire to learn your ways, he has NO desire to learn arcane Bash commands, he has NO desire to trawl forums because

First of all, let me make this clear: nobody cares about the hardware because unless it is a multi-thousand dollar piece of equipment like a laser cutter it just gets shitcanned after 3 years anyway, same as nearly noone buys Windows retail they get it with a new box, next!

Second, again another bullshit logical fallacy Linux guys continue to pull, so please pay attention: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE DESKTOP: not the God damned server! Jesus, why is it Linux guys gotta bring in server into a totally unrelated conversation? Is it because they know it is the only place where it actually functions (and that is due to crazy hoop jumping by server hardware and software vendors to keep up with Linus twiddling with shit). It is like saying "I have a toaster!" when we are talking about truck design. I mean seriously WTF?

Now back to the subject at hand which is THE DESKTOP, and not cell phones, servers, embedded, or your toaster, the simple fact is that I have no trouble running decade old software on the latest and greatest. After installing Win 7 x64 for a ton of clients I ran into ONE app (a PITA version of QuickBooks) that refused to run, installed XP Mode and Tada! It "just works". Can you do that with even a 2 year old app? With Linux if the vendor doesn't jump through the hoops because Linus like twiddling with kernel guts you are well and truly fucked end of story.

To me Linux is a perfect example of why collaboration over the Internet just doesn't work, and this has NOTHING to do with FOSS, because from what I understand it isn't that way in BSD which is FOSS, nor is it this way in Solaris, where in both an app written years ago still "just works" and new apps will still run on the old.

With Linux instead of a cohesive vision and solid plans you have 50 million reinventing the wheel, 50 million little fiefdoms with bad attitudes and BOFH, and 50 million guys that don't care if they fuck everyone else up as long as THEIR itch is scratched, see Linus and his kernel twiddling as an example. Hell the man even says as a boast that Linus has NEVER been designed, it grows like a virus. Right, good plan there Linus, don't design squat just scratch your itches and let it grow like a fungus LOL!

So go ahead and waste modpoints while burying your collective heads in the sand, go ahead and call me names like shill and astroturfer, all for daring to point out your emperor is naked as a jay bird, it won't make 1+1=3 nor will it change reality. Reality is there is a damned good reason why Linux is at 1% and stagnant and it isn't a "conspiracy" and it isn't that people haven't tried, as Walmart and Best Buy and ASUS have all done. Nope it is because Linux is currently a fucking mess and anyone who dares to ask it be fixed is attacked by the mass of koolaid drinkers and zealots that treat it as a religion.

Constant driver breakage, the total mess that is audio with Pulse and ALSA and "update foo broke my" which leaves the user with a labyrinth of forums to navigate that if they are VERY lucky will give them some mess of CLI that A.-They are supposed to be able to understand well enough to "tweak" and B.-Be able to apply with making a single mistake for risk of boning the machine. And this isn't even bringing up my point that God help you if you base anything mission critical ON THE DESKTOP because it is just a mess.

So don't blame me that your OS has had FIFTEEN YEARS and gone exactly nowhere on the desktop. The only places it has gained is where a corp has been willing to either jump through the hoops (like in server, where Windows CALs make jumping through the hoops worthwhile) or in Embedded where they can just "TiVo trick" and only have to support a single device. But on the desktop it is frankly a mess and just isn't getting better, if anything its getting worse. Hell look at what EVERY Linux users trots out when someone says "Linux is too much of a PITA"? UBUNTU! Yes lets take the noob and stick him on an OS so bleeding edge the CD has stigmata, yeah, that's the ticket!

The point is that the opportunity exists to take someone else's code, modify it, sell it, and never contribute back or tell your users what has changed, because this is permitted by the BSD-family licenses.

It seems GPL enthusiasts have committed similar offenses and have taken from a community without giving back to that community. "Leeching" as you might say. One key BSD developer writes:
"GPL fans said the great problem we would face is that companies would take our BSD code, modify it, and not give back. Nope -- the great problem we face is that people would wrap the GPL around our code, and lock us out in the same way that these supposed companies would lock us out. Just like the Linux community, we have many companies giving us code back, all the time. But once the code is GPL'd, we cannot get it back. Ironic."
http://kerneltrap.org/OpenBSD/Stealing_Versus_Sharing_Code

Arguing against this is analogous to arguing against a law forbidding murder (or theft, etc.) because hardly anyone does it anyway.

