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You say that, but some cities in Texas are already cutting routes and weekend service in response to budget problems.

Really? I didn't know that pine coffins were so expensive.

There's something wrong with your reply on the surface. I haven't looked at the costs, but that "it (routinely) costs more to execute someone than not?" Assumptions, cost measurements, or what: SOMEthing's wrong with that line. Doing a Google search now. Ahh, phrasing: you mean the cost of the legal proceedings, long and drawn out as they are for kill vs non-kill cases while I literally mean the cost to kill them, period; not the previous "set up" costs that must be incurred. Good point, they are different.

If the death penalty was replaced with a sentence of Life Without the Possibility of Parole*, which costs millions less and also ensures that the public is protected while eliminating the risk of an irreversible mistake, the money saved could ...

I hadn't considered that. And it does solve the 100% sure thing, as you don't kill someone, you just effectively "take their life away over a long period of time."

So we'd need more jails if (as?) we get more permanent jail residents. Oh, and don't forget health care, even if they want to change their sex. And visitation rights, and guards, alarms, upkeep, training, and what-now.

Vs an "Escape from New York" setup.

So you take someone, put them in "The Big House", locked up with bars everywhere, ordered around all of the time, take care of them (not being sarcastic here) for as long as they live? I originally was going to say THAT sounds like "cruel and unusual punishment," just like living on death row for 20 years -- see Nathan Dunlap. But Food, AC, heat, dry, bedding, security, and medicine all provided? The more I think about it the more I think I want to go there myself -- everything's all done and provided for me. All I have to do is be there and complain if I'm bored. And as a bonus I even get to take out someone that I absolutely abhor? Depending on who it was: forget being regretful about it, if it was the right person I could have nice dreams about that every night.

So once I cross some magic threshold all you can do to me is lock me up and feed me? For someone serving concurrent or even sequential life sentences: maybe that's all the judge can do, but it's ridiculous non-the-less. So James should have shot more, more "bang for the buck" as it were, right?

And that permanent "without parole" line is so harsh, shouldn't we think of the poor victimized prisoner in the years to come?

Taking someone life against their will should NEVER be an easy, dried and cut thing. That doesn't mean that you don't do it, though. And: let's ask the opinions of their victims. Oh wait, we can't. Their life was cut short -- do we "owe" them anything?

Not all of them would agree with me, though. She's a better person than I.

Then again you've got mob rules, but that's no good either.

Hmmm ... Santa keeps a list of people, I guess I'll have to ask Jason if he's keeps one as well.

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NO I'm not going to go out and kill anyone. I don't hate anyone that much. If they do irritate me I just usually get away from them, or irritate them enough so that they move away from me.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Even if is "cheaper" and nicer to keep most killers alive, it still seems l

Thanks for making such a well thought out post.... but arguing that "Accidental deaths occur in the US because people are morons" is a straw man. All of your examples and perspectives are also begging the question, assuming that if you do get accidentally injured, you are a moron.

Without exception, every single gun owner I have ever met has the same arrogant philosophy, that accidents only happen to morons, and that they know exactly what they are doing so it can never happen to them. I submit that not all gun owners are as infallible as they claim, because accidents do happen and they happen to those that are expert with weapons.

example 1

example 2

And if anyone would like to step up and say they know more about guns than your average Secret Service agent, then I welcome them to make fools of themselves boasting of such absurdities.

and by massive I mean requiring them to pay millions of dollars.

Oh, you can bet they're already spending millions of dollars. They spent that from the day their service went offline and have continued to spend it each day it's unavailable to users.

The infrastructure costs of a firedrill like this are enormous. Consider that the State of Texas Comptroller's Office has already spent more than $1.8 million just to hire consultants to come in and figure out how their own staff screwed up and left 3.5 million people's SSN's, DOB's, names, and addresses on a publicly-available server for over a year. In the case of the Comptroller's Office, it appears that two of the consultants were campaign contributors, so it's not like the Comptroller's Office is wasting money on strangers.

I agree with you that millions should be spent to compensate the victims, though, if that's what you meant.

