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RMS Cancels Lectures In Israel
Eesh writes "Globes and Haaretz report that Stallman cancelled his plans for lecturing in Israeli universities as part of a visit to the Palestinian Authority, due to threats by the Palestinian organizers that they won't be paying for his trip if he does so. Globes write: 'Stallman was scheduled to visit Israel in July and to speak at Haifa University, Tel Aviv University and Shenkar College. The Palestinians initiated the visit, but when they understood that Stallman would also be speaking at Israeli universities they told him they would no longer fund the trip. In response, Stallman announced that he would cancel the speaking engagements in Israel, and would be satisfied with visiting the Palestinian Authority regions only.'" Here's the email from RMS and response from the Israeli organizer. Hopefully RMS will brush off being named "Linux founder" by Haaretz. Update: 05/29 19:39 GMT by T : Oops! As user Windrip points out below, it's Globes, not Haaretz, which attributed Linux to RMS.
Maybe if universities in Israel want to have him speak there, they should invite him at a different time and by him some other tickets?
You can't handle the truth.
Can't he buy himself plane tickets?
Someone has to pay for the beer.
I'll give props to RMS in this case.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
I think in that situation, I'd be inclined to say "a plague on both your houses", and go to Brazil.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Simply put, he can be invited at a different time by the Israelis. I will say that I wish he had not made this choice, as the CLEAR implications by those who made the movement (and subsequently the noise) is to get him to go along with their plan. Literally ANY smear on the Israelis is considered a victory to these sorts of people (likewise, the Israelis playing this same bullshit will draw the opposite conclusion, even though neither is accurate).
Anyway, way to maneuver Stallman for your own political horseshit guys.
Rest assured all those who comment against this or for this will be hurting free software in exchange for beating drums that have been, quite frankly, been beaten to death.
Stallman expects the rest of us to live some live of software purity, never compromising on closed software, despite the fact that we often do so for pragmatic reasons like getting paid, getting the job done etc. Yet here is he, quite prepared to give into bullying terms when it suits him.
Those that worship the desert god must use threats to get what they want.
Eddie says "However, personally I start to doubt your truthfulness about freedom." .
He should have said, "I understand, and we want you to come talk at our universities. Lets discuss making travel arrangements for another date."
I believe, and this article highlights, the palestinians value freedom enough to pay for it, while Israel expects it to be handed to them, and protected for them by and with other peoples money.
They refuse to call it "GNU/Israel".
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
This now sets a precedent that RMS will respond to fiscal pressure, as he's established that the head of FSF will change who he says it to based on who's paying.
Far better for RMS to have refused the trip entirely. Yes, it would have canceled the Israeli university talks anyway, but it would have at least said that he's unwilling to be bullied or change who he talks to.
And for those who say "He could go on a separate time on Israeli money": There is a huge logistical cost in his time and effort involved in traveling halfway across the globe. A trip like this takes two days near dead for travel time & jetlag alone.
This is a cost which RMS, not the Palestinians, is presumably paying. It makes sense, if this cost is incurred, to also give talks at Israeli universities, as this cost is something the Palestinians presumably aren't paying for, he is.
If, instead, the Palestinians are paying for his travel time as well as his ticket, this makes the precedent even worse.
Test your net with Netalyzr
"Richard Stallman" is his birth name, but "rms" (all lower-case) is his chosen identity. Kinda like "Norma Jeane Baker" versus "Marilyn Monroe", or "Robert Zimmerman" versus "Bob Dylan".
Circumcision is child abuse.
Will they be there, listening to Stallman, or will they be carefully segregated from their sexual superiors?
In his place, if someone tried to manipulate me like that, I'd do the opposite -- give them a big fat "fuck you" and go meet the other side instead, even if I had to pay for the trip.
Circumcision is child abuse.
"The funds for my travel to Israel are coming from Palestinians who invited me to give talks for them."
Only RMS would jump right into the middle of such a hot mess. Perhaps he can ask the Syrian government for a free bus trip to the Israeli border like the "Nabka Day" protesters.
Four killed on Israel's border with Syria
Israeli-Palestinian violence marks "Nabka" day
Um yeah....isn't there some free software you could like...video stream the lectures to everyone?
...and nobody gives a shit
portfolio
Say it isn't so!!!
Seriously though. It's the Palestinian's money, they should have some say in it. Call it a "dick move" if you like, but at the moment, Israel is a highly aggressive and deadly enemy of the Palestinians. If the US was paying someone to visit and they decided to swing by the old USSR, you can bet some people in the US would have been pretty upset about that.