Careful, you are dangerously close to demagoguery with a comparison to murder. A manipulative appeal to emotions not logic. Regarding "theft", I think *many* people around here would disagree if they were honest and applied their music sharing / RIAA arguments - basically there is no theft since no one was deprived of their property. A more appropriate analogy would be a law enforcing the 10% tithing to the poor that many churches recommend. OK, not a perfect analogy but certainly better than murder and theft. :-)

Lets say your company adopts a BSD project and a GPL project..... The difference is that on the GPL you can only keep the code in house if you do not want to give out improvements. BSD? Rip, sell, earn money, do not contribute back. Or... at the least you can do that. Which does not help the community.

Well for a limited definition of "helping the community". GPL'd projects have directly benefitted by incorporating BSD code and indirectly benefitted from the knowledge and experience of UC Berkeley's pioneering work in developing a *truly* free and open UNIX implementation. Apple, Sun, SGI and other have advanced the world of computing using BSD based code *and* they have also given back in various ways *including* giving code to the community. For example Apple HFS, which I believe has been incorporated into FreeBSD. And some have argued that some GPL folks take without giving back. One key BSD developer writes:
"GPL fans said the great problem we would face is that companies would take our BSD code, modify it, and not give back. Nope -- the great problem we face is that people would wrap the GPL around our code, and lock us out in the same way that these supposed companies would lock us out. Just like the Linux community, we have many companies giving us code back, all the time. But once the code is GPL'd, we cannot get it back. Ironic."
http://kerneltrap.org/OpenBSD/Stealing_Versus_Sharing_Code

Basically I'm saying that the meme that GPL gives back and BSD does not is false. Things are far more complicated than that.

I actually did think for myself when I rejected GOTO.

Did you reject GOTO as a way to forever avoid writing anything in assembly?

I actually went back and read the "GOTO considered harmful" essay.

Yeah, Dijkstra was *pissed* that Wirth changed the title. -- You know, because it misrepresents the content of the letter. (letter with original title)

Can you provide an example of when goto is appropriate -- in particular, when it's appropriate to use a goto rather than actually structured programming, or even a safer option like break, return, or throw?

Why, Yes, I can. How about an example from the Linux kernel which is very well defended by Linus Torvalds? Good enough for you?

Hi, Mr Coward, or may I call you cow? You see Cow, some of us are willing to stand by our words instead of being little trolls hiding behind AC, and I'll even be happy to retort.

What your little "We have no choice! Waaah!" speech seems to forget is over and over the public has been GIVEN the Linux choice and thanks to decisions by the Linux devs that makes the AI in an EA game look like Stephen Hawking it has been rejected by the masses by a long shot. Walmart, Best Buy, MSI, all have sold Linux machines to the public at one time, and what did they get? An 80%+ return rate. Now I don't know if you have ever sold machines at retail like I have (doubtful) but allow me to point out that those figures mean that they lost money on 8 out of every 10 sales since those units will now have to be sold as used or refurb by state law.

But what do you expect from an OS whose leader says Linux isn't designed but instead "evolves like a virus" LOL, while sites are happy to point out what needs to be fixed, as well as guys like me, but instead will be responded to with "shill! MSFT lackey! All must love teh goodness!" like a typical nutter. Hell the fanboi bullshit is so thick in Linux land they actually have a site dedicated to listing all the different ways Linux fans spout total bullshit, instead of...ohh I don't know....actually listening to users?

Finally think about this...your old pal hairyfeet is gonna give you an example of why your OS is so low on the totem pole you brag when you reach 1% like it is an actual achievement. But of course I'm sure after a really big swig of FOSSie koolaid you'll find a way to label it a shill, or not reality, or some other BS. Be sure to pick the right TM from TM repo so we can know which BS you intend to use, okay? Here goes:

Here we have two OSes, the latest Ubuntu and Windows 7: Here is the installation of Windows 7...stick in DVD, answer three questions, the hardest of which is "are you at home or at work?" (for the network settings) and at first boot the OS will check if there is anything without drivers and pop up a little box that says "Hey, I don't have a driver for this, can I go and fetch one for you?" and if you say yes and the device is less than 5 years old (the majority of consumer gear) it WILL find a driver, install it, and off you go. It will even point out you don't have an AV and give you a page with several free ones to choose from. Hell my 67 year old dad installed Windows 7 by himself, and he still can't figure out how to work his cell phone.

