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It's not slackware, but Debian also runs on powerpc. It's even going to be part of the next official release.

As to your other questions:

The BSD that runs on MacPPC is NetBSD OFPPC.

And SUSE has a page on installing SUSE for ppc.

For laptop installation hints, look at the archives for the LinuxPPC Mailing List. If your laptop is a pismo (the ones with firewire) support might not be 100% there yet; best bet is to post to the mailing list, several of the LinuxPPC kernel developers subscribe, as well as the author of the LinuxPPC booters (miBoot, yaboot, and BootX).

The same kernel and booter(s) are used for all LinuxPPC distros, so questions about booting and installing are appropriate on that list, because many list members have experience with those issues.

I've played Nanosaur. Quite a bit, actually. It came bundled on the Macintosh G3 I bought to run the One True OS on. It's beautiful -- or it was at the time, over a year ago. Expectations in computer graphics, of course, follow Moore's Law as well. But it runs very smoothly even on lower-end 3d hardware.

But the game gets old fast. There's really not much to do besides run around enjoying the scenery, and killing the odd dinosaur with rocket launchers. Hopefully they'll add some more plot and strategy to the game -- because it really is a great underlying engine. Or maybe if it's open source, it could become the base for something Very Cool.

Oh, by the way! When it's available, try climbing up onto the tall dormant volcano near the beginning and jumping off. If you time it right and get to the maximum possible height, well, you'll get a neat reward. Hee hee. Maybe I'll boot into the MacOS tomorrow and play this thing once more.

John

Ugh. This isn't a flame; unlike some others, I'm not going to go ape just because I can't get the source to a couple of the components of one of the apps I run.

But whenever I hear 'binary-only,' it turns out to mean Linux-x86 only. As someone who runs Linux (yes, real Linux, new kernels and all) on a PowerPC, this won't be the first almost-must-have goodie denied to me -- and I'm sure folks who run on other open source OSes, even on the x86, can relate.

John

Help get RealPlayer for Linux/PPC! They need to see that there is enough interest to warrant a PPC version, so please send 'em an email!

1. Poor user base. More people with Macs run MacOS than run LinuxPPC and NetBSD/macppc put togther. Should we all switch to MacOS then?
2. NetBSD can't read Apple Partition maps. True for the 1.4 release edition, but not true for -current (for the brave), or the upcoming 1.5 release (for the patient).
3. No support for Linux/PPC binaries. True, but only a valid reason if running LinuxPPC binaries is on your list of priorities. It's not a sign of lack of support on NetBSD/macppc's part, but yet another indicator that NetBSD/macppc is still in its infancy. And neither system can run MacOS binaries, so maybe we should all just switch to that?
4. 8-bit XServer - Blah. I don't recall running into this issue, but I'm not a graphics weenie. If you need to run TheGIMP or something like that, then yes, this is an issue.

I tried out both systems on a PowerBook 3400 last year. Both were okay for my purposes, (NetBSD/macppc was marginally superior for me), but trying to get X to cope with one pointer button just ruined the whole experience.

Once I get the hardware straightened out, I'll likely set up a desktop box to dual-boot NetBSD/macppc and Debian/PowerPC until one or the other has all the features I want. Since I lack any MacOS, installing LinuxPPC isn't likely to be worth the effort.

1. Poor user base. More people with Macs run MacOS than run LinuxPPC and NetBSD/macppc put togther. Should we all switch to MacOS then?
2. NetBSD can't read Apple Partition maps. True for the 1.4 release edition, but not true for -current (for the brave), or the upcoming 1.5 release (for the patient).
3. No support for Linux/PPC binaries. True, but only a valid reason if running LinuxPPC binaries is on your list of priorities. It's not a sign of lack of support on NetBSD/macppc's part, but yet another indicator that NetBSD/macppc is still in its infancy. And neither system can run MacOS binaries, so maybe we should all just switch to that?
4. 8-bit XServer - Blah. I don't recall running into this issue, but I'm not a graphics weenie. If you need to run TheGIMP or something like that, then yes, this is an issue.