This isn't "politics." It can't be called "politics" when Palestinians throw rocks and Israel throws giant weapons of mass destruction back. To even think of using words as petty as politics when describing what is going on between Israel and Palestine shows absolute ignorance of what tragedies and atrocities have occurred there. And yes, even US protesters have been slaughtered by Israelis. They don't care who they kill.
Free software is about receiving source code along with software and being able to modify and redistribute the software. There is nothing inconsistent about Stallman's behavior: you can get paid for software, you can create proprietary software, etc. if you like. Some of your business models may not work with free software, but that's not Stallman's intent, that's just a consequence.
The Palestinians are paying for the trip and they get to set the conditions they pay for; that's the way all invited talks work. "No side trips" is a common condition for invited talks.
What's actually going on is that Israel is forcing foreign scientists wanting to visit the Palestinian territories to travel through Israel, and then saying "oh, we made you come here, why don't you also give some lectures for free". Imagine the US used military force to keep international planes from landing in Canada and then asked foreign scientists diverted through the US to also give free talks in the US; it would be quite outrageous.
The situation is made even worse because the Palestinians are so poor compared to Israel. For Israeli universities to piggy-back on a trip paid for by the Palestinians ought to be a huge embarrassment for Israel.
The obvious thing would be for Israel to pay for the entire trip, including the trip to the Palestinian territories. That would be the obvious, right and peaceful thing to do. Apparently, Israel isn't interested in that.
I hope Israel will turn around and do the right thing.
Ever taken a side trip on a biz trip? Mightn't he have done that? Could have been the plan, articles don't say. Love how ev1's siding w/ pals by default.
Oops! It's NOT free after all. My answer to the Palestinians - as someone else suggested - go fuck yourselves. One more reason I love Windows.
What do they teach, Intro to terrorism-301, Bomb making 101?
To be fair - it is Palestine's dime and they have a right to put conditions on it. No doubt they feel that they don't owe Israel anything, given the state of things over there. Still, I would hope that institutions of education would be able to reach across divides and cooperate with each other rather than participating in this pettiness.
TIL that Count Bernadotte, the man who negotiated for the release of over 30,000 Nazi Concentration Camp prisoners including almost 500 Danish Jews, was killed by a militant Zionist group when he tried negotiating a peace settlement between the Arabs and the Israelis.
How do you like dem apples now?
yeah, RMS, like various ships, or the root mean square, or risk management solutions, or roosevelt middle school, or so many others.
Only an idiot or an egotistical jerk that's also an idiot would refer to themselves by a tla (that's three letter acronym).
No, I've never met the guy, but if he really refers to himself as rms, the previous comments stand. If it's just the media doing this, then those 'reporters' are the ones the comments refer to.
A big non-story, RMS is of Hebrew extraction and therefore can't be anti-Semetic .. :)
Easy solution;
Both parties want him to Speak, let both parties pay half each. If both parties refuse, stay home, if only one accepts, then go there.
I fully understand why the Palestinians do not wish to pay the "Israeli" share, and the other way around. However, splitting the costs is fair, and all parties win.
Sure, I realize it might be impolite if the Palestinians had already been promised a visit, but I think at least the option of splitting costs should be proposed.
> How does Stallman pay his bills, anyway?
(For a detailed answer, you could read a biography about him: http://static.fsf.org/nosvn/faif-2.0.pdf )
Some organisations pay him for the talks he gives. He also won some awards in the 90s which came with chunky cash prizes which he said he would invest.
His bills probably aren't too big anyway. He asks his hosts to pay his travel and accommodation (usually staying with someone in their house rather than in a hotel). He has no kids, which saves him a lot of money.
FSF doesn't pay him any salary.
Expert in software patents or patent law? Contribute to the ESP wiki!
I love Stallman (Jesus) and hate the rest (hypocrite warlords) !
Same old (very old) story...
Rwe obliged 2 save our future by choosing:O3 hole-greenhouse effect instead of accepting everydays gossip-nonsense chat?
Well, opinions about the right or wrongness of Israel aside, it is a well known fact that Israeli universities are pretty well funded and staffed (especially if compared to Palestinian ones).
They already have top class academics working for them and plenty of funding to bring other academics to visit them pretty regularly. I have had the privilege to meet many famous Israeli academics, but I am yet to meet a Palestinian one.
If we just ignore the politics for a little while, I can see why an underfunded Palestinian university might feel cheated if they are paying for a guy to come from across the world to give a lecture, and the guys across the border who have lots more funding and better staff than they have tried to amortize Israeli costs of bringing a foreign academic by using Palestinian money. After all, they could have offered to split the bill or something.
On top of that, I'm not sure about the situation right now, but until very recently, Israel (which controls Palestinian borders and tax collection) was withholding tax money from the Palestinian Authority because they were in reconciliation talks with Hamas. Again, ignoring politics, but looking at a very real cashflow issue that their universities might be having, I can see why they might resent this move.
www.meneguzzi.eu/felipe
From his website:
"Richard Stallman" is just my mundane name; you can call me "rms".