Now let us compare Ubuntu, the flagship for "Linux for humans" and the supposedly easy (to the point fanbois call it dumbed down) Linux, ready? Install OS, get asked a half a dozen questions, although to be fair it is getting better in that regard. Upon first startup OS will NOT tell you if anything doesn't work because of drivers, you have to figure that out yourself. Is there a "find drivers" button, like Windows has had since 2000? Nope, because lack of a hardware ABI means that shit that worked in Ubuntu 9 will NOT work in Ubuntu 10, lovely. So AFTER you find where the fuck the version of device manager is you have to go trawl some forum (which NO user is likely to find easily since nobody puts a fucking button to it anywhere) looking for "fixes" which require you to know which firmware/hardware rev you had (yeah, good fucking luck on a user knowing THAT) and then "tweak said fix" because it was written for firmware A rev b and you have firmware d rev f (again good fucking luck). Follow that by using an interface called Bash that looks like a 1979 reject without autocomplete or spellc

Wow, google is hard. Let me help you with that.

Here and Here.

You can see here that it was assigned more than 2 weeks before it was disclosed and started to be patched.

...this isn't the first time that a core part of an OS has been backdoored (at least, almost) http://kerneltrap.org/node/1584

You won't believe how many GOTOs I see regularly in our C/C++ sources :(

Come now, we don't know if this is good or bad until we see the "GOTO" macro!

On a more serious note, goto's for local jumps can often lead to cleaner code. I use goto whenever I see fit and I'm not polite when someone blindly parroting a 40 year old essay challenges me on it.

You're an idiot. Note, I'm not dismissing your argument because I believe you to be an idiot, just noting that you appear to be an idiot as a consequence.

There is NOT 100% disclosure with Linux. That, put simply, is bullshit.

What they actually state is that disclosure of security bugs should be mostly avoided so they can treat bugs as they want to, without being pressured by an exploit. No where do they state that all bugs are treated equally. So, here we have bugs that allow to compromise not being disclosed and maybe not being patched for a month(just like the last big Linux vulnerability).

On the Microsoft side we have people contacting microsoft, microsoft working on a fix and then publically releasing a patch. That's how proper full disclosure works, kiddo.

Since The Linux devs would rather rely on security through obscurity, you have to rely on sites like xorl.wordpress.com or read bugtraq and hope that someone has a patch before the next kernel release. I'll give the point that at least people can patch it themselves if they need to.

Also, you have to stop with the Linux is more secure because of the many eyes bullshit. Just because everyone can read the code does not mean they are, and you still have the same small number of developers, most of which are not actively looking for security problems.

I really hope you try and look this stuff up, because your ignorance hurts, and I hate to think you will be spreading misinformation to other people.

That article is about Wine gaming specific benchmarks, where as a wider range of benchmarks showed SD was superior. Cherry picking one benchmark doesn't prove that Linus was right.

For one, Linus argued that one use case shouldn't be focused on, but rather the wide range of uses for the kernel. So why cherry pick one use-case?

Secondly, Linus argued for three years that Linux didn't need a new scheduler at all, and that Con's approach was completely wrong.

Even Ingo admitted his CFS was based on SD's principle and was largely inspired by it. The fact that CFS performed vastly better than the previous scheduler actually proved Con was right and that Linus was wrong in arguing for no new scheduler.

http://kerneltrap.org/flames

Linus justifies the decision not to go with SD saying Con was argumentative and wouldn't support his patches. Con had been supporting and improving them for three years. I emailed him personally and got support. He answered questions on the LKML and on his own mailing list. He listened to criticism and constantly improved his patches for years.

Linus not only made his decision on personality rather than code, he did so by making up lies about Con as a person.

Face it. It was a dick move. And up to that point, I was a big Linus fan.

It's been fairly well documented but you still seem to ignore the reality of what happened.

http://kerneltrap.org/node/14008

Read all that then tell me that Linus has an ego here. It seems to me that Linus is the only level headed guy and you're just trying to distort what really happened.

- He choose CFS over SD because SD behaviour was inconstant among users' computers
- Con would argue with people sending him problems rather then accept them as problems with his code
- Linus didn't want code in the kernel that would only work well for certain users
- Linus didn't want code maintained by someone that was so hostile to others' critique
- Linus states that he believes the desktop is an important platform

Please point out where Linus flamed Con..