I tried out both systems on a PowerBook 3400 last year. Both were okay for my purposes, (NetBSD/macppc was marginally superior for me), but trying to get X to cope with one pointer button just ruined the whole experience.

Once I get the hardware straightened out, I'll likely set up a desktop box to dual-boot NetBSD/macppc and Debian/PowerPC until one or the other has all the features I want. Since I lack any MacOS, installing LinuxPPC isn't likely to be worth the effort.

1. Poor user base. More people with Macs run MacOS than run LinuxPPC and NetBSD/macppc put togther. Should we all switch to MacOS then?
2. NetBSD can't read Apple Partition maps. True for the 1.4 release edition, but not true for -current (for the brave), or the upcoming 1.5 release (for the patient).
3. No support for Linux/PPC binaries. True, but only a valid reason if running LinuxPPC binaries is on your list of priorities. It's not a sign of lack of support on NetBSD/macppc's part, but yet another indicator that NetBSD/macppc is still in its infancy. And neither system can run MacOS binaries, so maybe we should all just switch to that?
4. 8-bit XServer - Blah. I don't recall running into this issue, but I'm not a graphics weenie. If you need to run TheGIMP or something like that, then yes, this is an issue.

I tried out both systems on a PowerBook 3400 last year. Both were okay for my purposes, (NetBSD/macppc was marginally superior for me), but trying to get X to cope with one pointer button just ruined the whole experience.

Once I get the hardware straightened out, I'll likely set up a desktop box to dual-boot NetBSD/macppc and Debian/PowerPC until one or the other has all the features I want. Since I lack any MacOS, installing LinuxPPC isn't likely to be worth the effort.

I would like to remind everyone that LinuxPPC, like RedHat, Debian, et. al. is downloadable via the web for free. Check out linuxppc.org and for help, most HOWTO's are accurate. Also there is a LinuxPPC listserv. Also for help try the FAQ OMatic for more info. LinuxPPC 1999 had an installer program that ran after you downloaded it For those of you people who own old PCI Mac's I highly recommend trying it. The TCP performance blows the doors off of OpenTransport 1.3 (MacOS 8.1) on my StarMax. It also lets me use slave IDE devices for bulking up on storage, which MacOS 8.1 does not :). The only sad part is LinuxPPC, like Linux x86 does not support HFS Extended yet, so if you want to save data you have to convert drives back to HFS (unless they updated this for Linux 2000).

I would like to remind everyone that LinuxPPC, like RedHat, Debian, et. al. is downloadable via the web for free. Check out linuxppc.org and for help, most HOWTO's are accurate. Also there is a LinuxPPC listserv. Also for help try the FAQ OMatic for more info. LinuxPPC 1999 had an installer program that ran after you downloaded it For those of you people who own old PCI Mac's I highly recommend trying it. The TCP performance blows the doors off of OpenTransport 1.3 (MacOS 8.1) on my StarMax. It also lets me use slave IDE devices for bulking up on storage, which MacOS 8.1 does not :). The only sad part is LinuxPPC, like Linux x86 does not support HFS Extended yet, so if you want to save data you have to convert drives back to HFS (unless they updated this for Linux 2000).

Actually, unless something has changed recently, RealPlayer hasn't been ported to LinuxPPC.
LinuxPPC.org petitioned Real for a port, they said they would think about it (as of 12/99).

The petition & info can be found here:

http://www.linuxppc.org/real.shmtl

old news

It's ironic that the interview of the man who brought us Linux can't be played on Linux. At least, not on architectures other than the x86. And they do exist!

Ah well. Maybe an mp3 will be available sometime? *cough* :-)

John

very interesting, although not what i would have expected from Apple (although they are "thinking different" with this one). My main problem with the page is that there's almost nothing on it. You would think that they would put more work into it! Here's a short list of what I'd like to see on this page:

• technical information about OpenFirmware
• technical information about the hfs2 file system. there was a lot of hype about it when MacOS 8.5 (?) was released with the new filesystem type--if it's so superior, post some info so the linux geeks can port it.
• An exmplanation of why they couldn't think of their own catchy name rather than (almost) steal LinuxPPC's name.

ben's linux page is a good start--but there needs to be more pages like this one. I'd also like to hear if there is anything soecial that needed to be done to build the kernel he has posted.

darren

At the time, Apple was trying to get itself in gear working on their Copeland project. Copeland originally was supposed to be Mac OS 8, and was supposed to include preemptive multitasking and protected memory, and all those fun little buzzwords. No one especially cared what these couple of guys were doing when everyone was so focused on getting Copeland out the door. As we all know, Copeland got killed. No skin off my back; Copeland was such a bastardized, hacked OS that no one in their right mind would have used it, much less developed for it.