He usually uses "Richard Stallman" or "Richard M. Stallman" for formal correspondence.
However in informal contexts like email signatures he is very likely to just use "rms".
This is not unlike a "Robert" being known informally as "Bob", except that this is a
nickname for the full name, not just the the first name.
Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
I'd have told the palestinians to grow up and get a life... it would be my travel arrangements or tough sh1t no visit at all...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
One of the posts in the linked thread goes to some Israeli biz-pub.
The Ha'aretz article about RMS' decision doesn't mis-attribute "Linux Founder" to RMS.
The error is in another publication
There's nothing in the free *software* philosophy about what conditions can be put on plane tickets. There's a hint in the name - it's about software, not planes.
His lousy options were to cancel the Israel gigs, or cancel the Israel and the Palestinian gigs. He went for the former, and apologised.
This isn't news at all. This part of his work must be pretty frustrating for him.
Expert in software patents or patent law? Contribute to the ESP wiki!
Yet here is he, quite prepared to give into bullying terms when it suits him.
I'm sorry, but: what?
I think a group that is in a heavily-embargoed, poverty-ridden country has every right to be furious at their scraped-together funds being used for speaking engagements in the highly-privileged nation that is doing the embargoing.
The fact that RMS went and booked the other speaking engagements shows that he truly has no political sensitivities, and has been the wrong person to represent the FSF for quite some time.
Please help metamoderate.
Since RMS consequently rejects any piece of software that restricts his rights or movements, the only right thing to do would be to reject the Arab invitation to visit the former British mandate of Palestine. Of course the Israeli invitees then should pick up the tab to pay for his travel expenses to Israel. The Israelis did not restrict RMS's whereabouts and should be lauded for their policy of sticking to freedom for all, including the Arabs.
The Palestinians don't believe in freedom of speech. RMS should cancel his entire trip; his talk would be wasted on them anyway.
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
However, even a turkey could see that would cause problems given the plans the "New World Order" has for the region.
I would have not accept funds in the first place from any political organization over there for transportation.
I would have a independent source of funds for travel expenses. I would then ask for donations from both sides when I got there to pay for the trip.
Richard runs the risk of looking like he is choosing sides by doing this, even though he might not feel that way about the politics of the region.
I say that because his mission is somewhat political due to the economics he will be discussing and social systems that make open source software very profitable as well as technically superior than close source commercial software.
-Hack.
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
I have no idea why RMS is choosing to pick sides in this at all. That has nothing to do with the Free Software movement and a little bit to do with censorship. If someone doesn't want to pay for the trip now, that's their business but RMS is allowing himself to be held hostage. Cancel both trips or find alternative funding.
It's free as in FREEDOM, not free as in do as (the metaphorical I) say. Allowing the Free Software movement to be a pawn in any of this is not in the interests of the movement.
There really seems to be something in the water in that region that makes people crazy. It might not be a bad thing to not send Stallman, regardless. He might play his recorder at them and start an incident.
If you're on a personal trip through the Middle East and your passport has an Israel stamp on it (from any trip in the past), you may be hassled on entry to an Arab state.
I'm sure they made it sound all great and fantastic, talking out of their nostrils. Why you are here RMS speak to us too. Fuck that! Good for you Richard.
I thought he only used the middle M when writing science fiction? :-)
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
You chose the "Free beer" giving up the "Free of speech" and that disappoints me very much since it has to do with the genuinity implementation of your own presented ideas.
Elsewhere in the response he gives the details
Boycotting the Israeli Universities since you get funds from Palestinians means that you accepted the Palestinians proprietary license. Neither you nor them want to help their neighbor.
I agree, and my respect for RMS' idealism is lessened.
I wonder how he'll do with the travel side of the equation - When someone lands at Ben Gurion and then states an intention to speak in Palestine, one typically faces an extensive set of invasive questions - Questions that I suspect someone like Stallman may be unwilling to answer. If that's the case, he may find himself back on the next flight to the USA.
I'm hardly a Stallman fan, but this seems a bit blown out of proportion.
As others have said, go to the Israeli universities on another trip.
Of course, he could do the payback thing and get the Israelis to pay for his second trip, schedule appearances in the Palestinian territories and then cancel them.
Would be a nice symmetry to that.
Anyone else surprised?
Never mind that Muslims enjoy more rights in Israel than they do in countries that are officially Islamic, except maybe Turkey.