Also Linus was right in the end..

http://kerneltrap.org/node/14023

when the kernel accesses the slow disk, it is aggressive in trying to cache the read. if there's free memory this is obviously the correct thing to do, since if the memory is needed the cache can be dropped. but if memory is full, the kernel needs to decide whether to drop some file cache, or swap out a process. the default settings tend to favor disk cache, meaning every time you try to access anything on the desktop, the application has been swapped out and it has to wait for disk access to swap back in (often several seconds on my machine)

setting /proc/sys/vm/swappiness to a low value, eg 0, tells the kernel to favor processes at the expense of caching disk reads. this helps a lot in keeping the desktop snappy. kernel trap has a good summary of the issue and the developers motivations

swappiness doesn't help with applications that want to access a file repeatedly, but rely on the disk cache instead of an internal cache. eg, an IDE might have 10 source files in tabs, but instead of keeping the files in memory, it could just reread them each time a tab is switched. as long as the file remains in cache, this works fine. but when you copy a huge file, the source file gets dropped from cache, and the tab takes forever to refresh

not sure if there's an easy way for the kernel to know the difference between an application just copying a file, and actually reading it. but if there is, it would make sense to favor reads

Wasting mod points without having the BALLS to actually debate me, or is it you simply don't have a way to refute A SINGLE POINT I've made? How about instead of trying to hide me for pointing out the emperor has no clothes, you try to actually debate? Well here it is again, enjoy!

Actually I would say with the KDE interface Linux is every bit as nice as the Windows desktop, to some maybe even better. That ain't the problem, it is when stuff goes wrong that is the problem. Let me give an example that is a pretty everyday thing: No driver. In Windows 7 you can just right click in device manager and pick "update driver", that is of course if you get that far, because most of the time Action Center will pop up and say "Hey, did you know you don't have a driver for foo? Want me to find one for you?" and if it is under 4 years old odds are it will. Under 3 years old and it is pretty much 100%.

Now compare to Linux: No driver? Spend lots of time in Google, if you are lucky you find the right forum (this is written from a new user perspective, which is what you'd have if it actually started gaining share) and ask for help. Most likely get called a noob or talked down to like a child if you don't know the EXACT hardware model, make, and rev, which frankly I can't name that off on half the hardware in mine and I built the damned thing, I doubt a home user would have a clue. Get given a bunch of CLI commands, which the user will probably fuck up, to find out the above, and then be given yet ANOTHER set of CLI commands, that frankly I've found rarely work unless you "tweak" them for the specific hardware, which again, the odds a home user could do this? About zero. Then add in the "update foo broke my hardware" fun of not having a stable hardware ABI and the kernel constantly be tweaked by Linus (who says Linux is not designed, but evolves like a virus) and like most of the kernel guys doesn't care about desktop user)and I'm afraid you have a trainwreck.

The best thing for Linux desktop adoption would be to fork the kernel AWAY from Linus and the other kernel server devs, add a stable hardware ABI and desktop enhancements, and make desktop and server two separate products.

As for TFA, might work for SMBs, won't work for home user. They really should have come up with a replacement for Works for low end and OEM. Now that slot will be taken by Open Office if this whole LibreOffice/Open Office forking mess don't kill things, which just shows lack of any forward thinking in the company.

Actually I would say with the KDE interface Linux is every bit as nice as the Windows desktop, to some maybe even better. That ain't the problem hoss, it is when stuff goes wrong that is the problem. Let me give an example that is a pretty everyday thing: No driver. In Windows 7 you can just right click in device manager and pick "update driver", that is of course if you get that far, because most of the time Action Center will pop up and say "Hey, did you know you don't have a driver for foo? Want me to find one for you?" and if it is under 4 years old odds are it will. Under 3 years old and it is pretty much 100%.

Now compare to Linux: No driver? Spend lots of time in Google, if you are lucky you find the right forum (this is written from a new user perspective, which is what you'd have if it actually started gaining share) and ask for help. Most likely get called a noob or talked down to like a child if you don't know the EXACT hardware model, make, and rev, which frankly I can't name that off on half the hardware in mine and I built the damned thing, I doubt a home user would have a clue. Get given a bunch of CLI commands, which the user will probably fuck up, to find out the above, and then be given yet ANOTHER set of CLI commands, that frankly I've found rarely work unless you "tweak" them for the specific hardware, which again, the odds a home user could do this? About zero. Then add in the "update foo broke my hardware" fun of not having a stable hardware ABI and the kernel constantly be tweaked by Linus (who says Linux is not designed, but evolves like a virus) and like most of the kernel guys doesn't care about desktop user )and I'm afraid you have a trainwreck. The best thing for Linux desktop adoption would be to fork the kernel AWAY from Linus and the other kernel server devs, add a stable hardware ABI and desktop enhancements, and make desktop and server two separate products.