Seth

While they're by no means the only state with budget problems, it is kind of coincidental that we're seeing this from Texas in the midst of a budget deficit. With $10 billion in lost revenue, they're starting to get creative like demanding university offer a $10k bachelors degree. Oh the abuse of the educational system, both lower and higher education. It's probably going to come down to just cuts across the board. My friends from Texas have often bragged about it but Texas doesn't have income tax so it's sort of asking a lot to do all this on 6.25% sales tax. You can make promises like "no new taxes" and "more tax cuts" but it looks like they'll run Amazon out of town on this one. Well, they were right that taxes hurt businesses! Bye bye Amazon!

I'm trying to get the clearest objective picture I can about what's going on the food industry, and it doesn't look pretty. Sorry. I'm sure you have access to information that I don't, and follow these things more closely. I rely on reports by journalists, researchers, government agencies, and activists who also have access to information that I don't, and who also follow these things more closely than I do. Just because I'm not in the field doesn't mean I can't try to find what's going on and form an opinion. I will see if I can find the Journal of Dairy Science report you're talking about.

Anyway, you can accuse me of FUD, but there are real, serious, and ongoing health consequences to food industry practices:
* Mad Cow Disease: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3355625.stm
* E Coli in Spinach: http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/4198816.html
* Salmonella in Eggs: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/business/23eggs.html?_r=1&ref=business

People die when industry cuts corners and regulatory agencies don't do their job.

More of my resources:
* Agricultural Antibiotic Use Contributes To 'Super-Bugs' In Humans - http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/07/050705010900.htm
* Denmark's Case for Antibiotic-Free Animals - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/10/eveningnews/main6195054.shtml
* The above article cites Professor Ellen Silbergeld - http://faculty.jhsph.edu/Default.cfm?faculty_id=648
* The true cost of cheap chicken - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-true-cost-of-cheap-chicken-768062.html
* Agriculture Pollution report from Defra (UK government) - http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/landmanage/water/csf/index.htm
* Wikipedia page on Factory Farming - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

Activists (I am listing them separately, to be fair):
* http://www.nrdc.org/water/pollution/ffarms.asp
* http://www.ciwf.org.uk/
* http://www.farmsanctuary.org/issues/factoryfarming/
* http://www.iowasource.com/health/CAFO_airqu_0805.html
* Food, Inc. (movie)
* Ominvore's Dillemma, Michael Pollan
* Eating Animals, Michael Safran Foer

...charges filed against every staff member who knew of this without alerting the public.

Let no good deed go unpunished!!

Aside from the normal round of robot-asteroid-which-corporate-cocksuck-for-president-will-fuck-us-next news, how about something for US, the people of this country:

Marijuana vending machines are a reality in California:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2248565,00.html
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2008/01/28/vending-machines-in-california-dispense-medical-marijuana.aspx
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/01/hot-button-medi.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7212778.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/28/wvend128.xml
http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_8104481
http://livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/01/29/Cannabis_to_be_dispensed_from_vending_machines
http://www.kwtx.com/medicaldirectory/headlines/14453477.html
http://wkrg.com/news/article/marijuana_vending_machines/9588/

Offtopic, flamebait, troll, pony, whatever, at least this news will appear before the next Slashdot pro-marijuana, pro-nature, pro-peoples-fucking-rights-in-action story hits ten years from now after marijuana is legalized in this still-puritanical, but now we can butt fuck legally, backwards cross-licking country.

he reality is that the ACLU doesn't come down on the right side all the time. A side effect of erring on the side of limiting discrimination and siding with the minority is that you sometimes end up being unpopular and sometimes end up being straight up wrong. The more important question is, are we talking about an organization that's more of a liability than a force for good? As I see it, on the good side you have times when the ACLU protects somebody who is being abused by the government, stands up for free speech, and gets due process for somebody who might otherwise been denied it. On the other hand, people are occasionally offended because they have to take down a religious trinket they've put up on the public dime. Frankly, while I'm usually annoyed and mildly offended at the use of my money being spent to rub my nose in other peoples' religion, I'm easygoing enough that I think a lawsuit is a bit over the top. On the other hand, if the symbolism of a particular group's idol being displayed by the government should be no big deal, why do they wet themselves with rage when they're asked to take it down?