"Nevermind that blacks under Apartheid enjoy more rights than they do in other African countries." It's funny how the same racist schlock gets recycled every time, isn't it? The reality is that Israel is a Jewish state and non-Jews don't enjoy even basic civil rights. It's illegal to marry outside of your own "kind"*, and non-Jews can't own land (because it can constitutionally only be sold to Jews).
*=Only Orthodox Jewish weddings are legal in Israel, civil marriages (like we have in the US) are not allowed, but can be recognized if performed abroad. Non-Jews can be married by by an officiant of their religion, but non-religious and mixed-religion couples can never marry due to anti-miscegenation laws. Just like Apartheid South Africa!
It's disturbing to me that RMS, a person who has dedicated his life to freedom, would be willing to speak in Palestine at all. It is ruled by people who deny the right to live to anyone who don't follow a bloodthirsty religion that aims to dictate all parts of its believers' life -- that's pretty much the definition of "totalitarian".
In Israel, muslims who don't follow a party that advocates religious war -- and not just advocates, they send actual missiles that kill actual "heathens" -- enjoy more freedoms than their fellow muslims in neighbour countries. Except that they have to "suffer" living next to druzes, baha'is, jews and atheists. As an atheist, I wouldn't call a country where not worshipping a fairy in the sky is punishable by death.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
So they basically wanted Stallman to speak payed by pallestinian money and AFTER palestinians had the idea of him speaking first. If they want him to speak at their universities THEY can organize another event and THEY can pay for it. They didnt like it when someone else won the pressuring/boycot game also, tipical.
FYI: Turkey has no official state religion.
Why don't you mention how many Islamic countries punish homosexuality with imprisonment or even death?
In Israels, gays can openly serve in the military.
Many Islamic countries also punish advocacy of non-Islamic religions with similar punishments that they dole out to homosexuals.
You don't end up in prison or on the wrong side of a noose for practicing those religions, or advocating atheism, in Israel.
Where do you get that? Interfaith marriage is not illegal in Israel, and non-jews can certainly own land. There's nothing in the constitution about that. Really, the "constitution" is a set of fundamental laws with an ad hoc constitutional status - i.e. this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Human_Dignity_and_Liberty
While it's true that marriage law is a mess in Israel, it's because of a bunch of reasons having more to do with internal politics than a desire to discriminate against anyone, and the situation you're describing is basically fiction.
Ooh, burn.
right now, their ruling party is islamic, and they are eroding the secular nature turkey. it's just a matter of time.
When Palestinians refuse to pay for Israeli universities' speakers, that can only mean it's all... an American conspiracy!
Moshe Z. Matitya <moshem at alumnimail.yu.edu> wrote:
Stallman is a radical anti-Israel extremist, as a brief Google search will reveal rather quickly. It is thus hardly surprising that he cancelled his appearance here; the only surprise was that he ever agreed to it in the first place, before "coming to his senses".
I would also venture an educated guess that Stallman's Palestinian hosts were actually *not* the people who raised objections to his speaking engagements here. Far more likely that the objectors were anti-Israel BDS activists from the US college campus scene, who are Stallman's buddies.
People have the right to go and to speak, or not to, wherever they please -- even if their motivations are hateful and morally repugnant, as they most certainly are in Stallman's case. But by the same token, the rest of us have the right, and perhaps even the obligation, to loudly publicize and condemn that morally repugnant behavior.
is that you might be beholden to the money of tyrants and terrorists. And, yes, I am calling Palestinian Authority terrorists since they joined up with Hamas. Spare me the arguments that Israel is "just as bad". I heard them all and I profoundly disagree.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
So all Israeli Jews are European? Really? Really?
Arab-Islamic terrorists like Hamas want the total extermination of the Jewish people and conquest of the world. Israel has every right to defend themselves from such psychopaths.
Did the Israelis make any threat based on where he spoke? Nope. So he bends over and takes one from a group of closed minded, terrorist assholes.
I'm sure the sock puppets for the terrorists will somehow find a way to blame "the joos" for this.
-- Will program for bandwidth
>LLVM is about to make GCC a footnote in history.
hahahahhahahahahahahahaha
If the Israeli speeches were going to cost them a lot extra, then I can somewhat understand their asking him to cancel. Otherwise, I would cancel the Palestinian talks and pay for my own ticket to Israel just to illustrate that I can't be played like that.
False flag "by way of deception shall ye make war".
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
That was in 1948. What is happening today? In case you haven't noticed, Israel has done everything they could to bring peace to the region. They gave up large tracts of land hoping it would bring peace. It didn't. The terrorist simply moved their rocket launch points up to the new borders.
-- Will program for bandwidth
Disclaimer: I know very little about the actual conflict. I'm not even familiar with the concept of so thoroughly hating one's neighbour. So to me, this seems grossly overblown.