In the meantime, the guys working on MkLinux had decided to base it on the Mach microkernel, figuring that this would make it easy to port it to other systems. They got DR1 and DR2 out the door, and they even worked half-way decently. The installer warned you about five times that you were doing something that could wreck your file system, and they didn't give you any options in terms of what was installed, but damn if it didn't boot up with a linux kernel and run KDE when you typed 'startx'.

After Copeland was killed off, Apple started up the Rhapsody project - the all-new, action-packed, feature-filled, buzzword-compliant OS based on NeXT's technology. NeXT was based on the Mach microkernel. Guess who found themselves reassigned *real* fast once Apple realized they had been playing around with Mach for a couple of years. To my knowledge, Apple has never officially dropped MkLinux.. they just don't have anyone working on it right now. The MkLinux web site is still up at http://www.mklinux.apple.com, and you can still download DR3 from there.

The next sort of PPC-based Linux I have experience with is LinuxPPC. I "inherited" (since no one else wanted it) an IBM PowerPersonal 6015. Very few people have ever heard of this beast. It's one of the original CHRP designs, also known as "Sandalfoot". I spent about $50 getting parts so I could get it to run, and decided to throw LinuxPPC on it since I could get it for free. (My other options were AIX and Windows NT, neither of which I had, and neither of which I could get my hands on quickly) Sadly, this system only ran for a little bit. The power supply isn't especially good. If I felt it were worth it, I'd get a new power supply to put in. It's not though, because there's no way I can install LinuxPPC anymore - the CHRP/PPCP installer program won't fit onto a floppy disk, and CHRP systems are not a support priority for the LinuxPPC guys since their are so few of them (CHRP systems, not LinuxPPC guys).

My next experience with running an Apple-related alternative OS came when I received a copy of the Rhapsody for Intel CD. I tell you, it's unholy starting up an x86 box and seeing a giant Apple logo appearing on your screen. It just felt Wrong.

Anyway, I'm going to stop rambling now. My own personal perspective on the web site mentioned in the article ( http://ppclinux.apple.com) is that it is not official in any capacity. It looks like something that an Apple employee just threw together so s/he could say "Hey, my little web page has links to useful info about running Linux on PPC machines!".

P.S. I don't mean to discredit the LinuxPPC guys above. They've done a lot of hard work and LinuxPPC runs very well on the Apple hardware on which I've tried it. It just didn't work so well for me on the obscure, non-Apple hardware.

I found it odd that they included www.linuxppc.com, the LinuxPPC company website, but not www.linuxppc.org, the ``official home of the Linux/PPC project.'' I found the latter much more useful when installing LinuxPPC, especially when dealing with all of the Open Firmware setup.

-AC

I think the idea was to see how easy it would be to set up a cluster with MacOS (MacOS is known for making things pretty simple.) I thought they were just using straight IP over Ethernet; does anybody use Appletalk anymore? That stuff was damn cool for it's time, but IP is obviously much more flexible. On another note, I'd like to see them make a LinuxPPC Beaowulf out of the same boxes and see how the results compare to doing it under MacOS.

If you want to see the original page, circa November, google still has it cached here. And, it looks like the links on that page still work, so you can go to the credits page and see both the number of successful cracks: 1 in the info box and the additional credit to And Daniel Jacobowitz, because good security isn't always good enough. near the end of the listing.

Apple Macintosh

• Yellow Dog Linux
• MkLinux
• LinuxPPC

• SGI Linux
  
  --Ivan, weenie NT4 user: bite me!

...without using a Microkernel.