As for TFA, might work for SMBs, won't work for home user. They really should have come up with a replacement for Works for low end and OEM. Now that slot will be taken by Open Office if this whole LibreOffice/Open Office forking mess don't kill things, which just shows lack of any forward thinking in the company.

Yeah no shit. You know why I call them FLOSSies? And for the mods: Do you push FLOSS even when it makes NO sense for the situation? Do you believe the ONLY software that should be allowed has to have "the four freedoms"? if not, you are NOT a FLOSSie, you are a FLOSS user, there is a difference. I call them FLOSSies because any talking to them while using logic is like arguing religion with those that believe the world is 6000 years old. The amount of logic hoop jumping they'll go through to ensure the answer is ALWAYS 'Use FLOSS" is so incredible that any attempt at intelligent conversation is a waste of breath.

I'm personally sick and tired of /. groupthink and have enough karma so as not to give a shit, so I call it like I see it and here are some facts for FLOSSies: FACT- Linux does NOT run on anything, okay? Have fun with that Broadcom modem? How about that Aetheros chipset everyone told you to buy, that worked before but don't now? Linux works good on SERVERS because those corps will jump through hoops and put up with Linus's bullshit (BTW did you know that Linus says Linux isn't designed, it "grows like a virus"? Yeah, THAT GUY is the one you need making important decisions on the way the kernel supports users. See this article on how the bad attitude and bullshit of kernel developers being paid by SERVER COMPANIES make Linux desktops suck) but those same OEMs aren't gonna waste time hoop jumping for a desktop.

FACT TWO: Linux is NOT A DESKTOP OS full stop. See the second link above for what happens when someone tries to submit patches that would give you a decent desktop experience. What happens? He gets cock blocked by the kernel developers who are paid by server companies and only give a shit about SERVER benchmarks and I/O performance. And THAT is why you get the "fun" of video/audio glitches, the "fun" of "update foo broke my" hardware thanks to lack of a hardware ABI. The same scheduler that would benefit a desktop user might cost 1/10th of a second on a server benchmark, and server companies DON'T CARE about how having a lack of hardware ABI affects the desktop, but they know it would mean changing the way they do things now and for big corps change is nearly always bad, okay? This is why if anyone was serious about desktop Linux they would fork the kernel AWAY from Linus and the server developers and concentrate on desktop performance and adding a hardware ABI so you could "write once, run anywhere" like you can with Windows.

Now I'm sure this will be modded down, just as my parent post was, for daring to say anything other than "Gee Biff, isn't Linux swell? It sure is Chip, why Linus is a genius who never does anything wrong and RMS is a God!". But ass kissing never makes anything get better, and the links above show what is wrong with Linux on the desktop from the man Linus himself, and one of the former kernel developers. Unlike the FLOSSie, who only cares about "sticking to the M$ man" and running Linux in his basement, I actually want Linux to succeed, I really do. I remember the days of the Amiga and GEOS and would truly love a "third way" that would light a fire under the big two and give us real choices and innovation. But the way to get to that point, where Linux machines are in every Walmart and mom&pop shop like mine, is NOT to act like a FLOSSie and accept the "turd sandwich" approach, where they say "Here is a free meal" and when they hand you a turd sandwich get told 'you can't complain, it's free!". Bullshit, total bullshit. Everyone here CAN and SHOULD complain! The should flood the kernel mailing list with complaints on desktop being treated like the red headed stepchild, they should demand that changes that would help desktop users either be mainlined or the kernel be split between server and desktop (which is why companies like MSFT have separate server and des

Free Software isn't a religion, and RMS isn't its prophet.

Not all members/supporters of the FSF are as level-headed, unfortunately. Take a look at any of the flamewars on ./ (or wait 20 minutes and another one will come up.)
As for the RMS interview I spoke of, ca 2005 I think... http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484 (Not trying to convince you of anything one way or another, but just so you know I'm not making this shit up).

JA: What about the programmers...
Richard Stallman: What about them? The programmers writing non-free software? They are doing something antisocial. They should get some other job.

This.