I get that they're irked about RMS travelling there on Palestine's dime, and trying to book a gig next door with their "enemies". I get that. What I don't get is why it is such a big deal. Why not have the Israeli venue to split the bill ? Yes I know the two nations hate each other to death, but we're talking about goddamned universities here. RMS isn't going to trade military secrets or sneak weapons across the border, he's going to give his pseudo-religious hubbub on free software and speech.
Like I said, I know very little about the nitty-gritty, I just know they're arguing over some patch of land and past transgressions or something. Regardless, to me both sides are acting like children. Ignorant, medieval, armed children. If I were RMS, I'd cancel the palestine lectures as well and tell them to go fuck themselves. They can have civilized guests once they grow out of their anal phase.
Well, to be fair, the "only marrying Jews" thing isn't an Israeli thing, but across the whole religion of Judaism. It's just the only place it can be enforced is there. Same as with homosexuality disqualifying you for marriage in other countries heavily run by religion.
Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
When a jew sees an opportunity to get something for free he will never pay for it ... It's the nature of the beast
PA != Hamas. Dammit, at least try to keep up.
>>> ...misunderstand either how apartheid actually worked in South Africa or ... >>>
The majority opinion in SA is that Israel is an apartheid state.
Where do you get that? Interfaith marriage is not illegal in Israel, and non-jews can certainly own land.
I'm guessing slightly mangled second-hand information. The current state of affairs is that interfaith marriages are legally recognised by Israel, but it's impossible to actually conduct a legal interfaith marriage within Israel (or indeed any kind of secular marriage), due to the political influence of orthodox Judaism IIRC. Oh, and while it is legal for non-Jews to own land, a lot of the land is owned by organisations that are forbidden to lease to non-Jews or to sell it outright to anyone.
We'll see what zombie Ata'turk has to say about THAT!
That may be, but that doesn't change the fact that they are second class citizens in Israel.
Only in the sense that Sinn Fein isn't the IRA.
Imagine if the situation had been reversed: Suppose an Israeli university had sponsored Stallman and then threatened to pull funding if he went on to speak at a Palestinian university. Do you think Stallman would have made the same choice? Do you think posters would say they "understand" the position of the Israeli university?
Unfortunately, Stallman (who is normally very consistent in his behaviour and his beliefs) has messed up this time. He's compromised freedom for the sake of politics.
at both sides. It is obvious they value more the possibility of converting the talks to a political statement than the talks themselves.
There were alternate solutions (sharing the cost, make that a joint event, bring people closer), but no... we'll go for the good old "but... the other side eats babies" and "pissing on their parade" strategies. And those are the "Educators".
RMS did right though. The smart thing to do is make the politics aside and focus on the original obligations. And the email response he got was disproportionate and childish.
No, the political branch of Hamas is also called Hamas. They were voted into power in Gaza because of the perceived corruption and disliked foreign-relations of the PA, remember?
Apartheid by definition is racial segregation within borders of a country.
That's what happens in Israel. Palestine Authority is not a country but a part of Israel, however its citizens are denied the right to move freely within the borders of Israel.
Well that's what would bother me more, give that it's my money.
As to taking sides on the issue, there's enough faults either way that you couldn't fit a discarded foreskin between them.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Read your own link... immediately following the assasination, Lehi (the militant group in question) was forcibly disarmed and dismantled. If only the PA would do the same with Hamas. The day the Palestinians have their own Altalena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altalena), choose to centralize their authority, and reject terrorism is the day negotiations should begin, and not a day sooner.
This of course doesn't even consider the other big caveat to your point... Bernadotte saved Western European nationals (starting in May '45, when the biggest threat was friendly fire from Allied bombing) , a very few of which happened to be Jews, and he did nothing to save the vast majority of concentration camp victims, who were Eastern European Jews, and who were left in the DP camps, with nowhere to run. Nor of course, the complete utter failure of the Red Cross (of which he was the Swedish VP) to monitor and publicize the atrocities in the camps during the war.
Name a right they lack compared to Israeli Jews? The biggest difference is tthat they're not subject to the draft, though they can volunteer. Big hardship there....
What a sellout!
It's disturbing to me that RMS, a person who has dedicated his life to freedom, would be willing to speak in Palestine at all. It is ruled by people who deny the right to live to anyone who don't follow a bloodthirsty religion that aims to dictate all parts of its believers' life -- that's pretty much the definition of "totalitarian".
Was one of his speaking engagements in Bethlehem, a majority Christian city? Maybe you should learn a bit more about Palestine and Palestinians, who are majority Muslim but have a vary large and varied set of minorities, including Christian, Druze and Bedouin, living with them.