Just wanted to point out that MkLinux is a microkernel (the open-source Mach microkernel). But fourtunately the monolithic LinuxPPC runs on most every new Mac. (I don't know about the G4; I haven't checked in a while.)

I will not argue with your later facts about Linux, because they are correct IM(H)O.

Ken

Hi,

I thought you might like to know that Sun is now officially supporting x86 Linux
and didn't bother to inform their porting partners after using their efforts.
There is no planned support for Sparc, PowerPC, arm, alpha, etc.

Needless to say, the Blackdown porting effort is in serious jeopardy.

My efforts for Java on Linux PowerPC will cease unless Sun makes a "*public*"
change asap.

If you use the JDK and want support to continue (at all for powerpc based
machines) you might want to (politely) express your displeasure with Sun.

Thanks,

Kevin

------------- Begin Forwarded Message -------------

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:39:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Kevin_Hendricks
Subject: Sun / Imprise Announcement: A Blackdown Porter's ViewPoint
To: java-linux@java.blackdown.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-MD5: jfrc0hb9tf/kXVy1gfHb0g==

Hi,

I just wanted the list to know that although we (Blackdown) knew Sun was going
to make some release we had no idea it would not even mention the 4 years of
work the Blackdown porters have contributed to this effort.

I truly believe that the Sun / Imprise effort is based on an earlier Blackdown
tree.

If so, why has Sun not even acknowledged the existence of this second tree to
us.

If so, why hasn't Sun given credit to Blackdown where credit is due?

Needless to say the people who have contributed their personal time and effort
to the Blackdown project are *NOT* happy.

I don't mind donating my time and effort to help Java on Linux.

I *do* mind not having that effort recognized especially when it is used as the
basis of a someone else's tree.

Frankly, Sun's conduct here stinks.

Unless Sun makes some public change crediting Blackdown where credit is due in a
prominent place in their announcements / press releases/ web-page, I am finished
as a Blackdown porter and the future of the entire Blackdown project is
seriously at risk (most of us feel this way).

If you have benefited in any way from the efforts of the Blackdown porting group
over the last 4 years, please (politely) express your displeasure at Sun.

Thanks,

Kevin B. Hendricks
(possibly former member of the Blackdown porting group!).

--
Kevin B. Hendricks
Associate Professor of Operations and Information Technology
Richard Ivey School of Business, University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario N6A-3K7 CANADA
khendricks@ivey.uwo.ca, (519) 661-3874, fax: 519-661-3959

As a onetime Mac user (I still have a small MacOS partition on my LinuxPPC box, this strikes me as sad way for Apple to usher in the new year.

While quite different on the whole, parallels can be drawn between Apple's software and the kind we're now used to in the open source world -- the spirit of fun, and healthy pride. Happy as I am to see Apple doing better, and turning out new and interesting hardware, I can't help but think that if this is the new attitude, they've lost something, and are not the same company that I once enthusiastically supported.

Farewell, Secret About Box!

John

Press Release: The new bug will not likely affect your computer, the OS blows so hard you'll never notice.

Some of us hope to run Linux/PPC on our new G4s...

For info/instructions: www.linuxppc.org/userguide/of.html.

Egh. Sorry about the busted link.

Try www.linuxppc.org/powerpcfaq/.

OK, since the army of wild ants or whatever won't post news of the PowerPC FAQ, I'll do it here, which seems the most appropriate place to do it.

Visit LinuxPPC.org to take a gander at the latest revision of the PowerPC FAQ.

It's my personal project, and I'm (slowly) trying to make it more accurate and timely (as it was previously maintained by someone else who quit).

Since the industry seems to be interested in having a second affair with the IBM's pseudo-RISC architecture, I hope the FAQ will serve as a good intoduction to the world of PowerPC.

Comments on it to davenport@access-k12.org.

Thanks :)

Yes. Check out LinuxPPC for information on that. They just recently got it to work on the iMac, and they've had it working on the G3s for a while. The new G4s are a different story. The low-end 400MHz uses the same mobo as the G3, so it is said to work on that one. However, it is yet to be seen if it runs on the new 'sawtooth' mobos. YellowDog may also be working on this, but their site isn't quite as documented.