I will agree that the ACLU is not an evil organization, but way too often, they stick their nose where it doesn't belong. Even more often, they gladly offend the majority in order to keep the minority from getting offended.

Here is an example. The ACLU fought to allow Wiccan symbols allowed on soldier's graves. That's a good thing. I don't care if a soldier wants a spaghetti monster on his grave! Whatever they want, that is what they shall have! However, the ACLU fought to have a war memorial covered with a tarp because it was in the shape of a cross. Was anyone really offended by this cross on a hill in the middle of the Mojave desert? Not that I can find. But, because it was in the shape of a cross, and it was on public land, the ACLU demanded that it be covered. Why? Who was offended? Did anyone care?

The ACLU has not given up its fight to also have the cross removed at the Mount Soledad Veterans Memorial in San Diego, California. The organization claims the display of the cross on federally-owned land violates the constitution.

Of course, the ACLU did the same thing in San Diego

How about a Katrina memorial along side the Mississippi River on private land and paid for by private funds?

The American Civil Liberties Union is objecting to plans for a memorial to the 129 residents of Louisiana's St. Bernard Parish who died in Hurricane Katrina, because it will include a cross bearing a likeness of the face of Jesus.

In a letter to parish officials, Louisiana ACLU Executive Director Joe Cook said the plan violates separation of church and state because the memorial would be alongside a public waterway.

But the parish president says he sees nothing wrong with the memorial, which will be erected on private land near the Mississippi River's Gulf outlet and is being financed with donations.

What if I want to display a manger scene in my front yard that faces a public roadway? (whose front yard doesn't face a public roadway?) How about if I want to build a church next to a federal highway? What if I want to use a federal highway to get to church on Sunday morning? Isn't that using federal funds to support a religion?

Same story, another link.
This is the kind of shit I'm talking about. The ACLU is sticking their noses where it does not belong. No one in this Parish complained. Hell! No one complained at all with the exception of the ACLU.

Then there is the case where the ACLU

• The survellience recordings have Koresh ordering Schneider to empty Coleman fuel to be within the building.
• Observers saw a man dressed in black start a fire with his hands.
• The three fires started almost simultaneously in different parts of the building

• As the fire spread, only nine people left the building

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/1996172.html

Texas is suing Sony BMG Music Entertainment, alleging the company illegally installed spyware on millions of music CDs that Attorney General Greg Abbott says can make computers "vulnerable to computer viruses and other forms of attack."

Abbott said the spyware installs files onto the computers on which the CDs are played.

The entire country is in "legal limbo". One little invasion can ruin an entire legal system. And then leave a vacuum where the country should be, for years.

Just this week, the Iraq Constitution talks collapsed. That can delay legal niceties like domain names, and even smaller details like ending the civil war.

You're kidding, right? Have you ever tried to move 100,000 people from a disaster area? These are the sick, the old, the very young, injured and, unfortunately, some are the criminal. It is not easy to move them, especially when large parts of the transportation infrastructure has been destroyed. Flat bottom boats are not going to do the job well.

We don't (or didn't) need high-tech toys to control the crowds. Simple, common-sense, things like on-going airdrops of food and water, combined with convoys of buses, and temporary shelters at schools, etc, would have prevented major losses of life in this fiasco.

They did try airdrops and were shot at. The Mayor of New Orleans had over 400 buses at his disposal after he was urged by President Bush to evacuate New Orleans ~48 hours before Katrina hit. He chose to leave those city and school buses in the motor pool. The buses that are in New Orleans had to come from outside the city. The buses that were used delivered the victims to locations without adequate resourses such as the Superdome and Convention Center. It is unfortunate that Nagin ignored his own disaster plan.

If that is true, then what is Krafts obligation if the cheese in the sandwich does not actually heal anyone?