I will give up the point above about Israelis being more even handed - they do appear to be equal opportunity oppressors of Palestinians, and will oppress regardless of race, religion or gender.
Work like no one is watching. Dance like you've never been hurt. Make love like you don't need the money.
They gave up large trackts of land they had now right to, like most of Israel. I dont support land thieves,
which Israle is entirely made up of. Israel of course was won by terrorism, which its supporters conveniently forget.
Well said sir, but the pro Israel mods dont like the truth.
Stallman is basically an anti-Semite, just a polite one. He had to choose sides. Just like everyone had to in WWII. He chose the side of Jihad, of terror, of Islamism. Of course its "OK they're just Jews" is his thinking. Pretty much par for the course in the Open Source Movement, which is openly anti-Semitic and anti-Western (looking at you, Julian Assange).
Just another way to de-legimitize Israel's existence in a never ending quest for Muslim "Lebensraum" and the polite apologizers for it. What the hell was Stallman doing lecturing at Palestinian "Universities" (read: Jihad recruitment centers) since no Palestinian "university" has ever produced much of anything in the way of Math or Science? The literacy levels, polygamy levels, belief in Jihad, belief in the supernatural (Muslims believe the most idiotic things, like Mohammed mounted a winged horse from Mecca to Jerusalem in one night, and ascended to heaven from Jerusalem upon the winged horse, or that Jinnis cause all natural events like earthquakes), all mean Muslims are not even capable of comprehending the basics of Computer Science. At best they are copying code monkeys, incapable of anything original. Anyone can contribute to Linux's kernel and module projects, and many Israelis do yet almost no Muslims. A cheap computer and an internet connection is all you need to contribute, and yet Muslims cannot even do THAT.
Recently a London Imam had to resign, threatened with DEATH for blasphemy because he ... supported the theory of evolution (doing so merits the death penalty among Muslims). Why the hell Stallman wanted to speak to Palestinians is beyond me save gut-level, innate anti-Semitism. Of which Stallman has plenty like most in the Open Source movement. Its not as if Palestinians could even comprehend the basics of Open Source, given that their society is founded on the belief that Allah makes everything happen on his whim. If Allah wants 2 + 2 = 7, he can make it so if he wishes. Stallman might as well have lectured a wall on Open Source, and gotten the same level of comprehension. Muslims reject rationalism completely and totally. They live in a world of primitive magic controlled by Allah.
What Stallman does in his spare time in the Middle East is his business, not the Palestinian Authority.
Giving into the PA's demand was a wimpy thing to do, particularly from someone the likes of Eric Stallman, who has been known to take controversial stances because it was the right thing to do.
"Israel has done everything they could to bring peace to the region."
What is wrong with you? You absolute muppet, Israeli policy makers would laugh behind your back at your credulity.
They wouldnt even pay for such propaganda, as its glaring falsity would only highlight the opposite.
fuck slashdot and you nerd assholes. Just wanted to do that for a long time. Fuck you. Fuck you all. Dickheads.
This isn't the cause, everybody knows why Stallman didn't go to Israel after lecturing in Palestine. By the same reason Brazilian President didn't visited Herlz's tomb the same day he did to Arafat's in 2010: Ethics.
Even if you just don't approve of what the current bunch of outright genocidal fascists running the place are doing but approve of the country itself you still get called antisemetic. They are spitting on the graves of their ancestors and behaving just like those that killed their ancestors - Gaza is looking a lot like ghettos in Warsaw some time back.
I'm sure you know that neither side will agree to such a proposal. What is your real game here? Who are you trying to depict as unreasonable?
Suddenly, RMS is plunged into a situation where someone ELSE is pointing out flaws and tough choices! Oh, this is too rare!
He has lived in his little glass house for a millenia, throwing his stones at others...now he faces a tough choice and someone has something to say.
Sucks to now see that the world is not this perfect university setting.
These days I have a different point of view and I simply wouldn't do any business in the region because ancient passions have caused all concerned to behave in a non-linear way. To put it bluntly. I have no desire to fly into an airport where the plane is met by a tank and soldiers wielding automatic weapons. Whether it is Israel, or Germany, or Japan for that matter. These days, RMS could have attended virtually on a big screen.
It's interesting to note (*) that the current state of affairs regarding marriage in Israel is more unpopular among secular Jews who want to marry other secular Jews without the overbearing involvement of an orthodox rabbi than among people who are interested in marrying someone of a different faith. The latter seem to be better organized and have better parliamentary representation, so something might actually change on their behalf.
(*) Interesting to me, at least...