Did you even attempt to read the manual? Take a look at http://www.linuxppc.org/userguide/of.html.

You think so? Sorry for belaboring the cracking contest again, but visit crack.linuxppc.org and www.windows2000test.com (if the latter is up at the moment) and tell me which you'd rather have running your e-commerce site.

Windows 2000 may no longer be readily crackable, but that's not much help if you can't keep the darn thing running. (sigh)

Found on the LinuxPPC Challenge Guestbook

ClickMe! ClickMe! ClickMe! Click wrote: Lame Javascript-Filter...

While trying to retrieve the URL: http://crack.linuxppc.org/guestboo k/status.shtml

The following error was encountered:

• Zero Sized Reply

Squid did not receive any data for this request.

Remove all my gardening links (cuz I could use that information to grow the "stuff", plus it might contain the words 'growing' and 'pot').

Take down any link which may contain references to hydroponics and wide-spectrum lighting (cuz I might use that information also for growing "stuff").

I'd also have to remove the link to Crack.LinuxPPC.Org

Could I leave the link to a page entitled "Methamphetamine - for fun and profit"?

...who would have thunk?

This is morbidly cool

screenshot

You said you "love to develop using M$". So...did you use FrontPage for your post here? =) Nice <hr>'s and Italics.

Oh...nice mud-slinging yourself there...The comment about hackers and inflated women. My wife wouldn't appreciate that! Nor would yours (or girlfriend or whoever).

And yeah...I hope others do the same. Then maybe the public could see who makes a decent product...but still not likely.

http://crack.linuxppc.org/

Quick note: LinuxPPC also runs on PPC based RS/6000 machines. Check this.

Quick note: LinuxPPC also runs on PPC based RS/6000 machines. Check this.

Its not as nice as CygWin, but check out MacMiNT at ftp://ftp.linuxppc.org /users/harry/MacMiNT_PowerPC_Cross.bin. At least some basic support for shell scripting, makefiles, gcc, etc... Andrew Beyer

Money + Americans = Stupidity.

Take note of our hypocritical society

___________________
Buy (I mean download) linux today!
___________________
Learn something!

Is it Motorola or IBM? I always thought it was Motorola, but anytime I see PowerPC used, there's always a disclaimer about "PowerPC is a registered trademark of International Business Machines" (look at the bottom of LinuxPPC's home page, for example).

Does Motorola just manufacture the chip that IBM designs?

I never hear anything about Motorola. With the speed of the G3/G4, and with AltiVec too, I would think more people would be talking about them... but I never hear anything. I remember seeing ads for their "DigitalDNA" a couple of months ago, but that's about it.

Why don't we ever hear anything from them?

Well, my Powerbook 3400 does. As a point of fact, it runs LinuxPPC better than it runs MacOS.

I've given up on trying to keep MacOS going on my Powerbook and have moved what little of it I use off to a few Zip disks and CDs.

--

I shall ignore the second part of your story because it is absurd. As other posters have noted, you should have examined the package before accepting it; the shipping company is liable for damages that occured in transit.

In the first part of your story you mentioned the flames over the unintended characters most of us see when you post stories you composed with MS Word. You do not need to "learn Linux" in order to remedy that. You only need to learn basic HTML and compose your posts using it. There are numerous 10 minute HTML tutorials on the Web to which you can turn. Download BBEdit Lite 4.1 an excellent freeware (i.e. gratis, but no source code provided) editor for the Mac; use it instead of MS Word.

You are on the Web. The Web came about precisely because of the myriad of incompatible document formats and the difficulty in retrieving them that Tim Berners-Lee found at CERN. If you are unwilling to learn even the slightest bit about the tools of this environment, then go back to the print world and take the rest of the clueless, sycophantic journalists with you.

How can you be so damn ignorant? no...wait I already have the answers:

1. As you have admitted, you have been a Mac user for 10 years;
2. You are a writer/journalist.

'Nuff said.

P.S. If you have a Mac, then why the bloody !@#$ are you not installing LinuxPPC?!!