If he goes to Argentina, he might end up in Israel regardless. :-D
Everybody that I know that knows him personally (which I don't) calls him Richard. I've had a few brief email conversations with him and he didn't sign the emails at all. RMS is his login name. Back in the olden days (which, through the fog of memory, I think I may have been party to) programmers used to refer to each other by their login name. Many people (even me) used to sign their emails with their login name (which would have been the same as their email address). Back when "finger" was the way to check up on what people were doing, it was important to know people's login name.
I still use my normal login name (which isn't wrook, BTW) on a lot of forums and there are people who I've talked with for decades that don't know me by any other name. I've almost certainly referred to myself that way online. That doesn't mean that I use it in daily conversation.
Ya know, this lost me a lot of respect for RMS. I can understand his need to make a living through speaking engagements (assuming that's what he's doing here), but for a man who's visible life and career has been almost completely focused on "free as in speech", this is somewhat of a backwards move.
Israel, an atomic state with military hardware which rivals anything in the rest of the west and with one of the best military forces to boot, is bombarded on an almost daily basis by rockets and attacked by "Palestine"/Muslim extremists intent on killing Israelis. Yes, the Israelis retaliate, but given their capabilities it is, at best, "measured".
The Palistine promoters are trying to silence RMS speech in Israel for political reasons. RMS succumbed for financial/prestige reasons. Isn't this precisely the issue behind RMS's ranting and raving?
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Does this fall under the US antiboycott laws?
http://www.bis.doc.gov/complianceandenforcement/antiboycottcompliance.htm
Objectives:
The antiboycott laws were adopted to encourage, and in specified cases, require U.S. firms to refuse to participate in foreign boycotts that the United States does not sanction. They have the effect of preventing U.S. firms from being used to implement foreign policies of other nations which run counter to U.S. policy.
Who Is Covered by the Laws? ...
The antiboycott provisions of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) apply to the activities of U.S. persons in the interstate or foreign commerce of the United States. The term "U.S. person" includes all individuals, corporations and unincorporated associations resident in the United States, including the permanent domestic affiliates of foreign concerns.
What do the Laws Prohibit?
Conduct that may be penalized under the TRA and/or prohibited under the EAR includes:
* Agreements to refuse or actual refusal to do business with or in Israel or with blacklisted companies.
* Agreements to discriminate or actual discrimination against other persons based on race, religion, sex, national origin or nationality.
* Agreements to furnish or actual furnishing of information about business relationships with or in Israel or with blacklisted companies.
* Agreements to furnish or actual furnishing of information about the race, religion, sex, or national origin of another person.
Implementing letters of credit containing prohibited boycott terms or conditions.
The TRA does not "prohibit" conduct, but denies tax benefits ("penalizes") for certain types of boycott-related agreements.
You're just dreaming. Come and see the real world.
aaaaaaa
What is your real game here?
Not playing any game. I'm clearly not involved, or able to really advice anyone on this topic. Just voicing my opinion. This is slashdot.
Who are you trying to depict as unreasonable?
The one refusing an objectively fair compromise. Both, either, or neither, I don't care. For reference, I don't have much bias in the question, I think both sides are partly responsible for the situation.
The point of the proposal is to force both individually to accept, or depict themselves as unreasonable. Doubly so if the other part accepts. I'm not pointing fingers.
This "Eddy" should be removed from his post immediately.
People like him are only capable of splitting hairs and making false accusations,
instead of joining hands.
His reply is hostile, from Aleph to Omega.
I wonder how one spells "idiot" in Hebrew.
Obviously niether would accept. Once again - why are you pretending to be so unaware of a major part of the history of the last half a century? You have survived to an age where can form coherent sentences so you cannot possibly be as stupid as you pretend. A few people have used that tactic - do they teach it in schools now as a debating tactic to make others simply walk away in disgust and thus pretend to win some argument by forfeit?
There are about as many Jews in israel whose origins are in Arab and North-African countries as Jews of European descent. The claim that the state was erected "in order to oppress the people of the region" is patently false.
While Israel has its faults, many of which related to how it treats its internal non-Jewish minority as well as the semi-occupied west bank, your presentation of its origins and current state are completely misinformed and misguided.
In particular, Israeli prime minister (not president) Netanyahu made nothing like the statement you quote for him. His vision for the end of the conflict is unacceptable to Palestinians, but that's ok; no Palestinian leader has ever accepted any solution that is consistent with the existence of a Jewish state in the region.
Majority consensus of the world is that Israel is a virtual Apartheid state, so by consensus you are quite wrong. Continue living with your delusions at your peril.
In a letter to one of the Israeli Activists, RMS writes:
This move by Palestinian Authority it won't make any friends in Israel so I think its a bad move. I also think that Stallman compromised his principles on this one and sets a bad precedent for him and future lecturers. But Israel still has an opportunity to be the bigger person and could agree to fund the trip instead ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_members_of_the_Knesset
Get back to me in another 100 years when the Muslim population of Israel will be a majority, given current demographics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Population_Growth_Rate
Actually no one has any idea what's going to come down over there in the long run....
What, RMS isn't using Free Open Travel?
I mean, seriously, anyone telling me I should be working for free and not paying others for software I use, I don't accept him or her taking tax payers' money for anything, really. I hope he's eating from Free Open Garbage bins.
Me of the Free Mugs and T-Shirts Foundation thinks this all is pretty weird, somehow. Espessially since we were planning on selling talks by RMS so as to fund our activities.
Anyway, please all be responsible citizens, drink from Free T-Shirts, wear only Free Mugs, and keep on buying stuff that pays for it.
I haven't seen this much BS on one thread since the last global warming post. Palestinians will never be a State because Hamas, who is back by Iran, has in their charter that Israel and Israelis should be destroyed. Arabs of whatever sect have just as much right over Israel's land as they would over Spain's land. If you think Israel has no right to it, then Spain has no right to their land.
Israelis controlled much more than they have now far longer ago that the idea of a 'Palestinian State' was ever conjured up. I don't like giving $4Billion a year to Israel as much as the next guy (or any other country for that matter), but pretending like the Palestinians have some kind of claim to that land when King David ruled that land around 1000ish BC is delusional.
Israel won the land they have now from a war that was launched against them from 3 different Arab 'states' (I know, odd of Arabs to start a war). Israeli kicked their ass and the land was ceded to them. Anyone here in the US ready to give up the south west US states because Mexicans are pissed that they lost a war long ago?
In closing I'd like to say that if you walk in the Arab controlled parts of Israel, you (assuming you are a westerner) will likely be harassed if not maimed or killed. This is the reality of the Arab world and is why a US journalist covering the 'democracy uprising' or 'freedom uprising' in Egypt was rapped in the middle of the day, in the middle of the 'freedom protests' where everyone could see. They yelled JEW! JEW! JEW! as she was raped.
If you all want to pretend like war wont be launched against Israel as soon as there is a sign of weakness, you are a fool. If you think the Palestinians will ever accept the US in any way shape or form other than as an enemy, you will find disappointment at every turn.
"In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash"
Unfortunately RMS has indicated that in a space that is slightly off center from his personal interest, he is quite willing to bend to accommodate his capitalistic need of getting paid (sure, he has to pay bills, as long as it isn't software he's selling....). Sadly, RMS's speech is anything but free, and should be taken in that context from this point on.
And to think I used to admire his ideals.....
JR
Not sure about what he "feels" If you read his webpage, almost every third post is against israel government and the occupation of palestinnian territories.
This makes me respect him more.
http://www.waylanderskeep.com/2009/12/jewish-talmud-quotes/ [waylanderskeep.com]
****
1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."
4. Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."
5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."
6. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."
7. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."
8. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."
9. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."
10. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."
11. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."
12. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."
13. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."
14. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."
15. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."
16. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."
17. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."
18. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."
19. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."
20. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."
21. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."
22. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."
23. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."
24. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean."
25. Nedarim 23b: "He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the future shall be null'. His vows are then invalid."
****
So
If one side say, "They started it!" and the other side say, "No, it was them!", then how does that work?
Seems like less effort to simply not believe any of them.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
In 2006, the Palstenian civil society called for supporters of their cause to boycott, divest and sanction Israel whom is denying rights to over 4 million people who live in Israel based on thier religion.
Had the Palestenians not pulled the funding they would have been breaking their own boycott.
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2198230&cid=36304050
Hahahahaha. I was going to reply to something you said but I decided to read your post history instead. So you're known as "CaPTaiN-PaRaNoiD" around here? LOL, funny name. Are you really on meds and such too?? Or is this some forum local comic strip that you are the star of, as, lmao, "CaPTaiN-PaRaNoiD' around here on this forum site? I am new here and it's got me curious. Laughing my ass off, but curious. Hahahaha, "CaPTaiN-PaRaNoiD", hahaha.
Stallman's decision is the correct moral choice. Israel's treatment of Palestinians will go down in history as a crime against humanity, and is an abomination. I hope Stallman's decision will help to raise awareness on this issue -- and get through to the many closed minds and closed hearts that are locked in hatred and fear which prevents them from seeing the reality of this great human tragedy.
--Rick
child labor laws
What are children supposed to do over extended vacations from school? What's the best way to teach children the value of work? Strict laws against child labor interfere with both of these.
The thefts is perpetrated by the government, who steals the purchasing power of all dollars that are already in existence, and that's why the sensible thing to do is not to be in fiat.
If both candidates in a given election are pro-fiat, what can a private citizen do, other than not buying Chrysler?